S3 E1: When the Tea is Too Hot: Gossip, Grace & Guarding Your Tongue

Foreign. Hey, everybody. We're back.

Yes, we are.

Season three. This is the first episode. We're so happy that

you're here. How you feeling, Zer, about being back?

Oh, I'm ready.

I'm also.

I'm ready.

We have some really good topics to discuss this season, and

one of the ones that came up and we want to be careful about how

we talk about it is when the tea is hot. Gossip culture, it's

kind of one of those things that everyone knows is bad, but it's

kind of socially acceptable. And even. Especially in church culture,

it's pretty acceptable. Not by everyone, but it's, like, pretty

subtle. Yeah. So I just want to ask a question. Like, what is

gossip? What is it? Like, well, how does it look like?

Yeah, let's just go for it.

Let's just go for it. Okay.

Okay. So I did my Google search. You know, like, what is.

What is gossip? Give me a definition here. Here's the definition

I got.

Let's see if it's the same one.

I have the unnecessary sharing of information about someone else,

whether that be unkind, unverified, unhelpful, and it involves

talking about someone instead of just talking to someone. And I

was, like, kind of digging deeper. It was talking about church

circles. Okay. It said, often disguised as concern, curiosity,

or even prayer requests.

That last one is pretty hard. I want to. I want to add something

before we get too deep into it. We are by no means number one,

the voice of Fielder Church. Like, again, I feel like we talk

about this pretty often. Like we are just two broken sinners saved

by grace that we love. We love Jesus and we love his kingdom work.

And so we're here to share kind of what we've learned and our

experiences in that. And number two, I don't want to go about

this as if we're not guilty of it too. Like, we're not just entering

into this conversation as, quote, unquote, victims of gossip,

but also perpetrators of it and even passive bystanders of it.

My definition that I. That Google gave me is a little different.

It says, like, gossip is conversation that's light, informal,

and usually about other people's business. It can be fun

to gossip about others, but no one likes it when they're the subject

of gossip. Apparently, that's Vocabulary.com's definition.

There you go.

But I, like, I kind of want to dig into what you said about, like,

it can show up as. Because I think that was my second question.

It's like, yes, in our circle, in church circles, like, how does

it show up? Can you read the list again?

Yeah, yeah. So for. Look at me. Hold on real quickly. I got to

show that. Look at this. Hey, man, I'm trying to be a little bit

more analog. You know, I realize I love social media, but

it is a trap sometimes, which is maybe that's got to be another

episode that we got to talk about. But here is my rebellion against

digital technology by slowing down just a little bit, you know,

writing. So here's kind of the. What it's often disguised as

specifically in church circles. So concern, curiosity, or

even prayer requests.

Okay. I kind of want to. The, the one that I had that came to mind

was prayer requests, because I feel like I've been in settings and

here, I don't know. I, I.

The.

Another question that I had about it is, like, I think certain

cultures also are more, like, not prone to it, but it's more interwind

in culture of like, certain cultures. Cultures like Mexican culture,

for example. It is super ingrained in the culture. Like, it

is kind of like, not that, you know, every Mexican is like, super

prone to it, but we're just like, it's just part of the culture,

like, part of the dynamics and. Yeah. So even just thinking

about it, I remember being in certain, like, growing up, being

at certain, like, prayer nights, and one of the senoras at

the group would share and be like, will someone just pray for

my friend's daughter? Or over there, she's doing xyz, just pray

for her. And I remember just being like, couldn't you just have

asked for prayer for that person's daughter? She's going through

a hard time. Like, I, and, and I don't necess.

Of spilling the tea.

Yeah. Like, I don't necessarily think the intention of

her was like, to paint this person in a malicious light or a

slanderous light, but you just. Not every detail is necessary

or edifying for the person and to everybody else involved.

Yeah. So could you say that then? Gossip's a little bit more

of. Kind of just not respecting the privacy of somebody.

I agree. I, I'm glad you said that. I, I've been thinking because

we've been talking about this episode for a while, back and forth

and just kind of exchanging ideas. Marty had some ideas and verses

that he wanted to share too. But one of the things that I've been

chewing on is just this, like, on, like, whenever people have gossiped

about me, what have I felt? And whenever I've gossiped or participated

in gossip about someone else, like, what Was my relationship to

that person. For example, if I were to experience or see someone

gossiping about my husband, Carlos, you can best believe I would

insert myself in that situation and put a stop to it. If

someone were gossiping about my best friend Bethany, or even these

two homies, Marty and sir, I would best believe I would have stepped

into it because I love these people, I want to honor these people,

and I respect these people. And gossip is disrespectful and dishonoring

to me. And so best believe I would insert myself in that. But

in with, like, if there were some, like, I don't know, I wouldn't

find myself gossiping about my husband or about my best friend or

about my friends. Like, people that I love and respect and want

to honor. Like, my heart's desire is to honor them. I'm typically

not going to find myself in a situation where I'm going to be gossiping

or engaging or passively participating in gossip about them

because my desire is to honor them. And so I guess my question

to you would be, like, if there's a person that you, like,

find yourself gossiping about or you enjoy receiving gossip about

that person, like, how do you view them? Do you view them as like,

someone made in the image of God, Someone with a calling on their

life? Someone. Someone who has a ministry that has been bestowed

on them by the. By the Lord, like, that he's entrusting them with?

Like, do you see them and desire to honor them, or do you just

not care about them enough to honor them, which is why you're okay

with it? Or worse, do you not like them or have contempt towards

them? To where any gossip about them is, like, exciting because

you're like, man, like, this person sucks. Like, and I'm. And

I'm, like, validating my own feelings.

Yeah, sure. No, just to answer your question, right, we're talking

about, hey, we just set the disclaimer like, we are not perfect.

No.

And so, yeah, for me, when I have engaged in gossip, it's typically

on those, like, latter two where it's like, either one, I just

don't really know the person enough, I don't care about them enough.

Or really, it's like, I just don't like that person. Or maybe

they don't do a certain thing, a type of way that, like, something

about them makes me want to engage in the gossip because I want

to hear negative news about them or I want to hear how they're

messing up. And, like, I was doing, like, as I was studying it

Myself, like, and we've been doing it as we've been going through

the Beatitudes as a church, as we've been going through the Sermon

on the Mount. Like, the whole point is, like, it's not just the

action, it's the heart behind it. And oftentimes when I'm gossiping,

what it's doing is. It's revealing my own heart that I have

insecurities, that. That I get jealous, that I am angry, that I

am bitter, that I am hurt. Like, it's a mirror, really, just

against me.

Yeah.

And. Yeah. I mean, it's exposing. Honestly.

I agree. I agree. I think the times where I've caught myself. And

I think as we've been praying about this and researching it and

digging into it, I've caught myself being like, oh, I didn't realize

that I was about to say that, like. Like this. The Holy Spirit

has convicted me and reminded me, like. Like, you're not. You're

not. You know, this is hurtful for you, but it's hurtful, like,

on the people that you're doing it about, too. And so I think

one thing I want to kind of also, because we kind of alluded

to it, but sometimes there's a fine line between slander, gossip,

slander, gossip on this side. And then processing your feelings

or emotions or your hurt.

Yeah.

Or something like that. I think there's a fine line between

that. Like a hair. A hair's breadth of a line.

Yeah.

And I think personally, now I'm just going to be really honest

and vulnerable here. I tend to idolize my privacy. Like, it is,

like, a really big deal to me. I had surgery a couple of weeks ago,

and I completely forgot to share it with my coworkers. And I

had every intention to, but, like, my mind is just, like, very.

Like, I keep things super close to the chest. I've always been

like that. I have, like, specific childhood memories that

I'm sure can pinpoint that's where that was built up. But I'm

just a super private person. So for me, whenever I need a process,

like, this person did this, and it really bothered me. Let me

try and figure out why it bothered me. And if you are like,

I'm feeling this way about this person, like, help me unpack

that. Like, if you're having those types of situations, we're

not saying those are inherently wrong. Like, I think those

are. Those can be healthy and sanctifying for you, but I think

there's something to keeping your circle small, because I think

there's Certain people that, that like, they, they want to process.

They have these feelings and they have these concerns and their

minds aren't set maliciously. They're just trying to understand

maybe, or like trying to figure out why they feel that way

or something or like, what they should do. Give me wisdom.

Yeah.

And they just keep their circle massive. And so like, what

they end up doing is like accidentally slandering people on

what might be a unique situation. And basically, like, we

had a prayer gathering a couple of months ago and one of the

things was like, do you speak with a slanderous tongue? Like, where,

where you go, is there division that spread? And if you're

like, if you're talking to someone about someone else and you're

trying to, or inadvertently, you end up painting that person's

perspective of that other person, that's slander. You know

what I'm saying? And so just like, I've been thinking about that

in times where I've like fallen into that of like, I'm trying

to process and maybe I don't get the reaction I want from this

person. Or maybe I walk away still confused or maybe I'm, you

know, still like, still dissatisfied with the answers I've

gotten or the advice I've gotten. I'm going to keep on going

to people or maybe even it's in my own sin wanting to be validated.

Yeah.

And I think that's a big thing. And so I guess, like, I've

seen that happen and I participated in that in other settings

too, of like, just keep your circle small. Like, you know, like,

I think that's where, you know, best friends are like, such

a good place. That's where counseling is such a good place.

Or even pastoral care is like such a great place. But like, I think

if you have a personal opinion about someone's actions or someone

in general, I would just refrain from sharing it as if it's

fact about that person. What it might just be your own personal

experience.

I think that's a good.

Does that make sense?

No, I think that makes a lot of sense. Like, I think for me, when,

especially when you're talking about keeping your circles small,

I think there's a difference between, like, I'm sharing this with

you because I want you to kind of what you're saying. Like, I want

you to agree with me. So, so that way I can talk bad about this

person so I can gossip, so I can spread this rumor. But I think

there's a difference when you're in tight circles. So for example

like my spouse, I confide in her, I process with her. But if in

that, like, if I'm truly not trying to gossip, but just trying

to seek understanding, I know that my wife is very. She's pointed.

Like, she's. She's not going to just let me continue and keep

me in my sin. You're so hot.

Shout out to Farah, bro. She's playing.

There you go. But it's like, she's not going to let me just continue

on in my sin. She's going to challenge me, right? Like, she's

going to be like, I don't know if that's right, what you're doing,

you know, or she will just give me a different perspective.

Hey, maybe you're not thinking about it this way. Have you thought

about. Maybe they're thinking about it this way, you know? And

it prevents me then from really, like, I trust my wife, I

trust her judgment, and it just prevents me from then kind of

what you're saying. Like, no, I'm going to just go to other people,

go to other places and just try to validate myself or get the

answer that I'm seeking, where it's like, no, I trust my wife.

Yes.

I trust her wisdom. I trust the Holy Spirit in her. And she isn't

just going to yes, men me. She's just going to like, no, like,

give me a hard buck.

So, yeah, no, I agree. And I think I, I, yeah, I, I think going

to people because I. Bethany, we love you.

You're the best.

She is, like, she's my best friend and she such a supporter and

such an encourager.

Yeah.

She's also very loyal. And so I think you have, I think not just,

like, when it comes to processing your emotions, but, but

you also not only keep your circle small is my recommendation.

That's just like, that's just my suggestion. I'm not saying that

that's biblical necessarily, but that's my suggestion. And I think

when it comes to share, if you're trying to process something

about something, if someone has, like, let's say hypothetically,

Bethany has beef with Zur. She doesn't, by the way. She's okay with

him. Let's say, hypothetically, Bethany has beef

with Zer, and Zur accidentally hurts my feelings on something. Like,

he says something and I get really upset. And I'm trying to process,

like, I'm like, why did what he said upset me so bad? Which, number

one, is what I always do whenever I feel hurt, I'm like, why?

Why do I feel like this? And I say always because I'm a five. I

love information, I love knowledge. And so I, like, I kind

of want to know that. But so I'm usually like, why? I'm probably

not gonna process with Bethany, and not because I don't

love and trust her more than anything, but because if she already

has a negative opinion of him, I'm not gonna add gas on the fire

and, like, make things harder for her heart and be a stumbling

block in her faith in, like, you know, making her bitterness or

unforgiveness harder towards this person.

So it's both ways.

Exactly. And so, like, not only do I feel like we have to guard

what we say to the people that we speak it to for the sake of, like,

their faith and, like, not being a stumbling block in their

faith and with their relationship with God, but so vice

versa. If Bethany has, like, if I have bitterness towards Zur,

and Bethany has, like, a issue with Zur, and she starts, you know,

processing with me because we're best friends, I'm gonna probably,

like, it's my responsibility to be like, hey, I don't think I

should be the one that you process this with, because I'm having

to deal with this in my own heart, and it's actually gonna make

it harder for me. So, like, can you find someone else to process

it with? Like, go to your, you know, know someone else. Like, and

I think that's your responsibility, like, as a believer,

like, guarding your own heart and, like, making sure that you're

not building up a case of, like, continuing to validate your

view, your negative view on someone by gossiping. Does that make

sense?

No. That makes so much sense. I, I, I know it was one of the questions,

so I kind of want to just touch on it. Because you touched

on it, right? Is like, okay, when gossip happens, what are some

ways that you can engage with that? We can engage with it in a

healthy way, in a biblical way, in a, in a right way.

It's such a hard question. And I feel like I've been like, we've

been thinking about this so stinking long, and I don't know if

I have, like, a set answer for it. I think, again, I'm gonna go

back to, like, like, passive participation kind of. If it's someone

that I love and honor, I'm probably going to put a stop to it.

That's incredibly uncomfortable. If someone's gossiping

about someone that, number one, you don't care about because,

or you don't know them, or number two, you don't, like, Them.

So, like, it would be harder to put a stop to that if one of those

two were true. But I would say don't engage with it. Like, you know,

like, again, like, in my role at work, I feel like I know more

information than I'd like sometimes. And there was a period

of time when I first came on, like, came on the role that people

were asking me questions and just, like, consistently wanting

information from me, and I just wouldn't engage with it. Like,

I'd be like, okay, like, let's move on. Like, let's change the subject.

That's good.

And I think you can operate like that. Like, if you. You can

be like. Like, I have a friend specifically that I know. She does

this all the time. Like, if you're talking about something or

you're gossiping, she will be like, all right, and then just leave.

Like, she will literally just like, straight up leave. And I think

that's one way you can do it. You can also be like, I don't have

anything to contribute here, and then leave. Or you can change

the subject. You know, like, there's. There's ways that you can,

like, change the direction if you don't feel, like, a super strong

conviction to put a stop to it. Like, yeah, that's enough, you

freaking sinners. Like, if you don't feel that conviction to do

that, then don't. But, like, you also don't have to sit there

and receive the quote, unquote blessing of all this information

and chisme that you don't really care to receive. You know

what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, I'm just trying to find a prayer.

How can I pray for God?

No, I agree, but see, I love that you said that. So I had written

down my own, and you pretty much said a lot, like, remove yourself.

You don't need to. If you don't need to be in that situation,

you can leave. You can redirect the conversation. You could

literally just say, yeah, that's okay, and then just.

Anyways.

Anyways, talk about something different. I do love what you said,

and I think I'm. I'm prone to not do this, which is just to be

upfront of just like, almost like a. A loving rebuke of just like,

hey, I don't think that's beneficial. Let's not talk about

it. Like, I. I would. Like, honestly, I just leave or I just

change the subject, but I think that is a healthy way to in

love. Rebuke them. Like, hey, I don't think this is healthy.

For either of us.

For either of us.

Yeah.

Let's stop this. Yeah, but there was another one that I wrote

down here, which is interesting because it talks about

it. It's just like, if it really is that big of a concern,

why not just pray instead of making it a prayer request that we

pass around? Like, would you pray for that bird?

You know, like, how long have you spent in prayer?

Let's just pray. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's good.

That's good, that's good. No, that's great.

Interesting.

Yeah, I. So this morning I was, you know, I was kind of nervous

about this episode because again, like, I never want us to come

off as like self righteous or anything like that because again,

we've been pretty vulnerable here. Like, we do find ourselves

stuck in it. We're passive bystanders to it. And I'm going through

the gospels as our churches, and I was at Luke 18 and it talks

about the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector. And

everyone knows the story, or most people do, of like there was

a Pharisee and a tax collector in a temple and they were praying

and Jesus is like telling this story. And Jesus is like. But only

one of them went back righteous and that was the tax collector

because he was presenting himself with like, mercy. He's like,

God, like, have mercy on me, a sinner. And the Pharisee was like,

I'm slaying it. I'm doing everything perfect. And just like

the humility and like the under, like the tax collector walked

in mercy because he had received great mercy, you know. But

when I was reading it this morning, the first sentence of the

verse, it stuck out to me because I'd never really fully processed

it before. And so it's like in verse nine, it says he also told

this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were

righteous and treated others with contempt. And then he goes into.

To the, the parable. And so just that thought too of like, I

would also just like, either if you're in, like not necessarily

the perpetrator or the victim, but you're the bystander or you're

any. In any one of those seats, like analyze your heart. Like,

if you're being gossiped about, why does this bother me so

much? Like, if you're gossiping, why am I doing this? And

if you're like being passive, why am I okay receiving this? Like,

I would just stop and analyze your heart. And if there's a fragment

of contempt, self righteousness, or you Know, like,

earthly wisdom in there. Like, well, I just kind of want to have

some. Like, I wrote this down and I talked to Zur about it. I feel

like sometimes, and not everybody might be able to relate

to this, but I feel like sometimes in ministry we use getting

insight on a person as a fancy terminology for gossiping or slandering

about that person. Because, like, Hazer, you've ministered to

Homie for a couple of years. Like, can you tell me kind of like,

some of the insight that I can get on how I can minister to this

person? And like, I'm not saying that those conversations are

bad. If your posture is truly, like, the Lord has put it on my heart

to ask Zur for wisdom, but if it's in my own, like, I don't trust

the spirit trying to find something. I'm trying to find. Yeah,

like, I'm trying to figure out, like, this, like, their secret

so I can know how to talk to them. Or, like, I'm not trusting

the spirit to guide the conversation enough and I need to

know what I'm going to say to this person. And you're, like, asking

for insight on that person. Like, I just, I. I would just be

like, honestly, I'm just gonna. I'd rather not talk to their

sibling or their, you know, spouse or whoever. Like, I'm just

gonna talk to that person and let them be the source. Go to the

source. Like, let them tell me what they're currently struggling

with. But I think another question that Marty brought up too

is just like, if it's an ongoing struggle, like, if it's an

ongoing struggle for you in a certain capacity, or if it's an ongoing

struggle for. For you professionally or even personally

or, you know, whatever the case may be. If it's an ongoing struggle,

like, how do you go about, like, what does that conversation

with God look like?

I think that's a really good point. Like, if specifically when

you're saying, this is my struggle, but then how does it affect

my relationship with God? One of the things that, I mean, I preached

on it like two weeks ago when we were in the passage about anger

and lust and it's all about the heart. But there's a passage

where he just talks about, like, offering your gift at the altar.

Yes, leave it there. Go first, be reconciled to your brother and

then come in, offer your gift. But I think that is an aspect. If

you struggle with gossip, meaning you're at odds with other

people, you are such at odds that you just constantly speak against

them, or you're Spreading false rumors. You know, like the.

I think there is a biblical mandate that you cannot just offer

your thanksgiving to God, your prayers to God, your offering to

God while being at odds with your brother or sister.

Yeah.

Like, it. No gift. Like, offering no gift is better than offering

a hypocritical gift. And so therefore. Right. Go leave your gift

at the altar. Don't just offer up empty praise. Stop gossiping.

Go get reconciled to that person that you're gossiping about,

and then come and offer your gift. I think that's a. Yeah, I think

before, like, it's hard.

It is.

You know what I'm saying?

It's literally, like, so convicted. Yeah, it's super hard.

It is hard.

And I, I think because it's so sneaky, like, it's easy to, like,

again, you're like, well, I was just trying to, like, process

my feelings about this person. I was trying to, like, you know,

trying legitimately to understand why they're struggling

with that sin or, like, why they're doing that. Like, that's

not right. Like, I'm just trying to understand. I think that

they're like, I'm not saying that your heart isn't a malicious

place whenever it comes up. Like, that's not necessarily, necessarily.

That might be your case, like, in certain settings, but I think

sometimes there is legitimately just like, a, a desire

to understand. And a lot of times we fear what we don't understand,

and so, or we fear that we're crazy and, like, we want to be validated.

And so that's why you're, like, having all these conversations

about, like, with all these people, just because of the sake

of, like, wanting to understand, but you're just not necessarily

considering the consequences of gossip, you know, like, there,

there are consequences to it, you know, Like, I've, I, I, you know,

friendships have dissolved. Like, groups of friends, you know,

have been affected. Like, you know, I, I've carried a lot of hurt

about it before, and then even just, like, it's caused hurt because

of my actions, you know? And so I'm like, I, it's not without,

like, it's not without consequences. And I think it also,

like, creates division and puts a block in between my relationship

with the Lord because I'm like, like you said, like, how am

I gonna, like, speak life like honeycomb to the Lord and want with

the same mouth that I'm speaking division and contempt about,

you know what I'm saying? Like, those. You can't have both

ways.

Yeah, I mean, it's exactly what the book of James says, you

know, he talks about the tongue is a wildfire. Right. With

that same tongue, we offer praise to God, and with the same

tongue, we slander other people. But the same, like, can fresh

water and salt water come out of the same. It can't. It shouldn't

be. That is not what is intended for us. And so life in Christ

is.

Yeah, no, I agree.

It's what uplifts people.

Yes, yes.

Not what tears down I.

There's a verse that me and Marty were sharing about earlier,

and it's in James 4:11, and it says, brothers do not slander one

James 4:11

another. Anyone who speaks, speaks against his brother or judges

him, speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the

law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

Yeah.

And I think just again, like, I. I think about, like, the unforgiving.

What's his. What's his name? The unforgiving servant.

Yeah.

Where he's. Like, his lack of forgiveness towards a person is what

caused him to be thrown into jail at the end of the. At the end

of the parable. And so I think we. I don't know if you're. I think

gossip a lot of times is casting judgment. I'm not going to

say that's always the case, but a lot of times it is casting

judgment. And so just like that, that mouth that speaking judgment

is not. Is. Does not take the appearance of someone who has received

great mercy. So I think there's a humility and an understanding

that we have that, you know, given the same amount of circumstances,

I might have done the same thing. Like, you know, I might have

also gotten caught up in a gossipist conversation because of

xyz. You know, like, I think there's just, like, a level of empathy

that needs to take place as well as the desire to honor that

person. Like, how can I honor this person? And there's a. For example,

there's a friend of mine that had a conflict with someone that

wasn't even in her circle, but she had a conflict with someone and

she was trying to process with. With me and someone else. And

the restraint that she had whenever she was sharing fact versus

her perception versus what she felt. And she never name dropped.

She never said their name. And I just was, like, honestly admiring

that because she spoke them like she was very hurt, but she spoke

about them with such honor. Like, you wouldn't like. It was almost

like she was talking about, like, her friend. Like my deep friend.

Yeah.

This happened, and it really hurt me. She was spoken about speaking

about them with a lot of honor. And she never name dropped.

And so, like, you can. Sometimes you can figure out who

so and so is talking about, but just don't, like, try, you know,

allow. Allow the ambiguity of who they might be at odds with, you

know, like, just leave it. It's not. It doesn't matter. And

she never name dropped. She was always trying to honor them.

And just like, the way that she spoke about them in spite of

her hurt was with just like, so much love and like, the desire.

And so you can still process your feelings and your emotions or

like, your thoughts about a person or their actions without dishonoring

them or slandering them, you know?

Yeah, no, I agree. Maybe just to kind of shift the conversation

because you talked about it earlier. Kind of like the. The places.

Yeah.

Of gossip or like people in gossip. Right. So there's a person

who is gossiping. There's maybe the person who's the bystander

of receiving that gossip. But then what about, like, you, if you're

the one who's being gossiped about. Yeah. Like, you said it earlier

and I want to just repeat it because you talked about, like, checking

the source. Like, consider the source. Like, is that a credible

person? Like, do. Does their opinion really matter? You know?

Like, I don't know. For me, it's just. I think that's a healthy

place for me to be where it's like, if they are gossiping about

me, like, should I really feel bad about it? Because they're. They're

saying, like, maybe it'll make me frustrated. But ultimately it's

like, am I here to please man? Or I'm here to please God, you know?

You know, or.

But it is. It's like they don't really know me. And maybe I

think it goes back to what you were saying. Like, could I just believe

the best about people? Like, maybe they just don't really know

me and they're just speaking out of their. Sorry. Out of the booty,

you know? Yeah, sorry, you got to cut that up.

I. I think that's a great, great point. Yeah. Coping, I guess

mechanisms are like how to. How to process it when other people

are, you know, gossip being the subject of it.

Yes.

I personally, it. It. I don't know. I feel like I've said this

before, but whenever people gossip about me, not always because

I don't know, I'm not the Lord, but many times it does get

back to me. And I think. I don't know why necessarily that is,

but I know that the Lord has used it for his glory because he's

revealed so much of my sin nature in it and sanctified my posture

towards other people in it, my suspicious tendencies, my, my distrust,

my, you know, ease of bitterness towards people and lack

of forgiveness towards people. Like, the Lord has worked on all

of those terrible areas in my heart and in my life through situations

like that. And so I think there's been times where I've been

gossiped about that I'm like, it literally does not matter to me

because I'm like, whatever, I don't even care. And in those specific

settings, most of the time it's about something that I'm like

super secure about. So, like, for example, there was once where

I was gossiped about because I was getting a specific job that someone

else wanted and this person made it very known that she didn't

think I deserved it kind of thing. And she had a lot of reasons

and a lot of them were low key, valid. And so I was like, yeah,

totally makes sense. I am super secure in my work ethic. Like,

that is like something that I'm super proud of. Like, I'm super

secure in it. And so it like literally was like water on my back.

I was like, anyways, like, I, you know, you're entitled to that,

whatever. There's been other times where people have gossiped

about me in ways that were areas of like, vulnerability and

like, areas where I had previously been hurt that it was

super traumatizing. Like, and I'm not using that word lightly,

like it was traumatizing. And, and I'm not saying that as like,

oh, boohoo. No, like there were instances in that where I made

it worse because of my actions, because of like my short

fuse, because of my lack of love and, and honesty towards people.

And so like, I think I, I'm not, you know, like, I'm not, I'm

not a victim here, you know, Like I, I think. But all that to

say is, I think, find out, like, why does it bother you? Is

it something that you're already insecure about? Is it something

that perhaps you're carrying hurt from, from a previous situation

or previous friendship or relationship? Like, why does this

gossip bother you? And I think the other thing that I would say

is just like, find out what your next step is. Like, what do

you, if it's like, do you say anything to that person? Yeah, like,

or do you leave it and just like, whatever, I'm just going to

move on with my life. I don't really know that person anyway, or

do you say something to the person, you know, like, what it.

So I guess that would be my situ. Like, my things that I've learned

by my own mistakes. I think just figure out why it bothers you,

like, what hurt did it expose or what, why didn't it bother you

kind of thing. And then, like, what is your next step like? And

prayer needs to be the foundation of both of those processes.

You know, like. Like praying to the Lord, asking the Lord, like,

why does this bother me so much? Why, you know, what is happening?

Did I contribute to this? Because sometimes people do things

and they're like, I don't understand why it bothered people

so much. And I'm like, you literally did something crazy. You

know, like, so some, like, just, you know, be empathetic. Like,

I don't. I strongly believe two things. Like, number one, I.

I believe that we are not the sum of our biggest mistakes. And

so sometimes people just make bad decisions or sometimes they let

something slip that they shouldn't have. You know, like, we

are not the sum of their mistakes. Like, have empathy towards

that person. And the second thing that I would say is, like,

I. I believe that the Lord truly does use all things for the

purposes of his kingdom, and he uses even the worst of my. Like,

in all things. Not just this, but, like, in all things. I've seen

the Lord take the most terrible things and sanctify and

purify me in the midst of it.

Yeah.

And use me for his glory in the midst of it. So that would be

kind of my concepts.

And honestly, I would like to, like, kind of like my perspective

of that which you just shared specifically, like, you talked about,

you know, checking your. Like, is there any truth to this kind of

thing? Like, because I think for me, if somebody gossips about

me, I think that is a healthy place for me to be, is to say, like.

Or at least that's the thought that comes to my mind is like, man,

is there, like, one. Do I trust that person? Like, is what,

you know, are they a trustworthy person? Like, because

if it was like, somebody I really knew and valued, I'd wonder,

like, they. Their. Their gossiping, I guess, means more like,

why are they.

Are you living for the word of man?

For sure.

No. Yeah.

But then on the other hand, like, checking the. Like, for me,

it's like, is there some truth to what they're saying? Because then

it's like, oh, maybe I do need to check myself. Yeah, maybe I need

to repent of something. But then going back to the passage in

Matthew, like, it does say if your brother has something against

you. And so just speaking to that, like, yeah, there are times

where maybe, and I'll be honest, like, I don't do this because

this is not like, I hate conflict. I am, I will wait until

I have to confront somebody before I do it. But it's like there

are times when reconciliation is needed and so you actually have

to go, yeah, and be reconciled. Like, you actually have

to take the steps of faith to do that. So.

Yeah, and I think, I think in those instances too, not just like

in the conversation about like, you know, having that conversation

or reconciling, but also like, even in general, even if you don't

feel prompted to like pursue a conversation with someone, like,

it is not my job to try and figure out other people's motivations

and intentions.

Yeah.

You know, like if, if some, if something happened and I hear something

about some, you know, something that someone said about

me, like, it's not my job to figure out like why, why or like

know where their heart posture was at or like if you confront someone

and they like, are like, I'm sorry, you know, it is not my job

to try and like, well, did you, you know, let, like I'm like,

oh yeah, I totally forgive you. And then later on be like, well,

did that person actually mean that? Like, you know, it. That's

not my role. Like, and I would rather be someone who trusted too

much than someone who is always suspicious, always kept people

at arm's length because of previous hurts. Like punishing, forever

punishing the next friend because of what someone did 10 years

ago. You know, like, I'd rather trust too much and let my,

and let the Lord's grace shine in that than be cold and hard hearted

towards people. And I tend to fall in the hard hearted part because

I am super like suspicious and because of previous experiences,

like I tend to, I do tend to analyze and try and figure out people,

people's intentions, but that's not my job. And like that,

that is up to the Lord to like be my advocate and you know, if you,

and if you don't, like. I think there's also times where gossip

is just gossip. Like it's not, it's not that deep. Sometimes it

truly is just like someone making a fool of themselves or someone

like, you know, just gossiping for the sake of it being entertaining

to them or whatever. Like sometimes it's just not, they're

not trying to necessarily tear you down. You know what I mean? I

don't know if I'm making any sense. Like, I'm just like, it's

not. It's not the end of the world quote. Like, I guess.

Yeah. Like, we. We don't have to stake our whole. Like, oh, my.

My day is ruined. I'm. My. My whole identity is ruined because

somebody, like, yeah, it doesn't have to be that. I agree

with that. But I. I do want to touch on this because I think it's

really helpful. Marty had given us some verses.

Yeah.

If you could just pull them up. I really love to just spend some

time rooting it because I think, like, I think there's something

that I'm learning as we've been memorizing Scripture. Like,

the more you memorize Scripture, the more you meditate

on His Word, the more it comes out. So that way, in those instances

when you're tempted to gossip, or in those instances where somebody

is gossiping to you about someone else, or in those instances

where you find out that you're being gossiped about, I think having

the word of God, knowing what the word of God says and letting

that be the foundation is really incredibly helpful.

I agree. I agree. Yeah. So one of them is a proverb, and it says,

Proverbs 16, 27, 28. And it says, a worthless man plots evil,

and his speech is like scorching fire. A dishonest man spreads

strife, and a gossip separates close friends. And that's a proverb.

And that proverb that chapter is specifically talking about, like,

what the. What the sinners do, basically, and then what the redeemed

do, kind of thing like this wisdom in this. And then Romans,

Romans 1:28

chapter 1, verses 28, 32, it says, Furthermore, just as they did

not think it was worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God

gave them over to their depraved mind so that they do what

ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind

of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy,

murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers,

God haters. Insolent, arrogant, and boastful. They invent

ways of doing evil. They disobey their parents. They have

no understanding, no fidelity, no love, and no mercy. Although they

know God's righteous decree to those that do such things deserve

death, they not only continue to do those very things, but also

approve those who practice of them. Yeah, and this. Whenever I

saw that, like, I read it a couple of times, chapter one of Romans

is like, it's. It's wild. Like, you know, Romans is wild. Like,

go back and read it. But basically, like, the first verse

of that is like, these are the kind of people that they have become,

and God gave them over to that depraved mind because they built

that on themselves. And if you look at the part where it talks about

gossips and slanders, it says they are gossips, slanderers, God

haters. Like, that sin building, that sin is right next

to being a God hater. And so I'm like, clearly it's something

that's like, not necessarily. Like, God isn't asking us to do this.

Like, he's literally putting it with God hating, you know, so

that was crazy. Whenever I read that, we already read James

4, 11, but also James 2, it says James 212 and 13. It says, so

speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of

liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown

no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. And so just like being

merciful in our speech, again, like having the posture of someone

who has received mercy, because then my heart is to give

mercy, because I have been given honor by the Lord, where I

have heaped nothing on myself except dishonor, and he has chosen

to give me mercy and honor by that. So, like, how can I do that

in the same set? And then we talked about Galatians 5, but I'm

gonna. It's 10 verses, but it's really good, so stay with us.

16:26. Then it says, and this is about walking with the Spirit,

walking in step with the Spirit, says, but I say, walk by

the Spirit. And you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires

of the Spirit are against the flesh. For these are opposed to each

other to keep you from doing the things that you want to do. But

if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now, the

works of the flesh are evident. Sexual immorality, impurity,

sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of

anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies,

and these things, the like. I warn you, as I warned you before,

that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God,

but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,

goodness and faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Against

such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus

have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live

by the Spirit, let us also step, keep in step. With the Spirit,

let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying to

one another. And then there's another verse that I. It's in, it's

earlier in James. Did I already read James? I've been reading

a lot of James, but there's a. There's a verse in James 3 that says,

who is wise and understanding among you by his good conduct, by

his good conduct, let him show the works in the meekness of wisdom.

But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in

your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not

the wisdom that comes from above, but it is earthly, unspiritual,

demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there

will be disorder in every vile practice. That the wisdom from above

is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy

and good fruits, impartial and sincere, and a harvest of righteousness

is sown in peace by those who make peace.

That's good.

And that one was, like, particularly impactful to me because

just thinking about, like, bitter jealousy and selfish ambition

kind of being like the core of certain, of certain, like, ways that

people boast and are false to the truth. But also it's talking

about how, like, this is not the wisdom that comes from above,

but it is earthly, unspiritual and demonic. And so, like, I don't

want to. I don't want the wisdom that I speak or any of the

things that I say to be, to come to be unspiritual, earthly and

demonic. You know, I want those things to be pure, peaceable,

gentle, open to reason, full of mercy. And so I feel like when

it comes to gossip, like, it breeds division, it poisons the mind

of people towards another person based on a very personal,

potentially personal experience. And it isn't honoring

to that person. And therefore, if it's not honoring to that person,

do you think it's honoring to the Father? You know what I'm saying?

Like, so I. That I think that's ultimate. And like, again,

like, these are all things that I've learned not just in, like,

in situations where it's just like, it's all encompassing. Like,

I've. I've learned these things by trial and freaking error.

So, like, I'm telling you guys, that's not for the sake of

like, being immune or have some diplomatic immunity to experiencing

it or doing it because, like, it's the reality. Like, you're going

to find yourself in these types of scenarios. And I just, I've

just learned how, how much Truly, like, how many consequences

it can have.

Yeah. And I love that you're saying that, because I think at the

end of the day, when you're just talking about, like, just to

kind of sum up everything that you just read, it's like the person

who gossips, ultimately, their desire and what they're doing is

to tear down.

Yeah.

But that which is of the spirit and not of the flesh is that

which builds up, that which is loving and joyful and kind and gentle.

Like, this is the fruit of the spirit. Like, how we talk about people,

how we encourage people, how we speak about people when they're

not there, when they're not present. Right. Like, to uplift them

is godly, to gossip and to tear them down is what you're saying.

Earthly, demonic. It is ungodly. So if that's just an encouragement

to anybody who's listening, like, check yourself. Is the words.

Are the words that are coming out of your mouth uplifting, Are

they encouraging? Are they pointing them to Jesus? Are they.

You know, like, that is what we should just put on display is

the fruit of the spirit.

Yeah. No, I agree. And I think my other word to that is, like, there's

some people that are listening to this that they're like, yeah,

I hope that I'm gonna share this with so and so, because they

need to hear this. Or, like. Or I've been the victim of that,

of whatever they're talking about. Like, I. The. Whoever is.

Whoever did that to me, I'm gonna. I hope that they hear this,

or I hope they're listening to this. Check yourself. You know, like,

that's my word. Like, just check yourself. Like, check. Ask

the Lord to. I think that's, like, one of the most beautiful prayers

in the Psalms where David is like, reveal in me. Like, reveal,

Lord. Like, look in my heart and reveal in me any ways, any unrighteous

ways that I have sinned against you. Like, reveal to me God.

And the Lord is kind. He will do that to you. And so I want to,

like, if you find in yourself that you're having the posture, even

in listening to this, about, like, feeling like you're immune

from this or you haven't necessarily committed that, there

might be some of you guys out there that you just straight up,

don't struggle with gossip, praise God. Like, praise the Lord.

Like, that is a grace. That is the grace of God. But I also want

you to ensure that that is the case, because if it's not, then you

might just be like, you might unfortunately have some self Righteousness

or something like that. Yeah, some facade or something that you

just like you're hard hearted and you're not able to fully understand

it. And you know, take it from us, like, we've experienced it. We've,

like, you know, we're here like trying to share what we've learned

in all three of these categories of like, you know, being

the one who gossips, who gossips, being the passive bystander,

being the one who has been gossiped about. I think there, there

it is unfortunately, a. It is something that I'm sure most of us

have experienced and in all three settings. But like, there is

grace and there is the Lord's kindness to sanctify all the parties

involved in it. And so I think if I can leave you guys with anything,

I would just say, like, just let it be your heart's desire to

honor, honor those around you. Because when you're, when we're honoring

those like, or honoring the least of these, like we're honoring

King Jesus. And, and I want my, the way that I treat God's people

or the people that are made in the imago DEI to be how that, that

I honor them even if I don't agree with them or even if I have,

you know, you know, whatever issues towards them, like, I want

to honor them in my speech about them. So like, if practical

steps, we already talked about it. But just like I'd say keep your

circle small. Like, don't. Not everyone needs to hear everything.

And yeah, just like you can, you can process things, but invite

the spirit into that conversation to ensure that you're

not moving more into slander, that you're not name dropping for

the sake of people knowing things. Yeah, just, I, I just honor,

honor the Lord. Keep your hearts and your minds pure in these

things. So that'd be my thought. Any final thoughts?

I think my one final thought really is just to the person who,

maybe they're coming to this podcast and they're just thinking

like, this is why I don't like the church. They're just a bunch

of gossipers, you know, And I think my word of advice as my nose

is dripping day, you could cut that out or just keep it in.

Yeah, that's fine.

It's beautiful. You can see my man. It's great. Darn allergies.

Yeah.

I think to the person who looks to the church and says, this

is why I don't go to church, they're a bunch of gossipers. Or

maybe they've even been a recipient of that gossip, they've

been hurt by the church. Like, my just reminder is that, like, the

church is full of people who are broken, who have been redeemed

by a Savior. We are saints. Yes, but we sin still. And don't

let the gossip of a few change your perspective on Jesus. Jesus

doesn't gossip.

Yeah.

Jesus uplifts. Jesus speaks your identity the truth about you,

not rumors about you.

Yeah.

And so just to point you back to Jesus, he is the. The one that

you can rely on when his church is failing. So.

Yeah. And if I can. Yeah, I agree. And I'm glad you're saying

that. I kind of want to read as you were talking. I don't know

what's been spoken about your identity. I don't know what. Lies

have been easy to believe because a person who was hurt spoke

them over. You sure? I know that. I. There was a verse earlier

that we read that talks about fits of rage. And I fall into that

category, honestly. And so whenever hurt people hurt people.

And in times of hurt, I've spoken things that are not necessarily

true of others because of my own heart. And the Lord has continued

in his kindness to give me freedom from that and kindness in

that. But I know what a word of death can do to your identity

and your belief in who you are. So I just wanna read this verse

that is so encouraging to me and I hope it encourages you. 1 Peter

1 Peter 2:9

2:9. You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,

a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim

the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his

marvelous light.

That's good.

So cling to the word of God. Cling to the truth about who you

are as opposed to what has been spoken about you or even what

you've spoken about yourself or about other people. There is grace,

there is forgiveness, there is redemption. And all are welcomed

at the altar of God.

Amen. Come on.

Thank you guys for watching. We hope that this encouraged and

challenged you a little bit. And we hope to see you next time.

See you guys.

Peace out.