EP10: Bonus Episode Q and A with Matt Williams

Grace Church members, welcome back to the podcast.

I'm Chris Rivers one of your host and I'm really glad to join

you for this special episode in our last episode, we heard from

Matt Williams on several ways. We could move towards the

scriptures and 2023 and at the end of our time with Matt, we

had a chance to ask him some questions.

And quite frankly we just didn't turn off the recording so we

chose not to include this additional discussion and our

last interview. So in this This episode I want

to share his answers to questions from that time on

things like how Grace Church decides on what series to teach

why the use of the New Living Translation and his thoughts on

developing leaders and a whole lot more.

So I hope you enjoy this special Q&A episode with Matt Williams.

Let's jump into it. Mack one of the questions that

comes from a lot of folks is they want to know how do we

decide the series. The Books of the Bible in the

series that we're going to teach as a jerk.

I go far away to a mountain and I pray and God tells me honestly

some of it is a simple as we were in the New Testament.

So now we're going to pick something in the Old Testament,

the Old Testament. Now we're gonna be some of the

New Testament and that is real rudimentary on top of that.

We are looking at what we've been teaching and what would be

different. And what we've been teaching.

And so and I'm saying all that because it really is true.

I mean, but then the ultimate grid as we're looking at and I

said this somewhere recently, but that we look at what is

wrong in the culture? And how is our church following

the culture, And what do the scriptures say about that.

And then what book of the Bible would help us do it that the

most, you know, and there are some you think about the book of

Hebrews, how difficult that is to study?

And then to try to teach, especially in modern culture but

when you think about how self-reliant we become you like

with this book, would speak to that.

We have a mediator. We got to have intercessor, we

are not good on our own and that's what we're doing.

We're looking at what's broken. What seems to be the most

profoundly broken thing about our church right now?

And folks right now and then how do with the scripture speak to

that? And then we just we want to say

we don't want to back away. We want to say, well God's been

speaking and we hadn't been listening.

Well, this is our shot, let's try to teach it and listen,

let's do it. Let's listen.

So recently, we did the Book of Ecclesiastes.

So what was the problem that came up and the problem in the

culture that our church was file?

How did you get to that as a team?

I think Ecclesiastes comes off the heels of With.

And we saw during covid on a bunch of levels in a bunch of

ways that we are people who have Berry much as people who say,

they believe in Jesus and say that we belong to another

kingdom is that we have in so many ways over identified with

this Earthly Kingdom. And it might be my safety, my

security, my significance, my political party, my American is

them, This country Traditional Values, My Religion be, we'll

just over identified with what it means to be a part of this

Kingdom. And Ecclesiastes is an atomic

bomb that destroys my identification with this world.

He just takes you to the end of the line, every on every single

issue that might be important to you, he drags you to the front

of the line and goes, look, this is the line you're standing in.

This is, this is where that's going to end.

This is how This ends for you if you stay in this line.

And so, you need to get out of that line and get involved with

God's kingdom and something that's bigger, more

Transcendent, its Eternal. And that that's a perfect

example of how we kind of work do that.

Why do we use the New Living Translation?

We were using the nasdaq-100 five.

Obviously before the latest one came out 2020 and I love that

translation. It's what I cut my teeth on the

way it represents. It's when I studied, Greek, and

Hebrew. And Seminary, I know how the

words line up. It just makes sense to me.

It's so good, but it is a little formal in places, and it does

use words that are not common in current English American

English, and I felt like I was standing on stage explaining the

English, some of the phrasings, the way commas were used, the

way sentences were structured or words that are not common.

I felt like I was, it was explaining the English.

English. And so the New Living Bible was

a paraphrase that was been existence for a long time and

then like 95 or somewhere around there they upgraded to a

translation so the new instantly Living Translation.

So there's a difference between a paraphrase in Translation.

So I checked on it, good scholarship, every translation

has strengths, every translation has weaknesses, but I felt like

a ten-year-old could read the NLT and be like, yeah, I get it

15 year old could read it be like Yeah, I pretty much

understand it a 25 year old. He's never been in church, could

read that and be like, yeah, I mean I don't believe it, but I

understand it, you know? And I just felt like I could

stand on stage and we could read the English together and if

there was something more technical like a phrase be made

right with God, I could say now you're older translations, use

the word reconcile and I could put reconcile on the screen.

Have your sins paid for it now the Older translations.

The NLT says, have your sins paid for the older translation?

Some of those will say redemption.

You were redeemed. I could write that on the

screen, I could talk about. That's what this means.

If you ever see the word redeemed we could do both.

I felt like when I was working with the more wouldn't

translation I couldn't do both. I was always having to explain

the other way and it was easier to explain more technical than

it was to just take a step back that happened at the time went

and met with the church in Florida.

And we were putting all our verses on the screen and This

guy didn't know me. It was executive.

Pastor of that church. He goes, hey, I hear you.

Put all your verses on the screen.

I was like, I don't know how you would have heard that.

But yeah, and he goes, I want to encourage you not to do that.

I want to encourage you to make people bring Bibles and look at

their Bibles and learn how to look stuff up and you can put

verses on screen some but I just want to encourage you to think

about that. I was like you think by telling

people to bring Bibles to church?

They're going to actually do that and then after church,

they're going to read them. And he guess I don't know he

goes, but I know if you keep them on the screen, they're not

good point. And I was like, I rode back on

the plane thinking, I could not get out of my head.

So I came back and I said, all right, we need about six

thousand dollars, buy Bibles, we put Bibles in the pews, I stood

up and told people to do, you need a Bible?

Take a Bible, it was in LT. Take it home.

I go my kids bedrooms every five or six bottles.

My kids are the biggest thieves in the world.

They were stealing. I was like take the ball back to

church. I just forgot and so it was

great. People were actually We bringing

Bibles. They were picking them up.

They were opening them. They were getting a feel of what

I'd be like. Hey, look in the look in the

concordance. You don't know where Zach right?

You don't know where Isaiah is. That's fine.

You know, just look it up and and and that was part of that

whole time where we went to an easier translation but we also

put more pressure on people to engage it.

Right? And now, you know, when the

shift happened with iPads and phones that's no problem for us.

That's going to, it's not going to be either or it's going to be

both an and that's that's even easier to even easier to find

the book into looking at Gordon's.

Yeah. Been really refreshing to see

people here, people from other Traditions that come.

And they're like, I understand, I like this.

This is great. Where did you get this?

Is this a, they'll say, is this, okay, that's right.

Is this legal get out of it? And then, we can, the rumor is

that Travelers? Rest has the best Bibles, they

have amazing, but I have five or six in my house from Travelers,

Rest, Mathieu, you work. Now, with a lot of younger

teachers, what are you trying to help them develop as as you kind

of reflect on 30 years, teaching the Bible, You know, it's a lot

of fun as a lot of work you when you're working with a young

teacher, you know, the first thing for them is do they want

to do this and some a lot of times they think they do and

then when they get into it they realize that they don't we just

fine, you know. So helping someone figure out is

this what I really want to get my time too because it takes

more time than you think and it's not just oil is super

emotional. It's a super emotional

experience and that's complicated for all of us.

I mean, if you're emotionally available as a person, then how

do you rein that in and not become self-indulgent?

And always talking about what you feel in front of people, if

you're more stoic like, I am or was and still am.

Then it's hard to accept, how do you access those feelings?

You have access to them and to share them with other people how

much how far. And so, you You're helping a guy

discerns, this way. He want to be a part of, or

young lady. Is this?

What she really wants to do? And then here's all the work

that it takes, here's how much time you have to spend alone.

You have to spend a significant amount of your life alone.

Alone, Reading Alone, studying alone, thinking, and half the

job is learning how to understand the Bible.

And then the other half of the job is learning how to present

it to other people so that they want to hear it.

And so most folks who get in this game, really want to study

Study but they don't really enjoy the process of making it

accessible to other people. And so, finding that odd young

man or young woman, who wants to study, who wants to be alone to

think and reflect, who wants to dig down and find the principles

and the illustrations and the applications that they can share

with other people that cause the scriptures to come alive to

them. That is not real common.

So then when you find that person and you're, you're having

to give, they have to have Certain number of reps so you

got to get them on stage, you got to get them into a Bible

study, you got to get them teaching student ministry,

that's an easy place to go, and then you're having to give real

time feedback and you know, we're on the student Retreats

and when it's over, we're Gathering up.

And we're like, okay, that was super confusing.

I mean, it was all good and then you got to this thing and I

think your illustration kind of contradicted your point and

you're like, oh my gosh, I can't leave it to that.

I was like, yeah, so it's okay, it's okay, sorry because we're

all so fragile, you know, I want to hear good.

Back, I think I want to hear negative feedback but I really

don't because it makes me feel so exposed and so vulnerable.

So, it is this weird exercise and intellectual growth,

emotional growth, Peggy Noonan who wrote speeches for?

Ronald Reagan would say the art of public speaking is becoming

more self-aware and less self-conscious all the same time

and that is true. This is who I am.

This is what I think about this passage is what I think God

saying that's how it makes me feel.

I wanted to tell makes you feel that way and at the same time

not being super self-conscious. Fight, these people are now

looking into my life going. He's really weird.

Like he likes the Deer Hunter. He likes to pump gas this way

because whenever you're giving illustrations, you're revealing

who you are, and what your life is, you being very vulnerable.

So, it is a complicated little process, and but God is raising

up new people to communicate all the time.

And it's a joy to watch them learn and watch them, get

better. And, and there is this spiritual

component where God just does something and There's this human

contribution that we make, where you have to work, really hard to

get to what the point is and to make it available to people.

So why is plurality of teaching important for us is the church

in the beginning, it was important because we believed it

was important to not just hear the scripture sifted through one

personality that this personality was really helpful.

Say mine, this other personality That's going to be helpful to

hear it through a person who has these kinds of gifts that's

going to be helpful and it's going to reach different people

but it's an even not reaching different people.

It's going to hit different sides of the same person and

awakens something differently. You know?

Like my kids, if you ask my kids, some most of them have

been through internship but they've at least been a part of

different classes. You ask my kids almost to a

person who's your favorite teacher at Grace Church, they'll

say, Scott Mozingo. This just happened a couple

weeks ago. And my son, he was just like, I

mean, he's like talking about something and it's like exactly

what I'm thinking, you know, like I mean, a lot of my

teaching is I'm dragging you into what I'm thinking, and this

is a different kind of intuition, you know, that with

different teachers have and this person is more shepherding, this

person's more directional. This person is more pastoral.

I mean, there's just all kinds of nuances to it and it's just

important to have God's word sifted through different

personalities so that people can grow well that That's good.

I mean, I still think that's a very valid reason but now we

know because we as America has evolved, we there's always been

celebrity culture but now everything's about celebrity

culture. So now to have a church be

healthy because it's not just latched onto one iconic person

or personality that turns out to be just as important is the

original reason. And we, I mean, I thought about

that a little bit and our elders.

We thought about that a little bit, but nails.

It turns out it's a big deal. It's a big deal to have other

people be able to speak and our people will be able to Humble

themselves and say, this may not be my first choice of teacher,

but I'm here to learn. I'm here to receive from God,

not receive from this person, and I think that's important,

and I was speaking Grace City this past weekend, doing a

little parenting thing down there for will plunk and gray

City Church on Saturday and I taught for like three sessions

and Long long long and but in the attitude of those folks who

I don't know, like I knew a couple of them but 60 people in

the room and there you could tell they had been taught but

they were teachable and they were ready to receive from old

guy, that's very generational, they're ready to receive and I

think that having multiple teachers helps with that it

teaches us to be able to receive what God has from whoever's

communicating and not and then the church doesn't rise and fall

on me when I get hit by the ice. Cream truck then we could keep

going. It's Gerard.

Our body can keep going. You know.

Alright last question for you today.

Matt, what's your favorite book of the Bible?

And why? Mmm, you know, I'd give you to

Genesis because everything is in there.

It's just it, everything is in there, the beginnings in there,

in a way, the end is in there, the gospels in there, so many

real people dealing with the same things.

I mean, it is the most comprehensive is amazing study.

It has all this theological and relational stuff going on.

That is absolutely intriguing. And then Ruth, There's just

nothing like it literarily. I mean, it is the language.

How the language is used? What it says about.

God, what it says about her? Her loss, Naomi's loss, Ruth

commitment, Boaz is ability. I mean, it the pictures it does

for us that it gives us on the gospel.

And and it's not just this heavenly thing.

I mean it's so earthy. The when Ruth gets back that

first morning and her mom is her mother-in-law's, not very happy

person to be around and Ruth gets up the first day and goes

to work. It's just I mean that is

fascinating to me and then God Is Watching and God makes sure

that Bo has seized her and she goes from Full to loss to full

Naomi does and Ruth's in the middle of that.

I mean it is it might be if there's a perfect piece of

literature out there, it's got to be in the top.

Two or three. Well it is the most cohesive

well-written thing that I've ever read.

And I you know I never get tired of reading it.

Read it forwards. Read it backwards.

Three chapter four, The reach out to three, then you have to

each other one. Is this a very interesting

experience is it is Justin. Bobby is the best piece of

literature ever written. It's just one man's opinion.

That's awesome. Yeah.

Thanks man. I was great.

Yeah. Well, as we wrap up today's

conversation, we want to thank you for joining us.

If you have questions or want access to additional resources,

be sure to check out our podcast page located in the show notes.

And if we can help answer any questions about this episode or

want us to discuss something in a future episode, please visit

our podcast page and click on ask Kris and Scott and will

reach out to you. Hey, thanks for joining us today

and we look forward to joining you on the next episode.