S3 E6: The Money Episode: Learning to Steward Your Finances

Hey, everybody, it's Becky here and Zer. And we are here for

another episode of the podcast, and we have two very special

guests here with us today. If you guys would introduce yourself

to us and, you know, if you'll have, like, a specific relationship,

if y'all will also say that, too, that'd be great. Yeah.

Well, my name is Chance Coleman.

And I'm Tesea Coleman.

And we're married.

And we actually had a specific topic that we invited them on, and

I had heard kind of a lot of. We've had conversations. Tessie actually

did my makeup for my wedding, and we talked a lot about this topic

whenever we were doing it. And I've heard how you guys have shepherded

Yale's community group in this. And so I just kind of wanted

to. We just wanted to have a conversation about money and budgeting

and student loan debt for those who have it, and. Yeah. And

so I just kind of wanted to ask, like, I. I guess I can start

with just personal experience. So. I didn't grow up with money at

all. We were kind of. I don't want to say broke, but that's the

only word that comes to mind at the time. And, you know, I think

in a lot of way, inherited wealth is a thing, I think. Inherited.

I don't know. Not poverty, but inherited, like a misunderstanding

of money and finances is also inherited. And so didn't have a whole

lot of understanding of money or what it's like, and so had to

learn a lot in it as I became an adult. Earning money and spending

money at the same time. Like, what does school look like? What

is living? What does up renting look like? What do groceries

look like? How often can I go out for fast food? And I just kind

of learned how to live paycheck to paycheck. Like, I knew

my limits, and I went all. All the way up close to the line and

sometimes went in debt to go over it. And then, you know, the

end result was just. Yeah, just feeling overwhelmed and burdened

by it. So that's just kind of my take coming into this. But I'd

love to hear more about how you guys, like, maybe were introduced

to it. Kind of what that looks like.

Yeah, absolutely. I want to start off this conversation by saying

that we are not financial advisors at all. You know, like,

we're not financial advisors. We're not professionals. So anything

that we're going to share during this time is just our experiences

and our stories. We have seen God do incredible things and bless

us in ways that we couldn't have anticipated in the midst of

some hard situations. So we're not here to say this is how you have

to do it or this is what everybody should do. We're just here

to explain, hey, here's our story and what we've walked in.

And we're still learning.

Yeah, we're not.

We're not millionaires, so. And we probably never will be. But

just the process of. Yeah. The things that we're learning and still

learning to today and. But still seeing the Lord's fruitfulness

even in those years.

Yeah, right.

And then just the excitement of, like, what could it look like

to continue to be faithful in this area?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we.

Or you can start with like, your. Was it our personal introductions

to many.

Yeah, yeah.

You can go first.

Yeah, yeah. I grew up in a situation where we never, like, from

my perspective, we really never really, like, needed to worry

about money. Money was never really an issue. The only reason

why I wouldn't be able to go to like, a concert or to go, you

know, to a soccer game or something like that would be because

my parents didn't want me to for either because it's not a good

part of town or, you know, something along those lines or. Or

like, we didn't have time to be able to go do those things. It

wouldn't be because of finances, you know, So I grew up

in a situation where I never really had to worry about finances.

Growing up, both parents had, you know, double income, household,

great jobs, and so never really worried about that. Then I

went to college, and right after college, I worked for a church

that the employees of this church got their income through support

raising, meaning that we needed to go out, start relationships

with people and in churches and stuff like that, or talk to people

that we were already connected with and ask them to invest in what

we were doing for the sake of the kingdom. Right. And so with that,

you know, my. I grew up with my parents not really struggling

with finances. To me now asking people, would you invest in

me? And what God is doing in my life? Which is. Which was a pretty

stark contrast to what I grew up with. You know, going from, like,

never really worrying about food to, like, you know, meal prepping,

like, little baggies of, you know, of chicken that we would, you

know, Ziploc and throw in the freezer, you know, like, that was.

So I went from, like, not really struggling at all to then

being in a place where, like, I needed to. I had to be really wise

with my finances. I was put in a Position where I had to learn what.

What it looked like to not walk in foolishness with my. With

my money, or else I just. I wasn't going to make it in what I

felt like God was calling me to do. You know, if finances. If

I didn't figure my finances out, then it was going to get in

the way of the kingdom work that God was doing through me. And

that. That felt unacceptable to me, so was kind of thrown into

the fire and had to figure things out pretty quickly. And, you

know, my parents were in the position that they were in because

they were wise with their money, you know, so learned wise

saving and spending habits as, you know, growing up, which then

transferred to being really helpful when I was in a situation

where I wasn't making a lot of money. And I think they always taught

me, like, contentment, you know, no matter what they were, you

know, really, they didn't have to tell me no a lot, but they did

just to be able to teach me those that, you know, give me the

character traits that would be okay with. With being told no or

not having everything you ever wanted. And so that benefited me

in a position when I was in a position where I couldn't have anything

I wanted, you know, when I was in a position where I couldn't just

go grab something, couldn't just go grab a bite to eat, couldn't

just go, you know, go to that concert that I really wanted to go

to. You know what I mean? Because it was. Because it wasn't

available to me. So that's. That was my experience with how I

learned about finances. Yeah.

Yeah. Mine is a little bit different. We just. Very different

family backgrounds. So in the future is interesting putting those

two perspectives together. But my family originally from Brazil,

and when we moved to the States, it was interesting because

it was very much the concept of like, hey, we're coming to America

so you can have these opportunities that you probably wouldn't

have back home. And so whether it was from my parents or for me,

I was very little, but in my brain I was like, I need to make

money and I need to work really hard and I need to be the

best at school because my parents gave me this opportunity

of coming to America. And so, yes, yes. And so I worked really

hard and tried to be the best so that I could go to school. And.

But the idea of money before, before I went to college was I just

need to. I just need to make money. And so I started really young

at like 8 years old, just working around our neighborhood and

we were fine. Like we were average middle class and it was North

Dakota, so it was low cost of living. But I just, from a very young

age I already had financial scarcity, fear. And so my parents

were okay with it and. But they did tell me, like, your number

one job is school. So it was very much retroactively. Looking

back retrospectively, I was putting it on myself as well. But

I knew I wanted to go out of state and so went to college out

of state. And I think that was a season where as a parent, you're

trying to help your child be very independent and make their own

decisions. But how do you balance that with, oh, an 18 year

old girl who wants to go out of state for college. And that's

a huge financial decision. And so my family also didn't talk about

money. So I didn't have the education I needed before making

that huge financial decision to go into that much debt. And so

moved to Washington. I learned a lot about money going through just

what I went through with student loans and made a lot of decisions.

My first year of college was very expensive, so many loans. But

the decisions I was able to make while in college made my last

semester like five grand compared to my freshman year was

44 grand. And so I had to really hustle and make decisions

and work with the school and figure out what I could do. And there

were highs and there were also lows and there were seasons of no

employment and couch surfing. And the way I view money now is really

formed from that experience. I had about $120 for the month for

about seven months. And I just really relied on the generosity of

friends, places that I could stay. And it was a really hard time.

But the Lord still used that for how I see money now and then

after that, being able to have a job and getting married and support

raising. So even when we were support raising, I still had the

pressure of like, I need to make money. I need to, you know,

get, get us out of this debt that I put us in that he said yes

to. And yeah, so it was really cool to just see how the Lord framed

how I viewed money going into support raising. After a season of

not a lot of money, I'm like, oh, I could, I could make it. You're

telling me I have $20, I can make that last. Praise God for $20.

And so, and then we've just kept growing from there, learning

together more about money and now being in a position where we

don't support raise and I'm not couch surfing Anything I feel

like we have from the Lord is a blessing.

Yeah.

And all of that to get to this place of gratitude. Gratitude. I

want to steward this. Well, how do we. And just be open and honest

and kind of like what you mentioned earlier. We've talked to

a lot of people in our community group about just being

open with our experiences with money and what we've learned to hopefully

help them too.

And lift the shame curtain. Yeah. Like, I think it's so big.

Like, I kind of want to. I want to hear what you have to say,

but I also kind of want to piggyback on what you said, like,

about, you know, student loan debt. He said yes to this kind of

thing. I. I went through the same thing, or maybe not the same,

but like something similar. Whenever me and Carlos started dating

and I had. Well, we were friends for a long time and I had

mentioned, like, I wanted to go on missions. My first exposure

to missions was when I came on staff and like I started working

with missions and I was hearing about all these amazing things

and I felt like the Lord planted that in my heart. And I was

like, period. Yes, send me. I'm ready. And then I was like, oh,

frick. Like, I have. Like, they're not. Dang it. Like they're

gonna. Like. And Richard had. Our missions pastor had told me about

like some organizations that you can, like, you know, they'll,

they'll make. They'll help you with that. But anyways, and so like,

kind of like he had already been exposed to it. But once we started

dating, I literally, in my mind, I had so much shame about my

student loans. Cause I felt like it talked a lot about my identity,

about my value as a person. Like, I'm like, you're, you know,

you're hitching your wagon to this. Busted. Like falling apart

one. Like, I'm like, your future is already written out for

you if you marry me kind of thing. And again, I agree with you.

Like, I don't. I didn't have a whole lot of the knowledge. And also

like, I, I worked in higher education whenever I was getting

my, my degrees. And there's not a whole lot of education about

like, this is like you're sending like little 18 year olds

to basically sign off on mortgages. You know, like, it's like,

it's. There's not a whole lot of education. And I remember whenever

I work, I was always very honest. I was like, look, homie,

like, you can't do this. Like, like I would go to a community college,

come back like with scholarships, like, you know, and,

and I'm not saying that you can't go to a four year program.

Like, that's not what I'm saying. But I think having your eyes

wide open into making a decision like that is super important.

And I didn't, I didn't have that.

Having the wisdom to see your options and being okay with them.

I feel like, I don't know about you guys, but when I was in

high school school, it was like, you can't go to community college.

Like, that looks pretty bad. And it's like, no, that's the smartest

route. And I wish I would have done that.

Absolutely. 100. Yeah. The amount of money that I would have

saved to be able to start off and my freshman year of college was

horrible. Like, you know, I, I had fun, but I also, man, I crazy.

Like, I, I remember walking into like my Poli Sci 103 class,

like during dead week, and asking my professor, like, what would

it take for me to pass this class? You know, what do I need to

get on the final? This is how bad freshman year went. He said,

chance, man, listen, if you got a 200% on the final, you'd still

be failing my class. Don't even worry about it, bro. Just like,

so I would have loved, I would have loved to do that.

Yeah.

At a community college instead of a four year university, you know,

would have loved to learn that lesson there instead of learning

that lesson with thousands of dollars on my, on my shoulders.

Yeah, no, I, I agree. And I, I think. And again, like, to those

people that have already, they're like, dang, I should have

heard this four years ago. I'm already in this whole, like, I'm

like there. I think we're, we're not, we're not just talking

to like the high schoolers that are about to. On the precipice,

but also like trying to give those that were in similar boats.

Like, there's hope. Like, there's. You still have choices,

you still have options. Carlos still married me, you know, like,

I'm like, period. Like, if race got it. Remember the conversation

is. It was our premarital. And the two chapters I was really anxious

about were the chapters about money and sex. And I was like, in

my mind, I was like, he's like, whenever we have those conversations,

like, it's, it's over. We're not gonna make it past that. And

we got to the, to both chapters and we were talking and

talking about them, and I remember, like, I had like the Summation

of all of my debt. And I had it on a number. And I was like, this

is. This is. And almost like, presenting it to him like, this is

my dowry. Like, this is what you're going to have to, like, pay,

like, to marry me kind of thing. And he, like, didn't even

flinch, bro. He was like, okay. Like, I don't understand. Like,

and so just even, like, that was very. And I immediately started

crying, like, because it was just, like. I felt like it was just

like. So it was built up in my head to be like, I'm worthless because

of this. Like, or I have all these issues because of this. And

then, like, even talking it through with him after the fact of,

like, student loan debt does not take away from your value in

Jesus. Like, it does not. It, like, you are. It is not like a death

warrant on the rest on your future or, like, it's none of that.

Like, it's just something that you'll walk through, but it's for

a season, too. Like, it's not permanent. So. Yeah. Anyway, I just

wanted to talk about that.

The way that Tessa presented it to me when we were engaged was.

Or it might have even been dating.

Because I'm like, don't get on it.

Don't propose to me. Yeah.

Like, this is your outcome.

Yeah. That's the way that she presented it to it. Like, if you

want to break up with me right now, I completely understand, you

know? Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah. I would not blame you

if you did. Yeah.

Because he has to consider himself at that time. He's a single

young male, and he did not have debt. But then he was like,

but you have enough debt for both of us.

Yeah. It's like, if we both had debt and come together. Yeah.

Right, right.

He's always at that.

And the way Carlos talked about it, he was like, I think of

it as something that we'll tackle together. Like, you know,

that we'll get to do together. So. Yeah, I'm. I'm glad that we got

to talk about that, but zur. I'd love to hear your thoughts about.

In all of it. Any of it.

There's a lot. I mean, my upbringing is a little different,

so my parents came from the Philippines, and then I was born,

and they came for the American dream.

Yeah.

But my dad was a pastor, and then my mom was actually more of

the breadwinner of the family, but both of them worked extremely

hard to the point where I never had. I. All my needs were met.

Like, I didn't get everything I wanted, but all my needs were met.

Right. Like I wasn't ever in want. And so, but what I saw from

them modeled for me was extreme generosity. Yeah. Like to

the point where, like it. If you know my family, it's kind of

crazy. My dad didn't take a paycheck from the church, so he worked

graveyard shift and my mom worked graveyard shift so that way

they could provide for our family. And all my dad did was full

time ministry. Ministry while at the same time at night working

graveyard shift.

Yeah.

And it was to me and then to see his generosity in the way that

they give towards people, the way we opened up our homes, the way

we.

Yeah.

Sent money back home to the Philippines. Like there was just

sometimes it was a little unwise in my mind. But for them it

was like they were just trying to be obedient to the generous heart

that God was calling them to be. But then they kind of in a way

protected me when I came into high school, college years because

they just wanted me to get the cheapest education. So they shipped

me away to the Philippines. My dad was like, ah, go to go to school

in the Philippines. And it was incredibly cheap.

Yeah.

I come back, I couldn't finish education there in college and so

I still wanted to finish seminary. And seminary is cheap compared

to anything else. So my, my mom just gave me a deadline. She

was like, if you can finish between this date, it was like two

and a half years. I'll pay for everything. I said, yeah, yeah. You

know, take the 18 hour semesters, all this stuff. So I didn't

first have to really learn about money and like budgeting and

ownership of it or rather stewardship of it until really I

graduated college, I got my first job. And this is at the time

I already said, I'm gonna marry Farrah. So it was like I got

my first job and I was like, oh.

And I did.

I had to figure it out quick. I was like, what do you mean? I only

get this much if I work 40 hours. Oh, I gotta work overtime

to make more. And it's like, it was so confusing. But at the same

time, God in his grace just has sustained us because I took a

lot of different odd jobs here and there.

Yeah.

And praise God, like before we had Kai, you know, Dink. Right. Dual

income, no kids, was really helpful for us in the beginning because

we were still learning or still fiddling with consumer debt.

But it wasn't crazy because she didn't have any, like, student

loans. I didn't have any student loans. So it was just like

really just learning how to manage consumer debt for, for us.

And so then after having kids, it was really just for us. It was

more continuing to practice the things that we've already learned.

Yeah.

Because there were seasons where it's like, we get lazy and

then debt would rack up. But then it's like, okay, we know how

to get out of this. We have the wisdom for it. We just need to

stick to the plan.

Yeah.

And that's kind of been my.

Yeah. Exposure.

Exposure to it, I think.

Also, I kind of want to talk about, like, practical steps, like,

not like, you know, all of us are married. Like, you know, so like

practical steps, like for married couples, young married couples,

but also for like singles. What did budgeting look like in those

single years for you? Or things that you like, you don't have

to be married to put this into practice kind of thing. I think for

me, an. You just have to be self aware of your weak points. Like,

and so like, I. We were literally. Okay, random question,

pause. We were talking about this earlier. What is the dumbest,

most expensive thing you've bought? Like, this is just. We don't

have to talk deeply about it. I just kind of want to know. I just

want to, like, lighten up the mood a little bit. But, like, what

is the.

That we just spent stupid amount of money on?

Or it could be like a theme of something. Like, for me, I talked,

I was thinking about it and I was like, I don't really, like, like

to spend money. Like, I mean, I love to spend money, but on a bunch

of little things. Like, I love to buy stupid little things. But

if I could like, collectively sum up all the amount of money on

fast food I've spent over the course of my life, that would for

sure be higher than anything else. Yeah. For me. So. I love fast

food. I love it so much.

For me, it's so Farah. I love my wife. But over, over the course

of us being married, the theme for me has always been video games.

So, like, I always justify. It's a hobby. I love it. I do it,

you know, but there's. I don't need a Switch and an Xbox and a PlayStation

when I have limited time. And then I buy the game because I'm like,

I'm going to play it eventually. And then I play the one

game that I play every single night. And she's just like, you really

didn't need to spend the money. Like, if you, If I look at

my bank account, there's probably a lot of misjudgment in

what I purchased.

Marty. Marty just asked if you could stop attacking him. Just kidding.

What about you?

A couple years ago. You know, we've been in this, like, get out

of debt, like, grind for a while now, and we're like, there's

no possible way that we could enter into debts. But I'm pretty

impulsive, you know what I mean? And so, like, there would just

be a date where it's just like, what if we move? You know,

what if we buy a new house, you know, or there will be a day

where it's like, oh, my gosh, there's this. There's this, like,

truck that, like, is this much. And he's like, james, your

car is fine. You know what I mean? But there was.

Drive that thing to the ground.

Yeah, right. But there was one. There's one, like, summer, a

couple of summers back where I'm a big sports fan, and there was,

like, a big soccer tournament that was happening, and it was El

Clasico in Dallas. Like, Barcelona versus Real Madrid. You

know what I mean? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, we did. Yeah. We've got

great pictures from it. It was a lot of fun. But it was one of those

where it's like, we just had these conversations about getting

out of debt. And we looked at her bank account and we looked at

the ticket prices, and we're like, we can do that little button

that says affirm next to the purchase that says, do you want to

pay it off in four months? We're like, yes, I do. I'm so sorry.

You know, and so that was one of the moments where we did that

and we were like, yeah. We looked at each other and we were

like, that game was so much fun. Never again. Like, we are never

doing that again, you know? Yeah, it was one of those. Yeah,

it was one of those things.

And then we know that the FIFA World cup is coming.

Yeah, that's one of those where we were like, yeah, right,

right, right. Yeah, we. We doordash for that. We Uber for that.

That's what we do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was mine. I don't know

if one comes to mind for you.

I think for me, it's the princess budget line.

Oh, yeah.

I. And we've pulled back again. We're doing, like, Dave Ramsey

style craziness to pay off my student loans in this season. But

before, I was like, I had nails, I had lashes, I would have

my hair done. And it's not. They're all wants none of them are

needs. But now I switch to the smaller purchases of like, press

on nails, lash strips. And so I'm sure all of that coming together

adds up as well.

Yeah, yeah, I have, I also have that in my budget. And I'm like.

And I think there are some months where I'm like, I would love

to get a new set, but I just can't, you know, like.

Yeah, it's one of the things I want to like. One of the first things,

obviously, besides upping our giving, is to re. Reinstate the princess

budget line.

So let, let's talk about that, because you were asking about budget,

how to practically do that, you know, you, you said like, you

know, after generosity, of course, that's, that's a principle

that we have. So we, we build out our budget. That's honestly,

number one thing is make a budget. You know, if you don't have

a budget, if you don't know where your money is going, then it's

so easy to get behind and to fall. You know, you get towards the

end of the month or you get towards your paycheck and you're

like, wait, where did all my money go? You know, because you're

not keeping track of it. You run out of money and then you need

to buy groceries or this bill comes out and you're like, I guess

I got to put it on the credit card, you know, so when you know

what is happening with your money, when you can track all those

expenses, like whether you're single, whether you're married, whether

you're dating, like, it doesn't matter. Like, make a budget

wherever you're at, whether you, like, are a college student

and you don't have any income, but you just have money for things

like, or you like, you know, are millionaire. You know what I

mean? Like, having a budget is so extremely helpful for that. With

our budget, a principle that we have, whenever we, we look at

our budget, you know, when we first created our budget, whenever

we reassess our budget and we reassess it often, you know, we,

we look at it and we, we set it and we look at it afterwards to

decide, like, is this still working for us? Is this, is there

anything that we need to change? We don't just set it and

forget it. We set it and we monitor it often. So when we set

it, whenever we reassess it, whenever we get raises or we get

promotions or new things happen that are taking, like, bills,

like, go higher and so we need to reassess our budget, the number

one Thing that we always look to increase first is our generosity

budgets. And the last thing that we touch when we need to, like,

reevaluate, like, what do we need to cut back on is our generosity.

Like, it's the first thing we add to and it's the last thing we

cut. So it's always the first thing. And it feels a little bit

untouchable because of that. In that generosity budget, we have

like our tithes. You know, we have our tithing that we do. We have

the budget line that we have to, like, support missionaries or

support people doing ministry in different contexts. And then we

just have a budget line that's called Other Joy. So those are for

instances where, like, we hear that a kid, you know, we get a letter

that says a kid needs to go to camp, you know, and is looking to

fundraise, or it's a sweet friend's birthday that's coming up

and we want to buy them a gift or something along those lines. Like,

we can pull from that other Joy budget to be able to give to

things like that.

Why is it important that it be like, first and last? Like, like,

why is that to safeguard it? Like, why is that important to you

guys?

Yeah.

I think kind of what I was saying earlier with how we view as

believers, we view like, we know and understand that it's not

ours in the first place, it's the Lord's. And truly going through

those experiences of saying, this is a gift.

Yeah. Right.

And when we had moved down here and we're no longer support

raising, a lot of our prayer time was, lord, do not let us get

stagnant.

Yeah.

Help us feel the weight of the fact that we'll be making more money,

which means that we can give more money and let that be the first

thing. And so I think because of how much grace and fruitfulness

the Lord has and the mercy of just the experiences that, that I

had before we were married and when we were support raising of how

the Lord still made things happen with money.

Yeah.

I'm like, I can't with a good conscience just take all this money

and spend it how I want. And the fight against materialism and

consumerism is definitely still a thing. I have a cap where

in my brain, I'm like, oh, that's really. I want to get that

thing. Or like, they're asking for that much or like, I don't know.

So that's still like a constant thing. But I would say the.

The biggest part is just knowing and truly believing. Like,

it's not Ours. And if we continue to be faithful.

Yeah.

It's not for the possible reward we could get. It's just out

of our love and obedience for the Lord.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Support raising really teaches you

that, you know, it really, it's. Your income is quite literally

not coming from, like an organization, but it is coming from

individuals that you are praying to the Lord, like, God, connect

me to people who, like, provide for me through people who

believe in what you're doing in me, you know, So I. It was just

so obvious. It makes it so apparent in that situation that this

truly isn't mine. I didn't earn this. This was given to me by

the Lord. And so now just carrying that over to my job now,

where I do get a paycheck from an organization, it's still the same,

like, whether it comes from an organization or a collection of individuals

or from a company or whatever. I didn't earn this. God freely gave

this to me, you know, and he just did that because he loves me,

you know, so because of that. Yeah, the generosity is just a big.

Is a big priority for us in our budget line. Yeah.

Other people's generosity is how we were able to live for years.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

And even with that, that's not to say that our other budget lines

aren't used for generosity. I mean, just thinking about, like,

our. Our budget line that goes over, like, our house bills, you

know, like our mortgage and our electricity and our water and

all that stuff. Like, we also use our home generously for. For

the sake of our community and for the sake of God getting glory,

you know, inviting non believers into our home, inviting

community into our home, having people stay with us when they

need a place to stay. My sister is staying with us right now.

Just, just moments like that where we can say, like, God, not

just this generosity, budget is stuff that we give to you, but

this whole budget line, you get to. You get to tell us whatever

you want to do with this, you know, like, all of these budget lines

are from you and for you. So. So, yeah, so. But there's that specific

budget line that we always start with when it comes to adding

stuff into our budget, adding money into our budget, and we never

touch or it's the last thing that we touch when it comes to, like,

take away. Taking away from our budget.

So this is a little bit more practical when you guys go and sit

down and you do your budget. Are you guys using an app? Are you

doing pen and paper or Excel spreadsheet?

Yeah, we started with an Excel Spreadsheet. Yeah. And it was really

helpful. A guy at a church, at our old church developed a spreadsheet

that helped you track stuff, but you had to manually input stuff

into it. We pay the premium subscription for the EveryDollar

app now. We love every dollar. We love the every dollar. There's.

There's other apps that work just as fine or just as well, but

I. It is worth the money for us monthly to be able to pay for

the premium subscriptions. So that I. Because if it's up to me

to be able to input every expense that I see on, like, I'm.

Yeah, I'm just. It's going to fall through the cracks. But the

fact that it is connected to the bank account and it drops into

the app itself is just so helpful.

We're paying for the convenience, and we're okay with

that.

Yeah, you're. Because you're setting money as side for the convenience.

Like, it's not like you guys are like, yeah, like, we can do it.

We'll find the money somewhere.

I was like, there is a budget line for that. And that's in and

of itself is saving us money and is allowed by allowing us to

budget in the way that we do. Yeah.

Yeah. I. And I think too, we were kind of talking a little bit

about, like, credit. Credit versus cash kind of mentality. I

know that. Here's another thing. I love Dave Ramsey. I think,

like, his curriculum is great. His apps are great. I remember listening

to one episode of his. One of his podcasts about studio student

loan debt. He's very, like, aggressive. Like, like, just like

attack. And I. I don't, like, I'm not the audience for that. Like,

I. I get turned off to buy that. And then, so. And then also

it, like, it's kind of, like, scary. Like, I'm like, oh, my gosh,

you're right. I'm like, I'm the worst. Like, you know, so I.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I don't. I don't think that kind of communication is for

everybody. Sometimes it is, but, you know, you do you. But I

think he. He has, like, very strict, like, no debt ever. Is that

feasible? Is that normal? Is that like, something we should all

strive for or. I just want to hear Yalls thoughts about it.

Yeah.

Yeah. For me. So we did Dave Ramsey's. Well, actually. So funny

story. I think I should. Did I share that with. Anyways, here's

what happened. Yeah. One of the gifts that her dad gave me when

I don't know if he knew how bad we were in consumer debt. But

he did give me the total money makeover book.

That's like giving the gift of like, a stick of deodorant to a middle

schooler. You know, it's like, hey, you might. You might need this,

bro.

He's like, I know for a fact.

You'Re married to my daughter. Here you go. You know, take care

of her. But it really was like, I read that book. I just ate

it up. Like, it was. I agree with you. His tone is very, like,

straightforward. You got to be sick and tired of being sick and

tired. Like, I hear his voice, like. But I think his principles

are solid.

Yes. Yes.

And so for me, we, we did the baby steps. So we aim to save. Like,

even just the first baby step of saving a thousand.

Yeah.

Seemed hard at first, but it was like, it was the intentionality

of giving us a goal and then working together. Yeah, absolutely.

And then all the consumer debt, like, over month after month.

So, yeah, for. For me, the way we just live by it, it's worked for

us. I understand. Not like credit cards and all that stuff.

Like, I literally don't have a credit card anymore now. It's kind

of weird, though. I ain't gonna lie. Dave Ramsey, please forgive

me. I still have access to my credit card. I just don't have a

physical right card. I. I keep it for safe of mine, but I also have

an emergency.

Fund, so it's like, yeah, right. Yeah.

I don't know. But it did help me for sure. It helped me and Farah

getting rid.

Of the access of it. Yes, I agree. I think. And I think that's

where the self awareness piece comes in. Like, it's like, if you

know you're going to be tempted. I had one of my old roommates

in college, she had her credit card number memorized. And I was

like, I. I was like, I'm so glad I can't do that. Like, praise

God. Because if, you know, like, who. Who knows what crazy decisions

I would have made now for her, she had the discipline to like, not

use it every time. But like, I, I think like removing the access,

like, remove it from your Apple wallet, cut up the card. Like,

it sounds stupid, but, like, if you're finding that you're like,

continuing to add more to yourself, like, get rid of the easy

accessibility of it.

Keep.

You're obviously going to keep the account because you're going

to still pay on it if you still have money there. But yeah,

I think for me, that was really helpful, like, of just removing

it from My immediate access.

And that's not to say credit cards are bad. Like Dave Ramsey.

Dave Ramsey believes that. And I, like you were saying with the

self awareness piece, it's really important. His tone actually

really works for me. And I'm like, you're so right. I'm second

tired of being second tired. Like, I'm ready to go. Like, it's

been so intense because I'm just like, I'm good. It's almost

like a game now with my student loans. I'm like, how much

more crazy could I be with just chicken and rice with salt and

pepper for the rest of my life?

Yeah.

Hopefully not the rest of my life.

Right, right.

For this season. But for those of you that are maybe like single

or you have roommates and building credit, you can get a car

loan, you can get a mortgage, you can get an apartment, you just

have to jump through more hoops if they can't check your credit

score. And so if you are young or if you're in a position where

you're trying to build up your credit, if you can take this, I guess

just like a little pro tip, if I can put that in there. If, let's

say you have a whole bunch of roommates, see if you can take at

least one of the bills in your name. So that they're either your

roommates are you're paying it all or your roommates and splitting

it and they're sending the money to you via cash app or whatever.

But that will still help build your credit if you are someone who

having the credit card wouldn't be too much of a temptation

to use it unwisely. Yeah. But that way on the side, you can be

building credit so that when you move out or you're trying to

get a car or whatever and they want to check your credit score,

you've been making, you know, consistent payments and you've got

a good credit score to just help you into the next season of

whatever that looks like. So there's pros and cons.

Yeah.

But the biggest thing, like you're saying to be self aware.

Yeah. I think just like, you know, just like we talk about with

money, you know, money is not inherently evil. Right. I. I would

loop around, like credit cards and debts, like all of those things

are not inherently evil, but our evil hearts can use those things

to build up our kingdom instead of honoring God. Right. And

so, um, that's where the, that's where the wisdom has to come

in. When you approach money, when you approach a credit card,

when you approach the opportunity to get into debt, to

be able to, like. Like it says in the Psalms, where. Where David

says, seek me, O Lord, see if there be any grievous way inside

me, lead me onto the path to the everlasting, you know, to be

able to say, like, is there. Is there anything gross in my heart

that does not look like youe, that's not honoring to youo, that's

not loving youg in the midst of this, that if I step into this,

this will lead me to sin, you know, or are there sinful motivations

for me to do this? To be able, you know, that's leading me towards

spending this money the way that I'm spending it, or using this

credit card the way that I'm about to use it, or getting into

this debt the way that I'm going to get into it. It's. It's

important to be able to, one, have. Have intentional time with

the Lord, to be able to have that time, to be able to, you know,

seek your heart for him, to search your heart. Right. But then

it's also good to be in community, you know, to be around

people who know you, who love you, who want the best for you, and

give them permission to ask you personal questions and to hold

you accountable. Right?

Yeah.

No, I agree. 100. I think I viewed debt in such a, like, shameful

way that it was very isolating. And so it's like. And

I remember I had asked, like, my older sister. She. She's gonna.

I don't know if she watches it, but she's gonna hate me for saying

this. But, like, I. In my mind, like, she's like, the richest

woman on earth. Like, she. And she probably isn't, but, like, I

don't even know what she does. She. She has explained her job to

me a million times, and I can never grasp my mind around what she

does. But anyways, and she's, like, super smart with money. Like,

she probably still has her lunch money from, like, when we were

kids, like, in a savings account somewhere. Like, she, like,

is very, very frugal and very wise with that. And I remember I

had asked her for her help, for her help, but then, like, we

could never find a time to, like, get together. But there were

other people in my closer vicinity, in proximity, in my community

that were, I know, would have been willing to, like, help, but

I just didn't. It was embarrassing to talk about. Like,

and it was like, it felt isolating. And I didn't know. Like,

I don't know. And so I think I wouldn't recommend that at all. Like,

I think it's. It is isolating, and I think it. Lifting the curtain

of shame to allow people to speak into you, to hold you accountable,

and also to, like, give you wisdom on things that they've learned.

Like, these are things that I've done and steps that I've taken.

And I think I did end up, you know, being able to do that and get.

Stepping into that. And then once me and Carlos got married, like,

he's super disciplined and wise with his money, but so I think

just. Yeah, I think lifting the curtain and letting people in

is super important because you can't do it on your own.

Yeah.

And I think one example of this is, like, whenever me and Carlos,

we're talking about getting married, I. My vision, not my whole

life, but, like, probably I developed it in college, was to elope.

And it wasn't for any, like, personal reason. It was just because

I didn't want to spend the money on a wedding. Like, it was

very selfish. And whenever me and Carlos were talking about it,

like, he just was not open to it. He was like, this is something

I want to celebrate with our families and with our friends. Like,

it isn't something that I want to have, like, small. And so he.

Like, it was a conversation for us. But then I remember praying

to the Lord about it, because I don't think if you. A little bit's,

like, sinful. I don't think that's, you know, like, if you guys

decide that. But for me, it did feel like it. And so then I was

praying to the Lord, asking him from guidance, and I felt like

he was saying, like, you're preventing me from providing for

you guys. And I didn't know what it meant, but I was like, okay,

fine, so we'll do it. And so we had a really great wedding. It

was still smaller, but it was bigger. And the amount of money that

we paid for our wedding was nothing compared to, like, what it

would have been because the Lord provided through his people.

Like, we had people coming in left and right, paying for a lot

of things. And, like. And it would. And it. What's crazy is, like,

we could have paid for that, but we didn't have to. And so, like,

the Lord was using his people. And I remember afterwards, like,

me and him were talking about it, and. And he was like, had we

not been obedient, we wouldn't have seen the provision of the Lord

through his people. And so, like, even just stories like that

of, like, how the Lord meets you and provides and, you know, just.

I don't know, it just gives you, like, that extra encouragement

through community. Yeah. And so I think money needs to be in that.

Like, money. I don't know. It just. It. It doesn't need to be something

you carry alone.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, Obviously the Lord and reading Scripture, that's our lifeline.

You know, I mean, that's the thing that. That in. And spending

time in prayer, like, that's the thing that connects us with the

Lord and allows us to experience his. His presence and

his blessings and all of these things, but primarily. Right, but

you sharing that story just reminds me of Acts, chapter two,

you know, where. Where it talks about the believers coming

together and having all things in common, sharing things, and. And

because of that, nobody was in need. You know, man, that. That is

just powerful. And that's what happens when you're in community.

Like, Tessia was able to couch surf in college because we were in

a community of people who had apartments and who loved Tessia and

were like, hey, you can sleep on our couch, or you can sleep on

the bed and I'll sleep on the couch. Or, you know, just. There

was like, for. You can share this story as well. But there was,

like. She talks about couch serving, but, like, literally, Monday

night she would always be with. With some girls. Tuesday night,

she would be with some different girls. Like, Thursday night

she would be with a family. You know what I mean? Like, she had

a rotation of people who wanted her in their home because

she. They loved her and they wanted to be able to provide for

her. And that's what happens when you're in community like that,

you know, when you're in the community that you're a part of,

you have people who want to come around you and say, like, hey,

what need do you have? We love you and Carlos so much that we want

to be able to help out with the food, help out with the venue,

help out with these different things. We. You don't need to hire

this service because I want to give you this service because we

love you. You know, that's just. That's the beauty of being

in Christlike community is that, man, in the midst of needs,

like, we are here to be able to, like, either prayer for. Pray

for these needs to be met or to be able to provide these needs.

And God provides for us through community, but not only after

the decisions happen, you know, like, hey, I'm in. You know,

revealing the shame I'm in. I'm in this much debt. Can you Guys,

hold me accountable. Can you help me? But even before that stuff

happens in the first place, you know, to be able to go to your

community and say, like, hey, I'm thinking about going to school,

you know, going back to school, and I'm thinking about getting

this kind of degree at this school. What do you guys think? And

they could be honest with you and say, like, hey, I think that's

a great idea. You should go for it. And. Or they could say, hey,

it sounds like you. The school that you want to do is a private

university that's out of state and you're getting this degree that

will never pay for that, those student loans. Right. So maybe let's

step into wisdom and you do a local place or you do start with

community college first, or do you need to go to that school in

order to get this degree? Or is this degree really what you want

to do? Maybe you could do something else that, that could provide

for. For what you are hoping to get out of your career. You know,

so before and after community together, to be able to speak wisdom

and grace is so vital, so important.

I love that you're mentioning community because, like, to even

get to that place requires someone to be able to be vulnerable

enough and humble enough to then receive wisdom. Wisdom or receive

the help. But like, that's like. I just love what you're saying

because it's like, you don't get that. You don't get to a place

of vulnerability and receiving help if you don't have the community.

Like, it is. It's hand in hand because it's like, I know these people.

I know they're for me. I'm willing to then open up my life to

them and be vulnerable and then even be willing to humble myself

enough to receive. Yeah. They help.

Which is. Yeah. Crazy. No, I think that's great. Yeah.

Because you mentioned the, the shame and vulnerability, but then

the humble with the pride.

Yeah.

And I think we've seen that. We've seen both sides. I think I'm

on the side of. I didn't necessarily experience shame, but

I did experience some pride. And with my situation, I had it all

planned. Sleep in my car, you guys. Like, I. And it was my community

that stepped in. And the, the gal who was discipling me who was

like, do not be stupid. And I was like, you're only offering me

your spot because you're leading me. And now you feel like

you have to. And she was like, that's not it at all. And so working

through that with me of like, why do you want to do this alone?

Like, why do you want to make your life harder? And I was like,

okay. And so. And then. Yeah. Just seeing the Lord provide.

Yeah.

In that season was so cool. And I didn't. It wasn't necessarily

a lack of unwise decisions. It was my ambition that kind of got

me into that situation. So it's. That's a longer story. But

it wasn't that I was, like, in a lot of debt. I just had ambitions

that I was going for, and I put myself in a position where I

was in that position. So. But. And then just working through that,

too, of people saying, like, oh, I want to share this with you.

And I'm like, no, it's okay. Like, I. I really struggled on the

pride side because I didn't want to take advantage of the generosity.

I didn't so any. During that time, I was also battling through

wanting to be very conscious of what I was given and what they

were being generous with so that I wasn't taking advantage of

it. And so I think if for anyone who's ever receiving those

sorts of blessings, to just be really cautious, if. Whether it's

shame or pride that you're working through, to either way not

take advantage of that.

Yeah.

And to be able to turn it, then to have that motivation of,

like, I want to be so generous in the future with what I have.

Yeah.

And not to hold anything too close. And something we've talked

about is, like, if I can't share it, then it's an idol.

It has too much power over.

Yeah. It has too much power over me. If we can't share our car,

if we can't share our house, if we can't share our technology,

our electronics, whatever that looks like. Um, and so I really like

that you said that with the vulnerability and the humbleness,

because I think they go together.

Yeah.

I had a question. I don't know if we have time, but I just have

a question, really. About frugality.

Yeah.

Because in terms of, like. Like, money is not ours. Our money's

not ours. Like, we're called to steward. And so we're trying to

battle a culture that's all about consumerism and keeping up

with the Joneses. But I love the example you gave earlier, Tessia,

of like, hey, I have my princess budget, but I just scale

it down, you know? But, like, what does that look like in other

areas, like clothes and food you eat or what? You know, being

frugal. Yeah.

Travel is tough for us. We want to. We Want to go so many places,

and it's hard to not, so let's. Yeah, I'd love to dive into

just, like, how. How we do. It'll be quick, but, like the whole

budget, you know? You know, we already talked about how we're starting

with generosity. Right? We start with that, but then everything

else that we do, we. We figure out, like, what our generosity is

and then what our needs are, like, what our bills are. Like with

our housing, we. We talk about, like, our payments that we

need to pay, you know, all of those things. What's the minimum

that we need to pay on everything to make sure that we're

not, like, evicted, you know, to make sure that our water and electricity

isn't cut off, you know, I mean, like, what's. What's the minimum

that we have to pay for everything for us to live our life

right now? And then it dives into, like, once. You know what I

mean? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. No, Well, I kind of list that

as the needs, you know, like, we need to pay the minimum for those

things.

Yes.

So after. After deciding all of those things, like, what are.

What's our generosity and then what are. What are our needs? Then

we can look at, like, our. Our wants, like, what are some preferences?

What do we want? But before that even, we would say, like, how

do you get out of debt as quickly as possible? You know, it's

not sinful to have debts, you know, but it is wise to be able to

try to get out of debt as quickly as possible. So you can use

that money to increase in generosity in the future. Right?

And so to be able to decide, like, how much more can we pay off

in debt? And then you can decide, like, okay, we feel comfortable

with this number. We pray to the Lord, we feel good about this.

Now let's talk about how much more we can spend on, like, groceries

or something that Tessie and I have. We have, like, fun Money budgets.

We have two budget lines in there. It's Tessie is Fun Money Budget

and Chance's Fun Money Budget. So then I can spend money on video

games and Tessie isn't there. Like, you're wasting our money, you

know, because, like, no, that's. Yeah, that's my. That's my

money in the first place. And she can go buy, you know, her princess

budget length things, you know, she can. And I'm not. I'm not

sitting there like, no, we can't have groceries now because

you bottled these things. You know, it's like, we have a grocery

budget line and we have these princess budget lines, this fun money

budget line. You know, we have those things and we, we keep track

of those expenses so that we don't spend more than what we, than

what we have allotted in there. Yeah. So that allows us to

be able to pay for what we need to pay off our debt quicker.

And it still gives us a life that is full of fun things, you know,

that we can go out and do with friends or experience with each other.

You know, it's, it's, it's provided a lot of fun stuff. So I,

I would highly recommend people, you know, to try that out,

see if that works for them. And if you're doing that and you

find that you can't get through all the needs before you

run out of income, you know, you're like, man, I'm in a position

where I can't do this, then maybe there's some harder conversations

to have, you know, to talk about. What does it look like to

get some help? What does it look like to, to get a new job? What

does it look like to work two jobs? What does it look like to do

some things on the side to be able to make money that's honoring

to the Lord that you can use, to be able to provide for your needs

while also paying the minimum on these debts to get out of, you

know, so we had moments like that where we looked at our budget

and we realized, oh man, we are, we need to, we need to change

some things around. We need to spend less on groceries, you know,

because we are spending way too much on that. We need to like,

we don't need bougie dinners. Yeah, yeah. We don't need to stop

shop at Trader Joe's. We can shop at Aldi, you know. Yeah, yeah,

man. All these are saving grace.

Yeah. But what you were saying with the frugal mindset, we had talked

about it, kind of just preparing for this. But I think,

I mean, social media is the biggest thing when it comes to comparison.

Right.

And like how easy it is to just wake up and you're looking at

someone else's life already. You go on social media, why is the

first thing I'm looking at is someone else's life.

Yeah.

That's not preparing me well for my life that day. And so I think

social media, we had talked about function over the features

or function over the looks.

Yeah.

Of like, you don't need that car.

Yeah.

Especially if you're in debt. Get the two door beater that you

bought for cash for like a Thousand bucks, drive that thing

to the ground. And then someday, maybe. Maybe it's not promised

to you. None of this is promised to us.

Right.

So I think if you can focus more on the function of the thing

that you're wanting.

Yeah.

Over what it looks like or how fancy it is, I think that will really

help.

Yeah. A Camry will get you to A to B. Just like a Porsche canvas.

Like.

Yeah, absolutely. And so. And I think it's then also working through

gratefulness. I had a huge season. Like, not only social media

at the time. I still kept social media, but there was just

certain accounts. I was muting for a while because I found out that

I was really struggling with contentment and I couldn't celebrate

people. And so I was like, this is a problem. And so I just

started muting accounts because I was like, they're a friend.

I want to see them. I just hate seeing their stuff right now.

And I'm starting to realize the bitterness in my heart of just,

like, I don't have what they have.

Yeah.

And that's upsetting me, and that's not their problem.

Yeah.

And so I think, yeah. Social media was huge. Focusing on the function

over anything else, practicing gratefulness. And that could even

be like, thank you, Lord, that we were able to eat today.

Yeah.

Like, in the.

Right.

In the pit of our financial stuff. Like, thank you. And if that's

it on my list, that is good enough, because I was able to live

today.

Yeah.

And then moving on to, like, once I could work through that. Okay.

Let me work on celebrating people. Like, I want to do that well.

I want to celebrate people's wins, whether it's financially, whether

they're getting married and I'm not, or they're getting a house

and I'm not. They're investing in a second property, and I'm not.

Whatever that looks like. To truly be able to realize I can celebrate

them. I think that really showed me that I'm, like, I'm good.

And thank you, Lord, for all of this stuff.

Yeah.

And I. I think that that's, like, ultimately kind of what we're

trying to talk about again. Like, we talked. We talked about,

like, recommendations, going through personal experiences, but

ultimately, like, if. If you guys have fallen into the same things

that we have, like, that there's. There's growth from that.

Like, that doesn't define who you are. It doesn't define who you

are in Christ. So just, like, real quick to close out, like, any

final. Like, I have to say this, like, for the sake of the listener.

Any final thoughts?

Yeah, I just want to reiterate what you said. Your value is not

in your bank statement. Your value is in. In the finished work

of Christ, you know, and so because of that, you. There's nothing

that can be used here that defines who you are. It's only what

God says you are, you know, but moving forward from that, we

now get to live into that identity and live into that value.

And so if you're a person that, like, struggles either with

paying off this debt or struggles with constantly getting

into debt or struggling with, like, impulsive, like, whatever financial

thing you're struggling with, one of the fruits of the Spirit is

self control, you know, and that's something that I had to learn,

that as I sought after Jesus, like, I. I needed to spend sweet,

intentional time with him and allow the Spirit to take residence

in my. My heart and my soul and my mind so that I could bear

the fruit of self control that the Spirit is. Is bearing inside

of me. And so it's cliche, you know, and it's so like, pastor, of

course you're gonna say that. You know what I mean? But, like,

spend time with Jesus, you know, spend time in prayer, spend

time in scripture, spend time soaking in the presence of Jesus

so that the fruit of self control could be born in your life

through the power of the Holy Spirit, so you could be able to walk

in wisdom with your finances. So that's that. Yeah, that's how

I would.

Yeah. I think the last thing for me is resources and kind of with

what you were saying, taking the initiative, Proverbs has so much

financial wisdom.

Yeah.

Like, yes, the currency, you know, it says, like, take account

of your. Of your. Your flock, you know, because that was a part

of currency back then as well. And so you might need to translate

the verbiage a little bit.

Right.

But there's so much wisdom in proverbs. Go to financial advisors

that you think are credible. So we talked about Dave Ramsey, but

there's also Sue's Orsman, there's the Money Guys has a podcast.

Like, you need to put the initiative in to find those resources

and whether you are in debt or not. Like, I know we talked about

debt a lot, but you could be someone who's doing really well,

but maybe either yourself or the Lord's putting conviction on

you and, like, you could do more.

Yeah.

In the sense of, like, what does generosity look like? Maybe

you do have a vision of, like, I want to. To have cash flow from

investment properties. How can I get there? Like you need to put

in the work to do that, whether you're in debt or not. And

I think that still goes to show the initiative that it takes,

the self discipline that it takes, the community that it takes.

Yeah.

And that. Yeah. We're just, we're never supposed to do any part

of our life alone.

Yeah.

And that if you're struggling with any shame or pride or any of

the things that come with money, I think that's the root issue.

You need to start working through first and everything else

will trail outside of that. And so. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you for coming.

It was so good. Super helpful. We hope this blessed you guys. And

again, we'll see you next time. We love you guys so much. Peace

out.

Peace.

See.