EP 55: 3 Hidden Challenges to Studying Scripture

And so I, I would say that if we are thinking about the

challenges to studying the Bible, I would put the, the lack

of tools or the lack of knowledge of a method, I would

put that down the list. I would say that that's

actually, I'm going to put that at #4 And I think there are

three significant challenges that we have to be honest and

have to face before we even get to observing and interpreting

and applying. Hey everyone, and welcome back

to the Grace Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Manus,

and we've got our first episode of 2026 today.

Element took us a little while to get through some ice and snow

and sickness and the Olympics and all that good stuff, but we

are back in the studio looking forward to some good

conversations this year. And we want y'all to know, we're

always praying that this podcast would just be a resource that

helps you grow in your spiritual formation, think about life in

the world through a biblical lens, and ultimately that God

would just transform all of us into new creations by changing

the way we think. We always want that to be at the

forefront of our mind. So with that in mind, I've got

Scott here with me. Good to see you, Scott.

It is good to be here, Whitney. And you're right, we do have

some great topics and speakers lined up.

Guests, I guess would be the more appropriate word.

So really excited about what we've got in store for 2026.

For sure. And today, Scott, you get to

teach a class with our interns in residence on how to study the

Bible. And so that's obviously a huge

value of ours to be biblically oriented.

And we thought there was no better way to start this year

than talking about being in the Word.

And particularly just around this idea of, I think we would

all agree that studying in Scripture is one of the most

important spiritual disciplines we can do.

But then, if we're all honest about it, it seems to be one of

the most difficult ones to do well and to do regularly.

And at least for me, I feel like the solution can sometimes tend

to be like Nike slogan, like just do it.

Yeah, just whatever you got to do, just do it.

And then you do it for a little while and you're like, I don't

know the The thing is just. Grind it, grind it out.

Coming from this, you know, or maybe even worse, like some

implication that like, you know, I just don't think you love God

enough. And if you did, then you would

prioritize it. And I'm like, I do think that's

kind of the point. Like, you know, in my sin, I do

not love God the way that I should.

And that's what I need Scripture for.

It's this the cycle and those aren't untrue, but they're just

incomplete. And so we really just want to

pose today, what is the at the root of our difficulty to read

scripture and how can we take helpful steps to grow in that

discipline. So I'll have you answer all of

that in perfectly ready for us. Well, I mean, it is daunting

because we have this pressure, expectation, knowledge that this

is the word of God and it's vital to our relationship with

God. And then we look at the book and

we're like, man, that is a really big book.

That's right. And.

With thin pages. Yeah, and it's like the old,

new, lots of different authors, things I don't understand.

I mean, and it can, if we're not in the right mindset when we

come to God's Word, then we can really set ourselves up with

failure. So it is nice to talk about a

method, a strategy, and so why don't we just start there and

then let's that'll take us on a little bit of journey and hit a

few different topics as it relates to Bible study.

Yeah. And so wait, what do you mean by

a method? Can define that for.

Us yeah, it's a method. It's just, it's a strategy, it's

a plan. It's, it's a starting point.

It's something that I have in my mind when I come to the

scriptures as a way to approach them.

That's not just OK, I'm going to, I'm going to just start

here. You know, I'm going to turn the

Bible to a pay random page. I'm going to put my finger down

and I'm going to start and I'm not really going to know what

I'm reading and, or even maybe even why.

You know, like I said, I, I, I know it's important to be with

God in his word, but I don't know how to do that.

So what's, what's my, what's my plan to, to go into a time of

studying and we'll talk about the difference here in a second.

And so let me just give you the, the, the, the idea of what one

way to study the Bible is. And there's, there's, there's

several ways, but I just like to break it down into 3 categories,

right? So a method is a strategy or

plan. Here's your plan, 3 categories.

Ask basically these questions you observe and you interpret

and you apply. So those are your three areas.

And then these are your questions.

When you observe, you're just really saying, what do I see

here in the Scriptures? So I'm trying to forget some of

my presuppositions, and I'm really just asking lots of

questions of the text. So what do I see?

We'll come back to each of these in a second.

Interpret, what does it mean? So interpret, what does it mean?

So I have to see before I can interpret.

And then application, what should I do?

So what do I see? What does it mean?

What should I do? Observe, interpret, apply.

So you know, you may have heard the road ROAD which is read,

observe, apply, depend, same idea.

I think we used to teach in Grace Church kids SOAP, which

was scripture Observe, apply, depend.

So same same ideas, even 7 arrows.

That's right, yeah. You've done some work there.

Yeah. It's really kind of, I guess you

pick the number of steps that you want to, right.

But the, the, it all does boil down to really those 3

categories. And yeah, like we're not

necessarily here to ascribe one that is better than the other.

Some of it depends on your personality, but it those are

the general principles that we bring.

And you mentioned a second ago, So we're talking about studying

today. What is the difference between

studying my Bible verses? Like I'm just, I'm sitting down

and reading it. Yeah.

So in this, you know, method is just an anchoring point, right,

for for study. And when I mean study, I mean

study means slow. So study means give yourself

some grace. Yeah.

And when I say study, I mean one verse, 5 verses, 7 verses, half

a chapter. I'm talking about pen in hand.

Some people like to use markers for me, I think with a pen in my

hand. So I'm circling, I'm

underlining, I'm, I'm going through these steps,

particularly observation, right? I'm looking for keywords and

cause and effect statements and commands and linking words and,

and a copy of a simple Bible study outline is, is in your

show notes. So we're not going to go through

it step by step. That's not the point of this

podcast. But as you work through an

outline, you've got your pen. I would say get a Bible that you

feel OK about writing in. You know, there was this really

sweet girl last year and Guy Ross, and she's like, I can't

write in my Bible. I was like, OK, well, then go

buy another one, right? Like.

I've got mine, it's got the little lines on the.

Side adrenaline bottle. I'll write too much and then I

can't see what the actual words say, so I have to write next.

To it or everybody has access to some kind of printer.

So just you know, go on Bible Gateway and just copy and paste

and drop it in a Word document. Just something that you can just

slow down and, and study. And so why, why is that

different? Like reading, reading the Bible

is an important discipline and it's really should be a daily

discipline. And I'm, I'm trying to

distinguish that from studying where you might just have a

couple times a week where you're studying.

You just need to know how to study.

Reading needs to be a daily discipline.

Most of the of the books, particularly New Testament, you

could read in under 30 minutes. Certainly Paul's epistles you

could do in under 20 minutes. And so read those like you would

read any other book, any other literature.

Yeah, start at the beginning, right?

Read through to the end and get the full understanding.

And that's, that's different than what we're talking about

today. Right.

So we're not necessarily saying like seven days a Week, 2 hours

wake up at 4:00 AM, like study, work through this whole process

every single day. And I know that brings a little

bit of consternation for some of our folks.

So we have a number of people doing reading through the

scriptures. Yeah.

And I'm leading that on Tuesday nights in Travelers Rest.

And we've had a number of people there say I just can't, I can't

study it the way I want. I want to be in the commentaries

and I want to be seeing what other people say.

And I want to slow down and I want to what you're talking

about with a pen. And I'm like, that's different,

right? Like we're, we're reading

through the scripture and we are just trying to practice the

daily discipline of being in God's word and seeing what jumps

off the page at US. And, and yeah, we are, we're

definitely missing some stuff that's by design, right?

Because we're developing a, a, a muscle of reading today.

We're talking about developing a muscle of studying, right?

And so, I mean, let me give you this example.

So, you know, my son's in college and when we use the word

studying, right, he's studying for an exam.

But really what he's doing is he's trying to cover a large

amount of material, a large number of concepts to hopefully

be proficient enough to make a passing grade on an exam.

And we call that studying. And you know exactly what I'm

talking about. Everybody has been in that

situation where you are trying to cover a huge amount of a

material, and we do call that studying.

That's not what I'm talking about here.

What I'm talking about here is think if you are an artist,

let's say you're a portrait artist and you have someone

sitting in front of you and you are drawing their portrait.

You are studying every aspect of their face, every line, every

curve, every beautiful part of their face to be able to emulate

that in the work that you're doing.

So you are studying and you slow down and you this illustration

work because you do it with a a pen in hand and and you are

creating something, I think about museums.

Yeah. Do you have a favorite museum?

I humblebrag studied abroad in Spain and I do love the Prado

OK. Prada is a great example.

So particularly any of our large museums, United States or

abroad, my big beef is that people do not really prepare you

well to go to a museum. True.

Because like you go to a museum and people say, oh man, you

could have spent all day in there.

Well, no, you could have spent weeks in there.

You could have spent months in there.

And really the best way to benefit from being in a museum

is to find something that interests you and just study it,

linger there and take it all in because you can't really get the

breadth of everything in any given museum.

What you do is you just get tired from walking.

Yeah. And, and it's, it's I've had

some really great days in museums and I've had some really

disappointing days because I didn't have the right mindset

going into what it was I trying to accomplish.

And I'll tell you. So a good day for me was we

were, we were in Rome and we went to the Vatican Museum and I

knew I wanted to get to the Sistine Chapel and I knew it was

at the very end. It was at the very back of the

tour. And so I wasn't on a tour.

That's the first thing. It's like self-guided, right?

So self-guided for me went meant fast walking through every other

aspect, all these amazing rooms with incredible works of art and

sculptures and you name it. But I just just wanted to get

into the Sistine Chapel so that I could study the ceiling and

the work of Michelangelo. Yeah, and it was great.

But I had a plan, right? I had a method.

And I wanted to get to a point where I could just linger and

really take it all in. Yeah.

And both of those are good examples because, yeah, we think

about studying, we think about cramming for an exam and we

procrastinate a little bit. We got to do it quickly.

Or Yeah, when we went to the Prado and my professor wants to

look at 1 portrait and talk about it for 30 minutes.

And I'm like, man, this is my one chance to see everything in

here. You keep talking here.

I'm going to wander around and see everything, which isn't bad,

but like, that's just not going to help me really understand

that one artist. And this is a book written by

one artist whom we do want to know very deeply.

Yeah. And so it really comes down to

what are our expectations and what are we trying to accomplish

when we come to the Bible? And and maybe even that word

isn't a good word like accomplishing.

Right. For sure.

And so I, I would say that if we are thinking about the

challenges to studying the Bible, I would put the the lack

of tools or the lack of knowledge of a method, I would

put that down the list. Yeah.

I would say that that's actually, and, and what I'm

going to, what I'm going to give you, I'm going to put that at #4

And I think there are three significant challenges that we

have to be honest and have to face before we even get to

observing and interpreting and applying.

Does that make sense? Yeah, which is helpful because I

would, I think that most of us would probably say the the

method like we don't know how and we'll start there.

So then if that's number four, yeah.

What are those other challenges? Yeah, and I'll tell you how I

got there. I'm not going to give you the

first one just yet. I'm going to tease it out

because you're, you just want to write a list, right?

We all do. It's like, well, tell me what

they are so I can go accomplish those things and get to #4 But

here's how I got there. I just started talking to our

students and I just said, why should I study the Bible?

And we would have these amazing lists of, you know, it's God,

he's the creator, he all these attributes of him.

It tells us about his relationship to us and sin and

salvation. And not just that, but it's a

practical pieces of life. And he cares so much about the

details and all this. I mean, it was just like

unbelievable list of the attributes and goodness of God

and his word. And then I was like, OK, well,

what keeps us from studying God's word?

And it would be things like, well, I don't know how, or I

don't have time or I don't really, I'm busy or I don't

really understand the, the relevance.

And I, I would just look at those two lists and I'm like,

OK, guys, this does not add up. There's something, there's a,

there's a, there's an emotional, spiritual, psychological

connection here that doesn't add up.

Because if I believed everything that you tell me about God in

his word, there is nothing, there's nothing that would stop

me from figuring out what a fifth grader can do here when

they exercise three steps, observe, interpret, apply.

So what does that mean? That means there's something

else that's going on. I think common in all of us,

which is the way a lot of us have been taught to, to think

about information, right? So if we view the Bible as

information, then we're already going down the wrong track.

OK, So if I view the Bible as information, then I'm thinking

the the way that I would think about, you know, going back,

showing my age here, but all the way back to encyclopedias,

right. So you get a you get a

assignment in school to do a report is what we used to call

them a report in elementary school.

And you would report on this country or this topic.

And so where would you get your information?

Well, you'd get it from an encyclopedia.

Yeah. Right.

And so we all had Britannica World Book in our homes and it

was awesome. It was actually really, really

cool. Yeah.

Because that was cutting edge at the time, Right.

And then there would be all these, like, magazines, things.

You could go look in the periodicals, and then you could

go look at other books and then their online books.

And then now we have the Internet.

And, gosh, now we have AI. So information is clearly at our

fingertips when we're carrying around computers in our pocket.

And information is not really the issue.

But what if that's the way we think about the Bible is that

we're strictly using it for information?

Yeah. And that is going to be a

challenge to study because honestly, let me just say the

quiet part out loud. Like I don't, I don't really

need any more information right now.

Yeah. Because things are going pretty

well. And well, I've got enough

everywhere else and I'm a little overloaded if I'm honest.

That's right. So, so, so let me give this

analogy and everybody give me grace and think the best of me

here. But I think about it like my

car. So my car is very functional.

It gets me from place to place, and then when a warning light

comes on, I'm like, oh, shoot, right, I got to do something you

don't. Think about it until it's not

doing what it's supposed to. Where's the where's the manual?

Yeah, that's going to tell me what's wrong.

And that manual is in the glove box.

Everybody's manual's in the glove box.

And then you grab the manual and you flip through the manual and

you try to find out what the problem is so that you can kind

of solve the problem. If what if that's our view of

Scripture? Yeah.

Where, you know, God is somebody.

That kind of gets me from place to place and I don't really know

and I don't really understand and I don't really question it

as long as I'm going to places that I want to go.

And then, but what if I there's a new challenge, there's a

relational challenge, there's an opportunity, there's something

I'm not quite sure about and I need some guidance.

I need the manual. Then I go grab the manual and I

flip and I'm like, OK, God, show me what to do, right?

Or this is always a strong point when I'm teaching this with our

students. When did you feel closest to God

and his word and drawn into study?

Well, it was in a difficult time of, of suffering when you really

needed God to be all of those attributes that you gave me in

that first list, right? You needed him to be sovereign.

You needed him to be good. You needed him to be holy.

You needed him to be right. You needed him to be in charge.

And you needed to draw near to all that truth.

And so then it's like we don't have anything else to do but to

go to God's Word, right? Yeah.

So it's almost like what motivates us in the in the most

difficults of times shows some of our weaknesses in the easiest

or best of times. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And we did Samson with our

students during retreats last year and kind of made that point

of Samson has been incredibly blessed and he kind of squanders

that takes advantage of it. But then now we're reading

Joseph in the life of Joseph in Genesis, and it's actually the

opposite. He has this life of difficulty,

but he actually is more faithful in that.

So that paradigm we do see that even reflected in Scripture.

Yeah, so I would just so let me just tell you the way I

summarize the the number one challenge to our Bible study is,

is really a lack of devotion, a lack of devotion to God seeing,

not seeing God clearly for who he is.

So therefore we have a misguided way that we view the Scriptures.

And, and so I think about what if it was less of a manual?

And maybe, maybe that again, give me the give me some grace

here. Maybe manual's too strong.

But, but, but maybe it's this, it's this knowledge base, It's

this whatever you would, whatever word you would put on

it. I, I would say, is it a letter?

Like, do you see it as a letter? Do you see it as something that

God has written to his people? Augustine has this great quote

where he says the Bible is our love letters from home.

And I just, I just think about that.

I'm like, OK, if I, if I viewed it as a letter that was deeply

relational and personal. And again, it's kind of hard in

the age of texting and emails and all kinds of form of

communication. But what if I went back and I

was having to write letters to someone and receiving letters

from someone that I loved dearly.

When I got that letter, I would pour over it every single word.

I would study it. I would slow down, I would

linger. And because there's depth,

there's depth to all that, that that's what God's Word is.

Yeah, it's something that's written very personally to you

and not just to you, but like to you as much as to anybody else.

As opposed to a car manual where Toyota was like we are going to

write this for whoever drives our car and we don't really know

or care anything about them. Yeah, I mean, and so I would say

the down to make too strong of a connection right to the

Pharisees. I'm not saying we're all

Pharisees, but I see the human nature.

The challenge of all human nature is to make it about

knowledge, to push it through our own agenda.

And so when they came to Jesus, he has this famous saying when

they're like, he's like, I'm going to summarize all of the

commands of Scripture for you and two things.

Love the Lord your God, heart, soul, mind, strength, love your

neighbor as yourself. Matthew 2237 and following.

And the Pharisees, they knew the word.

Yeah, they knew the word, but they didn't know the person.

Yeah. And so that's what I would say

the number one challenge is making sure that we're

approaching the Scripture to know the person, the person of

God and what he has written. Not necessarily to us, because

we weren't 1st century Christians if we're thinking

about the New Testament, but it was written for us as people

that he loved and his son to die for.

And so understanding that is, I think the it's not just number

one, it's like #1 ABC and D is to examine our devotion, how we

view God, because how we view God is going to interpret how we

view the Scriptures. Yeah, for sure.

OK, so #1 lack of devotion and making sure that we are coming

to Scripture with the author in mind and with a personal

relationship as the root of this, of how we are interacting

with this book. Yeah.

And understanding just the big picture that we have one author

working and through multiple human authors, we have one

story, a redemptive story from Genesis to Revelation and not

making ourselves the center of the story.

You know, we talk about being self-made and main character

syndrome, like this is a story about God.

Yes. So if we come to it

understanding what that we want to understand God, well, then

I'm I'm never going to exhaust that.

You know, it's never going to be a manual.

It's never going to be a trivia book.

It's never going to be a self help book.

It's always going to be something that I can learn from

because I'm desiring to know my father more.

Finding ourself in the story, but understanding that the story

is not about us, it's about God. Yeah, that's great.

That's if you could just do that, then that just shapes

everything. And so the second one where we

struggle is within just a lack of curiosity.

Yeah. And it could be a lack of

curiosity about God, big picture.

But really what I think about is just a lack of curiosity.

You know, when I'm looking at the Gospels of, well, what was

it like to live in 1st century Jerusalem?

You know, so if, if we're using names and places of, of names of

people I've never met and places I've never been, well, am I

curious about who these people are and where those places are

and what some of the customs are and how like I, I just have to

come to scripture with fresh eyes and then ask just lots of

questions. And, you know, I find that this

is more difficult to cultivate the longer you've been a

Christian because you're like, yeah, I, I know that, I know

that text. Yeah, I know that passage.

I know that story. And it's like, well, do you,

what, what if you didn't? Could you come back and look at

it again for the, for the first time?

And, and so the, the curiosity, I think is a, is a big part that

it keeps us from taking verses out of context, right?

I, I, you know, I talk about coffee cup Christianity and, you

know, just having these, these verses, these sayings that get

floated around. Now I could, it could be like

social, social media Christianity, but you know, like

Philippians 413. I can do all things through

Christ who strengthens me. Hobby Lobby Sign versus.

I'll be careful now and I and I think about, I think about

shooting free throws, right? And sporting events.

I can do all things through Christ.

And it's like, well, am I curious about like, so Paul, I

think, yeah. Who wrote that?

Paul? Where was he in prison?

What's the context? Go back and read it.

I mean, it's very, very, very different when you are just

curious, right? For I know the plans I have for

you, plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you

hope in the future. Jeremiah 2911, every great

graduation verse. And so instead of just kind of

taking that and making yourself the center of it, but like, OK,

well, who who's Jeremiah and who's he writing to?

And why did he say that? And what are they struggling

with? And then what you find is that

the way that we've reduced a lot of these verses, it's not that

it's incorrect. Can I do all things through

Christ who strengthens me? I can't do anything without

Christ. Everything I do comes from

Christ who strengthens me. But for what purposes?

So Paul helps fill out those purposes.

You know, does God have a plan? Yeah, It's incredible that God

has a plan. But when you go back and you

you're doing the Old Testament study, you're like, oh, these

are to people who have suffered the worst consequence of

disobeying God. Yeah.

Who've been kicked out of the land, Who've been exiled for 70

years. Yeah.

And he comes to them with this type of hope and this type of

promise like it's, I often say, you know, it's not incorrect,

it's just incomplete. And we're we with the lack of

curiosity, we are content with reading the Bible in in black

and white. Like not literally black and

white, but think black and white television when we have like HD

surround sound available to us. If we'll just be curious, yeah.

For sure. And we'll, we'll tag these in

the show notes. But it reminds me of Mike

Tibera's episode last year where we talked about loving learning

and always being a learner, you know, and cultivating that

curiosity. And then our episode with Jackie

Davenport where she talks about the joy of discovering something

or you have to go digging a little bit.

But the work that you did, the research that you did, makes it

so much richer, you know? And when you have that

curiosity, it means that you're really looking for something

beautiful at the end of the journey.

And so both of those I'm sure apply to this as well.

Yeah, and it's in that section of that's the interpretation

section, if you will, right. I mean, it kind of blends from

from observation into interpretation.

And so yes, if you if you're slowing down and you're curious,

then you can go and use some resources.

You can ask the Internet. OK, tell me about this place.

Can I see some pictures? Who is this person?

Go read some commentaries, do some cross referencing, just

linger there and enjoy the learning aspect of it all.

If you remain curious. And just a word, we got to be

careful with some of the kind of motion picture adaptations of

the Gospels particularly. But I think like the Chosen I'm

thinking about, there's something about that that's

super helpful because it does challenge our imagination and

our curiosity. Now, don't let that be your

gospel, whatever depiction you have of Jesus, but it's probably

needs to be compared against whatever picture of Jesus you

have in your own mind. Yeah.

And so just thinking about all of that and then, you know, I've

had a chance to to lead a few trips over to Israel.

And that is the ultimate example of picking your curiosity and

then kind of seeing and smelling and walking in these different

Old Testament, New Testament places.

And so, but you can do all that as a curious Bible student.

And that's what I'm jealous for. And we just as a general

challenge, and this is for me too, we as a culture just are

not curious across the board, not just on this topic.

We'll keep talking about it and other subjects as well, but I

think it's a good challenge for us in the ultimate information

age where we have everything accessible to us.

It has over saturated us in such a way where we have lost our

ability to be curious a little bit.

Put an exclamation point on that statement you just made.

And the curiosity drives, particularly if you're, if

you're listening to this and you're thinking about what is,

what is ministry look like? How do I serve people?

That's what a minister does. How do I serve people with the

word? You can't do that without

curiosity. Yeah.

Curiosity is what keeps you from being self-centered and

self-made. So yeah, put an exclamation

point by that. And then the last one, we, this

is a little more obvious, but just the failure to apply.

So if we talk about observe, interpret and apply and you're,

you're slowing down and you're doing the work.

The truth is like when you get done interpreting and when you

interpret and you come up with this principle, OK, what, what

was God saying to this group of people that feels really good.

Like I feel smart. Yeah.

I feel like I've learned something.

I've learned something of significance.

I've had my my mind challenged. I've had my presuppositions

challenged. I've been curious.

And So what I really want to do is I want to stop there and I

want to write it down and I want to celebrate it.

And I want to say I've grown. I've checked the box, I did it

MO. And the, and the truth is like

this big step that God is saying, no, this word is for you

to apply into your life because I want my word to saturate your

mind and your soul, and I want it to change every area of your

life. And then that's where I'm like,

well, I'm pretty good with most areas of my life.

Can you just change these two right?

And and it's like, well, no, that doesn't work because if

anyone is a new creation, 2nd Corinthians 517 says, then then

all has passed away and God is recreating everything in our

life. So that's every single area.

And so I have to ask the question, you know, what, what

is, what is the command that I should follow here?

What is the sin I should avoid? What is the example?

What is God trying to do through his word to change me and

conform me into the image of Christ?

And so I like to say that we know that knowledge is bad,

right? We know that knowledge puffs up.

We've heard those passages. And we're not just knowledge for

knowledge sake. OK, so here's where we've made a

compromise. What we've done is we like

insight. Yeah, INSIGH.

T we are on a podcast so got to be careful.

Podcasts. That's why we like reading books

about the Bible and what people think about the Bible more than

we like the Bible. It's why we do like podcasts.

It's why we do like devotional books.

Sorry I'm stepping on some toes. I know of mine included.

But we, we would rather read what other people say so we can

inter we we can evaluate whether we agree with them or not.

Right. Yeah.

You know, it's why when we're in a study and we're supposed to be

talking about like the scripture that's taught, we're talking

about how the scripture was taught and how it was shared and

which illustrations were used as opposed to actually talking

about the scripture. And I mean, this is just common

issue for all of us. And I'm just saying, what's the

title of this podcast? These are challenges that we

have to study in the Bible. And so don't settle for insight.

And I think that is a good challenge for us because I do

know for myself, like I have a tendency to be in the word and,

you know, be going through, I'm going through Joshua right now

and you kind of finish and I'm like, is it working?

Like I don't, which first of all, that shows that my approach

to scripture is like what I want to get out of it, right, Right.

So we got to go back to what you said earlier.

But then I do think that I have to come back to a point of it's

like, well, am I actually applying right what I'm reading

here? And so if I never take what I

read and like activate it into my life, then no, there's not

going to be fruit and change. And so then I think we get to a

place with Scripture where we're like, well, I don't really know

that I'm getting much out of this, but we're not really

allowing it to. Yeah, that's right.

And so think about how does that work?

You know, if you have a continuum and knowledge is on

one side and what we're shooting for is wisdom on the other, then

insight is just just near knowledge.

And so how do you move? Well, I put something into

practice and then I evaluate. OK, Well, so I trusted God in

that. I took a step of faith.

I said something, I moved towards someone.

I served him this way, I gave him this way.

I believed. I read whatever I did now, OK,

what difference change maturing growth did that make?

And sometimes it feels like I'm going backwards.

And so I'll take a step and I evaluate and then I take another

step and I evaluate and I take another step and I evaluate.

And it's almost like as a toddler learns to walk and you

just see them take a step and take a step and take a step.

And sometimes they fall, sometimes they cry, but they're

moving forward. But we're moving forward because

we're not content just to sit in our insight.

And I'll just give you this, the analogy to think about.

It's why everybody's so frustrated with the news these

days because you're like, now is that true?

Are are you giving me the facts or are you giving me your

opinion, your commentary, your insight on the facts?

And then when we're discipled by the algorithm, that's really all

that we're being discipled by is our own, our own desire for

insight and our own interpretation and our own

likes. And and so we just get fooled.

And so when we go to the Scriptures, you know, like this

is the news. Yeah.

This is the good news, yeah, this is the gospel, and it's

enough, yeah. And God has given you the

ability. If you just exercise a method, a

plan, a strategy, and then you also are honest about the own

personal challenges you face. I mean, God wants you to know

Him through His Word. He wants you to be able to

interpret His Word. He's given you the power through

the Spirit to apply His Word. Everything is going in your

favor. And so we just have to put forth

the effort to meet this God in His Word, so that by His Spirit

in community, the Father can do the work that He wants to do in

this. Yeah, and it goes without

saying, but that takes patience. Yes.

And it takes time. Yeah.

And there's a lot of grace involved, right.

And so those are all great. And, and just as we kind of wrap

up here, I mean, I feel this for myself.

And I'm sure that there's some other performance tendency,

people who feel this to where, you know, I do my best.

I come to Scripture in the word. I'm reading, I'm doing some

studying and at the end of the day, after some months and years

of that, I'm like, I just, I don't feel like I'm doing it

right. Like no matter what I do, I've

changed my method, I've changed my approach and schedule and

everything and I just never feel like I've, I've done it right.

Like what? What would you say for us in

that? Yeah, I think it's like if

you're thinking about a friendship and you're trying to

evaluate all the things that you said and did in the friendship,

and if the friendship really loved you, if it was really

relational, then there it's not about right and wrong.

It's about it's about knowing that person.

And so when we come to Scripture with the desire to know God as

opposed to know about God or know about our life and how God

fits in, things change dramatically.

And but then you're like, I don't think there is a right way

to do this. No, I'm not talking about wrong

interpretation of Scripture. I'm talking about coming with

the motive of I want to hear and see and experience God through

his word and let that give me humility and confidence to

change. What happens over time is you

realize that the Bible is not like some a book to be mastered.

Yeah. What it really is, it is it is

food and nourishment for the soul that we're to feed on.

And I'm a student and I want to make an A in my class.

That's right, it's not a class. When what you really need is you

really need daily bread. Yeah, you really need daily

bread. You don't need a Bible answer

man. You need a father who gives good

gifts to his children. And so if that is the case, then

what you've it just takes a little while to get that

operating system of doing something the right way and

being outcome based out of your system.

But if you will just commit to the process of just saying, all

right, God, I am here, you are here, let's talk.

And so that means I'm praying that means I'm praying over

scripture. I'm praying through Scripture

and and really all that sounds super spiritual.

I'm just saying just be still. Yeah, be slow.

Be still, be slow, be curious, be courageous because your

application is really more about courage.

Application is about courage. And then just be honest.

Yeah. And that's where the lack of

devotion comes from. Just be honest and say, God, I

am all about myself right now and I need to lose myself and

forget myself and really come to you as a father who has good

words for his children. And so will you be be present in

this in this time. And that should also be the

posture of our of our Bible reading.

But what I what I think is that study fills our reading.

Reading fills our study. They are not in opposition to

one another. It's just time with God in His

Word. Yeah, I think that's great.

That's super helpful and and it's really encouraging for me

and I hope it is for y'all as well.

I hope it just takes some pressure off and helps us

reorient our focus less on the knowledge and the information

and what we can get out of it. But getting to know a father,

getting to know a person who is written as very detailed letters

for the relationship to get to know him.

So thanks MO for for walking us through that.

And yeah, for y'all. We'll put some resources in the

show notes. And like always, we just

encourage you if you have questions, ask your staff, ask

your leaders, ask the mature followers around you, and just

hope that this spurs on further conversations on, Yeah, what it

looks like for us to study God's word well and ultimately seek

his heart to get to know him better.

So we'll see you guys next time on the Grace Church Podcast.

See ya.