Shifting Perspectives - Biblical Conversations about Topics that Matter - Episode 34

Welcome to Shifting Perspectives,

biblical conversations about topics that

matter. Let's get to it.

Hey everybody, welcome back to Shifting

Perspectives. And you know this last

week I one of the things that I follow

is I follow Lifeway Research which

Lifeway is the publication and research

arm of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Um and they do a lot of statistical

research on the church on particular

cultural trends in the church and even

in America kind of like Pew or or even

Barner Research does. But this last week

they published their uh annual state of

theology in America. So, not just focus

on the church, but what are the what are

the theological underpinnings of

America? And it really gives us a good

idea or a good picture of what people

are thinking out there in the streets.

>> Um, which is exactly why we do this,

right? We can have conversations with

people about the things that they're

thinking about. Um, and so I really

think that it would be a good idea for

us to kind of unpack some of these

ideas,

>> you know, and that's that's the thing

and and you said it the best is these

type of of views are exactly why

shifting perspectives exist is to shift

the perspective into what we think

because this is what culture says or

this is what someone says back to the

perspective of this is God's word. this

is how it's designed and this is the

perfect way to travel forward. So,

absolutely I'm excited to dig into the

into these topics.

>> So, so this very first thing is they

asked this question and and you know

this one's really good, right? Um how

many people in America or the ones that

are surveyed believe in a triune God?

And and so just for people to kind of

understand what that is, what what do we

mean by when we say a triune God?

>> Yeah. So, you're talking about the the

one Godhead in three parts. The father,

the son, and the holy spirit. Exactly.

So those are distinct in the Bible,

right? We see the father at work. We see

the son at work, and we see the spirit

at work. But we're not polytheistic,

meaning many gods. So we don't think of

God in terms of here's God the Father,

and that's one God over here, and here's

God the Son, and Jesus. That's one God

over here, and here's the Holy Spirit,

and that's another God over here. But

rather, those are those are one in three

persons, three three identities. And you

know, it's interesting to me that 71%

of Americans, not just Christians, and

that's what's great about this is

they're not they're not polling

Christians, they're polling Americans.

So So here in America, 71% believe that

there is one true God that's in three

persons.

But here's the the flaw in most people's

thinking.

>> Um, and that's we have a really good

understanding or a good concept of God

the Father. We can see that. We

certainly have a really good

understanding of God the Son and Jesus

Christ and and what he has done in in

our lives and for our lives, especially

in the gospels. But then you start

asking this question about the Holy

Spirit.

>> Um and we get kind of off the rails on

that. What what is the Holy Spirit? Is

the Holy Spirit a person? Is the Holy

Spirit a force? And and you know, the

statistics proved out that 57% so over

half believe that the Holy Spirit is a

force. Now, I've heard people say it's

like the force in Star Wars. I don't

know if you're a sci-fi person, but but

you know, the the that the Holy Spirit

is is akin to the Force that we see in

Star Wars. Um, I've heard people

reference the Holy Spirit like a genie

in a bottle.

>> Um, and we marginalize kind of those

things and and don't really understand

them. But yet, the Bible actually is

really clear about the Holy Spirit.

>> Um, and he's not a he's not a force,

right? I mean,

>> you know, and and you go back to again,

what do we do is we go back to the

scriptures. I mean, that's one of the

things that I love that we do, you know,

and Jesus laid this out very clearly

that that he and the father are one.

>> Um, at his ascension, I must leave so

that the comforter may come,

>> right?

>> So, we get that and and at other places

throughout scripture, we get the picture

of Jesus Christ himself leaning into the

fact that they are one, but they are

distinct. And, you know, it's okay. I

understand God. Unless you said, I

understand Jesus. But we get into, you

know, you talk about a Holy Spirit and

just because it's got the word spirit. I

mean, you know, Jesus uses the word

comforter.

>> Mhm.

>> And you know, if we call it the

comforter, we we have a little better

understanding or ability to talk about

it

>> because we're not talking about a force.

We're not talking about some inordinate

thing that that, you know, only gets

seen under a certain light or whatever

like they try to show it to you. The

Holy Spirit indwells us. That's right.

It is the comforter. Um, scripture does

a very good job of setting apart the

seven spirits of God. Um, you know, read

in Revelation, reading some of the other

text of of that and how we as Christians

today should be embracing

the Holy Spirit, the comforter, however

you want to lay that out, is that it is

part of God. It is a trinity. It you can

grieve the Holy Spirit.

>> That's right. You can.

>> It has feelings.

>> That's right. And you're going to

correct me, I know, because of what I

just said.

>> That's right.

Because the Holy Spirit is not an it.

>> Exactly.

>> Um, and that's where a lot of that

confusion comes in is, is the Holy

Spirit a force? Is it an it? Is it a

person? And when you start talking about

those things, um, they're actually

characteristics of of personhood, right?

You can't grieve a force, but you can a

person.

>> Exactly. Um, you can't have a will of a

force, but you can of a person. Um, and

and it's a distinct personal identity.

And one of the great passages that we

that we use to describe the Trinity, but

also describes this real personhood of

the Holy Spirit is 2 Corinthians 13:14.

2 Corinthians 13:14

um in that it's kind of a kind of a

closing thought that Paul is given and

he's talking to the Corinthian church

and he says, "May the grace of the Lord

Jesus Christ and the love of God and the

fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with

you." So he lists out all parts. He's

basically saying, "I want you to I want

you to be able to walk in all of these

parts, but here let me give you a little

bit of an of an understanding." And he

uses this Greek word when he says the

fellowship of the Holy Spirit. And

that's this this word coinia. And I

won't won't get too nerdy out, but but

can I just tell you that it's a term

that cannot be used outside of a

relational context. And why is that

important? Because coinia is used to

describe the relationship that we get to

have with the son because of the

sacrifice he's given and the

relationship we get to have with the

father through adoption. And yet we also

get to have this relationship with the

holy spirit. Um, and similarly other

places in scripture it's used, it's used

to describe the relationship that you

and I get to have and the relationship

that the body of Christ gets to have.

And those are all personal

relational traits. You can't be a force

and have relationship, but you can be a

person and have relationship. And

ultimately, at the end of the day,

that's really what what the Lord wants

for us is he wants for us to be able to

experience the fullness of the Godhead

relationally in our lives. Mhm.

>> Um, and so I think I think 57%

thinking that the Holy Spirit is a force

maybe because we kind of shy away from

talking about the Holy Spirit a little

bit um, and probably should talk about

it a little bit more. And if you're

interested to know um, more about the

personhood and his work on the earth,

read John 14:15 and 16. In all three of

John 14:15

those chapters, Jesus himself is talking

about this comforter that you just

described, the Holy Spirit, and the

things that he does in our lives that

are relational, guide you, teach you,

lead you, uh bring things to your

remembrance, bring comfort to your

heart, all these different

characteristics that are personhood

characteristics.

>> Um and so with that, let's talk about

another one. Um,

you know, this this this statistic says

that while there are 71% that agree that

God is three persons, God the Father,

God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit,

but yet when you ask the question about

Jesus,

49%

said that Jesus is a great teacher, but

not God. So I I mean again I think

there's there's there's some some

confusion in that sometimes just by what

we've been taught or what we've heard or

ultimately what the culture says. Um I

know about uh 6 months ago we did a we

did a series here at the church and and

one of the questions or one of the one

of the videos that we went through was

who is Jesus? Um and there were

countless people these were interviews

on the street and there were countless

people that said you know he's a great

teacher he was a great man but he but

he's not God. And so, so how do we help

people understand and get that number up

from 50% that Jesus really is God?

>> Well, you said you said it best and and

the statistics contradict themselves and

that the father, the son, and the holy

spirit. 71 believe that, but only a much

smaller percentage believe that Jesus is

God.

>> Right. So, we lost 21% somewhere in the

middle of that.

>> Exactly. So, there's there's disparity

there. And I think it comes back to the

one of the one of the challenges that we

have is truly accepting Jesus in his

ministry on earth as the the incarnate

of the the physical son of God. And we

are we look at man and every man that

has and by man man, woman, child that

has walked the face of the earth is

imperfect.

>> Right.

>> Except one.

>> That's right.

>> So it becomes easy to say, well that one

couldn't be perfect either because we

can't imagine. We can't imagine I can't

imagine walking this earth in a perfect

format to look at somebody that does me

wrong with the love and compassion of

Jesus Christ,

>> right?

>> You know, whenever somebody cuts me off

in traffic and and looking at them and

and extending the grace of God instead

of, you know, wanting to lose my temper

a little bit. We are used to that. So, I

think sometimes it's easier for us to

take our personal feelings and say, "If

I can't do it, then neither can Jesus."

Mhm.

>> Not realizing and and not that

understanding of I understand this Jesus

is the son of God when I say Jesus,

>> but the Jesus that walked was a

different Jesus.

>> Right.

>> I think sometimes we try to we try to

pull those two apart, which is that

21%is.

Anybody that's living in this world

can't be perfect. The world's just too

evil.

>> Right. That's right.

>> And not realizing the godhead that he is

and

is and always will be.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so you know when you

when you even think about that you know

all through the gospels of gospels of

John or I say the gospels sorry all

through the gospel of John um Jesus used

these what we call in in the Greek it's

called the arrow eme statements which

basically is the I am statements. Jesus

repeatedly over and over and over again

about himself described himself in the

same manner with the same language that

God used whenever he spoke to Moses and

Moses said well who do I tell them sent

me and God said tell them I am sent you

and then Jesus reiterated that which

they all called blasphemy right how dare

you how dare you claim to be God so

Jesus in himself claimed to be God

>> and then went to the cross and died for

our sins and then proved proved his

deity, proved that he was God through

the resurrection, through 40 days

walking on earth, resurrected alive, and

then being ascended to to the right hand

of the father. And so, so not only is

his personal testimony proof that he was

God, but also the witness of his events,

his death, burial, and resurrection, and

that time that was spent on the earth

proved that he was God. And then his

work at the right hand of the father as

a mediator, as an intercessor on our

behalf, also proves that he's God.

>> Yeah. You know, we got into that in in

the youth class not too long ago, you

know, and because you know, um, one of

the things about about youth is is they

will ask questions.

>> Yeah.

>> And I love the fact that you get to sit

down, you get to ask and answer

questions, and you get to research

together. But that 40 days that he was

on the earth post resurrection, you

talked about it. That proved that he is

God because you know he he bore the

scars, he bore the marks, he bore the

the the images of of the crucifixion.

But here's the interesting thing. This

is what I try to teach the youth. People

today in, you know, in in 2000 and and

and since they say, "Well, maybe Jesus

really didn't die on the cross. Maybe

that really didn't happen. Let's let's

cast doubt on the whole resurrection,

crucifixion, resurrection. But you know

where doubt wasn't Christ wasn't cast on

that the fact that Christ resurrected.

It was at the point right after the

cross,

>> right?

>> Because the people that saw him hang

there also saw him walk around

>> alive. Yep. That's right.

>> And walk around alive bearing the scars.

>> And that's one of the things that I

think is is interesting. It's easier to

say 2,000 years later, well, maybe that

didn't happen. But the people that

didn't doubt that it happened were the

ones that were there firsthand witness

testimony, which is always more

elaborate than third, fourth, fifth,

10th hand, which is where we're at now.

Witness testimony.

>> That's right. You know, 1 Corinthians 15

tells us that there were 500

>> who saw Jesus during that 40-day period

and were and sat underneath his

teaching. But then you begin to talk

about, you know, from an apologetic

standpoint of um, you know, proving

truth. That first hundred years after

Christ died, there were multiple

accounts of witnesses that were not

Christians.

>> We have testimonies from those who are

not believers who testify that Jesus was

alive.

>> Yes.

>> And so, you can't be dead and then alive

without the being divine. I mean, you

just can't.

>> You can't.

>> And so, so with that, we're going to

we're going to dial into some more of

these over the next few weeks. But with

that, let's go ahead and wrap this one

up. Do me a favor though. If you've got

questions about either any of these

things that we've talked about today,

some of these are difficult topics. I

mean, how do we wrap our heads around a

triune God, one God in three persons,

how how do we get there? We'd love to

talk with you about that. Um, you want

to know more about the Holy Spirit? We'd

love to share what the Lord has showed

us over the years of of life and what

his scripture says. You have questions

about Jesus really being God, we'd love

to walk you through how to know that

Jesus really is God. Um,

>> yeah, and like he said, you know, um,

reach out to us. We're here, this is

this is the ministry. This is the

ministry of of the church. We're here to

answer questions, not on opinion, but

answer questions on good, strong,

biblical foundation and facts. So, um,

if you got questions, if you're curious,

let us know. Um, you know, if you got

people around you that may be curious,

share this video with them. Let them

know where you're you're finding a great

source of some of the more interesting

topics and discussions around as we

continue through uh, this survey. We'll

see you next week. Have a good week.