Jacob and Esau

Good morning. Today we continue our series from Abraham to Joseph. This is now part three.

We are picking up where we left off last week. So that would mean today we pick

up in Genesis chapter 25.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

There is a topic that comes up in today's story that is one of the most like

controversial and divisive topics within Christianity, in my opinion.

It's the one that I've seen like in all my years of Christianity when I was

a kid and even as an adult. It's just, it's like, it's just the worst one as

far as like Christians disagreeing about it and getting upset at each other.

And I can't believe you think that.

And someone's, you know, storming out of a Bible study and someone else going

like, well, we're going to go back to the Lutheran church now.

And so just that I've seen the most, this has been like the,

we're like, we're not gonna be friends with them anymore.

Like I've seen stuff like that about this topic. And so part of me wants to

just avoid the topic, you know, like just notice the elephant in the room and

walk around the elephant in the room.

But then it's also true, like we have been growing as a church, okay?

Just more and more people keep showing up. And as that happens,

like it causes things for me to have to think about as far as like,

well, when do we have to add another service?

And when do we have to hire another staff member? And when do we have to build another building?

And so I was thinking, if I can offend 30 or 40 of you today, enough that you go.

It will put off me having to think about all that. So that's a win.

Genesis chapter 25. Here we go. We'll see what happens.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

I guess I'm good either way. So Genesis chapter 25.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

Um, the, this is our text, but it's, there's 34 verses in the chapter,

but I'm going to point out to you, I'm not going to really focus much on the first 18 verses.

The first 18 verses of this chapter contain sort of mostly incidental information

that is not connected to the main story.

So I'm going to go through the first 18 verses real quickly,

and then we're going to focus on the second half.

So if you have your Bible with you, Genesis chapter 25, the first paragraph

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

of the chapter, which is verses one through six would be the story,

uh, would be an accounting. and there's not even much of a story to it.

It's just the accounting of Abraham's second wife.

So Abraham early in his life had a wife named Sarah and then later on in life

had a wife named Keturah and he had sons and probably daughters as well,

but he had kids with Keturah.

It's not really connected much to the overall story.

In fact, it is very clear that the sons that Abraham has with Keturah,

his second wife, are not the sons of the promise.

They are not the people who are gonna inherit the promised land.

They're not really connected to all of these promises and all of this stuff

that's been the subject of the book of Genesis up to this point.

Okay, it's still Isaac from his first marriage.

Then when you look at the second paragraph, which is verses 7 through 11,

we see Abraham dies and Abraham is buried.

And Abraham is buried in that same very well-described cave that we learned

about two weeks ago. Do you remember that?

Right, two weeks ago, he bought this field with this cave and he buried Sarah in it.

And I told you, as you go through the book of Genesis, after that point,

There's like every single time it's brought up, it's, or almost every time that

it's brought up, it is like very like well described.

Like there's a whole property description every time. So that happens in this chapter.

The whole, the thing is described all over again and Abraham is buried there.

And then if you look at the third paragraph, verses 12 through 18,

you'll see Ishmael's family records.

So Ishmael would be Abraham's first son, but not son of Sarah.

So he is also not a child of the promise.

And so we have a record of his family, but he is not the person and it's not

through his line that the promised

land will come, but the records are there in verses 12 through 18.

So the next like full Bible story in the book of Genesis from last week to this

week would start in verse 19.

And so our text this morning is going to be Genesis 25 verses 19 through 34.

Genesis 25:19–34

Okay, so I'm going to read it at this time. This is the word of the Lord.

These are the family records of Isaac, son of Abraham.

Abraham fathered Isaac. Isaac was 40 years old when he took as his wife,

Rebekah, daughter of Bethuel, the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban, the Aramean.

Isaac prayed to the Lord on behalf of his wife because she was childless.

And the Lord heard his prayer and his wife, Rebekah, conceived.

But the children inside her struggled with each other. And she said,

why is this happening to me?

So she went to inquire of the Lord. And the Lord said to her,

two nations are in your womb.

Two people will come from you and be separated. One people will be stronger

than the other, and the older will serve the younger.

When her time came to give birth, there were indeed twins in her womb.

The first one came out red-looking, covered with hair like a fur coat, and they named him Esau.

After this, his brother came out, grasping Esau's heel with his hand, so he was named Jacob.

Isaac was 60 years old when they were born. When the boys grew up,

Esau became an expert hunter, an outdoorsman.

But Jacob was a quiet man who stayed at home.

Isaac loved Esau because he had a taste for wild game, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Once, when Jacob was cooking a stew, Esau came in from the field exhausted.

He said to Jacob, let me eat some of that red stuff because I'm exhausted.

That is why he is also named Edom. Edom, by the way, means red.

Jacob replied, first sell me your birthright. Look, said Esau,

I'm about to die. So what good is a birthright to me?

Jacob said, swear to me first. So he swore to Jacob and sold his birthright to him.

Then Jacob gave bread and lentil stew to Esau. He ate, drank, got up, and went away.

So Esau despised his birthright.

And that's where the story ends, and that's where the chapter ends.

So this particular narrative, if you were going to try to break it down into

smaller subsections, it really breaks into two sections fairly easily.

There's verses 9 through 26, and then verses 27 through 34.

Verses 19 through 26 describe Jacob and Esau in the womb, and then at birth.

And that section also includes the prophecy that was made about their future.

Okay, so that's like the first part of the story is babies in the womb and then babies just born.

And while they were in the womb, God said, this is what the future will be.

Then the second part, and there's kind of like a giant fast forward button that

gets pressed between verse 26 and 27. Did you notice that?

In verse 26, it says Isaac was 60 years old when they were born.

So, right, so they're just born.

And then the next verse, 27, when the boys grew up, Esau became an expert hunter.

So there's, so between this verse and this one, and there's no childhood mentioned,

just fast forward, they go from babies to adults.

And they grew up, and there's Esau, and there's Jacob, and they're doing the

things that they're doing as adults.

And then the next, the story that's in the second half, that happens to them

as adults, is, it sort of is the, it's the beginning of the fulfillment of the

prophecy that came in the first half, right?

When they were babies, there was this prophecy, the older will serve the younger, and all that.

And then in the second, the story that comes right after it,

they are adults, and that begins to happen, right?

The older serving the younger, the firstborn actually selling his right of firstborn to the secondborn.

So what's going on here in this story? As we see this prophecy that's made when

they were babies start to come true, what is it that is actually happening here?

When I was a kid, I remember learning this story and it seems like the teacher,

I mean, maybe I wasn't listening very well, but it just seems like the teacher's

like, yeah, you know, he sold his birthright.

And we were all supposed to be like, yeah, birthright. Yeah.

But like, what is that? What's a birthright?

So in this story, we see that Jacob says, that's what I want. I want the birthright.

And Esau wants the soup. And so they trade, right? And Jacob says,

well, I'll give you the soup if you give me the birthright. Well,

is that a good deal or not? What is a birthright?

So as best as I understand, in ancient culture, the birthright would be the

right of the firstborn son that he got at birth for being the first one born.

And it's related to inheritance, and it's related to who would be the head of

the family upon the death of the father.

So apparently, like at this point in ancient culture, if you have a man and

that man has four sons, okay? And then that man dies.

Who takes over as the head of the family after he dies? Apparently,

it is not a committee of four people.

It is just the firstborn that takes over, right? And the other three,

I guess, go start their own families.

The firstborn is the one who takes over after the father.

Later on in Israelite history, I think it's true that the firstborn also would

get a larger share of the inheritance compared to son two, three, or four.

Although, I don't know if that's the case at this point in history,

because this is way earlier than when the nation of Israel was founded.

But anyway, but we definitely have this right of the firstborn,

the person who receives the inheritance, the person who's the head of the household,

the person who takes the covenant on to the next generation.

And Esau is the person who rightly has it because he's the firstborn from birth

and he sells it to Jacob, which is probably why when we talk about the generations

in Genesis, we say Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph.

We don't say Abraham, Isaac, Esau, and one of Esau's kids, right?

Because the firstborn status was transferred over. So how does it happen?

Well, it happens because Esau comes in and he's exhausted and he says,

can I have some of that soup?

And Jacob says, you can't have my soup. And he said, but I really need the soup.

And he said, well, just give me your firstborn status.

And Esau does. Apparently birthright, like the status of the firstborn was something

that could be sold. You could sell or trade someone and go, okay, well fine.

Then the rights that come with the firstborn would be now given,

transferred from firstborn to secondborn. Now secondborn is the firstborn for legal purposes.

And so that's what happens so that's

the story they did it who is the who's the bad guy in the story and who's the

good guy in the story because we see there's a struggle between the two of them

right they struggled in the womb and then now there's this I wouldn't call it

a fight but there's this this negotiation

that happens in their adulthood who's the bad guy in my opinion.

They're both the bad guy, okay? I don't think there are no good guys in this particular story.

The reason I would say Esau's the bad guy, you can see it hinted at even in the book of Genesis.

When you look at verse 34, it says, Now that's the narrator just telling the

story. And then the next sentence is what?

So Esau despised his birthright. That's not just the narrator telling the story.

That's the narrator giving his opinion, right? He's editorializing there.

And so we see Jacob and Esau did their thing, and Esau did the wrong thing.

I think that's what's implied there. In fact, the New Testament,

when it looks back on this story, definitely says that he did the wrong thing here.

Another thing that Esau does is he catastrophizes this situation.

So he not only despises his birthright, meaning has his priorities not straight,

right? That there is this inheritance and this firstborn status that is special.

He's in the family of God. He is the son, and so this is like the covenant goes

along through him and he goes, oh, this is not as important as soup.

And so he trades his, like, for the sake of short-term appetite,

he trades away his long-term destiny.

And so that lack of priorities is a problem. But then the other thing he does

is he catastrophizes the situation that he is in.

Now, for a long time in my life, I didn't know catastrophize was a word.

And then I learned that it was, and I love it, okay?

Because there needed to be a

word for this, because it describes something that people do all the time.

Catastrophize means when you come across something in your life that is bad,

it's like genuinely it's a bad thing, but you act as if it's way worse than it is.

That is to catastrophize it. So let's say you're a kid and you do your homework

and then you lose your homework and then you got to go to school the next day

and you don't have it and you can't turn it in.

That's bad, right? But if you say, well, I'm not going to turn it in and so

I'm going to get a zero on my homework and then I'm going to get a 3.9 instead

of 4.0 and I'm not going to be able to get into Harvard and then if I don't

get into Harvard, I'm never going to marry the wife I'm supposed to.

I'm going to marry the wrong wife and she's going to divorce me and then I'll

never be able to be the president of the United States if I don't go to Harvard.

I'll probably be governor of Florida at the best and by then my second wife

will be leaving me and I'll just be in the gutter doing heroin because I didn't have my homework.

That would be catastrophizing the situation, right?

Do some of you do this? Is that why the laugh was so big? You're like,

ha ha, that's Kara. That's what she does.

Okay. I wasn't trying to like criticize anybody in particular,

but I think, I think it's what Esau does here.

Because when you look at the story, Esau comes in and I could be wrong.

Maybe he literally is on death's door and I'm reading the story wrongly,

but he comes in and he says, can I have some of that red stuff?

I'm exhausted. Jacob says, sell me your birthright. And Esau says, I'm about to die.

What good is a birthright to me? Right? Well, you're going to be the firstborn

anyway when I pass away and die right here. Because if I don't get that soup

right now, I will fall over and die right now.

It seems to me that's what his logic was.

And maybe that was the case.

But it doesn't seem like he had the ability to walk in from the field into the house.

He had the ability to have this whole conversation with Jacob.

It doesn't seem to me that his organs are shutting down and he's literally about to die right there.

It seems to me that he is just allowing his short-term appetite,

though it might have, I mean, I don't doubt that he was really exhausted.

Maybe he was about to faint.

But it seems to me that his short-term appetite was something he was concerned

about more than his whole future.

Okay, so that's why I think Esau did the wrong thing. I think Jacob also did

the wrong thing. Jacob is Esau's brother.

He is supposed to have brotherly love for his brother. His brother comes in

and says, I'm exhausted. I need some soup. And Jacob's making soup.

What should he have done?

Given him some soup. It's his brother. He's supposed to love him.

He should treat him the way he wants to be treated.

Instead, Jacob is a selfish, manipulative jerk who takes advantage of the vulnerable,

who realizes that Esau is in a spot where he is willing to give up something

very valuable for something very not valuable.

And it'll harm Esau and it'll be good for Jacob and he just goes for it.

Okay, so I think they're both bad here.

So that's our story, okay? Before these, so these two twins struggling in the

womb, then they're born, then they're adults, and then this is the first story

that we have right after their birth.

And so before they were born, like this all happens, but before they were born,

God had declared certain things would happen later on in their adulthood. Did you catch that?

Like, so if you were just to look at these two stories, which are back-to-back

in the Bible, God says, when they're babies, this is gonna happen,

and then the very next story, they're adults and it begins to happen.

And so this story brings up the

ideas of human decision-making and God predetermining things. All right?

And so many people have noticed not only in this story, but this definitely

happened with this story, but there are other places in the Bible as well.

Well, they will point out, well, wait a minute.

And it's phrased different ways, but I would say this is a way it's often phrased.

Lots of Christians have come to this point where they go, wait a minute.

If God decides things ahead of time, then do humans make real decisions for

which they are responsible for, right?

If God says, this one's going to do this, and this one's going to do this,

then when the time comes and the people are doing, making the decisions,

are they real decisions?

And are the people responsible for them? Or is this just what God determined would happen?

Or another way that you could say it, you could flip it around.

You could say, if human beings make real choices, doesn't that mean that God

cannot decide things ahead of time because they have to be able to make the

choice and it's a real choice.

And that's the topic that I mentioned that people get upset about,

that Christians disagree about, and Christians have been like struggling with

this like philosophical issue for 2,000 years now.

If God is sovereign, how can humans be making decisions that they are responsible for?

So let's go ahead and look at what the New Testament says when it looks back on this story.

Because if we look at the story, we go, okay, well, how is it that we are to

take it? Well, we are fortunate because we actually have commentary from God

about this story in the New Testament.

There are times where people that got inspired to write stuff look back at this

story and said stuff about it.

So let's go ahead and look at what I'm going to look at two places in the New

Testament, probably the most

prominent two places in the New Testament that look back to this story.

So let's start with Hebrews chapter 12.

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

If you have a Bible, you can turn to Hebrews 12, verse 15 and 16.

Hebrews 12:15

The writer of Hebrews is writing to Jewish people in the first century,

telling them how to live.

And this is a section where he's telling them how to live. I'm going to, well, I'll just read it.

Hebrews 12, verse 15. Make sure that no one falls short of the grace of God,

Hebrews 12:15

and that no root of bitterness springs up, causing trouble, and by it defiling

many, right? So he's telling them how to live.

And then this is, that was just for context. Now here it is, verse 16.

And make sure that there isn't any immoral or irreverent person like Esau who

sold his birthright in exchange for one meal.

Well, what is he referring to here? He's referring to Genesis chapter 25,

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

our text for this morning, right? He's referring back to it.

So he says, make sure among you, so this is like thousands of years later, in the first century.

He is saying, make sure that there isn't among you anybody who's immoral.

This is a word that can't usually mean sexually immoral, although it's just

translated in a more general way here, or irreverent. I believe that can mean like godless.

And then starts referring to Esau. So Esau is a person who did this.

And then the description for Esau is the description of what he did in the story that we learned.

Esau sold his birthright in exchange for one meal. The way that this is worded,

you can tell the writer of Hebrews is saying, Esau made the wrong decision, right? It was bad.

It's not like, oh, he got tricked or he shouldn't have or whatever.

It's just, no, he did this and he was an immoral, irreverent person.

He should not have sold his birthright in exchange for one meal.

He should not have taken this thing that was wonderful, this inheritance that

God gave him and this covenant that God was passing through that family and

just exchanged it for one bowl of soup. He should not have done it.

So it seems to me, this particular passage, when it looks back at the story

of Jacob and Esau, the writer of the story acts like humans are responsible

for the decisions they make, right?

Esau is responsible for the decision he made. You can tell that the writer of

Hebrews assumes that. It's like, well, he couldn't help it.

No, the writer seems to be saying Esau should not have done this.

That was a bad choice that he made.

And then the context is, is he's talking to other people and he's saying,

so don't be like Esau, right?

So he's saying Esau had a choice to make. Esau made the wrong choice.

And then he's saying to the Jewish Christians in the first century,

you all have choices to make, right? You are responsible for your decisions.

So don't do what Esau did, right? Make the right choice.

That's what we see in Hebrews chapter 12.

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

All right, now let's also look at how the story is referred to in Romans chapter

Romans 9 · chapter mention

9, because it comes up fairly famously there as well. Romans chapter 9.

Romans 9 · chapter mention

And there's a lot in Romans chapter 9. It is, a lot of people would say it's

Romans 9 · chapter mention

one of the most difficult chapters in the whole Bible.

I can't read you the whole thing, but I got to start somewhere.

So I'm going to start in verse 10, because that's where it really moves on to

the story in Genesis chapter 25.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

So Romans chapter 9, starting in verse 10.

Romans 9 · chapter mention

It says, and not only that, but also Rebecca received a promise when she became

pregnant by one man, our ancestor Isaac. Oh, well, that should sound familiar. Who's Rebecca?

She's the one in Genesis 25 that was pregnant with the twins,

and the twins were struggling within her, and she said, what is going on here?

That's what's being referred to at this point.

Okay, Rebecca became pregnant by Isaac with the twins. All right, now, verse 11.

For though her sons had not been born yet, because remember,

the prophecy where it says the older will serve the younger,

and two nations are in your womb, all of that happened before they were ever

born, when they were struggling in her womb.

For though her sons had not been born yet or done anything good or bad,

so that God's purpose according to election might stand, which the word election

here means like, it's like the word choosing.

Like we have elections in this country to choose the president.

So for God's purpose, according to his choosing, okay, the way that that would be.

So that God's purpose according to election might stand, not from works, but from one who calls.

She was told the older will serve the younger. Now, where does that phrase come

from? The older will serve the younger.

Genesis chapter 25. It's an exact quote from the story that is our text this morning.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

So the writer of Romans, Paul, is writing about that.

And he said, so when God was deciding what he was gonna do, treating people

not based on their works and who earns what, okay, he, before these twins were

even born, said the older will serve the younger.

Next verse. As it is written, I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.

Okay? You might go, well, that wasn't in the story. Yeah, that's in a different

place in the Bible. So the quote from in verse 12 is from Genesis.

This quote, I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau, is from Malachi.

Malachi was written before Romans, but after Genesis. Okay?

So Malachi was written at a time period where it was before Romans,

so the writer of Romans can refer to Malachi.

Malachi was written after Genesis, so Malachi can refer to Genesis.

And Malachi is referring back to the Jacob and Esau story, okay?

I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.

What then should, what should we say then? Is there injustice with God?

Which you can kind of see why he brings up that question at this point, right?

Because we're going, wait a minute, well, if he's deciding things before people

are born, then isn't that not fair?

So he asked the question, what should we say then? Is there injustice with God?

And the answer, absolutely not.

For he tells Moses, I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Now, this is a quote from the book of Exodus, okay? I'm not going to cover it

today because we're in a series on Genesis, and that's enough.

But if you want to know more about this section of Exodus, we did do a series

on the book of Exodus here a few years ago.

The recordings of that series are on our website. You can look and see what

we said about this back then when we were going through Exodus,

but I'm going to keep going. Verse 16.

So then it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God who shows mercy.

For the scripture tells Pharaoh, I raised you up for this reason so that I may

display my power in you and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.

That's another quote from the book of Exodus. I'm moving on. Verse 18.

So then he, the he here is God, shows mercy to those he wants to.

And he hardens those he wants to harden.

And then Paul says, you will say to me.

Therefore, therefore, meaning like in response to what I just said,

you will say to me, why then does he still find fault for who can resist his will? Okay.

Which this, can we have that up here? That's the very next verse.

He so shows mercy to who he wants to do mercy.

So you will say to me, therefore, why then does he still find fault for who can resist his will?

So he's saying like, in reaction to what I just told you, the reaction from

you is going to be like, well, wait a minute, how can God hold us responsible

for what we do if he's deciding ahead of time who he's going to show mercy to

or who he's going to harden.

Who can resist his will? Who can do anything different than what God has already predetermined, right?

That seems like a very reasonable question. And so that makes sense why he brings

it up here. But apparently it's not super reasonable because look what he says next.

But who are you, a mere man, to talk back to God?

Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, why did you make me like this?

Or has the potter no right over the clay to make from the same lump one piece

of pottery for honor and another for dishonor, right?

Can the potter get a piece of clay and can he take some of it and make a statue

out of it and some of it and make a toilet out of it? Is he not allowed to do whatever he wants?

So when you look at Hebrews chapter 12 and it referring back to Esau,

Hebrews 12 · chapter mention

it acts like humans are responsible for the decisions that they make.

And then you look at Romans chapter 9 and it seems to say God is the sovereign

Romans 9 · chapter mention

determiner of things, and we have no right to talk back to him about that.

So then you end up with like two sides a lot of times, right?

There's like people who are uncomfortable with the idea of predestination,

God predetermining things, and then people who are comfortable with it, right?

That you have, and that is especially true when it comes to passages like Romans chapter 9.

Romans 9 · chapter mention

It's a notoriously difficult passage, and the people who are more uncomfortable

with predestination, meaning someone that goes, I do not, I do not like the

idea of God loving someone or hating someone before they're born.

Like that just, that doesn't match his character in other places in the Bible.

So there must be some way that we figure out what this actually means.

And then you have people who are comfortable with God predetermining things

ahead of time and the potter can do whatever he wants with his clay.

And those two types of people are going to interpret Romans 9 very differently.

So, what I want to do now is I'd like to give you one point from each side of

what those people would say about this.

What's something that the non-predestinarian people would say about Romans 9,

and then what would the predestinarian people say about Romans chapter 9?

Romans 9 · chapter mention

And I want to give you one point from each of them, because I think it will

give us a fuller understanding of this passage.

So let me start with the non-predestinarian. This is not God predestining people

and somebody goes to heaven, somebody goes to hell.

Okay, when that person comes to this passage, what do they say?

So I'm going to tell you what they say, and this is not a straw man.

I'm telling you what they say because I've listened, I've read,

I know what it is that the person who believes that says.

And so, in fact, the thing that I'm going to tell you right now,

I believe is the strongest argument that I have ever heard for the non-predestinarian

interpretation of Romans 9. This is the best one I've ever heard.

The person would say this. They would say, Romans chapter 9 is about nations

Romans 9 · chapter mention

of people. It's not about individuals.

And so you have to just look at the whole chapter in context,

particularly the verses that are being quoted from the Old Testament.

And you have to notice that that's what it's about.

It's not about God hating someone or loving somebody before they're born.

And it's not about God predestining individual people for salvation,

but it is about God showing favored status to one nation over another.

He chose the Israelites and he didn't choose the Edomites, and that that's what this verse is about.

And that if you go back and look at these verses in their original context,

you'll see that. And so I did.

I looked it up because he said all of these, particularly the ones that are

about Esau, I think people will point this out.

They will say, if you go back to see what these verses were in the Old Testament,

they're referring to nations of people. They're not referring to individuals.

So I looked it up to see. And sure enough, that is correct.

These are references to people groups and not individuals. These are references

to God's choosing of a nation.

So if you go back to verse 12, when it says, not from works,

but from the one who calls, she was told the older will serve the younger,

right? That's a quote from Genesis 25.

But if you go back to the prophecy, you may remember that what God prophesied,

when the twins were born was not very much about them as individuals, right?

When Rebecca inquired of the Lord, God did not say, there are twins in your womb.

God said, there are two what in your womb? There are two nations in your womb.

And one of them will be stronger than the other, meaning the nations will be, right?

And one of them will be two separate nations, one that are stronger than the

other, and the older will serve the younger.

The reference really is to nations in the original context.

The same thing is true in verse 13, when it says, as it is written,

I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.

If you go back and look at that quote in Malachi, you will see that the word

Jacob in Malachi is being used as a codename for the nation of Israel.

And the word Esau is being used as a codename for the Edomites, okay?

It's not actually talking about them as individuals, it's hundreds of years

later talking about their countries and they're calling their nations by the people's names.

So it's saying this is not about individual salvation, but rather this is God

determining nation's status, right? That he favors one nation over the other.

He chose the Israelites and not the Edomites, okay?

Now, as I explain that to you, those of you who are here who are uncomfortable

with predestination, you may at this point be going, oh, thank you so much,

pastor, because when you first read that, oh, I did not like it,

and now I feel much better.

Well, don't get too excited, because here's the other point.

The other side would come along and say this.

If the principle that this is how God works,

based on mercy, not based on how someone earned it, like before they even exist,

if this is based on God's choosing, not from works, but by the one who calls,

like if this in principle is true of groups or of nations,

then wouldn't it apply to the individual people that make up those nations?

Like if this is how God treats groups of people, wouldn't it be true that groups

of people are made up of individual people?

And if in principle, God shows mercy to who he shows mercy and hardens who he

shows to harden, and this is true of groups of people, would that somehow not

affect individual persons?

Especially when you consider the objection and response that Paul gives after

he explains all this, right?

After he explains all this stuff, he says, some of you will say to me,

why then does he still find fault for who can resist his will,

right? And then he has to give an answer to that objection.

And the answer that Paul gives is not, hey, don't just chill out.

This is not about you as an individual.

This is about nations, right?

Why would you even ask, why would God find fault with you and you resisting

God's will? Well, this isn't about you. This is about the Edomites and the Israelites.

That's not what Paul says. What Paul says is, God gets to do whatever he wants, right?

Well, then what do we do? So I'm going to tell you what I have been saying about

this topic for 15 years now. Okay. I've been saying the same thing for 15 years.

I've said it to almost everybody the same way every single time they ask.

Okay. So let me just tell you what I have been teaching on this topic for 15 years.

And when I say teaching, like mostly one-on-one, I have mostly avoided this

topic on Sunday mornings.

Those of you who've been here for a long time, you may have noticed that like,

whoa, he never does this. Yeah, that's on purpose. Okay?

I have mostly avoided this topic on Sunday mornings because I don't like hate

mail. I don't like emails. I don't like people, you know, what about this verse

in Ezekiel? And I can't believe you would say that.

And now I got to go back and be a Methodist. And I can't believe my children

were there and blah, blah, blah.

Okay? And so I don't like arguing about this.

I don't like arguing about this. I don't like arguing about this.

So I have mostly avoided it on Sunday mornings. However, I have been unable

to avoid it completely because I am a pastor and people come up to me one-on-one

and ask me about this all the time.

And so I have had to answer this question over and over again,

and I'm finally now going to do it in public.

So this is what I say every time. One person is super excited.

Everyone else is thinking about what church they're going to visit next week. All right.

This is what I've been saying for 15 years. God is sovereign and humans are

responsible for the things they do.

Somehow those two things are true. God is sovereign. He is in control of his whole creation.

And humans are responsible for the things they do. They make real choices.

Somehow those two things are both true. You go, well, how are they both true? I don't know.

But that's the worldview of the Bible. I don't know how those two things are true.

I know that those two things are true because the Bible says that over and over and over again.

This is something you see in the Jacob and Esau story very clearly because God

is the one who decides ahead of time what's going to happen.

He doesn't just predict what's going to happen.

Romans 9 says he did it for purposes of election, for his choosing, right?

And yet, Esau makes a real choice, and the writer of Hebrews sure treats it

like a real choice and uses it as an example to tell other people what real

choices they ought to be making.

So it's not just this story. It's all over the Bible. I'm going to give you

just three examples, but there's probably more.

Later on in the book of Genesis, if the Lord wills, we will get there.

There's a story about a character named Joseph. And in Joseph's story,

he has brothers, older brothers, and the older brothers are very terrible.

And they sell him into slavery. And he ends up in Egypt.

And then once he's in Egypt, he ends up being a bigwig and in charge,

and their whole family survives a famine because of him.

If you read that story and you ask the question, who sold Joseph into slavery?

Who caused him to be sold in slavery and in Egypt?

Okay, if you ask the question, like the writer of Genesis, who did the writer

of Genesis think caused Joseph to end up in slavery? If you read it,

I'm just going to give you a spoiler right now.

The story says the brothers did it and God did it.

Genesis says that. Genesis says the brothers definitely did it.

And Genesis, at least two other times, says God is the one who did it.

And when the Bible says that the brothers did it, it makes it very clear the

brothers chose to do it and they were bad for choosing to do it.

And God chose to do it and God was good for choosing to do it and he saved the

whole family through that decision.

How is it true that both the brothers did it and God did it?

I don't know. But that's what the book of Genesis says.

This is in the book of Jonah as well if you read the book of Jonah you'll see

in chapter one the sailors throw Jonah overboard there's this

big storm the sailors figure out that it's Jonah's God that's causing this curse

upon them and they're like we got to get rid of him so they chuck him overboard

I mean they were a little reluctant I don't think they wanted to kill anybody

but eventually they did um at least they planned to like they got they picked

it they physically like the sailors picked up his body and threw him into the

sea and it says that in Jonah chapter one and And then in Jonah chapter two,

it says that God hurled Jonah into the sea.

So who threw Jonah into the sea? Did the sailors do it or did God do it? They both did.

Well, how is that possible? I don't know. That's what the story says.

Let me show you one in Nehemiah. This is probably my favorite one because we

have divine sovereignty and human responsibility all in the same sentence. Nehemiah chapter four.

I'll read you the sentence. It won't sound remarkable if you've never heard

the story before, but I'll read the sentence, then I'll tell you the story and

then you'll see why it's a big deal.

Nehemiah chapter four, verse nine says this. So we prayed to our God and stationed

a guard because of them day and night.

Now here's the story. The story is the Israelites have gotten back to the promised

land and they're rebuilding Jerusalem. They've been gone for a long time.

And they're setting their homeland back up again.

They want to be safe from the bad guys.

So they're building walls around the city. I think they want to have like a

fortress city, walls to the city so that when the bad guys come,

they're ready to handle it. So they're rebuilding the walls.

They are halfway done with the walls at this point of the story, okay?

They built the wall halfway up. And you may know this, about half a wall is

about as good as no wall, right?

So they have half a wall built and then they hear that the bad guys are coming

and they go, what are we going to do?

Our fortress has half walls and the bad guys are coming. What are we going to

do? And this is what they do. Okay. We got half walls, bad guys are coming. And this is what it says.

So we prayed to our God and stationed a guard because of them day and night. Do you see it?

We prayed to our God as if he is sovereign, as if he is the one who decides

whether this story ends up with a good ending or a bad ending.

We act like he's the determiner of things. So we prayed to him and And we stationed

a guard, because we're supposed to take responsibility for our own decisions,

and we're supposed to make sure that we are ready so that our wives and children

don't get slaughtered in the middle of the night.

Like the writer of this verse has this, it's all in the same verse.

God protects us and we are responsible to protect ourselves, right?

You see this all over the Bible. God is sovereign and we make real choices that matter.

How? I don't know.

One more story I will give you. This one's not from the Bible.

This is just from my own life. But I've told the story a lot of times when I've

been answering this question.

46 years ago my father cheated

on his wife he cheated on his wife with a woman who he's

not married to and the result of that encounter was me okay and sometimes whenever

we have this discussion the question is um mario was it god's will that that

would happen okay your dad cheated her mom and then now here you are like is

it god's will that you would come into the world that way?

And my answer every single time is yes and no.

No and yes. Is it God's will? No and yes. What do you mean, Mario? I mean this.

No, it is not God's will. It was not God's will for my father to cheat on his wife, okay?

Because the Bible makes it clear it is not God's will for any man to cheat on his wife ever.

It is not God's will. It is the opposite of God's will. God says not to do that.

God does not want that to happen. His word is very clear. That is not his will.

He does not want that to happen.

So it's not God's will.

And yet, do I believe that I'm here like by accident, completely apart from God's will?

Well, no, I believe God ordained the day of my conception, the day of my birth, and the day I will die.

My father made a choice, and I believe it was a real choice.

I don't think God made him do it. I think he was into it.

I think he chose to do it. And I think God chose that that would be the day Mario begins.

And how are those both true? I don't know. I'm just telling you,

that's what I see in the Bible.

And I guess what I'm trying to tell you is, I do not want to ignore half of

the verses in the Bible that are on this topic in order to make myself feel

like more comfortable or more consistent in my beliefs about divine sovereignty

and human responsibility.

I don't wanna take the verses about God's sovereignty and say,

well, those must not be true because I know that people make decisions and so

God must not really be sovereign the way the Bible says it.

And I don't wanna do the reverse of that, right? And I don't wanna say,

well, all of these verses about people making decisions, it must be illusions

and people aren't really choosing things.

No, that's not how the Bible presents it. So I'm not gonna just ditch half the

verses so that I can be consistent. I'm just going to say this is what the Bible

says, and this is what I believe.

So here's today's passage. Let me sum it up for you.

In today's passage, in Genesis chapter 25, we see that God prophesied about Esau ahead of time.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

And the New Testament says he prophesied in such a way he was choosing.

We also see in this passage, in the very next story, Esau makes a decision for

which he is responsible.

And the writer of Hebrews definitely holds him responsible.

That's what we learned in Genesis chapter 25. Let's pray.

Genesis 25 · chapter mention

Lord, I thank you for these texts in the Bible and I thank you for giving us,

I don't think you've given us all the information. I don't even know if we can handle all of it.

But I think you've taught us a lot and so I thank you for what you have revealed

to us and I pray that we would trust you and we would believe you.

And I know that there are different personalities in this room.

And so I know there are some people who are gonna walk out of here and they're

not gonna think about this again. Oh, somehow they're both true and they will

have a wonderful lunch at Sonny's.

And other people, this is going to ruin their whole afternoon.

And they will be thinking about it. And how could it be? And how could it be just?

I remember that. I remember being in Franklin, North Carolina,

sitting on the deck. I remember this bothered me for hours.

And so I pray for those people. I pray that you would comfort them and I pray

they would get through that.

But ultimately, I pray that you would, I pray that we would trust you.

I pray you would enable us to trust you, that we would find you trustworthy.

And there would be peace in this, in our minds and in our lives.

We thank you for choosing us,

and we choose to follow you.

In Jesus' name I pray, amen.

Let me read to you these good words from God's word. This is from Romans chapter eight, verse 28.

We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God those

who are called according to his purpose that is good news.