Sunday Conversation: The Problem with Prayer...and the Power of It

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.

My name is Ross Stackhouse.

I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.

From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who

don't fit neatly into church.

Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories,

to honor their stories.

Because in every human story is God's story.

In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call

Heaven Earth Church home.

Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or

rediscovering faith.

If you want to know more about

us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we

invite you now into the story.

Hello, good people.

Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.

One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth

Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding

pastor Ross Stackhouse.

You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenearthchurch.

The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available

here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify

and on the website, which is heavenearthchurch.org now with the

message.

The problem with prayer and the power of it is Heaven Earth Church.

Pastor Ross Stackhouse.

Lord, speak to us now.

As we're trying to listen, we're trying to learn a spiritual

language with you.

So open our hearts, soften our hearts to receive the highest truths

of heaven.

In Jesus name, amen.

All right, I'm going to say a word that for some of you might be

a bad word online, too.

I know some of you stay home because of the winter.

You're just.

You're protesting against winter still being here.

And I feel that.

I feel that.

I want you to not censor it.

Well, I mean, unless there's a really bad word that comes to your

mind, maybe keep that to yourself.

I'm going to say a word and I want you to listen to the very first

thoughts that come to mind when I say it.

Okay?

Deal.

Is your mind clear?

Not really.

Here we go.

Prayer.

Confusion.

What else?

Peace.

We got confusion and peace.

Communication.

What was it?

Daily.

Okay.

Yeah.

Moves mountains.

Boring.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

What's that?

Talking to a friend.

Quiet time.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Not good.

Okay.

Okay.

Habitual.

Okay, Ellie.

Supplication.

And then easy.

Online, people.

Come on now, show us.

You're with us today.

Personal.

You could also share a feeling that you had when I said the word.

Don't be shy.

What's that hopeful.

Come on.

Somebody's holding back some, like not so great feelings about

it.

Only when convenient.

Thank you, Phil.

Impatient.

Transactional.

There we go.

Now we're getting out some of the good stuff.

Reactional.

Anyone else Depressing when you don't get the answer you want.

One sided.

Unsure.

Anything online, Adam?

Online people.

Hold on.

Heather Harris, let's hear from you.

Adam.

Hard sometimes.

Okay, thank you.

Anybody else?

Feels like a chore sometimes.

Anybody else feel that way?

I really, I need to pray.

I should be praying.

Adam.

Michelle is his heart.

She was going to say it.

Okay, thank you.

Anybody else?

Distracted easily.

All right.

Should I keep going?

Okay.

Mac.

You think so?

All right.

On, man.

Yeah.

Good to see you, bud.

Today we are starting a series which Emily, I finally just landed

on something.

The Prayerful Life, a series for beginners, experts and skeptics.

I read a book, we are reading a book some of us called Praying

like Monks, Living Like Fools.

And we really, when I asked a bunch of people what do you want

to talk about on Sundays, a few people brought up prayer with

some of the feelings and thoughts that you've mentioned.

And so we're going to spend the next several weeks trying to,

much like we did with the series a couple weeks ago, rediscover

the, the power and the mystery and the beauty of prayer.

I've been a serious follower of Jesus for quite a long time.

Even in the last year, I feel like I have realized how much I don't

know how to pray and how much I am learning to pray.

At the same time.

I probably feel more confused than ever in prayer and also more

at peace than ever in prayer.

How is that possible?

But it's what's happened.

So I want to tell you how the series is going to go and then we're

going to jump in.

Are you good?

You good?

First of all, we're going to talk about like today, especially

the why and the who of prayer.

Then we're going to get into more as the series goes on.

Like different forms of prayer and our frustrations perhaps with

different forms of prayer, our blocks with different forms of prayer

like petition or intercession.

Big words for when you're, you're, you're requesting something,

you're asking for something from God or, or you're trying to

intercede on somebody's behalf.

You're, you're asking for healing for someone and maybe you

do it persistently and you do it with, with passion and faith,

but you don't get it.

So we're going to Talk about that as the series goes on throughout.

I don't want to just keep this series in the, like, abstract or

the theoretical.

I ultimately want to help you practice it, because one thing that

I feel deeply in my bones, you learn to pray by praying.

Prayer is something that you discover by experience, which is

really awesome and really frustrating.

All right, so here's where we're going.

Anybody looking forward to gardening season, especially today?

This was our community garden two years ago, right out there.

And one thing, an image I want to bring to you today.

That is prayer is like a garden.

It's a place where we cultivate the extraordinary love

of God, love of self, and love of neighbor.

As Tyler Stanton will say at the end of his book, praying like

monks, living like fools, prayer is a way that we remain in

God's love.

So Jesus says, remain in my love.

In John 15.

Prayer is a way that we remain in God's love.

Not that I'm not saying that if we don't do it, God's like, you're

banished.

But it's a way that we discover and deepen our encounter

with God's love.

And also love of God, love of self, love of neighbor, love of love.

Prayer is the place where we remain in God's love.

It's also where we forge trust that God is near.

We're going to talk about these things today, but perhaps you're

like me.

If you look at my garden at home right now, it's got, like, messy

chicken wire from last season.

It's got, like, old tomato plants that are brown and, like,

bent over.

It's got bamboo sticks that are, like, broken in half, some of

them.

And now snow is.

Is covering it.

Anybody's prayer life feel like that?

Nobody want to admit it, like, kind of barren in a winter season.

But as I said, this series isn't just for those folks.

I believe this series will also be for people who feel like

they're veterans.

Their garden is.

Is fruitful.

Their prayer life is.

Is bountiful.

I think we'll learn something together about that.

I want to talk about first, though, like, what I want to imagine

with you, like, why when we don't pray, or if we're blocked with

prayer, like, what.

What.

What's in the.

What's in the way?

And I want to start with and then be ready.

I need your feedback in a minute.

On line two.

I want to offer up four things that I think have been ways of prayer

that we've been shaped in that have hurt us.

They've not been helpful to our understanding of prayer and our

practice of prayer.

So I'm going to share these with you, and then I want to see

if you agree and if there's anything you add.

Okay, so here we are.

Here's.

Here's my four.

First of all, Joanna mentioned one prayer as a transaction.

So, like, an example is like, we just go to God.

And Phil mentioned this.

When it's convenient, we go to God to get something in return.

We go to prayer because we want something from God.

And that's maybe all we do.

When we get it or we think we get it, our garden is fruitful.

When we don't get it, our garden is in a winter season.

Perhaps.

Sometimes I have realized, friends, even when I go to God to

pray for forgiveness, I've realized deep down in my motives,

what I'm actually wanting from God is relief from my guilt.

Does that make sense, that little subtle nuance?

I'm not actually trying to, like, pursue a restored relationship

with God or reconciliation or a transformed heart into God's love.

I just don't want to feel my guilt anymore.

And some of my guilt is from, like, stuff that I.

That I formed from my childhood, my understandings of God

from childhood.

That's one second thing that I think has hurt us.

Prayer is just like one thing.

What I mean by that is like, you've.

You've maybe been shaped like you've seen a lot of good prayers

and you thought like, oh, that's what good prayer looks like.

If I'm doing prayer, that's how I should be doing it.

And it.

And it looks like this, it sounds like this, it feels like this.

And along with that, there are only certain forms of prayer.

For example, maybe you got.

You didn't realize it, but maybe you got shaped in this idea

that complaining to God is not prayer.

Is complaining to God a prayer?

It can be.

Some of us have maybe been in traditions where it's like, complaining

to God is a big fat no, no.

Number three, prayer is magic or superstition.

So by this one, I mean, like, if you pray, it's almost like a spell.

Like hocus pocus, any hocus.

Am I offbeat here?

But like, Winifred Sanders, she's in her book.

She's got to do the prayer in the rhyming and the right, like,

sequence, and then the spell happens.

Well, maybe we have that idea about prayer that, like, if we're

not getting it, oh, it's because I need to.

I need to do it a certain way.

I need to like, be really.

I need to praise God to start.

Be thankful to start.

Really butter God up before I ask for it.

And then.

Then I might get it.

Number four, prayer is obligation or religious task with

which we prove ourselves worthy.

Those are four things that I think maybe have been in the water

with prayer around us and they've not helped.

A, do you agree?

B, is there anything you'd add to the list, forms of prayer or things

about prayer that you've kind of been conditioned in that.

Charles.

Superstition prayer.

I think sometimes for me, more formulaic.

Yeah.

Like, it almost.

If you have this.

If you had, like, a moment where you're really felt in touch

with God, it's almost like, yeah, yeah.

It becomes formulaic.

Maybe you're like, oh, the prayer was really working in this

season, so I want to make sure I repeat it over here in this season

so I reproduce the results.

So a superstition.

It's like an athlete who is.

Who keeps wearing the same.

We won't say underwear, but anyways, I just said underwear.

So he keeps wearing the same underwear because they want to game

here.

And he's like, I can't.

I got to keep wearing that to win.

What else, Shelby?

Prayer as the solution.

Okay.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, what else can I do?

Right.

Also, I think you always hear the thoughts of prayers and what

are you doing?

Right.

That specifically.

That specifically will come up later in the series.

This thoughts and prayers is going to take center stage later

in the series.

Yeah.

Like, prayer is the.

The.

The.

Like the cure all kind of thing.

Mandy.

Yeah.

Be the.

Yeah.

Be careful what you pray for.

Right?

Yeah.

It's like, hey, if you pray for patience, God's gonna give you

opportunities to learn patience, which, I mean, that's possible.

It's very possible.

But it's like, oh, shoot, I just prayed that God.

Can I take that back?

Cause I'm.

I'm afraid how you're gonna use what I just said against me.

Joanna.

For me, a lot of times I think I'm praying to my heavenly Father,

the one most high.

He's holy.

So how do I approach him?

So I've been praying to Jesus for.

Because in the white library, some verses where it's like, you

couldn't just go to God.

You had to do.

You had to go for Jesus, but you so to use his knee sometimes.

So a little bit of the.

Yeah.

If God is.

Is.

God is like, exalted, high mighty.

How do I go?

How do I go?

Do I pray to.

I've gotten this one a lot in my career, if you will.

Who do I pray to?

If God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, should I go to the Spirit?

Should I go to Jesus?

Should I go to the Father?

And if it didn't work with the Father, maybe I'll go to Jesus now.

You know, we, We, We.

We become polytheists.

I'm gonna go to this God now.

They're the.

They're all the same anyways.

It becomes the ritual over the relationship.

Yeah.

All right.

Oh, P.T.

go ahead.

Cursing is telling God what to do.

And I grew up in a faith tradition where it was just saying

if I stay in Jesus's name.

Right.

Because the Bible says you can ask for anything in Jesus's name

in the earth.

So if I decide in Jesus name.

Right, yeah, that's part of that superstition thing.

Oh, wait, I didn't say in Jesus's name.

So now my prayer is ineffective.

Right.

We're gonna also.

That whole concept of asking for things in Jesus's name, those

verses take center stage.

One week, I think it's in two weeks.

Kirsten.

Maybe I shouldn't pray.

Maybe God doesn't want to hear from me.

Yeah, there's definitely a culture of, like, sometimes when

folks have, like, exalted the worthiness of God.

I'm not.

I'm not saying this is what you're saying, Kirsten.

But, like, God is so exalted, so worthy.

And then if we came from a prayer tradition when, like, human,

or a tradition where human beings are, like, wrecked, depraved,

there's a big gap that maybe psychologically is hard for us to

get over.

A shame gap, perhaps.

Jay, for me, the definition of trust.

The definition of trust is prayer for you.

We'll hold onto that when we get to the end, Jay.

That's really important.

I'm gonna add a few more things that are blocks for prayer,

then you can interrupt me if you want.

Okay.

Here's something that Tyler Stanton says in his book.

Like, just.

He just starts doing stream of consciousness questions that we have,

perhaps that.

I think they sound legit to me.

Is prayer really necessary?

If God is all powerful, that means he accomplishes what he wants

when he wants, right?

So why does he need me to ask?

Anybody had that thought.

Why does God sometimes seem to answer prayers, but only after a

long period of asking?

If the answer was yes, why did he make me sweat it out?

And he adds these to it, like, these are some things that he says.

Like, other are other blocks for prayer.

So the Series today, to relieve the suspense, we're going

to talk about why we don't pray.

And then, like, why we might reconsider prayer.

Okay.

He talks about how we're afraid of being naive.

What he means by that is, like, there's an undercurrent, maybe

not even an undercurrent in our time, like, where we don't want

to look stupid.

Like, there's.

There's more.

There's.

Maybe there's.

There's a fear of, like, man, if I trust this God that, like, I

will.

People think I'm silly and foolish.

Because ultimately sometimes you feel silly and foolish.

You're saying, I believe in this thing.

And then the same results are happening in the world.

Things aren't changing.

Your prayers don't seem to be changing things.

And people are like, look, this is silly.

We don't want to look naive or foolish.

We don't pray.

Number two, for fear of silence.

Anybody got that one?

How do you do?

Do you do great with silence or not so great with silence?

Number three, we don't pray for fear of selfish motives.

In other words, he doesn't mean that.

Like, what he's saying is that maybe I'll go into prayer and I might

discover some things about myself in my heart that aren't.

I'm not so excited about.

Number four.

We pray for fear of doing it wrong.

That goes back to my thing about we're almost, like, proving

ourselves.

We gotta show that we're doing it right.

We've got the right form down.

These are some thoughts he has from the book.

I'm gonna skip those.

So.

All right, I'm gonna tell you a story now.

We're gonna.

We're gonna switch to why you might pray, the why of prayer.

We're gonna hang out with that for a little while today, this week,

I realized someone defriended me on Facebook.

Yeah.

Yeah, someone defriended me on Facebook.

That's the era in which we live now, right?

I don't.

Have you ever seen that commercial where there's some older

ladies in a room together?

And this gal's got literal pictures on her wall.

It's her wall on Facebook.

There used to.

That used to be called your wall on Facebook.

That's not a thing anymore.

But they're in the room together.

These ladies are.

And an older lady looks at another one when her friend says

something she doesn't like.

She goes, I unfriend you.

And, well, that literally happened to me.

I. I realized someone came across my timeline.

I clicked on Him.

And it.

And it.

I was like, oh, my.

This person unfriended me.

And at first I was like, well, that was expected, because this is

perhaps the toughest.

It's not a family member.

It was.

It was a previous work relationship.

And.

And it.

And it didn't go well.

And it continued to not go well even after we stopped working

together.

It is by far the toughest relationship I've had in my life.

And when I first.

When I first saw it, first of all, you might think, Ross, this

is really petty.

Well, this is the world we live in now, right?

You.

You get unfriended on online.

So when I was in the midst of this relationship and feeling the

pain and the anxiety and literally the sleepless nights from

it, I decided to take Jesus at his word.

And I started praying for my enemy.

And by the way, I'm not talking about like, oh, I don't really

have enemies.

No, I felt like this guy was my enemy full stop, and I started

praying for him.

But when I did it, if you're like, Ross, you're so righteous.

No.

When I prayed for him, what came with my prayer was my hatred.

Oh, my God, Ross, what is wrong with you?

But this is a quote that I want to bring to you today.

CS Lewis says, we must lay before him what is in us, not what

ought to be in us.

CS Lewis says, well, we must lay before him what is in us, not

what ought to be in us.

When I prayed for this person, prayed blessing over his life, you

know, what was in me?

Let me just, like, spell out a few.

Hatred, anger, resentment.

Honestly, desire that he would get what's coming to him.

Am I being too authentic right now?

Nah, it's okay.

No, he's not sitting here.

No, no.

Well, and he's not gonna see anything I'm saying because we're

not friends on Facebook anymore.

No.

But no, he could come to heaven or church anyways.

That's neither here nor there.

What started was hatred in my heart.

When I saw that on Facebook the other day, the first desire I

had in my heart was to pray for him.

And now this time, there was zero hatred in my heart.

No hatred, no resentment, no anger.

Only love.

And that's because I had listened to Jesus, practiced before.

I understood, and I discovered the prayer, the power of prayer in

the practice.

Are me and this guy gonna be best buds anytime soon?

No, I don't think so.

But I have genuine.

I'm not even faking it kind of deep love in my heart for him.

I really do so that is one reason, one simple reason why we

pray.

Did prayer work in that scenario at least?

In one sense, my heart's been changed and I know it right now.

I know it.

There's skepticism in the room.

I said, this is a conversa, a series for beginners, experts and

skeptics.

People are like, well, hold on, Ross, wait a minute.

But what if somebody, like, really hurts you, like, really badly

and to pray for them is actually doing further harm?

Well, I can't tell you every scenario what to pray.

I'm just bearing witness to like one situation where the practice

of prayer helped me to discover its power.

I could have read 10 books on why you pray for your enemies and

I still wouldn't have found it except for the practice of it.

So actually, we're going to end here today.

We must lay before him what is in us, not what ought to be in us.

The other one, the other quote that I love from this book is this

one right here.

Prayer is our humble answer to the inconceivable, conceivable surprise

of living ultimately, like why we pray.

Jay said it, I think, is this right here.

Like, the one thing that we're doing in prayer, friends, is we're

trying to discover a deeper relationship.

We're trying to like, discover a trust in God that transcends all

things.

Long before we, like, start doing methods of praying and like,

what to pray and how to pray.

Like, the center of prayer is relationship.

Perhaps what's blocking us in prayer is what we are struggling

with, like what the point of relationship or religion is to begin

with.

Right.

We say in our narrative of beliefs here at Heaven Earth Church

that the center of Christianity is a person, it's a

relationship.

And so like, the center of faith is not a doctrine.

It's.

It's ultimately a relationship with the person.

And so prayer is like where we go to forge that relationship and

that trust or respond to that relationship or that trust.

Have you ever had frustration?

You've never had any frustrations in your relationships?

Right?

Right.

They're all going swimmingly.

Yes.

With the people you love most especially.

Right.

They all just go fabulously.

There's never hiccups, never communication issues.

Yeah.

Married folks, it's all, it's all awesome all the time.

Yeah.

Sunshine and rainbows.

Well, I'm here to tell you your relationship with God is like

that and sometimes might even be like more frustrating because

it may feel like completely one sided, but nonetheless, like,

for me, ultimately, like, the why of prayer is I do feel it's like

a garden where I. I can read all the books about gardening and

watch all the YouTube videos and feel really insecure about my

gardening.

But the thing that's helped me fall in love with garden gardening

is having my hands in the soil and failing the first season and

the second.

But the more that I like, the more I saw fruit come onto the.

The plant, the more I was like, I want to keep doing this.

Though I still don't know.

As much as Jennifer Howard knows, her gardening setup is unbelievable.

And Charles.

Sorry, Charles.

You too, man.

He's just a laborer.

Okay, so, like, that's actually not planned in the sermon.

Pitch your wagons to a better gardener than you.

Okay.

And the same goes for prayer.

I don't mean better like, they're doing it successfully or

they're just a good prayer, like somebody who can, like, help

you discover prayer.

Be around people who there's a richness from their prayer life,

not that they're doing it all the right way or their competent

prayers, like, be around people like, I still stink as a gardener.

No.

I still can't grow watermelons.

I don't know why, man.

It just doesn't happen.

Yeah, true.

All right.

Ultimately, I want to show you this.

This is.

This is why we pray, actually, right here.

Anybody heard this?

This.

This verse?

Did you?

Who knew I was like, ross is going here today.

You knew it was coming from Philippians chapter four.

Don't be anxious about anything.

Rather bring it.

Bring up all your requests to God in your prayers and petitions,

along with giving thanks.

Then the peace of God that exceeds all understanding will keep

your hearts and minds safe in Christ Jesus.

It works just like that, doesn't it?

If you're having an anxiety attack, the.

The cure.

All right, Shelby, you know what?

I forgot?

My heart is racing.

My chest feels warm.

I can't sleep.

But thank God.

I prayed and I gave thanks.

And now, just like that, like magic, peace has filled my body when

you say it in Jesus's name.

Right?

That's how it works, right?

Joanna's fighting me right now.

She goes, it can.

Remember when I told you, be around a gardener?

That's a little ahead of you.

I'm a skeptic.

I'm a skeptic.

I need to be around a gardener who's an optimist.

I don't have the gift of faith.

I need to be around some people who do.

I do.

Because I'm a skeptic.

You know what?

I love that.

Tyler Stanton does.

He added the something from the Verse before verse six.

And I was like, wait a minute.

That's not part of verse six.

You can't just add that in.

That's in verse five.

You cheated.

I've never seen this last part of verse five added to this.

And you know what?

I was like, oh, wait a minute, Ross, you dummy.

At one point, the scriptures had no spaces even.

They were just Greek capital letters all run together.

No punctuation, no chapters, no verses.

It all just went together.

So he can do it.

It's this part he added.

The Lord is near from verse 5.

The Lord is near.

Don't be anxious about anything.

Now.

Is that a cure all, Shelby?

No, But.

But as I've gardened and been frustrated in my gardening, has praying

Philippians 4.

6 immediately fixed my anxiety?

No, but I have prayed this as a breath prayer probably a thousand

times.

A thousand times I've breathed in.

The Lord is keeping my heart and mind safe in Christ Jesus, and

so I will not be anxious about anything.

And over time, like, my heart, my psyche, my spirit are shaped by

that prayer, and it's helped me to discover the nearness of God.

Tyler Stanton says that, like, ultimately, that's what we're trying

to discover in prayer is, whoa, that's so small.

There's no way that we're going to be able to read that.

So let's not even go there.

One more story.

We.

How many people in the room do you know who Mother Teresa is?

How many people.

Raise your hands if you know who she is.

Okay.

Most of the room.

How many people who know her would say that you admire her to

some extent?

Do you admire her?

Raise your hand.

Yeah.

When she was asked, like, about her life, and when she would

get so much attention, she would simply say, like, my life was

all a byproduct of prayer.

It was all a byproduct of prayer.

All the care for orphans, all the visiting the darkest places in

the world.

So we love Mother Teresa.

Do we love the thing that she said made her Mother Teresa?

And can we at least have a curiosity about what we haven't discovered

yet in prayer?

What if, for all of our tough experiences, our frustrations, our

confusions about prayer, what if there's a land we haven't discovered

yet that is prayer?

What if there's a beauty yet that we haven't known about prayer,

and the only way we're going to discover it is by.

Ah.

I hate this sermon today, Ross.

It stinks.

You gave no answers.

You actually gave me more frustration.

Well, if you thought this series was just going to make you

feel all better about prayer.

Sorry.

I want to help.

You have, like, a heart to go to this land that hasn't been discovered

yet.

And here's the thing that I. I end with today.

I had all these wonderful quotes from the book.

And I'm not going to say any of them except for this one.

Pray as you can, not as you can't.

I have one like, I have homework for you.

And that's it this week.

Pray as you can, not as you can't.

So here's what that looks like, Ross.

I've really stopped praying because ultimately, if I actually

go deep down in my heart I don't even know if I believe in God

anymore.

Pray that.

Pray as you can.

God, here's what this sounds like.

I've been through so much.

I've had so much silence from you that I don't even know if I believe

in you anymore.

I'm almost to the point of quitting, but I'm reaching out in

prayer in hopes that you're still there.

Pray as you can, not as you can't.

God, I asked you for this thing with fullness of faith.

My heart was pure.

I had good motives.

I asked you with persistence, and you did nothing.

How long are you going to make me suffer like this?

Pray as you can, not as you can't.

I don't care if it's first thing in the morning, at lunch, at

dinner, at night.

Just try to show up in the garden.

At some point, I'm gonna have to go to my garden and realize I

gotta remove this nasty chicken wire.

That might be step one.

Maybe some of you are better gardeners than me and you already

removed all that stuff and you're ready to just jump right in

next season.

I guarantee it.

I don't mean to spotlight her, but I'll bet you Jennifer Howard's

garden is already ready to go for the next season.

Am I right, Jennife?

We're working on it.

See?

See, she tried to downplay it.

Pray as you can.

My garden is a mess.

Step one is to remove the first thing that's a mess in it.

Or, heck, at least just go stand and look at it and go.

Man, this garden is a wreck.

I might have to redesign the whole thing.

My garden is a silly mess of, like, cinder blocks.

This is my raised garden bed.

Cinder blocks that go around like this.

It's so ugly, it still bears fruit.

This ugly garden keeps giving me tomatoes and peppers and green

beans.

An ugly garden can still produce fabulous Fruit.

And it can be frustrating and confusing.

But there you will discover God.

So go to the garden this week.

Pray as you can, not as you can't.

I'm done.

Any thoughts?

PT But I am touched.

Almost every Sunday when Emily leads prayer at the Stadium Museum.

It is such a spiritual death of water.

Amen.

Emily's prayers are magnificent.

Be around a.

A seasoned gardener.

I get to be around a seasoned gardener a lot.

A lot.

So praise God for Emily.

Any other thoughts?

They can be like Ross.

Actually, I don't feel any better about prayer.

That's fine.

It wasn't going to happen in a week.

Okay.

Anybody?

Thoughts?

I think when you, you know, kind of going back to that, you know,

focusing on the ritual or how am I supposed to pray?

You know, something that I have learned more recently is like

he knows what's in my heart and in my mind already.

So why am I like worried about the way I'm presenting that to him?

Yeah, he has awareness of what is in my heart and my mind.

So why am I splitting hairs about how to do it?

Our Father.

No way.

Sorry, Jesus.

What I wanted to say, no way.

I'm a holy spirit.

Pray as you can.

Charles, your concluding thought there resonated with me too

for a couple of reasons.

What I was like, garden still produces quirky and sometimes I feel

as if there's been those moments where don't know what to

pray or just.

It's not, it's not ritualistic.

It's just honest.

And that seemed to be whether it's root for it.

Me perhaps.

Yeah.

The other thought with that is kind of like the, you know, the,

you know, the atmosphere like AA or something.

Keep coming back.

It's, it's not necessarily coming back to the meetings or in

this case prayer.

It's just keep coming back to that practice for yourself.

Yes.

And for your own.

In that case, the covenant for us.

Yes.

Yeah.

Charles basically talks about keep showing up and you'll talk about

that when I always hear this, people talk about the AA meetings

that they love and always what they describe are the people who

are in the meetings.

It's the same big, big book for every 12 step meeting.

They're all using the same material.

It's the people in it.

It's the relationships.

The same thing with prayer.

The one thing that we are cultivating in prayer is relationship.

So one thing.

Debbie.

Prayer can be intimidating.

You're just talking, you're having a conversation continual.

Like I was at the wind sale and at the break library yesterday

because I'M going to serve this guy that's like right on top

of me, trying to get around me and tell then I had physical stories

like kind of help me demonetize.

Yeah, that's a great example.

Pray as you can when you walk, when you drive.

Maybe you're not a person who can sit still.

Pray as you can pray when you're moving.

Dina, and I'm asking you for something,

I would say, well, thank you already.

Like he's already done.

He's already giving that.

Yeah.

So Dina, thanks.

When you're asking you, thank God already.

I love that.

Yeah.

Anybody else?

Well, keep coming on the journey, keep showing up for this

series.

I think you'll be glad that you did.

Let's, hey, let's pray.

Lord, thank you that the desire of your heart, the joy of

your heart, is to be with your people and so help us to go to the

garden of prayer and to see you in the soil there with us.

Help us to discover, not through our minds, but through our

spirits the wonders of remaining in your love.

Help us to find love for you, love for ourselves, love for our

neighbors as we pray in Jesus name.

Amen.

Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven

Earth Church.

Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am

Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland,

Indiana or online at YouTube Live.

That'[email protected] heavenerthchurch the audio podcast

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Instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.

You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org

we

want to thank you for spending time with us today.

My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church

and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact

your faith story may just be beginning.

If you want more information about our church or you're interested

in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise

we look forward to being with you.

You next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.