On Tongues and Prophecy (1 Cor. 14) | The Sandhurst Podcast

All right.

Welcome to the Sandhurst Beyond Sunday podcast.

We want to equip the saints to think biblically about God, about life, about culture.

Yes, think.

Biblically.

Yes.

So that our faith goes beyond Sunday.

And that's we're trying to keep our eye on the target there and go, okay, we're not just trying to talk about stuff.

We do want to be able to think biblically, but that's going in a direction so that our faith does go beyond Sunday.

And then, you know, it's because as Christians, you know, church is not something we do.

It's not something we attend.

It is something we are, and it's something we live all the time.

We are the church.

We are the called out ones, the ecclesia.

And so we live in a way 24-7 that reminds us of our calling.

Amen.

So before we jump in, I want to give some shout-outs.

All right.

Shout-out number one is to Adam Richardson, the man himself, because he brought us Bo Jingles this morning.

The old Cajun flag.

Dang.

Large crits, yeah.

I gotta love it, man.

Uh second shout-up for me uh goes to on Sunday.

I referenced some high schoolers who came to our house to do this power-up club.

Little essentially it kind of became a power-up club.

Right.

It was longer.

Um, but and this was in the follow-up, like the recent follow-up, right?

So this was just this was past Saturday.

Yeah.

Um, we just invited all the people who came to our club to come back for just a little hangout.

And we also invited the team who um, like the students who were part of the power-up club team to come to our house and prep and just we didn't give any expectations.

We didn't ask them to like come and do anything other than to come and be there.

And uh so it was super good.

Um, we had some of the people who came to the club, they came.

And the students, dude, shout out to Thomas Sarmiento and Avan Mathers.

They came and I mean that there was there was no like college age captain or adult to give him a hype up kind of pump up speech.

There was it wasn't a program.

You're like, okay, run the script, run the script.

Zero of that.

Yeah.

Just them being themselves, and it was so good.

Um, and we we had a slip and slide, and they just I mean Oh man, I forget what grade Avon is in.

She'd say she's a sophomore-ish.

Um, Thomas is a senior, and um so we had a slip and slide out, they're going down the slip and slide.

Do it.

We broke out some drip, drip, drop.

So it started to feel like a power-up club as we were just kind of doing stuff.

We did a little uh freeze pop snack, yeah, and snack just went on and on and on.

Uh we also did burgers.

Um, so it was like burgers and meat.

Meat, dude, meat and popsicles.

That's that's a good day.

Yes.

I cooked my burger separately.

I bet you did for 30 seconds.

Yeah, for 30 seconds aside.

Everybody else got theirs, you know, normal.

Um, but man, uh, it was just so good.

I took so many videos because the kids were just chasing these seniors around or these high schoolers around Thomas and Avon.

And I talked to my girls afterwards and um they were just so happy about what they saw and just the fun that they had with the students.

And also, before we get off that, um were there did some of the um students who were had been at the club come and did their parents come?

Like the students or the kids?

The kid, like the kids who would have been at your club.

Yeah, the kids who were at the club and were some of their parents watching this.

And so what were the what were the parents' reactions to these to this happening?

Yeah, um the the one direct comment that I got was really a question and I referenced it on Sunday, and it was the mom going, she said, How old are they?

Uh which to me was just a question of intrigue of this seems very not normal.

Because it was just it if you looked at it, you would you would have thought everybody, including the high schoolers, are just having fun.

And I'm you know, I'm in it too, because I'm I'm having fun, and we did water balloons and you know, um we just had a lot of fun.

And it was one of those things where you uh you can sometimes gauge, all right, what what's the vibe like by how long people stay after it's over?

Exactly.

And people stayed, I don't know how much longer, you know, a good 30 minutes, uh just hanging basically until it got dark.

Just enjoying it.

Um and uh and then the kids were saying, Oh, we don't want to leave.

Can we have a sleepover?

And uh so it was just good.

I think uh relationship was established, there was uh it was deepened, it was already established, and I'm thankful for it.

And uh and I guess the big challenge then for me that I shared on Sunday was that it didn't need to be part of some greater strategic effort.

And and I'm not hating on that because that's the that's the way I'm wired to think, but it is good if if it's first Corinthians 14 verse 1 pursue love.

1 Corinthians 14:1

Like that is a win in itself.

That's right.

Um huge shout out, huge to those uh those people who came, the high schoolers who came in particular.

Awesome.

That's so good.

Um you got any uh highlights from the weekend?

Oh man, uh let me see.

I was just thinking.

So um this was senior paint your parking spot weekend.

Okay, that's the thing, dude.

Uh it was our first run at it, and uh it was it was a big run, but it was good.

So um Anna's over at South Florence, and she is a uh she's kind of a hippie, and so she did this sort of wildflower bunch of stuff, and it actually looks really good, but it takes a lot of paint.

So if you're a dad, just be ready to start saving now.

Get your feelings hurt when you go to Lowe's and they and they tell you how much those gallons cost.

Just yeah, yeah, start putting that aside now.

College fun, senior parking spot.

But we had a great time and it was it was fun.

She did a great job.

Last story for me from the weekend.

Have the I see I see the uh war here.

So I gotta tell the story because sweet D, if there's one thing that's sweet D, by the way, if you don't know, I called my wife.

Her name's Danielle, sweet D.

Okay, and by the way, as long as we're talking about that, like my wife's name is Heather, but she also goes by Ina, right?

Because in in Russia, where we live for almost 20 years, uh, you know, they don't have H or T H.

So that was a bad deal to be named Heather.

So she she literally just picked another name where you can say it in both languages, I-N-N-A-Ina.

So that so anyway, so one what one wife, two names.

Okay, sweet D and Ina.

Yeah.

Okay, great.

That's good to know.

Yeah.

Um so Sweet D makes fun of me because I wouldn't call myself a beekeeper, but I do keep bees.

Okay, well, I'm I wouldn't call myself that because I'd be pretty bad at it.

Okay, I'm not great at it.

But I'm also I hate getting stung.

And I also get stung a lot.

But when it comes to wasps, bro, that's a different story.

Bro, so when if I see a wasp and it surprises me, I will run.

Yeah, me too.

No, no, and run.

Yeah, I've gotten dinged by a couple of wasps.

It doesn't take like I've I hit a ground nest once when I was um mowing.

Oh, of like yellow jackets or uh maybe it was yellow jackets.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, but man, uh and a couple of them stung me, and I knew it immediately.

It's not like, oh, something's not kind of it's like okay.

Yeah, you get shot.

Yeah, it is, it is hurt so bad.

I couldn't help but just laugh because I was in the woods uh working on something, and I w ended up disturbing a wasp nest that was like two feet from my face.

How far were you from cover?

Uh well, I'm in the woods.

So far.

Yeah.

The woods are it's kind of hard to describe, but very hard to get through.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thick.

And as soon as they come out, dude, if you would have seen me, you would have thought that I was getting chased by a murderer who was truly trying to.

I was beat like run to tripping over thing.

I got scratches all down my shoulder because I was um and I and I didn't make it more than 10 feet before.

I was I literally was tangled up in a bunch of branches and was just trying to get out.

So battle scars from the wasp.

Not a great.

No.

Hey, all right.

Got out of out of range.

Got out of range.

No stings.

All right.

Hey, well, um, we got 1 Corinthians 14.

Man, we're coming to the end of the book.

Actually, we only have um we did the second half of chapter 15 uh in the three weeks leading up to Easter.

Yep.

So we got one more week in chapter 15, that'll be next week, and then we have two weeks in chapter 16.

I'll be doing the first four verses, then you'll be doing uh the week after that, and then we have one recap week.

So that's um four more weeks in First Corinthians.

Right.

Kind of sad, honestly, but kind of cool too.

Uh, been in First Corinthians since January 4th.

And uh but we're in chapter 14 now.

Dude, a a rich but also controversial uh passage full of landmines.

And do you know how many questions I got?

Ten.

Goose egg.

Zero.

All right, so people, we if you got questions, um, just go ahead and you can skip the hello at sandhurst.net.

Just send them straight to will.rud at sandhurst.net.

There you go.

Um, because it really does.

It helps us know, okay, how can we what questions are brewing in our people so that we can kind of scratch where our people are itching.

Yeah, because the point is not just to understand the text, but like we say, you know, live it beyond Sunday.

And so if you have questions about how to live this text, then let's let's find out what they are.

All right.

So uh let's let's jump in.

I want to talk a little bit about some of the views, the different viewpoints that people bring or pull out of or develop in response to First Corinthians 14.

And then I also want to um to talk a little bit more about this is one of the more compelling parts of the passage for me.

Um, and that was connecting conviction to worship.

Yeah.

And then um one other thing too.

But let's let's let's jump in chapter 14, verse 1.

We're Bible people, so if we're gonna talk about the Bible, we should read the Bible.

Amen.

Which is uh just a little plug for any time we're talking about the Bible, the Bible.

Uh I think in Bible college we talked so much about the Bible, like in our dorms and stuff, and what didn't happen often is like, okay, let's let's open up our Bibles and just start with what it says.

Yeah.

And uh I cannot tell you how many times, I mean, it is really crazy how many times by just seriously saying, what does the text say?

Answers so many questions.

Amazing.

What does it actually say?

What does it actually say?

Yeah.

Well, what does 1 Corinthians 14 actually say?

It says, Pursue love.

Yes, even um even in your front yard, as not just a strategic effort towards continuing the ministry of power, but just show love.

Okay, so pursue love.

Yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts.

Uh, quick note, what does the text say?

It says desire earnestly spiritual gifts.

It says that twice.

Book ends the chapter.

It says it there, what I just read, and it also says that in the last verse.

Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy.

So um pursue love, but he also wants us to desire spiritual gifts.

And so this is the last week that we're spending on um spiritual gifts, chap chapters 12 to 14.

Yep.

Uh, but to to go beyond Sunday, it's to go, Lord, um to not uh stop desiring God to uh gift me and use those gifts for the building of the body.

Yeah.

Desire it.

Yeah.

Lovingly employ our gift.

That's right.

Um, especially that you may prophesy.

For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God.

For no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy.

Greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

Okay.

So are we gonna read this like part of time, by the way?

Or are we gonna Yeah, well, I want to I want to stop there and I want to uh go, okay.

He just he just introduced these two kind of three spiritual gifts uh prophecy, tongues, and then interpretation of tongues.

Yeah.

And uh let's let's let's camp here for a second and talk about the the different views around these gifts.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um there's there's really two camps, but then within each camp you can kind of um it's more like a spectrum almost.

Yeah.

Two halves of a spectrum.

Yes.

And so the one and and I I alluded to this on Sunday, but just didn't have time, didn't think it was the the place to try to hash a lot of this out.

Yeah.

But that's why I do it.

Okay.

So uh the the two halves of the spectrum, I like the way you uh you you said that, would be cessationism and continuationism.

Yeah.

Okay.

Cessationism is the belief that the sign gifts, the m the miracle gifts, the the gifts of tongues, the gift of prophecy, depending on how you view prophecy, because there's a lot of different views there.

Right.

Uh but so I'll take that out.

But yeah, the gifts of healing, the gift of miracles, that these are gifts that ceased with the apostles.

That's why it's called cessationalism.

They ceased, right.

Okay.

Um and or cessationism, I think I said cessationalism.

Yeah, cessationism.

Um the they they ceased with the apostles.

Okay.

And uh the there's a reason for that.

I want to give some of the uh kind of biblical basis that that a cessationist would have for their conviction, but then the other um half of the spectrum would be continuationism.

Okay, so we have cessationism and continuationism, and that is simply that the the gifts that God gave during the time of the apostles, tongues, healing, miracles, that he continues to give in the same way now.

That's right.

Um so th those are the two halves.

And um and so let's give a little bit of the the biblical basis for each.

If you had a cessationist and a continuationist, we wanna always want to represent the views uh with the most sort of robust, we don't want to straw man anything.

Right.

Um so the cessationist, uh the person who's going, um, I believe that these gifts cease with the apostles.

Okay.

They're gonna go to a couple different passages uh uh for Yeah.

So I feel like we should kind of lean into this in other ways, like say, like, okay, um almost speak first person, like okay, uh cessationism is is true because and just like argue for this case.

Okay.

Yeah, we can do that.

A cessationist and a continuationist, um the this is not a core issue that needs to cause division theologically.

Like um it just doesn't.

Yeah.

This is this is a secondary, third level issue that um Yeah, so let me kind of give you a little a real world example.

So, you know, you've got uh Presbyterians uh who are typically uh cessationists.

And let's just take, you know, your charismatics or your, you know, so you got you know uh Lamb's Chapel here in Florence, or you know, these are some charismatic type churches who believe who are continuationists and they're they they believe in the sign gifts.

We fellowship very easily with both.

Like and and we all believe in the gospel, we all work together, we all pray for Florence, we all uh believe in the glory of Christ and and all the creeds, you know, the virgin birth, the death of Christ, the resurrection, the life eternal.

We all believe on really, I mean, we I hate to put a percentage on it, but it's well north of 90%, all in the same.

And so this is a like a not a gospel issue, it's not a core issue, it's not a fellowship issue, and uh, and so it's somewhere down the line, and it really is, and good theologians historically have gone on both sides, and so it's what that tells me is that it's a right or left issue, not a right or wrong issue, it's not a fellowship issue, and so you absolutely 100%.

And and and so we're we we can talk, we're definitely want to talk about this take because we want to understand what we believe and and why we believe it, um, knowing that good guily people have come down on really all ends of the spectrum.

Yeah.

I I I totally agree with one sort of maybe uh and that is I'm not sure that I would say it's a right or left.

I think there probably is a right or wrong, but we can approach that with a lot of humility.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Uh I I would think we would say like a right or left issue is something that doesn't have a moral component at all.

And this could have a moral component um in terms of it being right or wrong, but the significance of that right or wrong uh is I think we would both say really small.

Yeah.

So uh and I'm really glad that you brought that point up, though, because there it it is a it is just not true that in the church unity should be preserved at all costs.

There are times that the church should say, Yes, we divide.

That's right.

Okay.

We'll throw elbows over this.

We don't have fellowship here.

So there's and I would call those like closed-handed issues.

Those are level one, tier one, um we we would divide over this.

That's right.

And then there are other issues that we're gonna uh hold with an open hand and say, You believe that, I believe this.

Really?

No problem.

Yeah.

So let's let's give it a list of some.

Okay, so I'll give you an example of that a close of uh issues.

Like when I was talking to a pastor once who said, you know, I read this uh in the New Testament and um in Paul, and you know, honestly, I just think Paul was wrong about that.

And and and what they're saying is it's not the word of God, it's the word of Paul, and we can kind of divide the red words or what Jesus says from the rest of the the word of God.

Um and we're kind of splice up the div, and and and it's it's a demoting of the word of God, and it's essentially coming to now you're standing over the word, not under it.

And and that is we would divide on that.

We're saying, no, you are under the word.

If it says it, it's true.

And we may not understand how, but it is true.

We would divide over that, yeah.

We believe in the inerrancy, the authority, the infallibility of all of God's word.

Yes, all of every all of it for the time.

Closed-handed there.

Yeah.

So we will not, we will not uh we will not join arms with that with that church because we believe that church has departed from the way.

Yes.

From following Christ.

Okay.

Uh so authority, infallibility, inerrancy of God's word.

Uh salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Yeah.

Closed-handed issue.

Yeah.

That's not a oh well you agree to disagree there.

No.

We would divide over that.

Yes, absolutely.

Um the So and then and then there's there are other issues that we'd go, okay.

Um we're okay to not think the same things or that they're more open-handed.

Um I would say the age of the earth.

Okay.

It's not that we don't have beliefs or uh convictions, uh, but old earth, young earth, you know what?

What we're gonna we're gonna hold that with humility in a way and we're not gonna divide over that.

Can I bring up a stop hitting it?

Sorry, Michaela.

Yeah.

I didn't do it.

I didn't do it.

We don't uh uh you know, and and well you you can comment on this, but I I would put the mode of baptism in that category.

Uh that so and I'm not saying we we we have convictions, we have what we believe is true.

Um, but if someone else is baptized in a different way, uh whether by immersion or sprinkling, or whether as an infant or an adult, then you know, if they have their conviction, uh I wouldn't divide with that person over that.

I have I have what I believe about it, and I believe it's true, but I I I would still consider that person my my Christian brother and follower, a disciple, fellow disciple of Christ.

Yeah.

Uh so what what I'm not saying is that oh, we don't have any convictions about anything.

Or that they don't matter.

They don't we do have convictions about like sex baptism and that's the earth.

Uh but the the question is at what point are we going to um divide?

And break fellowship.

And break fellowship.

So um okay, so what we're saying is cessationism, continuationism, uh, we're gonna hold these with humility and don't see it to be something that Christians need to divide over.

Exactly.

Yeah, and yes, precisely.

And and I've had ex been a part of churches in the past on both sides of this, as many of our listeners and members at Sandhurst have.

And uh and and and I think we could look at it and say, we have seen honest and sincere people on both sides.

We've also seen dishonest and insincere people on both sides.

And and so really to me, it's it's the it's the heart of the disciple that comes to it.

And there I think we'll get to heaven and we'll figure this out.

But if if if we have divided over this on earth, I think when we get to heaven, we'll have a little rubber man waiting for us.

But thankfully, all of our sin has been taken to that on Jesus.

Amen to that.

Thank the Lord.

Okay.

Um, so let's let's argue for cessationism.

Uh okay.

The the sign gifts ceased at the end of the apostolic age.

Here's the the the general belief.

Again, you like you said, it's on a spectrum, but yeah, um the the the claim, the belief is that um the sign gifts were given by God during the time of the apostles to authenticate the message.

The sign, a sign to signify.

Yeah, to signify this is true.

If we're making a radical claim, there should be a radical evidence to prove it.

And and the resurrection of Christ is the resurrec is that radical evidence.

But um if you're in some tribe somewhere and they had had no experience of that, it's helpful for them to actually see something to authenticate your claim.

Yeah.

Whether you're in a tribe now or when you're in Corinth, in the absence of the New Testament, and with this new message coming in, um, that God would give uh some sort of miraculous way of authenticating that message.

Okay.

So it cessation the belief uh that God gave the Sign gifts, miracles and such to the apost or during the apostolic age to authenticate the message, and that now God has ceased to give those gifts as the normative pattern.

That's right.

And I do think that is important.

Again, that's part of the spectrum there.

Because the reason I think that's important to represent the cessationists correctly, uh, rightly is to say cessationists are not denying um the power of God, the miracles of God, not trying to put God in a box, just going, okay, what is the normative pattern here of how God works and how God gives gifts to his kids?

So uh let me that's kind of an explanation.

Where where are they gonna where's the cessationist gonna get this from in the Bible?

Right.

Uh well, they're gonna go to a couple different places.

Uh Hebrews 2, 1 Corinthians 13 in particular.

Yeah.

Uh let me read Hebrews 2.

Yeah.

Um it says, for this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard so that we do not drift away from it, for if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we receive how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

Hebrews is full of warning passages.

Okay, now he's going to talk about uh, well, the next verse.

After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us.

Okay, the words of the Lord.

It was confirmed to us by those who heard.

God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, and by various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to his own will.

So what Hebrews 2 just said is that God works signs and wonders to do what?

To confirm to us those who heard.

By that God testifying with them both by signs and wonders.

So it's God coming alongside and saying, Hey, I'm giving you these signs to authenticate.

This is true.

Okay.

Then you pair that with 1 Corinthians 13, and um there's a way to interpret 1 Corinthians 13 that is really important to this.

So you taught this last week, um, but he says in verse 12, For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.

Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have also been fully known.

Well, that's not what I was hoping for.

Uh when the perfect comes.

Where is Oh yeah, verse nine.

Uh I jumped in too late.

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

So uh it's going, okay, what is what is the partial and uh that is going to go away when the perfect comes, and what is that perfect?

Okay, when you so there's one thought uh to say, well, the perfect coming, that is a reference to Christ's return, and um when he comes to make all things new, then these gifts of miracles and signs will be no longer needed.

We will see him as he is.

Um but there's another way to see it as with the perfect comes, that perfect is the full canon of God's word.

That's right.

And so the cessationist is gonna say, the perfect has come.

We have God's perfect, all all the things we already said about the word of God.

That's right.

Inerrant, infallible, authoritative word.

It has already come.

And so what 1 Corinthians 13 says is the partial will be done away with when the perfect comes.

We have the suff God's word is sufficient to speak, and so we no longer need God's um special revel.

We have God's special revelation, we don't need any more.

And um, so from Hebrews to 1 Corinthians 13, and I don't want to oversimplify because there's other passages too, but that's that's gonna be the cessationist argument um in a nutshell.

Do you have thoughts that you'd add to that?

Um I would say uh that that that is the core biblical argument.

There was also just the observations of the church fathers.

You know, yeah.

So we're going from bib from biblical to history.

Yeah.

Yes.

And so um there was a notable decline in the broadness of the the sign gifts, the miraculous, uh, in the early centuries.

And so um most of the church fathers were leaning towards cessationism.

For sure.

Um and you name an early church dude.

Yeah.

So like I've got a list here.

Uh so let's see.

Um Ireneus, Hippolytus, hegemonius, Gregory Veneziansen, Ambrose, if you can say that.

Chrysostom, Augustine.

Actually, Augustine interestingly changed his position.

He he started as a cessationist and then after observing a few things, decided that he would open the door.

So he wasn't a strict cessationist and actually became a continuationist, but in a very limited sense.

Um, well, that reminds me of uh what Keller said.

Keller was like, I'm 80% cessationist.

Yeah.

If if that doesn't speak to the spectrum, exactly.

Yeah, uh Tim Keller speaking to uh to a charismatic assembly in London said I'm 80% cessationist, which brought cheering because that's mean he's 20% continuationist.

Uh and then say, look, and what he meant was that um and we'll probably get to this later, but how how unfortunately the the the the scientists can often be um abused because it feels like you know a a spiritual flex.

But um a lot of the early the the early fathers were cessationist uh because they they noted a decline and they they they gave several reasons for this decline.

One reason was um uh the the the uh the the the the work of of signifying a new truth was over and we had God's word to give.

Secondly, um they thought that tongues had been given as a way to s preach the gospel to all nations simultaneously, but the gospel had really kind of gone to all nations by this end of the second century.

Um and so there was no further need for that.

Um another one is as is in every generation, you know, uh it ain't they don't make them like they used to, you know, like a lack of spirituality and and and a lack once, especially after 300.

So like in the fourth century, uh Constantine legalized Christianity in 313 AD, and it became the official religion of the Roman Empire in 380.

And so uh after that, it became became popular and easy.

And what happened was there was a a lag of spirituality, which is what gave rise to the monastic movement.

The monastics weren't trying to get away from the world, they were trying to get away from the world in the church.

And so uh they felt like there was a decline in spirituality uh as a result of the legalization of Christianity.

And so, all for all these reasons, they thought that um the the sign gifts had had ceased.

They just observed their decline.

Um they also observed them happening occasionally, which kind of gave rise to this to the uh 80% cessationist view.

I mean, it's actually pretty historical to go with something like that.

Um they this so they were they were theologically typically cessationist, but then practically like, hmm, uh but what about that?

And so they didn't quite know what to do with that.

But yeah, biblically and historically, there was no no question that there was a decline in the the the the broad the broad normative expectation of uh the the full display of the sign gifts.

Yep.

Um okay, so one last little note uh for the a you just gave a historical sort of case versus cessationism, biblical case, uh Hebrews 2, 1 Corinthians 13.

The other sort of uh biblical thread that I think is um important to consider is not only do we see the decline of it throughout church history, we see the decline of it through biblical history.

So um I mentioned on Sunday that there are two books of the Bible that talk about tongues.

Um and they are Acts, we have it in Acts 2, Acts 10, and 19, and then 1 Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 12 and 14.

So two books, five chapters, and um f First Corinthians is a very is written very early in all of Paul's writings, okay, um 53-ish AD.

What that's yeah showing, what that's telling, is that none of the later books that Paul writes even include tongues, which which is reason to go, okay, even even in the biblical history is Paul's writing that it's becoming uh a less of a topic of discussion, and and you can infer from that that it's it that it has declined even in.

Even in his own lifetime, right?

So because he's writing first Corinthians, I think, from Ephesus on his maybe second missionary journey.

So it's pretty early on, like you say, early on, and most of the other writings of Paul come later.

And it it never comes up again.

And so the argument that it happened in Acts and then in early Paul, but never again, uh is is is a is a really fascinating argument.

Um that that the gospel had, so to speak, gone to the nations, and there was no further need for that um uh that gift because it had had been fulfilled.

The the sign had been fulfilled.

Yeah, so we are making um, you know, and it might have actually been the second missionary journey.

I think it's the second, yeah.

Okay.

Uh but yes, written from Ephesus.

Yeah.

Early on.

All right.

So I don't want to spend too much time here because I really want to get into the things that are gonna help our faith go beyond Sunday.

But this is I think this is a good context for us to be able to think biblically, because that is part of the equivalent, the thinking biblically.

All right.

Um that's cessationism.

Let's talk continuationism.

Um what's the biblical case for that?

Where are people going to scripture to go, okay, uh, no, they haven't ceased.

Yes, they are still in operation today.

They are the normative way that God gifts his people, not to say, okay, so um, what's what's the biblical case there?

I'll I'll start and then Adam, you chime in.

The biblical case that a sus a continuationist is gonna make is really gonna center around 1 Corinthians 14.

Yeah.

Um, first Corinthians 14, uh, Paul says things like, um, I now I wish that you all spoke in tongues.

Right.

Um Paul has is not shy about correcting the Corinthians at all.

Um and he's he's just like he's he's very content, very happy to say, hey, you got a man sleeping with his with his father's wife.

Stop it.

Yeah, yeah.

You got a bunch of chaos in your service, stop it.

You're taking the Lord's Supper in a way that isn't honoring to the Lord because it's it doesn't reflect any love for one another.

You're getting drunk, stop it.

Yeah.

But when he comes to tongues, he says, not what she all did.

Okay, that's uh and and then he uh he he so he says things like that throughout the chapter.

Um he says, Um I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all.

Okay, so he's embracing it as something that he does, and um and he wishes that they all did it as well.

Which is really interesting, by the way, just you know, what the text says when he says that is it like what he is it a gift that the Holy Spirit gives you, or is it something that everyone was supposed to do?

Right?

Because like he says, to each one God is given gifts.

For some are apostles, some are prophets, some are evangelists, some are you know, some have the gift of prophecy, some have the gift of healing.

But he says, I wish you always speak in tongues.

So I'm like that that it it it can come off confusing.

It's like, well, do all prophesy?

Do all speak in tongues?

Right.

Well, and and I th I do think the the answer is no, and we get that from um from the end of chapter 12 when he says uh he he asks a series of questions, and the the rhetorical answer to all the questions is well, no.

So um he says he he lifts a bunch of spiritual gifts, and then he says, All are not apostles, are they?

And the answer is no.

All are not prophets, are they?

No.

All are not teachers, are they?

No.

All are not workers of miracles, are they?

No.

All do not have gifts of healings, do they?

No.

All do not speak with tongues, do they?

And the answer is no.

So I think he's going, uh uh So when he says stuff about like I wish you all did, uh, I guess it's if you know, kind of if you put that in balance with, you know, the end of 12, it feels like hyperbole.

Like it's it's it's a rhetorical device.

Yeah, I think the continuationist at bare minimum is gonna say Paul wanted this, Paul Paul saw this as something that uh could be, should be normative, not for every Christian, but for some Christians at least.

Yeah.

Um the other sort of um continuationist point that they're gonna make is from the last verse, second last verse of the chapter.

Therefore, my brethren desire earnestly to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

They're gonna be like, um Paul said don't forbid it, and so maybe we should not forbid it.

Um any any other things you want to add in terms of again, I don't want to spend too much time here because I have a few other things I want to say about continuationism, but um I think that's okay.

Okay, yeah.

Um the the continuationist is going to probably then take there's three sort of categories of tongues, which Paul talks about, like there are different kinds of tongues.

He says that in chapter 12.

And so a lot of continuationists are going to divide tongues into three sort of categories.

Um, prayer tongues.

Okay.

That that's that's what we talked about on Sunday, that the the tongues are a gift uh where you're speaking mysteries in your heart to God to edify yourself.

And so that's and then he's I'll pray with my with my spirit.

Right.

So uh And for all you um cessationists out there who think that's weird, we've all had this moment where we were just grieved or hurt or hopeful or something, and you just didn't have the words, you know.

You just you you know, you just you were beyond words in your spirit, and you just longed to be able to pray or pour yourself out to God, but it was just almost like you had no words for it.

You just your spirit just you just burned in your spirit or you just ached in your heart, right?

And so I think for f to to to to get for create a little bit of a sympathy for that uh that that is a longing that we've all experienced.

Yeah, and just then to add the the continuation, the the the they'll also go to Romans eight and say the Holy Spirit also intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

And and the idea is that to pray uh in tongues as a prayer tongue is to essentially join the groanings of the Holy Spirit that are too deep for words with our own groanings that are too deep for words, i.e.

tongues.

So um prayer tongues, um, that would be first Corinthians 14, what what I just referenced.

Uh then proof tongues and then prophetic tongues.

So prayer tongues, proof tongues, prophetic tongues.

The the proof tongues would be Acts 2, the things that God gave where it's clearly to authenticate the message.

Right.

Okay.

Proof tongues.

It's proving this message is true.

Okay.

And then the third one, prophetic tongues.

That that is another first Corinthians 14, um, kind of telling us where he's going.

Uh essentially uh that tongues interpreted is the same as prophecy.

Right.

It it is God's spirit speaking, spirit speaking to through a person um to the church.

Yeah.

And so that's the continuationism um sort of biblical thought.

And um let me so let me say two things that we would reject on this issue, just theologically, and then kind of where Sandhurst stands.

Okay.

Um we we reject and do not see biblical evidence for um well, th there are some reasons that people believe this, but that tongues are a necessary authentic authentication of a person's own salvation.

That's right.

There are some people who would say, um, you're not really saved, you don't really have the Holy Spirit until you're speaking in tongues.

And that authenticates, that is evidence that you actually believe that you actually have received the Holy Spirit.

And we uh totally reject that.

And and I would even say that that that is a gospel issue, and I I wouldn't say, Oh, you know, no, that that is that's that's adding to the gospel.

Yeah, that's adding to the gospel.

We don't do that.

Um second is we would I wouldn't hold it on a on an open hand personally for tongues to be um practiced outside of the first Corinthians 14 instruction.

Correct.

So so I'm trying to bring these two things together and say, okay, whether you're a cessationist or continuationist, here's what cannot happen, and here's what I wouldn't hold with an open hand.

One, that tongues are seen as a uh an authentication of salvation, and wouldn't just hold it with an open hand that tongues be practiced with um a 1 Corinthians 14 instruction, which is two at the most three done in turn with an interpreter.

If not, then shut up.

Right.

Yeah.

And and so I I don't think I don't think that is very open.

I wouldn't personally consider that open handed.

So if you ever like are in a meeting and they're just you know, everyone is just kind of like yelling out in tongues or whatever, and and if everyone's just kind of praying or whatever, that I guess that's their own business.

But he he clearly says, you know, don't do don't don't create chaos, don't you know, order it one or two or three at the most, in order with an interpreter, and and if that's how it goes.

That's the model.

But beyond that, like where it's all just you know, kind of this popcorn uh uh eruptions, if you will, of of of the spirit.

Um, no, that's that that's that's not it.

Yep.

Yes.

And so where does Sandhurst land on this?

I mean, from our earliest days and our doctrinal statement, we are cessationist.

Uh we we do not see that the gifts of the spirit uh are the normative pattern by which God gives his people.

And um so that's where Sandhurst lands.

I but I do want to emphasize what I wanted to emphasize on Sunday in response to that, that we believe Psalm 115, 3.

Our God is in the heavens, he does whatever he pleases.

Yes, Psalm 77, our God performs wonders.

So we're not putting God in a box, and we're not saying what he can and can't do.

Um we believe he's in the heavens, he needs it.

Absolutely, and and so uh yeah, and and in their defense and in our defense, I mean I've never spoken to a cessationist who would say that God just actually won't heal or won't won't do this or won't do that.

Like if you taught start talking, the only thing God won't do is sin, right?

And so you have to let God be God.

And uh and so whatever theological term you want to put on it, um, you know, be be careful.

We are gonna hold this with a lot of humility and for sure, um, and keep the main thing the main thing.

And speaking of the main thing, we've spent a lot of time talking about cessationism and continuationism now.

Yeah.

Uh one of the reasons I didn't talk about that on Sunday is because those words aren't even in the text, and that's not even that is not the point of 1 Corinthians 14.

Nope.

If if you were not there on Sunday, uh you might think, based on our conversation so far, oh, this is uh clearly a chapter given to us to help us sort out a theology of cessationism or no no no uh the the point of chapter 14 is to uh is to inject in the saints uh the heart of God, which is for the edification of the church, the building of the body.

Yeah.

I keep hitting the table.

Yeah, I apologize for the building of the body, yeah.

Um and when we looked at Ephesians 4, that the building of the body, what is that being built towards?

And that is Christ-likeness.

So 1 Corinthians 14 is about building the body, edify the edification of the church, strengthening, building up, comforting, encouraging.

What is going to help, you know, if if you kind of reverse engineer uh Revelation 21, if Christ is making everything new, and what does that look like for the church?

What is re healing, renewal, strengthening, and building up and preparing for uh a holy and glorified eternity with Christ?

That's the whole purpose of any of the gifts uh at work.

And it's the purpose of chapter 14.

Yes, the building of the body, the building of the body.

And so the the Holy Spirit has gifted every saint, and we we ought to lovingly employ our gift in the church.

Okay, now um with that in mind, I want to I want to hone in on one part of the passage that was extremely compelling to me, and I want to dig in a little deeper than we were able to do on Sunday.

Okay, he's talking about um why prophecy is better than tongues for the building of the body, okay, in terms of Christ-likeness.

And this is what he says about prophecy in verse 24.

He says, But if all prophesy, okay, better than tongues, but if but if all prophesy and an unbeliever, an ungifted man enters, he is listen to these words, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, that's all who are prophesying.

The secrets of his heart are disclosed.

And where does that lead?

Okay, that he's he's convicted, called to account, and the secrets of his heart are disclosed.

If the secrets of a person's heart are disclosed, that can be embarrassing, shameful.

What is the word that what does that mean?

Make me feel uh exposed.

Yeah.

Where does that lead?

Um, and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

So he's making the case why prophecy is better than tongues, and prophecy is better than tongues, because here's what happens in prophecy.

Um the uh there's conviction.

Conviction is in in and he's called to account, the secrets of his heart are disclosed to to shorten it.

Conviction leads to worship.

And this is where I want to dig in a little bit more to to really help us um to help us so that conviction does actually lead to worship.

Where where the saints at Sandhurst, when we feel the conviction of sin, that that would lead to us like falling on our face and worshiping God um and going, God is certainly among us.

And the the reason why I want to dig into it, um, and I and I did allude to this on Sunday, is that conviction doesn't always lead to worship.

It can and it should, but a lot of times it leads in a different direction.

Conviction often leads to self-pity.

Oh man, I just I keep messing up.

And then when that happens enough, um, I can just get detached.

I'm never gonna get better.

I just I'll just kind of go through the emotions and then apathy.

Just don't even care.

The conviction can lead in that direction.

It can lead, but but it ought to lead to worship.

And so I want to I wanna dig into this a little bit, Adam, to help us.

The next time we're in um in church or reading the Bible, or we just feel the thumping of the Holy Spirit going, dang, um this I'm seeing the gap between who I am and who I'm called to be.

I'm confronted with it.

Yeah.

Um, that can lead to pity, it can lead to worship.

How how can we understand conviction in a way that leads us to worship?

That's what I want to dig into.

Yeah, and you can really understand this too, if you kind of flip a little bit and put yourself on the other side and think about tongues and prophecy and spiritual gifts from God's point of view.

If God is not trying to help us show off, he's not trying to help his children impress, you know, their uh friends with their party trick, speaking in tongues.

You know, he's trying to call them into fellowship with himself.

He's trying to heal them, bless them, strengthen them, do all these things that are in cur that are here.

Um, and if as a as a parent, as a dad, you know, if if my kids are doing something that harms themselves or their friendship and relationship to me, I'm going to want them to not do that and to help correct them.

And and so from from God's point of view, the spiritual gifts are simply a way to help his children live according to their design and fulfill their role in a body to bring health and strength to the overall family of God.

And each one has a something to contribute to that.

And he's trying to help them live out and express that gift in a way that blesses the others and gives them a chance to participate literally in uh living out the image of God.

So uh that's that's if when I think about it from a parent's point of view, it helps me to kind of demystify it a little bit and think when when I'm come to my child and I point out something that is wrong or they're that that you know, I can conviction, so to speak, it is my hope, not that they would grovel or be ashamed or you know, uh give up or whatever, but that they would be encouraged and strengthened and say thank you and and and be drawn to me and uh that gratitude would uh bring help and healing and strength and encouragement and not just um discouragement or shame.

You know, you think about even early on when God went to Cain and said, look, hey, sin is crouching at your door.

Don't do this, don't go down this path, and Cain's like, people are gonna, you know, whatever.

And he he didn't, it's like, no, just just submit, receive it, and and understand the heart of love and and help and and and concern behind it.

Yeah.

In terms of the conviction of sin leading to worship, what Jesus says about the Holy Spirit in the upper room has been really helpful to me.

Um, so John 16, remember, I mean we spent a while in this, I guess it was a year and a half ago in the upper room.

But Jesus talks about love, fruitful living, prayer, the Holy Spirit, and suffering.

And when he's talking about the Holy Spirit, he says, Um, but now I'm going to him who sent me, and none of you ask me where are you going?

But because I've said these things, sorrow has filled your heart.

But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away.

Why is it to their advantage?

For if I do not go away, the ho the helper will not come to you.

But if I go, I'll send him to you.

And he, this is this is this is it.

And when and he, when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.

So when I feel the conviction, when I feel conviction, it is very likely the Holy Spirit doing what he is supposed to do.

Yeah.

Is the Holy Spirit and and I think if to the extent that any of us have felt conviction, then there's good reason to think I belong to God.

Yeah.

That's an uh an affirmation of our salvation.

Yes.

So so be encouraged.

Uh this is I think that's affirmation of your salvation and and evidence.

God is working.

Okay.

The Holy Spirit convicts us.

That's his job.

Yeah.

But it's not his only job.

Go back to a few verses earlier in chapter 15, verse 26, and he and Jesus says this when a helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me.

Yeah.

So the the Holy Spirit conviction isn't just going to stop at pointing out sin, not just going to stop at sort of pointing out the gap between who you are and who you're called to be.

The Holy Spirit is going to point that out and then do this.

Testify to Jesus.

He's going to turn our eyes to the cross, back to Jesus, back to the pedestal, the the back to tell us that it is finished.

He's going to point us back to the grace of God that is in Christ Jesus.

He's going to point us back to Romans 8.1.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

That's right.

For the law of the spirit of life of Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

He's going to point us back to Jesus.

The forgiveness we have by grace, and, and, and I think that's really important, and the empowerment that we have by him.

He's going to testify of Jesus.

So the conviction of the Holy Spirit is not supposed to stop at just seeing the sin.

It's the Holy Spirit then goes, let me testify of Jesus on your behalf.

That's right.

And if I was going to give us well, I'll start with you.

If you're going to give us a passage that was going to go, okay, I know the Holy Spirit's going to testify of Jesus.

Where can I go in my Bible that would help me get some language that the Holy Spirit wants to speak to my heart in response to the conviction of sin?

Um, where would you go?

Um, Philippians 2.

Okay, why?

Because um he's pointing out that the what Christ did by his death and resurrection is lived out in me.

And the idea what's dying in me is not the good stuff, it's the bad stuff.

And what should come to life is God in me.

And that this is the pattern of Christ in the death and resurrection of Christ, and this is the pattern in in my life that I die to sin and live to Christ.

So I'm encouraged that when I'm being convicted, uh, I'm being uh I am I am being honored by God to name and uh expose my sin so that it would die and in its place would would spring the resurrection life of Jesus.

Testify of Jesus, Philippians 2.

Um, some passages that come to my mind that I hope would help the saints and and let conviction turn to ultimately worship by the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts so that our faith goes beyond Sunday.

First John 1 9.

Oh, yeah.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from most of our no all of our unrighteousness.

Yeah.

I'd go to I would memorize 1 John 1 9.

Yeah.

I would go to Psalm 103.

Man, this has helped me so much.

He has not rewarded us according to our iniquities.

No, he has not dealt with us according to our sin, nor rewarded us according to our iniquity.

Why?

For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his loving kindness towards those who fear him.

As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Yeah.

Let the Holy Spirit testify of Jesus by the word of God in our hearts.

So um Philippians 2, 1 John 1.9, uh, Psalm 103.

There's others too, Psalm 51, but to help our faith go beyond Sunday, to connect the dots between conviction and worship.

That's when worship starts to happen, when the Holy Spirit convicts us and then testifies of Jesus, and then our heart um puts more weight in the reality of what Jesus has done for us than um than what we've done to sin against him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I I even think about the verses uh where Jesus says, Come unto me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

I think we tend to think of those verses as meaning weary and heavy laden with the uh fight against uh the world or the enemy or you know, whatever.

But what about your own sin?

What about you who are weary from just battling your own sin?

Uh come to me and I will give you rest.

And uh and I will my take upon me my yoke.

It is easy and my burden is light.

And so uh that we we come to Jesus with uh uh not with our holiness, but with our our sinfulness, and he he takes that from us and lays it aside and replaces it with life.

So uh I just see Jesus as the as as this as the the the not only the sin bearer, you know, but as the life giver.

Yes.

And um so man, for the saints at Sandhurst, conviction to lead to worship.

Speaking of worship, um we're about to go to staff meeting.

Yep.

Uh we normally do Monday podcasts, but we're doing it Tuesday morning, and we're gonna spend the next few weeks talking about worship.

I don't know how much you've looked into sort of the Hebrew use of that word, uh, but it is usually, maybe not usually, but maybe usually.

Very often it's translated as a verb to bow down.

To bow down.

When you read bow down in the Old Testament, it's that word worship.

And uh this this physical bodily prostrating of yourself, which makes which is what First Corinthians 14 says.

He will fall on his face in worship.

And uh we've I think we've talked about this before, not on the podcast, but just kind of hanging out.

The almost mystical connection that there is not almost mystical, I think there is a mystical connection between my heart posture and my body posture, yeah.

And um would would encourage our saints.

I I know at Saint Hurst we are we're kind of uh, you know, stand when we're standing, sit when we're sitting, and don't deviate from that because that would be weird.

Yes.

Um, but man, uh to the extent that we can before the Lord have freedom to kneel, to come to the front, to get on our knees, to go back to an elder um for prayer in the back, to to let to to raise our hands when maybe we wouldn't normally raise our hands, to let our pot to let the posture of our bodies reflect the posture of our hearts.

There is something to that, that the conviction of the Holy Spirit from 1 Corinthians 14 that he would fall on his face in worship, saying, God is certainly among us.

Yeah.

We do it in other ways, right?

Like, so we're watching the ballgame and your team scores and you jump up and you're screaming in high fiving.

And I'm not saying you have to do that in church, but I'm just saying the point being that your body tends to follow you know, your your heart.

And uh, or if you're at the ballgame watching your kid and something great happens, you just you you in you just almost involuntarily, you know, your fist pumps, right?

And so um it's it's uh be absol be free.

You know, let your heart let your body express your heart.

Yeah, your body tends to follow your heart 100%.

It I think it's also true that your heart sometimes follows your body.

That's true too.

And that's why sometimes I do think you got you gotta start with the body.

It's an act of faith.

Yeah, as an act of faith, start with the body and let the heart catch up sometimes.

And sometimes I think the body can can kind of get the daggum heart going.

And so, like if you if you're in a in a service at Sanderson and and you and you're you're you're struggling to wrestle with something in your heart, tell your feet, start walking to the back corner.

And then let your heart catch up to you on the way.

Like, oh gosh, what people no, just go.

Just start the feet pumping and let your heart and your mind catch up to you um halfway there.

And by the time you get to the back, and I've gone back there several times and been prayed for.

And and uh sometimes I think about like, oh gosh, what are people gonna think?

He's a pastor.

Well, I don't care because I I need prayer too, you know?

And so um sometimes I just gotta start my feet walking and then and then let uh and let the Lord catch up to me, let me catch up to the Lord actually, who's already leading me.

And and it's it's been it's been a really positive and a wonderful and a sweet thing.

Yeah, and for anybody who's saying, well, that's kind of inauthentic to kind of like act a certain way that isn't true to how you're actually um thinking or feeling in the moment.

No, no, no.

That is not inauthentic.

It's calling out something.

Yeah, that is calling to calling out in you what you uh want to be true and what actually is already true.

You're just trying to get your heart in motion in a way to honor God in a way that um God desires.

And so, man, um yeah, raise your hands when you don't feel like it.

Kneel when you don't when when that's not in your heart to kneel because that's you're helping your heart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um yeah.

If you're doing it to put on a show, don't do that.

Yeah.

Um but I don't really think that's that's not really our culture here.

We don't we we don't at St.

Hurst, we don't need people to that's not our ditch.

Yeah, we're not our our ditch is not to, hey man, stop putting on a show.

Our ditch is more, why do we look so dead?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And um that that's more our ditch.

So happy to to call that out.

And and I need that too.

Yeah.

Um and but but the goal here for our faith to go beyond Sunday conviction that would lead us to worship.

And as I think about again, um, you know, kind of to reemphasize what you said too in the the message on Sunday, you know, as you read chapter 14 and as you go through your week, uh not it that the it the the point was not to tick the boxes so that we can like, whoo, okay, so I'm not gonna be bothered by chapter 14.

The point is to walk in strength and to and to be a part of the body of Christ, being strengthened, encouraged, comforted, and edified.

I mean, these are the words literally from verse three, yeah, right.

And then throwing in verse five.

It's like, you know, it just says over and over and over um throughout the chapter.

And so um, what what can we do?

How can we use our gifts?

Um, whether it's you know, one body visits or fixes or uh builds and and cooks and gives, and you know, that the that we just use our gifts to encourage, strengthen, edify, and build up the body.

Amen.

And to add one little thing to that, I do think I don't want to lose the mystical supernatural element of First Corinthians 14 that um, you know, so fall on his face and worship saying declaring God is certainly among you.

That's right.

However, what everything you just said, I just so fully agree with that we can we can't control how God is gonna work in a service, but I can control how much I come into the service, I'm in the wrong chapter, uh, how much I come into the service with 1 Corinthians 14, 1 and 3 on my mind.

1 Corinthians 14, 1 is pursue love.

And verse 3, um, edification, exhortation, and consolation, or edification, encouragement, and comfort.

There are um by our words and our example, ways that we can build up the body every Sunday.

And this is this is a a call to the church to see God's heart for the building of the body, and then to be able to participate in it.

And I don't want to lose the supernatural, but I also don't want to make it so supernatural that you can't just walk in the church and go, okay, how can I encourage someone?

And that happens in the simplest of ways.

Um I know I know it's encouraging to my wife when somebody just says, like makes a comment of like she looks really nice today.

Right.

It's just encourag it, it's just it's just encouraging to her.

Yeah.

And and everybody's walking in to varying degrees with a need to be encouraged, a need to be seen, a need to be comforted.

And um, so I don't want to lose the mystical element, but I don't want to make it so mystical that we can't just walk in the church and go, I can I can edify the church um very simply with with words of encouragement and with an example.

It is it is the people I I get so inspired and so helped by the people's example in our church, from you know, Aaron Bunch who was clean in the bathroom when um everybody was going, to people who when I look around and I see them worshiping and I know what's going on in their life and go, okay, there's uh there's a Psalm 34 going on there.

I will bless the Lord at all times.

His praise will continually be in my mouth.

Um so the example and the words are two very simple ways that every single one of us can walk in and go, I want to build the body.

Yeah.

So don't want to lose the mystical element, the supernatural element, but don't want to make it so supernatural that uh we do nothing.

Greet greet people, see them, look them in the eye, uh and uh ask about their week, sing the songs, you know, pay attention, um, and uh uh be respectful, be thoughtful, and and those those are small ways that that accrue over time.

Yep.

All right.

Well, that's uh that's the end.

If we got to the end now and you've made it all the way here, and you thought, how did they not talk about this related to 1 Corinthians 14?

Send us your questions.

Yeah uh it it I think it's enjoyable to us when we get questions, and we want to scratch where the people are itching.

And uh so send us your questions.

That really does help us.

Um but uh and uh what we're always itching is to to connect the dots between convict uh conviction and worship.

So yeah, and and and and I think just to nail that big picture of edification.

Yep.

Um so you I know we've you said we've uh done part of 15 already in in the lead up to Easter.

Uh where are we going next Sunday?

Uh we'll be in chapter 15, the first 20-ish verses.

Okay.

And how's how's up this Sunday?

All right.

All right, let me pray for us.

Um, Father, uh really want to pray for everyone who is in our church, and particularly those who are listening right now, I want to ask that the Holy Spirit, who Holy Spirit, you part of your job in us on our behalf is to convict us of sin, to expose the gap between who we are and who we're called to be, and then to testify of Jesus.

And I pray as a church that we would get really good at that.

I pray that um for people who need language to help that, that they would give themselves to memorizing first John 1 9 or Psalm uh 103, something that would help give language to your work in our heart to testify of Jesus and that that would then lead to worship.

May uh worship, loud, thoughtful offerings of praise to you happen more in our church service, happen more on car rides around town, happen more on our beds at night.

Um I want worship to happen in a way that is just supernatural, that would make us go, man, God is certainly among us.

And um yes, I wanna I want to see miracles happen, I want to see the miracles of um conviction leading to worship, miracles of dead hearts coming to life, and miracles of uh simple acts of obedience, where we as saints walk into a church service going, Okay, I can't control what God's gonna do, Father, but what we can control is the degree to which we are going to encourage and comfort those with simple words and example.

So help us, Father, change us, send us, help us.

Um pray.

Amen.

All right, thanks.