S2E44 Is CHRISTmas December 25th with Chris L Lesley

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we are Maranatha Ministries and now Reduction Draweth Nigh. Welcome,

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the program. It's good to

be with Chris L. Leslie again. We had him on

quite a while ago for his book Ohio eighty eight

Counties of Giants, the Ancestors that Preceded Us, And it's

been a while since I talked to him, and I

was watching this holiday season for any ministries or anything

that was going to come out and try to go

against the grain with it. Just seems like modern Christianity

has somehow come up with the with the idea that

Christmas is a pagan holiday and that is absolutely a

bald faced live that's a baltplace lit. So Chris was

the only one I've seen posting on, so I shared

a couple of his posts, I invited him on, and wow,

a whole.

Lot has happened since since we've had.

Him on last. So Chris, welcome back to the program.

And why don't you bring us up to speed about

what has gone on since you wrote your last book.

Okay, my last book is Ohio eighty eight Counties of Giants,

and I'm putting a museum in Butler, Indiana, and i've

I've bought the building and of bought display cases for

that purpose to show examples of giants that have some

Christian a Christian based museum right here in Indiana. And

I chose this location because it's between Ohio. I'm four

miles from Ohio from the border, and I'm in Indiana

where I'm working on the book. And I had finished it,

but before I went to publish, I saw that this

Christmas thing was was a problem and it needed to

be addressed immediately, and so I jumped onto that and

I put the same fervor I.

Do with.

My giant book, Ohio eighty eight Counties of Giants, doing

you know, full research, in depth research, you know, looking

under every stone and then some. And I just apply

that same discipline to the subject of Christmas. And I

didn't expect a lot, and I did. I knew that

there was there was something before Constantine, which is which

is usually the lying narrative that Christmas started at Constantine.

And so I found a few like Hippolytis and uh

and Theophilus, and then I could have went with just that,

and that would have been enough to disprove and debunk

a lot of these lies that are even being said

in the pulpit in churches. I would say, I would

say it's close to ninety eight percent of churches are

now moved towards this idea that December twenty fifth is

not the correct date, and they are teaching this in error.

This is something that is pushed by the you know,

deconstruction as the disbelief, and in this case, a lot

of Christians are just useful idiots. They are running with

this information and a lot of it isn't isn't checked

at all, so and it's just being told behind the pulpit.

One of the lies, of course is Constantine, that all

this started at Constantine. But there's numerous instances when people

mentioned the December twenty fifth date as being the birth

of Christ going back. One of them is the Floishing

calendar calendar, which came right before Constantine. Julius the first

also came before, right before around three three twenty, and

it goes all the way back to Eusebius in sixty

six AD, which is about thirty years out from Jesus's crucifixion.

So there's instances of Christmas being mentioned before some of

the Gospels were finished, which is which is a big deal.

They had been finished all the Gospels and they're already

talking about celebrating the birth of Christ. So I wanted

to put this book together. After a little while of

finding a few, I took and just waited because I

knew that there was more more to come. And then

an avalanche of research just kind of fell in my lap.

And that's kind of what I do. I don't You

can never get it all at once. Sometimes you just

have to wait and and then as you're casually looking,

doors open and then you get the floodgates pour in.

And so I think I had I have probably seventy

to one hundred accounts of instances when people mentioned the

December twenty fifth date, going all the going all the

way back. I since since I had the time, I

decided to write down some of those, and and I

could read some of those for you.

Why don't you give us a couple, I mean, at

least give us a few from before three hundred AD.

Okay, Uh, okay, I'm gonna start right here at three

twenty five AD. That that's before Constantine. That's before a

lot of these pagan deities and stuff like that were

or or even mentioned or or documented. Three twenty five.

Now this is a different usebus. This is Eusebius of Ceceyria.

He said, for it is not unknown to all that

Christ was born in the month of December, and that

on this day the Church has always celebrated a holy feast.

Now now it's saying that that day has always been

a celebration. So it was marked from the beginning of

time that this was going to be a special day,

and we should keep this day, you know, and and

and continue to keep it, not abandoned it because some

atheists decided to try to break up Christianity. Theophilus in

uh he says, we ought to celebrate the birthday of

our Lord on whatsoever the twenty fifth of December shall happen.

So what that's saying is that it doesn't matter the calendar,

It doesn't matter where it's as Julian the Gregorian or

the Jewish calendar, whatever date falls on December or whatever,

December twenty fifth falls on whatever calendar, that's when we

should celebrate the birth of Christ. Because there's something called

calendar drift, and the idea is that, you know, we

have three hundred and sixty days at the beginning of creation.

Now we have three hundred and sixty four point five,

I believe, and the day's a lot of calendars that

they'll just add a month at the end. Some of

the calendar, the Egyptian calendar, some of the Jewish calendar

just add five days at the end, and so it's

things are never the same exact day. So we're not

the day is not important, it's the date. So December

twenty fifth is the chosen date, and that's the date

we are still expected to celebrate Christmas. Yes, I'll read

some more. Clement of Alexandria said, the birth of our

Lord is celebrated on the twenty fifth of the month

of December, which is the proper time. So okay, okay,

what time frame was this written? Clement of Alexander is

two hundred a d Okay, it's more than a hundred

years before Constantine.

Right, you're talking a number of years before Constantine. So

this is really just nipping this in the bud.

Give me one more before Constantine. Okay, let me see.

I'll go to Erroneous of Lions. It's in one AD,

so this is this is second century. He says, the

Son of God, who became incarnate to redeem mankind, was

born on the twenty fifth of December. For this day

was marked by the heavens with a great light. So

you know, there was a a light that shined down

which allowed the wise men to show up. So they

they knew all the way to China what day this

light appeared in and above Bethlehem, they knew the exact

date that this happened, and it had never happened before,

and so it was a light to the whole world

that there is something happening. And so they're not going

to forget this date. This is an important date and

it's been marked ever since. It's been celebrated, and yeah,

they were expecting it. Well.

The first counter argument you encounter with these people is

they say that no Christmas was just a whitewashing of

other pagan deities being born, and that all kinds of

deities were born on Deceber twenty fifth.

Is that true? Not one did? He is born on

December twenty fifth, not one of them. And a lot

of this, a lot of this really started in nineteen

ninety seven when a German propaganda film named Zeitgeist was

made and it was it was a series, but they

taught One of the main things that they mentioned was Horace.

And then a brilliant website came out and it was

called Horace Manure, and it just completely debunked the idea

of Horace being born on December twenty fifth. But what

has happened is they've tried every deity and they just

keep saying it, and through them keeps them keep saying

that Tamus that dian isis that isis that all these

different deities one after there. They only want to have it.

Got his Gozer from the ghost Busters, I think. But

they they say all these and eventually they it just

wears you down and you begin to believe it. So

I'll go through some of those deities as well and

talk to you about when their their birthdays actually were. Okay,

see if five, Okay, Horace, this started with a guy

named Gerald Massey and there's no evidence for Horace whatsoever.

And this is this is where Zeitgeist got got. This

is from from someone named Gerald Massey. I think it

was in the middle eighteen hundreds. Mithra was born from

a rock. There's no date at all, quits the Lakota

and nobody in the Middle East knew, but they still

say that it was born on December twenty fifth. As

far as studies go, April sixth is the supposed date Tamous.

There's no arrative at all, no date. Kristna in India

is August the thirtieth, not December twenty fifth. Mithra December

sixteenth when it is mentioned. That's kind of a later

date that they attached to it, though the original documents

don't have any date at all. Buddha depends on what

documentation you look at May, June and April, never December

twenty fifth. Hercules no document at Tess of Faigia between

June and September. Nimrod somewhere between November first and fifteenth.

Soul invictis now Soul in Victis. There's some confusion here

because the birthday, because he's a sun god, his birthday

is supposed to be the solstice. The winter is the

idea that the shortest day of the year and it

is now born and then grows to the you know,

and gets bigger until throughout the year. But the it's

celebrated from the twentieth to the twenty third, not not

the twenty fifth, And people get this wrong all the time.

The twenty twenty third third is the twentieth to the

twenty third is the day of the solstice, while some

of these deities they fall on the twenty third. But

where that gets confusing is that there is a calendar.

It's a Jewish calendar, and it's called a solace in Victi,

and they take that which which means the invincible Sun,

but they take that as being the sun god, which

is soul in Victus, which means the unconquerable Son. So

there's some difference and there's some wordplays, but the fact

that Jesus has mentioned and it gives the date December

twenty fifth, and all the saints' birthdays are in there

as well a list of saints' birthdays. It's kind of

like having a newspaper like the Tampa Son and then

them mentioning the birth of Christ in it. So it

doesn't have anything to do with the Son. It's just,

I guess, just a bad name that the Catholics came

up with Saturn is one of the big ones. Everybody says, oh,

well Saturn, and this has preached straight from the pulpit.

I hear it from almost every pastor. And this is

just a flat out lie. They say that this has

everything to do with Saturnalia, and they point to an

image of saturnalit which has a Christmas tree, and they

say that he was born on December twenty fifth. And

they never check it. They never never do good research.

They just go with whatever Google algorithms, Facebook algorithm or Wikipedia,

and then that's the theology. It's Wikipedia theology. And so

they just take this and run with it. But Saturnawya

is celebrated between December seventeenth to the twenty third, which

is the end of the solstice. Most of these deities

are said to be December twenty fifth because people think

December twenty fifth is when the solstice is. So they said, okay,

all these sun deities, just like Jesus, they're on the

solstice too. No, two days later there's the solstice. And

you know, this is something that I just thought about,

is that they try to connect all these sun deities

to Jesus. And what does God do. He has. He

has Jesus born at midnight, in the darkest hour on

December twenty fourth, at midnight, at the start of that day.

So it's complete, like, has absolutely nothing to do with

the Sun. It's the opposite of the middle of the day.

It's at midnight. It's at night. In fact, there's an

alternative light source, this star above them. It's an alternative

has nothing to do with the Sun at all. So

it's almost like a mockery of their sun God to

be outside of the solstice, to be in pitch black,

and to have another alternative light.

Now that's the first time I ever looked at it

that way. But you're exactly right. That's kind of a

slap in the face to anybody making the suggestion that

Jesus is a son deity.

No he's not.

He's absolutely the opposite of that. But it makes you wonder, Okay,

then why the twenty fifth? If God's doing something mechanically

in the Bible, why would he want the twenty fifth?

You got any thoughts on that? Yeah, And it has

to do with Matthew's party, And I believe Matthew's party

has everything to do with celebrating Jesus' birthday. There are

I believe that the tax collectors they had a one

week furlough right at the end of the year in

which they what they did is they would they would

celebrate for one week before they start the next tax season.

Anybody who was before that week they would go and

finish their taxes. Whatever happened during that week, it would

carry on into the year because they were less busy

because they've had an entire year to do taxes. So

what's amazing about this is that at the end of

the year, at you know, the thirty first, at midnight,

you can ask you know, AI or chat GDP or anything,

you know, go back twenty four hours for seven days.

Where does that put me? It puts you December twenty

fourth at midnight. There is exactly seven days, just like

Creation at the end of the year. And so what

I think happened here is that that Matthew had a

celebration and they were the last to do taxes. That's

why the Pharisees we're on to Jesus because he's the

last one. There's no one that can come after him

because he's the last customer. Okay, it's down to the second,

it's down to the very second that no one can

come after him. He's the last customer, the fair, the

last taxpayer, the last taxpayer for the year. And it

just works out that way that he's So what you're

saying is this is why the Pharisees were saying he

was he was partying with the tax collector, tax collectors

and sinners because everybody else has done, they're gone. He's

there while they're partying. They're there into their their their

last days. They're getting ready to cut loose.

Okay, So what you're saying is is that from the

twenty fifth into the first of the year was a

furlough for all the tax collectors was done until the

beginning of the of the year.

Yes, that's exactly it. And if you read Matthew, what

does he do? He talks about the virgin birth more

than anyone. He talks about the virgin birth. He also

talks about gifts. In fact, his name means gift. His

name means gift of God, gift of God. So there

are all these little clues that are dropped that this

is a birthday party that is going on. Jesus talks

about age. Now all this should be just completely apparent.

He talks about new wine in old wine skins at

this party. He's there because it is his birthday. They're

doing his taxes. It is his birthday, and it's right

there in scriptures. So if you want to say, well,

you know, nobody in scripture even mentions December twenty fifth.

You know there's nothing that points to the December twenty

fifth day, Yes there is. It points down to the

very second, down to the second, not just the day,

but the moment he was born is the beginning of

that furlough in which and that's the reason why he

was there. And that's what I believe. The other place

where it mentions is the feast of dedication, and that's

in John ten twenty two. See if I wrote that

down somewhere John story where Yeah, John ten twenty two,

that's the feast of dedication, and he is speaking to

the Pharisees. Now, I want, I want you to think

about this picture for a second, because Jesus is at

the temple, and he is he is at what is

what is called Solomon's Colonnade, Solomon's Colonnade. He is at

the temple, and the Pharisees said, if please, if you

are the Messiah, then tell us plainly. And Jesus responds

to them and said, he said that if you were

my sheep, if you were my sheep, then you would

you would know my voice. He says, I have told you. Now.

Now Jesus is saying that he mentions his sheep. The

only sheep that is in that area that is native

to Jerusalem is a sheep that's called Awassie. The Awassie

sheep are the only sheep that are native to that area.

And Jesus says, if you if you were my sheep,

you would know my voice. So here's a reference to

the sheep. Now when did he give that reference, because

it tells you right there that he is the Messiah.

He gave that reference on December twenty fifth, So John

John ten twenty two. When he's speaking to him, it

is it is December twenty fifth, it's Christmas. How do

you know that? Because it says plainly that it was

the feast of Dedication. So Jesus is there at the

temple on his birthday and he says, if you are

my sheep, then you know my voice. So he's saying

that in these three weeks that this sheep drops, which

is the only time period that the Messiah could be born,

is when the sheep drop, and it's not in the spring.

That is the most common lie that's perpetuated. I talk

a little bit more about that, But he said, my

sheep know my voice, and he just gave it to

him right there, and he told him on his birthday.

They if they knew when the sheep dropped, then they

knew it had to be in that three week period.

And yet they were right there on his birthday and

it was just plain in front of their faith. So

December twenty fifth is in scripture it is the mention

of the feast of dedication. The feast of dedication is

the dedication of the temple. He says, my sheep hear

my voice in John ten two seventeen. Now John also

says in two nine that I will destroy, Oh, the

temple will be destroyed in three days, and I will

raise it back up. He's of course talking about himself,

and we know that, but he talks about himself as

being the temple of God, and that he would raise

it in three up in three days. Yet this day

of dedication. It is a dedication to the temple. It

is equally a baby dedication, because both of them began

on this date, December twenty fifth. That's the commonalty. And

I just read to you earlier about saying that they

had been celebrating December twenty fifth from the very beginning

by somebody who lived in you know, the second century.

So those are the connections between the December twenty fifth

date and the Bible. It's right there in scripture. Well,

I've got to say this, Chris, that you know I

don't talk a lot about this, but I have talked

about the wash sheet many times because actually after twenty

nine Versus twenty two, twenty two through twenty seven, okay,

and Leviticus chapter seven, verses three through thirty eight, it

it must be talking about the Washi sheep because it

says the fat of the tail. You can only be

referring to the fat tail to wassie sheep. Yes, and

then that your specific name too.

So when people realize put two and two together, no

we're not. And many people think that it's the so

called Joshua sheep that was raised in and around Bethlehem.

No, it's not like I said.

Exodus and Leviticus both say it was the fat tail,

it was the wassi sheep. When you realize that, wait

a minute, those drop in the three weeks we're talking about.

Two weeks in December and one in January.

That gets people attention. When you put all these little markers,

all of a sudden, what the Bible's saying makes complete

sense as to why he said my sheep.

Hear my voice.

I'm literally saying he must have been born in that

three week that three week period.

So you know it, and this is not hard information

to find out. Now.

I've always stated this that it's okay if a sermon

wants to base his his sermon off of agriculture. I mean,

if he's going to talk about wheat, he better figure

out wheat, right right. If all these pastors are going

to talk about sheep and they're just going to latch

onto the Joshua sheep, they better do some research. They

better know what they're talking about, because this is simply

a matter of fact. The Bible is talking about the

fact out to washing sheep.

It yeah, yeah, it mentions them specifically, and you know

it is just this breed. So when Jesus says, my sheep,

hear my voice. You know, they should have known what

sheep that they were talking is the only one mentioned

in scripture. So now people, you know, the majority of

pastors and teachers and preachers, they will get up there

and just with out a hesitation, not missing a beat,

all sheep are born in the spring. Now, this is

pretty tough because you know, preaching that from the pulpit,

because that's a lie. That's just a straight up lie,

and it comes from just not knowing you know enough

about the subject. But that's the that's what's being pushed

by the unbelievers. So it is the spirit of man

that's being put out there and they are grabbing hold

of it. And one of the reasons is because Google algorithm,

these Facebook algorithms, they seem to work against Christianity in general.

And it's the easy, the easy answer, and so a

lot of passes are you know, they're trying to hurry

up and they're just trying to get get get done

with their research, and so they pick up what's easy

and they're not doing in depth research for humbling themselves

enough to ask any questions to anybody, which you know,

that's one of the problems in Christianity as well. But

it has grown immensely that people are not accepting Christianity

because of what is being taught you know, online behind

the ball, and it is. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

You can just do an exe Jesus on these sheep

and Exodus Leviticus. It's not that hard to do.

If that be the case, why aren't these pastors correcting

their sermons.

Why aren't they.

Getting up on Sunday morning and say, you know what,

I was wrong. I had this you know, unsubstantiated report

about all sheep being born in spring and corrected. Why

aren't ministries correcting this error?

It should be it should be self correct. Part of

the problem is no one's holding them accountable. A lot

of a lot of pastors, you know, they're they're hearing

from God on a lot of stuff, and they are indeed,

in fact doing that. And I'd say the majority of

the pastors are they're they're good people, they're good, uh,

and they are called by God. But in this instance

they're they they come against something that is not of God.

And we'll just say that they're influenced their own birthdays

but they won't celebrate Jesus' birthday. I mean, there's there's

something to that. You will take that where you want to,

But it should be more important to celebrate the birthday

of Christ because I believe that you will celebrate the

birthdays of the people you love, and the ones you

do not you will find a reason not to. And

I don't know exactly why people are trying to find

a reason not to celebrate the birth of Christ, but

they are doing it.

Well, you know, that's one thing I take Kyaumbridge with.

We need to talk about this for a minute. Okay,

So is it a pagan a ritual to celebrate people's

individual birthdays, because that's not what my research tells me.

So what group, what, what demographic is known for celebrating

people's birthdays.

It is actually Christians. They celebrate birthdays of kings almost everywhere.

But Christians always celebrate birthdays, and it's historical. There's people

who have talked about Christians celebrating birthdays back in the

second century and it says that they love to celebrate

their birthdays and they always celebrate. It says that they

do not celebrate any feast or any festivals of the Pagans,

and that's what they have come straight out and said,

none of them, they don't celebrate anything pagan. And this

is like back in two hundred about two hundred AD,

when they were saying this. What happened after that? You know,

they may have started to adopt some pagan stuff, but

before that they did not. So the day is pure.

Like I said, there's no pagan holidays that happened on

December twenty fifth at all. That day is pure. The

closest is December twenty third, and there's a lot on

the solstice, but uh, there are none for that date.

It is completely pure. As picked for a reason because

there are no pagan deities on that day. And I've

checked them all. I've looked into them all and it

is a clean date. But yet you hear people preaching

that it is a pagan holiday and they just just

like to repeat it.

Well, that's just pretty amazing to me because you would

think that this, this ritual of celebrating people's individual birthdays

came from the Pagans, but come to find out, it didn't.

It came to Christians.

It is Christian, it's mainly Christian. We're probably one of

the only societies or groups of people where everyone's birthday

is celebrated. In the pagan cultures, it's only the kings

that are celebrated because they're the only one that matter.

But not in Christian communities. We're all kings, we're all

sons of God, so everybody is important, and that's the

reason why. Now there are three three societies, three civilizations.

One of them is the Donatist and they are in

northwestern Africa, and they have celebrated the birth of Christ

from the very beginning and they have continued it. So

people like to say that it started at Constantine. There's

nothing before three point thirty, and that you know, it's

a pagan holiday. All these these are like three pillars.

These are three lives that get preached all the time.

The Donatists have celebrated it ever since the beginning, ever

since it happened, the birth of Christ. So this is

North Africa, in the Middle East, in Syria, the Syriac

Church has celebrated and it's recorded that it has been

celebrated from the very beginning. So this civilization has kept

that tradition the whole time. And the Gauls from France,

they too have celebrated December twenty fifth, the day of

the day of Jesus' birth, this whole time. So there's

three civilizations from different areas of the world, the Middle East, Africa,

and France in Europe that have celebrated this that really

didn't have a whole lot of contact with each other,

but they all knew that December twenty fifth was the

birth of Christ. Now, people like to pen all kinds

of other dates all over the place, but there are

no other dates in history. I mean, people just knew.

There's too many quotes for the December twenty fifth, too

many things point to it. There may have been a

few people who were, you know, misinformed or you know,

just didn't under didn't know what was going on in

the world. Much like see who was it Venerable Bead.

Venerable Bead. He was a Catholic monk and he was

very anti Christian, but he was only gathering information from hearsay,

and so he was very anti December twenty fifth. He

kind of said it was all pagan. He's one of

the only people in history that really was adamant about that,

and it was just because he was disconnected. He was

a monk, Catholic Monk in Britain, in Great Britain, and

so that was few and far between. But people penn

like depended in September eleventh, that's one of the days

that's commonly cited by Christians. But you know, like I said,

it has to be like you said, it has to

be in those three weeks of the last two weeks

of December or in January, or you just got the

wrong date. There's a guy that mentions that he believes

it's at the New Year's when during the landing season,

and he's got videos and he's been on podcasts talking

about it. He's probably one of the most popular Christian

apologetics that is pushing this idea that Jesus was born

in the spring and all this. Seeing that he made

up the date and is wrong on the sheep, he

starts out in error with the sheep. Then he goes

and confirms it with astrology. And the idea is that,

you know, I'm going to pitch astrology two Christians to

prove this date that I proved with the wrong sheep.

And just like Jesus said, my sheep will hear my voice.

That's another sheep that's another sheep.

Yes, you know, that's pretty amazing that you've come up

with three witnesses, three different cultures, three different continents, literally,

three different continents. You got one group in Europe, one

in the Middle East, one in Africa, all stating from

the very beginning of their church history that December twenty

fifth is the date. To me, that right there is

just in your face that this is what it is.

It had no origin in the pagan world, it never

did no and that I really take great umbrage with that.

And you know, one of the things that's always bothered me,

and you alluded to it, is that it seems like

to me, a whole lot of these preachers are really

preaching that they don't want you to celebrate Christ's birth.

Yeah, there's mixed about that, and some of them will

say it's okay to celebrate it. Some of them just

straight up say it was not on December twenty fifth,

as if you know, God himself has told them this,

But most likely it was the Internet, and that's about it.

It was just, well, it sounds like to me that

you have put together enough evidence that you would have

to reckon this to Hebrews chapter twelve, it would seem

like to me, you have a cloud of witnesses here.

Yes, I have many witnesses. Yeah, it's the majority. I

mean when I first started, you know, there was a

few Theophilists who like us, that mentioned the December twenty

fifth date before. But you know, a hell storm of

evidences started pouring through and the next thing you know,

I've got seventy to one hundred witnesses of the December

twenty fifth date. So that are historical going back before Constantine.

So when people say there is nothing before three point thirty,

a d oh, nothing could be further from the truth.

There are tons of people. I read some earlier, but

I could read them. I could read them for the

next hour because there's just so many. And there's other

there's other you know, instances too. For example, there are

two census. There are two census that talk about the

birth of Christ that give the birth of Christ is

December twenty fifth, And these census had to know the

birth of Jesus because it was the taxes go by

the day that you were born. So there are two

two census that also mentioned the December twenty fifth date. Now,

apart from all this, there are other things that the

integral year and and no Domini. There's all of these

things like talking about comparing dates that have to do

with Adam to Jesus. There's all these dates that go

with and allude to the idea that Jesus was born

on December twenty fifth. So everything that I've talked about

so far, you know, I could just scrap all that

and then show you a ton more evidences. We could

have another podcast on just stuff I haven't talked about

so far. And it's pretty it's pretty convincing when you

really dig into it, and it is it is seemingly endless.

I believe that before I go to publish, because I

started to do one book and the book has just

grown so much that I'm going to need to make

three books. And these are not going to be books

on the traditions of Christmas. They are just going to

be about proving that December twenty fifth date. And so

I will have three books that do nothing but that.

Well, it sounds like to me that what you're really

talking about here is second tenththy, chapter four, verse three.

I mean, if you've got this much evidence for the

December twenty fourth date, you're gonna write.

Three books on it.

It just seems like to me, with that much evidence,

it just sounds like, you know, two Timothy chapter four,

I'll start reading for the time will come. Well, they

will not endure sound doctrine. If you've got that much

evidence to do three books. The only reason why you

would not believe this, the only reason why you would

reject it and claim that it is pagan, is that

you are refusing sound doctrine.

Your ears won't hear it. That's what it sounds like

to me. Chris, Yeah, there was. You know, in the past,

there were a few groups that didn't believe in Christmas.

There was you know, the Quakers. I think some of

the Quakers rejected it outright, they were some of the first.

And then there was you know, the Jehovah's witnesses. They

don't like the idea of Christmas and so they won't celebrate.

But now it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what Chris denomination,

they've all abandoned it. Uh. I'll give you some examples,

Uh Church of Christ, Uh pastor there. I've had long

discussions with Calvary Chapel, same thing. I've been to all

these churches Trinity, Baptists, same thing. Uh, several Charismatic churches,

same thing. Denomination has is doesn't divide people at all.

You are either rejecting this or or you're divided. And

and I can I keep running again. I do this

every year. I go online, and I have to fight

tooth and nail the whole time because stuff is coming

across my thread making these lying statements. And and most

of the time it's Christians, all all the unbelievers are

doing it too. But that should tell you something. Like

my work in creation when I'm I'm speaking against evolution,

there are sometimes creationists who have compromises with evolution. And

then I rebuked that, and I talked to them first

and say, you know, hey, you know you this is

this is what they're believing. So you need to step

back and think about, you know, are you doing exactly

what they want you to do? And it's the same here.

These pastors and pete and preachers and just teachers and

just every everyday Christians are picking stuff up by the enemy,

picking up what the enemy is teaching, and they adopt

it and they repeat it so uh that that just

needs to change. They need to either dig in deeper

or find somebody that is knowledgeable about the subject.

Well, you know, you a lot of people don't know

that that you do a lot of work with creationism.

But yeah, I found that out myself in this ministry

that a lot of people that profess to be Christians, Yeah,

are rejecting the seven day creation. They're rejecting the birth

of Christ, I mean, holy cal These things in the

beginning were called heresies. Yeah, but why don't you describe

that because this isn't.

Your only game.

You do a lot of creation stuff too, So where

can people get a hold of your creation stuff?

You can go to Greater Ancestors my on Facebook. I

have a Greater Ancestors page and I post stuff on

there all the time. I have a Greater Ansets dot

com and most most of my creation stuff is based

on giants, not not just the nephil on I rarely

talk about the nephil I actually talk about all the

animals and all and all people being bigger, better, faster, stronger,

smarter and healthier in the past. So Greater Ancestors dot Com.

I have another page called Absolute Genesis on Facebook. But

you can also go for for a lot of the

message today. You can go to Chris L. Leslie on

Facebook and just pull up my personal page and I

have a lot of stuff on there, talking in detail

about a lot of the things we've talked about Christmas today.

You know, when you're attacking the seven day cycle and

it just reminds me of the works of the Devil. Okay,

it reminds me of uh well, first John chapter three.

I don't want to get to it too much, but

you know, if you're attacking the seven day Creation, you're

going after our very foundation. The next foundation after that

would probably be the birth of Christ. And it just

blows me away.

Yeah, it is definitely be intact. And if there is

a war going on on it over this subject, and

you know, I believe we are well into the great

Falling Way. These these are things that have to happen

before we truly fall away. Well, let me ask you

this personally, Chris Ship.

Where else would you start now me, I mean this

may not take a rocket scientist degree, but the very

first thing you would have to fall away from was

that the Lord Jesus Christ came in the flesh, right,

So that's what you'd have to attack first.

So if there's going to be a great falling away.

You would have to look for signs.

They would go after that event in Bethlehem where he

was born.

Right, So if if if it's being led let's let's say,

if it's being led by the devil, uh, and you

wanted to attack the foundation of the Bible, you would

attack Genesis. If you wanted to attack the foundation of

Jesus Christ, you will go to his birth and you

would attack it there. And so both of these are

there is no coincidence that both of these are are

under attack. It is uh, it is intentional, and it

is a good strategy to attack those first. And that's

what's going on. This. This is very similar to the

attacks on the Seven day Creation and the foundations of

creation and the foundations of a of Jesus Christ is ministry.

I don't see how that can be a coincidence. I mean,

you know, when did these attacks start? When did you

first start noticing that people were saying that Christmas was pagan?

Because don't even try it, Chris, I was grew, I

grew up in the church. I grew I went to

youth group. Don't even try it, Okay, when I graduated

high school, no Christian. No Christian would have attacked no.

So when did this start?

Do you think? You know? It's it's really disrespectful to

our parents and to our grandparents. They believed all this,

They believed, they believed December twenty fifth. When we were children,

we believed it. We didn't question that. Nobody questioned it.

It was an absolute. It was a kept tradition from

the beginning. We've got older kept traditions. The seven days

of creation. There's no reason why every single person on

the face of the earth has to have seven days

in their week, or why not six? Why not eight?

We have seven days because that's been kept mark seven

days ever since, ever since creation. Why do we have

three hundred and sixty degrees in a circle. It's because

the revolution around the sun takes three hundred and sixty

days at the beginning. Now it's three sixty five, which

means we are moving further away from the sun, so

it takes five extra days. So these are kept tradition

from the beginning of time. But for myself, it wasn't

until I got into college and I went to a

liberal arts school. So I've seen the worst. I've seen

the absolute worst. You can't get no worse than a

liberal arts college when it comes to being anti Christian.

So I was there and I had to fight tooth

and nail there. But it was in there that there

were these classes called cultural Beliefs and comparative religion classes

that had picked up on a lot of this information

from Zeitgeist, this German propaganda film. They had picked up

on his Lap and a few other people who who

were preaching this kind of stuff, who never did any

solid research, and today a lot of their stuff is rejected.

But those foundations were laid back then. And this is

probably probably in the mid nineties, mid to late nineties

when I remember, and here's here's the thing I'm ashamed of.

I fell for it, and I was teaching the same

thing that these things that Christmas wasn't true. So I

understand from people's position how they get into it, But

to stay in it once you know it's a lie,

you can't get behind that pulpit again and say, Constantine,

there's you know started the December twenty fifth. You can't

say that after you've known the truth. Once you have

the knowledge of the truth, you have to continue in

the truth because you can't plead ignorance then, and so

are you suggesting that pastors getting the pulpit and correct

what they've been preaching. Is that is that what you're

alluding to. I think they should get in front and

say that they were wrong and ask the church forgiveness

and do whatever it's needed so that the people are

not believing the lie. The whole purpose of them being

there is to hear the truth, the truth of the Gospel,

the truth of creation, the truth of Jesus' birth, because

it's important that Jesus is a historical figure that he was.

There are so many people that talk about his you know,

that were witnesses to his life, death and resurrection, and

his birth is important. It was more of a monumental

mark in time that was global and it's had a

global impact. So we can't start questioning the foundations of

the gospel, which is the birth, the virgin birth of Christ.

But because the virgin birth, you know, that's that's attacked too.

But there's a lot of things about Jesus that is

systematically attacked. And right now there's so many Christians saying, well,

we know that Jesus was not born on the twenty

fifth and I see that so much by Christians, by everyone,

and it just breaks my heart to hear them push

this lie.

And sometime you get to that point when you have

to do something about it.

Absolutely and there's just no excuse.

And it's all right to say that Constantine said that

it was the twenty fifth.

Just know and understand this.

He was only regurgitating what had been said for three

hundred years.

Yeah, yep, yep, he was. He was not the first.

And uh, you know, it's like people do research only

to that point, and then before that, once they learned

that they're done, they're not they're not looking any further.

They've got what they wanted. They they heard heard it

from other people and they just cling to it. But yeah,

it's time to let that go, you know.

And if you cling to it, you obviously have an agenda.

Chris, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and you know a

lot of these pastors and stuff, they have peers, and

you know, they're afraid to confront their peers, so they

just go along to get along. Then they keep preaching

it to their their their church, and then they're afraid.

I'm not afraid, you know, they can kill me and

eat me I'm gonna preach the truth no matter what.

I don't. I don't like lies. I don't. I'm I'm

still mad that I accepted lies. I'm lad mad at

myself when I taught this nonsense and I didn't check

into it. At the time, it was a lot more difficult.

Now it's a whole lot easier. There wasn't even much

of an Internet back then. Google was just starting. It

was a startup. So yes, it was back then it

was a startup.

But now all this information is easy to get a

hold of.

Yeah, you can.

Get the PDF form of all this documentation. You can

actually get the PDF form of it. So there's no

excuse once you have realized what the truth is to

continue in that lie. It's not of Christ. It proves

who your father is. You're a child of the devil.

If you continue in a lie and preach others to

do the same, that's that's got nothing to do with

God at all.

Yeah, like you said, my sheep, hear my voice. I

bought this not too long ago. Isaiah nine to six.

There you, a child has been born to us, A

son is given to us. Authority rest upon him, and

he his name Jesus, and that spells up.

Christmas and it spells out Christmas. You got to send

me a copy of that text. You got to send

me a copy of that text.

That is perfect.

Well, Chris, it has been a delight to have you on.

So how can people get a hold of you? How

can they get a hold of you your book? And

before you say all that, so you're talking about three

three books on December twenty fifth, what's the time frame

for getting the first one out.

I'm gonna get the first one out this year, and

then there'll be two that follows. I'm not exactly sure

I'm gonna how I'm gonna break it up and which

one's gonna come out first. But right now, like my

book is Ohio eighty eight Counties and Giants, I've got

the one on Indiana done. But I'm going to put

these Christmas books out, but I plan to have it

out before this next Christmas, so I've got a year

to do it. I'm going to push myself to do

it somehow and just make sure that you know, because

this is an important issue and it needs to be done,

and hopefully people will will buy it and study it

and research it and not put it on the shelf

and never read it and still go out there and

repeat these same lives that are so frequent.

Well, all I know is this, if you do accomplish

in getting it published and I can get a hold

of it before Christmas next year, I assure you I

will get this resource out as Christmas presents.

And that's a fact. Oh good, good, good.

Yeah, So I am excited to hear that you're next.

But now there's what ninety two counties in Indiana.

And Indiana and you have that book complete, it's completed.

What I have to do is I have to go

and and edit and take some information out, you know,

just kind of modify it and go through the editing

process and work with the publisher. And that's all that's

left on that all the research is done, which is

you know, ninety five percent of the work. Wow.

All right, Well, where can people get a hold of

you at? What's the best way to get a hold

of your stuff?

You can contact me at at my Facebook page Chris L. Leslie.

You can go to Greater Ancestors dot com, my email

lo I have my email Greater ancestors dot com at

Yahoo dot com. Yeah, just Facebook, and Greater ancestors dot com.

Mostly all right, well, Chris, it's been a pleasure to

have you on, and thank you for edifying us today,

because today we have been edified.

Thank you so much. You're welcome, sir.

All right, everybody, till next time, God bless, God Speak.

Thank you for listening to Marinath the Ministries with Matthew Miller.

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