A Conversation with Dave McMillan| HeavenEarth Church Stories

What would it look like to start a community that was really,

it's for the people like Jesus would be for?

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.

I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.

From the start, our heart has been to be a church for people who

don't fit neatly into church.

We want to meet people where they are and know their stories.

Because in every story, there is God story.

And this podcast is just about that.

It's about inviting you into the stories of the people of Heaven

Earth Church.

So let's turn to the story.

Hello, good people.

Brad Miller here with the Heaven Earth Church podcast.

This is a church that's looking to make a lasting impact

in our community.

One of the things we love to do is talk to people who are part

of the community.

And one of those folks who's a part of the community here is.

Is Dave McMillan.

So, Dave, welcome and let's just start here.

Dave, where are you from?

What's hometown for you?

Hometown is Bloomington, Indiana.

Really?

Well, tell me a little bit about growing up in Bloomington.

What was your like, what was home life like for you there?

Love Bloomington.

Love Bloomington.

I grew up on the near west side, so I was a couple miles from

IU's campus.

It's just, it had a really nice hometown feeling.

But it was definitely, you know, in the fall and the winter

was definitely different than the summers in Bloomington because,

I mean, you got 30 some thousand students that, you know,

leave in the summer.

So it kind of turned into that small southern Indiana town in the

summer.

But then that changed a lot.

But it was great.

I mean, you know, things I think back on.

I remember riding my bicycle around the town square while they

were filming the movie Breaking away in the 1970s.

I remember running into, not literally, but running into Michael

Jordan, Patrick ewing, Waymond Tisdale, 1984, at a movie theater

because Bob Knight was the Olympic coach in 1984.

I remember seeing John Cougar Mellencamp riding his Harley up and

down Kirkwood so many times.

So a lot of good memories.

You know, Bloomington's a great place.

Graduated from Bloomington north high school in 1983.

Wow.

Well, that's awesome.

And then, so tell me a little bit about how brought up there.

What kind of career, family.

Tell us a little bit about that in terms of moving into your

adult years.

Yeah, so after I graduated from high school, I went to Butler

University from 1983-87, and I ran cross country and track in high

school.

I continued that at Butler University and then got a Degree

in secondary education.

So right after I graduated from Butler, immediately got a job

in January of 1988 at Whiteland High School, which is just

across the street from the church.

And I actually spent 33 years there as a teacher, school counselor

and a coach, social studies teacher.

So I taught everything from US Government to psychology, sociology,

geography.

But I really, really enjoyed my career there.

I was a teacher until the early 2000s, and I kind of transitioned

into school counselor and I coached cross country and track.

So the relationships with colleagues, other teachers, and especially

students I had during that time, you know, last a lifetime.

Actually, one of my best friends is actually Evan Fruits,

who I think we all know here at church.

And I coached Evan and remained friends with him, you know,

after he graduated.

When I think back, my accountant is a former student person

who services my car as a former student.

So those connections that you make.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Area here.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Tell me about family.

I've been married to my wife Beth.

It'll be going on 19 years in July.

And we live on the south side, Perry Township.

And I have a son, Connor, who is 27.

And my daughter Claire is 34.

And I have son in law Nate, who's around the same age, 34, 35.

And then I have a grandson, Ben, who is 3 years old that I watch

every Monday.

So Claire, my daughter's son in law and grandson are real close.

Connor lives in Bloomington.

And Connor actually was the individual that got me started going

to Heaven Earth Church.

My son did.

So he tell me how that.

Yeah, yeah, let's start going that direction.

How Connor approached you.

But.

Well, before you go there, tell me a little bit, did you have

much of a religious upbringing?

Anything along that line, relationship with Christ, relationship

with the church before we get into heaven?

I really didn't growing up.

I would occasionally go to church, but it wasn't something that

we did every weekend or every Sunday.

So I really didn't grow up in a church home atmosphere.

And then later on, I would say probably in the mid-1990s, I started

attending a church again.

And to be honest with you, it wasn't a good experience.

It just.

I didn't feel comfortable.

Okay.

Just wasn't.

It's hard to explain, but I just felt.

Felt judged.

And so I just stopped going and didn't go to church at all until

I heard about Heaven Earth.

Well, let's go there then.

Yeah.

Your background was sporadic.

Sporadic, so to speak.

Growing up in.

In your adult years tries to mature experience and so someone

other your Son Connor got you involved.

Tell me the story of kind of how that evolved for you and Connor

and coming here.

So Connor started coming to Heaven Earth, I think from almost

its beginning.

And I know he went to.

I know he started going to Ross and Angela's house.

They had group, I think it was on Thursday nights.

So he started talking to me a lot about it.

And I also, Evan Fruits, who, it's a good friend of mine, was going

to Heaven Earth.

So Connor and Evan knew each other.

They had that connection.

And so Connor just started talking to me about it.

He said, dad, this is a really neat church.

I feel really comfortable here.

Everybody's so nice.

And so I'm thinking, you know, I need to try this out.

You know, my son likes it.

I've talked to Evan about it.

So it was right, I think it was right after the pandemic.

So 2021.

2020 2021.

The reason I say that is because I remember one of the first

time I came to Heaven Earth, we actually had the service outside.

So we were still meeting outside.

Exactly.

And give me some first impressions.

Then you had your.

What Connor and Evan shared with you about the church.

But then you had to take the initial step to come and check it

out for yourself.

So tell me a little bit about first impressions.

First impression was that I just really felt kind of at home.

It was a very.

Everybody was so approachable and you know, when I first met Ross,

you know, I can just tell that, you know, this place, it's

different than the experiences I've had in the past.

And, and can you be specific about.

Maybe one point or two points there, but how it was different from

what you'd experienced in the past?

I felt like with Heaven Earth, we have conversations, it's in a

non threatening setting.

Everybody feels comfortable.

It's not a performance.

And I just felt at peace when I started coming here.

So I just continued to come.

So tell me, was there somewhere along the line after period

of time of kind of checking it out, you kind of had an aha moment

or a moment when you said, okay, this is the place for me.

I don't, I can't think of it, of a particular moment.

Okay.

The one thing that stands out for me is, and it's hard for me sometimes

to put, put it into words, but it's a feeling I have on Sundays

from the time I get up in the morning until the time I go to bed.

And it is just this.

I keep using the word peace, but this feeling of peace that I

have Experiencing whatever sermon we're doing, having that conversation,

reflecting on it throughout the day.

And that keeps me coming back.

And what I'm trying to, I guess, work on right now is that

feeling that I have on Sundays, carrying that through the

week, which is hard.

Sure, that's a challenge.

But it sounds like what I like to ask our folks is what keeps them

coming back.

And you've touched on that a little bit here.

You're here, but what keeps you here.

And it sounds like this feeling that you need to get reconnected

every week, so to speak, in order to meet those challenges of

the week.

Yes.

Is that a fair thing to say?

No.

That's a good way to describe it.

Yeah.

So tell me how some of your experiences here may have helped

you to do that.

Maybe if you've had a.

Whatever, a midweek challenge, whatever you're involved with, maybe

something that has been a part of your experience here that's been

helpful to you and to respond to day, to day life.

Well, I think my experiences coming to Heaven Earth and being

part of the conversations and reflecting on those have helped me

maybe slow down.

Okay.

And when things are stressful, whether it's related to work, family,

you know, whatever life, to be able to take a step back and not

be so reactive.

And it's also helped me not be so judgmental of other people.

I think that's one of the things.

And I wasn't a judgmental person.

But just before you develop an opinion about somebody, kind of think

about where they're coming from instead of only your own thought?

Yeah.

Well, here at Heaven Earth Church, I know that you've been involved

with.

You've mentioned for several years now, four or five years, and

I know that you've been involved with various aspects of

the church.

Have you had all what I might call an emotional moment or a lump

in the throat moment when you thought, you know, this is very.

What's happening here is very meaningful in such a way that is

a bit transformative.

You know what I mean by that?

So give me a sample of what a moment like that might have been

like for you, if any.

You know, we've been talking a lot about the Holy Spirit and the

Holy Spirit within us, and I'm glad Ross kept those pictures up

of the flame because I've been reflecting on that a lot lately,

is that we all have that, but in some of us it's just bursting.

And in others it's kind of like that pilot light.

It's just flickering.

And I've had Times, not only at church, but at home, especially

during quiet times where I have that.

I guess you would call.

Somebody referred to it once as like a.

A Holy Spirit, like, thump.

That feeling where there's, you know, you're just overwhelmed

with like.

Of happiness, satisfaction, peace.

And I. I kind of describe that as that pilot light, like the.

The heater comes on or whatever, and that flame comes up.

I've had those moments, and not all the time, and I can't explain

why they came.

And, you know, it's just that I've had these times in my life where

I'm like, yeah, this is it.

The Bible describes those type of moments of fanging the spark into

a flame.

Exactly.

And I think that's what you and a lot of other folks have experience

with heaven through the church about taking that bit of the Holy

Spirit, the flame, the pilot light, I think is a great analogy

there and then finding a way to, you know, turn up a little bit

and have some opportunities there.

And so that's about life change and sound like your life has

changed to the better for the most part in your life and your ongoing

part of the life of the church here.

One of the things that.

One of the phrases that's used to describe some folks here at Heaven

Earth Church is the phrase.

It's something like if you feel like you don't fit in church,

you fit here.

First of all, do you think it's accurate?

And if so, how.

Oh, it is definitely Heaven Earth welcomes.

You know, we're all God's children, so we should welcome everybody.

It doesn't matter.

And that's what I love about it.

That's what I love about this church.

It's so accepting, and it just, to me, falls right in line

with the way Jesus walked on this earth and, you know, was accepting

of everybody.

You know, went to the poor, went to the disabled.

And that's the connection I have here with this church.

It just seems like it's.

Have you seen an example for someone that for whatever reason,

may have been not connected someplace else, that you saw an example

of someone who you felt was really being accepted and loved and

cared for here?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, multiple examples.

Yeah.

And I've talked to some people who felt like sometimes we're brought

up with this idea that it's hard to explain sometimes, but I

had someone tell me once that said, I just don't feel like I'm

worthy to attend church.

Well, no, that's not the way to look at it.

And I felt that way earlier, but now through recent experiences,

I've learned that's not it.

That's not how you approach it.

Yeah.

So that's awesome.

You see an example of that.

Your own life is exactly a perfect example of that.

For whatever reason you said not a good experience in church and

now you're having a good experience in church and it's led

to.

You have some spiritual enlightenment.

You talk about fanning into flames.

Do you feel like you've found a pathway or growing spiritually

while you've been a part of the church here?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

And it's a process and I want to continue to grow because I have

so much more.

I think we all do, to learn and to experience and to feel.

But yeah, I really feel comfortable here.

I like, you know, and the other thing is about this church

is it's all about service, serving the community and again,

you know, aligns right with what Jesus was doing, serving others.

Well, let's talk about that for a second here.

There's a banner that's in the church and on the church website

that says basically we exist to make a lasting impact in our community.

So how's the church doing at that and if so, what are some of

the ways it's doing that?

Well, I think the building itself is doing it, you know, and

Ross has talked about it, where the building and sharing space

with other organizations that purpose is to help others who, you

know, maybe can't help themselves.

So I think just the building itself, I think what the church has

done, you know, in the community, I remember, you know,

something that just kind of stands out with me is after the tornadoes

came through Whiteland, I believe that was probably two years

ago.

Maybe, you know, this church was a station, an area where people

could come and pick up everyday things, things they need,

you know, parents could, you know, I remember lining the pews

with diapers, all different sizes and you know, food and things

like that.

It's just that one of the things I love about this church is

when, when, when people need help, this, this church will step

up.

Yeah, let's talk for a second about connecting to the community.

We're talking about these kind of mission oriented projects, but

how the community, making it livestream back to the community

also means to be invitational and also accepting as you've mentioned

several times here.

So is this the type of church that you would feel comfortable inviting

people in your own life, like your son invited you people in your

own life, people you may have worked with or have some social connection

with or whatever would you feel comfortable inviting someone

to the church here who's having some challenge in life, whatever

it is, health, relationship, whatever.

Would you feel comfortable inviting him?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And if so, then to go a little further with that.

Why?

And what would be some of the factors that you would say to your,

you know, to your person, relationship with who's not connected

to the church or maybe had a bad experience?

Why would you invite them specifically here?

I think it's because of what I've experienced, and that is it's

such a welcoming environment.

There's no judgment here.

Everybody's welcome.

Doesn't matter where you come from, where you've been, what you've

been through.

It's just we're all here, you know, to worship, to serve, and,

you know, there's not one time where, you know, that's what I would

tell somebody where I felt, you know, intimidated or uncomfortable

at this church because it's just.

It's just such a welcoming environment.

Well, that's awesome.

Welcoming environment is a great way to put it.

And just one more question for one more opportunity for you just

to.

To share anything you might want to share with anyone who might

see this, who's kind of checking out heaven or church and

kind of thinking, okay, then, what is this really all about?

What would you want to share with that person in terms of your

experience, or what would you want to share with them?

If I had to share anything, it would be, again, reflecting back

on my own experience.

Don't be afraid to just take that step.

Just take that first step.

You never know what's going to happen after that.

And that's kind of what I did.

And there's still many, many more steps I need to take that will

help me with this journey.

But that's pretty much what I would tell other people, is just

don't be afraid to just check it out and see what you think.

And I got a pretty good feeling that you'll come away, you

know, feeling pretty good.

Awesome.

Take that first step.

Yeah, Great.

Great way to put it.

Well, thank you for being our guest here today.

His name is David McMillan, a part of the Heaven Earth Church community,

and he's been our guest here today on the Heaven Earth Church

podcast.

My name is Brad Miller, inviting you always to check out

the church at our website, heavenearthchurch.org blessings.

We'll see you next time here on Heaven Earth Church Podcast.

We want to thank you for spending time with us today.

My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church,

and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact,

your faith story may just be beginning.

If you want more information information about our church or you're

interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org

otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven

Earth Church Podcast.