John: In Conclusion

Hey, everybody.

Thanks for joining us on our last day with the Gospel of John in this study,

grateful that you've been listening or that you continue to listen.

We will be taking from here.

We'll be taking the summer off, will be coming back in the fall

to start a new book.

If you have some thoughts on what you'd like to see as that focus.

Please let us know.

We'd be glad to have some guidance for that as we move through today, though,

we finished the text of the Gospel of John,

and so we thought we'd just, reflect for a few moments on the

the place of the Gospel of John.

I think, as you would know

from the study, John is a bit of an outlier.

There are four Gospels we call three of them

synoptic, which literally means they look alike.

And John is kind of the odd one out.

John is the most different from the other three.

The most unique of the four Gospels that we have.

The chronology in John is different, the style is different.

The major stories,

are often

unique to John, at least some of them.

It's not that John tells a different story,

but it is that John tells the story differently and

I don't know, Michael, I you or,

you're a fan of the Gospel of John and

I suspect that that is true for a lot of people,

because John is a different voice, a different take.

I think that that makes this book appealing to people.

John offers us some unique material.

Also, the way John writes means some of the obviously John 316

and the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery.

Some of the some of the I don't want to call them sound bites,

but some of the takeaways from this gospel really work

their way into the collective favorites in the Christian church.

And I think people maybe are surprised how much of what they know

of the gospel story might be filtered through John, in many cases.

So let's talk about that for just a second.

I do think

that if you're

going to be making a recommendation to someone who's maybe not read

one of the gospels before that, they're going

to have their first encounter with the Jesus story.

I, I don't think that you make the recommendation to read John.

I've heard that done.

And I think the argument behind

that is that, you know, John presents

these characters and that these characters may be relatable.

And I could see that.

I think the reason I would argue against this is the first gospel that you read

is because there's a way in which John is less interested in telling

the core stories of Jesus in the order in which they lead him to Jerusalem.

And instead, I think John is more interested in a thoroughgoing.

I would even use the word theological project

to show that Jesus was, from the start, the very thing

he was on the cross, the very thing he is on the other side of the cross.

John has a way of teaching in a way that I don't know

that the other gospel writers do.

In the same way, I want to be clear, there's teaching in all the Gospels.

They're all giving a lens of Jesus Christ, of who he was, of

of how that changes our life. Absolutely.

But I think of John as the master teacher and that he's going to tell you

the stories.

But as you've seen in the length of this study,

there are always theology layers underneath those stories.

There's always more revelation than just what Jesus said.

You have to learn what Jesus said.

But then there's also the thing beneath what Jesus said.

And then there was the thing Jesus was doing while he said what he said.

And then there's the response of the people who misunderstood what Jesus said. John

has a kind of unflinching

look at the revelation of Jesus Christ in all of its senses.

And so if you're a person that likes complexity and nuance and shades,

and you're kind of person that enjoys getting into something and finding it's

much deeper than what you anticipated, this is a great book for you.

This is a wonderful introduction to the life of Jesus Christ,

and why it is that Christians believe that he is who he said he was.

I just want to be clear.

I don't think that this is the shallow end of the pool, that

that's not in any way saying another gospel is shallow.

It's just to say John has more depth than what you're ever going

to find in your study of it.

And I think that makes it a uniquely compelling addition to the Jesus Gospels.

Yeah, I think

maybe the way I would spend that, Michael, is to say John is a

is a fascinating book to study.

In some ways, it's a more challenging book to read

because it does depart from

that, that sort of

collective story of the other three gospels

that tend to mirror each other much more closely.

And this is,

this is a nonsensical statement, but I'll try to unpack it.

I think in many ways, John

feels like the

treatment of Jesus that is most reflective of the person who's writing it.

In other words, I do think there's a sense in which Luke

Matthew maybe certainly Mark is

are presenting information in the idea that it's the historical look.

It's it's it's what they think happened.

Matthew is going to filter that through the idea of prophecy,

and all works are reflective of their author's.

But but John is so deeply embedded

in his story, in his telling.

I think there are moments it's hard to separate John from the story itself.

And again, you could make that case of any writing and its author.

But I think some of the things

that make John fascinating also make John not.

I would agree, not the best place to start.

We don't have our confirmation kids, for instance,

start with the Gospel of John because you need to know where

John's doing something different so you can ask questions of why.

And if you don't have a sense of the what is.

Maybe the

I don't want to call it the standard, but the more common approach,

you're not going to know when you've wandered from the path

a little bit, and you're not going to know when to ask the questions of

why does John do this instead of this?

And therefore I just think

there's a reason that even

the arrangers of the book put those three together.

And then John came next.

And that's not to undermine John or or devalue John's importance.

It's just I, I think I would 100% agree.

It's just not it's not the place to start.

There's too much other stuff you need to know in order to filter

what John is doing and what's happening in the book.

And so, yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's a good intro.

Having said that,

I will say that I've been reminded as we've gone through John this time

how deeply embedded we are, how deeply indebted

we are to the things that John has embedded in this gospel,

that there's no gospel that's stronger on Trinity,

that's stronger on the incarnation, that's stronger

on the divinity of Christ than the I am statements.

Much of what we understand

of the sort of nature of Jesus questions.

We take our theological cues from the Gospel of John

in a way that I think is much more upfront and apparent than those other gospels.

Maybe that's because John is later.

Maybe that's just because those are the things John found important.

But, we get a lot of crucial Jesus ideas from this gospel.

And I think that's been apparent to me this time through.

So obviously, if you've made it this far into this conversation, you know,

as a concluding work here in this conversation, this is a lot of

what Clint and I think this isn't we're not digging into the text.

Right.

And so I think in the full disclosure interest of what Michael thinks,

and I'm curious what you would say to this, Clint, in a way,

I think John, on its face is the kind of book

where we have so much theological content, per your previous point.

I would also add, though, I think one of the reasons that I love

John so much is because I think it is also the most directive of all the Gospels.

It has in it this idea of witness from start to end,

which is just an explicit throughline that John, the writer, wants

the reader to know, that this is all serving

the purpose of you, recognizing your task and role as a testifier.

Just as you receive these as testimony, you have that

in, in, say, like the book of Mark, I think the ending of Mark leaves

you with the question of so then what will you do? Right?

If the disciples were afraid and yet you've received

this gospel now, what is your response to it?

I think that's an amazing narrative kind of move that that puts us into

the the driver's seat of the faith in our own life.

But Clint John starts with this idea of witness and testimony.

John embeds it at every level.

All of these questions of it subtly come back to the reader.

I just think, yes,

it is deep and there's lots of metaphor and allegory and and theology

and also, I do think that this book is amazingly practical in other ways,

in the ways that it calls Christians to live out their faith in evangelistic.

If you're going to let me use that word from the sense of of the speaking

and living faith aspect, that this book expects Christians

to give voice and testimony to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

And I think that is so explicit in the book.

I think it is one of the things that I most appreciate about the book.

Yeah, I, I turn it,

I don't want to I don't want to push this too far.

Overstate it, Michael, but I'm just kind of sitting here thinking,

who is the Gospel of John for?

Or if you dig into the Gospel of John, what do you miss from the other books?

And I, I think if

if you want a just glaring spotlight

on the person of Jesus, if you want.

A reflection of that,

that commitment that Jesus has that is unwavering, that never ask

questions, that is never in doubt, that has no weakness.

Right?

That John, he makes a whip early in the book and he drives out

the money changers and he's sort of bigger than life in this book.

And he knows what people are thinking and nobody and

and and yes, that's in other gospels,

but it's tempered with my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

And being tempted and being hungry

and things like that, where, John, I think,

minimizes to some extent

any idea of human weakness?

I won't say Jesus humanity, but certainly I would say that

he is not interested in in any particular exploration of, of Jesus's

weakness as a human or shortcomings

in terms of having a body and, and feeling

pain and, and those sort of things.

So if you

if you need a season of nothing will stop.

Jesus.

No one can stand against Jesus then.

John, is John is your book.

There's a that's nearly every page of this.

Although, fascinatingly enough,

this is the one gospel in which Jesus sheds tears.

So. Right.

You do have some, maybe some wiggle room in that,

although I'm not exactly sure that that's what John has in mind,

but I, I think that there's a certain

almost heroic nature

of Jesus in the Gospel of John that is very compelling,

but maybe

in some ways makes Jesus a little more difficult to relate to

as quote unquote, one of us agreed.

I think that in all the other gospels,

there are places where there are temptations.

As a reader, I think Matthew, some of Jesus's,

very strong language

against the Jewish leadership, that, you know,

there are places where you could dig in in every gospel that might lead you

farther away from the center of that, the telling of Jesus's story.

I think John is a gospel.

Among all, for that is playing with fire.

I think that

history shows, actually, if you read through

the historical commentaries of theologians and scholars reading John, John, I think

has a disproportionate amount of

invective arguments against Judaism as a whole.

People have read Jesus's debates with the Jewish leadership and have taken

that as far as anti Semitic talk, I mean, that has happened in history.

I do think that's a danger of of the way that John has been read

over the course of history.

And I think as we've demonstrated

through our attempt to read it, it doesn't have to, but it certainly has.

And I think another danger of this gospel, if we're not

careful, is the fact that Jesus, in this book,

does consistently bring a kind of theological

turn over and over and over again.

And there are some Christians

who are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.

And I think John

can be read and has been read by

some as being just purely spiritual and not physical at all.

And I do think that's a misreading of this book.

Yes, Jesus is not weak in the telling this story,

and nor do I think we should try to put that into John.

I do think what's important to remember, though, is, is that John

is held in concert with the other witnesses of Jesus Christ

and we should read this book with Matthew, Mark and Luke.

And I think if you only studied John, if this was the only book that you had,

you would have a faithful telling of Jesus's story.

In fact, John goes so far as to say, you know, I've written this

so that you might believe this is it, this this was written for that purpose.

I would say, though, we are blessed to have

the other witnesses, and John should be read with them,

because the others have a way of helping hedge and

and sort of add nuance and interpretive guides to what John is attempting to do.

I think John onto itself needs to have the larger story

connected with it, because that helps us as we try to study it.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

I again, I think John is maybe compelling in those moments when you're thinking

the world seems out of control,

you know, is is God's sovereign, it seems like

we're on the losing end sometimes as faith people.

I think in those moments we we see in John a lot of invitation

for confidence and an appeal to surety in our faith.

I am this and I am that and that kind of language and the signs of Jesus,

and the fact that Jesus goes toe to toe with those who would try

to hold him down or silence him, or keep him from being what he is.

And, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

I do agree that I think it is helpful that the other

Gospels maybe blunt

that aggressive edge a little bit.

There's some of that in, in every gospel.

I think because John has

typically presented a Jesus

who is only who is just always the winner.

I mean, just it just Jesus is the most of everything. And,

I think that it is probably helpful

to make sure that that's tempered with those other accounts as well.

But, there's so much good stuff in the Gospel of John.

Again, so much stuff.

I think that is beloved,

so many moments that people

would probably, if they've been in the faith for a while,

they would know, even if they didn't know they were from the gospel of John.

Certainly the long prayer is

unique stands out the idea of us against the world.

Which or at least the world against Jesus, would be a better way to say it.

I think, you know, that's helpful to a point.

It can be overdone, but it's interesting and I think that it is,

it has some, some upsides as well.

But yeah.

I bet people would be surprised how much of what they know about

Jesus is typically is,

is at least possibly rooted in John's telling I.

One thing I love about John and I I'm going to say it this way, though, I,

I think it needs nuance, but I think John's a little sneaky with some of

the themes that are more abundantly clear, like in the book of Luke.

You know, Luke just explicitly tells stories about lost things.

In in John, there's a story of the woman at the well and then, you know,

we had the whole conversation about the woman caught

in the act of adultery, which, you know, was that included originally.

But all of those things, you know, look at that study.

But some of these examples of Jesus's compassion and grace

on the lost in the least in John are powerful stories.

They are amazingly nuanced and they're full of life and character.

And I think John is a gift to us in that, whether you're Nicodemus

or whether you're a woman who's in your,

you know, seven faith relationship, right at the end of the day,

Jesus's encounter with you will be life changing

and and everything that follows it will be different.

And the question that then comes to us as readers, those of us who've gone

this study together, is ultimately, how will our encounter with Jesus

change who we are and how will it transform our lives in the world?

And you know, the point is not to answer that for now and that be done.

The point is to come back to it over and over again.

Yeah, this may not make sense and push back Michael

if it needs clarification, but I would say that in some ways, John is.

So I think of the gospel of Mark and I think of Mark as a storyteller.

I don't think of John as a storyteller in the same way.

But but you could argue that nobody crafts stories better.

If you look at the ninth chapter of John, the Man Born Blind, and you see how John

dedicates that entire chapter to the themes

of seeing and blindness and darkness and light,

and you just look at that chapter alone and what John does with it,

to say something about Jesus and humanity

and sinfulness and power and and the way that he weaves

those themes together, that that may be the best told story

in all the Gospels, at least.

I wouldn't argue too strenuously with someone who tried to make that case.

I think I'd at least give them a hearing.

And John John does that incredibly well.

It's it's not narrative in the same way that Mark is,

because it's it is almost like a script.

It is just so well done and so packed,

and so carefully plotted and measured.

It's it's really, really good.

And I think John does that exceptionally well.

Well, to that point,

I think what you can say, Clint, is that

John is really, really interested in making clear to us that there's

more to this miracle than just the fact that someone who is blind can see.

I think you could read some of the other gospels and the miracle years itself.

This is miraculous.

I think in John, what you can see, it really corrects this idea.

Well, well, did the miracle happen?

Well, yes, that's an important question, but but John makes it clear

if you're only interested in the the yes or no, you missed

the point of the miracle, right? That's the whole point of the I.

It's only where it starts.

Exactly. Right.

And John lays that path for us.

And I think that that it really does shape the way that Christians read scripture.

Or even where we've been the last few days that that extensive.

And yes, the arguments is there, is it not there?

But look at the 21st chapter and

and the or even if you start in the 20th 21st chapter

with the unfolding appearances that each one reveals something new, right?

Shock and then amazement and then doubt and then

reinstatement and fishing and try the other side.

It just John is is so good

at carefully building those stories with the details

and allow so many handholds and footholds

to get into the story and to try and find something.

I just think John is exceptional at doing that.

And, and therefore is if if you're equipped

to follow some of what he's doing, if you if you bring enough Bible to the table

to see some of what he's doing, or at least if you have some good helps,

a good commentary or an online guide that you can learn.

You can just learn so much from this, this book, you won't understand all of it.

Maybe. But

there's a lot there that you will.

We're going to go for a while trying to find a better summary than that.

So we're glad to have you with us here today.

If you found this helpful, certainly give it a like subscribe.

So that you can be with us and notified when we start the study again up in a

in a few months. We're glad to have had you with us for John.

Look forward to seeing you for the next study. Thanks, everybody.