Shifting Perspectives - Biblical Conversations about Topics that Matter - Episode 20

Welcome to Shifting Perspectives,

biblical conversations about topics that

matter. Let's get to

it. Hey everybody, welcome back. and

we've been in an exciting conversation

um that I love because it came from a

question because ultimately at the end

of the day that's why we're doing this

because people have questions that they

may not necessarily know how to get the

answers from and sometimes I think

people think I can't ask that question

cuz I might look stupid. Um that's a

question that maybe everybody already

knows but me. Um and and maybe this is

one of those maybe, you know, um I

should already know this and if I ask

this to someone who belongs to, you

know, the Southern Baptist Church or the

Methodist Church or that they may just

assume that that I should already know

this. Um and so, um this is a safe space

to be able to ask some questions and get

some some theological guidance and some

doctrinal guidance about what the Bible

actually says about these things. And so

last week we really talked about

orthodoxy. Um, and in a narrow sense,

Scott, what are what are kind of those

things that that really make us

orthodox? Well, I mean, we talked about

a little bit last week was, you know,

it's I I invented it to, you know, the

screening process as you see a lot of

times. You know, if you're screening

gravel, you have the big screens and you

get a smaller screen and you get a

smaller screen. So the first screen is

is you know Jesus Christ and and as we

described it last week you know Jesus

Christ the the conception the birth

death resurre resurrection u

justification physical return to earth

those things as the key component that's

really the first screen you're going to

look for right um you know provided that

you believe that the that the Bible is

the the true source of truth that we

have inspired by God written by through

man and you know, if that's where if

that's where you land, then you the

first thing is those are the key

components, right? Uh you know, the

perfection of God, the perfection of the

word and uh so whenever you imagine

putting some rocks and sand in a screen,

that's really where the first set of

rocks rolls off. It says, "Okay, these

beliefs, these denominations, these

religions roll off of that because they

don't believe that." So, um you screen

that out and really we've got three

screens that we're talking about. So,

today is screen number two, right?

uh you know which is the second tier

stuff that we're going to talk about.

Yeah. Absolutely. And so when you begin

to talk about and move from orthodoxy um

into what we would call practice

um these are things of doctrine that um

help us focus on um on who we're

supposed to be um is is a great way to

say it. And it doesn't necessarily

include all of those things. Um, but

these are the things that caused us to

have um different denominations and they

caused us to have um local church

autonomy and maybe different local

churches that believe different things,

but we're all Christians. So, you'll

hear us say things like u big C church,

little C church, big C church, uh the

body of Christ at large is all of us,

right? We're all if we fall under that

orthodoxy, we're all brothers and

sisters in Christ. Yes. That's great.

Sometimes I liken it to say um you know

that that

um I've got family that lives out of

town. I don't know if you've got family

that lives out of town and and we don't

necessarily see each other all as often

as we would like, but we do see each

other and when we when we see each

other, we still celebrate together as

family, right? Um right. And so so you

can kind of think of it in terms like

that. your your local your little C your

local C church is really that family

that you're right here with that you're

really worshiping with together and and

they do this do things kind of the same

way that you do and they and they have

the same list of

practices that you have. Um and so we

begin to have some of these second tier

issues um that help us flesh out how we

want to worship and and kind of how and

really it is how we interpret how we

interpret scripture um in into whether

or not these are things that um that

don't divide us from the body of Christ

but may divide us from unity inside of a

local congregation. Yeah. And that's

where, you know, we you have to be

careful um you know, as you're getting

into this, you know, when you're looking

within the the different denominations

underneath the what we call the New

Testament church, the with the orth

orthodoxy that we're talking about, you

know, because someone doesn't believe

the same doesn't mean that, you know, if

you're if you're testifying Jesus

Christ, him crucified, those things that

we talked about, you know, the enemy,

Satan likes to divide people along the

lines of a title. I am this

denomination. I am this denomin. You

know, even within the Bible, I'm

Southern Baptist. I'm independent

Baptist. I'm whatever Baptist

fundamental general general American. I

mean, you've got all these different

different ones. And you know, you got to

be careful. You know, if if Jesus Christ

is a sinner, then the rest of that stuff

becomes not unimportant, but it becomes

interpretations and, you know, the walk

that you have. So, the enemy likes to

divide over the littlest of lines,

right? And that's where you got to be

careful of, you know, as you're

exploring this. If you're looking at

denominations, then the enemy is looking

to to try to to um u to divide the

church over that. And that's what's it's

it's a big point of caution, but it's

one of his main tool to try to break up

the big seed body of Christ. Yeah. And

we really see that there's a lot of

contention over second tier issues um

that really shouldn't be. And one of the

things in the Southern Baptist churches

and the reasons why um reasons why we

are the way that we are is the autonomy

of the local church um that allows us to

partner together with other Southern

Baptist churches that may not

necessarily agree with all of these

particular areas, but if they if if we

align in the ones that matter most. And

so we might take what one church

considers second tier issues and we

might consider them a first tier issue

when it comes to what we will believe.

Um, and so we have some of these second

tier issues. Um, and so I mean I can

give you some examples that that are

reasons why we have denominations. Um,

here's one. Um, infant baptism versus

believers baptism or confessional

baptism. Um, Southern Baptists believe

in believers baptism and we baptize on

the confession of faith according to

what we interpret scripture to. And

there are others that will will baptize

um you know infants and maybe they won't

baptize by immersion. Maybe they baptize

by sprinkling. And we love our brothers

and sisters who believe that way, but

that's not what we necessarily see in

scripture. That is what they see in

scripture. And so we would not be a part

of the same church because, you know, we

don't baptize infants. Um we baptize by

believers baptism. But but I mean I've

got some great friends and they love

Jesus and they are completely orthodox

in orthodoxy that we walk together in

but they are a different denomination

and ultimately a different local church

because they have that particular area.

And so um in many

instances many of these we would say are

very very close um and we would never

not be unified with them as brothers and

sisters in Christ. We just see the

practice of scripture a little

different. And we might even say there's

another one. Um, how often should you

take the Lord's supper?

Great question. I mean, we have, again,

second tier issue. We have denominations

that take the Lord's supper weekly. We

have ones that take it monthly. We have

some that take it quarterly. We have

some that take it semianual or annually.

We have some that only take communion on

special occasions. Does that define

orthodoxy? I would say no. Not not

according to scripture. So, so we

worship with them. We love them. They're

a part of the body of Christ. But

because we have a particular um set of

what we believe, um maybe we could say

um ordinances. Lord's supper is one of

those ordinances. How often do you come

to the table would be defined by your

church's interpretation, but Lord's

supper is an ordinance that all

believers should partake in. Right.

Right. uh believers baptism. That's an

ordinance, right? But here's one of

those interesting ones. Um so we're

Southern Baptist and we believe two

ordinances, the Lord's table and

baptism. But there's another group that

has Baptist in their name and that's

free will Baptist. And free will

Baptists believe that there's three

ordinances and that one of those is is

baptism. One of those is Lord's supper

and the other is feet washing. And they

celebrate feet washing as an ordinance

participated in the local church. That's

a that's what we would call second tier

issue. We're not going to divide

disunityity over whether or not feet

washing should or shouldn't be an

ordinance, but we will narrow into what

we believe as is an ordinance. And there

are some other ones. I mean, we could

make a laundry list of what are what are

second tier issues. And here's what's

important.

Um, these are not issues that divide us

from the body of Christ. And don't do

not say that we would not um uh

participate together jointly in

activities or things. Um they are the

things that give the

freedom to have um interpretation of

scripture in an area that is um not that

top tier priority. Again, you're not

bleeding to death. You know, I talked a

couple weeks ago on Sunday morning about

um what defines life. And you know, we

say air going in and out and blood going

round and round, you're alive, right?

These are not things that are not air

going in and out and not blood going

round and round, right? Um but they are

things that that help us kind of define

who we are and what we h how we see

scripture. Um and so here's what's

important. Um besides the the whole idea

that we're big C church um in some of

these areas um there's some pretty

strong opinions about about how much

they how much they matter. Mhm. Um and

so to sit here and pick them apart and

and say, you know, hey, this is one

second tier issue that that for us as a

local Baptist church, we might say,

well, that's, you know, that's kind of

really a first tier issue for for this

local church that that you're probably

not going to want to worship with us if

you believe something different than

that.

um that helps churches really begin to

un understand where they stand. And you

know, just a couple of weeks ago, you

you you mentioned that in your Bible,

you've got some notes that have been

scratched out o over time and that

you're not necessarily 100% and and you

know, I'm not necessarily 100% on all of

the interpretations that I have in the

Bible. And that's why this category

exists. Exactly. because it's not going

to separate us, but it's going to allow

us as the Holy Spirit leads us and as we

study scripture, which is why you go

back to those studying videos so that we

can we can flesh some things out.

Exactly. You know, and whenever you find

those differences, I mean, whenever

you're studying scripture and you find

the differences with somebody, you

really got two choices. You can argue

about them, be divided, and let that be

a source of

disunityity, or as the scriptures did,

after they used to, they would debate

the scriptures. They would sit down and

say, "Okay, well, let me see where

you're coming from now. Here's where I'm

coming from." And they would sit around.

And by the way, whenever they all walked

together, even if they didn't agree,

they were in a sense of unity, still

keeping Christ at the center of it and

saying, "Okay, I understand either where

you're coming from or I, you know, now I

see where you're saying. I need to

explore that further and deeper." But

then that gets you more gets you, me, I,

us deeper into scriptural study where we

become smarter and smart. We don't study

to prove oursel right and someone else

wrong. We we study to prove what the

scripture says. Absolutely. And and

those things are important. And let me

add one more caveat because you know in

the categories of

people, you know, let's let's take the

first, second, third tier in the

attitudes of people, we kind of take two

positions. We're either separatists in

that whether it's a first tier, second

tier, or third tier issue, they're all

first tier issues. And we can't walk

together unless you agree with me on

every one of these things. And that's

the wrong place to be. That's the wrong

place to be. And the other is what we

call a minimalist. So we have

separatists where it's my, you know,

it's my way or the highway. I mean,

that's all there is to it. But the

minimalist is well, you know, that's it.

It doesn't really matter. We, you know,

we're all going to the same place. And

that's not the right place either. No.

And in the middle of that, we contend

for the faith. That's what Jude said in

Jude chapter 1, that we would contend

Jude 1 · chapter mention

for the faith uh once for all delivered

to the saints. that we would that we

would wrestle with, that we would debate

scripture. And you know, we're we're

kind of in this day and age, we fall

into one of those two camps and we're

not willing to talk about it. Yeah. Um

what's the thing that they say about

Thanksgiving Thanksgiving dinner? You

don't talk about football, you don't

talk about politics, and you don't talk

about religion. Yeah. And we need to

talk about religion because, you know,

Proverbs 27, it says, "As iron sharpens

iron, so one man sharpens the

countenance of his friend. When we talk

about the scriptures together and we

have spiritual conversations, we grow

very much so. And so these are great

things to not argue about but

have

distinctives that you can talk about and

flesh out.

Yeah. So, a lot of information there.

Um, you know, and we'll we'll dig in

next week into the third screen. um you

know, as we continue to flush all of

this out and see what and see what

bounces down through there. So, uh come

back and join us uh next week. Um like,

follow, share this video. Um if there's

somebody that's got questions about or

you're looking for a good way to to open

a conversation with someone that you may

have some of these discussions with,

please use this um give us a comment. Um

if you will, send us a question that

you've got. We'll be happy to look at it

and get back to you. Have a great week.

Bye-bye.