EP 44: The Holidays: Challenges and Hope with Joey Altom

If we're rejoicing this Christmas, or if we're weeping

this Christmas, or if it's a mingling of the two, which for

most of us it's a mingling of the two.

Finding time to meditate on the significance of God being with

us in Christ and let the truth of His presence be a real anchor

for our soul. Again, whether we're rejoicing

or whether we're weeping and believing that we can have real

joy and contentment through all that.

Welcome back to the Grace Church podcast.

Today we are talking about the holidays.

Seems like we have been in holiday season since well before

Halloween this year for some reason.

And I'm here with Whitney Maynus.

Hello, Whitney. Hey, Scott.

And here with Joey Alton and we are wanting to talk about ways

that as a church family, we can navigate the next couple of

weeks. And so, Joey, thanks for joining

us. Hey man, I'm glad to be here.

Tell us a little bit about you, your family, and what you do

here at the church. Yeah, My family and I, we came

to Grace in the middle of 2007. So my wife Charlie and our

daughter Mary Sullivan. I've been members since then and

probably 12 or 13 years ago came on our staff.

And currently my role in staff is here at the Pelham campus as

pastor to discipleship and group.

So I'm working with our pastors and our ministers to provide

care and oversight and shepherding and discipleship

growth for our campus. And so when you think about care

and oversight, mainly talking about adults, is that right?

Yeah, that's right. Adults.

Yeah. And so as we enter into this

conversation, you just had some some thoughts about how to help

our adults, help our families, just really help them work

through all the complexity that the holidays can bring.

And so tell us a little bit about just what's on your heart.

Yeah. So during the Christmas season,

it's, it's very evident to me that people have all sorts of

experiences and perspectives during this this time of year.

And so for some, this season is full of dread and fear, and for

others, it's legitimately celebration and cheer.

And most of us probably ebb and flow between those two things,

depending on what's happening in our lives.

And so for some of us, it's a reminder of loss, the loss of a

loved one, the loss of traditions, the loss of

gatherings. And so the nostalgia that comes

with the season and gatherings of family and friends, like

those are real losses worth lamenting.

And then for others, there's a lot of new things, new children,

new homes, new grandchildren, new traditions to create, new,

old traditions to enjoy a new ways.

And your family and your friends can get together and there's not

a ton of drama. So all that's worth celebrating.

So here's what I find myself asking is what is God teaching

us as we go through the Christmas season?

And how do we love others? Well.

Because we know the reason for the celebration, we're pretty

clear on that as believers, but yet that somehow gets drowned

out in a lot of personal emotion, feeling experiences.

And so we want to acknowledge that all that's real.

Because I don't even know that you mentioned the the

consumeristic part that is just constantly battling for

attention. That's another layer of, of

complexity. And so and I think if you're

listening to this, you're firmly in the middle of it.

You understand it just like Joey was saying, you're probably

ebbing and flowing even like we are in the room this morning.

So what we thought we would do is just kind of break it down by

just a few few topics and just offer some thoughts and some

commentary around different topics, different groups of

folks, different seasons of life.

And hopefully I think you'll find this helpful.

So we wanted to start out just by talking about our our single

population that may feel a certain acute sense of

loneliness in this season. Yeah.

And so as we think about our our responsibility and to try to

learn together what God's teaching us, then for those in

our church who are single, then there's a responsibility to to

the single person and to our church to love well and to love

one another well. There's mutual responsibility.

So for us to be aware that extended singleness feels like a

real loss for some of our folks. And they are headed into

situations where they're going to have their relatives that

they see every year or two ask about significant others and if

they're dating anyone. And they're going to have to

stand there and smile their way through it and to say, no,

there's no one right now. And so we have to acknowledge

it. That's a real thing that our

folks are heading into. And then for the single person,

when that conversation comes your way, the idea of loving

that person to the point that you desire to be loved, it's a

real opportunity to just display that your contentment, your

satisfaction is who got is in who God is and what he has for

you, not what a relative who sees you every couple years

thinks about you all. Right.

So say that little. Say that sentence one more time.

That in that moment when when the relative is approaching you

about your singleness right, you have a chance to love them to

the point that you desire to be loved.

And in doing so, display that your contentment is and who God

is and what He has for you, not in their opinion of you.

That's good, yeah. And that's part of, I mean, I'll

speak as a single person that, you know, part of the difficulty

is not just that you wish that you had somebody to love you,

but that you have love that you would love to be giving to

somebody else. And so like that's a great

opportunity to instead of be focused on the thing that like

the loss, like filling it with the people who are in front of

you and that you are in contact with and, and don't always get

to see, but on the holidays. So it's a unique opportunity

there. And I think we'll get ready to

talk about this in a little bit too.

But singleness is a much broader expanse than we give it credit

for. So there's your 20s and single

30s never married, you've got your widows, you have those have

been divorced like and there's just a lot of complexity in all

of that. There's just layers of grief and

difficulty in that as well. So yeah, that's great, Joey.

That's helpful. So then what?

What are some ways as you think about the church being able to

step in? We want to make sure that's

prominent in this conversation. How can the church help care for

our single population during the holidays?

Yeah, it's we can't reduce identity of a person to marital

status. Like we have to validate their

personhood as image bearers. They're made in the image of

God. And so they're if they are

believers, then are there are brothers and sisters and it's

it's easy to treat singleness as a problem to be solved versus

just loving the person and being present with them in that.

So learning to acknowledge loneliness without minimizing

it. I'm inviting people into what

you're a part of. Create opportunities for

experiencing things together, whether that be a meal, taking

in all the things around town that are happening this time of

year, serving together. Really trying to create spaces

of belonging and dignity for one another to be together.

So again, not treating the single as a problem to be solved

or to be pitied, but to really have relationship with one

another. Yeah, as image bearers, right?

Yeah. And as in this conversation, as

brothers and sisters in Christ who are trying to follow Christ

and become more fully formed into the image of Christ, right?

And recognizing that we need each other, that the married

needs the single and the single needs the married.

That's right. And I think that gets lost

sometime. Would you agree with?

Yeah. And I think the word pity is

helpful to think about because I think if you are the single

person, you can throw yourself a pity party and it can feel like

everybody else around you is like, man, sorry, I hate that

for you. And like there is, it's just

bigger than all of that, you know, like there is good work

that we can be doing in this season.

And I am just really fortunate for the community that I have

and people who have just had kids and they're inviting me

into their homes, but like I'm inviting them into my home and

creating opportunities to connect with them as well.

And like, I really, I just need that relationship.

But I hope that they would say that like during the holidays,

that they want my presence, like they want me to be a blessing to

their family and to care for them uniquely because of the

season that I'm in. Yeah.

And this is not just a conversation or an opportunity

that is unique to the Christmas season, obviously.

And that's probably really, really important to state right

now. This should be a mindset all the

time, however, because it is acute.

We're acutely aware of certain gatherings and traditions and

things like that, and it's a great opportunity to just

reinforce this idea of looking out for one another and loving

one another and creating spaces of hospitality.

Is that what you said, John? Yeah, I think that's really

great. Anything else you want to add to

that? Yeah.

I have a couple of things. So even like years ago, Charlie,

my wife, I said a statement something like this, that we're

responsible to make singles feel valued, seen and spiritually and

relationally embraced. And she goes, you probably need

to replace singles with people. And I was like, oh, that is a

good word for me because then I'm not creating this.

Hierarchy. Yeah, right.

Based on marital status. Yeah, that's right.

And so it was a it was a loving, slight rebuke to help me think

differently about oh, no, we are all part of this household of

faith and we have a responsibility to one another.

Yeah. But then for the single, I would

say this, don't try to fake your way through the holidays.

That'll hollow out your soul. So intentionally seek out

community where you can, where it's trusted and good for you.

Don't isolate. If you need some time of

solitude, use your community to to have them affirm that.

But solitude would be to to pull away, to put into place

spiritual disciplines so you can go back toward being in

relationship for someone with other people versus just

clocking out saying hey, I'm done, I'm out.

And again, just just be present to the best of your ability.

Yeah, that's. Great.

So listen, transition and talk about those who are experiencing

grief, those who in that grief of all types, basically just

meaning a loss during during the season.

What's the word of encouragement for those folks?

Yeah, grief. Grief is, is not a state.

It's a process. And I mean, it does.

Grief doesn't stay put. Grief is always moving.

And grief is very surprising in some ways.

And so like for me personally at this time of year, the idea of

my grandmother who stepped in when my mother died when I was

five years old, to care for me. Like I, I grieve this time of

year in a particular way that she's not in the kitchen making

the things she makes for our family at Christmas.

In the same time, there's this deep gratitude I have for her

being present in our lives for so long.

So I have these this a duality of gratitude and grief happening

at the same time. So I can't deny it.

I got to, I got to acknowledge it.

That's a real loss. And more in that believing that

Jesus can comfort me in that. And so it is.

It is a unique thing that on a great, we could have a great

night, great Christmas, everything go well.

And at the end of the night, I still feel like someone's

missing. And I think that's a real thing

for our folks. Yeah.

And, and so really what we're talking about is experiencing a

full range of emotions and allowing ourselves to experience

the full range of emotions. Yeah.

How does our faith uniquely help us with that, Joey?

Yeah, if you think about Jesus being a man of sorrows, Jesus is

acquainted with grief. Jesus cried over loss.

He tells us that if we're poor in our spirit, the Kingdom is in

US. And if we mourn, he has real

comfort. And so, like, grief is

legitimate and it reflects real loss.

And there's something about feeling the weariness of life

and death that they would be easy to gloss over during the

season versus saying, no, no, this is right.

A season is so important to me. That guy came to be with us, and

though we're celebrating his first coming into the world, he

is the one that says he's coming back to wipe away every tear.

So I can endure through like the real grieving loss, the real

grief of loss of the holidays. And there are a lot of people, I

would imagine that are listening to this, that are experiencing

grief uniquely for the first time, whether it's the loss of a

parent or loss of a spouse or even loss of a child, a friend,

neighbor, a coworker, just someone that was present a year

ago that is not present now. It would be easy for grief to,

to overwhelm the, the gratitude that you would feel for the, the

memory of those, those persons just because grief is so

powerful. And I don't know that we do a

good job of, of managing it. I I love the fact that you

talked about Jesus weeping and I was a part of a natural burial

recently. And so I was thinking about this

topic a little more than I normally would.

And just the idea of Jesus and his humanity knowing full well

that he had the power to raise Lazarus and he was going to

raise Lazarus, was angry at the sadness and the despair that the

individuals around him were feeling, particularly Mary and

Martha. He was, I think, angry at the

loss and angry at the consequences of sin and death.

And I think he was ultimately angry that sin and death was

going to take his own life. And that's part of what the the

humanity, the anger, the weeping.

But then yet he was still was able to to raise Lazarus, even

though he knew it'd only be temporary.

And there, I don't know, there's something about that story and

that full range of the emotions that just gives me a place of

comfort to settle in when I don't even know exactly what I'm

feeling, you know, So I just I just comfort myself that if it

was good enough for Jesus to have this full range of

emotions, then it's all it's got to be good enough for me.

And and that, you know, when, when he identifies with us in

every way, yet was without sin. That's one of the ways that this

is real real for me. So any other thoughts?

Yeah, I do think that there's something about all those

emotions that you talked about and at least for my personality,

like wanting to rationalize them.

And it's like, where's this coming from?

Let me like analyze every single thing about it right here.

As exposed as as. Self protection.

Well, well, partly, but as opposed to just experiencing

them. Right.

Yeah, because then if I can understand it, then I'm in

control. And.

Right. And so I can even protect

against the emotional little bit.

And I do think that it's just helpful what you both are saying

of when those things come up, like if it's a practice to feel

them fully and not feel like they have to be understood.

And like part of that is how God has made us, that he has given

us those emotions just to be able to process the world around

us and that that's OK. And we have to process that with

some other folks, right, who, who aren't going to similar to

the first topic, not try to fix things, right, But are, are just

going to listen and just help, you know, identify with us in

our in our grief. Joey, as a as a pastor, thinking

about some ways, some some classes, programs, whatnot.

How do we as a church try to help disciple people through

this stage of loss? Yeah, there, there are a couple

things. One, I mean there's there's

grief share, there is a grace disguise.

There are things that we are putting forth for folks to come

and take part in to process their grief in good ways and

healthy ways with other people. So just you can, you can find

out more of that on our website or at your campus.

But I want to revisit one quick thing, Scott, if I can, please.

If the scriptures say that he will wipe away every tear from

their eyes, death shall be no more.

And there'll be no more mourning or crying or pain anymore.

Like the scriptures don't deny our tears.

And so for some of you that are grieving, this is the first

Christmas where you're grieving that lost or you know that this

is the last Christmas you're going to have with those folks,

that the tears are not the enemy.

They're OK. I was raised that tears are a

sign of weakness. And then even spiritually it was

put on me. The tears, your tears or a

display of your lack of faith, a new one of those things are very

helpful, right? That's not great.

But over time, learning that like tears are an actual gift

to, to help really wash away some of the deep pain of loss.

Because if the scripture said they're going to wipe them away,

then we can't deny them. And and this is part of our

experience. And so for our folks is again,

first, last, whatever this this season brings for you and

grieving. Crying is OK, Tears are OK.

That's a good reminder. All right, so then let's talk

about maybe a different form of grieving.

Grieving what you wished you had thought you might have.

Unsure what you even have and the context I'm talking about.

This is just larger family gatherings and the expectations

that come culturally with this magical Christmas experience

that we have. And yet we gather with family,

immediate family, extended family, family of origin.

And a lot of times there's a lot of pain, hurt, grief in that.

Let's let's just talk about that topic for a little bit.

How should we process going into those types of gatherings and

again, specifically as followers of Jesus during the Christmas

season? Yeah, yeah, I have.

I caught myself dealing with one of our members a couple of

months ago and pulling in some other folks to try to help a

situation. And I said, yeah, and they come

from a broken family. And in that moment, it kind of

got on me a little bit that, you know what?

Every family is broken because of sin.

Now, some families have far more damaging consequences, even

generational consequences because of sin and brokenness.

But the reality of it is, is all of our families are broken

because of sin. And for us to have any other

expectations other than the effects of scent, like we're

fooling ourselves, right? So we we should expect some

conflict among centers who are in some ways feeling confined to

the same place over the holidays and you're being forced to

interact with in some ways people you've known your whole

lives. But your lives may not be

intertwined daily, right? And it's interesting to me, like

those are the folks that you have the most conflict with.

So like when I was a kid, the person I fought with most with

was my sister. Not my long term best friend

Greg, right? Fought far more, my sister, you.

Got to pick Greg. Yeah, that's right, you.

Didn't get to pick your sister? That's right, that's right.

So like understanding our roles as as Christians and our

responsibilities to obey God's commands and how we're to

interact with our family, I think it's a big deal because

it'd be easier to trust how we feel and what we want and feel

our gaps and our deficits from our family.

And so they're realizing, yeah, we got the family we got, maybe

not the family we need completely, but what is our

responsibility to to, as Paul says in Romans 12, if it is

possible as far as depends on you, you live at peace with

everyone. How do we go live that out in

our families? Yeah, yeah.

Because it's easy to be reactive, right?

And that's kind of what I was talking about.

The grieving process, even the mourning process of, well, my

family didn't turn out the way I wanted is not the expectations I

have or this is challenging for me.

And, and so we're just reacting, you know, to the the, the heat.

I think you talked about the close confines of family.

I mean, that's can be physical. It's really emotional.

Again, this is not described every family, but I think like

you said, most family has some acute brokenness even in the

best of families. So what does it look like to, to

really take that command of, of being at peace with one another

and loving one another? Well, Joey, can you think of

some practical ways or Whitney of how do, how do we, how do we

do that with those, those folks that we are, we are in familial

relationship, even though we might not be in proximity and

and maybe not even, you know, be in the family of faith together.

What is that help? Help us think through that a

little bit. Yeah, my goal, which I fall

short of, but the goal is that when we are, when we're in

whatever experience we're having together as a family, is that

I'm the biggest center in the room.

And that I cannot hold unrealistic expectations of

others. I cannot hold them accountable

to those expectations that I am to be present, to obey God, to

hold my tongue, to not elevate myself above other people.

Proverbs 19 says it is to one's glory to overlook an offense.

So it doesn't mean we all have to view this world the same way.

I don't have to try to win them to how I view the world.

I don't have to try to win them to, you know, whatever the

argument of the day is, I'm trying to go be a representative

of Christ and his Kingdom in a way that's real evident how I

relate to my family. Yeah, and I have a good family.

My family's normal crazy. Sure.

Yeah, Yeah. Well, I mean, because even

though, I mean, that's such a good picture of trying to insert

a, a, a view of self, a self righteousness that I think eases

some of the tension that we feel because we know that we're

broken. And so if we can find a point of

disagreement that we're pretty clear that we're right on and

leverage that up against the family member, it eases some of

the tension that we feel with our own brokenness.

I mean, and that might be, you might not have ever thought

about it that way, or maybe I'm the only one who's ever done

that, but just fighting against that type of self righteousness.

And I think you just described it perfectly.

That's a that's a goal for all of us because there's only one

that was righteous. That's right.

And I think another layer to the brokenness piece is that we're

all just changing too. So in our women is a grace we'd

like. We talk a lot about season, you

know, and this is true for everybody, that there are new

things that are happening all the time.

There are new seasons that are being entered into.

Children are becoming adults and adults are becoming parents and

parents are becoming grandparents.

And we're always adapting and trying to understand this new

phase that we're in. And so I think that also helps

me to not develop that sense of self righteousness when I'm

like, OK, I can't have the same expectations for my little

brother at the age of 21 that he that I did when he was eight,

you know, and I can't keep seeing him in that then.

And so just also leaving room for as we all change personally,

like relationship dynamics are just going to change over time

as well. And not feeling any guilt about

that. But just like there's just new

things to navigate. So sometimes it's just

brokenness and then sometimes it's just newness that we're

trying to figure out. But a lot of a lot of people

hate change. Some people love it, a lot of

people hate it. And it feels like the idea of

having traditions pushes back even against change.

It's interesting like this tradition means this is the what

we do, the way that we've done it because we've harnessed this

type of Christmas nostalgia from the past.

And so I think that's a good word to being open to change.

And that means that we meet, we, we probably need to do some

mental work. Hopefully you're hearing this in

time to do some mental work so that you're not pushing into a,

a family environment with the same expectations that you've

had for the last five years. Sure.

Yeah. Or the last 25 years, Right.

So Joey, any more thoughts on that?

I mean, yeah, it's just I started reading Proverbs 17 a

while back for myself and I had to just realize that there's

some of the things that are coming out, just not even just

my family and families, a lot of things that are coming out,

those are secondary issues that are really not primary to what's

going on in their heart. And those things are just, those

things are just easier to engage.

And So what I had to do is just start reading Proverbs 17.

At the end of it says a truly wise person uses few words and a

person with understanding is even tempered.

I love this. The last verse says even fools

are thought to be wise when they keep silent and they keep their

mouth shut, they seem intelligent.

And so like as we're gathering with our families and we're

trying to be representative of Christ in his Kingdom, we don't

have to intend every argument we're invited to.

We can be gracious and kind and just be present.

Yeah. And then I think for those

relationships that we do feel like we are responsible for, to,

to further the discipleship in that individual and at the same

time be used by God and to grow in our own relationship with

God. There is a way, one phrase that

I come back to is I want to, it's another way of saying what

you said earlier, love people the way you want to be loved,

right? So if I want people to be

engaged and interested and ask me questions so that I can be

thoughtful and reflectful and have meaningful conversations,

well, you know what I have to do?

I have to be willing to do that for other other folks.

And just just one way to think about that is you can't be good

in conversation if you're not a good listener.

Being a good talker does not mean you're a good conversation.

So as you listen to other people, you have to be willing

to love them the way you want to be loved and, and draw out from

them. Again, this, these are the

people that we feel responsible for like everybody around the

table. You're not in relational

proximity, discipleship proximity too.

I mean, in that moment you are, but I'm talking the long term.

So these are the folks that you feel like God has called you to

play a role in their spiritual formation other than just being

at peace and loving them as brothers and sisters in Christ.

But to be able to listen well and draw out things that they're

saying and ask the next question and then ask the follow up

question and draw on those emotional cues, that can really

change the tenor around the table.

Because what I've found is that most people don't do that very

well. Would you agree?

Yeah, I mean it. It's a thing that I was also not

very good at, that my job has just forced me to cultivate and

has revealed even further how not great of a listener I am.

And it's convicting that if I'm sitting down to do a video or

sitting down to do a podcast, like I'm doing a lot of active

listening, but then when I go home for Thanksgiving, like, I'm

not always as good as devoting that degree of listening to my

own family members. So it's a good challenge.

And I, and I think 1 of an active ingredient in the

community of faith is being able to listen well, to draw out what

people are really thinking and really feeling.

And I mean, one, it takes time. So in the community of faith

where we are walking and doing life together, we use that

phrase a lot. So I'm thinking about your Home

group, folks that you're in, you know, small group with people

that you're in relationship with, you know that you have

touch points every single day. I think part of the challenge is

if we get good, hopefully we're growing and being able to do

that for one another. We get close to those people and

then we go into our immediate family, family of origin and we

may not feel the same closeness. Often we don't and that can be

disorienting, right. You guys have any thoughts on

how to to navigate the the community family of faith versus

family of origin? Yeah, as I think about, that's a

good question. Again, self righteousness has to

die in US. Let me put you this way.

Let me tell you a story with my mother passing when I was 5,

like there was debt. I had deficits in me

relationally and my dad did the best he could.

My grandmother stepped in, my sister.

We, I mean, there was a lot of things that came into play, but

I had real deficits and the household of faith, like the way

that the family of faith. One of the first times I really

experienced that was we went to a meal around the holidays at

someone's house and they cooked for us and we were kind of

playing with their kids. And then the end of dinner, they

went to take our plates away. And I put my hand on the plate

and said, no, I'll take my own plate away.

And I was rebuking as I know you, we are, we are here to

serve you. And you can go play with our

kids or whatever. We'll clean up.

The kitchen will be with you in a little while.

And I never knew I had a deficit in my family of origin until I

had that experience in someone's kitchen that night because it

was so different to me. And that's a small silly example

of the gap that I had that I didn't know I had till it gets

exposed by the family of faith. And we all have that.

Sure, yeah. And so sometimes that is in a

not, you know, we our dad didn't have the emotional intelligence

and availability we needed. And the, the the faith family

can step in and help that sometime our mother was

overbearing and put unrealistic expectations on us.

The family of faith can step in and help with that.

Sometimes we had absent parents who care more about all sorts of

things in the family of faith can step in and help and all

that My my thought would be that we cannot despise.

Exactly, Yeah. We have to be thankful for God

giving us what we need. In some ways we have to

understand we're not going to ever fully get what we need.

That if we try to put the weight of our souls on our families,

even the family of faith, we're going to be disappointed.

Yeah, I was going to say 100%. Yeah, it goes both ways.

And that we have to put the weight of our souls on Christ

and his Kingdom. That's coming one day when the

whole Kingdom is free from sin and its effects.

But for now, every relationship is going to be broken and

imperfect. And we've all got gaps and

deficits that we're trying to figure out how to be faithful

in. Yeah.

And so be thankful that God gives us both family of faith

and family of origin. And sometimes those might be the

same for you. And if, if so, that, that's,

that's great. But just recognizing that you're

going to have different sets of relationships with those two

potentially. And I, because I remember before

I never, no one ever told me that.

And so it was really disorienting for me that I would

do life every day with this group of people.

And then I would drive home with a group of people that I grew up

with and had intense, you know, first, let's say, 18 years of my

life with. But I felt disconnected from

just because we weren't in each other's lives more than seeing

each other a couple times a year and maybe one phone call a

month. And maybe that's on me, you

know, to be A, to be a better whatever, better son, better

brother, a better brother-in-law, a better uncle.

But I mean, I think that that's just the reality.

So then how can we as a church family just be aware and help

one another navigate the the family pressures that come

during Christmas season? Yeah.

I mean, I think one thing I try to do is even just have a list

of three or four people in my life that I do just want to

check in on the holidays. And maybe those are people who

family's not great or, you know, they're older and single, and I

just know they've had a recent law.

It's like, let me just make sure that they have community and

they are not spending Christmas Eve alone, things like that.

And just ways that I can be an encouragement to them.

I think the other thing just for us and on this podcast, we love

talking about abiding. So I have to bring it back up.

I think it is just a unique time when we've got some time off

work to reset and we've got the new year coming and you know

that you're going to have time with your family.

And so and for me, I have to schedule it out because if it's

not on my calendar I won't do it.

You schedule your abiding. I do.

I try to. I think people identify with

that. That's right, whether it's a day

or a few hours and trying to put myself in a different context,

you know, maybe I'd drive a little further away to a coffee

shop or whatever that looks like.

It's it could be going through scripture and the nativity

story. It could be looking through some

of the Old Testament prophecies and how they set up Jesus.

And that's what we're doing with our In That Day series this

month as well, which is providing a lot of great content

for that. But I think more than anything,

like I just don't want to be distracted by what the world is

trying to tell me that the season should be about or the

expectations that I should have for myself and my family.

And this month. But instead, like really trying

to like get excited about what it really should be about and,

and reminding myself of all these things that we've talked

about of like this is a broken world, but it's not going to be

that way forever. Like we'd have this greater

hope. And it started with Jesus.

And like, if I can rally my mind and my soul around those things

and firmly plant them there and get clear on who I am in Christ,

then I think everything else just dissolves into some

background noise. And yeah, doesn't become the

most important thing. Yeah, so being intentional to to

rally your soul by biting, biting with Christ, I think

that's I think that's great. And just a couple of tips when

you talked about checking on folks, I think that's great.

What we don't want to do is, is set up huge expectations of to

get into maybe long conversations.

So what I what I try to do is I just try to text someone and

just say, hey, thinking about you just want to check on you.

I'm here if you need me. No, no response needed.

Or don't feel obligated and just give.

Just take them off the hook. And I've found that people

really appreciate the thoughtfulness and the reminder

that if they do need something that you're available, but then

they don't feel like they have to engage maybe when they're not

not ready to. So I think it's AI mean texting

is a is a great tool, but it can can create some, some

unnecessary angst. So just give people permission

to to not have to respond. That's awesome, yeah.

So Joey, you have some? Thoughts.

No, I totally agree. If like the question is, how are

we being a devoted, faithful witness to those around us as we

go into the season and they're heading to their family.

So the idea of shooting a text, a handwritten letter, not making

it about you making it about them where they feel seen and

loved and cared for and engaged and provided hope.

It's so powerful to me. So my my dad passed away in

October of 19 and there is someone connected to our family

who's not part of our church but he's a Christian and every

holiday I know by 8:00 AM I'm going to have a note from him.

And it's just hey, thinking about you praying for you.

Let me know if if you need to talk.

And he, he's faithful in that. And it is such an encouragement

to me and even spurs me along. If I'm going to be like a

devoted, faithful witness, someone is doing that for me.

And it creates a responsibility to help me think through, OK,

who do I need to be doing that for?

That's great. So it nurtures your soul, it

models and it exhorts you to to go do that for others.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's again,

like love others the way you want to be loved.

And in that case, the way you are receiving love.

I think that's great. So just like Whitney mentioned,

we do have a sermon series this particular December where we're

we're just trying to keep us oriented.

So make sure that you are taking full advantage of that.

There are literally hundreds of Advent guides, devotionals.

I mean, you know, we're a couple of weeks in at this point, but

you don't don't lose the opportunity to have that kind of

thoughtful reflection. And then one thing about our

Christmas Eve services, I mean, Christmas Eve can be the most

hectic day of the year. You cannot run into a Christmas

Eve service and slam on the brakes with your family all

dressed up, ready for pictures and try to get anything

spiritual out of it. You have to prepare yourself if

you wanted to be a meaningful spiritual experience to to go

into that with all of these emotions and expectations and

thoughts that we've talked about.

And really just try to center yourself and just commit your

soul to receiving, you know, from one another, from the word

and ultimately through the the presence of the spirit in your

life. OK.

But their obstacle, an obvious obstacle in all this is just the

busyness of the season guys. So I mean December becomes

almost like two months worth of activities or more.

So how do we how do we tame the busyness so that we can address

everything else we've talked about?

Yeah, I think we have to see busyness for what it is.

It's a distraction from Christ and we're, I mean.

Business is one of the idols of our age, there's no doubt.

And it gets compounded this time of year when you get the next

invitation to this event, this thing in your neighborhood, the

company Christmas party. We always go and do this.

Like all that just puts pressure on you.

And so trying to figure out what are the things we need to say

yes to and what are the things we need to say no to.

You're going to say no to some good things because what we

don't want to do is be so distracted and things to be so

noisy for us over Christmas that we miss out on really sacred

moments that we could experience together because it'd be easy.

I mean, it's as easy to say yes to everything and be like, we've

got four things this week at this weekend.

We're going to this, we're going to that and really miss out on

what it's like to be quiet, reflective, contemplative,

engaging the Scriptures with other people, looking forward to

worshiping together as we celebrate Christ together as a

church, and then just consuming all those things versus

connecting with God and other people.

Yeah, so ask, give yourself permission and follow through

with asking yourself why are we doing this?

Why? Why is this necessary?

Why are we doing this? Is this just something?

Is this a tradition we've always done?

Is this just something fun? Is this something that is a

cultural expectation that we do? But how do we not let the

busyness crowd out the sacred spaces?

I I really like that and even more deeply become a medication

for the soul for some of these feelings, whether it's the grief

through loneliness, singleness, family conflict, just personal

struggle mean you can medicate your soul with busyness and

guess what's going to happen? January is going to come and you

were going to feel more more empty because you may have

missed some opportunities for some real engagement that took a

little more effort, but the positive type of sacred

engagement was there and it just took a little honesty and

vulnerability to get to. So well, guys, what we've done

today, I mean, we've really kind of focused in on some of the

challenges. We don't want to negate all the

joy, right? You said, you said this earlier,

like so much to be thankful, so much beauty, so much glory, so

much gratitude. And and so we're not trying to

be killjoys. We we acknowledge all of that.

In fact, what we're trying to do is we're trying to mediate some

of the other things that keep you from experiencing that.

That's right. So that we can really be full

worshippers this this season. So any closing thoughts?

Yeah, just if if we're rejoicing this Christmas or if we're

weeping this Christmas, or if it's a mingling of the two,

which for most of us it's a mingling of the two.

Finding time to meditate on the significance of God being with

us in Christ and let the truth of his presence be a real anchor

for our soul. Again, whether we're rejoicing

or whether we're weeping and believing that we can have real

joy and contentment through all that.

Yeah, and then just on the more practical level, I would say

what I to recap what we've already said, like look out for

your church family, be looking for people who just need the

encouragement, but also feel free to ask your church for

help, like reach out to your church family as you need things

and need support this holiday season.

Yeah. And remember, because God sees,

Yeah. So we want to see the way God

sees, and God loves, and we want to love the way God loves.

And we can do that because we are fully known and fully loved

by God. And so don't doubt that.

Encourage yourself with that truth of the good news.

And may that be the fuel for your worship and your love of

others this season. So, guys, thanks for this

conversation. I think it's been helpful.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you, ma'am.

All right. Merry Christmas, everybody.

Yeah, Merry. Christmas.