Everyone Leads | Dr. Jerry Mason

Services and reconnect and refresh and so and so forth.

Thank all of the ministries of Brother Doctor Jerry Mason, Alex

Mason Bishop, Brother Zach McGee, those of the field in

while we were gone and afforded this, that opportunity.

And so we appreciate that, Amen. But it's good to be back home,

Amen. Good to be back in the route.

I say routine, not hit the routine yet.

Bishop has put the clinker in the routine.

All right, so I haven't found the stride yet.

Amen. We're on Bishop routine right

now. So but it's good to be back,

Amen in Mount Carmel. Good to see each one of you,

Missy. So good to see you.

I heard you haven't been behaving very well though, post

op. And so we're we're going to like

tie you down tonight. Me and sister McGee after

service send you home on a Gurney tied down or something.

But anyway, glad to have each one of you.

Amen here. I'm going to have doctor makes

it come out here and join me tonight.

Over the past year here we have done a few interview type

sessions with hopefully from the viewpoint in the context of the

church or church life or things of that nature.

My wife and I did one about connecting with people and did

that because she's like a connector to the NTH degree,

whatever that is. And then we did one with also

brother Alex Mason. We were talking about social

media and that definitely within the context of of the church

realm, not just what comes from the church, but being a

Christian, how we post. And now we're conscious and

cognitive of what we're doing concerning those things.

And so tonight we want to do an interview with Doctor Mason.

And before I get into it, I'll I'll let him kind of give his,

you know, background. I know you don't have to be

prepared for that. You don't know your background.

Nobody does. But, but just kind of his

background, because we're going to talk about leadership tonight

and some might just right from the start say, well, I don't, I

don't hold a leadership position.

So that doesn't involve me or it's not about about me.

For sure within the church structure dynamic.

I'm that's not me. And that's some of the the

mindsets that we're hoping maybe to broaden a little bit this

evening by this talk. But I do have Doctor Mason with

me tonight. He does have a doctor in

leadership, but I don't know, I, I never get all the little

particulars just right. And so to save me the

embarrassment of botching that and him having to come to me

after this is done and saying I wasn't right, I'll just let him

say what that is tonight before we get started again.

He'll be able to do some of this, of course, from a business

side. But and I know there's a lot of

principles of leadership that's not just for business or or

community, but can also transfer over into the church realm as

well, though it may have its nuances for for that particular

focus. But I'll let him just kind of

give a little about himself. A lot of you may know, but

there's people in line that don't know.

And so just just to get us started before we get, you know,

waist deep into this tonight. All right, Doctor Mason.

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord.

So educationally, my doctorate degree is in organizational

management with an emphasis in CEO leadership.

See so. Already watched it.

That's that from an educational perspective, everything I've

done in my career over the last 25 years basically culminates

and wraps up inside of that. So I'll, I'll stop short there.

No, I appreciate that very much. So again, our subject tonight is

that everyone leads. Does anybody see themselves as a

leader in this place tonight? Yeah, a few people see

themselves as a leader. We have a lot of panic, back and

forth questions and such tonight material.

We may not get through all of it.

I'll try to be conscious of time and whoever is upstairs, if

anybody upstairs you don't mind to start a time for me.

Just so I know where I'm at here this evening, I want to talk to

tonight about leadership. There was a Harvard Business

Review study found. It found that 80% of people see

leadership as tied to a formal position.

And so with that in mind, tonight with the Mason, Dr.

Mason, I asked you this. So many people think about

leadership and they think about it.

They think about a label or title, something that has been

ascribed to them because of some position or something that they

serve in. How would you define leadership

just in everyday life type of situation?

My definition of leadership in everyday life would be #1

leadership is not about a title or position, but I would define

it as leadership is doing hard things.

OK. Because I think the reason why

so many people shy away from leadership is because it's not

easy. If leadership was easy, we

wouldn't still be publishing thousands of books every year on

leadership. There wouldn't be so many

seminars we wouldn't be talking about.

It would be a one and done and we'd be over with.

Leadership is not easy and since it truly starts with self

understanding and defining what that is for you can be very

difficult if you don't stop, if you don't allow somebody to help

you. Because everyday life is exactly

what it is. It's everyday life.

It's it's not fancy, it's often ugly.

The definition of everyday life often is something that we wish

we didn't have to put a label on because some days we finish it,

we wish we didn't have that day and we start tomorrow thinking I

want today to be different than yesterday.

So leadership in everyday life is it's doing hard things.

Doing hard things. Not doing things hard.

Not doing things hard. There's a difference.

Is it though even safe to say though that sometimes whenever

we're not necessarily consciously doing something that

is hard, maybe it's even second nature to us, but are we

possibly still leading in that moment?

I think you're leading every second you're breathing.

It's just a matter of recognizing it when you asked

the question. How many of you see yourself as

leaders and I didn't? Pan the crowd.

But I did lightly scan, and I lightly scanned quick enough to

see some of you shake your head no.

So that's where we have to start is where we see ourself.

If you're breathing, you're leading, you're leading

something, Hopefully you're leading yourself because you

can't effectively lead other people if you're not leading

yourself 1st. And the problem, I'll say the

problem with society, I don't pretend to have all the answers,

but one of the problems I think in society at large, at least in

America, because our leadership structure is different than

other countries, is we don't lead intentionally.

So we leave so much to be accidental parenting

relationships, God relationship. To lead effectively, you have to

be on purpose. You don't parent on accident,

you parent on purpose. You you don't get a job on

accident, you go for an interview, you're leading

yourself there. You don't keep a job on

accident. Not in today's world.

There's too many people searching for a job, so it's too

easy to lose 1. So you have to be intentional.

So I think if you're breathing, you're leading.

All right, a Peter Drucker once said it was a leadership guru.

Management is doing things right, leadership is doing the

right things. Leadership is more about

direction than authority. With that in mind, in your

experience and and maybe research that you've done for

your doctorate and other things, what makes someone a leader even

if they're never been given a formal role?

Watch what happens with the people around you.

That'll help you understand if when you speak, people are

listening. You don't need a title.

You've got influence with people, whether it's one,

whether it's a child, grandparent, a friend, it

doesn't matter. But if we, if you've got people

coming to you saying hey, I need some advice, you've got

influence. So without the title, you've

you've got an opportunity and you've got a not necessarily a

following, but you have an availability, an open door where

what you say matters. But we have to recognize

authority is not leadership. And I think that's why we get

confused between job title and leadership is we look to

authority figures as leaders. Authority is a component of

leadership. Authority by itself is not

leadership. So I've traveled a lot over the

last three months. And one of those trips I had, I

had a bit of a an awakening moment and it was early in the

morning, if you can believe that.

So I was with a group of people from work downtown Indianapolis.

Different time zone. Different time zone.

Yeah. Downtown Indianapolis at A, at a

breakfast joint eating there was like 8 or nine of us there.

From a organizational perspective, I was the highest

ranking person there, but it was breakfast.

It wasn't about that. It was just breakfast.

And we were eating. I was drinking my decaf.

Everybody else is enjoying their calf.

We're done eating. We're kind of sitting there just

a little bit before we get up. And I've never noticed this

before. And it really stood out to me

very loud and it screamed at me. So I reached the point where I

stood up. I, I scooted my seat back and I

stood up. I didn't make a point.

I didn't say anything. I didn't do anything other than

quietly scoot my chair back and stand up.

And as soon as I stood up, all eight other people went, They

stood up immediately. And it, it, it almost flustered

me just a bit. It it happened almost on so much

on command. And while we were walking down

the sidewalk, I realized that's authority.

That was rank. It was maybe a version of

respect because of that rank maybe.

But that was not leadership. Now it wasn't anti leadership,

but I'm trying to define define a distinction here.

Authority is not leadership. In that moment I really wasn't

leading. I stood up and because the boss

stood up, everybody else knew automatically it's time to

stand. That's authority, plain and

simple. Let's not confuse authority and

rank and what we see with leadership, because leadership

is not just about the name on the marquee and the person

holding the microphone and the person with the title or the

initials behind their name. It's simply you looking in the

mirror saying I'm going to do better today than I did

yesterday. That's leadership all.

Right. And I think we could all do

better tomorrow than we have today, that's for sure.

I go into a biblical reference here tonight.

Jesus said in Matthew 514, and he was addressing his disciples,

He said you are the light of the world, you are the light of the

world. And thinking in that context,

believing then that their influence was unavoidable

because light permeates anything and everything that's around it,

that influence is unavoidable. So we're shining something,

whether good or bad, it's permeating.

So how do you see the biblical idea of influence aligning with

the modern leadership principles of influence?

Kind of that comparison, contrast or parallel between the

biblical model and the modern day leadership model.

So I realized there would be people that would debate this

and there are people, especially anti religion people would

debate this fiercely. But I think they're one in the

same Textbooks, case studies, Harvard Business Review

articles. You, you can you can run the

gamut on what you pick as your reading material.

When it comes to leadership, many of them quote the Bible.

They don't exclude it. Now, they may not appreciate it

for what it is from our standpoint, but they quote it

also from a leadership perspective.

Many even teach corporately without calling it from a

religious perspective. They teach the the principles of

leadership that Jesus possessed in not possessed.

But yeah, I guess portrayed in developing 12 Men to Go and

Change the world. That's a case study in

leadership. So the real question is if we

don't see ourselves as leader leaders, are we being the light

of the world? That's good because the two

should not be separable. I my, my first, really, we'll

call it good encounter with what we, what I would call a true

leader. My first one was in March of

2003 and I came home and I told my wife almost word for word.

I can remember it vividly. If this guy is not baptized in

Jesus name and doesn't have the Holy Ghost, then I'm really

confused. Because he demonstrated light

through his leadership. Through true leadership.

He demonstrated what a leader was supposed to be, not somebody

sitting up on a lofty perch waiting on everybody to serve

him. He demonstrated what it was

truly like to serve others, to care about others, to pour into

others, and he opened up something to me that I didn't

even know truly existed or I thought I had lost.

Now, as it turns out, it took me several months to figure this

out. He did not have the Holy Ghost

and he was not baptized in Jesus name.

And I make this next statement with the utmost respect.

And I'm not trying to dive really, really deep in the

caverns here, but he possessed something in his leadership that

it's been very difficult for me to find in the church because,

and, and I'm not blaming the church, but I'm afraid within

the church circle, we are guilty over the years of separating

church and leadership. And they should work.

They should coexist together. Right through everything you

just said, made me think about Cornelius in Acts chapter #10 I

would think that maybe someone that met Cornelius would say

that he was a good leader. He's praying, he's giving alms,

he's doing these sorts of things.

But that aspect of spirit infilling wasn't there.

Though he may have showcased a very good leadership aspect as

far as in those things, but nonetheless want to talk about

everyday influence. John Maxwell is famous for

saying leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.

If that's true, everyone here is a leader because everyone

influences someone. So how does that idea play out

in the different spheres, like a family, a workplace, a church

setting, you know, in those different spheres of life that

we encounter? So the way it plays out depends

on what you do with it in you mentioned three things there,

family. Family, workplace, work, church

so. Let's let's hit family first.

So in family, if you, if you aren't intentional about your

family, then you have to accept everything that accidentally

happens to it. So I, I think, I think there's,

there's a couple of different things to look at in, in life.

There's, there's different groups or segments of people.

There's leaders, there's followers who are leaders of

themselves, but by title, by sphere, they're followers and

there's nothing wrong with that. They're skeptics.

And then there's there's anti judgmental martyr, martyrdom

people. And those are people that live

with a victim mentality. People with victim mentality

allow life to happen to them. Leaders understand even when

you're just leading yourself. I've got to be intentional.

It may not be perfect, but I'm going to make a conscious

choice. I own this.

I'm making a decision to do XYZI own it.

No one's doing it to me. Life isn't happening to me.

I am making a choice to own my decision and and act maturely by

that. So influence what happens with

it is, is really depends on what you do with it.

If you're accidental, that's what you're going to get.

And those people almost never get out of victim mentality

because everything is everybody else's fault.

Most leaders, and I'm talking good leaders, I'm not talking

about Washington, DC. Most good leaders, most servant

leaders, will almost always blame themselves first.

It's not necessarily a prerequisite to being a leader,

but if you study leadership deeply, you'll find that most of

the good ones always stand and say, what could have I done

differently? Not this is my fault.

Not not that it's their fault. It's what could I do?

One of my biggest pet peeves on the job and we've worked hard

over the last four years to kind of weed this out.

And I'll let you interpret what that means on your own.

But is leaders by title, who every time something happens

wrong says, well, as the team members fault, we'll retrain

them. They messed up.

Our approach is if they messed up, we failed them and didn't

equip them to do it right. So how it plays out, it's up to

you. It's it's approach, it's it's

activity. It's what am I doing with the

influence I have. And it really has to start with

you recognizing you have influence.

Studies show that people make an average of 35,000 decisions per

day. For those indecisive ones, I

apologize. I feel sorry for you.

But each one impacts someone else, even in small ways.

So what are some ways people unknowingly lead either

positively or negatively in their daily lives?

Unknowingly. Lead Well, that's that's good.

That's deep. I, I think, I think it's easiest

unfortunately to maybe to focus on some negative examples first.

How do we unknowingly lead our attitude first and foremost?

So a couple of mornings ago, I'll tell them myself.

So a couple, I LED somebody the other morning, 5:30 in the

morning, I'm at the corner of 4th and Mulberry at a stop sign

and going down Mulberry way. There is no stop sign there.

So there's a car coming. I'm, I'm headed out of town to

work and everybody who knows me deeply or or closely knows by

nature I'm I'm not a morning person, so.

Can we silence all comments on Facebook at this time?

Yeah, OK. I the the drive to work is

beneficial for me since I'm not a morning person.

So I'm, I'm sitting there though, but I'm, I'm ready to

get my drive going and there's a, a pickup truck coming from my

left and he's, he's going slower than a street sweeper.

I could have got out and and walked faster than he was going,

but I'm at the stop sign and I'm sitting there thinking, are you

serious right now? Come on, come on, come on.

And then, man or woman, I don't know.

It was dark, but whomever it was, when the pickup truck got

right in front of me at the pace of the street sweeper, I look

up. I thought, you dog, you're

driving so slow because you're reading your mail or you're

checking Facebook. So what did 5:30 in the morning,

Jerry Mason do? I laid on the horn.

I laid on the horn and I started yelling at him.

Now he didn't hear me. I kept my window up and I'm like

come. On.

Then by the time I got to the stop sign at the top of the

hill, I felt shame. It was like, you're better than

this, You're better than this. They may not have heard you.

They may not have even heard the horn.

I don't know. But you're better than this.

So negative examples, they happen.

They happen quickly. Unfortunately, they happen

easily. But when we don't get out of our

own bubble and we don't stop. I talked about this Sunday

morning and we don't take a pause before we speak and we

don't think about what we're going to say.

Most often that abuse is to the people that's closest to us.

But that doesn't make it right. Just because they just because

they love us doesn't mean we have the right to talk to them

that way. So our attitude surfaces, our

leadership suffers, and we influence them in some way based

on that negative attitude. So you think it's maybe safe to

say? Cuz in my personal opinion, I

think that can go two ways, Like those that are near to us, we

can unknowingly lead or consciously lead just because

they're close. We think we have a relational,

you know, equity with them. So we can get by with poor, poor

leadership in that mode. But then on the other hand,

sometimes around people we don't know or around people we don't

know. And we said we didn't do that

because I'll never see them again anyway.

And so I can just, you know, it don't matter because they don't

know me. I don't know them.

So a moment of just me, raw, without self-awareness, nothing

lost. That's really the key,

self-awareness. We'll never know any of it

without self-awareness because a lot of people in life will not

come to you and tell you, you hurt my feelings the other day.

That's true. That's.

True, a lot of people will not come to you and say you

impressed me the other day. We don't do that.

Either either or Yeah. It just goes unsaid and then we

move through life not knowing any difference.

So without self-awareness, we think everything's OK.

self-awareness needs to teach us when we're right and when we're

wrong. That's a that's a tough journey

of acceptance. Another scripture want to refer

to tonight is Proverbs 11 and verse #3 says the integrity of

the upright shall guide them. Character is the compass of

leadership. How does personal character

shape leadership more than skill or position?

So I don't think personal character should ever be

separated from leadership. And the reason why we have

people leading in ways that don't define what we call good

leadership is because they separate character from

leadership. Character should absolutely

define your leadership because your leadership is made-up of

who you are. Good character or bad character,

it's going to, it's going to show through your leadership and

not to get I'm, I'm trying to stay apolitical here because not

every bad leader is a politician, but we often, we

often look at bad examples as politicians.

And one of the reasons for that is because they're elected

positions. There are a lot of, and I'm

generalizing here, right, throwing everybody into one

bucket, which is somewhat unfair.

But a lot of those elected offices, they're running for a

paycheck or they're running for an office, they're running for a

certain class of job. They're not running for heart,

they're not running for passion, they're not running for calling.

So it's not about character for them, it's about office.

So we have to be very careful not to separate character from

leadership, because when that happens is when I think we have

ethical, moral failures. Let's talk a little bit about

now leadership in the church because again, our context is,

is hopefully the church and some of the things that even been

mentioned thus far have church application in Scripture.

Many of the most influential people had no official title.

For instance, the boy with the five loaves and the two fishes,

we never even know his name. No title.

We have the servant girl who told name and where to find

healing or who to go to. Again, just a certain servant

girl. There was also then the widow

with her two mites. Nameless yet no doubt showcased

leadership in her actions. So who stands out to you

personally as a great leader without an official title?

And if you're going to go in the world, I didn't, you know, this

is not in anything that we rehearse because you probably

have a great one in mind. But then if you can quickly

switch from that, if it's not a biblical one, try to switch for

me a biblical one that is also a great leader.

Maybe that title. Is perhaps I've really struggled

with this question I'm. Glad I could make it more

difficult. So there are plenty of examples

in the world of great leaders without titles.

Those that have impacted me personally, very difficult for

me to come up with one that just purely just did not have any

type of title whatsoever. The closest I think I can get is

some of the most influential people to me may not, may have

never been on a grand stage. Right.

Sure. The world doesn't know their

name. Right.

The evangelist that preached a Sunday night service on August

the 9th, 1996, Nineteen 86. Excuse me, the night that I

didn't pay attention to one word that was said during the

message. But when he started giving an

altar call service and the Holy Ghost fell, a 11 year old

drummer from the back row made his way to the altar to pray and

God filled him with the Holy Ghost.

The world does not know that man's name.

Matter of fact, a lot of the modern church world doesn't even

know his name. But it was one of the most

defining moments in my life. It's the best of God.

So that's good. I didn't know really where he

was going to go with it. So now that's great because that

kind of keeps us in the church, in the church realm for sure.

Ephesians 416 says that the whole body is fitly joined

together according to the effectual working in every part.

That means every believer has a leadership role to play in the

body. How can church members embrace

leadership in their own circles? Whether his parents, friends,

coworkers, how, how can they, how can they possess and and

embrace that leadership aspect, even church aspect, you know

all. So how can church members

embrace their leadership in their circles?

Protect each other? The Bible talks in the book of

Jude about some pulling them out of the fire, and that may be an

extreme example, but we need to stop allowing to we need to stop

watching our friends walk away from God.

We want to talk about leadership in a church aspect.

You have a voice in the person sitting next to you or you

should we. We need to stop, allow.

We need to stop leaving everybody's spiritual success up

to the pulpit. We should be our brother's

keeper. Now, I this, there's a whole

other sub element to this of right way, right approach that

has to be considered. You can't just go up to somebody

and say you're going to hell. You need to stop it.

Yeah. Please don't do.

That. But when you know someone, when

this man operates in the spirit, that's one thing.

But in the moments when that supernatural prophetic word

doesn't happen and you've got a friend that you know is toying

with things of the world, you need to get them to breakfast

and get in their ear and start carrying on them.

Not condemning them, but you need to start loving on them.

I think we position ourselves for avoidance too quickly

because it feels awkward and we don't know what to do.

All we need to do is love each other.

Love is leadership and the absence of love is negative

leadership. It's us choosing to walk away

when Jesus said He never would. Absolutely.

And that whole aspect of appreciation, everybody likes to

be appreciated. It doesn't matter who you are or

what you serve in. And sometimes a small word of

appreciation peer-to-peer, however that dynamic may be,

you're breathing life into someone.

And I think I think that's being a good leader given that

appreciation at every level. And some, you know, visit John

Maxwell that says you need to see a 10 above everybody's head.

Isn't that correct? And sometimes it's may be hard

to find certain people are more of a Rubik's Cube.

Sometimes it's hard to find that aspect.

But if you look, you'll you'll, you'll find what you're looking

for. You look for something negative

to somebody, you're going to find it.

You look for something positive in someone as hoard as it could

possibly maybe be, you're going to find it because you'll find

what you're looking for. And so I think that that comes

to bear on that as well. Paul, the apostle Paul, that is,

often use the body metaphor, showing that no part is less

valuable than another. We've done teachings and things

on this before. And so leadership in the church,

as whether Doctor Mason has already said, isn't, isn't about

a pulpit, it's about participation.

So how does leadership function in the body of Christ where

every part, even the Scripture underscores every part, is

necessary? When every part isn't

functioning, things are getting missed.

We talk about 5 fold ministry and there's, I've often heard

Bishop and I've heard pastor talk about it, how we need all

five in the church, we need all five in the local assembly.

And when you don't have that, you have a gap.

Something is missing. It's the same thing with your

leadership. When you aren't leading, that

means something's not getting done that only you can do.

Because we've allowed our enemy to trick us into thinking that

our lot in life is to sit on a seat, clap our hands during

worship, and that's it. Well, I don't know what I'm

supposed to do. That's fine.

Pursuit happens. The journey of discovery needs

to happen. But if you're not on a journey

of discovery for what God's will is for your life for you to do,

then you're missing opportunity. Because every single person.

You don't have to teach a Sunday school class.

You don't have to run a media booth.

You don't have to vacuum a floor.

There's something for you to do. So I, I think I, my answer is

how does that operate? It operates at its fullest when

everybody finds their place and the accident that has happened

over the years or the mistake that's happened over the years

is we, we, we want to focus on only the things we see.

I've known too many people that wanted to focus on singing a

special song. Singing was not their gifting.

Just an example. Find your gifting.

If music's not your gifting, find your gifting.

There is a whole lot and I'm not trying to be anti what we do

because I love what we do, but there is so much more to leading

in church than pulpit ministry, music ministry, Sunday school

rooms, all of the popular things that we see.

There's so much more that is the culmination of a whole lot of

other stuff and it all works in tandem together so much better

when more people are involved and more people are doing their

gifting. Because then Once Upon a time,

some of you know this, Once Upon a time Bishop, when he was

pastor, he was pastor, he was yard mower, baptistry operator,

carpet cleaner, dust mop sprayer, sound man.

If you as a pastor back in the 80s and 90s and maybe early

2000s and you didn't know how to do everything, you was lost.

So we're a lot more blessed today than we used to be, but I

still am afraid that we're missing about 80%.

God's will is not for us to just be participants.

He wants us to be active leaders in whatever the gifting He has

given you to be. And then our, our

responsibility, of course is underscoring the value of

everyone. I will not get the saying right,

but the, the, the gist of it is there.

It's a little saying that says for one of a nail, Speaking of a

nail that goes into a horseshoe, one of a nail, the horseshoe is

lost. One of the horseshoe, the horse

basically lay in the, the trotting was injured and one of

the horse then the carriage it was pulling wrecked and one of

the carriage, the people that were riding in it lives perished

all for the want of a nail. And so it kind of underscores

the value of there's a succession of domino effect just

because of the loss of a nail. And so the value then of that is

you can't, it's priceless. And I think that same mentality

then for everybody that operates within the organization of the

church at whatever level, the value is just beyond putting a

figure on because it's needful and, and, and it's necessary.

I want to talk a little bit about growth and responsibility

here. You mentioned Harvard, Harvard

Business Review. So here we go.

Let's quote them. Harvard Business Review notes

that 70% of a leader's development happens on the job,

not in formal training. Growth is about daily habits.

What practical steps can someone take to grow as a leader, even

if they don't see themselves as one?

Take a very practical perspective.

Find leaders in your life. People that you would determine

would be leaders. Watch them to study them.

I used to try to emulate people because they they possessed

certain behaviors that I wanted to be the type of person that

possessed that behavior. So I studied that person.

How? How can I adapt that read?

I know that sounds like dirty words to some people because

some people like to brag that they don't read, but everybody

in this room reads. You may not read books, you may

not read novels, but everybody in this room reads.

If you don't read delete Facebook off your phone.

Do that 300 foot death scroll. You're reading people that read

the newspaper but don't like to read books.

That's fine. But you're reading.

So find you some materials that fit you sure that help educate

you. So the majority of my Instagram

scroll is stuff I can learn from and it's usually quick 15 second

reads. If I don't have time to sit down

and read a few chapters in a book.

I've, I've got things, I've got a following that I follow that

I, I check out to see, OK, what, what can I pour into my mind?

So you have to. Take practical steps to develop.

You don't have to have school. I appreciate my journey, but my

journey is not for everybody. And people that don't follow my

journey, that does not make them bad leaders because some of the

best leaders that I've had in my life do not have the educational

background that I have. And that by no means makes me

better than them. And that kind of goes on the

Harvard thing on the job, not necessarily formal training

experience. He's a great teacher.

I would start with practical things.

If you have an appetite for wanting to develop, find an Ave.

to be developed. Amen.

I was thinking of another illustration a little bit while

he's talking that we could the value thing.

OK, since it's the holidays, will you indulge me for a

moment? The Grinch goes down to the big

Christmas tree that's not lit up.

He finds the one light bulb twist.

Oh yeah, I'm just saying, I know it's ridiculous, right?

And I'm probably being silly, but it was just one light bulb

that it's that we kept the circuit incomplete whenever it

wasn't engaged. And so anyway, nonetheless

another one Paul told Timothy, be thou an example of believers

in first Timothy 412. That's leadership at its

simplest, right? Be an example of the believers

realizing someone is always watching your example.

But how should Christians handle the responsibility that comes

with the fact that people are always watching their example?

So that's heavy. You have to 1st accept the fact

that people are watching. And if you, if you refute that

fact or try to fight against it, it's going to be a hard life.

But here's the thing, whether they're watching your Christian

walk or watching something else, there's always somebody watching

something that are watching you. So we might as well give them a

good show. We might as well give them the

right things to watch. How?

How can we approach it? 1 Accept it to own it.

But I think maybe the most important thing we need to

recognize, and this applies to both just Christian walk and

leadership, is we need to understand that leaders are not

perfect. And the same amount of grace

that we want for ourselves, we need to apply to others, even

those in leadership positions. Because the person that's in a

leadership position or in a leadership posture in your life

is likely going to make you mad, disappoint you, or hurt your

feelings faster than anybody else because you're looking to

them for guidance and you're hanging your hat and your hopes

on them. Help me, lead me, guide me.

And they're human. So we, we have, if we're going

to do this together and do it in harmony, we have to allow each

other the grace of knowing that leaders are not perfect.

They're going to make mistakes. Right, Yeah, they are.

And and I know sometimes the statement is what about is human

right? And that's true.

And it's we got to be careful though, with that statement

because it can become in the catch all excuse there anything

we want to justify in our lives, right?

And so we got to be careful with that.

At the same time, just because a person's leader, they don't need

to be look at this perfection level status where nothing will

error, nothing will go wrong as well.

By no means because the. Key The key to whether or not

you continue to follow them after their mistake or not is

how they respond to their mistake.

Sure, sure. It's less about the mistake and

more about the response, the repentance, the the change.

Sure, so giving each other latitude goes a long way in that

respect. We often think leaders have to

be on the top rung, but history shows many game changers were in

the middle. For one biblically, think of

Daniel, who was taken from his country to a foreign land

serving under Pagan kings, yet in that position, he's shaping

that entire Kingdom. Can you share a moment where you

saw someone perhaps lead powerfully from the middle of an

organization, church, whatever it may be, rather than the top

kind of that 360° leader type of thing?

So there there is an example that stands out in my mind.

I I hope it hits what you're looking for.

If not, tell me, OK, it's an example that I, I, I really like

and I appreciate it's, it's one of my staff members.

We were traveling together. We were in a series of meetings

to give you a little bit of context.

Yet you have to understand something in, in my line of

work, especially in a Japanese companies are managed

differently than American companies.

And so the, the management expectations is even just a

little different. There's a nuance to it that's a

bit different, which ultimately just means as a top leader, I am

expected to know a whole lot because when when my boss has

asked me a question, they expect me to know the answer or to be

able to at least provide guidance to get the answer.

So it's not like some typical American companies where the top

guy doesn't know anything and the, the, the lower people are

doing everything. Everything's kind of integrated

that provides a lot of pressure. So I was in AI was in a meeting

one time and I, I had one of my managers with me and then one of

his specialist and the room drew their attention.

The guy that was speaking drew his attention to me as the, the,

the top guy representing our company in that meeting.

And he was asking a question. And I'm going to be honest with

you, it was a question that I really didn't know the answer

to. And but I was getting ready to

talk because that comes with the job.

You have to. You just have to dive in.

So I was getting ready to talk. And the specialist guy, who had

been in his role less than a year, just jumps in.

He says, well, if you don't mind, I'll answer that one.

And I'm like, so when he got done, I was like, yeah, what?

He said no, but it what it what it did for me is it it showed me

he wasn't afraid to speak. So I was very happy and proud

about that. But it was an example of pure

leadership because he could have just very easily went by rank

and said they're not talking to me.

I'm not talking. But he knew the answer because

it was actually his job field. He knew the answer.

He knew what needed to be said. He knew how he needed to best

represent our company in that moment.

So he jumped in to support. And it wasn't a Jerry didn't

know what to say. So I'll do this for him.

It was him genuinely when the right heart, right mind jumping

in because in his mind it was his job.

So he jumped in to answer the question, answer the concerns,

whatever it was at the moment. So that's one another is a bit

maybe, maybe more generically. And and I see this happen at

work too, And I think when it can happen, right, it's a

healthy environment. But there's there's a phrase

that's been around for years calling speak truth to power.

And there are people, there are people that just want to pardon

my my way of saying stick it to the man, right?

That's their mentality. They whatever they can do

against the company or against the boss, that's what they want

to do because they want to show them up.

That's the wrong mentality. But there are people who have

the leadership in them that when they know something's not right,

they'll say it. Even when they're saying it to a

position of power, they say it with respect and they say it in

the right way. That's leading from the middle

ground. I was thinking too, while you

were speaking as I was thinking of Jesus, because in his earthly

ministry, I believe that he was attempting to foster that middle

leadership even from his disciples and people that was

around him of times He posed a question, not because he didn't

know the answer, but he was inviting them into a place to

take their stand, their voice, the concept and, and and go with

it because of course Jesus knew and he had told them, you know,

I'm going to be going away. And so you're going to be

serving in this capacity in row and I I see him fostering that

even before it was absolutely needed in the moment because

because he he seemed that that that middle leadership was was

important just a little bit and I just a few more questions

because I see our time already correcting misconceptions.

I'm going to use the scripture here.

Mark 1043. The Bible says some people

avoid. That's not what the Bible says.

This is kind of a lead in some people avoid the world leader

because the word leader because they picture a boss, not a

servant. Jesus flipped the definition.

Mark 1043. Whoever wants to be great among

you must be your servant. How would you refrain the

mindset of people who resist being called a leader?

What else would you rather be called?

Goes back to the beginning of the discussion.

If you're not leading, are you light?

So I don't know what we want to be called if we don't want to

accept what God, God called us to be, because God's calling for

us to lead ourselves is a personal calling, but it's a

requirement for every one of us. Pastor often says God's a

gentleman, and I believe we've all grown to appreciate that

statement. But even though God's a

gentleman, he still has expectations of us.

He's not going to force himself on you.

But because he's a gentleman, I also don't believe he's going to

do for you what you can do for yourself.

So that answer your. Question somewhat because Jesus

course leader, they're saying boss in some people's minds.

Jesus leader says servant and so it's kind of a dynamic of how

you view leadership, right, whether it's a top or if it's a

serving. It's kind of a contrasting of

pictures. If you say in the mind that

Jesus very supportive of servant leadership.

You know if you can accept the word leader if it goes along

with the idea of servanthood more than leader, as in I guess

the misconception of just authority and power.

So a Barna found Barna study found that only 14% of

Christians strongly agree that they are leaders.

The mindset leaves most of the church underestimating their

influence. What dangers arise when people

assume leadership is only for a few instead of a shared

responsibility? So I think it's very dangerous

and I think the dangers are the wrong things happen or the right

things don't happen. So I, I, I worry that we've

disconnected or that we've, we've not valued leadership the

right way and we've used spirituality as an excuse.

Let me explain and I'll be quick because I know we're running

close on time. But when King Saul got into the

company of profits, the Bible says he prophesied because he

got into a worship atmosphere. He didn't prophecy because he

was a prophet. He prophesied because he was in

the presence of God in the book of Acts.

When they received the Holy Ghost, the Bible says they

turned around and they began to lay hands on people and

prophecy. It wasn't because they were

leaders yet, because we've got a whole lot of books of epistles

after that that lead us into the gifts of the Spirit on how to

mature as Christians. My point is there's a whole lot

of things that happen spiritually and I'm afraid in

the church we've looked at we've we've looked at people as

spiritual leaders, as being leaders, and there's a

difference. Spiritual leadership does not

equip you for leadership. We fail if we don't equip people

for leadership just because they have a spiritual title.

So we have to somehow have a recognition that in the church

we need both giftings. I'm not knocking the spiritual

at all. We need the spirituality, we

need the prophecy, we need the worship.

We need God's gifting spiritually, but a person when I

when I when we were growing up, there was no such thing as

training for the pulpit. There, there, there wasn't.

This is how you put a sermon together.

This is how you teach. This is what there was nothing

but get up and do it and hope for the best.

On the job training. On the job training, there was

no equipping, so being called of God to preach and stand behind a

pulpit did not equip me to be a leader.

That's why we have people behind behind sacred desks abusing

leadership because they usurp authority spiritually and it's a

dangerous place to walk. It's two separate giftings,

spiritual giftings in the church, and we need leadership

giftings in the church, and that starts with you and me.

It doesn't start with titles, it doesn't start with positions.

It starts with each one of us leading ourselves the best way

that we know how. 1% better every day.

And when we mess up, we try harder the next day.

It's no more complicated than that.

It's trying, it's effort, and it's recognizing God called you

to lead. Absolutely.

We'll go close here real soon. I just want to go back to the

previous question because I still feel like I haven't quite

given that justice yet. What came to mind is I think

this whole episode of servant leadership and seeing the top is

this untouchable thing and Jesus does the most perfect thing in

John 13. John 13 is where the Last

Supper, the disciples are there whom have seen this Jesus speak

a word and bring life back into a body.

Heal the sick, blind eyes open the the multitudes being fed and

they're like this guy. Oh, and the same person walks

into the room with these people and they all have and they

typically wore like sandal type shoes that day.

That the ground in the area is dirt and dusty and people have

their herds that they do and there's manure in the streets.

They pick that up on their feet. And it was typical then when you

come into a house like that, there's going to be some feet

that's going to be washed. And usually the waters provided

for the lowest of servants to come to wash the feet.

And Jesus begins to take off his robe, which any robe in that day

identified the person who they were.

He shedded that identity, the robe that he wore when he healed

the sick, the robe that he wore whenever he brought someone that

was dead back to life. He took off his identity, girded

himself with a towel, bit down in front of each of those

disciples and assumed that position begin to wash their

feet. He turned the whole idea of

leadership upside down for that moment.

This all untouchable came down to begin to touch one of the

most, you know, probably awkward things to touch of a person's

another person's body, their feet.

So about eight years or so ago, I was in a corporate training

seminar taught by a former Navy SEAL who used John, 13, as the

basis of his corporate teaching, in a room full of vice

presidents and directors. And he closed his entire day's

session with mapping out the foot.

I've got a drawing of it at home somewhere, and I can't rehearse

it from memory right now, But each toe had a meaning.

And he closed by saying, think of your family, think of your

relationships, think of your team.

Whose feet are you going to wash and why it's that important?

Yeah, I think it's somewhere in the middle is the heart that

although the enemy was already working on Judas, maybe if I can

just touch that region that will still touch his heart through

his feet anyway. Amen.

Let's stand tonight. I hope this was a meaningful to

somebody and maybe help somebody along the way.

Amen. This is the only third one that

we've done. Let's give Doctor Mason

appreciation. Amen.

Tonight for agreeing to join and be a part and share with his

experience both in the work world, church world and so on

and so forth. Amen.

This Sunday, folks, we have church.

All right, church coming up this Sunday, Sunday morning, Sunday

night, supposed to have a child dedication.

Little Cersei is supposed to be dedicated.

Brittany want to get her dedicated to the Lord.

And so let's pray to the end that everybody, she's well and

everything to be able to participate in that.

And so that's coming up this Sunday.

Again, next Wednesday, no service here.

Gobble, gobble, Turkey, Turkey. OK, everybody, if you do want to

join in services, there will be live streaming, I'm sure, of the

National Youth Convention and the services that are taking

place there. And so they're always great and

powerful. And so we pray for a good week.

The rest of your week, Please remember as you exit, Please

remember Bishop and his wife. All right?

I don't know what the outcome of anything's going to be over the

next few days or how many four days it's going to be all right.

I did tell them though, I've made two trips to their house to

get stuff that they needed. Have been to Evansville every

day this week, and I told them if they need anything else from

their house, I'm packing their suitcases for a week and just

bring them. So I'm not coming anymore, Amen.

But let's just pray for them, Amen.

Let's just dismiss right now prayer.

Father, I thank you tonight, God, for your spirit.

I thank you, O Lord Jesus, for your word.

I thank you, Lord, for the example, Lord, that you have

Lord showcased to us through your word.

Lord, even in the area of leadership, I pray, O Lord, God,

if someone walked in this place tonight thinking the Lord that

that wasn't them or they, they don't influence anybody in any

direction. I hope, Lord, a mindset has been

shifted and we see truly that each and everyone of us have

value and we have value in the in the area.

Leadership in our lives and in our circles that we interact

with. I pray, oh Lord, today be with

your people. Give them good weeks.

God, let those that are sick become healthy.

God, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen and Amen the

church say Amen. God bless you tonight in Jesus

name. We'll see you on.