Episode 100: Interview with HH Mar Awa III on Christian Marriage & Issues of Human Sexuality

In the name of the glorious Trinity, Father and Son and Holy

Spirit, forever Amen. Glory be to the everlasting

mercies which sent you to us, O Christ, the light of the world

and the life of all. Give us wisdom by your law and

enlighten our impulses by Your knowledge.

Sanctify our souls by Your truth, and grant that we may be

obedient to Your words and may fulfil Your commandments at

every hour. O You who enlightens the

rational with the knowledge of Your greatness, do in light, O

my Lord, our thoughts, that we may meditate upon Your holy and

divine Scriptures at all times. O Lord of all, Father and Son

and Holy Spirit, forever Amen. The Holy Synod of the Assyrian

Church of the East convened in the city of Erbil, Iraq in April

of 2024, presided by His Holiness Malawi, the third

Catholic, as patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East.

After the conclusion of the holy Synod, a statement was released

by the holy Synod titled synodical statement concerning

Christian marriage and issues of human sexuality.

In our last episode, we provided and we we conducted with His

Holiness Marava, our beloved patriarch.

We promised that we would return and meet with His Holiness one

more time and discuss the actual statement.

It is my pleasure and a blessing to one more time introduce to

all beloved listeners and viewers our beloved patriarch,

His Holiness Marava. Bless us, O Lord, O my Lord, Rab

Shena Yessi. Thank you very much, Rush.

It's my joy to be back with you on this podcast.

And of course, my greetings to all of the viewers and all the

listeners. And of course, I follow the

podcast myself. So I'm very happy to be here

with you. We had a great response from

that last podcast. Thank you.

Our our ratings were up, yeah. Well, that's good.

I'm here. Your Holiness will delve

straight into the questions. There's a few questions.

We received some questions from Australia as well, our brothers

and sisters in Australia. The 1st is was there any

professional advice and data sought by the Synod prior to

this statement being released? OK.

Well, if I may let me back up just a bit to give a a brief

background to the statement. So at the conclusion of our

Synod on April 27th last, we had issued two public documents from

the Synod for the faithful. 1 was concerning the meaning of

fasting in the spiritual life of the faithful.

And the other was the statement to which she referred, which

we'll be talking about further in depth, about the meaning of

Christian marriage and the meaning of human sexuality as

well. And of course, these documents

were issued in the Assyrian language, with an English

translation, of course, which is probably the most published 1

and in an Arabic translation for the benefit of the faithful all

over the world. And the impetus behind issuing

such a statement had come actually a number of years

earlier when I was still the secretary of the Holy Sonata as

a Bishop back in 2019, between 2018 and 19, where many

inquiries had come from the faithful, predominantly in the

English speaking world, concerning the Church's stand on

various issues of human sexuality, with which obviously

all of the faithful are exposed to on a daily basis.

And the fact that the Church had not had any statement on an

official basis until that time. So that was the background and

why we, as the Holy Synod of the Church saw that it was very

befitting to have such a statement issued.

And particularly during this time where these are very

debated issues and where there are many questions, not only

from those outside of the Church, but even from the

faithful soul. It was, we believe, guided by

the Lord, that we would have such a statement.

And going back to the question your Holmes, and thank you for

that. What was the research?

How extensive was the research, or was there any professional

advice sought by the Senate prior to to drafting and

releasing the statement? Yes, with respect to the draft,

there was minimal recourse to professionals or medical

professionals. It was predominantly to the

theology of the Church and various fathers of the Church.

And the reason for that is this statement does not intend to be

a medical statement, if you will, or a a statement that

focuses on biology. The focus of the statement is

the Church's teaching. So therefore it's theological

and orientation in order to give the faithful a right perspective

concerning marriage and concerning issues of human

sexuality. And the idea is that the Church

is teaching through the Holy Synod, the faithful, what is

within the parameters of Christian living and within the

parameters of the true faith of the Church, the Orthodox faith

of the Church. So that's what the intention of

the document is. But there was a minimal recourse

to medical professionals. Let's see.

And were there any? Hindrances or any concerns

experienced in deriving to this declaration and the releasing of

the declaration. At the outset, so going back to

2018 nineteen, there were some questions as you can understand

for us coming from a background from the East, it's these issues

are very. Sensitive.

Sensitive. Often times they're even a taboo

where you shouldn't address them, especially in a public

setting or a public forum. But then of course, as I

mentioned, the the statement is a theological one more than

anything else. And so therefore, especially

with many issues that have come across all of us and especially

across the the faithful that are living in the West, North

America, Europe, Australia. We saw that it was time that the

Church had a guideline based on the canons of the Church, based

on the patristics of the church, the patristic teaching, and in

order to connect all of that and to present to our faithful today

a guideline, as it were. A footnote to the Holy

Scriptures, of course, as to how they should go about to

understand these issues and to implement what God's will is for

them as as it is declared by the Church basically in our

teaching. Yeah, All is the timing was

perfect going through what we are going through, going through

what our children are experiencing at the schools and

you know, the the challenges and the confusion that is out there.

You know, when the statement was released, it was a sigh of

relief because many of the youth would constantly approach the

priests and myself and asking about this.

But, you know, obviously from the faith-based perspective, you

know, the answer was given. But as far as where the church

was standing, there was, I wouldn't say a little unclear,

but the I, I believe there was little less confidence to give

an answer to in case it didn't line with the church's stand.

But the, the, the timing was perfect.

Your Holiness when reading the statement and of itself, it's

quite clear and precise as well presented, which is the of the

comments that we received on the fact that Christians have two

choices of lifestyle, either celibacy or legal marriage.

Now when referring to celibacy, we are specifically implying

dedication to serving to the Lord within the church, the

church rankings. We have the notion that is if a

male does not wish to be married because they just want to feel

free and not be obliged to a wedding or a wedlock.

And it's clear from the statement that the issues of the

Christian marriage between a male and female, that is a man

and a woman and totally the church refuting the same sex

marriage according to the faith, the dogma, the doctrine, the

liturgy. And as your Holiness mentioned,

the tradition of the church being built upon the foundation

of the apostles and prophets. Prophets, what, what is the

church? Can we can we, can Your Holiness

confirm that and clarify one more time because again, the

statement is out. There's still a little unclarity

among some people that the churches stands against same sex

marriage and the lifestyle of a man or a woman in concerning

celibacy and marriage is that we were born to either offer our

life totally to Christ or to be in a marriage, a wedding

marriage relationship and that is of a man and a woman and the

same sex marriage in the LGBTQ plus is totally refuted by the

church. Yes, let me backtrack a bit.

I want to put on record the the input in the initial draft and

the formulation of this document of Pasha Abraham Alphas, who

helped me at the time when I was Secretary of the Synod in

formulating the English language statement, which is the basis.

And that's that's the main language that the document was

issued in. So yes, of course, we delved

into the theology of the church in the beginning.

At the outset, and I'm referring to the document itself.

We speak about the two ways of life.

And this sort of alludes to what we read in in the D decay speaks

about the two ways, way of life and the way of death.

Of course, that's in a broader perspective of, of the reality

we as Christians live in the world as a whole.

But in terms of Christian living, Christian lifestyles, if

you will, there is marriage, of course, Christian marriage.

And for those who for one reason or another do not contract

Christian marriage, that is they they're celibates, if you will,

that that is the other way of lifestyle.

Now, whether one is married or one is celibate, and this is

based on, of course, the epistles of Saint Paul, he's

very clear on this. And either way of life that one

chooses or one discerns for him or herself, we have to glorify

Christ. If you're married, you have to

glorify Christ in your married life as a husband or as a wife

and as as spouses together. If one is celibate for various

reasons, you also have to glorify Christ in your life.

If your celibacy is consecrated, meaning one is dedicated to the

Lord. Of course that is, so to speak,

a notch above what a a lay celibate, if you will, would be

engaged in. So in whichever way of life one

chooses, you have to glorify Christ in your life.

So if one chooses to be celibate, and then we have to

see what the reasons for that of course are, then you have to

magnify God in your life. That is not a free license to

live as you will. I mean, as the Saint Paul

writes, anything we do, we do for the glory of God.

Indeed, referring to marriage union holiness again of a male

and female, we need to reiterate that at what point is a marriage

union deemed complete and fully united?

Is it after the priest or the the officiant declares that the

the male and the female declared husband and wife?

Or is there a required for consummation?

Well, in chapter 3 of the document we speak as the Holy

Synod more in depth in terms of Christian marriage and

homosexuality. So just as we as human beings

who are created in the image and likeness of God, there is a few

will, a spiritual aspect to us, to our composition, and there is

a corporeal aspect, marriage itself and the married couple,

the husband and wife who Saint Paul tells us in Ephesians 5

reflect the union of Christ and his Church also must reflect

this spiritual and there is the corporeal aspect.

So in terms of the spiritual, we have the blessing of God through

the church for the husband and the wife, the brine and the

groom. And in fact, it's interesting

because it's the Church of the East going back to at least the

6th century, which is one of the earliest canonical prescriptions

of how a marriage should be blessed in the church.

We have to remember that until the Middle Ages and even a bit

after that, in the West, particularly the Latin Church,

marriage was deemed a social contract.

So two parties agreed to live together as husband and wife,

and the presence of a priest was in that sense not necessary

because they would exchange the vows and therefore they would

commit themselves one to another.

It was more of a social, social construct.

In the Church of the East we have canonical legislation going

back to the five hundreds where the Church says no, the marriage

of a Christian husband and a Christian wife must be blessed

by God, must be in the presence of God through the mediation of

the priesthood with the presence of the cup of blessing, which is

a part of our liturgical right for the blessing and the

presence of the priest and of the cross.

So we have early liturgical prescriptions that are based on

the canons of the. Two of the sacraments of the

seven sacraments of the. Church, of course, marriage is

not considered one of the seven sacraments in the Church of the

East. That is not to say it's it's not

considered holy. That is not to say that there is

a divine blessing and invocation in the rite of marriage.

It's not enumerated among the seven in the in the Sacramento

theology of the Church. So from the spiritual side, you

have God blessing the husband and the wife through the Church,

through the priest and the liturgical rite.

And that constitutes a fulfillment of what we read in

Genesis where God blessed them and he said be fruitful and

multiply. That commandment of God which

runs through human nature is actualized for that couple at at

that time that blessing is given to them.

Now there is the corporeal aspect where the husband and the

wife, after having been blessed by God and through the mediation

of the church, enjoy those blessings when they come

together as husband and wife and they consummate that marriage.

And we believe that God also blesses them through that act as

well, because now it is a sanctified act.

So that's the corporeal aspect. So in marriage, you have the

double aspect of body and soul, you have the aspect of the

spiritual blessing and then the corporeal enjoyment of those

blessings. And that's reflected in the not

only the right, but also in, in, in the life of the and.

They must be completed, both of them, Your Holiness, both the

consummation and the. Yes, they are.

They are complementary. Now we we have read in the

history of the Church that there have been couples who although

they've been, their marriage has been blessed but by agreement

and we have canons regarding that they have agreed to live a

celibate or consecrated life. But that has to be with the

agreement of both the husband and the wife.

In a marriage union. In a marriage.

Union, yes. Civil weddings and civil

marriages totally not validated by the Church is not correct,

Your Holiness. With regard to civil marriages,

some call them civil unions. So getting that piece of paper

known as your marriage license, state law requires that.

In many countries, the law of the state will require that and

the church honors that in the sense that generally almost

across the board, we will not bless the marriage where in the

the couple does not have a marriage license from the state

from that country that they're living in.

But however, that's just in order to legalities to fulfill

the legality of it, of course, but the blessing comes from the

liturgical right that's given in the Church.

And so simply a union that's blessed, that's that comes

together, that's recognized in the state does not enjoy the

blessings of God in the eyes of the Church.

And we also have a Canon that goes back about 2025 years ago

where that says that a couple that has been married only in a

state or civil setting cannot partake of Holy Communion unless

they are blessed in the Church. That is, if they have been

married in in the city, let's make it plan, but they're not

living together, it was only for the legality.

They can still partake in the community or is it that?

If they're not living together as other than life, yes they.

We have questions from Australia, shout out to the

Aussies out there and I'll go straight into them and I I'll

read them so that I don't, I don't misrepresent the

Australians in any way. The question is, Your Holiness,

if the Church is aware that a couple requesting the blessing

of the union are willingly deciding to refrain from having

children, that is taking measures to avoid or hinder

procreation without proven medical or physical impotency,

will the couple be blessed by the Church?

If a couple approached the priest requesting that the

Church officiate their blessing of marriage and but they

indicate that they have decided they will not have any children

because they want to be free and enjoy themselves and what have

you, and again, no medical physical impotency, will the

Church bless that that marriage. In that scenario, the priest

ought not to bless the marriage and for the simple reason.

So according to the theology of the Church, there are 4 ends.

We call them the ends of marriage, which Marodisha of

Nisibis and his Maganita. He enumerates.

First and foremost that marriage is for the sake of domestic care

and labor of the husband and wife, for the rearing of

together as a couple. So they're coming together as a

couple. Secondly, for rearing or

bringing up children in the fear of God.

It's one of the ends of marriage.

Thirdly, in order to curb temptation because of our fallen

nature, we have to remember that God gave the blessing to be

fruitful, multiplied before the fall.

Man has actuated it after the fall.

And fourthly, for domestic harmony and the submission of

the husband and the wife one to another in love.

So these are the ends of marriage now?

These are what are required to have a marriage that is not

simply canonical, but also licit, if you will, meaning that

it it's right, it is the way it should be, it's proper.

It is proper if a couple were to come and say that they outright

willfully, voluntarily do not want children or will impede the

procreation of children, that is actually a very grave sin

because they're sinning against the nature of what marriage is,

is intended by the creator to be one of which the ends of

marriage, of course, one of the main ones is the procreation of

children or the continuance of the human race.

Now it often happens that there are couples where one or both

parties are not able to conceive or impotent.

Often times they discover that later on in their in their

married life and the church says they should support one another

in prayer and the church accompanies their in prayer.

But if from the outset they come and say well we do not want

children, then obviously they do not understand what marriage is

all about and it is a sin to willfully impede the procreation

of children. Now that does that mean that

every time that the husband and wife come together in sexual

union, they will necessarily procreate, but they have to be

open to God and the will of God as the author of marriage.

Amen. Who has so ordained it?

Great response. Thank you.

You know, this is, this is so informative, your Holiness.

It's putting a lot of dots on the IS and crossing the TS and

and I think. Having said that, now with a

couple that does come with that sort of an intention, of course,

in in Canada, there are always exceptions.

I mean, I mean one would have to go deep into what what is

happening there, but as a rule it is it is a sin to willfully

impede procreation of children. You holy is going back to

procreation and God's commandment to multiply and be

fruitful. The second question from

Australia's are contraceptions permitted in any case?

We talked about hindering procreation.

Are contraceptions permitted in any case?

That is, married couples deciding not to produce more

children. Well, Chapter 4, Section 4 of

the document speaks about that procreation of sterility.

As I mentioned, one of the four ends of marriage as articulated

by the Church is the procreation of children.

And if the couple or either spouses in the couple decides to

voluntarily, volitionally to to impede that, then that is

sinful. Now, there are natural means of

observing, particularly the wife, the the woman's various

cycles, bodily cycles, if you will, where they can, coming

together in prayer when they can refrain from sexual union and

that will not result in conception.

But any mechanical means outside of marriage, outside of the

husband and wife is sinful. I.

Mean and. The faithful need to be careful

about that because what happens is this is against the the

sexuality becomes, that is within the context of marriage

becomes objectivized. It's objective, it's an object.

One or both of the spouses wants the pleasure without the

blessings that come with that pleasure, which is procreation,

for example. So then the sexual union, sex

itself becomes an object, and that is gravely sinful.

I mean, I mean, before we go and Lord your Lord, your Holiness,

thank you so much. And I'm not does not finish it.

But this is such a blessing to be able to sit before the head

of the church, the patriarch of the church, and to openly speak

these in All, in all modesty and not modesty in all respect.

And the terminology which is so sanctified, in case listeners

are now little surprised that Marawa is talking about these

things. The fathers many, many years ago

have been so explicit. And they've been, yeah, they

they their comments on this is so clear.

And they didn't hold back with their language.

So those who are a little surprised, don't be take it as a

blessing where we have again, His Holiness, the head of the

church worldwide speaking with us on these very, very crucial

points to clarify. And the intention of this

episode is to drive us away from sin and to bring us into the

will of God with these these blessings that God has given us,

such as the union of marriage and the sexuality of mankind.

Indeed. Well, the the Holy Synod is

expressing the mind of the church, which is the mind of

Christ. And of course, there should be

viewer discretion for younger viewers, and they could maybe

sit in the presence of an adult, or maybe the adult could later

explain once they're old enough to appreciate these matters.

But the church needs to and should always be ready to

address where the faithful are coming from.

So I'm not saying anything new. I'm saying what is already

present in the Scriptures in various ways and in the

teachings of the church. And so we want our faithful to

be informed of what it means to be a Christian.

Saint Paul is so vocal on sexual immorality where it brings an

example. Yes, it is.

Yes. And what was the term you used

for the youngies? You just mentioned your grace,

that it must be. Explain to them.

No, no, the, the, the, the young children that are hearing this,

it has to be a little bit well. There needs to be discretion.

Discretion. Well, I'm, I'm sorry, Holiness,

this is my personal view. When you have a drag queen

sitting in front of children reading books and telling them

how a boy can love a boy and what have you, I think we can be

openly speaking now. Well, that's the issue now,

these things which at one point were taught too much older

children, for example, but there was sexual sex education in

public schools, maybe private schools and as well when they

were in the high school years and and further up.

But nowadays it's very, very unfortunate, very sad and very,

I would say even demonic to teach young children the things

that are being taught in public schools in many Western

countries. And it's not only the USI

observed this in Canada when I was there recently, it's in

Europe as well. It's another problem, probably

even in Australia, the public school systems where they're

exposing young children to these perversities and they're saying

it's OK to be transgender, It's OK to be to live out a

homosexual life. Often times they'll bring people

that are of that orientation in order to give a book reading for

the class. Recently we even saw it at the

opening of the Olympics in Paris where they were mocking one of

the most sacred mysteries of the Christian faith, which is the

Last Supper of Jesus, of his disciples, mystical Supper.

And we had, there were abominations taking place and

there was a very cheap apology that was offered by the

coordinators of the Olympics, which is very sad.

And the problem again is this, that Christians are not standing

up for their faith. Christians are.

They've become fearful and we're afraid to stand up for our

faith, and especially in countries in the West where

there are legal means in order to defend the faith.

And Christians are not doing that.

And it's shameful for a Christian not to stand up for

his or her faith today. Your.

Holiness, we understand that procreation, according to the

understanding and teaching of the Church and the Church

Fathers, is a gracious gift, a gracious provision from God by

means of the consummative act or process of a male and female,

according to the synodical statement, actions or procedures

for the production of embryos. And this is what we're going to

talk about outside of the body, namely IVF, in vitro

fertilization, which will result in many remaining embryos being

destroyed, are not merely disapproved by the Church,

rather condemned by the Church. What about your holiness?

If in the event where one or both of the spouses are non

fertile, incapable of reproducing, will the church

accept or agree the procedure that is IBF?

If there is a guarantee of no discarding of any embryos, will

that be permitted? Well, of course, the document

speaks about infertile couples and in no way does that impede a

couple that comes together first and foremost, their love for God

and love for each other and their marriage union is blessed

by God and by the Church. And if for some reason whether

either of the spouses is not able to procreate, that marriage

is not considered less of a marriage, if you will, because

they have the desire to procreate and to have children.

Often times this is a point of suffering for couples.

And we've seen that in in the pastoral setting where

oftentimes they'll seek the prayers of the church and the

blessings of the church and the prayers of the Saints to help

them. And that is a very good thing to

desire children because the Scripture says that we have to

get Maliabny and the heritage of the Lord are children.

But oftentimes, for various reasons, you'll find that

unfortunately that will not be the case.

And a couple may earnestly in prayer and in fasting and

seeking the prayers of the Saints, seek God's favor for

that. But there may be also the case,

and one has to look at it this way, that maybe God does not

desire for them to have children.

So that's where these questions come into play.

And of course, today medically, there are various means that are

that have been concocted in order to help couples to

conceive. Now IVF of course, in vitro

fertilization is one of the most famous.

At best, it has a 20% success rate.

But there are a few points with regard to in vitro

fertilization. First and foremost, the couple

should seek spiritual guidance in prayer and in fasting and,

and seeking the the, the pastoral care of the church, the

priest of the church. And in that way there should be

a spiritual discernment if that is something they should

consider or not. Secondly, there is the issue of

the creation of embryos from the from the eggs and the sperm of

the couple. Now there are various means of

freezing the embryos. First they're fertilized out

generally outside of the womb and then they're frozen.

And then there's the issue of the reproductive cells that are

that are fertilized and they're becoming discarded.

Generally there is a process where physicians will choose the

best among the fertilized eggs, if you will, and those will be

used for implantation and the rest will be discarded.

Now we believe that conception begin, life begins at the moment

of conceptions when the reproductive cells of the man

and the woman come together. And that is an act that God as

the creator has brought about. It's not simply a biological

act. God is behind that.

So therefore it's sacred and it's holy.

And to discard fertilized embryos, embryos that of course

that are fertilized is goes against the will of the author

of life, who is God. It's it's a sin to discard them

because life begins already there.

So there are other means where they can guarantee that they

will not discard the embryos. That may be an option for them

for the couple that's seeking to have to have children.

Some of the the medical professionals will also use pre

implantation, pre implantation genetic testing.

So they will check the embryos to see if there is a potential

for a disease, there's a potential for complications

possibly, or that the baby that will be born will have some sort

of a deficiency and they will discard those embryos.

And that's the caveat. That's where IVF really in that

sense is something that the faithful should be very much

careful of. There are ways where they can

request that the fertilized eggs will be used so that nothing is

discarded. And then is that guaranteed?

Well, nothing is really guaranteed.

As I mentioned, generally they say there's only 20% success

rate in that. But those are things that are

very, very important and to be aware of because we cannot have

embryos or eggs that are fertilized just being discarded.

They're frozen, they're kept for a while, and then they're

discarded because that life has already begun there.

That embryo is growing into a human person.

Now there's other means, for example, intrauterine

insemination, where the productive cells of the husband

are injected, if you will, into into the wife.

That also has a 7 to 10% success rate, more or less.

But again, there must be caution against using donated sperm, for

example, outside of the husband or any other reproductive cells

of the woman as well outside of the couple.

Surrogacy, for example, That is, that is to be avoided.

All of those are acts that really constitute a grave

violation of the sacredness of marriage and of the union of

this man and this woman. In and.

Please forgive my ignorance, I haven't spent much time looking

into this, but in the case where a mother offers her body to be

intimate, intimated if that's a word to produce a child for her

daughter. Yes, that would be surrogacy.

Surrogacy is, is is yes, because the resultant birth or

conception, as I mentioned, has to be of this man, this husband

and that's wife. It's not just having a child,

conceiving for the sake of conceiving a child.

So the the personhood of the spouses also is at play.

And that's why initially I mentioned that sexuality should

should not be objectivized because there's the dignity of

the human person as created in the image and likeness of God.

So it's not just this woman and any man or this man and any

woman. It's this man and this woman

together. Yes, yes, Adam and Eve together.

This Adam and this. This Adam and this Eve, yes,

Your Holiness, the church's stands on abortion.

Yes, we know, we have an understanding, we have an idea,

but we'd like to hear it from your Holiness.

I think it's it is included also in the in the statement.

Can you please clarify the absolute stance of the church

when it comes to abortion? Yes, of course, the synodical

statement that speaks about abortion, abortion is, is really

a grave sin in in in our world and in society.

Today. There are roughly 73,000,000

abortions committed worldwide per year.

And when you think about that, that is something that really

surpasses human understanding, that such an act could be so

perpetrated in human society today.

And the Scriptures, of course, both the Old and the New

Testament in various ways speak against abortion, the Mosaic

Law. We'll see that in the first five

books of the Old Testament in the Psalms.

And I mentioned the DDK, the beginning of our talk, which is

an early Christian document from the New Testament period that

speaks about the way of life and the way of death.

It speaks about abortion. And the fathers in the councils

of the church have always mentioned.

So abortion as such is a grave sin at any stage of pregnancy.

Nowadays you'll even hear that there are certain physicians and

maybe even certain political personages that will, that will

promote abortion even after the child is born.

Yes. And so that is the level to

which human society has been degraded.

The child will be born, Your Holiness, and the physician will

consult the mother whether she would like the child aborted or

not. So there is a child sitting on

the table, let's say. Yes, and unfortunately it's been

put into the the framework of it's called reproductive rights

today. It's called women's rights, of

course. But that child is a distinct

particular human person. I mean, that is in the womb of

the mother. Yes, the mother by the design

that God has put into human nature carries the child.

But that child is a distinct, unique human kunuma, if you

will, and therefore he or she has their own rights, the main

one of which is, of course, the right to life.

Human rights. Yes, human rights began at the

moment of conception and the right is the right to have life

because God has given life to that child just as he's given

life to that the mother of the child.

So unfortunately, and this is the degradation of society, that

reproductive rights and women's rights, they're all jumbled

together, while the child has rights as well, even though it's

an unborn child, but it's a viable, a viable life that is

distinct and unique. We call that a Gnuma, and God

has created that Gnuma to live and to have.

Life and the child has the right to be adopted by the couple who

cannot have any children and to raise the child.

Adoption. Carrying a child Of course.

Now there are other medical issues that we won't get into,

but giving a child up for adoption is always the best

choice because first and foremost, you will not end up

engaging in murder by killing a child.

Secondly, if a mother for some reason or any reason cannot keep

the child or rear the child, there is a couple that is

looking that cannot but is looking to have a child.

What about in cases of rape and incest?

Holiness. Even in those cases, there are,

they are extreme. They're beyond sad, of course,

that someone that a woman would undergo such violence and and

such suffering. But in and of itself, the ACT is

still an abortion. Whatever the circumstances might

be. When you look at the ACT itself,

it's still an abortion if the child is aborted, and that act

is still sinful. So you cannot correct a sin with

another sin. Yes.

Now in terms of culpability, moral theologians will get into,

well, let's talk about the culpability of the mother.

In that sense, yes, But the ACT is still murder.

It's still an abortion. And in the case where the

mother's life is in danger and there is a option of aborting

the child or giving birth to the child and the possibility of

possibility of the mother dying. Yes.

Well, the church hasn't spoken to that and that particular

case, and it does happen often, maybe more often than we think,

even though it it is an exception, is something that the

mother would have to decide again under spiritual guidance.

There have been mothers that have been very willing to give

their life for their unborn child.

And we have heard of many cases where, for example, so and so in

our own community, of course, where Oh yeah, he, his mother

died when she gave birth to him. She chose to lay her life for.

Her child, son or the daughter is there, and so that is.

And Christ says there is no greater love than one should

give his life or his friend. Could we say that's a process of

saving a life? It is and not killing a life.

Morally speaking, there are other considerations.

Are there, for example, 2345 other very small children that

need to be cared for? Is there a father there?

Is there not a father in the scenario?

So there are the other considerations.

But in terms of principle, and that's what the Church gives in

her teaching, is always the correct principle based on the

Scriptures and based on the teachings of the Church is that

in giving our life for the saving of another life, that is

the ultimate of Christian sacrifice in whatever context it

might be. Your Holiness, one other

question that is on the mind of many people and you know,

declaration from the Church and clarification from the Church

because we the children of God, become the children of God

through the sacraments of the Church.

And we at all times look up to the church to guide and to lead

us in our life on earth, whether it be corporal or spiritual.

A human sexuality, such a, a controversial topic today and

and it's so in my personal view is so messed up today.

But when God created man and woman, it was clear cut.

Can you please, Your Holiness, clarify and once and for all

help us to understand and to learn and to know the Church's

stance on human sexuality? The problem is that the faithful

today are more informed by the culture around them, which often

times and in many countries is, is sadly a hedonistic culture.

As opposed to being informed by what the Church is teaching,

which of course is based on the Holy Scriptures and based on the

teaching of the fathers of the church and the canons of the

Church, which together constitute the church's mind as

the body of Christ, as the bride of Christ.

So when when our faithful are being informed by society around

them and what society says, whether it's social media,

whether it's in print media, whether it's on TV, as opposed

to what God is saying through the church, that's where the

problem actually arises. And so yes, the church speaks

about what human sexuality is and what it ought to be in the

life of the faithful. So obviously homosexuality is at

the heart of marriage, of Christian marriage.

But what is human sexuality? And I want to read what the

synodal statement says verbatim on this.

And this is in in chapter 3, second number three, human

sexuality is given by God our Creator as a special gift for

the uniting of man and woman inseparably in holy wedlock and

for the procreation of the human race, which is a sanctification

of the human person who is resolved to cooperate with God

in the sacred act of procreating in love.

So the blessings that the priests that God extends through

the the priesthood in the church to the couple that is being

wedded and which they will enjoy later during their married life

is expressed, is actualized, realized, if you will, in their

coming together in their union as husband and wife.

And therefore the proper context for human sexuality is within

marriage, within Christian marriage that is blessed by God.

Now, once we take human sexuality and objectivize it,

that's where it becomes sinful. Taking human sexuality out of

the context of marriage is where we have all of these troubles

that, and all of these issues that we see are around us and,

and people just being confused about what is sexuality.

Oftentimes they think it's expressing their sexuality the

way they feel they ought to express it.

While God is the author of life tells us how it should be

expressed because he has given that gift.

Now, therefore, the the document says that any other type of

sexual behaviour outside of the context of marriage, be it

premarital, extramarital, homosexual or any other sort,

there's a lot of, you know, different types Now coming

across the board. They constitute a sin against

the intent, the mind and the will of God as creator and

author of life, because obviously human sexuality is

tied to the continuance of human life.

Now Saint Paul says, and I think it's worth reading in one

Corinthians 6, he says, know you not that the unrighteous shall

not inherit the Kingdom of God, be not deceived, neither

fornicators nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor effeminate, nor

abusers of themselves with mankind, et cetera, will inherit

the Kingdom of Christ. Know you not that your bodies

are the members of Christ. And yes, in baptism we are

sanctified in Christ, body and soul.

We are wedded, the soul of the believers wedded to Christ in

baptism. So taking human sexuality

outside of the context of marriage is sinful.

Now having said that, why do we have so much sin in the area of

human sexuality? Well, first and foremost it's

due to the the fall of the human race.

It's post lapsarian. Meaning when God gave the

commandment to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, they

were still in a state of grace if you will, and God had

implanted in in the nature of man various what we call

appetites. Desires.

Desires but appetites. Appetites are natural

inclinations or natural mechanisms, meaning God has

placed them there in order to sustain and continue a life.

So whether it's food, drink, hunger, thirst, even the sexual

appetite is in order to to continue the human race.

Now, because all of that is actualized after the fall, all

of the human appetites are in disarray.

So they've been. They've been as they say.

Messed up, yes, as one would say.

So in that sense, when we exercise them, we exercise them

as human beings after the fall and we do not have the proper or

the the proper orientation, if you will, of the appetites and

all of the appetites when we cross the line of what God has

intended them to be or how there's to be exercised, that is

where sin occurs. So for example, let's take

hunger. God has given us the appetite of

hunger in order to continue our physical, corporeal, biological

life existence. If you do not eat, you'll die

generally as a rule. But if you overeat, if you

binge, if you gluttony, if you, you know, yes, now that's the

sin of gluttony. When that appetite is

disordered, then it becomes sinful.

And the same thing with sexuality as well.

When we do, when it's disordered, it becomes sinful.

And when it becomes sinful, that then from an appetite, it moves

on to being what we call a passion in, in classical Syriac,

we call it Khesheti Tanaya. And that term, that technical

term is actually mentioned in the liturgy of marriage.

One of the initial prayers at the beginning asks God to

protect the husband and wife from Heshiek Tanayev, from the

from the sinful passions. Why?

Because that appetite is now disordered.

And that's why we seek the grace of Christ.

That's why we have the sacraments in order to battle

and to correct the passions that are in US.

And so that's why human sexuality, when it's taken

outside of its proper context, intended by the author who is

God himself, then it becomes a passion.

It's a sinful passion. And then we're speaking about a

spiritual battle that with much prayer and fasting and

repentance and and the grace of God that comes to us through

Christ and his sacraments. We need that in order to battle

that passion. Your Holiness reading Genesis

Genesis 1 · chapter mention

chapter 1, when God is creating everything, the world and all

that we see in those this the Scripture specifically say that

God saw that everything was good and something that is good in

the eye of God is perfect does not need any alteration.

You don't need to change it. And after the fall, obviously

everything was corrupted. And so as Your Holiness was

alluding, that man is now living in that corruption and that's

why there is all this confusion. We need to go back to God's

goodness, I believe, and it will go back to that perfection as

well with God. Exactly.

Many of the, you know, the sexual sins that we hear about

today, and some of them are so perverse that I'm sure they

didn't think about them 100 years ago or so, is because man

is giving into his passions. We don't want to battle our

passions. We don't want to conquer our

passions through Christ. We're happy with our passions

and that's living in sin and in blindness so that one is not

able to come to repentance. And how beautiful is it your

holiness that God created men and women with a with a

compassion within them to to be attracted to one another, to you

know, a, a specific type of love brews in the heart of a man when

he sees a a female and they become in love, they fall in

love. And we go through our own

tradition of, you know, 3 or 4 gatherings just to ask for the

hand in marriage. And back home, the, the poor guy

would be beaten by the brothers and the cousins 1st and then

they would ask him to come and officially ask for the, the

girls to hand in marriage. But it's, it's such a beautiful

creation that God knew everything, took care of

everything. And there's no need for anyone

to come and correct. And unfortunately, that is what

the disarray that we are in today, the mess that we are in

today, man, he's trying to correct what God.

Yes. And and of course our faithful

across the board, Christians in general, really fall into these

sins because again, their conscience is not being formed

and informed by what God is saying through the Scriptures

and the teaching of the church. It's being informed and formed

by tabloids, by what the news is saying, by even maybe political

candidates or political persons are saying in order to get

votes. And so the conscience, once it's

not formed in godliness, will definitely succumb to sin.

Your Holiness in regards to another question from Australia

in regards to homosexuality, can Your Holiness officially declare

the stance of the Church on this?

So, but I'm quite ridiculously justified abomination.

I was Born This Way I had the tendency of being homosexual and

we know that is refuted medically.

There was AI recall reading in a report many years ago, there was

a research conducted for over 20 years and it was in Australia,

Your Holiness. And they concluded that no, the

the idea of being born because they tested hundreds of, of

twins who have the same DNA. And they concluded that no, it

is by choice because if, if twins are born twins, if one has

that same from then both. So that's refuted.

But this ridiculous justification that I was born, I

always had the tendency, where does the church stand for that?

Well, obviously from when we look at it from a biological

perspective, you mentioned the genetic justification.

There cannot be any justification to say that one is

born having that orientation because then that would be a

gene and you'd be able to identify that gene.

To my knowledge, there is no such gene that exists or has

been identified. There are genes for physical

maladies such as Down syndrome, such as other maladies.

Those are identifiable even before the child is born.

But to say that one sexual orientation is genetic and that

it's implanted in their genes, that's just simply nonsense.

And even medically or or physically has not been proven.

So that's from the medical perspective or from the from the

physical perspective. Our of course, our our concern

more is the spiritual one. And the Scriptures, both the Old

and the New Testament are very clear that the homosexuality and

its variant types are a grave, grave sin against God, against

what God has intended homosexuality to be, which we

discussed previously. And the major, what is the major

thing about that is that it is utterly close to the procreation

of children. A homosexual couple or that come

together in some type of union cannot procreate.

I mean, and the reason they cannot procreate is because

that's what God has willed it not to happen.

A man cannot bear a child and conceive a child and give birth

to a child. And two men marrying each other

or two women marrying each other and adopting a child and saying,

well, this is our child does not constitute procreation, plain

and simple. And there is unfortunately there

is a need to reiterate that. But the Scriptures is very are

are very clear on that. Saint Paul is very clear in his

epistles, even though today people don't want to hear that

and they make up excuses such as Saint Paul was his thinking was

antiquated or the social context has changed now?

No. So homosexuality, especially

lived homosexuality is very, very brave, sinfully against

God. Who is the author.

Now having said that, there are people who have that

inclinations or same sex attraction or the homosexual

attraction or they have that thinking, but they do not act on

it. Now such persons are definitely

the need of the grace of God. So they have an inner

inclination which generally comes from the way they are

brought up from the environment that they were brought up in,

and there are various attributes to that.

It could be the home setting. Was there a mother and a father

in the home? Was it only a mother in the

home? It could be the school setting.

Was this child mostly around girls or was he mostly around

boys? Or when there is some sort of

disorder in the, in the nurturing of the child growing

up in the various aspects of the environment around him, they

contribute to his or her orientation in, in terms of

homosexuality. Now, again, there are people

that do not act on it, but they have that inclination and they

engage in an internal struggle with themselves or with their

passions. And of course, the Church

doesn't bar such people from Holy Communion.

In fact, because they're engaged in such a struggle, they need

the grace of God in order to battle that evil inclination

that's there. For those who are now crying

out, well, Jesus said if you commit a sin in your mind, if

you lost on a woman in your mind you have already committed a

sin. Will they fall in the same

category? Homosexual inclination.

Well, heterosexuals that do that or homosexuals that do that, of

course that's that's sinful. I mean, Christ roots out sin

from the very heart of of man. But again, there are certain

people that are struggling with it.

They for some reason, maybe by the grace of God, do not want to

accept it, but they have the inclination because of certain

reasons of their growing up. And so the best thing that they

ought to do is to seek the grace of God.

Now those that are living in a homosexual union, which is not

marriage, a homosexual union, whether of two men or of two

women, cannot be equated with marriage.

The state law may allow that, or may call it so.

The Church. Does not the.

Church does not, which is the expression of God's law.

It is not a marriage, it is a sinful union, and the Church

cautions her children against such acts.

And the Church always provides the door of repentance to be

open for all those. After having said all of this,

of course, and some people might take this as a condemnation and

this a little statement is very clear that in making these

clarifications we are not condemning persons.

The ACT is being contempt. So homosexuality as an act is

definitely worthy of being condemned because the Scriptures

condemn it, God condemns it, but we are not condemning persons

and that we are inviting them to repentance.

And one of the sacraments of the Church of Hussiah solution in

the West, they call it reconciliation, is a great,

great spiritual remedy that ought to be used for people that

are living in such relationships that are illicit.

And in any scene. Any other sin of?

Course, you mentioned two women marrying and adopting a child

and claiming that that is their child.

They must remember that that child's origin was from a male

and a female use of it wasn't from a male and a male or a

female and a female referring to your Eucharist, Your Holiness,

which is my next question. Reframing from the Holy

Eucharist, are those who are actively engaged in a homosexual

or heterosexual or cohabitation relationship, that is union

outside of Holy Matrimony, are they permitted to be present?

Not only part taken Eucharist, are they to be permitted firstly

to be present during the Divine Liturgy?

That is the first half, the hallowing of the Word until the

dismissal of a catechumens, they are permitted to be there.

Is that correct? Before I answer that, I want to

go to the the point of cohabitation, which you

mentioned. And of course the document

speaks about it. So nowadays we see,

unfortunately, even among our own faithful, we see this

phenomena that younger couples are coming together and say,

well, you know, we want to try and see if our marriage will

work in the future. So we're going to live together,

cohabitation and they live together as if they were

married, but not having the blessings of marriage.

Obviously that's a sin. That's a grave sin because what

are the chances that that man and woman can live as brother

and sister together in one house or under one roof and.

Not be tempted. And not be tempted in order to

see if their their potential marriage in the future will work

out. That's not how you prepare for a

marriage. Prepare for a marriage first and

foremost by working on yourself, not seeing if you can live with

the next person. And for engaged couples or

betrothed couples who holiday, go on a holiday together and

they share the same hotel room under the the understanding that

well, we're we are engaged and we will be married one day.

That is also condemned. Well, if they're engaged, they

have to be even more careful because then again, they are

creating a misconception of what married life and the blessings

of married life and the blessings of a married sexual

union means. If they're doing that at at the

engagement state of their relationship, it's just as as

evil. But cohabitation is is addressed

by the document. And of course, unfortunately,

that's that's a phenomena we're seeing gradually increasing

among our younger couples that are coming together and they

need to be really careful of it because you know that leading

generally leading to fornication, basically.

And yes, those who are engaged in all these types of

relationships are not to take communion.

In fact, the priest should the Paris priest should guide them

against taking Holy Communion as long as they're living in such a

relationship. So that they do not sleep or

become I'll. Speaks about that in First

Corinthians. Now they can be present in the

celebration of the Holy Eucharist of the Qurban

Accreditia, and they ought to be present in a prayerful spirit.

So whether one is battling homosexuality or 1 is a

heterosexual who is engaged in many relationships and sexual

unions that are illicit, that are outside adultery as well

adultery and fornication, or one who's cohabitating, they need to

be there in a prayerful spirit begging for the grace of Christ

because without that they cannot battle their sin, whatever that

sin might be. Until the dismissal of the

catechumens or they are permitted to stay during the

whole. Service and that they're

baptized. They can.

They haven't been interdicted formally unless there's a grave

issue where they've been told not to be present.

But if they're there, the reason that they're coming is in order

to meet Christ. Now, because they're in such a

relationship, they cannot meet Christ fully.

But again, Christ doesn't shut the door in their face because

the Church, as Saint John Chrys System says, is a medical

hospital. It's a spiritual hospital

together for those who are living in sin.

So the Church will not shun them out in that way, but they must

refrain from taking Holy Communion until with the grace

of Christ, with much prayer and fasting and repentance, they

have been able to overcome that sin.

Your Holiness repentance to close off with is briefly what

is the process just say a prayer and you're forgiven or the

church has its own process Liturgy of the absolution for

grieve sins and mortal sins as the Bible refers to.

Can you please guide us through the the process to conclude

well? Since the early Church, there

were three what were called grave or major sins that

basically shunned one from participation in the Eucharist

and that was denying your Christian faith, murder and

adultery. Those three were the the grave

sins where one was considered not fully excommunicated, but

suspended from the communion of the Church.

So those are incumbent upon one who's engaged them in order to

come and to show to the priesthood of the church what

wounds that person has. Which is confession, what we're

talking? Which is confessing to God

through the priesthood that one has been spitten with either of

those sins. And then the priest ought to

give that penitent the right understanding and spiritual

guidance to still refrain from thinking Holy Community.

Because then he, that person needs to begin a life of

repentance, the path to repentance.

And that entails much prayer, much fasting, avoiding all of

the occasions that have brought him or her to that sin

originally. So it's a change of mind.

Repentance, of course, is a change of mind before it's a

change of, of life. And then gradually, as the

priest accompanies that person on that journey of repentance

and coming back to Christ, then the priest be able to say that

now you are able to take Holy Communion and he will give him

the, the, the service or the, the right of absolution,

absolving that person from whatever sin that they've been,

they've been enslaved to. And then they may fully

participate in the life of the Church by taking Holy Community.

And that is again through the confessing to the to the priest,

to the priesthood of the Church and and receiving the

disciplinary action and which ends brings that person to the

absolution, the liturgy of absolution.

Then being fully reconciled to. The record and one last point is

when the priest is absolving, the priest does not claim that

he is absolving, but that that person is absolved through

Christ. Yes, it's the Holy Spirit

working through the instrumentality of the priest.

Now we have the the onita, the antiphon, so the the medicine of

repentance our Lord has given to the learned physicians who are

the priests of the Church. Whoever is smitten, let him come

and show his wounds, show his deficiencies, show his ailments

to these physicians who are the priests, the disciples of the

physician who was Christ. And then they will prescribe the

they will the life giving medicine, the spiritual

medicines. Holy Christ, Your Holiness, once

again, thank you. Your last advice and your

spiritual, your spiritual paternal advice to those who are

struggling, maybe not engaged in in what we've spoken about but

are struggling and having a lot of issues.

What would your advice be to your children who are in that

predicament? To sum it up, I would use the

words of Saint Paul. Do not be conformed to the mind

or the way of the world. Many of our youngsters

especially, and well, many those who are older in age as well,

succumb to to the ills of, of sexual sin because they are far

away from Christ, because they're far from the Scriptures,

they're far from the church. And when one distances himself

from Christ in the church, then he becomes open in a plaything

for the devil, the prodigal son. Yes.

And so the church calls all of her children to repentance,

whether they, whether they are heterosexuals engaged in sin and

illicit sexual unions, whether they're homosexuals who are

engaged in illicit sins, because that is a perversion against

nature. Both of them entail sins coming

about because of fallen nature, but homosexuality is a

perversion against nature, the way that God, as the author of

life has intended it to be. And so that carries a greater

burden upon it. And of course, the church

accompanies her children, not by condemning them, but by

awakening their conscience. And that is the role of the

church. Often times that's not very

pleasant. We don't like it.

Why should the church be involved in our private life?

Well, because God is there in your private life.

The psalmist says, where can I escape from you?

If I go into the depths, you're there and you think God won't be

in, in the space that you're occupying, He has given you that

life. God says if you're in the depth,

I will send a scorpion and it will bite you safely.

Yeah. Well, God is everywhere, God

sees all things, so there is no way that we can hide from God.

To him, all our thoughts and actions are as open as a book.

And so therefore we need to come to God in repentance.

And that's what the Church, that's what this synodal

statement is doing. It's calling her children in

love and perfect love to repentance.

And and of course the repentance will bring us to holiness and we

all have to do that. But then again, of course, there

are certain sins which for lack of a better description, are as

if it 1 was slapping God in the face to equate Christian

marriage. That's blessed by the prayers of

the Church and and and sanctioned by God.

To equate that with a homosexual union is like slapping God in

the face. It's like saying you got it

wrong, we got it, we have it right.

And so there is a grave disparity there, and that's

where repentance is very, very much needed.

The Sinner is not condemned. The sin is condemned, yet the

Sinner can be rebuked and admonished by the church.

Some people the. Church, the church rebukes, and

the church has the authority to rebuke in.

Christ himself gave that authority to the church.

Condemnation is God's job. We don't condemn anyone of the

ultimate judgement. Condemnation belongs to God.

But rebuke is what the church does.

Just like a loving parent, loving father, and a loving

mother will rebuke their child when they see them doing wrong.

They won't encourage them and they're wrong.

And that's what the church is trying to do as well.

You Holiness, I'm sure there's many other questions, but we'd

be here for hours. And if we do receive any

questions from viewers and listeners, we'd be more than

happy to refer them to Asha Aprem who who drafted the the

statement or we will consult you when you're here on your next

visit, You Holiness. And please do promise us every

time you're here, you will bless us with the episode of podcasts.

And we're in the committee's Holiness now.

It'll be my joy to do so. I can't promise because the

future is never in our hands. Yes, you are.

But you can ask me when I'm here.

Yes, definitely our viewers viewers enjoy and appreciate

when Your Holiness is it's. Always my joy to be.

With you and we ask that you always keep this ministry and

every ministry within the church in your prayers.

And if your Holiness can now bless us with a prayer.

And once again, we thank you, Your Holiness, and thank you

for. God bless you all.

Thank you fashion, and it's my joy to have been known on this

podcast. And may the Lord bless all of

the the listeners and the viewers as well.

And I invoke the blessing of Almighty God the Father, the

Son, and the Holy Spirit upon each and every one of us.

God bless you all. Amen.

Thank you all. We hope you enjoyed this week's

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