EP 40: Parenting Students with Matt and Ashley Gaymon

Just being reminded that it's a long game, parenting students.

In some ways it goes really fast, but it's a long game.

And the importance of keeping them talking, if I can keep them

talking, and I mean like really talking about what they're

thinking, what they're feeling, what they're frustrated about or

what they're scared about or whatever that is.

That's always been my first goal.

Well, welcome back to the Grace Church Podcast.

Today, we are talking parenting teenagers with Matt and Ashley

Gayman. We're also joined here in the

studio by Whitney Manus, our director for this podcast.

And welcome, Whitney, tell us your relationship to the world

of teenagers. Yeah, I do not have any of my

own, but I am very fortunate to lead a group of junior girls

here at the Pelham campus and I've had some of them for about

four years. Started with them in 7th grade

and then we added on a few freshman year, so it's been a

lot of fun. I love the group.

That's sweet. That's awesome.

So Whitney's here to add her insight.

And Matt and Ashley, you have been at this teenage game for a

little while. So tell us about your family.

Tell us about your connection to the church, what you do outside

of the church, and yeah, just give us a little orientation to

all things gaming. Yeah, well, so Ashley and I have

been at Grace since a little before we got married, so we

just celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary.

Let's go. Congrats.

So we've benefited in many ways by being a part of Grace as we

figured out how to be newlyweds, how to be new parents, how to be

better workers, better parents, you know, how to think through

some of that. So our family, we have 4 kids.

Maggie is 16, care grades 15, Oliver is 11, and then Hope is

7. So we have some high school,

some middle school, and low elementary.

I've been leading Ashley. Ashley and I both started

leading student ministry when Maggie started in 7th grade.

So we started in 24/7 through 7th and 8th grade.

I moved up as Maggie moved up in the high school.

I moved up in the Forge. Or Ashley circled back as Kerry

Gray started 24/7 and did another round of 7th and 8th

grade. She's got a heart for the middle

schoolers, apparently. That's awesome.

And so now, yeah, I'm leading a group of Forge junior boys now

on the Pelham campus. I think it's it is Paul Tripp

who famously coined the the the name of his book age of

opportunity. When we think about teenagers,

not thinking about it as something terrible season to be

avoided, but to really look at it as a place to see spiritual

formation where it can really, really bring about fruit.

And so one of the reasons why we wanted to to bring you guys in

is because you're you're parenting two teenagers.

You're also closely connected with our high school ministry.

And so we just wanted to have a conversation.

Have you encourage the parents that are listening on some of

the good, some of the challenges, some of the things

you're seeing as leaders. But let's just start in the in

the game and household. What are some ways that you feel

like you've been able to engage your kids and ultimately direct

them to to biblical truth in this age of opportunity, if you

will? Yeah.

So I would say kind of big picture, I would say that as

we've been thinking through this and talking with each other and

with our girls, I think that the the conclusion I kind of came to

was we are all broken people trying to disciple and lead

broken people. And so when we, when we're

trying to particularly work around issues or problems we're

having, I think it's important for us to remember first to look

to Scripture into God and then to look to community.

So I think for us, it's been demonstrating how we need our

community as Matt and I need our community desperately.

And then just showing that to our family.

And hey, we've, we've talked to this person, we talked to this

person, we've looked at this Scripture and just living that

out day-to-day. Yeah.

And so you actually sat the girls down.

You guys had a little little interview with the girls in

preparation for this interview, and you just ask them some

questions. What kind of stuff did you find

out, Matt? Yeah, I think if there's one

take away from this conversation, it's, hey, maybe

ask these questions to your kid, your student, because it seems

like something we should have done along the way.

But it was really cool knowing that we're oh, we we're going to

be talking about what we've done with our kids, man, how have we

done? What's my kids perspective on

how we've done and what's been helpful and what was not

helpful. And so sitting down with them

and talking outside of a parenting moment, outside of a

specific issue or situations like, hey, there's nothing on

the table right now. Here's a question.

What have we done that has helped you in any way as you've

grown in your faith and in your own spiritual formation and.

For them to go, what's the catch?

What's the catch? Yeah, yeah, there's hang on, are

you a narc? What what is this all about?

But it was really cool to hear that we did it separately.

OK. So conversation with Maggie,

conversation with Kerry Grace, just to get their thoughts on.

OK what? What would you say is the most

helpful thing or what do you feel like you wish maybe we had

done differently or we we would handle differently?

So that was super cool. I would encourage anybody that's

a good place to start is hey, I, I care about you and your

discipleship and I'm trying to do the best I can.

I tell my kids this all the time as they get in each new phase.

I've never done this before, just like you've never done this

before. So we're figuring this out.

So just to have a conversation outside of any situation and

say, hey, how's it going? What are we doing that's helping

and how can we help you better? Yeah.

So what did you find out? So I think the the biggest take

away from me or from the girls as they kind of articulated back

to us being in community within the church, they they quickly, I

think understood, OK, we are going to church.

That's not a up for up for discussion, but it was cool to

hear them talk about, OK, but we saw you in community group and

the way y'all were talking about things, praying for people,

getting prayed for. There were marking moments along

the way where they realized, OK, now you're serving.

But I hear y'all talking about things that you're talking about

with the folks you serve with. You're getting perspectives,

you're getting input, you're asking questions like even for

Maggie, as we've unfortunately had to engage the conversation

around dating, What does that? Look like what a tragedy voice.

It was cool for her to be able to say even the fact that as I'm

talking to her about what I'm thinking through and my

perspective on it and I'm sharing with her, OK, well

here's here's some folks that your mom and I have talked to.

Here's what they're saying and here's some some examples or

here's some thoughts or here's and they and they realize, oh,

they're working through this. They really are working through

a process here. So now we can talk.

Now I can be a conversation and not just my dad just doesn't

want me to date or he wants it to look the way he wants it to

look. They believe and they understand

we're in community just like we need them to be.

And so then following up and asking, you know, as I see them

step into a new role of serving that they chose to do.

And so I just see what that does for you and mom being plugged in

and having people around you that can speak in and help.

And I want that in my life. So that that was cool to hear

back from. Them, yeah.

And we're, we're certainly not trying to offer any kind of

formula or secret insight. We're not saying the Gamans have

cracked the code, but when you do think about things that you

have done as a as a family individually with the girls over

the years, what are what are a few more practical things that

that stand out that you have seen bear some fruit?

Yeah. And so I'm going to back up a

little bit about the crack of the code thing.

Another thing that was obvious, as we would have been talking as

a family and have as I've been thinking about and praying

through this parenting students idea, I just kind of am

overwhelmed at the thought of Matt and I are both from

families of a long line of Christian believers and we've

always been in church and we've been heavily involved.

Our parents are still together. They love the Lord, they love

us. So if anybody should have a

completely full toolbox, it should be us.

And yet this parenting thing is so overwhelming.

So we all need help from the Lord and then from community as

well. No, that's such a, that's such a

good reminder, that posture of humility and then being willing

to ask and being willing to expect that God could actually.

These are brokenness, yeah. Yeah.

And going back to the, you know, the first part of community

being being such an important aspect of that.

And I do think it's easy for parents to to, to be

discouraged. I think it's easy for parents to

compare and to look around at, at other kids.

And, and a lot of that is, is part of the performance trap of

our culture. And So what we're trying to do

today is just get beneath some of those trappings and really

talk about cultivating the relationship.

And so Matt, you had some some thoughts on how to really

cultivate the relationship, particularly with your.

Girls, yeah, I think, and I am certain it's from some of the

the parents and folks that we're in a relationship with that have

spoken into us along the way. But just being reminded that

it's a long game, parenting students, in some ways it goes

really fast, but it's a long game.

And the importance of keeping them talking.

And if I can keep them talking, and I mean like really talking

about what they're thinking, what they're feeling, what

they're frustrated about or what they're scared about or whatever

that is. That's always been my first

goal. And the only way they're going

to be willing to talk is if they really understand that I truly

want to know and I really am listening.

Even talking with them prior to this, having them say you're not

just jumping in to fix it in the moment all the time.

It really is a conversation. Now there's times where one of

my daughter's has stopped me mid conversation and said, hey, if

it's, you know, they're, they're asking if they can go do

something. And I'm not sure 'cause I'm not

100% confident of the environment and what all's going

to be going on. And she just stopped me as I'm

asking some questions. He's like, do you already know

the answer to this? Because if you already know that

I can't go, just tell me no and let's just be done.

And I said no. I really do want to hear how

you're thinking, why you're wanting to go and how you're

thinking through it. I'm going to make a decision,

but I want to hear from you. And once she understood that I'm

really working through making a decision, she's willing to talk

and then she wouldn't get, but I could tell it was a pivotal

moment for her. And if this isn't a real

conversation, let's don't have it.

If you're just trying. This was her words as I remember

it was. If you're just trying to get me

to arrive at the conclusion, you've already made she.

Didn't want to just tell me. There's nothing like a teenager

to sniff out like a fake, a fake tone of like, you're not being

100 with me right now, dad, Come on.

That's right. So, you know, for me recognizing

this is a long game and I think if they can understand I care

more about their soul and their heart and their relationship

with Christ and our family or whatever relationships, I care

more about that than any immediate circumstance that's

helping us go a little deeper. Then they're more willing to

engage. But that that's always been my

goal is how do I keep them talking?

And our girls are different and they want to engage differently

and on different levels and speeds.

And so you, you know, one, she's ready to talk at 11:00, probably

not before then at night. By the way, PMPM by the way.

So, you know, you just have to figure out how can I get them in

real conversation? Yeah.

And do you guys divide some responsibilities?

Are there natural connections with the with the girls that you

tend to lean towards? Yeah, for sure.

I mean just the schedule of the day provides for some of that

because I'm a teacher. So I'm on, you know, I'm more of

the day-to-day address issues in the moment kind of thing.

And a lot of times since there's four kids at our house, we have

to move quickly to the next thing.

So it's kind of like, OK, let's just hit at the surface and then

I text Matt, I'm like, OK, when you get home, we need to dig a

little deeper around this, this and this.

But and then I'm also I'm a little bit more the have fun one

I think of the two of us. So, you know, I'm like, I do

love teenagers. I love it.

And I think it's because I haven't matured a lot past that

level in some ways. So I'm like, yeah, let's go see

the new Inside Out movie or, you know, whatever and let's go play

pickleball if it's in the summer and I'm not having to get up

early the next day. So there's some different

dynamics to our personalities. But then also just the way our

schedule works out to where I feel like Matt's kind of the

one, I mean, he's a little bit better communicator anyway, but

he is the one that's thankfully willing to lead in that way.

And we'll get to the deeper heart issues around some of the

more like fires you put out throughout the day.

But you're in communication about that.

Oh yeah, Like I see this going on.

It's probably something deeper, but you know, I got to take

Oliver to football or whatever the case is and we'll need to

talk about it later. Yeah, both.

Both in our in our prep conversations with our girls,

they both recognize we engage them in different ways and they

appreciate that is different. So it it meaning Ashley is with

them more just by schedules and the way that works out.

And so she is handling things in the moment way more than I am

because I'm not there when it happens.

Believe it or not, sometimes I have issues over sharing clothes

and that can be a thing. Girls with clothes.

Or or whatever it might be. Yeah, there's there's a blow up

in a moment and Ashley's just got to respond and speak into

that. And then she's letting me know

here's what's happening and OK, what is a pattern or what was at

a level that there's something else going on.

My girls know we're going to have a when we're going to have

a conversation and it's going to be a bigger conversation.

My hope is that they understand is this isn't a dad lecture.

It is a conversation of let's think through the what's going

on here. And so, you know, you know, they

they were quick to point out it's nice that it's not both of

us in the moment, always bang, bang, bang, hitting them with do

this or think about this or correct that or whatever.

But it's also not both of us turning everything into a big,

deep, winding conversation. It's, it's, it's a balance.

We don't get it right. All the time for.

Sure. I will say I bet they wish

sometimes he was putting on the fires because he is more steady

and logical, whereas I get a little more emotional in the

moment and I'm like, you don't love me, you didn't pick up your

shirt or whatever. Well, I mean, it's interesting

finding that balance. We're not not wasting the

everyday opportunities to really connect them to how they're

thinking about God and how they're thinking about others,

which is just a big part of what it means to follow Jesus.

But then not turning everything into a lecture.

I mean, I think finding that balance with your unique

personalities, the personalities of the kids, the season of life

that they're in and the season of spiritual growth that they're

in. I mean, I think that's one one

reason why it can be so exhausting.

And, and parents just say, either just tell me what to do

or just absolve me and you do it for me, you know, small group

leaders because I, I can't, I can't do this.

And speak to a little bit about fear based parenting because

you're talking about having a natural curiosity and a

relationship with your kids. I feel like that gets snuffed

out a lot by parents who are just, they're just freaked out

by everything. Can you talk, Can you talk about

that a little bit? I can think of one specific

example. Since Matt already mentioned the

dating thing. I really just wanted to kind of

put an end to it, like don't ever date kind of thing with

Maggie. And I remember somebody telling

me, I think it was Bill White. He was like.

You're. Going to oopsie, you're going to

wound them by, you know, putting your experience on them, you

know, just being so fearful of, well, what if this happens?

What if this happens? What if they don't make a

decision and they're going to make mistakes?

We're going to make mistakes. So I think that was a good

reminder for me to give me a little more freedom and trusting

the Lord with things that I don't have, you know, speaking

wisdom into it, a scripture truth, and then just being like,

OK, you know, got to trust God that he's going to protect them,

you know? Yeah, that is always, even as a

leader, like I feel like I'm just constantly reminding

myself, like, God loves them more than I do.

He knows them more than I do. He, like, just really cares, you

know, And like, it's just out of my hands at a certain point.

So I mean, if that's at a leading level, I can't even

imagine for a parent, you know, how big that is.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think fear and some of

this even as a forge leader now, and Ashley and I talked about

this leading in student ministry and engaging intentionally with

students that we're really trying to pursue, how that even

has helped us on the parenting side.

Like, OK, if if I'm if I'm noticing this one kid has not

spoken and I haven't heard from him and I don't know what's

going on. I really want to know, am I that

intentional at home? Are we just going through and I

have I really gotten to my own kids heart the way I have here?

But I think there's an there's an element of from a fear

perspective of not knowing one. I don't want to know if things

are bad, but I also don't want to get caught in not knowing an

answer or not knowing what to do.

I think it's even, we talked about this all the time and even

in sharing your faith, people are hesitant to share their

faith because what if they ask a question and I can't answer it?

And so it just shuts the whole conversation down when in

reality we talk about this being a long game.

You got to just start by understanding where we are and

let's have a conversation, understand what you're dealing

with. We'll figure it out together.

If there's something I don't know, we can engage your

leaders. We can engage, you know, any

number of folks to help, but we have to get past that the fear

piece of where is this going to go?

I don't know where it's going to go all the time, but that can't

stop me from figuring out where we are.

And then we can work on where does it need to go.

So that that's one way I think. Yeah, we've we've said it in

student ministry a lot for our parents.

And I try to remind myself on, you know, any number of topics

recently having talked with our 11 year old when it comes to

sexual. Brokenness and trying to prepare

him and think through what does it mean to manage your energy.

Any of that. I have to pretend like it's not

awkward, you know, just to have it.

But if he doesn't feel like it's awkward, then I guess this isn't

awkward. I guess we can talk about this.

I can learn from my dad. I can't ask him questions

instead of depending on my fellow middle school buddies to

be my source. But again, that's just us having

to get over our own fear of am I equipped for this?

You know, we, we say it all the time, if we need an ounce of

knowledge, we need a pound of courage just to start and go.

There are resources to help figure it out.

And and it's we, we tend to think it's the opposite, like I

need a pound of knowledge and we discount the courage that it

takes to move towards our kids. Yes.

And so I think that's, I think that's a good, a good saying to

just remember. So then let's talk just about

the challenges just identifying with with some of the parents

out there. We've we've alluded to a few,

but can you think of some of the things that are the the most

difficult in the current season that you're in?

Probably the first thing that comes to mind for me is our

girls saying we're asking like, what have we not done well or

what's been hard about our parenting?

And they're kind of like, well, you're a little strict on the

dress code is what they said. And so I was like, yes, like

modesty is hard. It is so hard.

And I said so just so you know, we're not going to change that

code, dress code, but we, I think it's valuable for other

parents to know this is happening in all households in

our culture because it is not in style to be modest right now.

And it's particularly hard on these girls because you know,

they want to, they want to be dressing in style.

And. Yeah.

And so, I mean, there's been many occasions where I've been

talking to one of them and be like, I don't want you to dress

older than you are, you know, like I don't want you to have to

look frumpish, but I don't want you to be in style.

But you still have to have some guidelines of modesty.

And so we can work on it together.

And it's a hard search. It is a hard search, but that is

one way that I just want to encourage everybody to keep

fighting the good fight on that one.

But it's hard. And do you think the girls, do

they, do they think they understand?

Do they understand where you're coming from?

Why you think it's important for them to be honest?

Sometimes and then sometimes they just I think think I'm

being maybe maybe a little bit hard on them over critical kind

of thing. But you know, hopefully in time

it'll be that hindsight I can look back and be like, thanks

mom. Thanks, Dad.

Well, and I think that could be one of the things too, where if

they know that you're in community, you're talking to

other parents, other parents are having the same issues, you

know, with their 16 and 15 year old daughters, then they don't

feel, they don't feel like they're being singled out, you

know, but they do understand that our our parents are, are

open to dialogue with other parents and they're open to

being wrong. I think that's hard.

I think that's hard. Some parents would rather be

right than be in relationship with their kids.

They wouldn't say it that way, but I think they're so worried

that they're going to screw their kids up and mess them up.

Or maybe they're worried about whether people think that they

pursue rightness over relationship.

And also the relationship component is hard.

You know, it's hard when you're dealing with your emotions,

you're dealing with your teenagers emotions.

So sometimes it's just easier just to go through the motions,

right, right. And so anyway, I appreciate it.

And usually it's at the most inopportune time, right?

You know, like everybody's trying to get out the door and

you have to be like, switch it out, you know, that kind of

thing. So that's when you got to put

out the fire and we'll talk about it later and kind of have

to just put that on the back burner.

Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah.

Matt, what comes to your mind when you think about some of the

challenges? Yeah.

I, I think for me, finding that balance between what, what we

talked about earlier, when is this a bigger conversation that

we need to sit down and we, we need to go deeper and ask some

questions and really go, I think, you know, with our older

two being young women, you know, that's what one of them told me

as we were talking. She was like, I appreciate, I

said, I know we have conversations that you don't

want to have where I'm pursuing and I'm coming in, I'm saying,

Hey, we are going, we, we got to talk about this.

And I was like, how, how do you feel about that?

And she's, you know, this is the mystery, right?

Well, sometimes it's great because it's helpful and I know

that I need to talk through it, but sometimes I just need you to

understand why I'm upset and why I'm hurt or why I'm sad and

let's just leave it. Leave it there for now.

So there's a balance there that we're always trying.

I'm trying to find in how big? How big is this moment?

But then that's where I, yeah, I try to remind myself of.

It's a long game. We got more conversations to

come. Everything doesn't have to get

cleared up and fixed in this moment.

She needs to know I care. She needs to know.

That's why I want to talk is I'm not Mr. Fix it, man, but I care

about her. And I don't get that right.

I'm sure I frustrate them at times with my, you know, trying

to have a conversation. They're not ready.

I think I can live with trying to have too many conversations

instead of not having enough. Yeah, that's good.

But trying to. And that's, again, that's why it

was helpful even have this conversation with.

Let's get a gauge, right? How am I doing in that

department? What?

What's my batting average? Yeah, well, when I think about

what does it look like to have a relationship with adult, adult

children, 'cause our kids, our youngest is just turned 18, have

221 year olds. And so we're quickly moving into

that, that whatever that phase of life is, right, that season

of life where you're trying to cultivate a relationship with an

adult child. And then I, I didn't, though now

looking back, I didn't think when would that start?

Like when would we transition? I just thought of them as

teenagers and then going off to college, I did not think of them

in relationship to them being adults and us having a different

kind of relationship. And so sometimes I, I think we

just don't have imagination around how that relationship is

going to grow and be cultivated and develop.

And it's going to be trial and error and it's going to be

different for for every child. And unfortunately, in the

teenage years, it's probably going to result revolve around

some key important issues and where you're still, you are

their parents, you will always be their parents, but they're in

your household and you're giving them rules or you're reinforcing

why we do things or you're calling them to action.

But just thinking through it as a transitional and transitional

phase with a, with an idea of, hey, where do we want this thing

to go? And if, how do we think it's

going to get there? You know, Whitney, does that

make sense to you thinking about you now as mid 20s and your

relationship to your to your parents?

Yeah. And I would definitely say like

that transition that you're talking about, I mean, it's

probably around 10 years, you know, in like every milestone

that you had of going to college, graduating college,

like getting on your own insurance, getting a job,

getting your own paycheck, like each of those is its own little

mini transition of you just becoming more of an adult.

I think the challenge is, is especially as they're in those

later years of being a teenager, like you're trying to think

future, but especially as a teenager, like your brain just

doesn't get that far. You know, like, I think I, my

parents dropped me off at college and I was like, I don't

think I was going to make it to this point.

You know, like I couldn't think past senior graduation.

And so that is the challenge of like really like building the

plane in the air as it's going and finding it along the way.

But I mean, the relational piece is so critical.

And I mean, I'm still in it. So I still am developing with my

parents and they've been very kind just to navigate that and

include me in conversations of this is what we'd like this

relationship to continue looking like.

And we want you to have freedom, but we are still your parents

and we want to weigh in. And it's just, it's not clean.

There is that formula. It's not there.

Doesn't exist. And I think the point would be

that that does start right? Yeah, I think one of the things

that I've tried to tell my kids all the time as a way to engage

them in conversation. Whatever we need to be talking

about is whatever is going on, we can make a plan and and

started some of that conversation is around even just

being willing and open to confessing then or dealing with

an issue. What wherever we are, know that

my my focus is all right, so what's our plan from here

forward so that we can actually engage and talk the way that

applies to here? I think to your question about

transitioning into that longer term relationship with our

growing adult children, if they can see us as a viable resource

to help figure something out to help make a plan.

It doesn't mean I have to have all the answers.

I think my dad did a great job with us, me and my sisters

growing up, of talking us through his thinking and how

he's thinking about something. And I think that's where I've

picked up some of that. And I always found that helpful.

He wasn't just saying don't do this.

He would say, I've always wondered what the motivation is,

why someone, you know, like he would go into and like, OK, I

haven't thought about it that way.

It's not just a rule, it's a logical conclusion for him.

And so engaging at that level because then I think we can stay

relevant. Hopefully, if they recognize,

OK, whatever's going on, I know they will think through it with

me and they'll bring some wisdom hopefully, and they'll bring

some godly counsel. But they're going to be willing

to engage and think through it. That's the kind of thing that

hopefully can continue on even as adults as they're facing new

things. Yeah, the ability to be like a

good sounding board, like because I'm at a point where I'm

going to my parents and I'm like, I think I already know the

decision that I'm going to make, but let me talk it through and

you just see if there's anything that you can think of that I am

not going to think of and then redirect me if needed.

And usually it's just it's the practice of let me like try to

be an adult for a second and then you let me know how I'm

doing and we'll see how it goes kind of thing.

But that's such a gift. So staying relevant with your

kids and especially staying spiritually relevant.

And I think that that can be a challenge for parents.

And so let's just talk about and try to encourage our parents to

to be followers of Jesus that their that their children would

want to imitate. You guys see a, a, a large

perspective from the position of being leaders in our largest

high school ministry. What are some successes that

you've seen as you've been able to partner with parents that can

motivate other parents? And then what are some of the

some of the challenges and, and how would you want to encourage

those parents who are listening? I think so.

I'm going to back up a little bit.

I know that we're mostly talking about students, so I guess that

would be middle school and high school, but with us having such

different ages in our household and Matt talking about like

engaging and talking to them, asking good questions.

We parent our girls who we know they both love Jesus and have

the Holy Spirit living in them very differently than we do

Oliver and Hope. I think they're at a great point

in their journey. They're asking great questions,

they're curious, but I'm just not confident of that in them.

So the parenting looks very different.

So speaking to parents out there, if you have a child that

you're not sure they know Jesus, this could look very different

for them than it does for us with our girls because they just

already have that relationship. So, but as far as like leading a

group, so I just finished up a group that I had 7th and 8th

graders in 24/7 and our last retreat, it was kind of

interesting because I was asking these really direct hard

questions to my girls in my group.

And then I was like, it dawned on me, I have not asked this to

my daughter, you know? And so when I came home and

after we had some time to process for a couple days, I

just sat her down and asked her a couple of really direct

things. And speaking about that fear

again, I kind of like, you know, you have to brace yourself a

little bit, Like, OK, it's going to be OK no matter what they

tell me because it'll be OK. The word can redeem anything.

And so no matter what the answer was, and it was a pretty

thankfully, a pretty bad, the grace of God, a pretty easy one

to deal with because she wasn't dealing with this specific

struggle. But I think it's important for

us to be available for them to tell us about those really hard

struggles they're going through. So anyway, that was that off

track a little bit in my no. No.

So basically you want to kind of practice as a parent what we are

encouraging the leaders to do. And so leaders are asking and

leaning in and we always encourage our students to, hey,

go talk to your parents about this, but they may not be.

So to the parents that are listening, just know that that

your student leaders are driving your students back to you.

And so I would ask that you do two things, one, that you'd be

willing to receive them and two, that you initiate with them

because they may not initiate with you.

And I think those are prime opportunities that our church is

trying to, to facilitate to foster that type of relationship

that you were talking about for the long, long term.

Get them talking, keep them talking.

Be a good listener, Matt and, and, and be really, really open

and not just driving towards some type of decision that you

want, but really be in a, in a real relationship.

So questions can help with that. Yeah, and I would say too, like

as a leader, a big goal for me is to lend as much credibility

to parents as I can. You know, like for better, for

worse. I'm like maybe hearing it from a

26 year old, we'll hit them a little bit differently than it

does their parents. But like, ultimately, I'm want

to point my girls to Christ as the ultimate, the source of

truth. But you know, it's, it's easy,

as we all did when we were teenagers, to complain about

your parents and they just don't get it and all this kind of

stuff. And I really do try to encourage

my girls. It's like, hey, just think about

what it's like to be a parent. First of all, to keep your kids

alive, like bare minimum, you know, but then just how they're

trying to work with you through all of these things that you're

navigating and like, it's just really hard.

And so you just got to give him grace.

Like just as you as we want you to receive grace from Christ

that he's had for you for all the mistakes that you've made.

And there is so much redemption to be had.

Like he holds that out for your parents too, Like Jesus died for

your parents to not be able to get it right all the time.

And so I think that's that's my goal and I hope that that is

helpful. I really appreciate that.

Well, I mean, what a powerful tool for your kids to be able to

offer grace to their parents. Yeah.

And for parents to be able to offer grace to their kids.

I mean, you know, it's a it's a gift, right?

Matt, can you think of a couple stories of some some examples

have you seen of this partnership going really well?

Yeah, I think I've had a few instances over the years leading

24/7 and in Forge where parents have reached out to say, hey,

here's here's something that we are working on at home or I

don't know what's going on with him.

Matt. He seems really distant and shut

down and I can't get him to talk.

Can can y'all grab breakfast or something and just see, you know

what's going on If you can get something out of him.

I love being pulled in and that cuz in Group you would never

know. I don't know how they are at

home. I know how they tell me things

are, but you wouldn't know what's going on or man, we just

had a blow up and I am as a father, that was I'm really

upset and I've, I've made that known, but I need you to engage

with him too, because I, I recognize I might not even be

hearing him out because I was so upset in the moment.

And now that takes a lot of awareness and humility to pull

in his son's leader and admit that and say that.

But man, the work that we were able to get done and then see

some movement and see some restoration, you know, see some

things happen that was cool. Or even a mom that reached out

and said, hey, my son tried out for this team.

He didn't make the team. Has he shared that in small

group? And no, he has not.

But it's helpful for me to know what's going on with him to be

able to engage in some ways and I can steer some of our group

conversation so that he can hear from other guys in the group

that maybe have had something that didn't go their way and

that can be helpful. And so it helps us know how to

work more in the moment. The context is so critical, you

know, like for a mom who's like, hey, just broke up with a

boyfriend this week or even just made bad grade on a test and

it's been tough. Like it's just helps me to

respond differently because sometimes I'm going to come into

a situation and, you know, be like, all right, hey, girl, I

got a little bit of an attitude today, but if I just have a

little context, it's like, it's been tough, you know?

And I would love to think that I would hold out that much grace

all the time, but it does. It just helps us to put the

pieces together and ask the right questions to help them

process through those things. Yeah.

I think that, I mean, like Matt was saying with our, our kids,

just keep them talking. Well, it's, it's that way for

everybody. So just communicate, communicate

the Lord, communicate to your community.

But especially with these teenagers, like tell this to

your leaders, Tell this to friends that you feel like are

on the same page and have the same values and are seeking the

Lord. You know, like get some insight,

not just from us as parents, because we can have some blind

spots because we're so crazy about them or we're so

frustrated with them. Or there could be a variety of

things that you know. Training that vulnerability

muscle, you know, because I, it's just easier when you're

younger and you're like, I mean, I'll tell anybody everything and

whatever comes into my head, I'll just say out loud.

And that really is such a valuable skill for them to carry

with them throughout all their different kinds of community

later in life. So we want to partner with

families. There's no way we can replace

the work that's happening in the home.

Parents are critical. They're primary disciple makers

of their kids. We want to encourage you as

parents. We want to ask that you just

pursue God with your heart, soul, mind and strength and that

you let your students see you do that.

And that will be a compelling witness.

And they will have to reckon with that.

Whatever they think and whatever they want for their own life,

just like Ashley said, they're going to have to make those

decisions. But when you are leading, that

is so compelling to them and so. Matt and Ashley, just as we kind

of wrap up here, any last thoughts for the parents out

there that are listening that you want to just just share with

them, encourage them? Yeah, I mean, I've said it

already, but recognizes a long game and the goal is to keep

them talking. And that means you have to be

willing to listen and you have to be vulnerable yourself.

I mean, I think even just the exercise of asking them what's

going on, but knowing going into it that you might have to share

what's going on with you as a way to get them to open up and

what's going on with them. If you haven't been engaging

with your student in this way, even you know what I asked my

Forge group recently. All right, tell me something

that you are learning, that God is showing you that you're

learning and growing. How are you growing in your

faith or where's an area that you feel like you need to?

You should have one at least one of those the fact that you're

asking your student that probably means that you feel

like this is an area I need to grow and how I'm just so you

need to tell them, Hey, I I'm trying to be a better resource

for you. I I want to help.

We're in this together. How am I doing and just open and

starting It may if you've not had these kind of conversations,

typically, if they're not just burst into talk to you, you

can't just start making them want to talk to you, but you

might need to talk to them. So and understand your heart in

it is is to connect and be a resource for them.

But again, it's it. It's just a matter of deciding

it needs to happen. Yeah, the to the to the courage

piece more than the the knowledge piece.

No, I love that. Ashley, what about you?

Any last thoughts? I guess just to to point out

that we're all we're all just seeking the Lord and seeking

community and trying to grow, grow closer to him, but help our

kids grow closer to him and become more like him.

And you know, it's just a journey.

And so I'm thankful for Grace student ministry that we have

this resource and we're going to keep pounding the pavement too.

And we're here for people too, if they want to talk to us as

well. Yeah, No, that's great.

That's great. Well, thank you guys for for

coming in. Could I ask you to just pray for

our parents just as we end and we're about to start a new

school year, which brings a whole new set of relationships

and challenges. But like where we started with

opportunities, it brings a whole new set of opportunities to

really spiritually form our students.

And so let's let's pray for them as we start a start a new year.

Father, we, we are so thankful for your faithfulness and your

patience. And even as we think about the

blessings that you've provided in these students that you've

given us to help shepherd and help disciple God, ultimately we

know it's in your hands and that you offer you offer your spirit

to do the work. But God in your, in your plan,

you see a role for us to play. And so I just thank you that we

have that opportunity, even though you know, we'll mess it

up and we're not perfect. We don't have all the answers.

You still want us in the game. And so, God, I just pray that

you would continue to give us courage, wisdom, and patience as

we seek to disciple these students, that we would not be

held back by fear, but we would instead be emboldened by your

spirit at work and the promises that you lay out in front of us.

So God, I just pray for our parents and the conversations

that are happening, the conversations, conversations

that need to happen that you would, you would just give

guidance and wisdom and be in those moments God, and that we

would see these students drawn closer to you.

And as we disciple them, God, you're doing just as much work

in each one of us. And so I pray that you would

give us a hunger for your word for ourselves, that we would be

seeking, seeking your wisdom and your guidance and not looking

for strength within ourselves because we don't have it, that

we would be dependent on you. So we give all this to you and

we praise you because you are worthy of it all, and we lift

all this up in Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you guys. Thank you.