A Conversation with Mark and Juli Knutson: HeavenEarth Church Stories

What would it look like to start a community that was really,

it's for the people like Jesus would be for?

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.

I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.

From the start, our heart has been to be a church for people who

don't fit neatly into church.

We want to meet people where they are and know their stories,

because in every story, there is God's story.

And this podcast is just about that.

It's about inviting you into the stories of the people of Heaven

Earth Church.

So let's turn to the story.

Hello, good people.

Welcome to the Heaven Earth Church podcast, a podcast about a

church where people are looking to make our community a better

place.

We exist to make a lasting impact in our community.

My name is Brad Miller, one of the producers and co hosts of the

podcast.

And what we love to do here is talk to people who are connected

to the Heaven Earth Church community and other folks who have

a relationship with the church.

And so our guests today are Mark and Julie Knudson.

We welcome you to our conversation here today, Mark and

Julie.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, let's just have a little bit of conversation to get to know

you folks a little bit, a little bit what your connection is

to our community.

So, Mark, let's start with you.

What's hometown for you?

Where are you from?

I'm originally from Kokomo.

Okay.

Born and raised just outside of Kokomo and went to Purdue and

graduated and met Juliet at Purdue.

Lived in Iowa for a couple.

Couple three years and eventually moved back to Indiana

and just kind of kept settling a little bit farther south and here

we are.

And so you.

You landed here and in our churches in a white level.

But you're in Franklin.

I understand.

So what, when did you land in Franklin?

We moved to Franklin in 2017.

Okay, very good.

We were in the Center Grove area prior to that.

Okay, very good.

Julie, what's hometown for you?

Ellisville, Indiana.

So down near Hoosier Country.

Right.

But I ended up at Purdue also, obviously.

So, yeah, it's kind of a defector.

I guess that's kind of the way it works sometimes.

Purdue or IU people, for the most part in our state, I'm kind

of the oddball.

I'm an Evansville fan because that's where I would just feel that.

So.

But tell me, Julie, just a little bit about brought up in Ellisville.

One nugget of life there, maybe in your home life or school

or something like that.

What was something cool for you about growing up In Ellisville,

the first thing.

That comes to mind is my dad owned the local hardware store.

So Ellisville at that point was an even smaller town than it

is now.

And he was just kind of.

The store was kind of a center of the community.

May not, maybe not the center, but everyone knew my dad and he was

just a really, really neat, friendly, genuine guy.

And so I just remember that really fondly.

And I worked at the store a little bit when I was a teenager.

All right.

At the hardware store.

At the hardware store.

Very good.

So I get a little bit of experience and a little spending

money, things like that growing up.

That, that's awesome.

Right, right.

I or actually ordered parts for the plumbing department.

So I learned a lot about that that we used in our remodeling since

then.

But it was a little tough to get the farmers that came in the

store to kind of Trust that the 16 year old girl knew something

about plumbing parts.

There they go.

So.

Well, apparently you did.

And here, here you are.

Mark, tell us a little bit about growing up in Kokomo.

What was something that was kind of cool or unique about there

or maybe something about your home life or school?

Well, we actually lived out in the country.

We lived nine miles outside of town and we had horses, we had dogs,

cats, ducks, chickens at one point or another.

We had sheep, we had go karts and motorcycles.

And it was, it was a great place to find trouble.

And it.

Trouble and I were pretty good friends back in the day.

All right, let's go there for a second.

What was a troubling thing that happened or something you got

in trouble with?

Oh, the first one that comes to mind would actually two one would

either be almost burning down the barn or having the police escort

me home from skipping school and riding the motorcycle out on

the roads.

Wow.

When I was I think 13, 14, something like that.

So something like that was just not an isolated incident.

There was no, there was a few other.

We don't have time.

Well, let's fast forward.

There's a little bit.

Tell me a little bit about your careers, kind of what you folks

have been up to, your work life or anything along that line.

Mark, start with you.

For the last 20 plus years I've been a co owner on the.

In the corner, cabinet, cabinet, countertop business in Greenwood.

Okay.

And been providing anything that has to do with cabinetry or

countertops in just commercial residential, anything that goes along

with that.

Anything from mantels for fireplaces to bookcases to home offices

to bars in the basement to it just goes on and on.

Yeah.

So if you go in somebody's home or business around Greenwood,

Whiteland, Franklin, we might see some of your handiwork in the.

Yeah, very good.

Julie, how about you tell me a little bit about your career, what

you've been up to?

Okay.

Well, I am in the writing and have been in publishing, that kind.

That field also.

But most recently I worked for a fundraising consulting firm in

Greenwood.

Okay.

And what I did was write compelling, hopefully compelling

case statements, we called them, that described a.

Not.

It was for nonprofits.

And so it described like a project that they were wanting to

raise money for.

And so this grant writing type of.

Thing, or it's close to grant writing, very similar, but this would

be written for a feasibility study to test the project.

Like maybe it's a big university and it's a big science

building or it's a new exhibit at the zoo or something.

So it sounds like relatively technical writing to me.

More persuasive writing.

Persuasive writing.

Okay.

And then at the end of the project or end of our study, we would

do a report that basically gave them advice on, you know, do

you.

Are you ready for a campaign or here's.

Here's the amount.

We think you can run any.

So you're doing writing for.

As part of your job.

Have you done your writing just for, oh, your own pleasure or

do you kind of your writing project, this type of things you've

been working on?

Not a lot.

I think it's.

I'm in it so much every day that, yeah, I don't do a lot of that.

I do some journaling, but.

There you go.

Haven't I thought definitely about, you know, do I need to write

that novel someday or something?

Just have it.

I asked because I've been working on a book of my own recently.

We'll talk more about that.

Yeah, we'll talk about that.

So.

Well, Mark, let's.

Let's kind of go just shift gears a little bit here.

Let's talk about liberty, about your either a faith based experience

or church experience kind of growing up and how that evolved over

time.

Whether you just tell me about that a little bit, if any.

We went to church.

We would go.

I felt like we were streaky.

We would go for a while and then generally it would be.

Spring would come along and there was so many things to get done,

you know, around the house and out in the barn taking care of the

animals or whatever it was.

Felt like in the summertime we would.

We would fall off from from church.

Thus it was difficult to kind of connect with everybody when you're

in and out so much.

I knew the other youth in the church, but to say I was close to

them would be, you know, not, not necessarily true.

Um, even, even the one dear friend I had.

We weren't super close, but we knew each other for so long that

it, it blossomed eventually into a pretty good friendship while

we were at Purdue.

Yeah, it's very good.

Was your church a part of your life at all in your adult years?

No.

Heavens no.

Once you escape the clutches, man, I did not want to go back at

all.

And we had our first son and my wife announced that it was time

for us to go to church.

And it was like, okay, if we find the right one and totally convinced

we, there's no way in the world we'd find the right church

because I could always find something wrong with it and that,

that didn't work out real good.

But yeah, so, so we started going to church about the time I

first was born and been been involved in it ever since.

Very good.

We'll come back to that.

What does come back go to you, Julie?

Basically the similar thing a little bit about your faith life,

if any, growing up and then kind of in adult years.

Well, actually a little bit similar.

I think we were a little bit streaky too.

And we went to church.

We went to a Methodist church when I was growing up.

And you know, I think in our case it was my parents business.

They both worked at the, the hardware store.

My mother was responsible for the, the bookkeeping and all of that

as well as working in the store.

And so anyway, just busyness I think would keep us, keep us out

sometimes.

But I felt a little, maybe a little bit more connected than he

did.

And I took piano lessons from the pastor's wife at church and so

forth.

But I feel like when I was younger is when we were a little

bit more faithful in terms of going to church.

And then not as much in my teenage years, but I still, you know,

felt connected and I'd go to church with friends sometimes and

so forth.

Not so much in college, pretty much.

You know, it would be more occasional in college.

And then as he said, you know, when we, I think we started talking

about it, you know, when we got married, but then when, you know,

we had a son, then it's like, you know, we really need to, we really

need to get back to church.

So you just got a backtrack.

You have the one son or do you have other?

And so that seemed like that was kind of pivotal moment that got

you into church then having children.

So tell me a little bit about that church experience.

Was it edifying to you?

Was it something you got.

Got involved with or was it something you just kind of, you know,

kind of just did as a part of your lifestyle?

Well, we, we really.

We did get involved in it.

We were a part of.

Invited immediately to this Couples in Christ class it was called.

And it was turned out to be just a great community of people

at the same age and stage that we were basically starting families.

Maybe they had, you know, young children already.

And those people became just basically our family.

And in the meantime, our parents both had moved out of state

or during that time, my parents moved to Florida and at least

for part of the year, and then his parents moved to Kentucky.

And so we were a little bit stranded.

So those, those folks became dear friends and a lot of them are

still dear friends today.

Those connections were important.

Yeah, very important.

Mark, was that kind of similar for you?

Were you as involved as well as.

Yeah, absolutely.

Met some great people.

But I.

I have to stress that the.

The people I met were people that I did not want to meet at the

beginning.

So you're a little bit hesitant, huh?

Oh, hesitant's name in close to the right word.

Just.

I wanted to be the wallflower and watch.

And dear Julie said, no, grab me.

And not just Julie, different Julie.

Okay.

And she just grabbed us and drug us into it.

And I went in kicking and screaming.

Part of the church.

Who got you?

Okay, I guess.

And then eventually, you know, you turn around and you're like,

wow, these are really cool people, you know.

That's awesome.

And they made it.

Yeah, made a huge impact.

That's.

That's a great way.

But they loved on you.

That's good.

Well, kind of fast forward a little bit.

What, What.

How did you have an Earth church get on your radar initially

and kind of what got you here to check this out, Julie, start with

you?

Well, I first heard about Heaven Earth Church when I was on

the board for Bridges alliance of Johnson county.

And Ross came to a meeting or two and spoke or, you know, had some

involvement there.

And I know he's still involved today.

So that was just kind of had been in the back of my mind, but

we were going to a different church and then we were invited to

come by our friends Ralph Lucy Hill just at the end of last year,

the end of 24.

And they had talked about it and said that they just really enjoyed

it and how Genuine people were, and that the sermons really

connected and they loved the.

The format of having a conversation.

And that was really intriguing to us.

Did you give me some first impressions you had, Mark?

Because what I'm interested in is because you said in your prior

church experience you were hesitant and wanted to kind of be

the.

As you said, the kind of the wallflower, maybe, whatever the terminology

used, kind of check it out.

Was it kind of a similar thing when you came to check out heaven

or church?

No, not at all.

Because.

Because of our experience for the last 35 plus years, you know,

I've grown more comfortable with my faith.

I've grown more comfortable with who I am.

And so for us, when we walked in that very first Sunday, I really

didn't know what to expect.

I don't know that Julie did completely either.

But we had a.

We had a baptism and it was just so refreshing because there

were aspects to that baptism that I hadn't seen in a number of

years.

And it was.

It was something drew us in.

And then we sit down for the discussion, which some people would

call the sermon or the message or whatever.

But, you know, Ross started off saying we were going to have

this discussion.

I didn't know what was coming on.

And then he starts asking questions of the congregation.

And it was like my head spun, you know, it was, what, what's this?

You know, and that format and then the, the authenticity in which

he presents his.

His message or the discussion for that day just absolutely blew

me away.

It was, it was refreshing.

It was thought provoking.

It was.

It was continuously.

The message stays with you for the whole week.

Yeah.

So that when Saturday comes, it's not a matter of, are we going

to church?

It is tomorrow.

You know, Are we going to church tomorrow?

It is, you know, man, I can't wait to.

Expectation.

Yeah.

Because you're.

You're just anxious to hear.

Want to do it, you know, Page.

Two, if you will.

If what Ross has to say or what message he's bringing or how

he's going to bring it.

Because it's like I said, it's fresh and it's.

It's intriguing.

You may have already touched on this in a way, Mark, but what

would you think was kind of a, you know, an aha moment when you

kind of.

Okay, this is a little bit more than just checking this out.

This may just be something I want to get more involved with.

Was there kind of that moment for you, kind of a illuminating or

aha moment?

I don't know that there was actually as you say, an aha moment.

But from the minute we walked in, we felt comfortable.

We were greeted, but it wasn't.

I think when people.

Hopefully people will understand what I'm saying.

The people were not over the top.

You know, it was genuine greetings.

It was not just, hey, how are you today?

It was more of how are you today?

You know, I can't really describe it, but the authenticity

of the members just was very warm.

And then, like I said, and then the message and then the baptism

and we just walked out of here and.

Went that really cool.

From early on, you felt very comfortable and kind of connected.

Oh, absolutely.

Very good.

Absolutely.

Julia, what do you.

What then you've.

Mark may have touched on this here, but what keeps you a part of

this community here at heaven or church?

What keeps you here and what kind of things out of that may be

attractive to others?

I think part of it is that I want to learn more.

Like, I'm.

I'm intrigued every week by what Ross is saying and how excited

and passionate he is about what he's learning at the same time.

And I feel like we're, you know, yes, he's.

He's teaching us, but also he's learning alongside us.

And that, that's really cool to me.

And then the other part is just the people.

I just.

Every week I feel like I meet somebody, either meet somebody new

or get to know a little bit more about somebody.

And to a person, everyone that I've met has been very.

Feels very genuine.

Like they, you know, they're interested in me.

They want to get to know me too.

And I think I was thinking about this recently.

I feel seen here and a lot of.

In a lot of situations, not just churches, but other situations

I haven't.

Yeah.

So that feels.

I love the way you've turned that phrase to be seen.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

I really think that's a big part of it.

It's a little bit hard to describe, but.

But that's the best way I can do it.

Well, let me kind of put it to you this way.

One of the things that one of the mottos of heaven or church, it

seems like to me it's on the website and some other places that

basically, if you feel like you don't fit in church, you fit

in here is what it said.

Is that true?

And if so, how so?

Let's just start with you, Julie.

I think.

I think very much so.

I.

I see, I look around the room and I see all kinds of people from

different ages.

To different walks of life, to, you know, difference.

Definitely different faith backgrounds.

And I love that.

I love the diversity of that and I love that people have different

viewpoints that they express during the discussion.

And it, it makes me think.

And that's, that's what I have always wanted from church.

And sometimes I've had it in the past and sometimes I haven't,

but I definitely have that here.

You know, I want to learn more.

I want to.

I want to hear different viewpoints.

And I feel like anyone can say just about anything here.

You know, I mean, within reason and people will listen and

see them and it will maybe turn the discussion a little different

way than what it may have, what may have been intended.

But we can always learn from that.

Not only to be seen, but to be heard.

Yes, to me what you're saying.

So I was going to be asking this.

Another one of the things that's said around here, part of

the mission of the church is it said that it says we exist to

make a lasting impact on our community.

So I'm going to ask you, Mark, and from the perspective not only

of the attending church here, but also as a guy who's in business

in our community, you find yourself working with people's homes

and businesses and just part of the fabric of the community.

Is that true?

And if so, how is this impact being made?

I am still learning how that impact is being made, but I do know

that one of the major factors that inspired us to continue with

this church is the local aspect of, of giving, to sharing,

to being involved with it.

That has always been something that I bristled at with other churches.

You know, talk.

The old saying, talk is cheap.

When, when other churches would talk about it, a lot of times

I felt.

And again, I, I'm not saying I know exactly how every church that

we went to did it, but it felt like it was just talk.

And, you know, when, when we started coming here, it.

It was readily apparent that we weren't going to.

As we as a congregation were not going to just sit still.

So we went in.

We, we.

They went and decorated a house for Christmas.

You know, they, they, they delivered Christmas presents.

They, they do things.

You know, they have the recovery church on Wednesdays.

There are so many things that are going on in our community that

when I hear the story of the Good Samaritan, I always think of

what's here that we need to do.

Yeah, that's awesome because you have these tangible examples

of how the church has been involved personally in people's lives.

Yes, right here in our community.

And so that, that's awesome.

So I think that's part of the vision here is to make an impact

that is lasting in our community.

And so having said that, let's just kind of bring it around to this.

And I want to kind of bring our conversation around to this because

it's a part of this extension of the legacy of the community.

Both of you are involved with our community in many ways.

You have interactions with people in your life, not only in

business and your workplace, but in personally and socially, in

other ways.

Let's just say that if somebody in your life comes to you

and has something going on, maybe there's a business problem

or marital thing or health related thing, or some issue that

they've confided in you about.

So Julie, I ask you first, is this the type of place that you feel

that you'd be comfortable inviting a person in your life to

come to, to be a part of, you know, kind of helping them to cope

with their situation?

And if so, what kind of, what would that look like?

What are the qualities you're looking for there?

Yes, I think 100%.

I feel like just, just as we felt welcomed, you know, I think

anyone else would hopefully feel, feel the same.

And I just will bring that back to.

We've had a couple things happen in our lives just since we've

been here and I felt like people just really rallied around

us in both of those instances.

And I'm just sure that would happen again.

I mean, people didn't even really know us very well, if at all.

And we, we were really felt surrounded by that already, which

is just really amazing to me.

So I would encourage someone definitely to, to give it a try.

And I think the, one of the big things that I think about with

this church is that your, your faith can be at this level or at

this level and it, or maybe even not at all.

And you come in the door and I think people are going to feel like

they can, they can be here and be accepted and maybe even find a

home here.

Yeah.

Well, Mark, I asked you basically the same question with

this twist on it.

And what kind of the twist would simply be what would you share

with someone who may be seeing this or hearing this here today and

kind of using it as a part of the process to kind of check out

heaven or a church?

So can you respond to that?

Wow, that's a tough one.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Oh, well, that's what I'm here to do.

You know, I, I don't know if I'm going to answer that directly,

but as Julie was talking, I was thinking, you know, nonbeliever,

and just come in and just, just see what, what you see.

Just experience it.

I think if you, if you have a problem and you're willing to tell

one person within the church what's going on, it's not like it's

a rumor mill around here.

You know, it's.

I can't tell you how many times, as Julie alluded to, had some

upheavals in our life over the last six months.

But it's not like everybody knows what's going on.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a smart family.

People are smart enough to know what they can share with others

and what they can't.

It's, it's very genuine.

Whether you believe 0 or you believe a lot, you will, you will

just truly feel comfortable here and, and welcome.

I came from a Lutheran background, and there have been times

over the years when I thought, man, I kind of miss the Apostles

Creed.

I kind of missed the Nicene Creed, you know, because, good Lord,

we said.

It every single Sunday.

There you go.

And, and, and we've on occasion gone back to those formal

churches, if you will.

And yeah, it was great.

It was wonderful.

But it, it wasn't captivating enough to draw me back to my, to

my youth of, of, of that kind of church where there's just something

really special going on here.

And it's just, it's awesome to be.

A two other word you use there, I think really cool.

One of them is smart.

I like that.

And you know, part of what we do, we see, you know, we kind of

dive deep into issues, life issues, biblical, breaking down the

Bible pretty thoroughly and, you know, an application of those

issues into our lives.

And I love that it seemed like you were also sharing there.

Market felt safe, a safe place to share, and then also that you

like, use the word captivate.

I think that's a good word as well in terms of captivate just means

it get your attention and hold your attention.

So that's a good thing.

So.

Well, Julie, I'm going to give you the last word here.

And in our conversation, it is simply, what would you want to share

with someone who may be kind of checking out heaven or church?

Most people check out our church or many, many people check

it out by online, either website or videos and audios and

things like that.

What would you might want to share about your experience?

I think that heaven or this is kind of a gentle place to land, especially

if you're exploring maybe your faith for the first time or you're

revisiting your faith, just kind of questioning like, you know,

what do I believe?

I think that's a really.

This is a really great place to feel safe, as you said, and just

start kind of figuring that out.

And if you're someone like us, you know, we were.

We were kind of questioning where we were, you know, the church

that we were going at and if it was really a fit for us anymore.

And it's a good place to try and just sort of, like I said, explore

and see if this is for you.

And I would definitely say, if you can't come in person, come in

person, because that's where you can really experience the community

here.

And don't come one Sunday, come a few Sundays to kind of see

what.

What it's really like, because every Sunday's different also, which

is something that.

That I really like to come and see.

Come and check it out.

Yes.

Well, we thank you for being a part of our conversation here today.

We're just pleased to have Mark and Julie Knudson with us, part

of the community here at Heaven Earth Church, as we come together

here as the Heaven Earth Church podcast.

My name is Brad Miller, one of the hosts of the podcast.

This is the podcast for the church for folks who want to make

a lasting impact in our community.

We want to thank you for spending time with us today.

My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church,

and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact,

your faith story may just be beginning.

If you want more information about our church or you're interested

in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise,

we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth

Church podcast.