Sunday Conversation: Ecclesiastes: The Frustrating, Worthy Search for Meaning

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.

My name is Ross Stackhouse.

I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.

From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who

don't fit neatly into church.

Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories,

to honor their stories.

Because in every human story is God's story.

In this podcast you'll hear more about the people who now call

Heaven Earth Church home.

Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or

rediscovering faith.

If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org

Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.

Hello good people.

Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.

One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth

Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding

pastor Ross Stackhouse.

You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenorthchurch.

The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available

here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify

and on the website, which is heavenerthchurch.org Here is heaven

Earth Church pastor Ross Stackhouse with the message Ecclesiastes

the frustrating worthy search for meaning.

Lord, I just ask that you would fortify our trust in you.

If it's just up to our human minds and perspective, it's going

to be hard for us to get there.

With your help, we can have faith that moves mountains.

And so we're asking for that.

In Jesus name, Amen.

So do you know what that is there?

It's called grass.

It's this green stuff that it grows from the ground and, and, and

if you can believe it, it grows high enough that people take

these things called mowers and they mow it in the summer and stuff.

I don't think we're going to see grass again for a while.

Adam loves that, apparently.

Good for you, Adam.

But today we are gonna.

We're starting a new series of conversations that has to do with

the stuff that's on that grass there.

There's a word in Hebrew that this, this teacher in this book uses

repeatedly that is like that.

I'll go straight to it right now.

It's a really.

This guy seems really hopeful.

The words of the teacher of the assembly, David's son, king in

Jerusalem.

He's got some lovely words to share with you.

Are you ready?

Perfectly pointless, says the teacher.

Perfectly pointless.

Everything is pointless.

Yay.

Aren't you glad you came to church today.

He uses that word right there.

I'm honestly, I don't think that's a very good translation.

It really means, like, something like dew on the grass,

that everything is like that.

It's like one minute you.

You look at something and you observe it and it's beautiful.

Then you turn around and then you look back and it's gone.

The dew evaporates.

And so he's frustrated as we're going to see that, like, everything.

He's searching for something that's reliable, something steadfast,

something true, something you can count on.

And he just goes through the search and everything, everything

he says, when I just keep looking at it all, all of it is that

havel.

Dew on the grass, it evaporates.

I'm sick of it.

There's nothing you can count on.

Nothing is reliable.

Everything is meaningless.

Do you feel that way at all?

Do you relate to that?

I'd love to hear from you.

Do you relate to his feelings at times circumstantially.

Okay.

When you relate to him, why do you.

Why do you feel that way?

What gets you to this point where you're like, tucker, I would

love it.

I'm an over complicator, bro.

That's what I do.

Tucker throws in this possibility, if it's a multiverse,

there's always a possibility in some other universe, you made

a different choice.

So I'm just gonna throw that in there this morning.

Okay?

Actually, I didn't.

Tucker, did we think the same dude?

Yep.

Yeah.

Was it even worth it?

I did all this hard work.

It's in here.

Yep.

What else?

When you.

When you.

If you feel this way.

When you feel this way.

Why?

There's nothing that's reliable.

Everything is fleeting.

There's nothing you can count on.

Does anything have any meaning that's worth it?

It doesn't have to be a negative thing.

Always.

Can you say more about that, Ava?

Oh, did you read the Cliff Notes on this book?

This is literally one of the things he says in here.

If nothing matters, then just kind of do what makes you happy or

do what you want, you know?

Have you ever heard the phrase, eat, drink and be merry?

Guess where it comes from?

This book.

The phrase comes from this book.

What?

Sorry?

The book of Ecclesiastes.

I'm going to introduce it properly in a minute.

If you're a Dave Matthews fan, eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow

we die.

If you don't like Dave Matthews, you're like, this sucks.

I'm not coming to church anymore.

Yeah, sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Sorry.

I'm sorry, man.

That's what comes to mind.

We're going to start.

We're going to do this series as sort of an extension of our last

series where we talked about finding the Bible to be holy again,

rediscovering the power and beauty of the scriptures.

I wanted to take you into a book of the Bible that's different.

It's very different to help you, like, see that we're talking

about a library of scriptures and we don't engage them all the

same.

So this one is very unique because it's part of something called

the wisdom literature.

It's the book of Ecclesiastes.

It's attributed to a guy by the name of Solomon, though, to be

honest with you.

Did he probably write this by himself?

No, it's a community of people gathering wisdom and expressing a

struggle.

That, yes, is sourced with him largely, but together they were trying

to compile a perspective.

And the wisdom literature includes Ecclesiastes, another book,

you may have heard of it called Job, or heard of that one.

Another book called Proverbs.

It's called the Wisdom Literature.

But really, what this section of the library is like, if you had

to describe it, it's in a sentence.

It's like, we thought we knew, but now we know we don't.

That's kind of what the wisdom literature is like.

So, for example, Job is all about, like, there's this super righteous

guy, right?

And all this suffering comes upon him, this terrible, brutal suffering,

and his friends, whom Job will call miserable comforters, anybody

got friends like that?

They come up to him, he's lost everything, and they're like, hey,

Job, what did you do, man?

Because you must.

You've done something to deserve this.

Why did they say that?

Because their framework, their understanding of how the world works

with God is that if you're righteous, you're blessed.

If you're wicked, you're cursed.

And guess what?

They didn't make that up out of thin air.

It's expressed in the first five books of the Bible.

The wisdom literature is like, you know, maybe that isn't how the

world works.

So his friends keep coming back to him.

They're like, hey, what did you do?

Bad stuff doesn't happen to righteous people.

And Job is like, look, listen, I might have done something, but

there's nothing I could have done to deserve this.

He loses his family, he loses everything.

And in the end, he's faithful, right?

And he gets a new family, and he Gets new stuff.

Everything is solved, right?

No, Come on.

If you lost everything you loved and you got replacements, would

you be cool with it?

This is where the Christian church has stunk.

It's not been any good.

We turned off our brains when we engaged.

The scripture job ends with a mystery.

And that's the point of the wisdom literature.

It is a space for reflecting on what you thought you knew, but

now you're not so sure of.

Ecclesiastes is like that too.

This person is like, everything is pointless.

The things that I thought had meaning don't.

And so I want to take you on a tour through the book one because

I want to help you be exposed to another section of the library

of scriptures to teach you that you don't read them all the

same.

But also, this is such a good book for our time.

So good.

So, hey, let's take a tour through this guy's lovely perspective.

What do you say?

Aren't you excited to hear all this pessimism?

Let's.

What?

What was that?

I'll tell you.

Yeah, the Cliff note, the spoiler alert.

Everything is meaningless.

Okay.

That's the spoiler alert.

Okay.

All right, let's.

Let's do it.

I am the teacher.

I was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

So again, this is attributed to a guy by the name of Solomon,

who is regarded as the wisest king in the history of Israel.

He was the son of King David, the greatest king in the history

of Israel.

At one time, Israel was a united monarchy.

Solomon is the last king, I believe, of the united monarchy.

And then it divided into two north and south.

The northern kingdom was destroyed by the Assyrians in 722

BC.

The southern kingdom was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586

BC.

When that stuff happened, people were asking questions.

How does the world actually work?

I thought we were favored.

Here's his reflections.

I am the teacher.

I was the king over Israel.

I applied my mind to investigate and explore by wisdom

all that happens under heaven.

It's an unhappy obsession that God has given to human beings.

Amen, brother.

I'm sick of being so darn analytical.

When I observed all that happens under the sun, I realized

that everything is pointless.

Did I tell you that?

That is the conclusion here.

A chasing after the wind.

It's all like dew on the grass.

What's crooked can't be straightened.

What isn't there can't be counted.

I said to myself, look here, I've grown much wiser than any who

ruled over Jerusalem before me.

My mind has absorbed great wisdom and knowledge.

But when I set my mind to understand wisdom and also understand

madness and folly, I realized this, too was just wind chasing.

Remember, in much wisdom is much aggravation.

The more knowledge, the more pain.

Amen, brother.

I said, oh, we're not there yet.

Yeah.

So even the pursuit of wisdom, Is there any point to it?

No, everything is all right.

We'll get used to this.

We're going to get better.

Everything is.

Yes, that's right.

I said to myself, this is chapter two.

Now, I will make.

Come.

I will make you experience pleasure, Enjoy what is good.

But this, too, was merriment, I thought, is madness.

Pleasure of no use at all.

I tried cheering myself with wine by embracing folly.

In other words, I just started to party.

I figured it's all meaningless.

Eat, drink and be merry.

And when he says drink, he means a lot of it.

Until I might see what is really worth doing.

In the few days that human beings have under heaven, I took

on great projects.

I built houses for myself.

I planted vineyards for myself.

I made gardens and parks for myself, planting every kind of fruit

tree in them.

I made reservoirs for myself to water my lush groves.

I acquired male servants and female servants.

I even had slaves born in my house.

I also had great herds of cattle and sheep, more than any who

preceded me in Jerusalem.

Do you like this guy?

Very much.

There's a point to that, too.

You're supposed to be like, oh, this fella.

I amassed silver and gold for myself, the treasures of kings and

provinces.

I acquired male and female singers for myself.

He had backup singers to his backup singers, along with every

human luxury, Treasure chests galore.

So I became far greater than all who preceded me in Jerusalem.

Moreover, my wisdom stood by me.

I refrained from nothing that my eyes desired.

I refused my heart no pleasure.

Indeed, my heart found pleasure from the results of my hard

work.

That was the reward from all my hard work.

But when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had

worked so hard to achieve, I realized that it was a chasing after

the wind.

Nothing is to be gained under the sun.

Oh, we ain't done.

Oh, can we be done with this pessimistic fellow already?

Christy, here you go.

I hated the things I worked so hard for because I'll have to leave

them to some schmuck.

He doesn't say that, but that's kind of his point.

And who knows whether that one will be wise or foolish.

I'll work so hard, and then I'll have to give it to this person

who Might be a complete moron.

That, too is.

All right.

I thought you were with me.

That, too is.

Yes.

And so then I gave myself to despair.

If everything's pointless, I may as well just like, wallow in

despair.

Anyone ever get there?

Yeah, I've been there recently, a little bit, as I thought

about all my laborious hard work under the sun.

Because sometimes those who have worked hard with wisdom, knowledge

and skill must leave the results of their hard work as a possession

to those who haven't worked hard for it.

This, too is.

It's a terrible wrong.

I mean, what do people get for all their hard work and struggles

under the sun?

All their days are pain and their work is aggravation.

And even at night, their hearts don't find rest.

This, too is.

What a lovely guy.

Chapter five What'd you say?

Bobo, Aren't you so happy you came to church today?

Here's why I want to do this.

What if you're in your own time and you say to yourself, I really

actually want to engage the library of scriptures.

I want to try to find them to be holy again.

And you come across this, I want you to have stronger muscles

for it.

I want you to be able to do it.

Because this is.

All this kind of stuff is all over the Bible.

I want to help you have confidence to find the beauty and

power of the scriptures again.

And there is beauty and power in these words.

We'll see it.

Chapter five.

We're almost done.

I swear.

The tour is almost done.

We're just in chapter five now.

Watch your steps.

When you go to God's house, it's.

It's more acceptable to listen than to offer the full sacrifice.

They have no idea that they're acting wrongly.

In other words, he goes to church and he's like, even this stinks.

All these people are doing this religious stuff and they look

like idiots.

Isn't he an exciting fellow?

Don't be quick with your mouth or say anything hastily before God,

because God is in heaven, but you are on earth.

Therefore let your words be few.

He's starting to be a little bit wise, actually.

Remember, dreams come with many cares and the voice of fools

with many words.

When you make a promise to God, fulfill it without delay.

Because God has no pleasure in fools.

Fulfill what you promise.

Better not to make a promise than to make a promise without fulfilling

it.

Again, he saw all these people making promises, these big grand

promises, and then they weren't fulfilling it.

Don't let your mouth make a center of you, and don't Make.

Don't say to the messenger it was a mistake.

Otherwise God may become angry at such talk and destroy what you've

accomplished.

Remember, when dreams multiply, so do thoughts and excessive

speech.

Therefore fear God.

If you witness the poor being oppressed or the violation of what

is just as and right in some territory, don't be surprised because

a high official watches over another word.

In other words, you better get used to seeing poor people get oppressed

with the kinds of folks we got in power.

I will keep going now.

When good things flow, so do those who consume them.

But what do owners benefit from such goods except to feast their

eyes on them?

Here's my irony for you.

We're done with the tour.

You made it.

Give yourself a round of applause.

You did it.

Aren't you glad you came to church today?

Here's the irony of this.

This guy's a big complainer.

You know what the irony is?

He was the first offender of all these things.

He complained about all these things.

All these things that he said were meaningless.

He was doing them as much or more than any other person.

This teacher was a big old fat hypocrite.

And yet God said to us, ross, I want you to study the diary of

this hypocrite and learn from it.

Isn't that cool that God would put such a thing in here?

God would breathe something into this that we need to investigate

for ourselves.

That's one of our greatest.

I'm going to turn it over to you in a minute.

I think I have three frustrations that I think here that

I think lead to us sometimes feeling like we're lost in meaninglessness.

There are three things that for me, I think we get stuck in that

keep us mired in this feeling like he feels like there's no point

to anything.

There's nothing you can rely on, there's nothing you can count

on.

And he is number one for me.

Hypocrisy.

What does it mean if you're hypoglycemic?

Somebody who's a smart person.

Low what?

Hypocrisy literally means hypo.

You're low on criticism for yourself.

Now some of you are going, ross, I'm not low on criticism for

myself.

All I do is talk bad to myself.

But we vacillate.

We go from like, bad self talk to, like, hyper criticism for others.

So this guy is like, everybody is the worst when he's doing all

the stuff, more than anybody.

One of the things we struggle with as human beings is like, we

don't do Well, a lot of times with self examination because it's

hard to do it.

Especially like when life has been hard.

It's hard to look at yourself honestly in the mirror.

Do you know what's super easy?

Denial.

So like when there was a book that was called Unchristian and they

interviewed 16 to 29 year olds who considered themselves outside

of Christianity and 95% of them said that Christians are hypocritical,

I was like, well, yeah, but you are too.

That's not unique to Christians, that one I'm going to

give us a little bit of defense on.

Human beings are by nature hypocritical.

It's a hard thing to do.

I got two more reasons why I think we get stuck in this thing.

And then I want to ask you, why do you think we get stuck in

this like everything is meaningless stuff?

The second thing that I want to come, I want to tell you about

is what I call the SAT burden.

Like sat.

No, I don't mean the test.

I mean that where all of us.

I'll bet you I can get an amen on this.

Our sad, angry and tired.

Anybody in the room?

Sad, angry and tired.

When you're sad, angry and tired, it's hard to pay attention

to things that are worthy of paying attention to.

It's hard to find meaning in things.

When you're sad, angry and tired, it's easier to go, this is

all pointless.

Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

This book is for people who are sad, angry and tired.

The last one is it just becomes a cycle of pessimism.

Right?

Anybody stuck in a cycle of pessimism?

If you're not, by the way, if you're feeling joyful and meaningful

today, you don't got to come over to the SAD camp.

Okay?

Stay right where you are.

We want to catch up to you.

Okay, but like we get stuck in a pessimism cycle, we start paying

attention to the things that, that truly are worthy of despair.

But then that has a way of.

We, we put on the despair glasses and now everything looks

like it's of despair.

So we get, we get.

We're sad, angry and tired and pessimistic and hypocritical.

And then it just becomes this cycle where we just get deeper in

a pit.

Am I just talking about myself?

Past pessimism.

Sad, angry, tired, hypocritical.

Aren't we lovely people?

All right, what about you?

And then we'll.

We're going to find a word of hope today, I promise.

Why do you Think we.

I want to start.

Come back to the beginning.

Why do you think we get stuck sometimes, like, feeling like there's

just no point?

Kara, we have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

We.

We have access to so much information.

It is a truly, in some ways, a blessing and.

And one of the worst curses that has come to us.

Yep.

And the algorithm is geared towards making you sad, angry, and

tired.

Yep.

Can be.

It can be Regina for sure.

Right?

Yep.

Yep.

There's no time or space to suffer.

How many days do you get?

If you're in a.

In a company, how many days for grieving do you get?

Two for a spouse.

Yeah.

Three for a spouse.

Okay.

Plenty of time.

Yeah.

Take a.

Hey, hey.

Take the weekend and then we'll see on Monday.

World send flowers to the funeral.

Yeah.

That.

That's also why I want to show you the Bible.

I say this repeatedly.

40% of the Psalms are laments.

The Bible is a safe space of expressing sorrow.

This whole book is like, I don't know what to do with the world

anymore.

It's an invitation to face what's hard and to find God on the

other side.

Kara.

Yep.

Yeah.

The Jewish culture has much more space for grieving.

Weird thing.

Jesus was Jewish.

So he literally has.

Takes a moment like Jesus is grieving all the time.

In the New Testament, when his best friend Lazarus dies, he just

stops to weep with people he knows.

He's about to go over there and tell him to get up out of the

tomb.

But as he does, he rushed through the grieving.

No.

Jesus wept.

Yeah.

P.T.

yeah.

Yeah, sure.

So.

So we don't.

So maybe the way our family system has changed, the way our family

dynamic has changed.

We don't live with our elders as much to learn ways of going through

that kind of stuff.

Brad.

Yep.

Right.

Yep.

Yep.

So that's part of why I want to show you in this.

And we'll.

We'll transition on that point.

Is that, like, admire that what we have in front of us is.

Is like we're invading somebody's personal journal.

He's working through.

They are working through this, like, struggle for meaning.

It's an invitation for us to do the same.

Not to avoid it, but to actually process and move on.

And I want to show you that.

Hey, there actually are some good things that are.

That are interspersed in here.

I'll just show you.

We're not going to hit them the next two weeks.

We're going to look at specific things where he started

to identify.

Here is some meaningful stuff.

But I'm sure you've heard this before.

Maybe you didn't know it was from Ecclesiastes.

There's a season for everything and a time for every matter

under the heavens.

This is Ecclesiastes.

You ever heard this?

A time for giving birth and a time for dying.

A time for planting and a time for uprooting what is planted.

A time for killing and a time for healing.

A time for tearing down and a time for building up, so on and so

forth.

Part of what he, as he searched and he processed, he was

like, there is, like there is some sense of timing with God.

I don't know what it is.

He'll say that.

In fact, I'll fast forward to it.

Let's see, it's in 3, 11.

I want to say he's frustrated.

Did I tell you?

He says God has made everything fitting in its time.

There is a timing to this life.

There is a timing to when, like, things will get worked out.

And God has placed eternity in our hearts, but also without enabling

them to discover what God has done from the beginning to the end.

So he's starting to get to something like, eternity is in our

hearts.

Part of the reason we're frustrated is because eternity is

in our hearts.

Sometimes when you're frustrated with the way the world

is, I would invite you to not experience that as despair, but experience

it as a sign that God has planted something higher in you.

So if you're really displeased and you feel desperate about, like,

say, what's happening in the world, it is a sign that God has

placed eternity in your heart.

CS Lewis says, one of his evidence for God, he's like, some

of us have this intuitive sense of, like, the way things ought

to be, right?

CS Lewis says, where did you get that ought?

Where did you get that ought?

You didn't learn it from your fellow humans.

Deep inside you is eternity in your heart, a sense of the way things

ought to be.

He starts to grapple with that.

Keep going.

This is one of my favorite ones.

I do this at wedding.

The last wedding I did know, the second to last.

I read this one often.

One of the things he arrives at.

This is something I want to teach you about reading the Bible.

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is all about patterns.

So in this, what does he keep repeating?

Everything is, what are you still with me?

Everything is, pay attention when he says something.

When he doesn't say it.

That's something you do when you read the Bible.

When a pattern gets broken, pay attention.

And here, two are better than One because they have a good return

for their hard work.

If either should fall, one can pick up the other.

But how miserable are those who fall and don't have a companion

to help them up?

Like Regina said, we need a village.

Also, if to lie down together, they can stay warm.

But how can anyone stay warm alone?

Also, one can be overpowered, but two together can put up resistance.

A three ply cord doesn't easily snap.

I want you to read that part with me.

A three ply cord doesn't easily snap.

One of my favorite verses in the entire Bible is right there.

And it's buried in this book that you think is just being cynical

and pessimistic.

Does he say everything is pointless?

There a pattern got broken.

He's saying one thing I discovered is community is everything.

Can I get an amen?

That's why we show up here.

We're not trying to go through some religious performance.

I'm here today because I need you.

If I fall down by myself, I'm in deep trouble.

But when I fall down with you, I got a shot.

That's why we do this.

All right, so even I want to show you like this is the beauty

and the power of the scriptures.

Okay, just a couple more.

Actually, you know what?

Let's fast forward.

We need to go.

I want to give you a few things to take away with.

Take away with you.

Four and I'm done.

Okay?

Part of what this thing is teaching us is this point right here.

God breathed into the words of Ecclesiastes an invitation to us.

Be honest with your frustrations and contradictions.

Turn your life toward what is wise and worthy in God.

Don't give up the search.

Don't give in to despair.

Don't give in to pointless.

Like everything is pointless.

This guy keeps searching and so he finds some things that are.

He finds some things that are worth it.

So it's worth it to search for what is wise and worthy.

Do not give up.

Do it personally, but also do it in community.

Listen, I love all the people who are saying this.

Folks who say I believe in God and I don't need a church to do that.

I get why they're saying it.

I love them and they're dead wrong.

We need a village.

Two, don't be a hypocrite.

Easier said than done, right?

It's okay to be critical of what's happening.

Practice self examination with yourself.

Prayer journaling in groups and on Sundays.

Tell the truth about yourself.

Three, deal with that sat burden, sad, angry and tired in meaningful

Lasting ways.

Listen, I'm sure Candy Crush Saga is a great game or whatever

your favorite game is.

I'm getting a look from somebody in the front row.

Look, we can't do meaningful stuff all the time, all right?

I'm just like you sometimes.

I'm just re watching the same show that I've watched just to feel

comfortable.

We're re watching Grantchester right now.

It's about this good looking vicar who solves murders.

I relate to him a lot.

Come on.

I, I, I, I have a little room for some fun.

Somebody on the live stream, I don't even know who it was last week

said that I looked old so I needed to make a comeback.

Did you see that?

I love you.

Whoever that was.

They said you look teacher old.

I don't know what that means.

Whatever.

We can't, we can't always do meaningful, profound, analytical

stuff.

We need times to just rest.

But if that's all we ever do, we won't stop being sad, angry and

tired.

This right here is a meaningful, lasting way to deal with

being sad, angry and tired.

So keep doing it.

You guys chose to get up today when it was like negative 50 or whatever

it is outside.

Praise God.

This still matters so much and I'm so thankful for it.

And lastly, this one's an easy one.

Fear God.

What?

I'm going to give you the spoiler alert.

In the end, he's like, that's all we got to do.

Proffer says at the beginning of the wisdom begins with it's.

It's fearing God doesn't mean like oh my God.

God is like this wrathful lightning bolt throwing thing up

in the cloud.

No, it means like have a profound reverence for the one who

made all things keep trying to turn toward him.

It doesn't mean like scary fear, like horror movie kind of thing.

It means like have a profound respect, reverence and pursuit for

the holy things of God.

Keep doing it.

All right, I'm done.

Let's pray.

God, thank you for showing us in the scriptures that it's okay

to wrestle with what is meaningless.

It's okay to whine and complain.

Help us in our search.

Help us to search and to find you.

Help us to have a right sized view of ourselves.

Help us to be a village in a safe space, to express sorrow, to

grieve and also to rejoice.

Help us to know what it even means to fear you.

In the name of Jesus, Amen.

Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven

Earth Church.

Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning 9:30am

Eastern time either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland,

Indiana or online at YouTube Live.

That'[email protected] heavenerthchurch the audio podcast

is is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.

You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast

by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star

rating and your review.

Instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.

You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org

we.

Want to thank you for spending time with us today.

My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church

and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact

your faith story may just be beginning.

If you want more information about our church or you're interested

in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise

we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth

Church Podcast.