Everybody Wants to Rule the World: A Sunday Conversation with Pastor Ross Stackhouse

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. My name is Ross Stackhouse.

I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church. From the beginning,

our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into

church. Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their

stories, to honor their stories. Because in every human story

is God's story. In this podcast, you'll hear more about the

people who now call Heaven Earth Church home. Their stories,

in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering

faith. If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org

Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.

Hello, good people. Brad Miller here, the producer of the

Heaven Earth Church podcast. One of the main benefits of being

a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning

conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.

You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.

The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available

here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify

and on the website, which is heaven earthchurch.org let's join

now Pastor Ross Stackhouse and the Heaven Earth Church community

for the message. God already made images of himself.

Wow. We did it. All right, let's pray and then we're going to

have a conversation. Lord, thank you that your spirit is moving,

just like it hovered over the waters in some mystery long, long,

long ago. It's available to us now to hover over the chaos and darkness

in our lives, to prepare us for light. Help us to see you this

morning. Help us to hear you through this conversation. In Jesus

name, amen. So the slide game again gets me. It's just my eternal

struggle. Paul said he had a thorn in his side. The thorn in my

side is propresenter. Take out the second to reflect. Don't repeat

to reflect twice, but read that statement. Go now. Say it like

you mean it. Do it again. And one more time for good measure. Now

let's do a P.S. do it again. Now. Pss. Do it again. Today we're

going to talk about how everything is made to reflect the

glory of God. We're carrying forward the energy of Easter. We

asked, we talked a lot about this theme of glory leading up to

the Easter se season, to the celebration of Easter, how we talked

about this thing called the inflationary period, where and a

billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, there was

nothing and then there was something the universe expanded at

a rate of 10 to the 26th power when the Big Bang happened. So like

God says, let there be light. And all of a sudden, God's glory

is racing and expanding, piercing this darkness. All the makings

for God's glory to be reflected in all things is now just

pushing out because everything is made to reflect the warmth and

beauty and brilliance of God. We're starting a new series today

called Growing what is Good to carry forward Easter. And it goes

along with our community garden that's launching your garden

at home, that we're going to bring the fruits of which we're going

to bring them back for distribution. I'm going to come up

with the simplest definition of good, but it's still not so simple

because you might. Well, I don't know exactly what God's glory

is. I'm defining good in this series as simply something that reflects

God. That's it. I'm defining something good as something that

reflects God. Why am I saying that? Well, when you look at Genesis

1, the very beginning, Genesis is a word that means beginning. It's

the first book of the Bible, when God began to create the heavens

and the earth. You've seen this everything. There was darkness,

there was deep. And God's wind, or spirit. In Hebrew, the word

for wind, breath, spirit is the same ruach. God's wind swept

over the waters. And God said. What did God say? And so light appeared

right off the bat. When God is creating, the first things that get

created reflect God. And so what does God say? God saw the how.

What? Because it reflects God. And then sky. God's like, you know,

let's do this too. Yep, yep. And then God named the dome sky and

so on. God named the dry land Earth, and he named the gathered

water seas. God saw how it reflects God. When you're. When you're

sitting in front of the ocean, right? How many of you, like, the.

The ocean is your centering place above all things, like the

beach in the ocean, it's your centering place. My wife would be

like two hands up cartwheel. That's where, like, for her, God

is. Is obvious, right? The mystery, the chaos, the power is

reflective of God. It is good. Keep going. Let the earth grow. Plant

life, this diversity of fruit, all this stuff. And that's what happened.

It produced all these things. And God saw how. Because God is like

a multiplying force. Good are things that just reflect God. There

was evening, morning, the third day. Let's do some more light.

God says, let's do It. That's what happened. Stars, stars, stars,

stars. God loves light. Loves light. And God saw. How are you get.

Are you getting a theme here? All these things just reflect who

God is. Creativity, diversity. Diversity isn't an accidental part

of our existence. It's part of who God is. Right. All right, now

let's skip forward. Well, then there's this part. Let us make humanity

in our. Ross, we're always talking about God's image around

here. Can we talk about something else? Well, when we start

believing that God's image is in all people and like, never doubt

it, we'll stop talking about it. Every human being originally

good. No, wait. Sorry, I missed it. My bad. Divine image.

God created them. He said, take care of the earth, Manage it

with me. Let's see, where did I miss it, guys? Oh, nope. I need

the supreme goodness slide. Where are we at, guys? Somebody help

me out. 31, my man. Thank you, Pastor Charles. God saw everything

he had made and it was. It was. Human beings are God. Human

beings are. Everything is made to reflect the glory of God. Did

I tell you we're going to talk about that today? We're going to

talk about it for the next, like six weeks. And we're going to

talk about how our entire purpose in life is to grow what is

good with. With God, to steward what is good with God. And

it starts with you. The thing that you steward above all each and

every day is what you see in the mirror. Right? But first I want

to talk about, like, it's easy to believe that everything is made

to reflect the glory of God. When you're like, here. I had a retreat

at Clifty Falls State Park. Have you been there? Who's been there?

Yeah, show me. I had a retreat there. It was my five. It's my five

year anniversary of being ordained in the United Methodist

Church. So they invite you on this renewal journey. And I went

into it kicking and screaming. I don't got time for that. And it's

what I need the most. Of course, the things that are the best

for our soul, those aren't the things we do, the things that keep

our soul quenched, those are the things we keep doing. So I went

here and, and in the morning and I hiked down to this creek and

just walked down the creek. That's how I spent my morning on

Friday. How hard was it, do you think, in this moment to believe

that everything is made to reflect the glory of God? Not hard.

Not hard. Not hard at all. However, then we go back out in life

Right. For whatever reason, somewhere in the history of humankind,

we decided that we had declared war against dandelions.

Somebody somewhere said, we will eradicate them. And what happens?

Every year, that little thing comes up and is like, hi, you lost.

Which is why one of my mentors, every Easter, he would preach

on dandelions. He called it the resurrection flower. So it's

easy to believe everything is made to reflect the glory of God

when you're. When you're Clifty Falls, you're staring at this

creek, you're hearing the creek, you're hearing the birds.

The wild turkey that I was not gonna trail, and I was walking through

the woods, and this big wild turkey jumped up. Boom. Scared me

to death. Easy to believe everything is made to reflect the

glory of God. Not so easy to believe everything is made to reflect

the glory of God. When a neighbor in your neighborhood, on

the Facebook group for your neighborhood, makes a veiled message,

what can we do? What can the HOA do about our neighbors who have

an insane amount of weeds in their yard? Who do you think he was

talking about? You would have thought on the side of my house,

I had a dandelion farm. Do you want to add it to two trees, Jill?

I got dandelions. I can grow them, baby. And this guy was like.

I mean, his house. And like, there's only one yard that looks

like dandelions were made to grow here. They're about a foot and

a half high. And so I. What did I want to do? I want to get on

there and be all sanctimonious about how I don't value putting toxic

chemicals in my. Which is act. I mean, that's somewhat true, but

actually, I just haven't been taking care of my yard. I want to

get on there about, like. Well, our values are just different,

bud. It's easy to believe everything is made to reflect the

glory of God when, like, you're in a state park or you're

around people you love, you're around your friends. What? Around

what. What happens when you get around everybody else, the people

who call out the weeds in your life. Not so easy, right? Not so

easy. When you jump on BBC.com first thing in the morning, you saw

there was another. Another bomb and another. Or when you hear

that, like, people were deported without due process. Hard

to believe it. And yet. Can you read it again? You didn't repeat

it the. To reflect twice. I appreciate that. There are my weeds

right there. It just keeps. Keeps popping up. Everything. It

is our destiny. And so my Challenge. Right. Is when my neighbor

calls out my weeds in the group chat on Facebook is to see

that and act on it and not, like, start to preach at him and

expose him. I'm gonna. I'm gonna expose this fella right now.

Some other people in my neighborhood did it for me. Poor.

He had a rough day after that post. But here. Here's why. Well,

actually, I'll go over to you for a question, then we'll come back.

What for you makes it hard first to believe this about yourself.

Like this truth. It's the most basic truth about humankind from

the Bible. It is the most basic, fundamental truth that every

human being is made in the image of God. Made to reflect God's

image, made to reflect the glory of God. Every human being originally

Good. What makes it hard for you to believe that about yourself?

Yeah. Yeah. There's just so much hate circulating. Like hate

is just in the water. Yeah. What else? What makes it hard for

you to see this about yourself, believe this about yourself?

Early childhood messages. Yeah, yeah. Early childhood messages.

Sure. They stay with us, don't they? Early childhood messages and

experiences. What makes it hard to believe this about yourself?

And so you got to dig in right now because you're like, no, I believe

this about myself. You believe it right now. The fact that I'm a

sinner. Thank you for sharing that. So we have this idea that it's

something that we are to live up to. Okay. Yeah. So it's something

we earn. It's not something that has already been declared and

we just. And we receive. That's also in the water. Our whole

lives. Everything's merit based. Our whole lives. Grades, promotions,

raises. Everything is merit based. This is not. It's something

that. Is, the Holvorson family, a broader religious culture

that says the exact opposite. Which is what, Emily? And what's

the name for that? Total depravity. Original sin. Right. Anybody

heard of original sin? Heard that, Ross. We're talking about this

again? Yeah. Because those messages stick. We started out the

story of Christianity always with Genesis 3 instead of with Genesis

1. The story always and forevermore starts with is about

original goodness. Yes. I'm with your name again. Paul. Sorry.

Paul. Good to see you again, man. I'm with Paul. I'm a sinner.

I am. That message stuck with me, and I'm okay with it because

I know me. I will have thoughts and probably while I'm talking

to you, that don't reflect God's goodness. While I'm talking

to you, I'm Thinking about my neighbor, probably, and I'm gonna

prove him wrong. But then he's gonna win. I'm gonna go around to

every dandelion and squirt something on it. Be like, do you

see this, pal? And he's gonna be like, I do see it. Good job. In

my mind, I'm winning. In his mind, he's like, I got him to do

what I want him to do. I'm good at this. Right. It's possible

to be originally good and also prone to do the very thing I don't

want to do. Yeah. What else? This. Okay. Thank you. Thank you,

online people. Charles. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. Interesting. Yeah. We're

gonna transition on Charles comment like. So this is what we're

talking about. Many of us can say, I'm with this in theory. And

that's the problem. That's the problem which. Which, like, religion

is trying. That's what we're trying to solve is. Is move it from

theory to truth in our hearts. Not just about us, but about every

person we meet. Right? It's core value number one of heaven,

earth, church. We want to meet people where they are and see them

as gods. Do you know this? And see them as what? God's masterpiece.

We get that from Ephesians 2:10. The word is like God's handiwork.

Ephesians 2:10

The Greek word is poema. Like every human being is a work of God's

poetry. That sounds so beautiful in theory, doesn't it?

But then, like, you go to work, right? Or you see somebody's

Facebook post, or you look at yourself in the mirror, and that's

the challenge, right? This is what Paul says. Everything is made

to reflect the glory of God. But now he says in First Corinthians

13. You know what this chapter is about, don't you? It's out of

every four out of ten weddings, this gets read. Yes. I

just made that statistic up, by the way. Don't go quote it. Like,

I heard at church that 4 out of 10 weddings quote this. That's

not true. I just made it up. It's accurate. Thank you. He's done

this whole thing, all these people in Corinth. It was like the

Las Vegas of Greece. All kinds of crazy stuff going on. Would have

made great reality tv. And they're fighting with each other

so much. We act like divisions and polarization are a new thing.

It was the minute the church was born, polarization and division

were born. Too. Why? We are originally good, and we're also good

at sinning. That's pretty accurate. People started dividing

into camps, saying our camp is the camp that's reflecting God's

image. That camp over there, Satan is over there. And Paul, like,

he has this whole letter where he's like, hey, I gotta bring you

back. And this whole chapter is like, no matter what we do, the

one thing that we're trying to be about is love. That's why he says

all this stuff. He's trying to restore what is good. He's trying

to get these people to grow what is good rather than continue

to grow what is divisive and toxic and of hate. He said, but the

issue now is, like, what's hard is now we see a reflection in

a mirror. That's. He talks about how we look in this mirror.

His. His analogy is that we look into it and it's like a dim

reflection we're not seeing clearly right now. That's what makes

it hard about our human existence. We look in the mirror.

We don't look in the mirror first thing in the morning and go

like, man, look at that image bearer right there. More like, man,

my hair looks really bad right now. My dad had the best morning

hair ever, every day. Looked like a mad scientist growing up.

Looked like he was nuts. You know, you look in the mirror and

you see your faults, you see your. Your ugliness. But not just

in the morning. You see it throughout the whole day. The way

you talk to yourself, the way you evaluate yourself, the way that

you're giving yourself an examination, right? And then you

project that onto other people. Hurting people, hurt people,

Right? It's the story of humankind hurting, suffering, traumatized

people. Hurt and traumatized people. Paul says the challenge is

like, we're looking into a mirror. And right now, in this existence,

it's like the mirror is cloudy. We can't see clearly what's

really true. And so that's why we create all these idols. The Bible's

obsessed with idols. It's just something to which we give our trust

in our allegiance. That's not worth it. It's not worthy of it.

We create these things that we worship to feel better about ourselves.

We're acting out of our shame. We're acting out of our insecurity.

And we create idols because we don't believe that everything that

we need is already established. I don't need to hustle

for worth. I'm rich in God's eyes. But we hustle, hustle, hustle,

hustle, hustle to get what we believe we don't yet have. But Jesus

says, what you already like want in the depths of your soul you

have because God has declared it. I watched a video on Bible Project

that was about the image of God. And they just saying that God

commands us not to make images because God already made images of

himself. I'll say that again. God says for you not to make images

because God has already made images of himself. Do you know who

that is? Raise your hand. Go on. Come on, participate along with

me. You're the images. Jesus came very simply. You are good. You

are good in God's eyes. Jesus comes to restore it, to redeem it.

And he sends the Holy Spirit into your life. He ignites you to

grow what is good, so that on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

Friday, Saturday, you're acting out of the restored image

and you are helping others to believe it too. Dave, Job one is

to let Jesus transform you so you believe it about you again. And

then Job two is to go out and grow what is good with Jesus. But

it's hard, isn't it? But we're made. Our entire destiny, folks,

our entire destiny is this. We have been like, Jesus is calling

us to start working a harvest. He says it in so many ways. This

is Paul, not Jesus. Jesus says, the harvest is ripe, it's ready

to be worked. I just don't have enough workers. All my workers

are doing something else over here. They're working on their careers.

They're working on their getting a raise. They're working

on hustling for their worth. They're over here doing their living

life. And Jesus, like, over here is life. You are made to work

the harvest of the new creation. Your entire joy is in it.

Your purpose is in it. Paul is telling people in another. Another

group of people that were running amok after he visited them

in Galatia. He's trying to bring them back to like, remember

what your life is for. It's for growing what is good with Christ.

The chapter before this, he said, like, let the Spirit dwell

in you so that you grow the fruits of. Let's see how many we

can name. There's nine of them. He says, grow these fruits.

Come on. There's one. Love, joy, peace, patience. Ah. Hey, really

quick. Do you notice how patience is number four on the list?

Paul's like, attacking us. Love, joy, peace, patience. Keep

going. Goodness, do you see? Goodness is in there. Keep going.

Self, control, faithfulness. Gentlemen, we did it. Give yourselves

a round of applause. Yeah, you know them intellectually. The question

is, can you, can you cultivate them spiritually? That's the entire

journey of the Christian, you can recite the verse Paul's saying,

like, don't give up, though this world is filled with hate, this

world is good at making people forget they are made in God's image.

This world forms people in growing what is not good. Let's not

get tired of doing good, because in time, we'll have a harvest

if we don't give up. So over the next weeks, one, we're inviting

you to grow some fruit at home. Everybody. If all you got is

one tomato plant at home, good. Everybody do it. One tomato

plant or one basil plant, and all you bring is one bag of basil,

fine, that's fine. But we want to invite you on a journey the next

several weeks throughout this gardening season to grow some literal

fruit that you bring back to the community, but also grow some

fruit that you eat at home. And as you do it, you think about,

like, how, man, this is what I'm made to do. I'm made to cultivate

and harvest fruit with Jesus. I'm made to grow what is good. What's

this stirring in you? PT PT Once had a rabbi say that the difference

between Christians and Jewish folk is that a fundamental Jewish

belief is that we always have God's breath in us. And so we are

good. We're sustained by God's breath. Next week, we're going to

look at Genesis 2, where God breathes into the human being to

make them alive. Sometimes the story that's dominated Christianity

is that we've lost it and we have to do something to earn it back.

Adam. Yeah, right. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So. So maybe part of what you're

saying is, like, believing that we're originally good doesn't

mean that we just don't care at all about the weeds that can grow

up in the garden. Yeah. It's not just like, all like, hey, everything

will work out if we just believe we're originally good. No,

there. There really are some legitimate kind of threats to our

life of cultivating and harvesting fruit that we kind of

have to grow in wisdom about discernment. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

What else? What's astern in you? This is making you think, feel,

want to do, makes you want to dance. When you're dancing, you're

not, like, thinking, yeah, it's like the wedding conundrum.

People are like, I'm not going out and dancing on that wedding floor

because all the people sitting at the tables are going to watch

me and see that, like, I'm not a great dancer, you know? And so,

like, we've forgotten the points we're up there like wondering

who's evaluating our dancing skills. The point is to celebrate

the wedding. Who cares what you look like? Yeah, what's a stern

in you? What's it make you think? Sorry, I just told you what

I think. At weddings, maybe that's not how you are. I have to

be like, oh wait, nevermind, I don't care. I'm just here to celebrate.

What else? Anybody else? Let's not get tired of doing good because

in time we'll have a harvest if we don't give up. Let's talk about

the next several weeks, about growing what is good. Let's pray.

God, thank you that you've gathered us here today. But more

so thank you for creating life in some mystery. We believe this

idea, this truth that we're made in your image to reflect your

beauty and glory. Help our unbelief in the coming weeks. Help

us to walk with you and to grow in the spirit and to cultivate

fruit that is good for us and good for others. In Jesus name, amen.

Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven

Earth Church. Your next opportunity to do so live is this

Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at

309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.

That'[email protected] heavenerthchurch the audio podcast

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We want to thank you for spending time with us today. My name

is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may

think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith

story may just be beginning. If you want more information about

our church or you're interested in the next step, you

can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being

with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.