Dead Man Walking (Part 1): Why Jesus Died and Why It Still Matters (Lent 1)

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. My name is Ross Stackhouse.

I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church. From the beginning,

our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into

church. Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their

stories, to honor their stories. Because in every human story

is God's story. In this podcast, you'll hear more about the

people who now call Heaven Earth Church home. Their stories,

in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering

faith. If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org

Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.

Hello, good people. Brad Miller here, the producer of the

Heaven Earth Church podcast. One of the main benefits of being

a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning

conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.

You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.

The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available

here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify

and on the website, which is heavenerthchurch.org Here now is

the conversation from Sunday, March 9, 2025, the first Sunday of

Lent. The Dead Man Walking series. Why Jesus Died and why It

Still Matters with Pastor Ross Stackhouse.

All right, let's have a prayer and then have our Sunday conversation.

Lord, I pray that you would open our eyes to see, open our ears

to hear, open our hearts to receive the wisdom and the love that

you so eagerly desire to give us for life, for eternal life. In

Jesus name, Amen. So, Hudson, I'm need your help today. Is this

your first start today on the visuals? Oh, dude, I'm so sorry.

My phone isn't working. Hudson. So baptism by fire, my friend.

There's a slide that talks about. It's got the word haunted

on it. Look at that. Haunting. Perfect one for one from the field.

Let's go. So when you think of the word haunting, maybe you think

of, you know, something scary and bad, but in the true sense of

the word, it's just that it's something poignant, something that

evokes emotion, something that's difficult to ignore or forget.

So you can of course be haunted by things that you'd rather

not forget, that are scary, right? But you can also be haunted

by beautiful things, by good things that just kind of stick with

you, that get into your spirit, to your heart, into your

mind. So a question to ask you to begin is recently what good haunting

have you had? What's something in your life that's kind of haunted

you? That like just. It stuck with you. It was so good, it was

so beautiful, so wonderful that you just kept thinking about

it? Maybe it was something in creation. Maybe it was a relationship.

What's something good that's haunted you recently? Melissa. Melissa's

niece. Her little niece is having a breakthrough with speech.

So it's exciting to watch her discover the ability to communicate

what she wants, who she wants. What good thing has been in your

life recently that's made it. It's been difficult to ignore. It's

poignant, evocative. Bobo, out of all the youth that Bobo works

with, she has somebody she works with who's celebrating 30 days

of sobriety. Two of them those first 30 days. Hard, hard. Wonder

hard. Yeah. What else? Something good that's haunting you,

sticking with you. You can't ignore it. Jim, working with my granddaughter

on the.

Girl Scout cookies, it's just ideal. I look forward every year.

It's just a fun thing to do and to see her.

Jim getting to work with his granddaughter every year selling

Girl Scout cookies just because you get to eat them. Jen,

you get. That's your pay. You just get a samp as you go. No, getting

to collaborate with your granddaughter and do a project. Yeah,

sure. A good thing. A God thing. That's difficult to ignore

or forget. My. Okay, guys, jeez, get a room. Anniversary today.

How many years? 18 year anniversary for my dad and Patty

today. All right, congratulations. What else? PT the

last lay servant academy where.

I saw 39 light people not only get some training, but take their

first steps to do leadership in their local churches.

Yeah, that just, you know, I'm retired now. I don't want to do anything

anymore.

But I'm committing myself to teaching classes.

In that because it's so exciting, especially.

With younger people to see something happen.

To God like that. Yeah. So pts participated in something called

Lay Servant Academy. You don't know what that means? In our United

Methodist, where I'm ordained United Methodist pastor PT is as

well. So there's like clergy who are the ordained folks and folks

who are not, who are lay people. And this academy trains lay

people to take leadership in their local church and kind of come

alive in their gifts. And he saw 39 people get receive training.

That's exciting for sure. Yeah. What else? Joanna?

I've had several haunting stories, hauntingly good stories,

but one most recently is that our cousin passed away unexpectedly.

And I'm reluctant to share it, but it's just too much to share.

Joanna, is this about the letter? Okay, never mind. Go ahead.

Well, I'm not going that deep into it, but the Lord kind of nudged

me and kept kind of presenting his name to me roughly a year ago.

And I went and visited him twice. And his life changed a lot

months prior to his passing. So it's still so fresh because he

passed away last week. But just. It's like hunting with good.

It's like, you know, of course we miss him and we're grieving in

the family, but I'm so glad that the Lord sent me or told me.

The Lord kind of nudged me to go see him, and he was not what you

call a believer.

The reason I asked Joanne is because that's my first story about

haunting. We were haunted in a wonderful way, in a terrible way.

Our cousin, my dad's stepbrother, his son that we grew

up very close to. My dad doesn't have any siblings, but our.

His stepbrother's Uncle Ron. To me, our cousin died unexpectedly.

He was 50. And I did his funeral this past week. And so, of

course, that was sort of haunting in a bad way. But that's

kind of our existence as human beings. Sometimes the good that haunts

you is right next to the bad that haunts you. And I was going

to tell this story anonymously, but since she outed

herself, I didn't want to tell it without her permission, but she

just gave me permission. We were in a series called Discipleship

Essentials. Can you name them? Name a discipleship essential. Any

of the five. These are the essentials. We say that if we practice

these, then we're going to be fruitful and flourishing as people

of Jesus. There are things we just want to practice together. Can

you name any of them? Humble, hungry and willing to seek. Jesus

is essential number two. That means, like, whatever's going on,

we want to just know, what did Jesus say? What did Jesus do? That's

what we want to be about. We want to give up everything that we

think we know to go pursue that. Tucker Sent. That's the easiest

one to remember. Everyone's like, dang it, Tucker. That was the

one. I was going to say. The we take seriously that Jesus is sending

us to people and places for a purpose that may not be clear yet.

That's the fourth one. There's three left. Yes. Shaped by God from

the inside out, by continuous companionship with God. So we're

not. It's, hey, this is beautiful. Don't give up. Our gathering

together. In community, we're not just checking a box. Like, community

is so powerful. We practice community spiritual practice together.

It's so important. But you also want to do it on Monday, Tuesday,

Wednesday. Develop a continuous friendship with God and

be shaped by that from the inside out. You got three of them.

There's only two left. You're a cheater. You're on staff. No, thank

you. Thank you. No, you get one help. You get one phone a friend

from Emily. Okay. Grace and the great commands at the core. At

the end of the day, Jesus was asked, what's the most important

law or command in the law? The first five books. He says, love the

Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. That

he says, wait, wait, wait, I'm not done. The second is, like it,

love your neighbor as yourself. The law and the prophets

depend on these two. And grace. If we're like, well, how what

is love? The answer to that is grace. God just pours out love to

us in a way that's extravagant and we're not necessarily deserving

of it. God says, I declare you deserving of it because it's what

I say. Grace and the great commands at the core of our lives.

And the last one, I'll give it to you, is collaboration. That we

are a part of big good news and God could do it without us, but

God refuses to. Each of us has a part to play in God's big news

mission to restore all of creation. I wanted to review those

because you need to pass the test coming up, and I don't want

you to fail. No, I'm just kidding. Essential 4 My sister took

seriously. She's out of the room. Good. We'll talk about her

while she's not here. I was not going to do it by name, but my

cousin's name was on her heart. She felt sent to him. She

responded. She wrote him a long letter. He was kind of lonely,

spent a lot of time to himself. It wasn't secret that he

had some struggles, but, gosh, a heart of gold. People said that

independently of this guy, like, he had a heart of gold. So

this person I'm telling you about, she's sitting down right now,

decided to write him a letter expressing how wonderful he is to

him, how worthy he is of love. And she beared witness to her faith.

Not a script like, hey, man, if you die today, do you know where

you're going? Like, no, hey, here's who Jesus is to me. I just

want you to know that. And tried to pass that on to Him. So

this was in January or like around Christmas time. Well, then

he died last week and I was sitting with the family and wouldn't

you know it, in the two months since that letter, he had gone to

treatment, he sought the help that he needed and he was somewhat

estranged from some family, his daughters. Six days before he

died, he called and had an hour long conversation with a daughter

that he hadn't spoken with basically in two years. And he left

a voicemail to his other daughter that like she said she'll

have for the rest of her life. It's terribly tragic that he died.

We're mourning that. But we're also haunted by this like this hope

that we have in this situation that I don't know if she did it or

not. Something changed and we're haunted by like man, what if

Jesus is more wonderful and bizarre and good than I've ever dreamed

like. And yes, there's this reality alongside. Yeah, but somebody

died. But that's being human. It's like we can't, that's, that's

the hauntings that you can't reconcile the two things. Like something

wonderful, like and hopeful is a part of this tragedy because of

Jesus Sending and what I want to tell you today, there's a one

thing, Hudson, that talks about how Jesus is not a myth or

a theory. I think this story like haunted us in a way that it's

like Jesus isn't a ghost story, myth or theory. Though sometimes

throughout history there are literally these things called theories

of atonement, things that explain why Jesus died. And people

have argued over the ages about the right philosophy for understanding

why Jesus died and why he lived, all these theological theories.

But like to Paul, the guy who wrote so many letters in the New

Testament, Jesus wasn't a theory. He was real. He was so real

that he was willing to give up everything to follow him and pass

on this legacy to other people. Jesus was a dead man walking

who haunted and saved people. I'll tell you why this series is

called that. There's a picture if you want to go to that for the

series. You know where that's from? Ronald, that picture. We were

there together, sir, from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Israel.

There's this amazing panoramic painting of Holy Week. And this is

what we're doing for Lent is we're in a series called Dead man

why Jesus Died and why it Still Matters for Ordinary People.

I am not interested in this series in getting you to believe

the right theory for atonement. Or the right philosophy

for exactly why Jesus died. I have these questions in mind. There

are some questions. Hudson on a slide. Why was. Why was the way

he lived so haunting for people? Why did so many ordinary

people believe at great cost to themselves. At great cost to themselves.

And why did he die? He didn't die on accident. Can you go to Mark

chapter eight, Hudson? Let's give Hudson a round of applause,

please. He got his first start. He was put into the starting

lineup today. And like, boom. It's like, hey, man, it's going to

be harder than normal. Jesus made a prediction like this three

times. In the Gospel of Mark, there are four accounts of Jesus

life. They're called gospels. It's a word that means good news.

We talked about that word last week. Good news. Mark, chapter 8,

Mark 8:31

verse 31. It's right in the middle of the gospel. He began to

teach his disciples or his followers. Disciples, a word that

means like apprentice. Somebody's learning a trade, the

human one or the son of man must suffer many things and be rejected

by the elders, chief priests and the legal experts, all the VIPs

of religion and be killed and then after three days, rise from

the dead. He said this plainly. Jesus didn't talk plainly

often. This time he was plain and Peter was like, get over here,

young man. You can't be saying that. And Jesus said not so kind

thing back to him in return. He predicted something like this

two more times. Jesus didn't die on accident. There's some kind

of thinking out there that, no, actually Jesus didn't die on

purpose. It was kind of an accidental, inconsequential, not

inconsequential, accidental consequence of the way he lived.

I could give that some credence. Except every gospel basically

shows Jesus saying he meant to do it. Why? He had a clock. From

the minute he started his ministry, he was a dead man walking

for three years. He was a dead man walking. He had three years to

live. He knew that his clock was ticking. And while he lived those

three years as a dead man walking, things he said and he did

haunted people. They couldn't let go of it. They couldn't ignore.

Evoked something in them that was dead. They'd be around Jesus

for five minutes and then for the next five days he'd be like,

what was that guy? He's so weird and so wonderful. I want to

be weird like him. I don't want to be normal like these people

over here that are the religious leaders. I want to be weird

like him because he's weird. And wonderful and life giving. They

were haunted by him. But then, of course, what we're building to

is April 20, which is Easter, when they swore, literally, I know,

it's a challenge to our rational brains. They swore that

this man who is dead, crucified, was now up and walking.

So in another sense, he was a dead man walking. He was raised.

And that also haunted them like nothing else. And then it started

this movement where people were willing to give their lives

to say, he is the one. He is the anointed one of God. He has come

to save us and free us and restore all of creation. When people

like Pliny the Younger. What? Who? Pliny the Younger was a governor

in modern day Turkey in About the year 111, he wrote a letter to

the emperor Trajan, the emperor of the leader of the entire

world, the. The leader of the not so free world, and said, hey,

Trajan, what do I do about all these people who are, like, meeting

on Sundays and they're singing songs and eating and they're worshiping

some guy who was dead and raised like he's a God? My practice

is to beat the tar out of them. And then if they recant, I

let them go. If they don't, I kill them. What do you think? And

Trajan writes back, this is such an issue at this point. Trajan

writes back and is like, good job, bud. Keep it up. Something like

that. Why would people do that? It was a cult, Ross. Cults

don't survive. They don't. The history of them survives, but, like,

the actual movement itself doesn't. They were haunted by something.

Something so incredibly wonderful. Why? Why was the way he

lived so haunting that people would just sign up repeatedly for

three centuries to claim this guy at great expense, at great cost?

Why did he die? And his name means. Do you know what Jesus means?

That name? It's a Hebrew name. Aramaic. Jesus. In the Christmas

story, the angel says, you will name him Jesus because he will

save us. Jesus means he saves or God saves. How on earth does this

guy's death save us? Huh? What? How does he save us? I want

to talk with you about that up until Easter. And my hope is that

by Easter, you believe something that's yours. Maybe for

the first time or again, you. I. Sorry. I literally hope to have

you leave this series haunted. In a good way. Not that it gives

you nightmares, but it has you walking free. It has you walking

hopeful. It has you walking convicted that he is for you, that

he did come to save you. And you have some little inkling of what

that means. And it fuels you to love people in the way that he

has loved you. So you can tell people, I went to church today and

the pastor said this weird thing that he wants us to be haunted

by Easter. What a jerk. It's exactly right. I hope you're haunted

by Easter. By the goodness of this weird guy named Jesus. I want

to ask you this, though. Today's just an introductory. By

the way, I don't really have a big one point for today. I just want

to introduce my goal to haunt you. Hey. But I do want to give you

space to determine the rest of the series. It's like choose your

own adventure in a book. When you think, can you back those questions?

Hudson? These are some of my questions. What questions do you

have about like, Jesus death and how it saves us? Are there questions

that you that have been stirring in you specifically about

like, why Jesus life saves us or why his death saves us or something

like that? Maybe you're like, I don't know. I just showed up to

church today. I'm tired, wanted more sleep. Something got

me out of bed. My kid drugged me to church today or my parent drug

me to church. Are there questions that have been unresolved

for you? Yeah.

White people have trouble believing that Jesus was raised from

the dead when he raised people before Lazarus and the different

ones and the son of the rich man and all this kind of thing, they

seen it done, but yet they can't believe that that happened

to him.

So Jim is wondering why people struggle so much to believe that

Jesus was raised from the dead. Okay, good question. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. What else? What questions do you have around these.

These subjects? His name means he saves. Really? How does his life

and death save? Why did he die? Why should I care? What questions

do you have along those lines? Otherwise you're co signing my questions

and that's what we're going with for this series. So you had

your shot. Don't come back. Be like, this series stunk. I didn't

like it. I'm not haunted. I'm just bored. PT.

Jesus become more than human.

Oh, boy. When did the human Jesus become more than human? That's

an easy one. No. Okay, somebody write that down. Yeah, yeah.

No. Yeah. Thank you, Adam. Why do I need to be saved? Yeah. Yes.

What? Like, yeah, somewhere along the line somebody. Yeah, yeah.

Like, why do I need to be saved? I'm a good person. I do good

things for people. Like, I don't need saving. Maybe somebody

does. I don't. Why? Why do I Need saving. That's an. That's an

important question. Yeah. I realize I can go back to the recording

and hear your questions again, so I don't need to write them down.

Anything else, Brandon? Yes. Why is blood and death the mechanism?

The Bible seems to be obsessed with blood. Why? I will hand out,

by the way, all my preparation for this series. I'm doing a survey,

if you call me a nerd for what I'm about to say. Well, it's my job,

okay? I'm going through the whole New Testament to find every

place where it's referenced, like why he died. I can tell you

in my initial, like, conclusion. I was just saying to

Alicia, like, when you go to see the mountains, it's haunting

in a good way that leaves you speechless. That's what I feel in

looking at this. It is not a simple answer that fits in a box

like this. People talk about the reason for why Jesus died in

a multitude of ways. Yes. They used language about saving us from

our sins as a ransom, rescuing us from the wrath of God. What? God

isn't God love and God's wrathful. Okay, hold on. I can't

reconcile those two things. Well, I'm struggling with that, too.

But all these things, and one of them is like this blood thing.

It's saved by his blood. What? We're going to talk about that the

next six weeks. Kirsten.

So Kira said a lot that we are saved not because of what we do or

what we don't do, but who we are, but because of who Jesus is,

and that's why we're saved. Then I also hear people say that

people who haven't accepted Jesus as their savior aren't saved,

so.

Oh, interesting. Kirsten, when I say it like that, it's actually

me going like, yeah, I think you're right. Kirsten's like, she's

heard that we are saved, quote, unquote, because of who Jesus

is and what Jesus does. But then if you don't. If you don't accept

Jesus as savior, then you're not saved. And she feels a little

bit of contradiction there. That's a good question, Hudson. Why

did Jesus have to suffer so much? Hudson, you're crushing it.

Today we're going to give you a raise. We're going to give you

a prize. Oh, we got another one. Let's go, Hudson. Say that again.

If grace is sufficient for all, why do we need to repent? I

knew you had it in you. You just had to think. You had to think

some. Now they're Coming out. Yes. We're going to do this the next

six weeks. Weeks. You can send me questions. Rosseavenorthchurch.org

you can text me. Jamin, you got a question? Say it again. I couldn't

hear it. Okay. Yeah. So basically, the question, like, if

God is love, why is there. Why, like, there's suffering in this

story. Why is there suffering in the world? Why do so many people

die in wars? Like, can't reconcile that. If God is love, why

do you. Why does he let so many people die in wars, for instance?

Yeah. All right, I'm going to move on. You have time still. Okay.

To send me questions. But the reason I say this is that one thing

I've realized, if I'm going to meet. If part. If Jesus meets me

where I am, if part of the story of Christianity is that God

comes to meet us, I realize that for us, sometimes as Christians,

we're answering questions that people aren't asking. And so, like,

I wanted to know, like, what questions are people asking? So I

went into this Reddit thread for atheists this past week. Spoiler

alert. I got banned yesterday. I was like, why? I didn't do anything.

I didn't proselytize anyone. I looked at the ground rules. I was

like, I didn't troll anyone. I had no personal attacks. I didn't

do this, do that. And then they muted me after they banned me.

Darn. Jeez. Come on now. But a question that has picked up steam.

I was telling Emily about this. Did Jesus ever actually exist?

This thread had tons of comments, likes. And I mean, I'll

give them this. They were very well informed. Now, part of the issue

that we're dealing with in our world is misinformation. Right? But

also it's that everybody has a platform to do what they want with

the information. So we're kind of struggling with both. Right? And

that's why people who, like, belong to Jesus, in my opinion, like,

we need to be the people who are the most committed to truthfulness.

Like, wanting to, like, seek out good sources, be informed, be

wise. We don't want to participate in what I've called the

propaganda swamp. So I probably got banned because I had

a comment that was this long, but I didn't make any faith claims.

I didn't. So I wanted. I did tell Emily I was going to. I want

to address that question to end, and that seems like a stupid

thing to do because what does that have to do with anything? And

then I want to tell you what I think this question is. Really about.

I'm not going to go through this in detail. First of all, I'm

going to tell you historians, it's not a question Jesus existed.

It's not a question. There's a small little niche of people who

want to raise that argument. It's, it's not a good argument because

like I said in here, people are like, well, there are no records

of his life. There shouldn't be. He was a poor non citizen stonemason

who lived in an unremarkable town and got crucified like thousands

of other people. There should be no record of his life. And yet

there is. There should be no record of his life within 30 years

of his death. Christians were being blamed by the emperor for stuff

and they were willing to endure that blame for a myth that

was concocted about a guy who didn't exist. Technically, you could

be right. Odds aren't in your favor. All right, so there was a

fire in Rome and the Emperor Nero said it was the Christians who

did it. And then they all got in trouble and beat up and killed

and stuff. And then that just kept happening for the next three

centuries. For a story that was made up about a guy who never

existed. There were no outside sources about his life in his lifetime.

There were no outside sources about a ton of people from the ancient

world. That means you don't. Ooh, this sounds arrogant. Hold on,

back up. That means that potentially you don't have a great

grasp of how history worked in the ancient world. There's a guy

named Tacitus who is a Roman senator and historian who talks about

Jesus. In 116 A.D. he existed. I got banned. I love these people.

I love them. I wish I could have stayed in the conversation.

I'm going to try to jump back in. I don't think my odds are very

good. I wanted to know what questions they're asking because

I care about them. And I wanted to get at like, is this really

an historical question for you? And I'm going to tell you that

this might be unfair to them, but it's my conclusion. I don't think

they're really asking a serious historical question. I think

it's an expression of what they feel about Christianity, that

it's not legitimate. And so how do you, like, what do you do

when you don't think something's legitimate? You do everything

you can to erase it. And they're right. Christianity has failed

to be a consistent, legitimate source of healing and hope for our

world. I saw in this thread they were like, everybody was going

off course about whether he existed or not. They were instead

talking about how Christians are. And that's when I knew they

weren't asking whether he existed or not. They're like, yeah,

but look at the Inquisition. Look at this. Look at, look at what

happened to the, to the Native Americans. And I was like, yes, yes,

it's terrible. They're atrocities, you're right. What were

they saying? We're haunted by Christianity in a bad way and I'm

sick of it. Why is it haunting us in a good way? These are the questions

I want to pursue in the next six weeks. That's why I want to get

at these questions. If we drive at these questions, like why

was the way he lived so haunting in a good way that people

chose to go with him even at great cost to themselves? They didn't

bring harm to others. They were willing to have arm out come

to them. Christianity was the most legit thing because these answers

matter to ordinary people on Monday and Tuesday, not just Sunday.

For these people, Jesus wasn't a ghost story, a myth or a theory.

He was a dead man walking who haunted and saved people. And like

I said, he wants to haunt us and save us too, in a good way. Like

I said, I just wanted to introduce this today. I hope that

you'll keep coming back for the whole series as we explore these

questions and pursue this mystery. Let's pray. Lord, I pray

that you would help us to see you in a way that we never have before.

I mean that, Lord, help us all to see you in a way we never have

before. To discover your healing and hope like we never have

before. To know what it means that you save, to experience that

and to offer it as a blessing to the world. It's in Jesus name

I pray. Amen. I would invite you to stand and.

Sing this with us. This is a another new song I was talking about.

It's called Made for More.

Taking the words and as we think ahead, answering some of these

questions or.

Even just kind of working through them.

Just exploring this idea that.

There'S a.

Depth of purpose that we have.

Cause. I know who you are the cross of salvation was only the star

Now I am chosen free and forgiven I have a future and it's

worth the living cause I wasn't made to be tempting a grave

I was called by name Born and raised back to life again I was made

for more.

So.

Why would I make a bend my shame When a fountain of grace is

running my way I know I am yours I was made for more.

I.

Know I am cuz I know who you are the cross of salvation.

Was.

Only the sun Now I am chosen free and forgiven I have a future

and it's worth the living cause I wasn't made to be 10 in a

grave I was called by name Born and raised back to life again

I was faithful why would I make a bend my shame When a mountain

of grace is running my way I know I am yours I was made for more

Hallelujah you call my name thanks to my singer your praise Hallelujah

you buried my past I'm not going back I wasn't made to be 10

in the grave I was called by name Born and raised back to life

again I was made for more so why would I make a bed of my shame

When a fountain of face cause running my way I know I am yours

and I was made for more why would I make so why would I make

a bed in my shame When a fountain of grace is running my way

I know I am yours and I was made for more.

So.

I was just Is this on? Yes, There we go. Our church dreams of

being a legitimate church. That's why we say we want to exact

we exist to make a lasting impact in our community and our church

has. I just want to make it known we've been a friend to atheists.

At one time our greatest evangelist was an atheist friend

in the community who invited people to our church. That's the

reason that Sloan was here from Sloan's Corners because they

were invited by an atheist. So that's part of this series too. We

want to like keep driving toward being that legitimate church.

Thank you for being with us today. I pray that you take the light

of Jesus with you and that he continues to haunt you with his goodness

in this season. Have a good week.

Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven

Earth Church. Your next opportunity to do so live is this

Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at

309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.

That'[email protected] Heaven Earth Church. The audio podcast is

always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify. You can help

others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going

to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating

and your review instructions on how to do just that and links

are in the show notes. You can always find out more by going to

the church website heavenearthchurch.org we.

Want to thank you for spending time with us today My name is Ross

Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may

think out there that your story is over, but in fact, your

faith story may just be beginning. If you want more information

about our church or you're interested in the next step, you

can go to heavenearthchurch.org Otherwise,

we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth

Church podcast.