Sunday Conversation: The Mystery (and Frustration) of Asking God for…Anything in Prayer

Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. My name is Ross Stackhouse.

I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church. From the beginning,

our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into

church. Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their

stories, to honor their stories. Because in every human story

is God's story. In this podcast, you'll hear more about the

people who now call Heaven Earth Church home. Their stories,

in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering

faith. If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org

Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.

Hello, good people. Brad Miller here, the producer of the

Heaven Earth Church podcast. One of the main benefits of being

a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning

conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.

You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenorthchurch.

The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available

here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify

and on the website, which is heavenerthchurch.org Here is heaven

Earth Church pastor Ross Stackhouse with the Lenten message.

The mystery and frustration of asking God for anything in prayer.

The Lord says, be still and know that I am God. I'm exalted among

the nations. I'm exalted throughout the earth. Habakkuk the

prophet says, surely the knowledge of the Lord's glory will

cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. Lord, grant us assurance

of that beyond what we could achieve with our human mind. Speak

to us in this time. In Jesus name, Amen. So I, I told you that

not too long ago I had this great experience where I was at like

a renewal sort of retreat for a day, retreat for a day. And one

of the leaders had us go to St. John the Evangelist in Indianapolis.

I told you about it at the time. And she invited us to pray

till we were released. And what she meant by that was just try

to be still and present and attentive to God until you sense

that you're finished. And so we could walk around and do Stations

of the Cross, but there was this one station that I loved that

basically, I know you can't read that, but there were, there

was the, these prayers that they received from, they're part

of this greater effort where they, they collected prayer intercessions

from lots of people all over the world. And they, they collected

some in this basket and you could Just pick one out. So I got

this one. I pray for my career and for my mom's papers so she can

go home to her mom in Mexico. And so I prayed over that. Stuck

in between, as we'll talk about, as Tyler Staten says, like,

in between the mystery and wonder of prayer. I have no idea

if through my praying, if that person's career had any significant

improvement. I'm not sure. I don't know if my prayer helped this

person's mom get her papers and see her mom in Mexico. But there

is something so powerful about doing it. I felt the mystery of it.

Like, I don't know what this is doing, to be honest with you,

but I felt because I was fully present, my spirit was sort of workable.

I just felt present to God and my. My love for God increased. I

felt like it was a privilege to care for God's people. But I also

felt more connected to humankind, to. To my neighbors, to

this stranger whom I've never met. And that's why we've been in

this. This series called the Prayerful Life of Conversations for.

For beginners, experts and skeptics. Maybe it's just me, but

I need some help with prayer. I want to carry forward two images,

and then I. And then I want to talk to you about kind of. We're

going to talk about something specific today. We've been talking

about prayer more as a. A garden. It's not just a religious

task we do, but it's. It's where we go. We get our hands in

the soil with God and we cultivate love of God, love of self,

love of neighbor, even as we feel like we're stumbling through

it. I said an ugly garden can produce fruit. Secondly, last week

we talked about the city of go. Psalm 46 has this image of the

city of God that has this river flowing through it, that it's

a river of gladness. There's a song lyric that says, river of gladness,

fill my soul, Jesus, you're my greatest thought. God, I know when

we pray, it's like we're taking residence in God's city for

a while. Even if we don't know what we're doing, we're taking residence

in God's city and such that we realize it's our true home and we

never leave it. Part of our destiny is to bring God's city here.

I want. Let's be honest, there's some scriptures about prayer

that are. They're. They're tough. Like, it's like, really is

that. Is that I don't know if that's true. Like this one, Jesus

says, so I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, whatever you

ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it

will be yours. John 14. This is Jesus's farewell discourse. I

will do whatever you ask in my name so that the Father may be glorified

in the Son. If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.

I'm not finished. There's a thing that Jesus says several times

on that day, same farewell discourse. On that day, you will

ask nothing of me. Very truly, I tell you, if you ask anything of

the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now, you have

not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive so

that your joy may be complete. How you doing with these verses?

Go on. How are you doing, Cara? One more. Okay. I'll do whatever

you ask my name so the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Like, for me, it's like, even if you ask for a prayer, there's

a reason why you just don't know it.

You feel like if you've asked for something and you perceive that

it's not been answered, there's a reason you just don't know

it. All right, I think it's the.

You've asked for something and you have a vision of the way you

think it should be played out or how it's going to happen and what

you know. And we all know that it doesn't always happen that way

or the way people would wish for it to. To occur. So it's hard

to struggle with that. But it's, you know, you got to remind

yourself that it's, you know, he's going to do it in according

to his will, not yours. She said it better than me.

Okay, so we've got another vote for, like, sometimes what gets

in the way, perhaps, is our. Our preconceived notions, our expectations.

We.

Okay. What else? How you doing with this, Debbie? Yeah, God isn't

Robin Williams. Like, and you got three wishes, right? And you

can't trick God. And like, oh, that. Oh, that was a wish and you

granted it. But, you know, like, sometimes Debbie's like, I

agree with what has been said, but also sometimes, especially when

people are sick and dying and maybe they're young, that's just

an unanswered prayer for Debbie. What else? So sort of another

vote for. Maybe our perception is that it went unanswered, or maybe

the answer was no. Okay. All right, Sarah,

Because then when you're looking back and I'm like, oh, God,

that isn't answering that. Just stop yourself and figuring out

what you truly are.

Yeah.

It might be, like, when some. I don't know if you're saying this,

but maybe when it's unanswered, maybe it's an invitation

to look at, like, our intentions and our motives and our

hearts and, like, what. Why were we asking what we were asking

for? Ellie, These right here. So John chapter about 13 to 17 is

what's called the farewell discourse. So there's no last supper

in John. There is in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but there is this

sort of last speech that Jesus gives to his disciples who's getting

ready to leave. And he has this whole. There's the foot washing.

Right. So John chapter 13, he does that. He's serving them, and

John 13 · chapter mention

then he starts telling them about the role of the Holy Spirit.

John 14, John 16. And so he's preparing them that for his departure.

And so he's like, hey, once I leave, you're gonna learn how to,

like, abide with me when I'm not here physically. Brad,

over 50 years ago, Janice Jordan. We're safe business. And

I think these types of verses justify prosperity gospel imagery

or prospects. You know, Lord, if you pray such a thing, you know,

I'm going to be wealthy, rich and beautiful and all that good stuff.

And yet I really think you got to balance that out with many, many

verses about serving for and humility and so on.

Yeah.

This justifies kind of a skewed understanding.

Sure. The verses like this have justified what's called prosperity

gospel that, you know, like, I remember when Jesse Duplantis, if

you don't know who he is, don't worry about it. Not worth your

time. He's. He was. He was on a video, said saying, like, I believe

God. I'm believing you for a Falcon F7 or something. It was a

jet. And he was the pastor of a congregation, and he was asking

his congregation to raise money so he could have a jet.

So

that's a preface to, like. Yeah. So anyways, what I want to

say is, like, I'm believing. I want a G7. Guys. Like, yeah, yeah.

No, like, this can. This. This stuff can justify, like, you can

warp the Bible to whatever you want it to be for you. But you. Again,

like, we talk about, like, are you looking at the whole library

of scriptures and what some of the big themes are? I mean. Yes.

So I mean, maybe a different audience. I mean, obviously.

Yeah, that's a Great point. He's talking to people. He spent

like three years training, so he's. He's sort of worked on their

hearts. They're probably not going to ask for a jet. Probably

not. Because they've watched him. Shelby? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So

on the surface level, it's like if these were true, then we

wouldn't have all these bad outcomes that we have. But there

is an element, a huge element of faith and trust that enters the

equation here. Let's segue on that. So I'm going to read a little

bit from this book. Praying Like Monks, Living Like Fools. Here's

what we've got for the rest of our time. Today we're going to make

it a little excerpt from Praying Like Monks, Living Like Fools.

Then we're going to spend time in Luke 11 with the Lord's Prayer

and a weird parable and then going to. We're going to end with

like, so what? All right, you think we can make it, Christie?

We can do it.

Let's go. Are you awake? Do we need to do jumping jacks? Anyone?

We good? All right. Praying like monks, Living like Fools. He

says prayer is a compelling wonder. This is in a section called

Paralyzed between Wonder and Mystery. Paralyzed between one. Prayer

is a compelling wonder. God acting on earth in response to conversation

with a human being. How can it be? How can there be a God this powerful

and yet this personal? It's better than we dare to imagine. Most

of the time, Walter Wink confidently explains, history belongs

to the intercessors who believe the future into being. And

prayer is also a confounding mystery. Some readers will be inspired

and motivated by those stories of answered prayer, but at least

as many will be confused or even angered by the same stories.

Quote, he says, like, that's great. Your brother in law was healed.

But why some and not others? What about all the similar prayers

that went unanswered? If we insist on celebrating divine action,

can someone please explain divine silence? What took God so

long? Why wait decades to answer prayer and then answer it?

Is there some kind of divine equation with just the right combination

of time spent praying, plus a number of people praying, plus method

of praying that finally gets God's attention? Or is God just unmotivated

most of the time and she finally caught God at the right moment?

And in what other context does withholding that kind of power for

years make sense? Doesn't that story speak more of the cruelty of

a God with the power to act, who carries out the action slowly,

apathetically and randomly, more than it does to the kindness

of a God who acts in response to prayer. The question we're circling

around is this. Do my prayers matter in any visible, tangible sense?

Is God carrying on the way he would always carry on? Regardless

of whether or not I pray? Do my requests exclusively reform my

heart in some divine equation? Or do they carry the power to change

real people, conditions and circumstances in the world I inhabit?

Do my prayers actually matter? Prayer is between wonder and mystery.

Here's what I want to say to you today. I'm asking, like, why

ask anything in prayer? Like Jesus says, ask for anything. So

whether we're asking for confession, like we're asking for

forgiveness, we're asking for, like, someone to be healed, we're

asking for God to provide something like, why do we do it in

the first place? Why do we do it at all? Here's part of my response

that I want to hang out with today. God wants us to ask in prayer

because it draws us into intimacy with God. It's like when

my son was going to bed one night, I told you this story, and

he said to me, daddy, why doesn't God answer our prayers? And

that gave me a chance for closer, to draw closer with my son.

There's a moment of intimacy that his question, that's a prayer

like the Psalms, like God, what? Where are you? How long's it

going to take? God wants us to ask in prayer first because it draws

us into intimacy with God. It transforms us into whole and loving

people in God, and it enriches our love for God's people and God's

world. Oh, and I believe this with all my heart. It actually tangibly

changes things. How you ask, I don't have a clue. I have no idea.

But it exists between wonder and mystery. I guarantee you, everybody

in this room has had at least. Maybe you're like, nope, not me.

Ross, you've probably had some experience in your life where you

felt like your faithful involvement in the situation did

something. You can't explain it, you're not sure how, but there

was an outcome that you feel like was affected. Some of you are

like, there are times. Jen gave us a powerful example in Discovery

1, and she beared witness to it. Like, she told about her daughter's

healing. Can they go ask you about it? Jen? Absolutely. And she's

got plenty of stories of unanswered prayers, too. Prayer exists

between wonder and mystery. So I want to talk to you about that

today. Okay, we're to Luke 11. We're on a part two. We're moving

fast. We're doing okay for spring forward. Yeah. Okay, let's

do it. Here's what I love about Luke's version of the Lord's

Prayer. Did you know the. The Lord's Prayer? There are two versions

of it. There's Matthew and there's Luke. We're looking at Luke

today. Luke chapter 11. In this one, Jesus was praying in a

Luke 11 · chapter mention

certain place. Last week we talked about Henry Noun's quote.

Like, without solitude, a spiritual life is virtually impossible

without times of just like you and God. And like, that's it. No

noise. It's just you and God. Jesus did it all the time. He was

praying in a certain place. And after he'd finished, one of his

disciples said to him, lord, teach us to pray as John taught his

disciples. And part of me is like, are the disciples, like, envious?

They want what other people got. They want to be like, good prayers

because they want to get a trophy, or are they witnessing how

amazing Jesus prayer life is. Like, man, this guy, it looks like

prayer is actually doing something for him. I want that. Help

me. Maybe it's both. I love this, though. They see something

so dynamic in Jesus way of prayer. They're like, show us. And

then he's like, you betcha. So he said to them, when you pray, say,

father, may your name be revered as holy. So typically we

say, our Father who art in heaven. I told you, when I was little,

I didn't understand, like, why would you want God to be hollow?

I don't get that. And then I became an adult, and I was like,

oh, there's an A. I don't know what that word means. And I'm still

learning what it means to hallow God's name. I'm still learning

that. I prayed that again this morning. I'm still learning. But

it starts with, I know you all have heard this. Ross, I've heard

20 sermons on the Lord's Prayer. You're not doing it again,

are you? Yes. Some of you understandably, even struggle with

applying that word Father to God. I understand that there are

plenty of people in Jesus's time who had the same problem. And

yet Jesus is saying, this is a different one. He had an intimacy

with God that he expressed in his prayer life. He would use the

term abba, which is an Aramaic term. It's a term of, like, closeness,

friendship, intimacy. That's where prayer starts. The center of

prayer, the center of all spiritual practices is relationship.

And relationships are beautiful and frustrating. Amen.

You got any relationships like that are, like, deep Close, intimate,

that don't have frustration in them. Anybody have no frustration

in an intimate relationship. If you do, come coach me up. Angela

just did this from behind, from the back over there. Our relationship

with God will be no different. And yet the center of everything

is relationship. Everything that we're doing is not a religious

task. It's to strengthen a relationship with the one who made

all things. So Jesus is like, hey, I'm coming to spend time with

you. Lord, I wish your name would be revered as holy Is Jesus,

like, God, I want you to be famous like LeBron James. Jesus is

like, I know how good you are. I know how just you are. I know how

compassionate you are. And if people only knew it, too. If they

knew your name, which from Exodus is, I am who I am, or I will

be there. Howsoever, I will be there. If they knew how true that

is, if they knew how perfectly your character reflects your name,

they would rejoice. Let it be. May your kingdom come. That's the.

That's why. Oh, that we moved the banner. You know who moved the

banner? I did. And it's not there anymore. It's back there. The

name of our church is. Every time I say it, people are like, heaven

and Earth. Heaven. Oh, Heaven on Earth. It was a bad name choice,

right? It's a weird name. One time I was speaking to a bartender,

she was like, it sounds like a cult. And so we put on the sign once.

We're not a cult. At least we think, right? Because Jesus whole

life in all of prayer is a joining together of realities. It's

a collision of our reality with God's reality. And we're asking

for it. When I pray, I've turned this phrase in to this. Lord,

the same power that runs the kingdom of the heavens is coming

here. Praise God. The same power that runs the kingdom of the

heavens is coming here. Let it be like I'm asking for that in my

life, in the smallest matters of my life. May your reality crash

into mine. Shape my reality with yours. Shape this world with

your reality, and teach me how to be a part of it. We're almost

through the Lord's prayer, and here he does it. It's like this.

He's got these big cosmic prayers. Lord, may your kingdom,

your reality. Or maybe it's not up there. Maybe it's over there,

your reality. Oh, like here. But then he gets into the most ordinary,

mundane stuff. Because you know what? Jesus was watching day

in and day out in his little region of Galilee. People were grinding

to get Bread. Literally. Hopefully the harvest went well enough

so they had some grain they could put on a stone and then have

this donkey work this millstone. So this stone would walk

around and crush it and mill it and they'd have to grind it to

make bread. Every day is a grind. 90% of people can't read or

write. You had to have five. You had to have five births to have

one child reach maturity. Bart Ehrman is the statistician of the

history. Not on that. God help us in the most ordinary stuff we

need. Jesus is saying God cares about the ordinary stuff big

time. God isn't just some cosmic galaxy producing God. You

know how, you know, Jesus became. Came here and became a poor

dude grinding for bread just like everybody else. He fasted for

40 days and 40 nights. He suffered and died on a cross. He

is with us. Amen. And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive

everyone indebted to us. This is a joining together of realities.

Prayer is not just an individual reality. It's so that

you get joined up with your brother and your sister. It's a reconciling

of you to God and a reconciling to you to your enemy.

Jesus, like, hey, anyone can pray for people they like. Can you

pray for your enemies? Because I'm telling you to do it. And do

not bring us to the time of trial. Jesus. He's not pulling any

punches. Evil's a part of this world. I don't know the answer to

that one either. Don't know how that works. The devil's all over

in the Bible. I have no idea how that works. Lots of books on

it. I've read several of them. It helps them. I know there's evil.

Like all of this stuff is. It goes back to, like, the center of

prayer is that God wants us to ask because it draws us into intimacy

with God. The very act of asking draws us into relationship.

It transforms us into whole and loving people in God. Start praying

for your enemy. Watch what it'll do. Watch what it'll do. And

it enriches our love for God's people in God's world. And it tangibly

changes things. All right. We made it to the parable. Are you doing

okay? How's your. Are you sleepy? I just saw a yawn. Are we

all right? We're almost there now. It's complicated. Jesus tells

us. What is he doing? Man? He's always telling these par. He

speaks in riddles. Why? Why would you do that? All right. I'm

gonna give you the answer. Strip Sometimes I'll answer it and

sometimes I won't.

What?

How? The reason Jesus teaches us parables is the same thing that

we can learn about why prayer, how prayer works. How many of you

do well, when someone comes up and gives you unsolicited advice,

you do okay with that? They say, they say in recovery and, you

know, anybody know what I'm going to say? Unsolicited advice

is always received as criticism. Jesus is not. He is not

like a person just coming and just throwing advice at you. He's

not like the teacher you've known either. Emily and I talked

about this. You go to school, right? And it's like you've got a

test coming down the line. And the teachers role, they're wonderful

teachers, by the way, who don't teach all like this. But it's

like, hey, I got to prepare Julie for the test. So I just got

to give you the facts you need to get the multiple choice questions

right. Or at the very least, I got to give you the formulas and

teach you. I gotta teach you how to use the formulas, the equations

to get the problem sorted out, right? At the very most, they might

help you with some critical thinking because you got to do that

on a test too. We're getting a little closer to Jesus there. But

at the end of the day, when Jesus tells you a riddle, what do

you have to do to gather a pearl out of a parable or gather

something valuable out of a parable? What do you got to do? You

gotta show up, you gotta stick with it, you gotta ask questions,

you gotta draw nearer. If you just go to the riddle and scoop the

surface, you'll miss it. In fact, there's a risk which I don't

get why Jesus would do this. There's a risk you'll take away the

exact wrong thing. The same is true with prayer. It's all about

drawing us into intimacy. If you read something weird in the Bible,

draw closer. God, this is weird. Help me understand. Jesus

teaches in a way such that when we gather the wisdom, we admire

the wisdom and we admire the one who gave the wisdom. That's why

he teaches the way he does. So watch this. At first you're gonna

be like, man, this, he says. And he said to them, suppose this

is right after the Lord's Prayer. And suppose one of you has

a friend and you go to him at midnight and say to him, friend,

lend me three loaves of bread. So this is me. I go to Ashley's house,

I knock on the door at midnight, Ashley, I know you're sleeping.

I know the boys are sleeping. Get up. I need some bread. The millstone

is broken. The donkey, he's worthless. Here's what's worse. I

hosted some other people at my house and I didn't invite you. A

friend of mine has arrived and I have nothing to set before him.

And he answers from within, do not bother me. The door has already

been locked and my children are with me in bed. Ashley says,

ross, go away and go to sleep. I cannot get up and give you anything.

Ashley wouldn't do that. Ashley would give me bread. She's

awesome like that. So either. So this guy who's inside the house,

either he like, it's been a long week. Do you know how hard this

guy worked to put the kids to bed? Or actually, maybe the wife

did. Either way, if the kids, as I told Emily, the kids or the

wife wake up, who's gonna get unalived? In this case, it's not

the guy knocking. It's gonna be the husband who, you know, this

is not a good situation. Listen to what Jesus says. I tell

you, even though he will not get up and give him anything out

of friendship, at least because of his persistence, he will

get up and give him whatever he needs. There's a riddle. So God

is telling us to be persistent in prayer? Yes. Nope, nope. Really?

God is the kind of person that will not grant you things out of

friendship. But if you keep bothering, God will give you stuff.

It could be there's value to persistence in our relationship with

God. Hey, full stop. There's value to steadiness, persistence,

grit in every relationship, some relation. All relationships.

You need some grit, right? Marriage. This is why, like, we have

to draw closer. Don't just skim the surface. Don't skim the

surface in your prayer life. Hey, if all you got some days is,

like, praying on your way to work, that's fine. But do you also

have times when it is prayer time? You carved out the time and

the space for it. Sometimes we got to do fast food, right? Hopefully

that's not all you're eating, right? Don't skim the surface. Watch

what Jesus says. So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to

you. Search, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be

open for you.

What?

Huh? I thought you just said the guy. Wait a minute. This guy

said, don't bother me. Guy comes knocking, he says, don't come

bother me. Then Jesus says, so I say to you, knock, and the door

will be open for you. What? Jesus says? So I say to you, I don't

know if this is the right meaning of the parable. By the way,

that's what I'm thinking today. Jesus says, if you think God

is like that friend who gets frustrated when you knock at midnight,

you've missed out on who God is. Who created the problem in this

parable? Who created the problem? The guy that ran out of

bread. He hosted people and didn't go to the grocery store. And

then he said, hey, I didn't invite you, but can you help me out?

God says, christy, even if you create the problem and the timing

is bad, you come knocking at my door anytime and I'll open it

for you. If you create the problem, you messed it up. You got

nowhere to go. You come knock at my door and I'll open it for you.

Ask. And like, I'm going to open the door, I'm going to be there

for you. And then Jesus says something mean. For everyone who

at not this. This is nice. We like this. For everyone who asks,

receives, and everyone who searches, finds. And for everyone

who knocks, the door will be opened. Jesus is not God, is not

this friend who's like, you've been.

You've been.

You knocked and you bothered me. My kids are already asleep. Not

like that. Here's what he says. Is there anyone among you who,

if your child asked for a fish, would give a snake instead

of a fish, or if the child asked for an egg, would you give

a scorpion? Not sure why he chose those images. Ouch. If you,

then who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,

how much more will Heavenly Father give you? The Holy Spirit

to those who ask him. Sometimes Jesus speaks harshly, so

it has a way of breaking through your shell. We made it through

Luke 11. All right. You get three minutes for your thoughts about

it. You can disagree, agree, say what you're thinking, and then

I just have a few practical points. We're going to end at 10:45.

Hard stop. What do you think? Do we need to do jumping jacks? Jim,

in this day and age, I

think we expect everything immediately.

In this day and age, we expect everything immediately. We don't

know how to wait. Very true.

Not, you have to do some work to get there. You have to be the

one to ask.

You have to search, which is sometimes pretty hard to do.

It says, ask, search. Not so what Michael says. And by the way,

sir, where's that wonderful pajama suit that was in the picture

yesterday?

That was from, like, five years ago.

Ask, search, and knock. Like, there is a level which. Okay, hold

that thought for the practical points. There is some work that we

do. It's not like we're. Like, we see a person on the street or

we see a person who needs bread and we go, God, we see that

person go, hey, I'm going to pray for you. And right. There's

a grocery store. Hey, I'm gonna pray for you. There's some

work we do. Right. Okay. What else, Joanne?

I think too just, I mean, I think about, you know, I have great

relationships with my father, and he was my sole parent. And I,

I kind of compare it that way, that sometimes the answer is no.

He knows what I want. He wanted to give me the absolute world.

He hated him for saying no to me, but, like, there was just some

moments when he knew it was best to say no to me. And I think

that my faith in what I've been shown over the years, when the

answer was no, and I asked God as me as the answer no, like, God,

I know that you know the desires of my heart, and so thank

you for being my benevolent heavenly father. And I know that

if you're not giving me this, it. It could be something else or

some. I don't know, just having that faith, knowing the answer

just simply could be no.

The. The answer could be no. Like, Joanna likened it to our dad,

who's not God, but who maybe had a better wisdom about what we

actually needed. So maybe sometimes the answer was no for our

good. By the way, in two weeks, the whole sermon is about

when the prayer isn't answered. So that wasn't today. If

you're like, Ross, you didn't address what happens, like what Debbie

said when it really seems like it's the best, good outcome, it's

the right thing by all accounts. And it still doesn't happen.

Somebody else praying for the exact opposite.

Right, right. Sometimes when you're praying for one thing, another

person's praying for the exact opposite. Right. Joey?

It's more maybe reframing of interpretations of prayer. Like,

it's not a yes, no thing. And, and bear with me, it's like it's

a yes thing.

And so what I mean by that

is reframing prayer is like what I'm going to get out of this

is

a close, closer relationship with God. Yes, yes. It's not like

asking for things or, I mean, what you. What you can expect out

of prayer is that. That closer relationship with God and not

all these other things that.

Right. We just. Joey says it's not an E. It's not a yes or no thing.

Again, sometimes we're looking at God like God is a human or a.

A teacher we've known or whatever. It's not a yes or no thing.

It's always a yes thing. Because we're. When we go to prayer

earnestly, we're going to grow in intimacy and relationship with

God. That's a big yes. I like that, Christie.

I think it's, you know, to kind of segue off of that. It's like

it's a, you know, a give and take relationship. All relationships

are give and take.

Right.

And, you know, like, it's not just like asking, asking, asking,

and trying to find what you're getting out of it. It's, you know,

to this point, cultivating that relationship. And, you know,

what can you offer? What can you do to help in this? You know,

things like that, stuff like that internal reflection of that

giving, take balance that we know, like our human relationships,

when that's off balance, what that feels like.

Right?

Yeah. There's give and take in every relationship. Jill, go ahead.

Jill's got the last point.

I think from what Jeremy Christy just said, I. I feel like

a lot of prayers, it. It is that conversation and relationship

and, you know, in our humanness, we probably. Well, we

definitely don't know what ultimately, what will God do with

that prayer? So if it's a prayer of intercession, if you're

healing, you know, underneath that, is it a prayer to end suffering?

And while we might think, you know, it's the answer to that, prayer

will look, you know, this way through our human eyes, that prayer

might be answered, but not in the way that we expected.

Right.

And so I think. I don't know, I guess that's how I think about

prayer. It's just more relational and lifting things up

and then letting go.

Prayer is relational and lifting things up, letting go and

kind of surrendering that, as we'll talk about in two weeks. I

love what Tyler Staten says in the book, that God is basically a

collector of two things, tears and prayers. And we're going to talk

about that. Oh, okay, Angie. Bonus. Okay, you guys did. It's your

fault. We're not finishing at 10:45, but I

feel like when you are having that relationship, when you're praying,

it helps you to deal with disappointment because you are forming

that relationship.

Right? You're that relationship. If. If all you're doing

is going in a transactional mindset, the disappointment hits

harder. Right. And Emily, for a. For a epilogue after the Epilogue

I

think it's important to acknowledge too, like, sometimes

we just don't know. And like, we don't have to defend God's response

or lack of response. We can just hold the wonder. And I think

it's also okay, like, to be angry with God sometimes.

Yes, yes.

And it's not even just like what we think it should it turn out.

It's like, if I'm doing this in faith, if I'm doing the things

I'm supposed to be doing, like who you are, like I'm trusting you

in yourself, like it's okay to hold the angry with God in that space

and to. To work that up with him.

Yeah.

And I think that.

So part of the process is accepting and embracing the uncertainty.

Like, we don't have to know, we don't have to defend it, like

God's response or lack thereof. But also it's okay to be

angry with God. We see it all over the Psalms. We're going to talk

about it in two weeks. All right. No more few things practical.

Like, so what? When I look at the Lord's Prayer, back to this.

Come on, phone Jeepers. When I look at the Lord's Prayer and just

like how Jesus prays, it makes this question less important to me.

Like, when I look at Jesus's intimacy with God and his relationship

and the way he frames up prayer, like, I asked for things

because I've experienced it. This is me how I've experienced,

how it draws me into intimacy with God such that I trust God for

two things. One, to do something good in some way about

what I'm asking for, and two, to transform my heart through the

asking. So that's one thing. Like, I think if we pay attention

to Jesus prayer life and we just go and pray, it might reframe

that question to begin with. That's number one. Number two, I

do think that we're going to have to, like, let ourselves fall

into trust of prayer again, especially those who are the skeptics

in the room. And your heart's been hardened to prayer, understandably.

I think you're going to have to let yourself wholeheartedly trust

to try and pray again. And sometimes you're going to have to

accept this. Sometimes our experience in prayer is going to

be tilted towards goodness and glory. You're going to feel like,

man, that was a glorious experience of prayer. And then sometimes

it's going to be tilted more towards frustration and anger or

boredom and awkwardness. I'm here to tell you, Jesus says, even

then it's all tilted towards glory, all of it. Two more points.

The way forward is discovery. I had somebody ask me this week,

like, I loved it so much. This is what showing up's about. We went

out together and they said, like, there's something happened

in their life. Somebody had passed away and they're like, why

am I even praying for these things? Like, what am I praying and

why do I even pray it? I love that question because I'd be asking

it too. Basically, my response is just. Just go pray what your heart's

desire is. Just go do it and keep your eyes and ears open. There's

no book I could give you. There's no nothing except, like,

we're going to learn through discovery. Go pray wholeheartedly.

Take the time to do it and keep your eyes and your ears open.

I don't know what you'll find, but you'll find something. If nothing

else, your heart changes dramatically through the praying.

And I also wager you'd find something in the situation that's

changed, too. Last one. We made it. It is 1048. That's your

fault today. There's no point to praying if we aren't willing to

become our prayers. No point if you're not willing to become your

prayers. For example, if you're praying for someone to have

bread, how much bread do you have to give? There'll be many times

where you are the answer to your prayer. Thoughts and prayers

ain't gonna cut it. Prayers in action. I'm for it. Let's rephrase

it. Let's not do thoughts and prayers anymore. Let's do prayers

in action. Makes me think of Richard Orr, who has a center for

contemplation and action. So, like, be willing to become your prayer

now. I'm going to guide you through the Lord's Prayer. I'm going

to say it slowly and let you fill in the gaps with the stuff of

your heart. Let's pray. Father, may your name be revered

as holy. May your kingdom come give us each day our daily bread

and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone indebted

to us and do not bring us to the time of trial. Amen.

Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven

Earth Church. Your next opportunity to do so live is this,

this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main

campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana, or online at

YouTube Live. That'[email protected] HeavenEarth Church.

The audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on

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Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify

and leaving a five star rating in your review. Instructions on how

to do just that and links are in the show notes. You can always

find out more by going to the church website, heavenearthchurch.org

we

want to thank you for spending time with us today. My name is Ross

Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may

think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith

story may just be beginning. If you want more information about

our church or you're interested in the next step, you

can go to heavenearthchurch.org Otherwise,

we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth

Church podcast.