S3 E5: Still Their Kid: How to Honor Parents as an Adult

Hey, everybody, it's Becky here. Me and Zur are back, and we're

with another fantastic episode of the Fielder podcast, and we are

here with two very, very special guests. We have Bethany,

of course, so you guys remember, and then an extra special

guest because it's your first time here.

First time ever.

Yeah. What is. Can you introduce yourself and your relationship

to other panelists potentially here?

Hey. Well, my name is Raf Fael. Everybody calls me Rafi, and

I am Bethany's dad.

And we. We brought them here today because we kind of wanted to

talk about something that I don't feel like ever gets asked,

but I think we all kind of navigate it differently. We actually

tried to record this episode last season, but it didn't come out

the way we wanted. And so we wanted to try again, and we didn't

have Rafi, and so I think he's, like, the missing piece for

this episode. But we're here to talk about how can you approach

a healthy relationship with your parents as an adult child? And

we brought them to. Not necessarily because you guys are,

like, the unhealthiest or the healthiest, but, like, you guys are

very. I don't know, I feel, like, very forthcoming about how

much y' all have grown and, like, as Bethany continues to, like,

become, you know, even more gross and independent, like, how

the dynamic has shifted. And so I kind of wanted to, like, ask

you guys a little bit about that. So I guess, like, a question

that I can start all of us on is, like, you know, scripture talks

about honoring your father and mother, and it was, like, one of

the first commandments that had a blessing attached to it. So,

like, how does. How do you feel like that has. How have you

approached that commandment in your personal life with your parents

or in your case, both of Yalls cases with children?

Yeah.

Why don't you go first?

Oh, I go first. This is great. You know, I. This is something. I

remember it from being very young, knowing this commandment.

No understanding there's an expectation from God about honoring

your parents. I also remember early on learning this is the only

commandment that comes with a promise, Right. When it talks about

having. Having the expectation of. Of a long life when you honor

your parents. And I had two very different parents. I had a mom

that was loving and caring and sweet and everything you could ever

ask for, and it was so easy to honor her. And then I had a dad who

was detached and rough around the edges and harsh and mean words

and unbeliever. And so it was hard to honor Him. And yet I always

had that fear. And not an unhealthy fear, but a fear of the

Lord, of, am I doing what God wants from me? Right. And. And it's

just respecting them as best you can, respecting who they are.

You know, a lot of times you honor people by the way you refer

or talk about them when they're not there. You honor people

by the way you talk to them, the way you treat them. There's so

many things about honoring. You know, a lot of people think honoring

only means obeying. Like, you have to obey your parents. And I

think that there are times where people are able. You can disobey

or disagree without necessarily dishonoring.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's good. What about.

I don't want to say it all.

No, no, I think that's great. What about you guys?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's. There's a lot of truth in that, I

think. Yeah. I can't look at you so weird. No, I think my perception.

We'll see what his comments are. But my perception of me as a

child, I was very much, like, not always, but very obedient or,

like, submissive, because I just always. That's just. I'm a people

pleaser, and so I'm just. That's very much my character. And

as I grew up, I was like, that's enough. I've obeyed for long

enough. And I think as I became an adult, that was harder.

And also learning that honoring isn't always obese obedience,

especially in Hispanic culture, where it's like, what your

parents say, I feel like is in. I think in Hispanic culture just

a little more heavier than other cultures. And being a, like,

unmarried woman who, like, moves out of the house and being

so independent, I think that there's, like, challenges that I

face. And I don't think I always handled it healthily because

I just was like, nobody tells me what to do. But.

But I, you know.

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think everybody goes through that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Rebelliousness. But there's a beauty to the obedience part, I think.

I think the obedience is also part of the honoring and part of

the trusting your parents that they want the best for you. And,

I mean, there's a lot of good about. About obedience. And you don't.

I don't know if I've shared this. Maybe I've shared it with other

adults. I didn't want to spoil it, so I didn't tell her, but. But

no, when. When. When we were pregnant, waiting for Bethany, I

was working with an agency that did a lot of social work. And

I met with a lot of families, and sometimes we would take families

to offices to do different kind of paperwork and things. And

some of the kids that came along were really difficult. And

those were the kind of kids that the parent would go, hey, come

over here and sit down. No. Very challenging. And I was very

taken back. And I was like, I can't believe how some of these kids

blatantly disobey and disrespect.

Like, that's not just disobey.

It's also like, yes. And so I began to pray. You know, a lot of

people pray, God, give me a healthy baby. God, give me a healthy

baby. And I honestly, I prayed often, often, often, God, give me

an obedient baby. Even your beating child, even though he's out.

And here she is now. I'm telling you, Bethany has been incredibly

obedient in so many ways. And even when. When we would say, hey,

no, we're not. We're not going to play at this time, or, we're not

doing that, or, Bethany, don't go there, she would be submissive.

She would be obedient to. To the authority of her parents. And

so praise the Lord.

Yeah, let's praise God.

Yeah, Until.

Until she became, like, an adult. Ish. You know, like, legally

speaking.

Yeah. And I had a really interesting journey, too, because

it's like, I graduated high school, and then I moved over overseas

for missions for two years. So I was, like, immediately by myself.

And then I came back after being on the mission field living

with my parents, and I was like, what do you mean? I can't go

out right now? Like, I haven't lived with you for two years. So

there's also, like, everybody's story is different. You

know, everybody has different, like, seasons or different challenges.

And so for me, that was hard because I was like, you can't tell

me what to do. You don't even know what I've been doing for two

years. But not that I was doing anything bad. I was doing ministry.

But, you know.

But.

Yeah, yeah, but. Yeah, but anyways, that's just kind of my perspective.

Yeah, no, I think that's a really good, kind of just like, interesting

way to segue into mine, because I had a similar experience.

When I was 19, I moved here to Texas from California to go to school.

And that put me. I mean, I had already been away from my parents

for a long time, but then to do it for school here in America

when they were just in California, it became a time, it

was a season for me where honoring them was obedience. Yes.

But there was also times when I disagreed and I was like, well,

I'm here in Texas, you're all the way there in California. I'm

going to live my life. But I, I did, I really did heed their wisdom,

their experience. Like I would call them often and be like. And

I think that was my way of honoring them. I was like, yes, I'm

independent and I'm living my own life here in Texas. I even, yeah,

we'll get there once we. I'll explain. But I, it really was like

I am choosing to honor them by living according to the wisdom that

they give me. So I would like constantly, frequently call them

and be like, how do I do this? How do I do that? And because they

wouldn't necessarily tell me, like, you need to obey in this certain

way. But it was, here's some godly wisdom. And then it was choosing

to honor them by listening to that Wizla.

No, that's good. Yeah. I feel like I feel similar to both of you.

Like, I went for college, I moved to Dallas to go study at DVU

whenever I was 18 and then I haven't been home since. And then

like whenever. And then my mom remarried when I was in high school

and so like it, there was just like a lot of transition that just

made it a little easier to disconnect. And I think like through

trial and error, my mom and I don't always see eye to eye, but

I think I understand her in a lot of ways because like, she raised

us in like really hard circumstances. It was just her with

three girls. And so I think I have a lot more respect for her.

And I think out of that respect and love and like low key

admiration for her, like I want to, I, I think I, I just get

convicted whenever I disconnect from her too easily and

don't involve her in my life. Like, I think parents ultimately

just like, I don't know, I'm not a parent, but like, I think they

ultimately just want to be involved in their kids lives, you

know, even as they're adults, you know. But that being said, like

whenever you look at Bethany right now, sorry. So I'm sorry, I'm

trying to make this like, but like whenever you look at Bethany,

like do you see her as a baby or do you see her like, you know,

you see it in movies, like whenever you look at a child and

Well, I, I think.

There'S a, there's a love and, and a care for her where she's my

daughter, you know, I'm always going to run to the rescue anytime

I need to. Right. I'm, I'm always going to be there. But I don't

see her as a baby, especially because as she has grown, she, she

continues to show how he, how she's mature, how she makes decisions

that are good, how she is able to care for herself in so many different

things. And so as you, I think as a parent, you watch your children.

Right. Of course you're trying to see if you see, if you, if you're

able to see that they're doing things that you were hoping they

would do, you know, that they would be productive, that they would

be respectful to others, that they would be. In my case, I, I wanted

to see my kids being in love with Jesus and serving the Lord and,

and so when you see some of these things happening, it's, it's

like, oh, okay, it's happening. Right. You know, it, I'm

seeing the fruit and I'm seeing maturity. And so it just builds

more trust. So I don't, I don't think I see you as a baby.

You always be my daughter. It's hard to see her sometimes differently

than, you know, she's still my daughter. She sees, she's still someone

that I'm, I'm always kind of like, do you need something?

Yeah, yeah.

Can I help you? Do you need some of my wisdom? Right. And it.

Not in a bad way. Yeah. It's just I think that, you know, a lot,

a lot of young people, they, they have the desire to become independent

adults and I think that's a good thing.

Yeah.

And in a way, you know, sometimes you're like, okay, please

don't tell me what to do. I'm a grown up and all of that. And your

parents mean well, but sometimes they, they just, you know,

stick their nose or, or they try to help.

They want to help.

Yeah. And it's just this desire to see you succeed and, and

sometimes we think we have it figured out and we haven't. We're

still learning.

Yeah.

But we think we do and we want to pass on to you what we think we

know is great.

Yeah. I remember one time, this is not related, but like, I

remember one time Bethany was telling me something that she was

walking through and I don't even remember what the context was,

but I remember like give, because I had walked through something

similar and I was giving her my insight and I was like very aggress

about it, like, I was like, this is, like, what you should do.

Like, I've been there before. Like, and it ended up pushing her

more away because she was just like, I. Like, I don't know. And

so, like, in my desire, in my heart, was to, like, protect her

from, like, the pain that I walked through in the same situation.

Like, it doesn't always come off that way, you know? So, like,

do you feel like that could be.

Yeah. You know, I've Learned with all 3 of my kids becoming adults

now. I mean, My youngest is 19. I realize that the more I come

to them with saying, you have to do this, or it's usually not well

received. And so I've learned to come and say, can I help you with

something? You want to hear what I think?

Yeah.

What would you like for me to do? How do you. Like how you. Sometimes,

you know, they'll come to you for, you know, a question, and then

you want to give them every answer of. So, you know, and they

just want one thing.

Yeah.

And so I. I try not to be, like, either pushy or necessarily

being a. Know it all. But I'm saying, how can I support you?

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. What about you? What do you think about?

I don't know. I'm trying to gather my thoughts. Yeah. I mean,

I agree with what both of you are saying. I think I was just thinking

about how I'm very, like, stereotypical, like, firstborn child.

Want to be hyper independent, want to, like, do my own thing, want

to, like, I'm very much like, try to be mom to my siblings, even

though that's not my job, but that's just older, oldest sibling

type of thing. And I don't. I don't like asking for help. I also.

But I also like being the person that fixes things. And so

because of that, I have. And I've realized this lots in, like,

the last couple years, just that I don't really, like, expect,

like, how you're saying, like, I want to help you. I don't. Not

that I don't think I can. I just don't feel like I should be

asking you because I feel like I should be like, I'm an adult now.

Yeah. I should be in a dip, and I don't need to ask for help.

So when I do ask my dad for help and he's like, yeah, what do

you need? I'm like, oh, my God. But it's not that, like, that

door has ever been closed. It's just almost like an expectation

of, like, I Don't know if it's just the world or, like, people around

you that you have, like, that's an expectation, but it's like,

it feels like we have to have everything figured out where at the

same time, there's, like, your parents want to be there for you.

And so it's just like, it's so interesting just to hear that perspective

because I, like, know that, but I don't always believe that because

I feel like I have to have everything figured out myself because

I'm grown now.

Yeah. You know, and I think. I don't know. Speaking for me as a

parent is that you never stop loving your kids. You know, I mean,

when they born and you're. You go crazy. You're nuts about this

little baby. And the more they grow, the more you love them and

the more you love them. And now neither adults. And they have

their own mind and they have their own decisions, but you still

love them even more. And so you never mean anything bad for them.

But I don't think there's anyone in this earth that will come

to your aid or help you or to listen to you with the same amount

of love, you know, that your parents. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully that's

the case, you know, for most people.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Whether they're. Whether they know how to fix things or whether

they have the tools to do things. There's a love there. Right.

I. I love that you're talking about. There is the love, even if

you don't even have necessarily the answers. Like, I.

I experienced that. I mean, I am a father, but more so I'm just

speaking about my dad and his availability to me. Like, that was

one of the biggest things that I experienced was my dad was in ministry

for 17 years. I'm still doing ministry. I mean, you know, but he

was a pastor of a church for 17 years. I'm coming hot out of Bible

college thinking I know everything, you know, And I just

remember sitting down across the table from him, trying to tell

him, like, here's how I'm going to do ministry, and here's

all these things. And, like, some of it is new to him, some of

it was old to him. But on the things that he knew he wasn't overbearing.

Like, he wasn't like, oh, yeah, I know it all, you know, and

the things that he didn't know, he was still very, like, humble

and like. But it was like, for me, the biggest thing that I took

away from him was availability and love. Like, kind of like we just

like, for Me, it was like, to know that my dad was there and then

me also wanting to have my own independence and like, exercise it,

but then just knowing that I had somebody to fall back on, really,

for me, was huge. Yeah.

Growing up, so to have that support. Yeah, I agree. And I, I

don't know, it just got me thinking about, like, whenever you

do become an adult, sometimes you do need to set boundaries. Like,

I think my, my mom had a lot of expectations of me whenever I

moved to Arlington that were just really hard to meet. Like, I

was like, mom, like, I can't, like, I can't, I can't spend like

two hours a day on the phone. Like, I don't, I don't have time.

Like it. And, and then hating myself for like saying that. But,

like, that was just the season that I was in and that. And like,

after, like a lot of conversations about it and she was

just like, just really honest of, like, I feel like as your mom,

like, I'm low key, entitled to that time and, and I, part of me

agrees with her, but then the other part of me is like, what do

you mean? You know, like, and so it's just like, I don't know.

So as a parent, like, how would you feel? Like, what is your

perspective on that? On something like that?

Everybody's different, you know, everybody. Some, some parents

are very needy, some parents are not.

That's true.

Everybody has a different personality. Yeah. Of course. You

want to hear from your children. You want to know they're

doing okay. Yeah. You want to get a little, a text or a photo or

something. When Bethany was overseas, we would get her every

once in a while. She would FaceTime and we would go nuts. Oh,

here's Bethany. You know, we're all excited because like I

said, you never stop loving them. You, you want to know they're

doing well. You want to know? And you know, I, I, I got married.

I, I lived with my parents until I got married. I was 24 and

I moved to Texas immediately. And so here I am thousands of miles

away. We didn't have FaceTime back then. This was the 90s. So we

had long distance call, 10 cents a minute. And, and it was hard

to have a one hour phone call, you know, and so I would try to call

my parents every once in a while. But I know it was hard for

them. It was hard for them not seeing us, not hearing from us. And

then you get busy. You have your own life and things. But there's

these people over there who are dying to Know, how are you?

Where are you?

Are you doing okay? Because you, you don't stop caring for your

children just because they're gone.

Yeah.

Just because they grow up doesn't mean that you stop being

concerned about their well being.

Yeah. Any thoughts?

No, I'm trying to process.

Yeah.

I think I also have a hard time. Like, I said, I was super hyper

independent, but I just, like, I don't know, I'm very easily, like,

in my own world and don't reach out. And it's not out of a

place of like, I don't like you, I don't want to talk to you.

I just, I'm like, not thinking about it. And I. My mom is very similar.

She loves to hear from me and wants to talk to me all the time.

And I'm not good at it, but, you know, it's hard. Parents are

different and, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, and it. I think that personalities and people have different

ways of, of handling things like this, you know, I have a great

relationship with. Relationship with my sister, but

she never calls me. I call her and then when it's been a month or

two months, I go, let me call her. And she's like, oh, yeah, I've

been meaning to call, but. And so, but, but we know this and we

accept it. And it's like, I'm the one who calls. She answers. But

if I wait for her to call, then I never hear from her.

You know, and pause. I just have to say something. I hate phone

calls, like, more than anything in the world. Like, if you

call me, like, well, I'm not gonna answer, like, so call me twice.

And then, and then if I. And then if I, if I do answer, like,

I hope, like, not that I hope you're dying, but like, I hope it's

something like, yeah, like, I just text me, man. Like, I'll get.

I'll answer you probably immediately. Whereas with a phone

call, you're gonna have to call me a couple times before I answer.

Like, I just, I don't know why. I just hate them. Like, I. I

think it's the ambiguity of it. Like, this could be like, whereas

with Marco Polo or a voice memo. Like, I know this is gonna

be like five minutes. I know this is gonna be like, like, but

the ambigu. Yes. I don't know what I'm signing up for. So, like,

I think that's like my control issues. But, like, I hate phone calls.

And that is like the biggest hurdle that me and my mom had. Like,

whenever I moved away, was just like, I detest phone calls,

Mama.

It's generational.

Yeah, I think so, too. And like, that was what she was explaining.

She was like, it's generational because you.

Have to understand, I come from a generation where we. We didn't

have text, we didn't have email, we didn't have Marco Polo.

We didn't have a message with a video.

Yeah.

We didn't have color id.

That's correct. You're just answering the phone.

Like, color ID was invented when I was graduate high school,

or at least it became available. And so. And so this is.

You know, you just. The phone rang and you're like, oh, I wonder

who is it? You know, and then you just.

That wouldn't be me. I'd be like, I'm not answering that.

There was an excitement about this mystery call.

That's crazy.

And then.

But that makes sense.

You just pick it up. And. And so we come from a generation that

just need to talk to someone, just pick up the phone and call.

And that's something that. We just got used to it. Yeah. And so

now testing for us, because we come from a different. Texting feels

impersonal. It feels like if I'm texting you, because it's not

that important. Right. And so. So it's just. It's. It's different

upbringing.

Yeah.

No, you're right. You're right. Well, what about ex. Like,

you guys don't have to air out your business, but, like, what are

some examples? What are some examples of, like, things that you've

learned and, like, how to have healthy conflict or, like, how to

put, like, respect. How to respect or put down healthy boundaries.

Yeah.

Like how. What are some things you've learned? Bethany, I'd like

you to go first.

How do we have healthy conflicts?

The first thing that I thought about, which is so random because

I don't think it's, like, a big conflict, but I think it's a

good example. When I was in England, I. I was 18 when I moved

there, and I turned 19 there. And when I turned 18, it was this

whole thing because I. Since I could think about, I wanted a tattoo.

And my mom, since I was very little, had always been telling me,

like, promise me you'll never get a tattoo. Because she knew that

if. Yeah, because she knew that if I promised her when I was

little that I wouldn't do it because I was super obedient, and

I was like, no, I'm not going to promise you, because I know I

want one. And so, like, all the time growing up, she'd be like,

promise me. Probably since I was, like, 2 years old, but as soon

as I could speak, I was speaking. At six months old, I was

speaking until as soon as I could open my mouth. But she.

I remember struggle is real.

But I remember, like, driving home from school in, like, middle

school, seventh grade, mom being like, randomly, promise me

you'll never get a tattoo. And I was like, no, why are you even

thinking that? Like, literally randomly.

She wanted to make sure she was.

Like, covering all her bases. Let me get them young.

And so I remember when I turned 18, she was like, you better

not get a tattoo. And so I told her I was like, I'm going to

wait till I'm at least 19 to. As a. Like, just testament that I'm

not just doing this because I want it so bad and because I just

want to be rebellious or whatever. And I actually waited until

I was almost 20 and I was in England. And I remember I called

my mom to tell her, and she was very devastated and very upset.

You got it in England. Oh, I feel like I didn't know that. Yeah.

And so she got the word obedience.

She's like, oh, I'm out of the house. I can't do nothing.

No, but I mean, it was very helpful that I was not in the same

country. No, but I.

That was great because you gave your mom maybe six months to

get over it.

Yeah, but she did not even want to look at it when I moved back.

It was so funny. But. No, but I remember I called my mom to tell

her, and she was devastated, like. Like sobbing, like, Mark. She

did. She wasn't happy about me marking my body. She's not as upset

about it now. I think she's used to it since I have so many.

But I really just. I called her because I was like, I want to

honor you and that I'm not hiding this from you, and I have

not. I don't find this to be wrong in my heart, but I know that

it upsets you. So I want to tell you so that you know I'm not

hiding this from you. Yeah. But at the same time, this is my

decision, and she didn't like it, and she was not happy. But I

think that from conversations that we've had, she's okay with it

now because of how I approached it. And I called my dad,

too, and he said.

What did I say? I don't remember.

I remember he goes, wow, did you tell your mom? Because I said,

hey, just want to let you know I'm getting a tattoo tomorrow. Oh,

tell your mom it's the only concern. Yeah, she's crying. He was

at the office, too, so it was so funny.

You set off the bomb and then you leave and I gotta deal. I gotta

deal with them as I got, you know, I gotta pick up the pieces.

That is so funny.

Yeah. But, you know, I think it was really helpful. It was. It

was one of the first things that I felt like I did against my

parents, you know, or really like, my. What my parents wanted,

especially just being a people pleaser, being, like, so, like, submissive.

It was. It was really hard, but I was like, no, this is something

that I've always wanted. And, like, I'm not getting. I'm getting

a tattoo, like, with a scripture, you know, like, I'm not

doing anything to my body. As I've gotten more tattoos, she's less

surprised. And I don't tell her every time because it just comes

up. But, you know, that's just myself. No, that's good.

I think that, you know, again, I think generations and way of seeing

things. I mean, there's the. You can go into the tattoo debate

of so many angles to look at it. Whether the scripture says this

or that or what does that mean and whether it's right or wrong.

I think that at the same way, we come from a different generation,

you know, and when. When we were children, we. We learned what

our culture taught us. And ask anybody who's over 50 who has had

a tattoo for at least 30 years or so, and they'll tell you how people

were discriminated. People were not given jobs for having a

tattoo. People were, you know, looked upon or frowned upon. And

so I think there's a fear of what this also means to the rest

of the society and how people.

Will look at you like, what could your consequences be?

I mean, I remember even something that we talked about is,

you know, so if you're going to be a missionary, you're at a different

country. How do those people look at it from. From their point

of view? What do they think about it? Is that going to affect

your ability to be a. An effective witness of the gospel?

And so, you know, even things like that.

Yeah, yeah.

Because whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant for the person

who look at. Looks at you.

Yeah.

And just thinks about, you know, makes up their mind or has

a prejudice against. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think, like, what I hear you saying, Bethany, about that is

that you, like, you affirmed like that you respect her input.

Like, you're like, I, I. I understand, but, like, I'm. I'm not

making a reckless decision. So, like, I don't know. I guess,

like, how does your communication change with your parents?

I think. I think.

Well, you want to answer that? I mean, like, and your children,

like, how does it change?

I think your parents eventually come to terms to, you

made your decision, and you're an adult. And I have to respect her

as an adult. You know, whether I agree with her decision or not,

I'm gonna love her. I'm gonna be there for her. Would I. Would

I go tell her, yeah, do this or do that? Maybe yes, maybe not.

And so. But I'm gonna be there for her. You know, I. My dad was

not the kind of affirming parent growing up for me, and so

he was like, gru's mom. I don't know if you've seen the movie.

Have you seen. Have you seen the Despicable Me?

Oh, I don't. I thought it was a name.

Gru's mom.

Gru's mom. The mother of Gru. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Okay. Yes.

Would come and say, hey, I built a rocket. You know, hey, look,

Mom, I went to the moon. Me. You know? And so I would never get

anything that would tell me, I approve of you, my child. Right.

And so I was always trying to get my dad to say, great job. I'm

proud of you. And it was just. They never. I did, you know, and

then I. And then I, As a college student, I became a clown,

you know? So I was. I was making money doing birthday parties.

We'll get into that lore later.

But my dad would be like, man, you know, I can't believe you're

wasting money on this, on that. And then it's like, okay, look,

that. I just did this event. They paid me 500 bucks.

What?

And then after a while, it became where, like, he respected

that I was working, earning money, but I was always making decisions

that he would not agree with. And it was hard to feel like I was

honoring him while I was trying to respect him, but I was

also being an adult and trying to do things. And so I know there

is a tension there. And you can make it a healthy tension or

a very unhealthy tension, because when people lose tempers

or disagree, then you can go into saying words that are hurtful

or. Or doing things that push people away. And so that's when it

gets difficult. And the last thing you want to do is to push away,

whether it's your parent or your child.

That's good. What about y' all?

Yeah. I think when I just think of, like. Because we're talking

a lot about, like, at least for me, one of the biggest moments,

I think, when I look at my adult life, where I had to set a

boundary with my parents, was when I told them I was going to marry

Farah. Only because here's the thing. I think we started dating

in October. I go home in December.

Y' all had that quick of an engagement.

No, no, no. Like, dating and in December, so two months we were

dating or something like that. I go home.

I remember I need to marry this woman immediately.

She's the one.

Literally, I go home. I'm sitting across the table at Chick

Fil a with my dad, and I said, dad, this is it. I'm gonna marry

her. And this is the first thing he said. He said, what? You

don't got a job. You're still in school. You're like 21 years old.

How are you gonna get married? And I just said, I'm gonna do it.

But here's the thing, you know? And then he did a very similar

thing. He said, have you told your mom yet? Oh, no, I didn't. I

remember we picked her up, and the first thing he said when my mom

got in the car was, tell your mom what you just told me. So I told

her. Oh, man. She was silent for, like, that's worse.

Good. While that's so much worse, she's like. The wrath is,

like, loading.

Oh, yeah.

It was like. I don't think her brain was processing, like, what

is going on here? Oh, yeah, it was. It was. But you know what? It

was so interesting to hear her response, because it wasn't. My dad

was very logical. It was like, you didn't have. You know, you didn't

have the things that you need. My mom was very much like.

What.

Do you see in her? What are the things that make her a quality

person that you would want to spend the rest of your life with

her? Like, it was just very, like, emotional. Very, like, so.

But there. There came a point when the. The ride was done. We were

at home, and they both turned around, we parked in the driveway,

and they were just like, okay. Like, after hearing all the things

that we've talked about, are you still going to decide to want

to get to marry this woman? And I. I sat and I processed it,

but it was a moment of like, okay, I hear your wisdom, but I'm

also an adult, and I. I have Thought this through. I prayed it

through. Like, and I made the decision. I said, I. I respect you.

Thank you so much for giving me your input.

Yeah.

But, yes, I'm gonna. When I get back to Texas, we're gonna continue

dating, and I'm gonna marry this woman. And you know what? Guess

what? I graduated, I got a job, bought a ring, and voila, here

we are, married. So it did take a bit of, like, okay, I receive

it. I respect it, but here's the boundary, and I. I move forward.

And I think that's the thing of, like, we're not giving these

people, like, a formula of, like, how to receive or how to, like,

receive feedback. Like, will you, like, mean it? Like, say it,

but mean it, like, like, truly accept what they're. Take what they're

giving you, like, the wisdom. Because, like, the reality is, like,

our parents are wiser than. Than us. Like, you know, and I think

sometimes it's easy to forget. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like.

Like. But that's what I was saying.

Like, they are gonna have to say.

We all knew it.

It's like, you can think it, but you don't have to. But, like,

they are, you know, they are wiser than us. They have, like, more

like, you know, my mom is 30 years older than me, you know, so,

like, she has, like, decades of experience and of life wisdom

and experiences over me. And, like, just because it's not. The

wisdom isn't, like, attained through this context or this culture

doesn't mean it's not still wisdom. So, like, when she does tell

me something, and I immediately am like, no, I don't

receive that. I'm gonna do what I want. Like, I think the Lord

has helped me grow in, like, truly receive what she's saying,

like, and even if you disagree with it, like, wrestle with it of,

like, like, is what she's saying something that I'm disagreeing

with just because I don't agree with it? Like, is there any

truth that I can receive to it? But, like, mean it. Like, I receive

what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. I've processed

it, and I'm still gonna do, like, you know, like, I think that

there's Be genuine in it, like, because, yeah, I mean, they

are. Why they are years ahead of us, and. And they have more life

experience than we do.

I think as the older person in.

The room, I have something to say.

Well, I've been in both sides. I think you guys are young, where

you've only been on one side, you've been on the side of. I became

an adult and now I'm making my decisions and I have to deal with

how my parents like or not or support or don't like my decisions.

And I think I was there and I made some decisions. Like, I went

up to my mom and I said, hey, guess what? I feel the Lord's calling

me. I've applied to seminary, I'm moving to Texas, I'm getting

married, and I'm, you know, I'm going to live 3,000 miles away

from you.

You dumped all that on her in the same sec in the same city? That's

crazy.

I dumped all that in my parents, my sister, you know, my.

Everybody. And so I love that they, they were having, they were

having a hard time with it, but. But I wasn't thinking of, you

know, whether they liked it or, you know, I was moving on. But,

you know, thinking back now, on the other side of this, I'm. I

have a daughter who's 18 and is telling me I'm moving to England.

And that's very hard. I was like, I'm 24.

Emma's moving to England. Yeah, right.

And so, and so you, when you're on both sides and you're like,

ah, I get, I get how my parents were feeling. I mean, you

have kids now and your kids are doing everything you say, but

when your kid sits down with you and says, I'm getting married,

and you go, wait a second, what? Right? Because, you know, your,

your mom was talking, your dad was worried about whether you're

gonna be a good husband, the logistics. Your mom was worried about

whether she's going to be a good wife to you.

Oh, wow.

I didn't think about that. Yeah. And so parents have concerns,

and sometimes it's fears or, you know, I don't want to see you

suffer the way I suffer. I don't want to see you, you know,

face the same consequences. You know, there is a wisdom in, in

heeding advice. There is a wisdom in, in listening. You know,

I think that you can go to the proverbs, and there's so many proverbs

that's going to tell you the foolish person does not heed advice,

does not listen to the wise. But it's hard. It's hard because

once you feel like you got this and you're grown up, it just

doesn't feel great taking somebody else telling you what they

think you should do. But that's not only true to parent, children,

relationship, but that's true to Your boss that's due to even friends

or, you know, like, you made an example earlier where it's just

hard sometimes to take it from someone else to tell you you shouldn't

do it that way. Yeah, you should do this. Or I think you should

think about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I kind of want to ask you, too, something,

but, like, you know, whenever you. Marty brought up a good point

about, like, whenever you have, like, a child, like, Farah,

Marilyn was pregnant with a baby, like, first baby, but little

Bethany, little Kai, you were like, realizing, like, the Lord is

bringing together life in. In her womb. That's like, part me, part

my wife, like, part me, part Marilyn. Like, what was the kind

of the thought process that you had or were there any, like,

epiphanies that you had of, like, this life is coming into the

world, and the Lord is entrusting me with shepherding and

discipling this child. Like, what were kind of some of the thoughts

that were going through your head? I'd love. Because I feel like

that would just help children get perspective, too. Of, like, my

mom, like, loved being a mom. Like, that was like, her favorite

thing in the whole world. And so, like, I feel like that would

be a question that I probably should ask her. Like, what were.

I don't know. What are your thoughts about it?

Yeah, my initial thoughts when we found out we were pregnant, obviously,

this is joy. You know, it's like, man, it's exciting. It's man,

I want this child in my arms and I want to love this baby. But

on the other side, as a husband, and we were both, you know,

in the workforce, so full time, full time, she's telling me,

hey, I want to stay home and take care of this baby. So there's

this joy, but there's also this, like, there is a fear. But

it was the weight. I felt the weight and the responsibility to

say, hey, it's not just my wife now there's a living, breathing

baby who needs us to take care of them. She's going to nurture him.

But I also need to provide the home, the money coming in, the clothing,

food. Like, there was such a weight to it. But I think when you

pair the two together. For me, when I look at my son, it's like

I really am giving so much of myself to my kid to not only grow

up physically and mentally and emotionally, but like Jen, like what

you said earlier, my hope is that my kid would know Jesus and

love Jesus just as much as I love Jesus. And that is the kind

of Love that we have, that I've had towards my. All my sons.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. I would say specifically with the first child, you. You just

don't know what's coming. You. You. What? I'm.

I mean, a star is born.

There's a train heading your way, and it's gonna hit you, and

you have no clue. You don't know what it feels like. You're excited.

You're happy. I'm gonna have a baby. You're thinking about names

and how do we pick this crib? And we got this thing. And, I mean,

this is just. It's just joy, and. And then this child is in your

hand, and your brain is going, what in the world? And. And everything

is changing because all of a sudden, you don't even think the

same. All of a sudden, your mind goes to, how do I care for my

baby? How do I provide for my baby? You go to the store, you know,

you no longer go to look at the things you like. You know, you

go to the baby section because. Because your mind is now

on this creature. But I think that, you know, I was 24, 25. I don't

know. And it was just. You're still maturing. You're still learning

life yourself.

Yeah.

And so I don't think you realize, depending on how old you

are, when you have kids. I don't think I realized at that moment

exactly. So many responsibilities. Oh, so many things.

You know, I've learned a lot more about parenting as I go, and

later on, reading books or even as a pastor meeting with families

that I go, man, I wish I knew this when. When we were getting pregnant,

when, you know, I think the only thing we read was a book that

Marilyn was reading, and I would just kind of read with her

and kind of hear from her, which was about the pregnancy, you

know, how your body's changing, what to expect the next

month, what to expect on the. On the last few days, and. But when

it comes to parenting, raising your children, you know, in the gospel,

I wish somebody would have sat down with me and given me even more

advice on that. On. On being a role model or just, you know, just

living out the gospel to your children so that they cannot hear,

just see it all the time.

But even in that, like, just hearing you say that, I feel like

somebody could have sat me down and gave me everything and just.

You would have taken it. Like, it's. Because it really is. Like,

you're saying you're already still growing up. You're probably

sleep deprived You're. You're. You know, and as much as you like,

one thing that we've always said, me and Farah to each other,

is like, when are you ever going to be ready? I mean, that's.

Honestly, that's kind of like how we got married so fast is why

we. How we had kids.

All you can pray for is for an obedient child. Brother.

Amen. And pray and be present and. Amen. Yeah.

No, And I say how blessed I am because she's an obedient child,

or she has been, or she's just wonderful. Yeah.

I have so much I could say about sweet Bethany, but I'm not

gonna cry on this podcast because that would be too much. Anyways.

Okay. I. I think another. I have a couple. Like, I have, like,

two questions that I really want to ask, and I think one of them

is, like, how does your position in this relationship, like,

being a child, slash, like. And a parent, like, being a child.

Being a child and parent, like, how does that inform or, you

know, wrestle with your relationship with God? Is there any

correlation to that? Like, I think speaking from experience, like,

I didn't grow up with my dad involved in our life, and it really

affected my relationship with God because God is like, the metaphor

for God, or not the metaphor, but, like, one of the names he gives

himself is Father. And so, like, how do you have a relationship

with, like, your heavenly Father if you have such a broken

or, like, absent relationship with your physical Father? And so,

like, that was something that I really had to overcome. And, like,

I've seen a lot of that even in my marriage. Like, how. How, like,

it's hard for me to receive love from people that I do love,

even though I love it. Like, even though I enjoy it, like, it's

hard for me to receive it because, like, that foundational

relationship wasn't there in my formative years. And so, like,

my mom tried to overcompensate as much as she could, but, like,

the reality is, like, you know, you look at. I could. I. We

could make a whole podcast on, like, the fatherlessness of the United

States and, like, how it's affected culture and crime and economics.

Like, we could do a whole episode on that. I feel. I've done

a lot of research on it. I feel very strongly about it. But

all I had to say is, like, I think it was a real big hurdle, and

I think the Lord, you know, did break that down. And I have.

And I think the word that the Lord gave to me to help me overcome

a lot all of that was like, your first relationship with a dad

is me, and I'm the perfect father. And that was just like, where,

where I used to feel like I was missing a piece or, like, broken.

I have a very sweet relationship with God because he

is my first father. And then he gave me, like, bonus dads, like

Luis Rivera, who's like my adopted dad. And like, even my, my

father in law, Carlos, like, Carlos's dad, like, I have such a

sweet relationship with him too now. And so, like, the Lord,

that was the Lord in his kindness, like. And so all that to

say is, like, I feel like it did affect me. But are there any

specific ways that you feel like your relationship with your

children or your parents, like, have affected your relationship

with God?

Wow. I mean, there was a very popular song in the 90s, a Christian

song, that the singer said, lord, I want to be. I want to be

more like you, because he wants to be like me. And it was a

dad singing, saying, you know, I want to be more like the Lord because

this little boy is watching me. He wants to be like me. He wants

to. He wants to grow up to be like me. And so it's a big responsibility

that I'm to model. And I think that those are things you start realizing,

right? Like, you know, the way you talk, your kids are going to,

you know, your kids are going to do what you do, not what you say.

And parents, we don't have it all together. We're still growing,

we're still maturing. You know, some people at 18, 19, they're

super mature in their faith and their, you know, they have a,

a healthy habit of spending time with the Lord. And some people

are 27 and still don't have that. And so I think that, you know,

there's a wisdom that comes from walking with the Lord daily

and the Holy Spirit leading your life that would make parenting

so much easier. But sometimes you don't have that wisdom.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, Bethany was incredibly obedient. And then, and

then my son was born, and he's the complete opposite from her. You

have this girl who's, you know, very smart, very witty, obedience,

submissive. But then you have this kid who's just wild. And, man,

he can climb too. Like, he can hang on, hang off from ceiling, wall

as fans. I mean, and. And he, he was maybe three, four years old.

We went, we went down on this mission trip to Mexico. We took our

whole family and we stayed with missionaries who were, who lived

there. And this missionary had like three or four Kids. And these

kids were like, so well behaved. And so, and I was like,

how does he do? I mean, how did they do that? I couldn't believe

it because here we were hanging out after the day of work

and we're just kind of, you know, trying to relax a little bit,

and we're playing Uno cards or we're doing something, and this man

would look at his clock and it was like, I don't know, 8:30. And

he would look at his teenage kids and go, guys, it's time to go

to bed. And they would immediately stand up. Okay, bye.

We'll see you later. The immediately that was not me. I would

have been like, but dad, it's only 8:30. You know, these kids did

not even utter a disagreement. They were immediately submissive

and, and obedient. And yet my, my son was in that same room and

I couldn't get him to sit down in a chair. And I remember one time,

you know, he, he's, he's, he's just running towards the street and,

and I'm like, you know, trying to run out there to stop him. And,

and we, we used to count, okay, Juan, come over here. 2. And

then he would come and one lady came, said, brother, if there

was a car coming, you're not going to get to three. You know,

you need to teach him to obey you right away. And I remember that

one of those days we were there, this pastor, missionary, he

was trying to correct Jerry and Jerry just kicked him. And I

went over, I apologized, and then I said, how do you do this right?

And he says, you have to correct him. Them. You don't correct

them. You know, you have to, you have to correct them even though

it hurts you. And then, and then he says something to me that

changed my life. Like he said to me, the first example of obedience

that your son has is you. If your son doesn't know how to obey

you, he's never going to learn how to obey God because God's going

to call you to hard things. But if you're used to saying no to

authority, then it's going to be really easy to say no to God.

I think that was the beginning of probably the hardest year, year

and a half of my life. Parenting a child that had to be

disciplined every day, multiple times a day, and it would

just break my heart. But I don't regret it. I am so proud of

my son, where he's at now, and the young man that he is, the leader

that he is, how the Lord is using him. The calling in his life.

And I think the Lord used that testimony of that other family to

teach me. The first example of obedience that your children have

is learning to obey you. And if you can't teach them that, if

you can't discipline them, then they're not going to learn to

be obedient. Because one day I'm going to call him, or one day

I'm going to have purposes for him. And if he's used to saying no

or just doing whatever he wants, he'll do the same.

Yeah, that's good.

And just to give testimony that, like, my little brother, he

just finished his freshman year of college, and he has been

dreaming about being an engineer since he could build Legos.

And in the middle of his first semester, like, the Lord has changed

his heart and he changed his majors to ministry, you know, like.

And that wasn't easy for him. But even just that testimony of,

like, how, like, my brother is listening to the Holy Spirit and

listening to what the Lord and obeying, even though that's hard.

But, yeah, that's just really cool to.

See because, you know, I think that ultimately, all of us, when

the Lord calls, when the Lord says, this is what I want, we should

say, yes. We shouldn't say, but God, I think we all should obey

immediate obedience. Right. My wife loved using the phrase delayed

obedience is disobedience. Right. Because you're. If you're

not obeying immediately, you are disobeying. And so, praise God.

That's a good word. That's a good word. What about y' all?

I'm just receiving it. I'm like, as a. Honestly, write it down.

Said, I'm gonna talk to Finn when we go.

You know me too well, because I ain't gonna lie, man. As soon as

you said that, I was like, oh, man, my second born, he's crazy.

He's a little wild. And. But hearing you, like, the moment that

you had with that missionary family is the moment that I'm having

right now. And these are things that I've heard, you know,

I've heard. Yeah, but like, to sit in a room with you, Rafi, to

hear how you did that, like, how you applied it. Like, I already

feel. I haven't even done it yet, but I feel the weight of, like,

oh, man, it's going to be hard to go home to Phineas. Yeah.

Say no, your kids to. Or. Or to discipline them constantly four,

five, six times a day. And. And. And they. They're not happy

about it. But I tell you, we. We got to the point later on where

I could be anywhere, I could say, hey, come over here and sit

over here for a minute. And there was no question, there was

immediate obedience. And I, I don't, I don't say this to proud

to be prouder to say, hey, you know. No, it was just hard work.

It was really hard work. Consistency. You know, when a parent

says to a child, come over here and the child doesn't come over

here, you can't say it again. You have to get up and go get him

and bring him until his brain realizes I don't have a choice when

my dad gives an order. Right? Because right now in their brain

they have multiple choices. And so that's just. It sounds good.

That's good. What about you?

I don't have kids, but I have been just want to tell you guys.

No, I was just, I've been thinking about it and I like have

been just walking through. I don't know what this next season

of my life is holding. I don't know what God is calling me to, but

just feeling very confused about like what it is and just try

to be open. But at the same time when I feel like God is saying

things, I'm like, no, I don't want that. I but been thinking about

this podcast and preparing. I don't know, my perspective is I don't

have kids. But I was going to say I have lots of adopted nieces

and nephews. Shout out to the McKay's to the hatchers, all my little

babies to the surrogals. I have all these like kids that I am

invested in their life and most, for some reason people trust

me with their kids all the time. And I'm basically a single

mother and I have learned like parenting is really hard and like

they don't ever want to listen to you and they don't ever. And I'm

like, don't go in the street. Hey, don't grab the emergency brake

while I'm driving, you know. But I just, that has really like

helped me like all these stories my dad has been telling,

like I have heard before but like trying to see the Lord's either

correction or like guidance as like, hey, he's not just trying to

like reprimand me or restrain me or like hold me back, but like

the Lord really sees like all the, all these different things that

I don't understand. Like that I think I know because I'm grown.

But it's like an America doesn't know why I'm telling her,

hey, don't run into the street when, you know, like, or like, look

both ways. Because she does. She's three years old. You know,

she doesn't know these things. But, you know, like, I don't know,

I just, it has really like helped me to feel like, okay, God,

like, I don't understand, I might not even like it, but I'm gonna

trust you. Like, even if it's like a small step of just going on

a trip or if it's just saying yes or being open to being like talking

about my, my story of like being in England to people, you know,

but it is hard. It is hard because I am so sinful and strong

willed and all of the things.

But I think that's what makes it the hardest is that we are all

sinful. We don't like to be told, we don't. There's some pride

that we have to deal with all the time. Again, whether it's obeying

parents or somebody else, it's just hard. And she was giving the

example. Sometimes a parent can see the danger in something and

a child doesn't. And you're trying to. And in the same way a

parent can see the danger into an adult decision. Even though when

you're 25, but because I'm 50 something, I can see a danger that

you don't see yet, it's hard to get you to understand that I can

foresee something that you don't. And how do I do that without

making you feel like I'm telling you what to do or I'm just

sticking my nose in your business. So it's a hard balance.

Yeah, no, that's good. And I think, I guess, like, if we could

close on anything, I, I, I was gonna say it one way, but I guess

I'll say it this way. If you could say anything to like Bethany

as a child, like, imagine she's like, she's like a little baby,

like, or like a toddler. Let's imagine baby, toddler Bethany. She

was blonde by the way. It was crazy. But like, she was, what would

you say to her? And then I'm gonna ask you the same thing about

like your kids. Like what? Like, if you could say one thing.

Well, and like, I want you to, like, I don't know, like, maybe even,

but like, what would in even you, like, what would you say to

your dad or your mom? Like, and I'll try and say, like, what

would I say? Well, like, yeah, just I don't know. If you could leave

them with one thing, what would that Be.

Well, that's hard to think. I mean, all of a sudden you got to

think about that. But now say I'm proud of you. I just, you know,

it'll. Everything's going to be great. Keep going. I think that,

you know, looking back, I. I don't have many regrets or things

that I can think of not doing with my kids. I mean, we. I feel

like I've tried everything I could and I'm really proud of them.

And so, yeah, I. I would say, Bethany, you're gonna turn out okay.

You know, we are great. You're gonna be great. Great woman.

That's so sweet. Okay. What about you?

Yeah, I would just talking to my boys if I were to say something.

I mean, they haven't lived much life, you know, but I think,

oh, they are. Yeah. I would tell them one, that I love them and

that they don't have to earn my affection for them. That it doesn't

matter what they do, right or wrong. Like I'm always going to be

there, I'm always going to love them. And obviously, you know,

there's. There's consequences for things you do, but that doesn't

change your identity. And the reason I would say that is because

this is something I'm learning right now in my relationship with

my heavenly father.

Is that, yeah, brother down rather than change mine, Ditto.

But it is, right? Like, yeah, I need to know. Cuz that is how the

father looks at me. He. He calls me his son and I. That is my

identity. And I don't have to earn his love or affection, but I

still do that. I still live that way. And if I live that way,

if I don't tell my sons this, they're going to live this way. So

that's what I want to instill in them.

That's great.

That's deep, brother. I'm having that moment now that you had

a minute ago. Seriously. Praise God. What a good word.

You deserv them.

We got to get together.

Yeah. What about you?

What little me is saying? Well, like what.

What would you say to Rafi and Marilyn?

Rafi and Marilyn? Yeah, I'm getting that tattoo. I'm sorry. Oh

my goodness. That's so funny. I'm trying to hold back my wheeze

laugh. Oh my God. I don't know. I feel like I would want to.

Say.

Listen to me like I am. I feel like I. Because of how I grew up,

I was just very like very. I've always been very self aware

and very like. I don't want to say, like, wise beyond my years,

but I feel like I've always just understood life and was like,

hey, this is happening. And they were, like, not dismissive,

but I've just always just. Just, like, know things. And so I

feel like if they, like, why would they listen to me? 1, because

I was a little kid, because I didn't know anything, but I feel

like I understood more than they thought I did. And I feel like,

not that things would be better or different, but I think

that our relationship could be just a little bit different if, like,

we actually, like, communicated better and listened

to each other. Not in, like, a bad way, but I don't know. I just

feel like that's what I would say. But he did. They did a good

job. They did a good job.

I, I think what I would say if I was like, I'm imagining baby Becky

and imagining, like, what I would say to my mom. And I think,

like, because of, like, the atmosphere and the circumstances

that we were in, she just kind of raised us to be very aware of,

like, the threats that were in the world because of things that

she walked through, because of things that we had already walked

through as a family. Just, like, kind of like, be careful, be

cautious. Like, be aware. Like, be, you know, make, make yourself

small so you don't get, you know, hurt or whatever. And I think,

like, I don't know. Not that I would want to challenge that, because

that's, again, like, the Lord has used it, but maybe just, like,

it's okay to feel safe. Like, I, I, I don't need to look over my

shoulder every now and then, like, or every second. Like, I think

that that would be what I would love to do. And then, like,

I guess I last thing is just, like, if you, you know, I think we

all have, like, sweet relationships with, you know, our

parents. Like, I have a really great relationship with my mom. My,

my, the one with my dad is like, all right. But, you know, there

are some people that don't have that, like, have a healthy or

a good relationship with either parent. And I guess, like,

something that, like, as, as me and Carlos have, like, you know,

been vision casting for, like, what our future could look like with

children. Like, I think one, one piece of hope that I have is,

like, my children don't have to. To have the relationship with

their dad. Like, the one that I have with my dad. You know, like,

Carlos is going to be a great dad. Like, he's going to be a great

father. And, like, I have hope in that. And so, like, That I don't

have to repeat the cycle. And so, like, if you're, you know, if

I don't. I don't have to work seven jobs to provide for our family

the way my mom did. Like, I can be emotionally, like, present

with my children. Like, and so, I don't know. Like, I think I.

I just want to give people hope. Like, not that you have to

have children to have hope, but, like, that you. You don't have

to repeat the same story. Like, you can be present with your

community, you can be present with your friends, with your family.

Like, you can restore a relationship that was once broken.

Like, there is. There's hope you don't have. Like, what you were

given doesn't have to be what you end with. And so, yeah, I. I

think that that's. And I. I think, like, what I would say to

my children, like, whenever they do come to this earth, like,

it's just like, I. Like, you're. I don't know. Like, there's.

There's hope beyond what you can understand because of Jesus.

Like, and I feel like I didn't. I don't feel like I had that

as a child, not because my mom didn't try, but just because, like,

our circumstances were just really hard. And so I think I just

became very detached in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, just, like,

I don't know, instilling hope in your everyday life. Like, can

I honestly say that I believe that God has my, like, his best for

me. Like, even if I don't understand, even if it sucks, like,

do I believe that? Yes. And even when my flesh doesn't believe

that, like, I can ask the Lord to give me grace to believe that.

And so, yeah, like, the. The relationship you have with your parents,

like, if it's great or if it's not, like, your relationship with

God still needs to be better, you know? Like, I don't know. Like,

I think, like, the Lord is worthy of all trust and all. Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

Any final thoughts?

Well, you know, I think, you know, the Lord is the answer.

Yeah.

I want to. Paraphrasing a Bible verse where it says, you know,

even when you're. When your parents are not there anymore, when

your mom and your dad can't be there anymore, the Lord will be there.

Right. I think that, you know, because of sin and brokenness in

this world, families are not perfect. They're broken. There's

brokenness in families. And even though, you know, God intended

family to be this unit where, where he's glorified where a married

couple model the gospel to the children. A lot of times that doesn't

happen. And so there's brokenness. But the Lord restores.

Right. I think the Lord restored me when the day I was able

to forgive my dad because he was not what I wanted him to be or

what I expected him to be. But the Lord showed me he didn't have

it. He couldn't give me what he didn't have. He wasn't a believer.

He didn't have a dad himself. But, but look at, look at what's

happening now. How, you know, I'm the first in that generation

of the different generations, I'm the first one who is not an alcoholic,

who, who is married and didn't get a divorce, who is following the

Lord and serving the Lord. And so there's, there's chains that were

broken that don't. That my, my kids did not see what my dad saw

and his dad saw. And so because of the Lord, because of what

God can do.

That's right.

There is hope in any family. You know, you may come from a broken

family, but your family doesn't have. Your next family doesn't

have to be a broken one.

Yeah.

Because the Lord and heal.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was going to say something very similar to that. I'm

glad that you said that. Just like even in my mom's family too,

like my mom has broken so many generational like sin and all these

chains. Like both my parents, like through my dad's dad and then

my mom's just parent. Both of our parents, like, should not be

the amazing parents and like how loving and like supportive and

I mean every parent, I mean, you're always going to have situations

and families like, yeah, like just because you're, it's. You put

a bunch of broken sinners in a family. But like the beautiful childhood

that me and my sibling had, like siblings had shouldn't. Like

if you looked at all the, you know, behind the scenes footage of,

you know, like, yeah, it's only the Lord. And I mean, Becky

and I talk about this all the times, like when we have kids, we're

not going to traumatize them the same way our parents did. We're

gonna find new ways to traumatize them. But parent man,

like, and I think, like, we're just gonna do something else to them.

But it's like slightly less every generation because the Lord

is continuing to change. You know, me and Becky and you know my

dad and, and so, yeah, just getting to see first fruits of like

through my life of how much the Lord has already broken change

is just encouraging.

No, that's good.

That's good. I don't got much to add. I just think it's a great

episode.

Glad to be here with you.

Yeah. And you know I think like parting. Parting word is I'm

gonna go call my mom in a little bit. Like I know me being

convicted, like I'm gonna call my mom. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna die

to self and ignore the fact that I hate phone calls. I'm so brave

like. But call your parents. That's our parting isn't. No, no,

no, no no. Call them I guess.

Please do. Please do.

Thank you guys so much for listening. We hope you guys enjoyed

this episode. Very heartfelt. So I'm a little teary eyed right

now, but anyways, we're going to ignore that and move on. Thank

you guys so much for watching. We'll see you later. Peace.