EP 42: Nicaragua Partnership with Fabricio Mendoza and Wes Cavin

Many times we think we serve the Lord because of the degree that

we have because of the title. But first of all, it's looking

for a horror, let me tell you, because sometimes we can't serve

with our titles and degrees. But the first of all is to have

a horror and be willing to enroll in a mission trip, you

know, but being there, as I told you, you can be serving with a

contraction section program. You can be with the children.

So and you can think I have a this type of this degree, how

I'm going to be just with children.

It's about people. Welcome back to the Grace

Members Podcast. We have a special guest with us

in studio today. Fabricio Mendoza is here all the

way from Nicaragua in the States for about 10 days.

And we're lucky enough to have him here to just update us on

some of the ministry that's happening there with CFCI.

And so Fabrizio, welcome. Glad you're here.

Thank you so much. We're so excited to be here with

you. Well, you know, part of what I

wanted to do is Whitney and I are here, we get a chance to

hear some of the stories and and know you more personally, but we

want to introduce you and your ministry to our audience.

And so just tell us a little bit about who is Fabricio and what

is CFCI in Nicaragua? Thank you so much for this time.

So I am Fabricio Mendoza through to your soul.

I met with Claudia since 2003. We have two children's Adele, 16

years old and Jose, 11. So I grew up in the northwest

part of the country. There is a city named

Shenandiga. In fact, Grace Church did the

first mission trip in Nicaragua in that city.

They went straight there. We didn't know.

So they went to our local church.

We didn't know that many, many years ago when I be here sitting

and talking about. Yeah, that's been over 2

decades. Now, yeah, two decades and.

So, so you grew up in in that city.

What was life like for you growing up?

So, you know, I grew up in my family, dysfunctional family,

sadly. But when I was a teenager, I I

met Jesus, you know, I was hungry and needed a real a real

parent, you know, father and I started attending to the church

there and with such desire also to serve as a volunteer.

You know, I was a college student those days and and then

you know, I started working as an accountant and I keep in my

heart that fire and and desire to one day submit my life to as

a full time ministry. So thanks God, he allowed me to

do. No, that's so cool to hear the

ways that he has moved in your life and brought you to where

you are. It's it's wonderful to hear.

Now tell us a little bit about just the vision and the mission

of CFCI. Like what are you guys doing?

What are your goals? Why do you exist?

Yeah. So we have a global vision and

no place without witness. You know, it's about ministry

that focus on needs of the community.

So not church without a vision ministry that help the local

church clarify and fulfill their vision and no person without

hope ministries that help provide hope to horn people and

our our mission is transforming cities by transforming lives.

So we, we keep in mind every day to do what the Lord has tell us

to do, you know, through this vision, which is clear.

And if it's big, you know, it's a huge vision.

So we try to do our best to accomplish, you know, and to

please God with our service. So you're partnering with local

churches? Yeah.

To essentially help help them support their community.

Yes, so that you can have an effective gospel witness that

covers the entire country. How many churches would you say?

I'm sure it changes from time to time.

How many churches does CFCI partner with?

We partner with at least 50 churches, OK and what we are

doing right now and what different programs and

ministries. Yeah.

What types of Tell us a little bit about what those programs,

ministries look like and then we'll jump in and talk

specifically about how Grace has been a part of some of that.

But in general, what are. Yeah.

General, so right there in Nicaragua, you know, we, we work

through 5 main areas we call ministry areas, OK, So pastoral

training, women's ministry, education, youth pastoral

training and health, you know, among of those five areas in

other special programs as the feeding center.

So we run many programs. Can you say this again?

Pastoral training. Pastoral training, women's

ministry, education, education We support local schools through

scholarship and supplies. Pastoral youth and health.

Great. And beside those, we have a

special programs like the feeding center that we run

weekly. Yeah.

And that's for people in need in the community.

They can just how many are you doing?

Is it more like pantry style or people coming in and getting

cooked cooked meals? So we, when we talk about the

feeding center, we prepare the meal in our our office and we

bring to the community to them, because the community is really,

really poor. So they don't have any resources

there. So, but before to give them, you

know, a meal, we make sure we share the gods word with them

because, you know, being hungry is a real need, but doesn't have

a a relationship with God is the biggest thing.

So when we see those people and your spiritual need, yeah as

well. So Fabrizio, you mentioned you

mentioned poverty. Can you give us a little bit of

perspective? I know it's it's dangerous to

speak about the country as a whole, but just for for those

who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about what's the

economic situation like for the country in the ground?

So we we are a third world country and most of the people

live with between two and $3 per day.

So that could help you to have a perspective.

So most of the people it's in poverty there.

We have a tiny upper class and a tiny middle class.

So, and this is Nicaragua currently so.

So I mean, I yes, it does give perspective, but I don't, I

don't think we can really even understand how you would be able

to live on 2 to $3.00 a day. Yeah, because the people don't

leave. The people survive.

This is the real war, you know, People don't have enough to pay

for health interest, for even enough food or housing or gas.

And many people doesn't have a car, you know?

Yeah. This is because I said people

just survive in our country. Yeah.

So the church has a lot of opportunity in an economic

situation like that. So where do you, how do you even

begin? Where do you even know where to

where to start when you are dealing with such impoverished?

Folks, the way how we approach some needs is first of all, you

know, asking the Lord, but also we have many options need, you

know, many. So for us is is like what we

have in our hands, you know, and also it's very important for us

how God provide for us which resources he placing our hands.

So in that way, OK, we have these, we're going to we can do

this program. We can we can do this.

You know, it's according how the Lord bless the ministry, right,

because the need is all everywhere.

So and we are aware that we are not going to accomplish, we're

not going to cover any needs. Right.

So, so whatever gifts, skills, opportunities the churches have,

you just want to use those to be able to be a blessing to the

community. Yeah.

And I think that's something that I have been learning about

our international ministry partners.

And just how do you do that work?

As you do the next right thing, you do the thing in front of

you, you find a physical need, and then you pair it with the

spiritual need and draw the connection between the two.

And I actually had the privilege to go to Nicaragua this January

in 2024 and meet Fabrizio and Claudia and their family and so

many others and just had a really great time and just

really getting to see the expansion of God's church across

the world. And just know we have the Holy

Spirit. You guys have the Holy Spirit.

We are connected across oceans and countries.

And I learned a lot about the Nicaraguan church.

But Fabrizio, what would you like for our church and our

people to know about the Nicaraguan church?

Sure, as a church we love God, you know, we love God and we

love to praise him. You know, where worship is is

very loud and even and even our prayers, you know, you know,

here back in United State at the time, one person pray and leave

the others and they always stay quietly.

But back there if I'm praying, oh man, I need to do loud

because every member, every people we're praying right

beside me. But also we are a church with

hungry to know God and learn more about him.

But also we are a church who need to be teaching in the God's

word. This is something that we lack,

that we miss. So our church doesn't have a lot

of training or a lot discipleship, and this is what

we do with to the pastoral training.

Also to the Grace Church partners you know.

Yeah, yeah. That was actually the reason

that I was there in January. We went to go spend time with

the women of your church, which was such a blessing.

And I think something that I've learned is here in the United

States, we have too many resources.

So I can go to a secular bookstore and find a Christian

section and find, you know, a myriad of options to choose from

to develop my faith. And our church provides a lot of

those as well. But that is just not the case in

most of the world, especially in other languages, and I would say

especially for women as well. So it was cool.

We got to take the Seven Arrows study and walk through that with

the women leaders of CFCI, which was just super sweet.

And I have to give a shout out to Natalie Richard and her team

over at Espanol for spending time to translate a lot of that.

But yeah, what what other fruit have you just seen from those

resources that we've been able to share in our partnership with

the women and for the men? Yes, you know, as great church,

you have been blessing the nation of Nicaragua with many

resources and with, I would say, good theology too.

So we're very thankful. And my team, we try to reproduce

those resources that you already shared with us.

For example, we are doing the third curriculums.

So we are doing the men's round table.

In fact, this coming Monday, we're going to start in a local

church, you know, the study of a man.

He's in a man in his faith, A. Man in his faith, yeah.

And also the a woman's word study.

So we're going to be with men's and clouded with the women's

right there. So we because we trust and we

appreciate the resources are healthy for our church.

You know we use even when when you are not there with us, we

continue using those resources because we know are healthy and

good to keep equipping the local churches.

Yeah. Tell us a little bit about some

of the training. I guess it would be both on the

pastoral training and maybe even some of the next generation

training. What is the the strategy has

been to go to a one specific area multiple times, is that

right? Yeah.

So the goal is to, we say to adapt a region, stay for three

years and three years and go there with partners like Grace,

but also by ourself, you know, if we can be there every month,

you know, working with them. For example, a big piece of this

is when we talk about training pastors and leaders in women and

youth in churches. So with the Grace Church is we

have been doing that for many years.

And for example, right now this year we started in the South of

the country, there is a region named Rivas.

So we're going to, we, we were there in March and you like to,

and we're playing in this next month, November, Dodis Bickel, 2

ladies more and two men are going and we're going to be

there in Rivas. So training pastors and leaders

women's because we need we understand this is what the

church need to the training. So if you, if you we adopt A

region, make a three-year commitment, send a number of

different people to teach both pastors and church leaders how

many churches, for example, might come together and be

represented in one of those regions.

We can. We can have 30 or 40 churches.

Wow. Right there.

Yeah. That's great.

And this number could be growing, you know, while we are

in touch with him through the time.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And I think Whitney, what you said about we have so many

resources that sometimes we get, we get lost just in our own

knowledge of different things. And now we have podcasts and we

have books and we have so, so much.

But to be able to send just teams down, to be able to share,

like you said, to take those materials to both, you know,

kind of adapt them to, to your, to your culture, the

translation. I mean, it's been it's been

pretty great. What what does what role do the

medical teams serve that go? It's a good question, so keep in

mind it's a country in need, a spiritual need, but physical

needs too. So most of the people, so they

don't have access to medicine to treatment.

So through Grace Church, so we go to those rural communities.

So we set up a clinic in one local, local church with the

church in the church. And we invited people from the

church to be with us those four days serving their own

community, right. So we provide, you know, the the

doctors, the medicine, but also the community could see that

local church who care about them.

So it's not about it's not about CFCI or Great Shores to make

famous our names. No, it's about the local church,

you know, to, to put in contact that pastor, those leaders,

those members, because if we're around on Sunday, we're going to

leave next Thursday. But the local church will be

with that community for for many times.

So we accomplished many goals bringing medical teams to serve

those communities, and we're very thankful for that.

And so Fabrizio, also with some of these medical trips, there

have been individuals with different levels of expertise

that have, that have served the communities in some, some non

traditional ways. Can you give us a, a, a, a list

of a few of those things in ways that we've been able to serve in

that capacity? Yeah.

For example, with Grace we had a couple of team who bring a part

of the team who do a small contraction program.

So. But let me tell you something.

So when you say thing out-of-the-box, I like that

because so many times we think we serve the Lord because of the

degree that we have because of the title.

But first of all, it's looking for a HAR, let me tell you,

because sometimes we can serve with our titles and degrees, but

the first level is to have a HAR and be willing to enroll in a

mission trip, you know, but being there, as I told you, you

can be saving with a contraction section program.

You can be with the children so and you can think I have a this

title, this degree. How I'm going to be just with

children is about people. It's about us to to be with them

for a few days. So I can see the faces of those

children when the I say, you know, the white people just

come, even they don't know their language.

But you are giving your time to those children.

In many cases their parents are not sharing their life with

them. So how important is for the

God's God's Kingdom to spend time with children's.

So for me is many ways. But the most simple thing could

be very productable in the God's hands.

So you know, bringing a patient from 1 section to another from

the vital sign. Through the appointment with the

doctor just trying to talk with them and smiling then, you know,

or, or just packing medicine, for example, you know, Oh my

goodness, you know, I I went to Clemson or you know, you know,

the sheer college and are you asking me to just count pills?

But you are going to make a difference in the people life.

You know so many way how you can be involved there.

And also we have a program that we call Global ambassadors.

You can come from a from a month to a year and you can serve with

us in those areas and those programs too.

So it's a short time options, but also more than just 8 or 10

dates. Yeah, serving with us.

Yeah, going back to the women a little bit, just even your wife

Claudia, the work that she's been doing, and she was telling

me a little about just some of the challenges of just

culturally, like what women are thinking about and even what

they feel like they're not allowed to think and talk about.

So can you speak a little bit just to what she's encountered

with women in Nicaragua and how she's trying to help them grow

closer to the Lord through that? Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a big

question, so I need to figure out my answer.

But yeah, Claudia, she's very passionate to work with women's

and it's not just Cloud, it's a team, you know, beside her.

They work together. But also, you know, as a as

psychologist, she use her skill, you know, to go through many

appointment counseling, but also using the same resources.

It's like a good combination, you know, and sadly in our

culture, women, we don't say that, but you know, through

through expression, the way how we live the life.

It's like the women less than the men in some spaces, the

women can talk, you know, and even even in the church.

So the idea in, in, in, in the, in the goal is to help those

women to find her identity in Christ.

Now for them to be able to to think rightly about about them

because they they have been growing thinking I am less than

a man. You know, when you grew up with

that mind, since it's very difficult, you know, and I don't

know if this is a war in English, but we fight with

machismo. Machismo we say, yeah, we say in

Nicaragua. So it's very hard.

But Claudia and her team, they are doing a such a good work

with women's through counselling's to Bible studies

through the sewing program. So every Tuesday, you know,

they, they come together, a group of women, they do a Bible

study or devotional first and then just go through the through

the sewing program because idea is to equip those women, you

know, to find the true in God. They were created equal, as the

men we were. So, yeah, and I mean, in every

culture you have topics that are taboo.

So you even even here in the South, like the work that is

we're creating studies about sexuality and like being honest

and vulnerable with our emotions and what are you really thinking

and not stuffing things down and hiding?

That's been a struggle for us 'cause that's just the culture

that we're coming out of and things are changing as well.

But it does just look different for every.

Culture yeah and 11 horrible thing that happened.

You know where our culture is the abuse right against the

women's physical abuse, sexual abuse, spiritual abuse.

So we are working with women's who have been going through

those season and hard time. So because you know, it's it's

right there in the culture. So and as a church, so we

shouldn't be doing or living in that way.

But even in the church we have many type of abuses.

Yeah. And that that was somebody asked

me when I came back from Nicaragua, they were like, what

are your takeaways? Like what are you thinking

about? And for me personally, like I've

grown up in the United States thinking about feminism and

whatever that word means on different levels.

But coming back, I'm like, I think what they're doing down

there, you know, trying to protect women, trying to care

for them who've experienced abuse, giving them access to

God's word and helping them understand it for themselves,

helping them to talk about difficult things.

I'm like, I think that's the most empowering thing you can do

for women, you know, And we've made it super complicated in the

United States. It was a very clear.

Picture of all we have a we have a women right now and we're

sewing program. Her husband doesn't like that

that she she comes wow yeah and he's telling her you are not

good with this why you are going there as a comment, but also

it's turn as a prayer request. Even pastor wife are going

through some type of abuses. So, you know, we have more job

to do with pastors, right Was with Mens, you know, to teach

them how to treat their own wife, Sir.

Yeah, that's a good, that's really a good window into the

church. And we have a 20 now, I guess 21

year partnership with CFCI. We were able to have a a

reception, a dinner, kind of a ceremony last summer, last

summer. Yeah.

You've been there for most of that time, it seems like, and

we'll have Wes in who's been a country lead for for many years.

And I know men like Wes and Ken Bickle and Tom Fowler, just to

name a few, who've taken dozens and dozens of trips.

Just reflecting on those relationships, where do you

where, how have you grown as a follower of of Jesus through

this this partnership? I could start saying they are

friends, they are mentors and family and being with them, you

know, I have a better perspective about God.

So my relationship with God has been improved.

You know, just just having a meal with them because always

you are talking about the Lord and God's word and teaching, you

know, about their life and they are they have been modulating

through their family, their wives, they were how they, they,

they spend their life. So it's a such a big impact in

in my life, in my marriage, the way how we raise our children in

my faith. You know, about my approach

about the Scripture is different.

The way how I teach, the way how I preach, the way how I see my

own country, you know, they have been pouring into my life a lot.

And I am very thankful for those men.

You know, that going there, you sacrifice your time, your

family, you know, even their own resources.

And so it's a such a bless for me, for my my wife, my family

and my team. So I can say I am very thankful

and I am a different person because of their investment in

my life. Friend, mentor, family, that's

well, well said. But just as we close, what can

we be praying for for the Nicaraguan church?

Yeah. So, you know, through this hard

season, as country, you know, we got COVID and then after COVID

and as nation we are facing challenge.

Please pray for our church to be light and salt and to keep in

mind that our assignment is to make disciples so easily we can

lose that point, which is was Jesus telling you know, the

church And also that assignment is for us too.

So even doesn't matter what type of situation we're facing, you

know, as a church, to be able to keep making disciples, to be

right there, you know, as one bracelet that Wes gave me many,

many years ago. Flee to the battle to be able to

flee to the battle every day to make disciple even in the hard

context, you know I'm on the hard situation to be solved and

be light. That's great.

Would you, would you pray for us, pray for our church, pray

for your church. And I'd love for you to pray in

your native language. Sure.

And then pray for us in English as well.

And we'll close our time that way.

Good. What Amos Padre queremoja de

certe por esta manana teraca compartiendo lo que tua secho

durante tanto sanos a trivede este partnership Congress senor

queremos E darte tila Gloria darte tila Andra queremo

reconocerque en nasto Serie possible cinti por juntarnos por

ponernos en El mismo Camino de GRA deserte poro invitarnos a

collaborate entu reino Y entu obra tantuaka en Estados Unidos

en El upstate in Greenville, senor como en Nicaragua Padre

rego que bendigas aleglesia Nicaragua estor ruego ES

continuar ciendo Lucy Sal Y continuar senoro con amiral en

cristo Y continuar a siendo de cipulos.

Father God, this morning we thanks you and we have been

talking about what you have been doing through this partnership

and it's about you and it's for you and Lord, all the glory

belongs to you. I want to thanks you for Grace

Church and this amazing partnership and each person who

has been involved from the from the beginning until today.

And my, my prayer request to you for great church for them is to

keep making disciples, to keep doing what you already told them

to do here in the Upstate, in South Carolina and all around

the United States. Please be with them, protect

them, and thank you because they are a light among the darkness

Lord where they are. We love you, Lord, and we praise

you, and we ask all these things in the name of Jesus our Savior,

Amen. Amen.

Amen. Amen.

Amen. Thank you so much you're.

Welcome, Sir. Well, I hope you enjoyed that

interview with Fabricio. And we're here now with Wes

Cavan and Wes, his wife Leanne and their two adult children

have been a part of Grace Church for over 2 decades.

And the Wes has had a unique perspective leading trips to

Nicaragua. And we just wanted to have him

give a little Grace Church perspective on some of the

things that you heard Fabrizio talk about.

So, Wes, welcome. We're glad you're here.

Glad to be here, thanks for having me.

Well, tell us a little bit about your relationship with

Nicaragua. When did you take your first

trip and how has your opportunities to love and serve

both the people of Grace Church leading trips and the folks of

Nicaragua changed over time? I would love to be able to sit

here and talk about how God just gave me this clear vision to do

international missions and LED me to Nicaragua.

But my story is really different.

Back in 2004, I was mentoring a young guy who was part of our

church, guy named Vern Kivet and his wife Kelly.

And they went on the first trip to Nicaragua with Grace Church

and we're encouraged to become full time missionaries on the

mission field down there and moved.

And then Vern and I kept our relationship and we would talk

weekly and every week it was when are you coming, When are

you coming? And my answer was always the

same. I'm supporting you, but I am

never coming to Nicaragua. I, I don't speak the language.

I'm not sure I know anything about the culture.

God can use me to support you and the ministry there that

you're doing. So that went on literally a

year. And I finally succumbed to his

unrelenting pressure and committed to go on a trip in

March of 2005. And even during the trip prep

and even I think on the way down to Nicaragua, I told a friend

that was on the team, I'm coming, but I'm never coming

back. Once we get back to Greenville,

Nicaragua will be a distant memory for me.

Check. It off the list.

Check it off the list. I've done international

missions. Why do you think?

Your hesitation was so strong. You know, I don't know.

Part of it was I felt like that I was doing things I got.

It really grown me as a leader in the 5-6 years leading up to

that trip and really felt like I just had plenty to do here.

Yeah. And I wasn't sure I had capacity

to do something else, whether that be physical or even

emotional capacity to do something else you.

Know, you know, Wes, I, I wanna ask you guys if you're

listening, if you go back and listen to Chris Stonaker, when

she was talking about Kenya, it said the exact same thing.

That's right. Which is, which is how a lot of

us feel like we, we are, we, we're busy, have a lot of lot of

concerns here at home, just things that we're doing.

And then God opens up the door. And so, you know, the question

is, are you going to be obedient to like step through that?

And so, so you do Wes, you go down on that first trip and then

what? What happens after that?

What I was introduced to was a culture that, although I knew

nothing about, I could immediately relate.

I was in a place at my life at the time where I was just hungry

in so many ways and just looking for ways for God to use me.

But at the same time, I was fighting just being such a

selfish person. And if if I was to expend

capacity somewhere else, that would take away the

opportunities that Wes had for Wes here in Greenville.

But when I got there, the same skills and capacities that God

had been working on me and in some ways beating in on me,

which he needed to do, those were immediately kind of

elevated and exposed in a really good way.

I was drawn to the people, I was drawn to the language.

It's interesting, I took two years of high school Spanish and

for 20 plus years had not spoken a word of Spanish other than

trying to impress a a server at a Mexican restaurant, which

we've all done, right? Exactly.

And I immediately was able to have some small conversations

with people in Spanish, which was completely supernatural.

I believe that fully. And it was just neat to watch

God work on my heart, so much so that by the end of that trip, I

was already talking to people like, OK, when can I come again?

And this, I mean, seven days earlier, I'm like, I am never

coming back to this place. So yeah, it just, it was just

neat to watch him work on me in that way and just really kind of

melt me and melt my heart that quickly, which I've seen him do

a number of times over the years, but very few times has it

been that demonstrative. Right, sure.

Yeah. And so then you began to pursue

more opportunities and the opportunity to become basically

a country lead, which is like an advocate.

Tell us a little bit about just kind of your history, how that

role has progressed over time and how have you tried to

champion the specific ministry in Nicaragua?

Yeah. You know, it's, it's neat the

way that has has changed because those first, probably the first

six years or so that we were doing ministry in Nicaragua, we

were going once, sometimes twice a year.

And every now and then we might throw in at the request of our

partners. Hey, can you come?

Can you send some teachers down? And MO, I think you went on one

of those teaching trips that was really no strategy behind it.

It was just how can we meet some needs in the moment?

And we've got some funding and some budget available.

So let's let's go partner with these folks that so desperately

need it. And that's not the way I work.

You know, I've 33 years as a project management professional

and I like planning things out and having a good strategy to

move ahead. And so we started working around

the 2008, 2009 time frame. What does it look long term?

We we know we want to be partnered here.

We've got a great history and we've got hungry people, hungry

churches, hungry pastors and leaders.

And what would it look like if we put a strategy in place and

weren't just doing things in an ad hoc fashion?

So part of that we rolled out in 2010 a first three-year ministry

focus where we will go for three years at a time to a specific

area of the country. And during that three years we

will train pastors and leaders. We will host medical brigades in

villages, rural villages, usually at a church where we

have one of the pastors or leaders that's in the classes

that we're teaching. And just looked at it as an

opportunity to to say, OK, we've got a chance here to make a

bigger impact in one area and give them equipping over that

three-year period where, you know, maybe at the end of three

years, pastors and leaders have gotten 300 plus hours of

education, seminary style classes, 24 to 28 different

classes that range from all sorts of categories.

You know, deep theology classes, biblical skill sets, some

personal growth, things like we do with our men's round table

and our Azare women's studies. And then just some courses where

we hear from those pastors and leaders.

Hey, this is the kind of stuff that we don't know church

administration, We don't, we don't know how to build a budget

in our church. We don't know how to run things

day-to-day. Can you help us with?

That and that that happens over time.

That, yeah, that all of that didn't happen from 2010 to 2012.

Those first three years, we had a great idea and so we started

implementing it and we've been, you know, we've just been real

open first to the Holy Spirit and, you know, how are you

moving in these different areas? And then really leaning into our

partners to Fabricio and his team and some of the other

leaders that are pastors around the country that aren't

necessarily affiliated with CFCI but are close partners with us

and them telling us these are the types of courses we need.

These are the types of outreach opportunities that will be

beneficial and impactful in our area.

And I think it was great listening to Fabrizio talk about

his background in administration coming into the church.

You know, it's, it's, it's pretty special to see how God

used his unique gifting to, to even give us a vision on how we

could come alongside the church and support them in some of

these kind of non traditional ways.

You know, we the, the Bible and theology is often present.

We're able to supplement that. But some of these other aspects

of church leadership often are are neglected and can be the

downfall of a lot of churches. Right.

You, you know, it's as Fabricio would tell us.

Hey, we need some of these administrative type classes or

we need some help. Even if it's not a class, can

you have, you know, a couple guys come down for a few days

and just spend some time and let let some of these pastors and

leaders just ask questions. And when we were able to start

recognizing that, and this was hard for me, you know, it's a

control freak to start recognizing that we can have a

plan that even within that plan, there's opportunities to flex

that actually bring honor and glory to Christ.

Because we are not so rigid in the ministry plans that we we

aren't receptive to moving in a different way, even if it's just

a minor way is going down for a weekend versus spending a whole

week with pastors and leaders and having to develop a, a full

training curriculum and materials.

Let's just go down and spend 28 to 30 hours in a room with some

pastors and leaders and hear what they need on the front

line. And that was that was huge for

us to be able to flex. And it's interesting that we're

talking about pastor and leader training.

That same approach and, and mindset has been really

beneficial over the last 7 to 8 years as some things have

changed in the country and in the world with COVID.

And it really just made us have to think, if we go into a place

with a plan to do something and God has a different plan in

mind, even at the last minute, how are we going to respond and

how are people going to respond? And I think some of the

foundation for being able to handle that in Flexwell was set

1415 years ago in hey, can we do something different?

Can we try something different than we've done all along?

That's good. Yeah, that's awesome.

You spent a lot of time in the country and you have been with

the Church in Nicaragua. And we talked with Fabrizio

that, you know, there are things that are very similar about our

churches and that's important. And then there's some

differences as well. But what are what have you

learned about the Church in Nicaragua?

We've been there partnering with them for 20 years as of last

summer. So that's, that's a long time.

Just what? What have we learned while we've

been down there? You know, it's, it's interesting

that you ask that because if you would have asked me that after

my first trip almost 20 years ago, my response would be very

different than it is today, because the more I've been

exposed and again, the guy who never wanted to go back, just

got back from his 37th trip to Nicaragua is the church.

My, my observation and my opinions of the church in

Nicaragua have changed, but the church in Nicaragua has changed

as well. And it's been really neat to see

particularly and in, you know, discredit as I say this, it

sounds arrogant, but the credit all goes to God as we've taken

time and and put efforts into specific types of training with

those pastors and leaders and watch them then let that go down

into their churches and watch the people when we go, when we

visit a church three years later, four years later, and

they have some language that is common language to us.

But more importantly, it's it's language that brings honor and

brings glory to the gospel. It's it's really neat to to have

saying have been able to say five years ago that didn't

exist. And it didn't exist for a number

of reasons. It it wasn't because they didn't

have someone capable necessarily.

It, it wasn't because a pastor wasn't passionate and

knowledgeable about Christ and about teaching the Bible, but in

a lot of cases it was a push. You know, Fabrizio's team, CFCI,

they deserve a lot of credit because they are continually

following up and pushing these pastors, not necessarily to be

better than you are, but to be more intentional than they were.

And the intentionality is really what one of the things that has

driven that change that I've seen is we've seen pastors that

were taking a story that they had that was a really good story

and searching the scriptures to find a scripture that they

believed matched that story so that they could preach a sermon.

And we've seen those same pastors now dive into the Word

and be able to find examples from their life where the

Scripture actually drove the application instead of the

application driving the Scripture.

And that's the biggest change that I've seen.

As the pastors have become more knowledgeable and aware of the

impact of their teaching, the churches in their hunger to be

taught well have responded. And and we've watched churches

that were probably struggling and maybe teetering on the edge

of how long will this church still be a church.

We've watched those churches grow and be some of the stronger

churches that have a strong voice not only in their

communities but across the country.

Because they're being rooted more deeply in the word that

being modeled them applying it to their life.

That makes that makes a lot of sense.

And then you want to pass on if you as you become a stronger

church, you want to see other churches become stronger.

And that does seem to be one of the the beauties for in in CFCI

again, Christ for the city international, like Fabrizio was

talking about just meeting churches where they're at.

And I love what you said, helping them to just be more

intentional, to just see the Great Commission accomplished.

Yeah. And you know, it's, I mentioned

resources. It's not that many of them lack

the resources, but quite frankly, particularly in the

rural areas, the pastors and and then ultimately the the

churches, the local church, they do lack resources.

And that impacts their ability to do ministry, doesn't impact

necessarily the pastor's ability to preach a solid sermon, but it

impacts their ability to do the day-to-day ministry.

Just in terms of how do more people in those churches be

equipped? How, how can they be more

equipped to do that ministry with their neighbor versus

everything having to run through the pasture, which is very much

in in that church model in that culture?

So in some ways more of an equipping model which we are

familiar with. So as we've had different

individuals from the church with lots of different giftings head

down and I know you tell them this in their, in their training

meeting, that they need to stay flexible.

They need to stay flexible, particularly after the last five

to seven years. Some of the things you

mentioned, can you think of some examples of how guys just really

shown up and, and, and multiplied efforts, really

things that we couldn't even imagine happening?

Yeah, you, you know, when I, if I think of efforts and so I'll,

I'll talk about some of those. And almost all of those efforts

have people with them too. So people that are spread across

our campuses at Grace and you know, the first ones that come

to mind are are Tom Fowler and Mary Ezell and Ken Bickel and

Doris Bickel. As we've thought about how do

we, how do we change our strategy?

How do we, how do we put something in place that allows

us to be intentional, which in turn then allows those local

churches to be intentional. We really depend on people that

know the culture like a Mary and Chuck Arnold, Chuck and Wendy.

You know, Chuck grew up on the mission field in Central America

and I'm so he was invaluable as we talked through what would

this look like? I'm as well as leaning on our

partners in Nicaragua. But you know what?

Tom Fowler, who just says I'm not a general, I'm a soldier.

You tell me what to do, but then when you turn around, he has

really help shape how we put together training classes and

the types of training classes. And he's so he's got such a an

ear to the Holy Spirit for what class needs to be next.

As we finish a set of classes, What do those pastors need next?

And it not always being a rigid plan because again, I would, I

would say, let's plan the three years out and then let's go

execute. And he was like, well, no, we

need to listen to the Holy Spirit.

And so from a pastor and leader training, having people like

that, that we're willing to think about what is needed to

understand what the culture and the people need.

I'm so Mary was invaluable for a lot of that.

But then when we, you know, we don't just do pastor and leader

training, that is that's kind of the crux of our ministry there.

But the other things that we do are really done to help bring

credibility to that local church and, and those local pastors.

So we do medical clinics and we do school teacher training.

And that was that was just something that we came up with.

We had a partner that Mary knew well that was a school teacher

and a school administrator at a Christian Academy in Nicaragua.

And they said, hey, if you've got school teachers at Grace

Church that would be willing to come on one of your trips, they

could come do, you know, in service classes for our

teachers, they could teach some classes to our students.

And, you know, during our summer trips, which is where we

implement that school teacher training, They're still in

school in Nicaragua. And it's just worked out really

well and has been been really beneficial for the Nicaraguan

school teachers who maybe even more so than the pastors, lack

the resources to be able to educate children.

Sure. But for our people to now have

another opportunity for us to go, OK, you don't, you're not a

medical professional, but you can help out in the pharmacy or

you can help out, you know, walking patients from station to

station at the medical clinic. You're not a, you're not someone

who's gifted in training pastors or leaders.

Is there something else you can do?

And God has opened up opportunities for that over the

last six or eight years because of COVID and just getting first,

getting people in the country because of all the restrictions

around COVID. And then just things have just

been constantly changing around the world.

And so, you know, we take a trip three years ago.

We're scheduled to go for our first, what I call our big

teams, where we have 25 to 30. People on a team.

Going back after COVID, so we've been away for two years.

We had a couple of small teams of two or three people go in

2021, but now we hit 2022 and we get ready to leave on Saturday

morning in mid March and huge storms on the East Coast cancel

our trip. And so it gave us an

opportunity. OK, what, what are we going to

do? Are we going to sulk about

having a trip cancelled? The earliest we could have

gotten to Nicaragua was midweek, and at that point it it didn't

make. Sense you got to turn around and

come back. Home so everybody on the team,

all these grace people said I've got the week off for work how

can we serve our community so we did a bunch of projects around

houses. We went to front porch housing.

It just was neat to watch a bunch of things happen and I

didn't do any of that. I mean, I I participated, but I

didn't do any of the planning. It was people on the team yet

you got Candy Hunt and folks from the our Powdersville

campus. You've got Meredith O'Malley and

folks from our HB campus, just all over the different Grace

campuses. I think on that team, that was

an interesting team, that we had at least two people from every

campus, which we don't always have.

And so all these people came together and did service

projects for the entire week. And then we got that trip

rescheduled for June and just about everyone from that March

trip who had taken a week off in March still spent their week

serving. People went on that June trip.

And you know, thinking about Meredith, Meredith helped plan a

bunch of the things that we did that week for the service

project. And then I just asked her, I'm

like, hey, you got a skill set here.

Why don't you help me with some of the things for the team in

June? And what we didn't know is that

trip in June and then our next three big teams, all we're going

to be faced with a similar thing that we would have a plan and

within a day or two before the trip.

And then I think in the case of our July 2023 trip when they

landed in Nicaragua, they found out this trip is not what we

thought it was going to be. We're not going to be doing

anything except pastor and leader training that we thought.

And those were only two of the 28 people, right?

So everybody had to flex. Everybody had to be willing to

say, this isn't about me. This isn't about some grand plan

that I had to either use my pharmacy skills or use my school

teacher skills are just to use my relational skills as playing

with children. Because now I don't just play

with children. I've got to actually come up

with something intentional to do with them for five days.

And that perspective, like I mentioned earlier, I think we

set the foundation for some of that 15 years, 141516 years

earlier when we said how can we do things different following

the Holy Spirit's guidance in the moment, not knowing that the

Holy Spirit would be guiding like literally in the moment.

You know, the word that comes to mind is just like maturing, like

we weren't mature enough 15 years ago to be able to do that.

God took small steps to grow and mature.

And you're, you're the beneficiary because you've,

you've, you've been there the whole time.

You've seen so many of the different steps.

That's great. I would have never thought about

how a ministry matures as people conform to what God is trying to

do through his spirit. That's just a really great

picture, Wes. So if someone's listening and

they have never thought about Nicaragua, they listen to

Fabricio, they're listening to you now.

And they're like, huh, maybe I'll give that a second, a

second thought, a second look. What would you, what would you

tell that person to not convince them?

We're not trying to convince anybody.

But let's let's go back to, you know, Wes from 2000.

What five 2005 S Talk to Wes from 2005.

If I could take that back, you know, the first thing I would I

would tell someone is why would you even entertain the thought

of going on a trip? And what I would want to tell

Wes in 2005 is your whole mindset is wrong to begin with.

If you're thinking about whether you're going to go and come back

or, or what you're doing and that you really as a believer,

you should be turning and depending on Christ and going,

how are you going to use me? And it's easy to kind of and

maybe even cliche to say that, but it's really what it takes to

allow God to move in your life on one of these trips.

Because I mean, frankly, I've seen a number I think I, I

shared with the elders and leaders a few months ago, just

in the last 21 years, I think we've had about 600 or so

individuals go on trips to Nicaragua from Grace Church.

And there's probably 100, maybe 200.

I don't know of those folks that that didn't do that.

And if I, if I, if if I had not tried to be somewhat intentional

while I was in country on that first trip, I probably would

have been in the same, I've been in the same boat.

And I would have said, you know what this is, this is cool.

It's great that God's moving and we've got folks that are willing

to do this. But this is not for me.

And I don't think a trip internationally is necessarily

for everybody. But what I would want people to

know is that regardless of how little skill set you think you

have, God is ready to use you in a big way, even if you don't

know what it's going to look like when you get there.

And, and that was the big thing for me is I don't, I don't speak

the language. I don't, I don't, I don't know

how to relate to this culture. And then to get down there and

just be used in, in real ways that builds confidence in your

spiritual maturity and not arrogance, but confidence.

And you know, for a lot of us, we need, we need spiritual

confidence because we just lack that ability and it makes us

powerless at times. Yeah, that's a good word.

I have two more questions. One's a fun one and one we'll

end on is a little more reflective.

OK, this is a little rapid fire. What's your favorite food that

you eat when you're in Nicaragua?

It's called a Naca Tamale and it has potatoes and spices and some

masa and it's it's cooked in a banana and some pork and it's

cooked in a banana leaf. They usually eat it for

breakfast. I would eat it anytime of the

day, but it's, yeah, not a Tamale.

Not a Tamale. OK, favorite sweet treat?

There's these cookies, they're called Cheeky's, and they're

like butter cookies, but they have some chocolate on them.

It's probably my favorite sweet treat.

Trace Leche's is big down there, but I'm not a big fan.

It's a little too sweet for me. Little too sweet.

OK, one of the favorite places that you visited.

Oh wow, there's so many, so many cool parts about that country.

It's, it's hard to nail down one.

But you know, a special one for me was be able to take some,

some friends who are close who were on a trip with us.

We stayed a few extra days to celebrate one of their birthdays

and we went volcanoes surfing on a active volcano.

That was pretty awesome. That is pretty awesome.

I was going to say what? Think of another adventure that

you've done while you're there. Another adventure that I did on

my very first trip was I went off by myself, which you are

told not to do and I'm hard headed.

And I was surrounded by about 12 Nicaraguan national police

wondering what I was doing roaming.

And we were up in the middle of nowhere and they were wondering

what I was doing and I couldn't speak Spanish to explain what I

was doing so. It's not like you like, stand

out in a crowd. You.

Know you look suspicious. So that was adventure.

I'm glad. I'm glad you made it back the

year I we did some zip lining. Yeah.

I'm not sure it was safety approved, but it was.

The zip lines there are awesome and fast and high.

Certainly not OSHA approved. And then we went, I think we

went in the caves with the. Bats caves next to one of the

volcanic active volcanoes there. There's some caves and those are

neat because you can go in, you're wearing a headlamp.

You get real deep into the caves and the guys, the guides will

tell you, OK, everybody turn your headlamp off.

And then it gets real freaky because you're hearing the bats

and you can feel them flying by your face.

It it's pretty freaky, but yeah, that's pretty awesome too.

So friends, if the the spiritual maturity stuff doesn't get you,

then you know, we got food, sweet treats and great

adventures. But it's on a serious note, Wes,

I want you to go back to last summer 20 year celebration.

I know it was, it was a really big deal for CFCI to honor Grace

Church 20 years. And so we accepted that honor.

And again, it's the Lord's work. We wouldn't be there if if he

didn't ordain at all. But as you're sitting there and

you're thinking about yourself personally, like Wes Cavan would

not be the same person without Nicaragua, What are what are a

couple of ways that that's true? Yeah, 100%.

I wouldn't be the same person. As I mentioned, you know, God

was working on me and really showing me some leadership

abilities that I had those 5-6 years before I first went to

Nicaragua. And but that was a huge

catalyst, untapping what those abilities really were or really

are. And never, you know, had I said,

you know what, Vern, I'm not coming.

I'll just, I'll continue to support you.

I'll be a good Christian and support a international

missionary, but I'm not coming. Had I done that, who knows if I

would untap some of those things or if God would untap some more

of those abilities in me. So, you know, that's the first

change. And you know, really just from a

personal perspective, not knowing the, the difficult

season that my family would go through the next four months

after that trip. And MO, you're, you're part of

that story. But the important part is what

God taught me on that first trip about myself helped help prepare

me for those difficult moments over those next four to five

months. And on the back end of that,

being able to say, you know what, not only is God faithful,

but he's he's powerful enough to trust to do whatever he says do.

And that is what someone that's selfish and self-centered and a

control freak like me, that's, that's what those people.

So there's somebody listening to this that is just like that.

And what you need to hear is that God is willing to use even

the most stubborn, hard headed people for his purposes.

And in a way that you won't even, you can't even imagine

what your life would look like 20 years later.

And thinking about our celebration last summer and you

know, all glory to God for what that looked like.

There were about 100 people in that room and it was so cool.

And I work with Fabrizio to hey, let's plan this when we have a

big team in country so that some people and a lot of those, it

was their first trip. I think your daughter was on

that trip. It was her first trip to

Nicaragua. So a lot of people were getting

not only their first exposure to Nicaragua, but it's their first

day in country. And what they got to experience

was a worship service where people shared stories, both

Nicaraguans and folks from Grace Church.

And there were about 90 other people besides our team members

in that room that were pastors and leaders and just ministry

partners from across the country who were able to stand up and

share testimonies of God is at work in Nicaraguan.

God. God was at work in Nicaragua

before Grace Church even came here.

But what God has done in these 20 years is he's taking, he's

taken a group of people, both the CFCI folks and all of the

people from Grace Church. And he has put them together and

by molding them together has made a strong impact on the

country versus, you know, individuals or small groups of

people not having as big an impact, pulling all those

resources together, human and capital resources, just to watch

those people stand up in that room and, and say, here's the

impact that that this ministry for 20 years has had on the

village of Ladalia. Most people in the world will

never hear of the village of Ladalia, but the Gospel is real

and and Jesus is more alive there in the lives of people in

that community because of the work over the last 20 years.

That's a good word to end on, Wes, thank you for all your

years of service. And as long as God allows, we

pray that we'll just be faithful and take the next step and

remain flexible and. We're recruiting now for a March

2025 team. OK, you heard it.

March 2025 and go to a website. Yeah, it's on the website.

Go to the website, fill out the application and let Wes know

that you're interested. And yeah, thanks for listening.

Hope you enjoyed hearing from Fabrizio and Wes Cavan on our

missions in Nicaragua.