Joanie Lagmark Testimony

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Draweth Nigh. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the program. I

am your host, Matthew. Tonight we're doing a very special testimony from our

good friend Joni. So I'm just going to give her the mic and let

her uh, let her tell you who she is and where she's coming from.

So give me your opening comments, Johnny. Okay, thank you for

having me. I'm Joni Logmark. I'm from San Antonio, Texas. At

least, this is where I've lived for since two thousand, so this is

my home. I raised two children here and I'd like to share my testimony.

Well, that's what we're here to do, and that can be very

difficult for some people. But you've obviously came on because you think that this

needs to be heard. You think people needs to hear this correct. Yes,

why do you think that it has just recently changed entirely. I've learned

something profound and new, and about two weeks ago, my head's spun around,

and I realized something entirely new, and I do address that in my

testimony so I could say it then I can say it now. Well,

you are not new to this ministry, so you should have been acquainted with

learning things and having your head spin around. I was. But this was

something born out of what I call the tapes of my past, the doctrinal.

I've also called it like a cage. I've described it like a cage

that was over me. And through the years I've known you, Matthew now

and been learning with our group for is it fourteen years or about fourteen years,

And in the early days it was sort of almost impossible to absorb things

because they were coming through this, trying to come through this cage. And

I know the Holy Spirit was saying, stick it out, stick it out,

Read your Bible, Read your Bible, Read the Bible, and keep

trying trying. And then God began to teach me little things here and there.

But I knew all along, like this is the truth. But I

would have such a hard time grasping sometimes because of the tapes. The best

the cage that was over me, of the doctrines that were just talked to

me all my life, and so I was always, you know, I

would learn something new and I would lay it over the old stuff and it

wouldn't make sense to me. So I don't know if I'm making if I'm

explaining that well, but sometimes it was hard to learn new things until the

Lord began to strip away the old things and help me as I studied his

word, and I mean as I studied the Bible. That's the only way

it began to change. So I'm going to ask you a question, but

I just want you to answer generally. I don't want you to get in

that topic kit because there'll be a time for that when that comes. So

this event that you experienced a couple of weeks ago, you said, did

this have to do with knowledge? Did this have to do it like some

technical term in the Greek or the Hebrew? No? Okay, all right,

So with that in mind, so it was not technical information. It's

it's like I just shared today, the simple fact that the ratio for pi

three point one four is incorporated into Ezekiel chapter twenty four many times. This

doesn't have anything to do with anything like that. No, So now that

we've give everybody a heads up, that whatever happened a couple of weeks ago

was not like that. It wasn't it wasn't in depth data about the Bible.

So you just need to do this the way that the Lord wants you

to do it, because that's why we're doing it. The Lord wants you

to do it now that it's time to do it. So I'm just going

to turn it over to you. Okay. I'm not going to try to

interrupt you unless there's a point that you need to clarify. All okay,

okay, all right. I have it on my phone here, and I

will try to not be boring. So my testimony, March twenty twenty four.

I'm the fourth and youngest child of two parents who were first generation Christians

and their families. They each prayed to receive Christ in the Evangelical tradition in

their late thirties. Before my birth, we moved a lot because of my

dad's government career, but we always had a home church, Sunday school youth

group in camp where I learned Bible stories and about morality. At twelve,

I was confirmed by the Evangelical Free Church. I was social and happy to

attend it all, and I always loved congregational singing. I attended public schools

wherever we lived, and was always known as a good girl and a Christian.

I attended Christian college at Taylor University, where I met my first husband,

and we married right after graduation. At this point, everything starts to

fall apart. Rather, at this point, I begin to just destroy everything

within a few years. Inside, I am frustrated and disappointed. I have

no skills for working through real problems, and nobody whom I feel I can

admit marital struggles to. I honestly think the initial birth control pills really messed

me up. But that's another subject. Everyone thinks we have it all together.

I want to have children, but have only had a miscarriage seven years

into marriage. I'm exhausted by the performance of being a Christian. In quotes,

my husband is a good man who deserves better than the angry, rebellious

girl he married, and he has no idea what to do for her.

He relocates to California for a new job, and I stay behind to finish

my work, and I go off the deep bend. I loosely admit this

to my husband. So when I arrive in California, I am quickly met

by my husband's chosen pastor, who tells me he is my shepherd and will

contact my parents with the details of my rebellion. I literally lose my mind

and scream at him, you are not my shepherd. I recall that memory

today with open ears and eyes. We separated and I went all the way

off the deep end. Within a few years, my husband asked for a

divorce because he wanted to marry the girl whom the pastor had introduced him to.

I continued to live in the pig sty. I knew God loved me

and required my whole heart in life. I was afraid of God, and

I saw no way to go home. I was about thirty. I felt

it was too late because my childhood. In my childhood, my dad was

a church leader. I had watched and heard things meant for private. In

particular, I heard a letter read at the elder's breakfast in our home written

by my beloved neighbor. Makes me emotional. Sorry friend and former youth group

leader Hurry. She had been tragically widowed and was a young mother. She

had become involved with a man she was not married too, and had become

pregnant Her letter was a confession and she was begging to remain at our church.

They asked her to leave. So ten years later, when I want

to come home, sorry, I am very afraid of church elders, who

I am sure will not receive me back if they know the truth about me.

So I keep adding to my pigstye hold one, sorry about that.

By then, I'm working in pharmaceutical sales. I meet a man from Sweden

who was working in the US as a temporary on a temporary visa. He's

everything I want, though I'm not seeking God at all. I tell my

new boyfriend, who says he's an atheist, that I am a Christian who's

gone far from God. I tell him I know Jesus Christ is my savior,

but I'm in big trouble with God. I'm trying to explain this,

that this is very important to me and always will be. Yet I am

a hypocrite. I tell him. He says, cool, no problem.

I have a very specific memory during this time when God said no, stop

about this relationship. I remember where I was driving in my car. I

responded and I said, I knew this was wrong, but I choose him.

That was full blown rebellion. I soon became pregnant with my daughter,

Anna, who's now twenty six years old, and then we married. I

became a full time mom. He got his green card, relocated to Texas,

where my son Anders was born. In two thousand. The foundation was

wobbling. I was determined to raise our family and stay together. As my

children grew, I was ashamed that I was not teaching them about Jesus and

was not praying for them. Secretly, I wanted to come home to God,

but I didn't know what to do. In two thousand and one,

something began to happen. My husband lost his job and wanted us to go

to church if I would find one. I found one immediately. I knew

God was making a way for me to come home. Do you want to

interrupt me because I want to cry at church? At church, we jump

all the way in. As a family, I struggled with immense shame because

of my past. I was very sorry for my sin. The hymns crushed

me, and I cried easily for my husband. After a few years of

intellectual debating with the men of the church, I witnessed a change something where

my husband broke into a sweat at the Creation Museum in Glenrose, Texas.

I think God removed his blinders that day. He came away from that museum

saying he knew it was true. He knew what he believed was a lie,

and he wondered how in the world he could ever believe such lies.

This was exciting. Within weeks, he prayed to receive Christ with some men

from church, and everyone celebrated. His demeanor was soft. I was excited

for what was happening. The pastor formed a group of twelve men who would

become deacons and elders and invited my husband to be one of those twelve.

This was almost immediately. They met weekly. At the time, it was

exciting, and I was so hopeful that God was making something beautiful out of

our family. Not so fast, soon I learned that my husband lost his

job, had been cultivating a story behind my back that those with those men

that I was not who everyone thought, that I was sick, mentally unstable,

destroying us financially, and he was not sure he could crust me with

our children. I would learn later that he had already filed for divorce and

planned to leave the country. Then he changed course and decided to stay and

seek full custody of the children. He would never get that unless, of

course, I was danger to them. I did not know until about six

months later that there was also another relationship. It was terrifying. I was

defending myself everywhere and very afraid. Child Protective Services investigated. We each had

lawyers. It was so destructive it felt like I was naked. I was

humiliating. It was humiliating to see in the faces of the pastor's elders,

friends, and even family who believed him in part or in full. I

had no job, no husband, a shattered reputation, two hurting children,

and a second divorce. If I even had one bootstrap to pull up,

I might have. But I cried out to God like I never had before.

God was mercifully disappointing me for my rebellion. He was also leading me

and protecting me and changing me. I knew he was absolutely with me.

I had never known this before. Whenever I spoke with a counselor that I

had a true man of God. He knew that I was repentant and committed

to obeying God, but my shame was so heavy. He introduced me to

a couple that began to prepare me for deliverance. I began to read the

scripture. They gave me checklist to help me examine everything with all my heart.

I examined my whole life honestly. I invited God to show me my

sin in detail, and he did. I wept over what I had done

over and over and told him I was sorry. I went through all my

possessions, smashed, burned, and threw away pounds and pounds of art and

music and books and other things that I never should have had. I walked

room by room through my house, confessing any sin that I remembered committing or

permitting. In each room, I anointed the doors of my house with olive

oil. We're asking God if that was okay. I walked the property line

and dedicated all to the Lord. My heart became very sensitive to what would

please God, and I could feel God's pleasure in all of this. There

was peace in our home. Despite the circumstances. My son was free of

night terrors. It was already mind blowing. Hang on one tuck, I

left off another thing. My counselor told me right after my divorce. He

told me that I was about to meet Abbah, my true father, whom

I had never This is the part that's like whoa today, my true father,

whom I had never known before. This meant so much to me,

And now I know that was a prophetic word. It is only this month,

sixteen years later, as I am preparing this testimony, that I understand

what that prophetic word really meant. Now I understand that I was chosen by

God, that I had just become a Christian, been one before. I

had been called by God as a child, but I had not been chosen.

In July two thousand and seven, I was delivered. I learned that

freedom comes by agreeing with God about my sin. I was set free that

day from maternal and paternal family full of freemasonry, crushing shame, lust,

a spirit of rage that had been in my life since I was a little

child. I had never known what it was like to live without that.

I could feel that immediately, I could sing about Jesus, talk about Jesus,

tell people about Jesus, teach people about Jesus. I could read the

Bible and learn. I began to love to study the Bible. For the

first time in my life. I could see other people who were trapped like

I was. God brought people to me who were specifically struggling with sins and

traps I had been in. This was confirmation to me over and over again

that what Satan means for evil, God means for good. I have never

been the same again, and I'm so thankful for Jesus. Well, that's

that's a pretty that's a pretty common story. It's a pretty common story that

most people don't understand that usually these events involve a divorce and a family shattering,

and they have to. I don't know why, but it does.

Scores and scores and scores and scores of people that I have been friends with

over the years have relayed almost verbatim the same things you said. So I

thought it was special, and all of them did too. You thought you

were I mean, I'm sorry I have to put this in very negative connotation,

but for all intents and purposes, you thought you were the master race.

You thought you were born into Christ, you were born into royalty,

and you really thought that's the way it was. And that's not the case

at all. So let's clarify a couple of things. The very first thing

that you said, as a data point in your religious life was the Evangelical

Free Church, correct, Yes, I'm very familiar with that. Rachel and

I of course went to the e Free Church in Headinger, North Dakota for

quite some time until the pastor there, Gary Wems died, So I'm very

familiar with that. And you mentioned that you went to a school called Taylor

University. Can you describe where that's at Upland, Indiana, Middle Indiana or

North Central? And I take it that that as a religious institution. Yes,

I guess it has a Methodist background, Yes, it does. I

am familiar with it, very familiar with it. Rachel and I of course

met at Indiana Wesleyan University, which is literally right down the road from Taylor

University. So you had it all, didn't you. You had all your

ducks in a row, didn't you. Yes, And you were I mean

your life was it had been planned by God to perfection, right, I

mean you were literally born into the Master race. And that's not what it

turned out to be. The farther you went down this road, the more

you realized how drastically separated from God you were, so like no power,

no whatever. This was to be a Christian There was no freedom, no

power, no Like I told you privately, if they would ask me to

teach two year olds in church, I couldn't do it. I'd be so

nervous. If they would say, you know, could you share your testimony,

which now I know I didn't really have them, but I thought I

couldn't speak. It was just dead. It has been likened to me many

times like this. You were literally Jonah in the boat. You were literally

Jonah. You were in that same exact circumstance, and all these people around

you, they were all Christians, and you were in the wrong boat and

you couldn't get out of the boat. You were stuck with all these people,

and you were Jonah. You were stuck on this boat. And you

described this as a cage. You describe it as, you know, much

like you were a canary in the cage. You were crying out. You

were crying out, and this entire system of elders, and of course this

ex husband was immediately taken into the eldership. So you had no idea that

that in itself was a cage. So, boy, my heart goes out

to you listening to the story, because I know exactly where you were at

The circumstances are different, but the situation was the same in many ways.

You have preacher kids syndrome. You were for all intents and purposes, you

were a Christian because that's where you had been raised. And it's funny that

it sounds like for quite some time you realized something was wrong here. Yeah,

I mean probably about five minutes after getting married my first time. I

mean it was which is terrible to admit, but yeah, how long were

you married that first time? Seven years? That produced no children, one

miscarriage, one miscarriage. So were you trying to have children during that time?

Almost the whole time? Because I was. I took the pill in

the beginning, which I shouldn't have not done, and maybe for the first

seven eight months, and then I was like, I don't feel good on

this. I feel like it made me crazy. So I went off the

pill and could have gotten pregnant all the rest of that time and never did.

Kept trying and trying and say more about that, but it would involve

his life, and I think they thought I had a problem, but it

turned out I think he did well. It turns out nobody had a problem.

God didn't give his children. Yeah, because you definitely did have two

children later, So you did have children, yes, but you had children

when God said so, and you had children with whom God said so,

correct and so. So I don't want anybody to get the miss you know,

misinterpret what you're saying. It was a good thing you didn't have kids,

even though you went off the birth control years. Literally, you're trying

years and you didn't. That's not from a birth control. That's not his

fault, that's not your fault. God alone can grant life no matter what

you do, So you know, it's it's amazing that that once you come

past these circumstances, you can see that and it was a very good thing

you didn't have children with that first husband, right, Yes, I don't

know. I mean I wonder, well, I trust God gave me the

children that he wanted me to have, period, that's right. And in

trusting that God gave you the children that he wanted you to have. So

it was a good thing that I didn't. You do know, yes,

yes, you do know. You do know that. No, God did

not want us to have children, So you do know. It's just you

beat around the bush and try to explain it. But it was all in

God's hands. Amen. So you were literally the perfect Christian girl. And

let me ask you this. So when you were raised, were you raised

in a house with means or without meat? With means? Okay, so

you didn't have any financial worries ever, No, my father groups super poor,

really poor, so it wouldn't have mattered how much he money he had.

We lived modestly and carefully. He wouldn't have spoiled us because of how

he grew up. So we didn't grow up spoiled, but we were very

I never needed anything. I didn't have cars and fancy anything, but I

had everything I needed. Yes, So how do you think this impacted things?

I don't know? Help me, well, how about your first husband?

Was he with means or without needs? She, in our marriage became

with means. He was an engineer and did very well. No, he

was a student when I met him. He's like poor students. But and

I went to work while he finished school, and then he was an engineer.

So the lord missed a lot of opportunities that poverty would have been used

to test you and refined you. Correct. Oh, yes, so you

avoided all of those types of testing, right, Yeah, comfortable, you

would have to agree that God had to find other means to test you and

refine you. I see that, Yes, I see it too. So

at some point in time you said that that two thousand and seven comes around

and you go to receive prayer. Okay, so fill in the blanks with

that. So you are going to this church, correct, and you're a

member of this church and you just don't feel things are right? Why did

you reach out to this to this other individual the first counselor that sent me

to them, or the first counselor was counseled me and then counseled my husband

and I together, and then after my divorce was over, he just talked

to me a few more times after that and then it was it ended with

him. But he's the one who said, you know, now you've done

everything you can to stay married, and now I believe you are going to

meet Abba. Isn't that cool? I just remember that. I just remember

that today. It's the coolest thing. And I take it that it come

true. Yea yeah. But again that in the context of just the last

couple of weeks, it's like, whoa, yeah, I thought I already

knew him. Well. I mean, I mean, I thought, he

said, you know God, you know the Lord all this, but you

don't know Abbah, you don't know a father that loves you. And I

always it meant a lot to me when he said that, And I mean

I did come to see the love of the Lord and his care and his

protection and everything, but I never understood it the way I do right now.

So the last two weeks has been a whirlwind for you. Yeah,

but why don't you describe that? In our group, we meet and talk

once in a while with you, and the subject was coming up about supernatural

things, and some of the girls were talking a lot about how there's so

much talk about demons and about miracles and about just you know, healings,

and so I'm listening to everyone talk about these different supernatural things that are starting

to happen and all that, and I just said to you, because there

was talk about demons and deliverance. And I said, Matthew, in all

the years that I've been a part of this group, I've never I've always

been afraid to run by. This really my testimony or what happened to me

with I think you loosely know that I went through deliverance, but we don't

ever get into it because I've never been short. I never wanted to hear

somebody say that didn't happen to you or like that. Theologically I was off

on something like that because it was so life changing in that period of my

life, and deliverance was so life changing to me that I'd like, I

knew it was true, but I you know, I'd come out of a

church that was did not support that or think that it was necessary or anything.

And your response to all of this, because then everybody started to sort

of debate in our little group about and I've always known there's all this little

problem about you know, does the Holy Spirit dwell where demons are? And

no? And I knew that, so I have all these years just thought,

well, they whether they're in me, on me or around me,

that's call it what you want people, But I'm free, That's how I

would say it. You know who cares where they are? I'm free,

and I forget you want to help me here, But you just responded like

what happened when I was delivered was that I was chosen. And I'm like,

oh, what called versus chosen. Many are called, few are chosen.

So you were chosen, which actually I think it was before and then

deliverance followed. But uh, you mean I wasn't a Christian all along.

And that's why this whole period of life is so profound to me and so

life changing. And you were talking about the miracles and the different things that

God does for people. The healings are to change them, and so if

whenever that change occurs, that's when you were called are chosen? Sorry,

And like what you mean. When I was a little girl and I asked

praying to Jesus come into my heart and be my savior and all that,

it wasn't then. So that's what happened. Two weeks ago I found out

that I got saved a whole lot forty years after I thought I did,

you know? And it's amazing that that boy that used to the word or

to be delivered, boy that has two monumental different connotations, doesn't it,

Because most of us, when we speak that way, especially when you come

from the charismatic community, you get delivered from demons, right. The demons

are cast out of you. Right. But the Lord Jesus Christ is very

clear, you must be born again. And in order to be born again,

your spirit must be delivered, you must undergo a new birth, you

must be delivered from your carnal nature. You must be born again. And

this is a very simple thing. It's not difficult at all to see,

is it. But the main problem is how many times did you hear John

Chapter three preached in its entirety from the pulpit. Yeah, you talked about

that the other day. No, you'd never heard that in its context as

Jesus related. Is exactly how it's supposed to be relayed. It was a

message there, and that's very exciting and it's very life changing. And normally

when this happens to a Christian, someone that has been called their whole life,

they've been called, and they're knee deep in misery. They're literally knee

deep in their misery. And then one day an event like you describe happens

and they get delivered, they are born again. All this time they had

been called to Christ and had been waiting to be born in the spirit.

They'd been waiting for rebirth. And just in your testimony, many of the

people that was acting as your clergy, it is obvious they had not been

born again. Would you agree with that? Are they gonna hear me?

That's really like? Wow? Yeah no, and that's disturbing. Did you

hear I mean, I'd reminded me today how I screamed you are not my

shepherd. And I mean this was coming out of hatred, rebellion, everything,

but I screamed, you are not my shepherd. I'll never forget that.

And that was true. That was true. And unfortunately you really were

crying out because you really did want a shepherd because this whole game you've been

playing your whole life, it was not working. It did not work.

Something was not right. A man in by you saying that you were in

rebellion. There's no need for you to give details. It's the same old

same os. It's the same old same Oh. The lies, the deception,

the cheating, the subterfuge, it's all the same. It's all the

same. And you knew you were knee deep in this quagmire and you need

to be delivered from it. But how can you be delivered from something when

you're a Christian? You've been called you yourself said that you were praying when

you were a little girl. You've been called from the beginning, just like

me. There's no difference between you and I. I certainly was called from

my very big I mean, I was literally christened on my eighth day per

the Old Testament law, when we had a special ceremony at church, and

on my eighth day is when I got you know, christened or baptized,

however you want to say it. Many denominations say a different way. On

my eighth day, I was good, right, Jony, I was good

right. No. No, As a matter of fact, I was in

a terrible predicament until I was delivered, until I was born again. So

this is key critical. Tell me about two thousand and seven. So did

this happen in the place where you lived? No, I went to Colorado.

Okay, tell me those those sets of circumstances. How did you get

into contact with somebody in Colorado. Well, the counselor that was counseling my

husband and I, he lived near them, and he was in Colorado.

So the counseling was phone counseling all those years. And then one time we

went for a couples for a three day intensive with him live and yeah,

and I was so hopeful that we were gonna, you know, to stay

together and work it out and everything. But so that's how I got there.

And so then when I when I went, I took my children to

my brother in Albuquerque and drove up to Colorado. And so in two thousand

and seven, what particularly happened. Did you have people pray with you?

Did you have people pray over you? What happened? Well, they had

sent me this packet to prepare, and it was scripture all over, you

know, about what Jesus paid for and showing me in the word that this

was my the children's bread, you know, this was my given to me.

And and then like I said in my testimony, there were sheets to

work through that would outline possessions that you might have that you need to get

rid of, you know, any of these things. And then one really

interesting thing was a whole list of all kinds of spiritual practices other stuff that

people would get into. And I read through the list, and you know,

I had been really taught since I was a child, like we board

at a party, leave call us, We'll come get you leave. So

I mean, like I had been little girl all my life, don't touch

any of that stuff. But when I read through the list. I knew

about every single false religion because I had always read about them like details.

I was fascinated with all of that, and so I wrote on the side

of my paper, is it notable in any way that even though I didn't

do these things, I was curious about every single one of them. I

mean me about Jehovah's witnesses, Mormon whatever, you know all of them.

And anyway, he said, he said, we call that booty. Satan

can't make you do it. He can make you fascinated by it. But

God will use that for his for his kingdom. Anyway, It's just kind

of fun. But it was a packet to prepare me. And the first

thing I did was freak out because it looked like I was supposed to be

a deliverance minister. And I called and said, you sent me their own

packet, because this looks like you're preparing me to do this for other people,

and I just want to get clean. I don't want to run packet.

And she said, well, when you receive this, then you will

understand how to help other people. You got the right packet, So anyway,

I just worked through it for a couple months. On my own and

by the way, intense war to keep me from that. I would fall

asleep while I was looking at it. It was really interesting, because really

interesting. But that's the part where I described where I was cleaning my house

and throwing away things, and God was just like I could feel his pleasure.

I knew he was showing me that book out that, you know what

I mean, And it was just I could feel the difference in our home.

It was really something. So going with them then it was just the

first day. It was two days with them. The first day was just

preparation, prayer together, getting to know them, going through my thing.

It doesn't have to be this formal, but I just learned a lot.

And then I went back the next day for deliverance, and I was shocked

to be sitting in their blue velvet chairs because I thought they were going to

have me in the shed with black pain on the walls, because I was

going to throw up or something. And it wasn't anything like that. It

was just completely like a Christian coming into agreement with what God has said.

And they just prayed that the Lord would show you know, you know,

they would pray that the Lord would show me things while they worked through their

list of stuff, and then I would tell them when I my impressions that

I had and the things that I was that were coming to my mind,

and answer questions while we went, and in the end just commanded unclean spirits

to go, wicked spirits to go to release me. Let me go.

Taught me really basically just how to pray and how to clean house. And

this was your event. Yeah, I thought so, But I think even

like a few weeks even before that, you know, the Lord was during

the house cleaning and stuff like that. I think he chose me. You

know when Kent said you were going to meet Abba and I just was without

like the part where I said if I had had bootstraps, I would have

pulled him up. I just when and this was all going down. I

mean, everything I thought was going to happen in my life, and our

plans for the future and everything were it was dead. And I had no

idea where to go. The mortgage was in his name, you know,

everything. Where am I going to go? What am I going to do?

I've got two children. It was so terrible and I really cried out

to God then, and I think that is when everything changed when I really

had nothing else left, and he met me there and said this way,

So when when was the second divorce official? January tenth, two thousand and

seven? And yeah, and when did you go out to Colorado? July

and July? Yes, so two thousand and seven, you've you have done,

and now you're an experiential Christian. That's the only way to put it.

And take that. You're an experiential Christian. Now, so do you

how does this affect your church life? Well? I have struggled with that

because I've wondered if I'm disobedient about that. Because I stayed at that church

that I was at for a while and I could tell, I don't know,

it's just humiliating. I could tell I was whatever. So eventually I

left there and I removed my By this time, I was understanding about like

obeying God and following God. So I removed my membership. I went formally

like no more there, and then I went to a couple other churches.

Tried a couple other churches, and I landed at a great, big local

church, huge local church because they had a lot for children, a lot

going on. But it wasn't right for us. Either. Really, I

met some very special people that I'm close to to this day in the Sunday

school rooms, but in the whole thing. You know, since I've said

where, what city I live in and stuff, I don't want to go

too far because it involves a lot of people in this town. But yeah,

it was about candy for the children. And again that's the same cage,

the same story about you know, repeat after me and you're saved.

Right. So at this point, how old are your children? Ten and

ten and seven? So you do continue to go to church for their sake

for until they get how old? Not very much longer, because I felt

like they were being taught lies. And so when I realized, I don't

believe this anymore, I don't believe any of this. Actually, my last

Sunday, there was a very special service. They said they were going to

broadcast, and there was a lot of hype about it's going to be next

Sunday and we're going to broadcast or whatever. And when I went in,

they sang for a very very long time and it was kind of darkened in

there in my ears. Cut all of a sudden, it was like we

have been singing for ten minutes or fifteen, I don't know, And I

have not heard the name of Jesus once. And it was like I just

kept feeling like there are people willing to die today in China to gather together.

Do you think they're going to sing and not speak of Jesus. It's

like there's something wrong or something wrong. And I just tap my sister on

the arm and I said, I'm sorry, I have to get out of

here. And I've never been I and I ever went back. Has your

sister been back for maybe for a little while, Yeah, maybe for a

little while, not now. But so from there you eventually found this ministry.

Yes, actually I think I'd already found you. So that's part of

why I was like, uh huh, yeah, No, I already had

found you by this time. And so there was a lot of it privately,

like I'm looking all over for shepherds and teachers all over and for something

new after you know, my deliverance and all that. I definitely was looking

for something new, but I still like I got to find something here locally,

and I still, you know, I think looking back now, my

children are twenty six and twenty three, and it definitely would have been better

if I had us more involved in some church. I think that was a

mistake that was wrong. Well you keep saying that to try harder to find

someplace. Well, let's clarify, Jony. So you wanted them to go

through that same circumstance you went through when you were little, Well, maybe

there's a better one somewhere. Well, Joni, what I'm trying to say

is is that you keep saying that maybe that was wrong, Jony. God

has always been in control, and after you were born again, okay,

life was no longer your life. It was his. So everything that happened

after that was his doing, because it is better for a child, especially

when they're right through there, right in adolescents, it's better for them to

not be taught than to be indoctrinated. So I'm going to say this now,

you need to wake up to the simple fact that no, you did

the right thing. God had you exactly on the course you needed to be.

Because your two children, they have their own sets of circumstances and God's

going to do to them what He's going to do with them. So I

know that's a hard thing to hear, you know, but you can Trae

do not forsake the gathering of yourself, you know that place. And of

course you're not right, I'm not, But did I you know, we

had Christian friends or whatever, but yeah, they didn't maybe have enough,

I thought, but I received what you're saying, right, it might have

been just more of the same. It would have here that almost everything I

see around me is that same thing. So what have you encountered well with

not only with this ministry but with me personally. Well that's a loaded question.

That's a loaded question. So can you come to me about anything you

you say? So, I don't because I got my own you know,

I think I don't want to bother him all that. But you make us

very welcome. You have my private phone number, yes, and we have

talked on my private phone number. Yes. So why is it that you

have stuck around with this ministry? It's a live there's life, there's truth

and life, and you have not cultivated a Oh. I asked you about

this on the phone the other last night. Was it when we were all

talking? I said to sometimes you'll just like shut down and that's it and

we're like, where did Matthew go? And I said, is that because

we are in trying to make you our shepherd. I think that's how I

asked it, or whatever we're trying to what was it shepherd? Was that

the word I used? Yeah? Do you? Is that why you get

quiet sometimes and go a ways because we're trying to like because it's there's a

bunch of ladies, and I think we are like bent on looking for heads

instead of there being one head, Christ Jesus, you know. And we

do this sometimes and are looking for some pastor or teacher to show us the

way. And what you have done over and over and over again is demonstrate

for us how to study the Bible. And I can see, and I've

experienced personally that when you speak and you talk, I don't really understand anything

unless I have studied it for myself. I take notes. I'm really good

at writing down almost everything you say, and it often doesn't make sense until

later to me. I have to study it in the Bible and see it

for myself, and you have. I mean, it's crazy with the computer

today and the Bible apps where you can look at the Hebrew and Greek and

some of the Bibles that I have, it's amazing. What a non you

know, I have average intelligence and I'm not a rabbi. But what we

can dig into and see and it's really exciting and words my word by word,

and it's addicting. Yeah, I'm going to use another word for it,

and a lot of people won't understand why I use this word, but

it is fulfilling and sometimes sorry, and it's fulfilling in ways that you don't

understand. It's weird how you'll be studying something on your own or whatever,

and then all of a sudden you hear it here and here and here and

here, and that's where it's That's just miraculous. I mean, that's just

how the Lord works. He's got us together. I don't even know how

it happens, but where you know, he's making something, teaching you something

over here, and then you're hearing about it everywhere. You know. It's

it's just exciting. You get you get remembrancers everywhere where you're at. When

you and I obviously are not in the same zip code, yestly on opposite

sides of the country. Correct, Yes, you're as far south as you

can go and I'm as far north as you can go. And yet we

get together. We'll do some studying and you will have those topics come and

it's amazing. You will see it and hear it everywhere. And it's like,

what with somebody listening to our private conversation And you've heard me say that

before, Yeah, I mean somebody listening to us, because that's exactly what's

going on. And another example is the girls have Jenny initiated a thing where

we would read, start reading, start reading, and was it October or

some where we're going to read the We're going to read through the Bible and

finish it by the end of the year. Well it didn't go quite that

fast, but most of the girls are way ahead of me. I got

slowed down in the holiday time or whatever, and I'm way behind them.

So I did you know they write things? I read everything they write in

our little group chat and they're very excited by what they're learning and stuff,

and so I follow along and I read that all the time. But I

was thinking, oh, when they want to go live and talk to each

other, I shouldn't because you know, I'm not where they are. And

Darlene, I think, said come on, come on, join in or

whatever. It was so weird because exactly where they were was exactly are We

were in two different parts of the Bible, but they totally it was like,

you're not behind us. It was just so cool. I don't know

if I'm explaining that well, but it was just the same story going on

and where they were I was. And that's that should make sense because the

Word of God is cyclical, so you should expect that. Yeah, it

doesn't matter where you're at which chapter and verse. If someone else is in

the same chapter and verse, it is highly probable that God is dealing with

them the same way and they're seeing the same things, because that's what God

does to his body. And when you have come together in a group of

believers. I don't understand why people don't realize that God will still do this

even though you're on one side of the country. I'm on the other side

of the country. He still does it, doesn't he. Yeah, And

that is absolutely amazing how He can do that. I was in like Deuteronomy

though, and they were in you know, chronicles or something, and it

was like, oh, it's kind of the same stuff, you know.

It was just weird. It was so cool. Well, you can only

know the end from the beginning. So I have really enjoyed listening to you.

It is really exciting that I did something. It was the right time,

wasn't it. And you learned that here at Marianatha Ministries that everything is

only done in a beautiful time. Yep. And this event two weeks ago,

would you say that was perfect timing? Was that just when you needed

it? Ah? Yes, because God did it, then that's when I

needed it. But wow, this is kind of I'm still blown on.

I'm still thinking about it. Like I said, even today as he was

calling things back to my mind, it was like see see you know,

oh wow, yeah, that was when I chose you. Pretty cool?

Yes, it is, it is very cool. It is the coolest thing.

Wouldn't you say, yeah, it's only thing that matters. Yes,

it is. It's the only thing that matters. You know, what would

what advice would you give to someone who is in that place where you found

yourself cry on to God with all your heart? You know the part where

I said if I'd have had a bootstrap to pull up, I would have.

And it wasn't because I didn't know that God was God. And that

do you know what I mean? That he wanted all of me. I

knew all that with my head, but I still I thank him that it

was that bad. I needed that big of a spanking, and I needed

it to be impossible to see a way out or figure out anything, for

me to really sincerely be at the end of myself. And so when I

pray for people, you know, people say pray for so and so.

You know that that you know everything would go well. I don't even pray

like that because I personally know, like Flord, if that person does not

belong to you, you have not chosen that person. Now that's the language

I would use. Now, if you've not chosen that person, please do

whatever you have to do while there's time, you know, humble them.

And boy, that is a hard thing to share publicly. I began to

talk like that in the days I'm describing in my I'm remembering this right now

in my Sunday school class. I was so, I mean, I knew

whatever. Now I'm doing my little circles here, but people do not welcome

that information. I said. I was praying for my children that God would

do whatever he needed to do, that he would spare their lives, but

do whatever he needed to do, so that they would come to him early

in life. That's what that was my prayer, Please God, do whatever

you need to do. And I was really like that ticked some of my

friends and they said, what kind of mother would pray a prayer like that?

Really, I've been told that, and I'm like one who knows.

That's who pray a pray like one who knows how far and how dark it

can get. It's like, you don't want that. And we would agree

at that time what you deserved. And I, for one am thankful that

he spared you for another day me too. Instead of damnation, he chose

for you to be born again. Amen. And that's what your children need.

That's what my children needs, with the children down the street need,

that's what everybody that we work with, that's what they need. That's what

everybody needs. Everybody needs to be born again. And no one is telling

them. They're all being told if you do this. I told them that,

and you do this, then you are a Christian, then you're a

Christian. And that is not They don't know what I've learned in the last

couple of weeks. They don't know that yet that I taught them wrong.

That is a painful thing, isn't it. But again, God will choose

whom he chooses, and so I'm just asking him, please please choose them.

Please discipline them, you know, because He disciplines those he loves.

Please fother them and discipline them. Amen. Well, why don't you take

us out of here in prayer? Joni? Okay, God, I just

thank you so much for who you are and for what you do or oh

you just change everything. Thank you for the details, Lord, and thank

you for Jesus. Just pray Lord that if there would be someone that would

hear these words, that they would cry out to you Lord, that you

would take them to the end of themselves, Lord, and that many might

come to know you. And I just pray that you would choose my children,

and that you would choose many who listen to these words in Jesus's name.

Amen, Amen and Amen. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen,

God bless God speed. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Marinath the

Ministries with Matthew Miller. I appreciate you tuning in For more information. Stop

by and visit us at patreon dot com, backslash Matthew Miller, or you

can correspond to us via snail mail by writing to PO Box zero two four

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God fearing, Bible believing, Gospel preaching Christian, please repeat after me.

I pledge the regions to the Bible, God's holy Word. I will make

it a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. It's you

words while I hide in my heart that I might not sin against God.