Beyond the Letter Night 5 || ALFC Fresh Start

Welcome to the Lesse podcast. Here at LESSE we seek the loss, teach

the found, and send the disciples. We truly hope you're encouraged by this

week's message. Okay, So now as we kind of go into our Beyond

the Letter service to those that may be joining us for the first time,

what we do on the first of every month is a we have a podcast

called Beyond the Letter, and we use the first of the month to be

a place where people in our church, in the community, people that you

may know, whether they be Christian, religious, skeptics, open to faith,

agnostic, atheist, can either ask questions or you can ask questions on

their behalf and uh and we dialogue. So it may be about Christian culture,

culture, whatever it is, though it deals with our faith as Christians,

and so we want to be able to tackle real life questions head on

and be able to discuss those things. So we have a saying on Beyond

the Letter nights where we say you bring the questions, we'll bring the conversation.

We're not necessarily here to give you the answers. We can tell you

where our conviction is settled and where we have found in the scriptures. These

reasonings. But at the same time, you need to be able to wrestle

these things out and talk about these things on your own. And so we

want to be able to converse in those ways. And so you know,

tonight, as we jump in and have questions, we have a couple live,

we have some that are written. Ultimately, Yeah, you know you've

never done this, or at least I've never done it. But it's oftentimes

important for certain people to know the qualifications or the competency of people that are

giving answers so very quickly, like in like thirty seconds heron, would you

tell the people your educational background? Yeah, I graduated with a Bachelors of

Arts and Christian Education, and then I went to the seminary for three and

a half years to get my masses and associates in Christian ministry as well.

So about eight years of school and theology, languages, Bible, and I

spent four months in Israel, so I studied the land and abroad, so

I was able to experience call very well, very good Caleb. Four years

at a ZUSA Pacific University getting my BA in English Literature, and then I

have three years getting a Master's of Divinity at the Master's Seminary yep. And

then I did my AA program at Life Pacific University in Biblical Studies with a

minor and child psychology, and then I focused on doing my bachelor's in the

Master's university most difficult program. They only left four in a year, which

is their theology program an apologetics program. So it just so happened that I

had three more I did all my senior stuff, did all my degree,

I had three more general ed classes to do until Pastor Diego asked me to

come be the youth pastor here. So on my bachelor's program, I have

one English literature class, one science class, and one history class to finish

to get my bachelor's. And at this point it's a point of pride that

I haven't gone. I don't want to be thirty years old, you know,

I'm just kidding. No, it's just time and space is what it

was. But emphasis was philosophy and theology. So I've done yep, okay,

so yea far away okay. So we'll jump on in and if you

guys don't know, we'll see what happens tonight. Caleb is now our king

of virality on our Instagrams and stuff like that. Is comments is comments on

social media tend to go the most viral, with his latest one getting like

four million views, so and a lot of agreement, a lot of disagreement.

So but this one's all. This setting we do is very much different

than than that. So we'll jump in with the first question. I know

we have two. I believe we have two live, so we'll get off

to the first one. Just introduce yourself and then you could share your question

with us today. Hi, pastors, my name is Sidney Johnson. My

question is kind of two parts. The first one is when people give their

lives to Christ and are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, is there

salvation permanent or can they lose their salvation? Um? The second part of

that is, my grandma has dementia throughout her life. She's um given her

life to Christ and has you know, dibbledabbled in other religions and currently she

is has been like solicited by Mormons and has kind of given her life in

that way. UM, has her has her salvation kind of gone away?

Or? Um? Is she still you know, on her path to heaven

due to the you know situation, right? Now with her dementia. Yeah,

okay, it's a great question. Part of it theological, part of

it scriptural, and so we'll uh try to piece that that that answer together's

great, great question because there's two elements of it. There's the there's the

sala salvation aspect of can you lose it? And then there's the illness aspect

of how does illness impede or or act upon faith or intellect. So I

will give it first, I'll have I want to give the first of Caleb

to answer, and then I'll have hair and tap tap onto it. Well,

I can address the dementia one, because I um, I'll never forget

the president of the president of my seminary when I attended there, would would

use this illustration and always kind of blew my mind. There was a well

known Bible scholar that he sat under doctor Feinberg, and um he was a

Jewish New Testament scholar, I believe, but over Talbot Seminary, and he

spent his entire life as a Christian, as a Jewish convert to Christianity,

teaching the Bible for up until his eighty ninety years, however long he lived.

But in his last years he had gotten dementia and Alzheimer's. And what

happened as a result of that is he thought he was Jewish again, and

so he blatantly denied Christ because in his mind he was was a twenty year

old Jewish man who grew up as a Jew. And so like, just

raise your hand, how many of you think that that man, knowing his

story, God's gonna send him to hell? Yeah, so so if you

have more, if you have mercy for this man, how much more to

mercy does God have for a person like this? It's the heart, right,

God looks at the heart. And so that's that's kind of the best

you want you want to add to that age because he answered the illness aspect,

you want to tap onto the theological aspect, which obviously dabbles into not

to go too much into the clouds, the Calvinism, Armeniism debate and stuff

like that and all that. Can you lose your about salvation? Can't you

lose your salvation? So what are your And again like we don't we didn't

talk about this, so like we all may not see eye to eye on

particular subjects, so we we we we don't major on the minor things.

You know, at a at abundant living, we all we all believe in

a move of the spirit, activation of the spirit. We have a charismatic

Pentecostal tilt. But some of these souffic work things we may have minorum minor

um because we're all we're all Bible students, so we all have minor convictions.

So I'll let you go first, h and respond to it. I

think you mentioned it. I think you have to realize that there's there's two

school of thoughts, you know, Armnists and Calvinists. But I think just

going back to the Word of God and seeing what the Word of God says

in Romans ten nine and ten, if you confess with your mouth at Jesus

Lord, then you we will be saved. So if that person made that

decision and confessing their hearts, repentance, heart, then I think that they

are saved um. And I often look at the story of Sampson. Right,

Sampson, even in his sinfulness and even in his rebelliousness towards God and

committing that act of defiance and in the law of God and making that decision

to do what he wants, he still was saved. You know. So

I often refer to the story of Sampson, and I go back to the

Word of God. Does the Word say about that school that that thought,

and that thought is, well, yeah, if that person made a decision,

a genuine decision, it wasn't forced, there wasn't you know, it

wasn't like, you know, you have to make that decision. It was

a genuine conversion. And if that person made that genuine conversion, I don't

think that you could lose your salvation in that instance. All right, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Do you want to anything to uh, you know,

other than I think it's in Hebrews the sixth chapter. So I didn't

look it up, but Hebrews a sixth chapter. It gives like four or

five things and then it says, once you've done those things that it's impossible

for you to receive repentance again for your sins. And so it's like,

you know, you would have to have under the conviction of the Holy Spirit,

you would have had to be born again, you would have you would

have had to been used by God in some form or fashion the gifts of

the Spirit. You would have been exposed to. So the reality is,

it's it's very and if you take more of an armenious perspective, it's very,

very difficult to lose the salvation. But it is possible that you become

a reprobate, but you'd have to go through a series of experiencing God's mercy

and God's long suffering and God giving you an like Sodom and gomor on Um

time to repent, and you choose now not. You know, I once

went to church, I once was influenced in the church, I once ministered,

and now all of a sudden, through year after year after year,

I deny the Lord. I blasphemy the Lord. And you know, so

that's all I would add to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And

I think I think in those cases somewhere I'm I often find myself in the

middle. You know. The way the way I view it is, I

think there's a perspective in the Bible in which God speaks on his bath in

like an eternal sense, and then there's and then there's sets of scriptures that

speak on a human level. And just because there's a human level and then

there's an eternal level doesn't mean that they contradict each other at all. And

so there are scriptures that have somewhat of an implication that you can lose your

salvation. There are others like First John chapter two that gives us the implication

that if you lose it, it shows that you never had it, because

if you've had it, you would still be with us. First John chapter

two says, and since they are not with us, then they were never

of us. And if they were never of us, then let them go

and be however they're going to be. The way I view that is,

I say, okay, I think there's an element where God's involved, and

so therefore there's an element where God is speaking theologically in scriptures. And then

there's a natural element that says, as a human, they're going to walk

away from the Lord, and a natural element you may call that walking away

from their salvation, but that also may just be then a God's element that

also says that, well, then they may have never had it to begin

with. And just like the idea of God and the idea of church,

and so where you land in it, the reality is whether someone has can

lose their salvation or they can't lose their salvation. If they can't lose it

and they're in sin, then they have to go to God in grace and

repentance. If they have lost their salvation, then they need to go to

God with grace and repentance. So the actions to both to me are exactly

the same. You know, I'm gonna want someone who has walked away from

the faith or was never part of it to begin with whatever label you want

to put on that, I still want them to honor God, come to

love Christ, come to repent of their sins, and turn to the Lord.

Whether you want to say return to the Lord, turn to the Lord,

I don't really, I don't really, I don't really major in the

minors in that sense. For me, to me, I would approach a

person in a very similar way given that categorical sense, And so over the

years I have found myself on both sides. You can't lose it, you

can't lose it, and I think every day in our life is a continued

study on what that is. Right now, I lean more towards First John

Chapter two. Pastor Diego may lean more towards Hebrews. But if we were

walking someone in that case, we would actually position both of those passages to

them. In that sense, if we were talking someone through, So that's

an element of it as well. So we'll go to the second question so

we don't hang too much longer in each question. And so go ahead.

I know who that is, but I'll give you a chance to introduce yourself.

Go ahead. The question that I have for today is, if Jesus

is God, then why does Jesus pray to God? If Jesus is God,

why does Jesus pray to God? Yeah, that's such a great question.

A lot of people are asking that, and I can't seen a lot

on social media, but you have the philosophical answer, and you have the

biblical answer. The philosophical answer, you can say all of existence is made

up of threes in a sense. You have the atom, which we're all

made up of proton neutron electron. You have the family unit mother, father,

mother and child. And so in that sense, the father would represent

the lover of the mother, who is the beloved, who would be Jesus

who And the byproduct of that of that love is that outpouring is the Holy

Spirit. The eternal outpouring of that love between the father and the son is

the Holy Spirit. So that's kind of a philosophic I also saw this sometimes

it's helpful. I just saw this in the office. I thought, wow,

that's kind of a good illustration for the Trinity too. You have this

thing, which is a pattern, and you have three elements to this.

You have the foundation, which would be the Father. You have the actual

image itself which would represent Jesus, the thread the image, and what's holding

that together is this third element, the Holy Spirit. So I don't know,

I just saw that and I thought that was kind of cool. But

you cannot be God cannot be a god of love if there's not a beloved.

And so if if if there's not a trinity three personalities, three persons

in one essence is what we mean by trinity, three persons and one essence

eternally coexisting with each other. God cannot be loved if there's not a beloved.

So if Jesus isn't coeternal with the Father, then Jesus can only God's

love has a starting point, namely when he creates something, because you need

something to love in order to be called a God of love. So I'm

going to give you the best answer. Now bear with me. This is

the best answer for the Trinity apart from I need my God at the end

of the day to be a God that I can't comprehend. And that's a

lot of the problem with these accusations against the Trinity. They're trying to figure

God out in our puny minds, and I need my God to be a

God that I can't figure out. So that's why I love the Trinity.

But let me give you the best, the best answer, and bear with

me for a few more minutes. Okay. So I learned this in a

book that I read in seminary, and I never forgot it. And you

can teach people the Trinity by this acronym. Hopefully you'll never forget it.

Hands. So you got a hand hands, that's the acronym. So each

letter represents a characteristic of God that Jesus possesses, which is where we get

the doctrine that Jesus is coeternal with the Father, the doctrine of the Trinity.

The H stands for honor. Jesus receives all of the honors that God

the Father alone receives in the Bible. So Jesus is worshiped throughout the Bible.

Matthew four nine through ten. Jesus's worship. Jesus accepts worship in Matthew

fourteen thirty three, Hebrews one six Revelations one seventeen. Okay, So for

all you Bible lovers who accuse me how don't use the Bible. I'm giving

you some Bible right now, So write it down if you need to write

this down. But so honors A man would never especially a man of the

Bible Moses, David would never dare receive the honors due to God alone.

So he receives the honors. He receives the attributes of God. All of

the attributes of God are attributed to Jesus. Jesus's eternal John one one through

three, eight fifty eight. Jesus is all powerful or omnipotent Matthew twenty eight

eighteen. Jesus is omniscient or all knowing John twenty one seventeen. Jesus is

all loving Romans eight thirty five through thirty nine. So Jesus number two hands.

Jesus has all of the attributes of God. The father David didn't have

those attributes. Moses didn't have those attributes. Mohammed didn't have those attributes.

So names is the third one. Names Jesus possesses the names of God.

And my dad does this magnificently. When you give him a letter in the

alphabet, and he'll be able to tell you random names that Jesus is called

that only God the Father is called. So Jesus has the name that is

above every name Philippians two nine through eleven, Jesus is called God. In

John twenty twenty eight, Jesus is called Lord, and Acts one twenty four

he's called King of Kings. In Revelations nineteen sixteen, he is savior.

In Luke two eleven, he is the first and the last. In Revelation

one seventh through eight, now two more deeds. Jesus does all of the

deeds of God the Father, and so he is the creator. In John

one three he is the sustainer of all things, and Hebrews one two through

three he is sovereign over the forces of nature. In Matthew eight twenty three

through twenty seven, he is the one who forgives sins. That's a huge

one that only God the Father possesses Matthew nine one through eight, and he

gives life in John one four and five twenty one, and finally Jesus is

seated with the Father. He has the same seat as God the Father.

If you visited the Queen of England, imagine you sitting in her without somebody

giving you permission. What would that signify you possess the same authority as the

Queen of England. You would never sit in her seat. Jesus sits on

the throne of God Revelation three twenty one. He rules over all things Revelation

five thirteen. And he claims to be equal to God in John ten twenty

seven through thirty three. And he is the judge of all history, in

which every need will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

This is why the doctrine of Islam and the doctrine of Muhammad is totally false,

because a mere prophet could never receive these sorts of attributes. So hands,

remember right said, raise your hand. We're going to remember this and

we'll never forget it. Next time you encounter a Muslim or somebody who has

a hard time with this, hands honors, attributes, names, deeds,

and seat. Thank you Jesus. Give them a roundhimal I don't I don't

think anyone else seeds to say anything. Hey, you brought your a game

today. You know we just took a seminary. I think you took your

vibe. I mean, waiting nine months for that, that that response to

come out from. You know that fifty thousand dollars that we paid for seminaries,

paying paid off that. Yeah, you wish it was only fifty thousand

dollars, right, Okay, let's go to the UH. I think first

UH, first written one, So let's go ahead. I think we'll have

it up on the screen and we'll read it out loud. Why does the

church uh not discuss fornication and more in depth? The reality is unmarried Christians

are having sex, Yet the church needs to go in more detail about what

to do when these urges rise against the flesh and what response responses should look

like even when the act takes place. What should you do when you are

feeling horning? S O s okay, come to church? Well, I

guess the church isn't doing it though, so you can't say that, right,

Uh, do you have something you want to respond first? On that

one? I mean I know you kind of responded to it. I think

it's probably a younger question Okay, I'll probably I'll probably be mean and honre

and say yeah, yeah, yeah, you've never heard me preach, You've

never got yeah, I um yes, yeah, So go ahead. Well,

there's two elements to the question. Number one, there's the question,

and then there's the accusation. And we say this often all the time and

different different things. It's not it's not what you say how you say it.

So you could tell them this question. There's two elements to it.

There's an accusation and then there's a question. The accusation is the church doesn't

do it. Um. I don't know if they mean abundant living doesn't do

it. I don't know if they mean the global church. Most of the

time in the future, I'll tell you, if you're ever representing speaking of

the church as a whole in terms of the global church, you could just

simply say in conversation, the capital C Church. Then most people will know

that you're not making an addendum towards maybe the place you fellowship. You're maybe

just making a broader assumption of the church as a whole. Or if you

say the church and you write that in a lower case, see the assumption

is is probably wherever you're fellowshipping, and so, uh, that is probably

the one that I have the most confusion on because, um, I personally

know and I mean people come to abundant here. I mean, you know,

I believe that at abundant living, you know, uh, sin and

sexual acts and fornication is is talked about a lot, whether it be a

pornography, whether it be an addiction sexually, whether it be sex out of

marriage. I mean, just I mean that's your wheelhouse. So a little

confused on the accusation when the Internet of pogray, Yeah, yeah, we

always make fun of that because the Internet of a pornography insinuates that they pull

out a separate computer for that, the Internet of it as if there's like

you type in Google Internet of pornography, but you can do it do it

on every device, so it's not a specific device. So we always make

fun of him for that. But um, that's at home stuff, you

know. But regardless, I would say I would say number one part of

them element would be number one. I struggle with that accusation. Maybe you

mean the church as a whole, and maybe I haven't done a case study

enough to see churches as a whole and how they talk about fornication. I

mean, also you have to also remember the element of Scripture makes it clear

that you are supposed to feed yourself. So if you are looking to I

don't know how often or frequent a person like asking this question comes to church,

but if you come once a week or once a month, then yeah,

you're gonna be malnourished and it's gonna be hard to fight the good fight

of faith. I mean, if you're not putting on the full armor of

God and you're just allowing Sunday for forty five minutes to be your armor,

then I'll tell you this, there's there's nothing we can say or do that's

going to equip you for the fight of your flesh that can only be fought

Monday through Saturday. And you know, First Corinthians, chapter nine, verse

twenty one, Paul says, I beat my flesh to submission. So it

is your job to beat your flesh to submission. It is your job to

be in the scriptures. And so if you make and that statement could be

absolutely fine if it's true, yes, and you know, but at the

same time, uh, if the individual who may be asking that question,

if you have never read your New Testament before, and you are asking for

help to fight your flesh, to fight horniness, to fight any of those

things. Read your word, read your Bible, go to prayer. The

Lord says that if you commit yourself to the scriptures, the Paul tells Timothy,

you study yourself to find yourself approved. You do the word of what

it takes to fight the good fight of faith. You got to put on

this armor every single day. Now does the church come? The main Church's

job is to help you to understand your word more clearly. That is the

job of a Sunday gathering. It's for us to worship, and it's for

you to understand your Bible more clearly. The fight is in your hands.

That is one hundred percent. That's how you do community. That's how you

live in community. That's how you live in accountability. Acts Chapter two and

chapter three says the church gathered committed themselves to scripture, reading, fellowship and

prayer. So first I'm going to ask you how often do you gather,

how often do you commit to scripture and reading? And how often do you

commit into a community of other believers. If you do not have a clear

answer for that system in your life. Then there is nothing the Church can

do to come and supplement a bad diet. If you have the bad diet,

then you are malnourished. Doesn't mean the body of Christ is malnourished.

The beauty about the beauty about the Reformation movement is it made the Bible accessible

to all people and not just the Catholic priests. So we live in an

age where everyone can carry their sword with them, everybody can wield their sword

with them, and so if you're looking for more practicalities, well the reality

is that would then just be using wisdom at that point. You know,

when you feel like you're flesh rising up. Pastor said it. You go

to church, you feel like you're flesh rising up. Call a friend when

you feel like you're flesh rising up. If you're on the Internet of pornography,

there are apps today that you can add friends that immediately flag your friends

the moment you go on a porn site. So there are systems and utilities

out there that will help you fight. Tell your friends, Hey, if

you ever see me gawking at a girl, hey, put me in check

first. Corinthians Paul says, if you desire to have sex. Go bit

married. So if you're asking this question and you're single, what's the response

to it? Paul says, go get married, Go get a wife,

Go get a husband. That's the resolve because God blesses marriage, God blesses

union. So if your horny, go get married. Well what happens if

my spouse won't have sex with me when I'm married, Go get counseling?

What happens if we got to You just follow the breadcrumbs that the word and

that I believe churches talk about every single week to help you resolve. And

so I hope that helps you a little bit. And I like that little

sasas whoever asked that at the front, you know, with that, with

the with the thing. I mean, I like questions like that. This.

I would love when people ask him in person because I want I wanna

be able to have a little conversation, you know what I'm saying, Uh,

you want to see the horny person see thes And I don't disagree.

I mean, I've been in those situations before too. I'm not I'm not

saying that it's impossible. I'm saying that that that it is possible. And

it's written in the word you know, so let's go to the next one.

It's some great ones. Um all right. Uh. I wanted to

ask what was the sole purpose of giving a gift to first time visitors,

because I've seen a video talking about giving a gift to a first time visitor

that it gives off as a self absorbed gift, and the message of church

is sending to a new visitor is that, hey, we care more about

what you can give to this church than we care to what this church can

give you. So as we can tell, people are getting comfortable with asking

questions, you know. So that's one positive thing. Six months into doing

this, you know, people are getting cozy, which is great. By

the way, if your first time here, when you leave, we'll have

a gift for you at every exit to show you how much we love you

and we appreciate you. Dad, why don't you do this because you've been

giving the gift to first time visitors for over twenty years. So I'll let

you again. It's very difficult because it's like your question, I don't know

where they're coming from. So you're you're gonna watch a video and judge us

by a video. I don't I can't. I don't know what that church

believes. I don't know how that the church's mission, mission philosophy is.

I don't know. So it's you know, it's like you had, like

having a bad marriage, and now you're gonna put that bad marriage on your

new spouse and assume that new spouse carries the characteristic of the old spouse.

So I can only tell you why we do it and what we do it

for. Um. So, I mean the reality is is again we have

we've been We've given coffee mugs for years to people and it's amazing how many

people put that coffee mug on their desk or in their family that either is

a witnessing tool or brings them to a point of conviction and remembrance of who

Christ is in their life. It's it's material, it's not an idol.

It's it's not something that's that's worshiped. I mean, if if you don't

like get, then you know what, stop having a birthday anniversary, don't

go to Costco and take anything. Just go across the board. And sometimes

Christians can be so legalistic when they don't practice that in their private life.

Across the board. They just think they want to judge the church as as

as it being wrong. And again I this Sunday told you I stood out

there because you did a masterful job preaching. I wanted to be out there

to greet people Sunday Sunday I preached. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you

did preach very well. Oh thank you so much. So I created people

in the first first service where they came in and like fifty percent of people

don't say hello to you, they don't say good morning to you. They

just walked straight on there, walked straight on in. And the first response

is to be offended by that, or the second response, I'm just grateful

they came to church. And I don't know what battles they're facing in and

life and if a welcome gift is going to allow them to let down their

guard and be open to this church and say, you know what, for

an hour and a half, we cared, We cared that you came here.

Is our little gift to give to you. Then, I don't think

there's any offensive thing that's wrong or wrong with that. We we gave you

the gift of watching your child for you know, an hour and a half,

we gave you the gift of toilet paper. So when you go to

the bathroom, do not use our toilet paper because that's a gift and you

don't receive gifts. And so you could go across the board as to where

you're gonna take this. It's it's it's the motive behind it, and the

motive behind it is just to say we love you and we care, and

that's all it is. It's a cup of cold water, that's all it

is to somebody who's you know, we're you're thirsty. One yeah, and

I look and then I see like two other elements. Is number one like

if it becomes your home church. There's a lot of people I know who

still have their gift from fifteen years ago, ten years ago. Like would

there be anyone here that still has their mug from fifteen years or ten years

or five years ago? Yeah, tons of hands, Right, you still

have it. It's in the cupboard you got. You know, we've had

you know, we've had nine logo alliterations in the past fifteen years. So

you have one of the ten logos of ALEFC that we've done in the past

fifteen years. And either way, you look at it with a fondness to

say, I remember in two thousand and six when I came to a bundant

when you look at them mug you say, I remember when I came in

twenty fourteen, when I remember where my life was at, I remember where

my marriage was at, I remember where my you know what was, where

my body was at all these things. Immediately. What happens is is if

you look at something that was gifted to you, hopefully if it becomes your

home church, you will look at it with fondness, and then others who

don't, they may just throw it away. You know that's okay too.

And then there's the other element is you know, often when I'm outside,

people will ask me really, you know, normal questions like do you guys

have children's ministry? What are your service times? They may made it to

nine, but they want to know what are the other services? Do you

have a service on Wednesday? Well, when you get a gift, you

also get all that information, the basic questions. So part of us saying

hey, we have a gift for you is also so you don't feel confused

when you're walking around this church, to say, what what's happening here?

Well, when you go get the gift. It has everything in there and

it lets you make a decision on whether you want to make this your home

church. We gotta not forget that the purpose of the church is for the

gathering of the Saints. We are evangelical church, so part of us being

an evangelical church means that we are a welcome church for unbelievers. And so

that's why we at the end of every service given altar call, we preach

the Gospel. So we're a church where believers and unbelievers can come in the

same roof. But the actual ecclesia the church is for believers. So hopefully

as everyone in the church is out sharing their faith with other people, Lord

Willing, they should actually become believers through your evangelism in your neighborhood before they

come to the church. Now, when they come to the church, all

they're making a decision on whether this is going to be the right church for

me, and so they want to know more information and we want to help

them get to that. But other than that, it necessarily and it can

happen. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're saying yourself, oh,

if I just get my friend to church, maybe they'll believe. Well,

now, if you read the scriptures, they're actually supposed to come in

contact with you and then believe, and then you invite them to church.

That is the process that is naturally found in the scriptures. And so we

understand in modern day society people are coming and gathering, so there are different

elements. So for a first time visitor, what we're saying is is you

are clearly coming here because you're interested in some aspect of the church. Not

only do we want to bless you with a gift, but that could be

something that you remember for a long time, but also it's something that can

get you that and it answers the information that you need. And then at

the end of the day, I know one at the end is like you

know, the statement is, hey, we care more about what you can

give to this church than we care about what this church can give to you.

I mean, the reality is is we're all supposed to give something to

the church. That's that's the Bible read acts. The Spirit gives us all

gifts and it's meant to be implemented in the local church. So every person

who should be stepping into church should be asking themselves how can I give myself

and my gifts to my local church. So that is an approach, like,

that's not a critical thing to say, Oh, that church, they

want people to get involved, they want people to use their spiritual gifts.

Well, yeah, we're not trying to hide that. I mean, that's

in the Bible. We want people to be engaged in their local church.

We want prayer warriors praying. We don't want just pastors praying. We want

we want elders but believing with other people. We want people in the community

to be pastoring each other in small groups and all those things which is coined

ay a community like, we want those things happening. So yeah, all

unabashfully say, if you come to church, we want to take you through

a process where you can use your spiritual gifts in the church. Yeah,

we want to do that. That's not I don't think that's a that's a

that's a bad thing to kind of kind of admit, you know, type

of thing. So, but it's fair. There's a lot of stuff out

there today on TikTok and YouTube that is a putting a critical eye on churches,

which I you know, you know, churches stretch and they grow and

you should be asking and evaluating. I don't. I don't take anything's wrong

with that. There could be a day where we where we don't offer a

gift because of some reason happening in culture or something like that. I mean,

that's just that's just natural. Nothing in the Bible tells you not to

give a gift or to give a gift. Nothing in the Book of Acts

as if you have a first time gifts, give them a coffee mug.

But it also doesn't say you can't give them a coffee mug to welcome them.

It does also say if you welcome someone in your home, you should

feed them and give them water and be to clothe them and stuff like that.

And our church does many of those things. So we're looking to be

the hands and feet of Jesus in those ways. Uh, let's go to

the next one. You clap. I was, okay, how do you

handle someone who wants to push a religion onto you? I love them and

believe they have a pure heart. Just don't want them to judge. Don't

want don't just don't want to judge because it's something I don't believe in.

Also, don't know how to go about reaching out about what I believe and

how God has transformed my life drastically from one day to another. Thank you,

great question. Uh ah, why don't you go ahead and give us

a response on that. Yeah, I took it as someone who maybe has

a family member that maybe you know that some of them probably in that context.

But um, I think first and foremost, when you look at the

world that you that you're in, everyone believes in their truth right, and

their truth is very opinionated. Their truth is very subjected to that, and

so you gotta just come from a place of like receiving that but in love.

But also the Christian mindset is that as you receive it in love,

you got to know what you believe in right, and as a Christian my

faith, you know, as I believe in God, as I make that

transition to that conversion to say I'm gonna follow God. Um, it's never

it's never coerced, it's never thrown to you. It's it's it's a genuine

conversion that you make. And so when you live that out, I think

it's twofold you you live it out through your lifestyle, but you live it

also in proclamation to that. So the way I receive that question is they're

receiving some form of evangelism, but they're also looking to see what that what

that looks like in their life. And so practically, practically speaking, I

think that you can do that in that form of as I'm living my lifestyle

and reflection of who God is, as I make my my faith statement,

and as as you see it on Instagram and Facebook and you know, Twitter

and all that, I also got to proclaim the word of God in a

way that that it's not just it's just lifestyle, if that makes sense.

You know, faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God,

and so there's some there has to be some form of communicating and using words

in that regard. So as I'm living my life through that, I'm also

proclaiming the Word of God in that. Yeah, great, anything else,

well, I would just say, you know, one of the purposes of

our podcast is to model what those conversations should look like. You know,

how if you see me and how I'm disagreeing or you see us disagreeing with

each other on the podcast over differing topics, um and how we're still able

to have a meaningful dialogue. We ask questions of each other to glean further

insight into each other's perspective, and we then offer our own perspective, and

we go back and forth. We listen, we learn from the other person,

and then but then again we're we also give our own perspective and our

own opinion. And so um, because a lot of times, especially in

our day and age, it's just so uh, just so heated culturally if

it's politics, left right, Republican, Democrat, um, religions and all

this stuff is just so heated. And um, I think it's just so

important to uh, if this person is coming to you and they're wanting to

share with you what they believe, then hey, let's go to coffee.

Let's let's chop it up, because I want to understand why you believe what

you believe. And then and and that starts with being a listener. Be

quick, quick to hear, solo to slow to speak. So with somebody,

especially of a different of a religion outside of Christ, um that you

want to win over to Christ and to the truth. Uh, sit down

with them, listen to them more than you you talk, ask them questions,

help them to realize that you really do care about them and what they

believe in. And then after you've done that, there will be now open

for you to share the truth to them. And at the end of the

day, if you just shake hands, say this is a good time.

I'm I'm glad. I know more about you. You know more about me.

God bless you. We're still friends. Maybe maybe not, but at

least you were able to have that conversation without it being becoming toxic, or

without it being hateful, or without anybody raising voices, you know, or

anything like that. Yeah, well, I think it's what you said.

The more that you study to show yourself approved, the more that you know

the Bible, the more confident you're going to be. If not, you're

not going to be confident, and it's probably going to end in an argument

or you're going to feel that they're influencing you more because all you have is

an experience. And that's why the more you know your Bible, then you

can defend what you believe. But if you don't know your Bible, you're

always gonna feel left out. Number two is what you said, get in

a small group where other people can disciple you and help you through. What

do you what have you done before. How do you handle this? What

is your response? And so now you're growing rapidly through the wisdom of somebody

else. And at the end of the day, when I first got saved,

I could not defend the faith. So I didn't put myself in a

predicament to argue. I avoided the knock on the door if it was a

knock on the door, because all I could tell them is I love Jesus

and if you don't, you're going to Hell. And I'd walk away.

But that wasn't the greatest way to do it. So for a season I

avoided it and just you know, didn't have the conversation until I began to

grow in my faith, whether that was through the Bible, accountability, written

material, there's a ton of it, you know, apologetics and how to

defend the faith. Then I felt confident to do that competent. So yeah,

and I think one of the things I always pray for is God,

would you give me wisdom and win some responses to people who have a critical

eye towards you. And the way that I see that is, you know,

there was a TikTok video I saw one time of a Christian and a

Muslim debating, and the Muslim makes a statement and he says, our religions

despise each other, we hate each other. And you know, everyone in

his quarters like, yeah, exactly exactly. And the Christian responds and says,

that's where we're different. My religion doesn't despise you. My religion doesn't

hate you. I love you, I will always be here for you.

I will never chastise you, I'll never cut you off. And he said,

I think that might be the difference between us and you. You hate

me and I love you, And so what I want you to know is

I love you, and I forgive you, and Christ loves you, and

Christ forgives you. If I don't agree with you, if you're immediately called

to hate me, then you can't call Allah a god of love, because

they call him love too. And so he says, a god of love

would not cause you, as his creation, to despise and hate others,

and so what we're not called to And immediately you can tell he changed that

Christian changed the shift of that conversation to a somber gospel came and went from

war to immediately that guy throws in love and grace and well, wait,

you think I hate man, I don't hate you. I man I'd be

the first one to help you move out your house. I'll be the first

one to help you pray for you. I'll be the man. I don't

That's not my conviction of the word. If that comes off like hey,

that that by no means that's what it is. So it's in those winsome

responses you can begin to win people over. And that's always my prayers,

like, God, just give me a winsome response to that person that I

can show them God's grace and God's love and also a call for repentance to

allow Christ. So that's where abertcourge. Wherever you're at in your faith journey,

the spirit can always give you a word of encouragement. All right,

let's do three more. Let's do some fast responses. Let's do some quick

response for the next five minutes. So first one, uh, let's what

is the major differencing differences between Christians and Catholics. Um, you used to

be a Catholic? Dad? You want to you want to take that away?

Ultra ultra boy, Yeah, yeah, used to drench the communion wine,

drank the wine and be high going back to class. Wow, that's

not very Catholic. True story. Well, you know, there's time,

I mean lay it theologically out. There's vast differences in it. Again,

Uh, it would take all three hours to describe to you the difference between

a priest and a pope uh so called um, you know, the leaders

of the church and living a sinless life, and the pope is the hierarchy

who determines. Uh, he's the voice of God. Uh, he's sinless.

The pope is sinless and all men have fallen short of the glory of

God. So there there's that relationship. You have to go to the priest,

um uh to appeal to God or to be resolved of your sin.

Well, the Bible he says that that, you know, Jesus is our

high priests, and we can confess our sins to him. He's faithful and

just. Um. They believe that Mary was a virgin. She's you know,

she was yeah, yeah, exactly. She was a virgin until the

day. I'm sorry, she was virgin when she bore Jesus. But then

she's been a virgin and never had any other children. But the Bible said

that there were five more you know, or yeah fo yeah, siblings of

Jesus um so um, you know. And then the prayers to the saints.

You're not pray you don't have you pray to Jesus, you know you

can, but you pray to you know, Saint this and Saint this and

Saint this that represents something, uh, you know. So there's a Then

the Eucharist or communion. You know, we take it every we took it

this past Sunday. But they believe that bread is actually Jesus. They believe

that's actually and his blood, you know. So there's this, and then

you go into the history of this religion that's been around two thousand years and

the paganism that exists with all their symbolisms and the dark ages of of um

rapes and murders and uh, you know, nobody truly being celibate and although

but at the same time, can Catholics be saved. Absolutely, I was

a Catholic who was saved, but I but the difference is is they they

believe in religion, and you have to go to them and say, do

you believe that Jesus died for your sins? And make sure because they've grown

up in religion again, baptism. They believe in baptism being done as a

baby, so there's no accountability. I confess Jesus and then I get baptized.

They believe that that baptism will save that baby, but that baby has

not had a chance to accept Jesus. I could go on and on and

on and on about the vast difference, but you know what the reality is,

as you can be a Catholic and you can be born, you can

be born again, but there's so many ritualisms, so many legalistic things that

you would have to fend through and to deal with and come up with the

fact to say, I believe in Jesus, I'm a born again Catholic,

but I do not practice this, this and that and but that's up to

somebody to decide. So and then the Bible. But their Bible are different

than ours. So they have what seven more books or something that acripi McBee,

Yeah, that have not been canonized. So they have seven different books

that are that are not added. So they have six seventy three um the

Intertestamental period in Old Testament. Yeah, um, I'll just it just I'll

just um. The clearest thing for me, the differences in in when the

Protestant Reformation occurred in the sixteenth century, Um via Martin Luther and others.

Um, which we are the product of because from that came you know,

all of the branches of Protestantism denominations. That's how America was founded as a

result of the Reformation. So UM. The two the two main distinctions is

the Catholic Church believes that the Church's authority is on the same level as scriptural

authority. And so the reformers had a slogan sola scriptura, which means scripture

or alone, and that was a statement that that went against the Catholic doctrine

that the Church's authority is equal with the Bibles. And so that's how you're

able to get bishops and popes and counsels that are on the same level of

authority as the scriptures. And so the second thing is is Protestant denominations hold

to faith alone, sola fee day faith alone in order, in other words,

you gain access to heaven through faith in Jesus Christ alone, apart from

works, whereas Catholic doctrine is faith and works get you to heaven and are

essential. They go hand in at Faith and works, and so that's but

once again I like to you know this, the Protestant Reformation happened in the

sixteenth century fifteen hundreds, So you got to ask the question. From the

year one hundred to the year fifteen hundred, there were there are basically two

churches in existence in the world, the Eastern Orthodox Church, which split in

the fifth century from the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church which split.

So for fifteen hundred years, or at least from August the year three hundred,

when scripture was a word canonized until the fifteen hundreds, there was only

two churches that the Holy Spirit moved through visible churches in the world, the

Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. And so I'm not as quick

to discredit the Catholic Church, even though I'm not a Catholic. I do

see them as brothers and sisters, because I cannot accept the fact that the

Holy Spirit was dormant for fifteen hundred years and then all of a sudden,

the Holy Spirit woke up from his sleep when Martin Luther nailed the ninety five

thesis, and you know, we're now the pipe product. So I don't

want to discredit the Holy Spirit, because I do believe that the Spirit did

amazing things in advancing the Kingdom of Christ in the world and advancing the Gospel.

A lot of that was through the Roman Catholic Church. Yeah, nice,

Okay, So we had about three questions more. We'll roll them over

into into next months Beyond the Letter on July fifth and so um um,

we'll gather together on July fifth for another Beyond the Letter night. We had

about three more. We had someone that wanted to ask us a question us

kind of respond with what's going on around the Chosen series, And some of

you guys may or may not know that, but we're filming a podcast tomorrow,

so I think we'll we'll dress it on there talk about a little bit

on there. So Sunday's episode we'll have a little short chat about it and

then jump into whatever else we're going to talk about. So, because it

is the controversy about the Chosen, the short aspect is the controversy is um

staff and crew are a part of the LGBTQ community and Chosen released a trailer

behind the scenes and all the employees on like their work gear. We're wearing

gay Pride stuff had gay pride flags hanging out, and Christians are calling chosen

series to have a bit of a higher standard on who's working on set,

but other people are saying, well, you know, it's a it's a

TV show where they're hiring secular people. So there's a debate on at what

point do you draw the line? At what point you know do you have

are you principal lad? At what point aren't you aren't you know? Are

you so them being just a regular show that's out there that that's the controversy

that people are discussing. So we'll talk about it tomorrow on the podcast and

it'll be out on Sunday, so you could kind of hear our perspectives of

it. Other than that, I'll have Pastor diego Um close us out in

prayer and make an invitation of faith, and then we'll all these thank you

guys, thank you so much for being here and enjoined the conversation and hopefully

hopefully we didn't offend anybody in any form or fashion. I think it's,

uh, it's good to do this. It's it's good to discuss these kinds,

you know, and we gain knowledge and we we gain wisdom through it.

But the Bible is clear. As we talked about in Romans three,

it says, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

All of us are sinners. You have good you have good sinners,

but they're sinners. You have moral sinners, but they're sinners. You have

righteous sinners, but they're sinners. You have veteran sinners, but they're still

sinners. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There's

not a human being alive that does not have a remorse in their life,

does not have a regret in their life, does not have a shame in

their life. All of that could be depictive of what a sin is,

but ultimately sin as rejection of Jesus Christ as my Lord and my Savior and

the belief that he came to this earth to die in the cross. We've

all sinned, all humanity, the Bible says in Roman six twenty three.

The wages of that sin is death. Sin requires judgment, Sin requires a

punishment. Sin requires a consequence. There's nowhere that you and I can do

wrong without paying a consequence for it. You're not going to get I mean,

you could try to get away with it. But the reality is,

when you're caught, there's a consequence. People get fired, people get a

divorce, people go through bankruptcy, people lose stuff. So it is when

it comes to sin. You can sin as much as you want for ninety

years of your life, but there comes a day of judgment when you die,

and the wages of that sin is a spiritual death, which is called

hell. But then John says, but for God's so loved this world,

he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed them would not perish. And

God never wanted you to have to suffer for the sins in your life and

have to go to a place called hell. And so Jesus stepped out of

eternity, put on this frail flesh, and on the cross. All the

sins you and I have ever committed he took upon himself, and the wrath

of God judged that sin at that moment, the wrath of God. That's

why God could not look. He turned his back, and Jesus cried out,

my God, my God, why has hell forsaken me? He had

never known what it was to be separated. But then, like Pastor Heron

said, but if thou shalt now confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,

and believe in thy heart that God has raised him from the dead. Then

everything you've ever committed is wiped away. As far as the east is from

the west. You are now forgiven and your child of God, and your

destiny will end not in judgment or hell, but in a place called Heaven

and forgiveness. So today the Gospel has been presented to you through for Him

today and then through this altar call today. And if you're ready to say,

you know what, I think I'm feeling something now, the conviction I'm

feeling the knowledge of why I need to come to Christ. I feel like

I'm being compelled to open my heart and let all the pride that's in there

and the hardness to go away. Or is say, I'm a Christian,

but you know what, I need a fresh relationship with Jesus Christ. Because

I'm saved a long time, but I ain't acting like I'm saved, and

I'm not living like i'm saved. I'm not talking like I'm saved, and

I'm not going places and representing God. Well, so maybe I need just

to recommit my life to the Lord that I just want you to raise your

hand wherever you are. Don't be ashamed. This is how Jesus died,

mar beaten on across He was unashamed to die for you. That's the way

we come to Christ. There's something liberating that takes place. It's a mutual

sign of surrender when you I have been saved all my life. When I

was a sinner, I was bold about sinning. I wasn't concerned about what

other people thought. That's the way you come to Christ. Today. When

I count to three, you raise your hand to come to Christ or rededicate

your life, and we're gonna pray one one, one, two three.

Raise your hand wherever you are all across this auditorium, stand on your feet.

You had the courage to raise your hand. Just stand up right now,

Stand up for Jesus, stand up for him. Let's say this prayer

together sake. Dear Lord Jesus, you know who I am, you know

what I've done. But I recognize that I need a savior. I need

to be saved, and I thank you today that Jesus is the only one

that can save me. Today. Today I asked you to come and live

in my heart. I believe you died on the cross. Now from this

moment forward, I will serve you all the days of my life in Jesus

name. Amen, you may be seated. Well, hey, if you

said that prayer up on the screen, you'll see a website we celebrate with

you. Welcome to the Family of God. We believe your brother and sister

in Christ with us, and so if you'd like to dig deeper in your

faith or start this journey with Christ, we want to come alongside you.

So when you leave, you can go to that website WWT grow. Other

than that, if there's anyone else in here, if you need additional prayer

at all, our elders, deacons and our prayer team will be up here

in the front and they would love to pray with you. If you need

anyone just to come alongside of you. Agree with prayer, whether it be

healing, a new job, difficult time, relationship, whatever that is,

even in filling of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues,

they would love to help with you and come and talk to you about

that. So God bless you guys. You dismissed. We'll see you either

this weekend or next Wednesday. God bless you.