When God Doesn’t Do What You Expect: Miracles, Faith & Trusting His Character

You talk about a faith journey.

Like, wow, we we we went through some pretty low lows during that time.

I'm I'm not gonna not gonna you know sugar like that, but it was it was really hard.

And I'm glad that um one that we had each other, but two that we were able um to turn to the Lord during that time and and really just spend a lot of intentional time in in prayer and really hold true to that motto of but God, trust God.

Is my faith in your ability and power to do what I want you to do, or is my faith in the character of God?

And that that was the lesson that that I believe was mine to learn during during is about the character of God.

Um, who is he and and do I trust whatever his outcome is going to be?

Yeah.

Hello everybody, welcome to the Crossroads Podcast.

My name is Jake Christie.

I got some cool friends here with me today.

We are talking about miracles and how God works in our lives in miraculous ways, how he has in the past.

Let's go around and introduce ourselves really quick because we've got some new faces on the pod today.

Yeah, we're excited about it.

Tristan, let's start with you, bro.

Tell us what you do here at Crossroads, just give us a little bit of a snapshot of who you are.

And then um, we always do an icebreaker question.

I had one that I sent to you guys, which is what's your favorite miracle Jesus performed?

But I want to get to that later.

I want to get to know the real you, Tristan.

I want to know the deepest, darkest secrets of your life, what happens in your head in the most raw form of Tristan.

I want to know what's your favorite color.

Yeah, so uh I'm Tristan.

I am a cloud engineer at JM Smucker by day, and then I work part-time here at Crossroads as um the central tech director.

So I'm uh have the privilege of overseeing our IT and production departments here.

Um super fun.

I get to work alongside Michael in the creative arts department, so that's always uh I joined in fun there too.

Um, I have a wife, her name is Whitney, and two kids, Malachi and Aurora.

And my favorite color is probably like a light blue.

Light blue like sky blue, baby blue, uh Robin's egg.

Like this.

That's like please sponsor us, Stanley.

Actually, that would be awesome.

That would be really cool to have crossroads Stanley Stanley Captain.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a really pretty blue, but I wouldn't call it light blue.

Like a medium blue?

Maybe medium blue.

Your shoes are that color too.

Yeah, light blue and medium.

All intentional, everything matches.

Every accessory matches, and your your shoelaces are like the complimentary orange.

Yeah, yes.

We're learning so much about him.

Yeah.

How long have you been on staff here at Crossroads Tristan?

Um eight or nine years.

Eight or nine years, yeah.

Yeah.

I think we were around the same time.

You were like right before me, maybe.

I remember, I think actually, I think your first weekend that you uh had been hired on here as staff, because you volunteered here for a long time too, was my first weekend volunteering in tech.

Do you remember this?

I remember that, yeah.

I was I had signed up to do the soundboard to volunteer to do audio, and you had just gotten hired, and there was no communication about that we didn't need volunteers for running the soundboard anymore.

So I showed up ready to ready to serve, and Ernesto, who was leading all that at the time, was like, oh yeah, we don't need it's so funny.

We did we yeah, yeah, we do need volunteers now, so yes, please sign up for productions.

Yeah, but I was like, Oh, so what do I do?

And he was like, You can just hang out with Tristan.

I was like, Okay, now think I don't think we'd ever met before.

First time, yeah.

So funny, so funny.

So we go back, we go back, Tristan.

Love it.

We uh when we did Saturday night services for a little bit.

I don't know if you remember this either.

You would stay the night with us sometimes.

Remember that we had a cat and a dog, we had a dog there for a minute, yeah, for very long time.

A hot minute.

That did not last all right.

Not last all right, no, no, but we referred to you as Uncle Tristy.

Yeah, do you remember that?

I do.

You are Tristy.

You are our cat's uncle.

So whenever we bring Saturday night bats, Saturday nights back again, which I don't think we ever will, but that's not a hint.

You and Whitney, you're the kids need to come stay with us again, but uh, where's the cat now?

The cat is dead.

Oh I think Uncle Tristy, you didn't even know that.

Just the last half our audience.

Oh, when he stopped coming, he died of a broken heart.

No, I don't get it.

He killed their cat?

I think it is terrible.

Playing it on the cool Michael, let's hear from you, man.

Uh, lots of people know you've been on the pod before, but hi everybody.

It's great to be back.

Uh, I'm Michael on the worship pastor.

I'm sorry, I am not the worship pastor here.

I am the creative arts pastor.

Just a new title and job shift.

Um, still getting used to that, but um I'm pretty much doing the same stuff as I was, just get to have more fun with more people.

So um my favorite color is probably Salevan Green.

Oh, it is a hunter green with hints of teal to it.

It's um and it looks really great with gold hardware.

I I Salevan green is absolutely my favorite color.

So is there a backstory there, Michael?

There's a ton of backstory.

Who are the Salevans?

I was actually hoping you would go to her first so she could introduce herself as a bird to Salevan and then but um there is now it has more mystery.

Yeah, but really, like we we had a conversation about Salevan green, which is a green that they put in their home that Jake really, really loves, and it just really is very close to my favorite shade.

So I'm just saying Salevan Green is my favorite color.

I'm gonna have to look up the actual paint color now and tell me what it is.

If you want to know the backstory, don't talk to any of us, find my wife, she will tell you the story.

Tony, one can just drop that color in the show notes for we'll get the color code.

I have to send it to you.

So you can paint every room in your house Salee and Green.

Is this the best thing?

It's pretty awesome.

Sure, we can sponsor us.

Yeah, that'd be cool.

Yes, yeah.

We have lots of walls that you painted.

Yeah, we did.

Be awesome.

Amanda Salevin.

I am Amanda Salevin.

Thank you.

Yeah, tell us about you.

Um, okay, so I have been going to crossroads almost the same amount of time, I believe, that you guys have.

Okay.

So about nine years.

Is that about right?

Yeah, somewhere in there.

Yeah.

Um, I grew up in the Mansfield area.

My dad was the pastor of what is now the Mac, but used to be First Alliance.

So I'm a PK.

And um went away to college, and there's a whole story there.

But when I came back, we were like, where do we go to church?

Because my dad had retired.

And so from the ministry, not from working.

And um, so Dave and I visited around in Crossroads.

It felt weird to come to Crossroads at first, to be honest.

Oh, yeah, because back when I was a kid at First Alliance, Crossroads stole a lot of our members.

No, we can talk about that.

We're gonna learn about some Mansfield drama.

That's what this podcast is gonna be.

We're not gonna talk about another.

And then she said, no.

So uh so anyway, but we visited and it just felt like this is where we were supposed to be, and got involved with worship arts, and so does Dave, my Dave, or my my Dave, my my husband does cameras here, and we have loved it ever since.

Now we have our best friends are here, you know.

We love crossroads.

I have um uh a little girl named Lavelle, and she's five, and a little boy named Campbell, and he's two, and they might be some miracles that we talk about today.

Yeah.

Uh, and my husband is David Solevin, and my favorite color is yellow.

And I have a reason.

The reason that my favorite color is yellow is when I was little.

I said, Mommy, what color would I be if I wore a color?

And she said, You would be yellow because you're bright like sunshine.

And I really latched on to that because you're a yellow belly.

No, uh Lily Livered.

I really identified with that, so I held on to it for dear life, and it's still my favorite.

It's the cutest thing I've ever heard.

Yeah.

I love that.

That was a fun one.

Yeah, oh good stuff.

Well, guys, thanks, thanks for joining today.

My favorite color is something similar to a soleban green.

It really is.

We've got good taste.

It it's the best color.

It's just it goes with lots of different things.

It's it's it's cozy and warm and inviting, but also fresh.

Yes.

It's somewhat traditional.

Yes, yes, it's the perfect, and I will take a little credit for it because I do remember taking the paint color to wherever I got it mixed.

Anyway, and I said, I like this color, but add a make it a little more gray.

Okay.

So, so it it we can sort of it.

It's selected green.

We can name it officially Salim and Green.

Uh, good stuff.

We gotta get that paint color.

Matters so much.

It does.

Cool.

Well, guys, thanks for joining today.

Uh, I'm excited to jump into this conversation.

Um, and part of the reason why I wanted to do this episode was uh because so many people are looking for hope.

They're we're in the midst of uh turmoil and pain in our lives.

A lot, there's lots of things that we just we want to see God show up in and provide or protect in particular ways.

And that kind of just got me.

We're in the middle of the seven series right now, too, where we're talking through a lot of Jesus's miracles and things like that.

And so I just wanted to talk about miracles and how we see God working in the world today, uh, but also how we've seen him working in the past.

And so you guys, all three, have some really cool stories, particularly when it comes to like things with your kids and things like that.

Uh, and I know we've heard your story uh a little bit, Michael, about you and Lyric and your guys' kids and all that kind of stuff.

So I just wanted to have a conversation around that today, yeah.

Um, for for a lot of different reasons, uh to again to give to give God glory uh for the things that he's done and just to be able to celebrate the way that he works in a way that that will last uh on the internet forever, you know, which is so cool.

Um, but then also to get to just reveal some hope to some people uh and just to be able to help some people that are watching today be able to understand that that God is working in their lives, and that uh whether it's in a big, giant way that's really easy to see, or maybe even through some subtle ways, um, to always be looking for how he's working and to let that influence your prayer life, influence your worship, all of that stuff.

So I kind of just want to jump in today really quick and just ask you guys, um, what what are the some of the most impactful miracles when you when you look through?

We always want to start with the Bible.

When we when we go back and you look at some of the miracles Jesus performed, maybe even some other miracles that that were performed by other people that weren't Jesus, whether they're apostles or maybe old testament prophets, what are the ones that stick out to your mind that maybe if you were there would have been super impactful for you?

Maybe and maybe even like have applied some things to your life today.

Like, okay, I know that God performed this miracle through this person.

If and because he provided in that way for these people or did this thing, I know he is this.

And so, Michael, you're our veteran here.

I'd love to start with you.

That's all right, man.

So uh I'm I'm glad that you kind of opened it up because the answer that I wanted to give was gonna kind of be like I yes on a technicality.

Okay.

Um, and so I'm glad you opens up to to to Old Testament because my favorite, absolute favorite, is the fourth man in the fire.

Shadrach Day Shepard.

That's a good wine.

Like the the the whole thing, right?

Like the the the three of them standing there saying, like, God will deliver us if you throw us in this fire, but even if he doesn't, like we will not bow.

So like just the faith of those guys is like man, inspiring like to any believer.

But then like God could have just did I say that right?

That felt wrong to say what what God could have done solely is just like they get thrown in the fire and they they not be harmed, right?

Like that could have been the end of it.

They just stand there, but like he appeared.

Like there were four men.

Like he he physically, whether it was a Christophany, like Jesus coming in physical form or however God did it, we know theologically we can have the the arguments or whatever, but like there was a fourth being in that fire, like God coming to them, being with them, standing with them in the fire, not just like them getting thrown in, but God being with them in the midst of it.

Um, man, I just I love that because it is so applicable to so many situations that we walk through.

We can always know that like God is with us in those hard times, in those difficult times.

He's not just delivering us from them, but he's joining us there, yeah, and walking through.

You know what I mean?

Oh yeah.

So, so yeah.

So that was what I mean by like, like, you know, Jesus Christophy, like my technicality favorite miracle, but it is it's one of my favorites.

Yeah, that's uh that that's such a good one.

Amanda, how about you?

Oh, I had one prepared and Michael is making me rethink it.

Uh, maybe it reminded me of another one that's my favorite.

Okay, can I say more than one?

Sure.

Yeah, go for it.

Okay.

I'm gonna say three.

Okay.

Three.

Yeah, I know, I know.

I'm a lot, I'm a rule breaker.

So the first one is kind of the compound one where, you know, he's on his way to go raise up Jesus' uh Gyrus' daughter.

And he's on his way there and she is dying.

And this woman with a bleeding issue stops him.

So it's two miracles, but it kind of happens around the same time, right?

And a couple of reasons I really like this that just really speaks to my heart is one, he sees the need of both somebody who is socially important, gyrus, and also a nearly invisible person, somebody that nobody cares about.

And I think that that is just it just really speaks to the character of who our God is.

He's not just looking at somebody who's important, he's also not just looking out for the obviously needy, he sees all of us.

Um and then the other thing I really like that sticks out about it if to me is um while he's on the way to a child who is dying, he stops and helps somebody else.

And uh what I really like about that, and then he gets there and it seems like you know, all hope is lost, and yet he still triumphs over death, right?

To me, the big lesson there is even when he's paying attention to somebody else's need, he hasn't forgotten mine.

Um, so that's the reason that that one, those two miracles really stick out to me as a as a unified story.

And then the second one that Michael reminded me of is um Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo, and they're in the in there, they're sent in there, it's sent in the fire, and the only thing that was burned off were their chains.

Yeah.

That part has really stuck out to me about that miracle specifically, is because I think um there's there's a lot of lessons there, but the one that really spoke has spoken to my heart when I've gone through hard times is that the Lord might be putting us through something very, very difficult.

But sometimes the thing that comes out of that is he's burning off our bondage.

Yeah.

Um, so those are the ones that I really like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, so so it it was it was three, but you know, you package the first two.

Well, thank you.

That that I love what you just said of like just because you see God taking care of someone else's problems right now doesn't mean that he's forget forgetting yours.

Like, man, it could be so easy to feel jealous of how God works in people's lives, yeah, and and want that for yourself.

Um we we used to teach a class here, uh thinking about bringing it back, called Shape.

Um, and in this class, did we do this together?

Yeah.

We did, yeah, sorry.

But um in that class, uh when we're talking about spiritual gifts in that class, um, there's like a trap that it talks about how we can fall into the trap of comparison where you know, um, like man, I wish I had what that person had, you know, I or even like the opposite end of man, like they don't have what I have.

So you know pride, yeah.

Yeah, a prideful comparison.

But um, man, that I feel like it's so easy to fall into that, like, man, I wish God would do for me what they're doing for that person, and to feel totally abandoned by them or be feel abandoned by him.

And so to just remember that just because he's working in that person's life now doesn't mean that he's not gonna work in yours later or isn't currently trying to work in your life, right?

You know, but it just looks different.

That's that's why it's a personal relationship.

That's why it's a personal relationship with God.

He's right, he's working with you as you, not you, and everything has to look exactly the same as everybody else.

Right.

Oh, so good, so good.

I love that.

Love where this is going already.

Tristan, how how about you, bro?

What miracles stick out to you?

So I was actually gonna say Michaels, but I love what I mean.

I actually heard that on a podcast um a couple of months ago about the uh chains burning in the bondage.

Um so I love what you said about that.

Um couple things come to come to mind for me.

Um, you know, Jesus He said the 5,000, um, but then also uh on maybe a little bit of a lighter note, uh when we were considering this for like an icebreaker, I was thinking uh Jesus walking on water.

Why I drown every time.

Like I cannot float.

So just the like the idea of like Jesus literally walking on water is a little bit mind-boggling to me.

Like I'm like a little bit in all of that, like how how can that uh just how I can't even I can't even float my back.

Were the bottoms of his feet wet?

Right.

That's my question.

So it's just like yeah, you don't appear terribly heavy, Trista, and I don't understand.

I don't mean that.

I just I sick though.

I I do.

Um he has no buoyancy.

Yeah, like solid.

I love the beach, I love the ocean.

Very dumb.

But like I'm not gonna go further than where I can touch because well, sharks.

I mean, come on.

Yeah, yeah, but more people die of vending machines falling on them every year than shark attacks.

I've read that somewhere.

I don't see this video shop game.

That's on Reddit.

Must be true.

I found if as long as you say something as though it were true, if you say it with confidence, nine times out of ten people just take it.

Right.

I just believe it.

And you also made up that statistic.

Okay.

Fact check, please.

Oh, yeah.

I I I love that miracle too, man.

Uh that that's one of them that that means a lot to me because it out of all the miracles that Jesus performs in his earthly ministry, I think that's the one that stands out to me that the most that reminds me that he's king of the universe.

Yeah.

That like the way that he interacts with the sea, whether it's walking on water or whether he just tells it to be still, you know, and it just obeys him right away.

It's like there's something about remembering God being like being Lord over creation and nature and stuff that makes me grow in my reverence of him, but also my love for him and appreciation because it's like you can control all of this.

You're you're you're you have power over things that I can't even fathom the size that they of how big space is, you know, and it's nothing in comparison to you.

You control it with your voice, you can walk on things that you're are not supposed to be walked on.

Physics like mean nothing, like are your laws, and so you can rewrite them whenever you want, you know, and so that that yeah, that that miracle it that that means a lot to me too.

Um, but I I think the one that sticks out to me, the one that like I I don't know, always speaks super deeply to me.

I think it was because maybe um there was a there was a uh a Sunday school teacher that I had when I was in middle school that did a fantastic job of telling the story, but it's the story of when Elijah calls down fire from heaven um to burn up the altar.

Um that is a good one.

I think I think Elijah's sarcasm means a lot to me too, but where he's like maybe going potty.

I don't know.

Like, I don't know.

Um but uh I love that.

I I love reading that story, and it also just reminds me of like no matter how alone you might feel, because man, he he was by himself, you know, and like the odds were totally stacked against Elijah in in every sense because he's like after he performs this miracle, he goes in the wilderness and he's like, God, I'm the only person here that loves you.

Like, can you just let me die?

Can I just be dumb?

With this mess because no one else here cares, you know.

Um, even after you you perform this miracle, it just turns into me being attacked and hunted.

Um, but there's something about that miracle where he just has so much faith in God to do what he knows the Lord has put on his heart that he's going to do, that it's it comes across as a test.

They they they they set it up as a test, but it's not because he did like he's not testing whether God exists or not.

He just knows he does and he knows he's gonna do what he's gonna do because he he knows God's voice and he's so in tune with it that no matter what the circumstances and no matter what people are saying about him, no matter who's trying to hurt him, like God is providing for him, he's protecting him, and even comes against his enemies to to to show Elijah how much he loves him and how good he is.

Oh my god, you know, like stand up in front of everyone and to be I man, right?

Yeah, and even to look at the the dedication of the prophets of Baal, where the the this just speaks woman to me too, like they are cutting themselves and doing weird dances and everything, showing this level of devotion to the thing that they believe in that seems crazy, and so I think for for a lot of us, we can hear things that people are like really passionate about that are wrong and fall prey to people's passion, fall prey to people's conviction about things that are not true, and think they have a good point, or you know, or maybe like they really are passionate about this.

Maybe I can empathize my way to seeing things from their position, um, and then totally forsake truth, totally forsake the Lord in it, but he does not do that, and if anything, he just again meets it with sarcasm.

Uh then God shows up in a pretty awesome way, but um, yeah, thank thanks guys for that.

I I I just I want to start with scripture as much as possible because uh um inevitably won't always want to point people towards going back to reading the Bible, and one of the biggest things we try to do here at Crossroads is help people grow in their biblical literacy so they have confidence going in and reading scripture uh in their in their daily time with God and um to help them see like okay, what is God trying to teach us about who he is in the midst of these stories that might just seem like cool stories, you know?

It might just seem like if you just if you just read Shadmach, Reit Meshach, and Abednego, I can say that right.

Um and see that they're and see that they weren't burned up and their clothes didn't even smell like smoke and all this stuff, and that there's a fourth person, you might not even just realize on its face what's actually happening.

It just might seem like a cool story, you know, or like the the profoundness of Jesus walking on the water outside of it just him being him breaking physics, um, breaking the the laws of of nature, um, but what that means for us in the security that brings us, it's it's huge.

So, like I want to encourage everyone that that is spending time in the word reading these things to look a little bit deeper to help us understand God's nature.

And so that kind of leads me to my next question.

Why does God perform miracles instead of just making things easy?

You know, it could be really easy for him just to you you kind of mentioned this, it could have it could just be, it could have just been in the story of Shadek Abindigo, the statue just never gets erected, you know, because he's king of the universe, he can just do whatever he wants, he can just make it impossible for that to happen.

But he shows up in this particular way, um with them in the fire.

Looking back at all these examples uh in scripture of of God performing miracles, um, and even the miracles that he performs in our lives, why why does he do it this way rather than just making it easy?

Tristan, any thoughts come to your head off the top of your mind?

Yeah, I think it's to reveal his like divine identity, right?

His authority is as the as Christ.

Um, you know, I think specifically just you know, he's creator and and um of all.

And I think that just going back to the Jesus walking on water, as you said, like King of the world, like I think it's just a reminder of for us, just of how in awe of him that we can be um for just every I mean we can't walk on water, you know.

We talked about it earlier, so just just like a little bit of a reminder for us to say like he he's all powerful and just that divinity.

Yeah, yeah.

Amanda, any thoughts?

Yeah, I was kind of thinking along the same lines, Tristan, of just um I think that miracles are meant to point us to who he is and to tell us more about him and to inspire awe, right?

Like we are smaller, we cannot explain or do these things, right?

So, so this is somebody who is worthy of worship.

Um, but it also um tells us more about his heart, you know.

He is moved with compassion for people who are hurting or are unable to do for themselves, you know?

And I think the event does matter, but ultimately what matters more than whatever the miraculous event is, it matters who did it and why.

Yeah, right.

And I think if we search deeper, like you were saying, if we search deeper and we say, why, what was the result of this miracle, um, then we're getting the point, the reason that God chose to perform a miracle.

Yeah, yeah.

Michael and any?

Yeah, I think sometimes God if if everything were easy, faith would not be necessary.

Right?

Like if if everything just always went good for Rakshack and Benny, then uh shout out to all my Vegetails fans.

I'm thinking they would not if they if if the idol had never been erected, the statue, and they just God showed them favor and they just lived a uh in the lap of luxury, like they it would be very easy to think that they didn't need God.

And I think not that God um puts us in situations like in a cruel way to remind us of our need, but I think we our flaws can start to depend on our own might.

And so we kind of put ourselves in in harm's way, right?

The only w if someone is is miraculously healed of cancer, um, the only reason cancer exists in this world is because of our sin.

You know what I mean?

And so so I I think yes, absolutely, God has to reveal himself and reveal his power and wants us to know who he is, but I also think it's because uh he he uh has to intervene supernaturally because we have gotten ourselves in these situations in which we would turn our backs on the Lord or depend on our own strength.

So we we kind of I don't know, I guess what I'm trying to say is is um we need to depend on him for everything.

And sometimes the way the best way for us to depend on him is to realize that we need it, like to to find out firsthand, like that's good, oh my gosh, I need him.

I cannot make this, I cannot make it without him.

Yeah, and I feel like all of that just it is God trying to get our attention.

You know, it's like, hey, I'm here, you know, and whether that's through letting us go through difficult times, you know, because of decisions we made, or maybe even decisions that other people have made, you know, he he will show up in the ways that he chooses to to try to get our attention.

And I think so often it's really easy for us to to be so focused on the hard rather than focused on, okay, God, what are you trying to teach me right now?

Yeah, you know, I can't, I've not had this happen a lot, okay.

So I'm not claiming to be some um hyper mature believer, okay.

Um, but the the few moments of the few seasons of life where it's just been really, really difficult, and I've had the wherewithal and the the closeness to God in those moments to recognize you're trying to do something right now.

I'm gonna focus on you and I'm gonna focus on what you're trying to teach me about me and about these people that I'm interacting with, or about the situation to give me your perspective.

Um, help me get through this.

It is so much easier to do that when you realize you can't do it on your own.

Right.

And I think especially you were saying today, Michael, it it is especially today, we are so self-sufficient in our culture.

Yes, we are so self-sufficient, and so there's not a lot of times it doesn't happen very often where we're like, I am at the bottom of the barrel here.

Right.

I need something bigger than me.

Yeah.

Well, and it's almost contrary to like the American dream.

Total, right?

Like the whole thing, like pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Like we are indoctrinated from a young age.

Like, that's what being an American is, is like do it on your own.

And like that's kind of contrary to the kingdom of God.

Yeah, like we can't do it on our own.

Yeah.

Um, anyways, I could talk about that.

That's a conversation for another dealing.

I won't get into that, but yes, I agree with that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, we we need him so badly to be in right standing with him, for one, and two, to make it through this world that has been corrupted by sin that he ultimately ultimately defeated.

Um, and I it's so cool to see him break the rules a little bit, you know, to to show up in these miraculous ways in ways that we never imagined.

Man, the amount of times like I thought I wanted a situation to work out this way, you know, like like, but then he makes it happen a different way, and I'm stomping my feet and shaking my fists at him being like, no, no, no, like this is the way it needs to be.

But then it ends up that his direction ultimately is perfect, you know, and is gonna glorify him and be what's best for me, or everything.

It it and then I just end up thanking him, like, God, thank you for not doing what I wanted.

Like, thank you for your the way that you should showed up in the situation um being the opposite of what I wanted to happen, because inevitably this is better for everyone, including myself.

Um, but when he does it and he breaks the rules a little bit, it's really cool.

So that leads me to my next question.

Does God perform miracles today still?

And that it's it's a very important question to ask because there are there are some people that think that he doesn't, that he does not show up in miraculous ways like he used to in scripture.

Um, but then there are other sex of Christians that believe it and see it still.

So I would love to hear what you guys think and maybe even some evidences for it if that if if you'd be willing to share uh to support your position.

Um Amanda, I'd love to start with you if that's okay.

So does God still perform miracles today?

So I think so.

Um I I believe that sometimes we miss them.

I believe that sometimes we are so we are we we're kind of obsessed with logic, I think, and we want to explain it away.

We want to, oh, that was a nice coincidence, or that, you know, um, and medically we've advanced so much that it's really easy to um give credit to something else.

So I think sometimes we might miss it.

Um, but I also truly believe that the Lord does perform miracles.

I mean, we've seen them in our church recently.

Yeah.

Um, but I will stick with my own story.

I um for years and years, we could not have children.

I was actually told before um I ever got married that I would probably never have kids.

Um, that there were just some things going on with my hormones and my body that like it would make it very, very unlikely.

And I also had some like blood clotting disorders that would make it unlikely for someone to be willing to treat me for infertility.

So it wasn't looking good.

And I even told David, it was very hard because I was worried he would be like, Well, that's I love you, but that's important to me, you know.

Um, uh, so I was worried that that would make us not get married.

But the Lord had other plans.

And um, so we got married and we were trying to have children for about seven years.

And um, okay, so this will sound it may sound to you as I am talking about this, like um this was something that happened because we have medical interventions.

But I'm going to say before I tell the whole story that that is not what happened.

Um, so we went through lots of different things, years and years and years, lots of research on my part.

If somebody told me stand on your head and eat peanut butter and you will get pregnant, I would do it.

Um I have a delicious way.

Can you do that?

I do not think that's how it worked.

Only only Jif peanut butter.

Only Jif.

Only Jif, Jif Louis, yeah.

That was Peter Pan.

That was his Reddit post.

No, only organic, no additives.

I turned my life upside down.

Um, I removed plastic.

Um, I, you know, did everything within my own power, is what I will say.

I did everything within my own power to make my body do what I wanted it to do.

Um, and then that did not work for years and years.

So then we went the medical route and we went through um infertility drugs for many months of that, and that did not work.

And then we went through IUI.

We had three three went through three cycles of IUI and those didn't work.

Um, and then we went through a full round of IVF.

I mean, are you counting the bills here?

There, there's a lot, and um that didn't work.

We got we we only got one egg out of that first IVF cycle and it didn't take.

And that felt a little bit like um the answer was no.

Um and I just the Lord spoke to us in so many neat ways.

Um, David randomly got a job at Starbucks that actually had insurance for part-timers that will help pay for IVF.

Wow.

Praise God.

I know he signed up because he was or he got a job there because it was good for school, a school schedule, but the Lord was providing.

Wow.

Yes.

Um, and so that allowed us to be able to afford to do all of that.

He also, um, as as we're going through all of these things, he he had people come to me who had had dreams.

Amanda, I had a dream that you were all outside with your family and you told them that you were going to have a baby.

I mean, I would just like I would write it down, I would pray over it, I would have these index cards about all the all the times the Lord healed women, he'll healed barren women.

Um, and so we had one more last ditch effort before our funding ran out.

And we went through IVF one more time, and we got three viable eggs out of it.

Okay.

And uh, we had already committed to the Lord that however many eggs we got, we were gonna try them all because we believe that uh, you know, it begins life begins at conception.

So that was our commitment to the Lord.

So he graciously only gave us three, not 25.

Some women get that many.

Uh and so um, so here's what I'm going to say is that there were many opportunities for the medical field to pull through.

There was medication, there was IUI, there were diet changes and lifestyle changes, there was a full round of IVF, and I tried to do everything to the letter of the law.

And my ability to bend the Lord's will to my own, or or the medical community's ability to bend the Lord's will to my own was unsuccessful.

Yeah, it was only when he said, This is the one, this is the child that I have planned for you.

That Miss Lavelle was born.

Yeah.

And then that second egg did not work out.

I ended up having um a miscarriage.

Um, and the third one, Mr.

Campbell, he's a hoss.

Even not very many people get this opportunity.

When the egg was thawed and they were like going to transfer it to me, they were like, Wow, this one is hardy.

Like, this one looks really good.

Yeah.

Really?

From his little petri dish, this kid.

He's round everywhere, you guys.

If anybody has seen, everything about him is round and it's the best.

You call him soup.

Yep, Campbell soup.

Let's thick and hardy.

Thick and hardy.

That's right.

Um, so so my children, nobody will talk me out of this.

They are miracles.

I believe that every child is a miracle.

The Lord has to line everything up just right.

The amount of things that have to happen with timing within a woman's body, every time a child is conceived, it is a miracle.

Um, but I really got to see God go the extra mile.

Um, He has chosen these two, and I'm excited to see who they're gonna be.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Well, God gets all the glory for that.

And every birthday we consider um an altar to the Lord.

So every birthday, you know, we try to throw the biggest party we can and to tell as many people as we can um that that the this is a miracle that the Lord deserves the glory for the life of this child.

I believe that.

Man, you know what I had noticed was uh you maybe you were gonna get to this, but I'm just gonna jump to it.

Um that it was when you when God shows that these are these are your children, but also you started writing down note cards, you said, of of stories of God healing barren women and the the prayer.

I remember being in small group with you guys and just like laying hands on you guys before every appointment, you know, it's like okay, this is this is turning into a spiritual battle, not a medical battle.

Yeah, you know, um, because we all believed like like God wants to grow your family, you know.

Like I remember sitting in in our small group thinking like and just praying over you, whether we were like doing it verbally or even just like in the middle of conversation, being like, Lord, please, yeah, like like like these, like David and Amanda are meant to be parents, like it's so obvious, you know.

And it was when it turned into uh a pursuit of him for you that that that happened, you know, like and that that is thank you for saying that.

I I want to be careful and say, not say that if you have the right combination of words and faith, you can make God give you your desired outcome.

Right, right, right, right.

Yeah.

But you're absolutely right.

This journey did not turn out to be me trying to feel for a long time it was for me.

For a long time it was like, okay, if I can just believe hard enough, you know, then I'll get what I want.

Yeah.

But through this, it was real what the Lord just had, and I was like, Lord, I learned it, but I didn't yet.

Uh um, is do I really trust you?

Is my faith in your ability and power to do what I want you to do, or is my faith in the character of God?

And that that was the lesson that that I believe was mine to learn.

Yeah.

During during is about the character of God.

Um, who is he?

And and do I trust whatever his outcome is going to be?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, so powerful.

Such a cool story.

Thank, thank you for sharing that.

I love your kids too.

Uh our kids get together and play.

It's it's they are pretty special.

Yeah.

They're hilarious.

I remember I remember the the the first, I mean, like praying again, praying over you in small groups like crazy.

And then the first one Laval came to.

And it just felt like such a fulfillment, you know, of of the years of prayer and petitioning the Lord and um and watching you guys parent now is just awesome.

They are just, yeah.

Kids, kids can.

Be hard, but it's just like such a blessing every day to have a belly laugh, you know, that just the joy that they bring is.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, I will never forget it.

And I want to brag on you for a second though, uh, again.

Um a lot of people talk about Pastor Ernesto and his joy, you know, and his energy.

Um, I don't think you get enough credit for that.

I gotta be honest.

Yes, so give me credit, not for his joy and energy, but man, like if there's someone that I can think of in my life that I can like make, okay, no matter what I'm going through, like I want to have joy like Amanda has.

I want to have trust and I want to worship like Amanda does.

Because you do it with abandon and you do it with with such such a love for God.

And in every conversation that I ever hear you in, like it's always about Jesus and always about how you can help someone and about how good God is.

And there's a joy that just that just pours out of you and a love for Jesus that pours out of you, an intentionality with people that is that is so amazing that that never stopped when things got the hardest.

And you know, that's a testament to the Lord for sure.

Yeah.

Because when I am at my thinnest, I'm not very kind.

And I'm and and I've never really struggled with anger until I was spread thin.

Sure.

And I realized, oh, I'm I thought I was nice, but like when I don't have a lot of strength, I am not nice.

Sure.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

But she would have never known it interacting with you, you know, like the the fact that you showed up in so many places and were so loving to people when you were going through crap, you know, when you when you felt alone and angry and all that, like I I I just I want to praise God that he gave you that.

Yeah.

And it it also goes back to, thank you for saying that, Jay.

Yeah, also I believe goes back to this idea of um if we believe that God is good and that he is in control, then our pain can have purpose.

You know, our waiting can have purpose.

Like going back to the miracle of, you know, Jairus having to wait for Jesus and he stopped for somebody else, you know.

Um that waiting had purpose.

That waiting actually made the miracle more miraculous.

She wasn't just sick and got better, she was dead.

Right, exactly.

She did.

So, like, so it's um there is a lot of joy to be had in in that knowledge.

In the knowledge of if God is good and he is in control, then I do not have to despair, even though it feels, even though this time is very painful, and it was.

I would say infertility is a unique pain.

It's a it's it's uh cyclical, it happens over and over and over again within a 30-day period.

You're hopeful and then you're crashing, and it's it's very it's hard.

It's hard, and not a lot of people understand it unless they've gone through it.

Yeah.

Um, and so you without the Lord's strength, that kind of joy is impossible.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you for sharing all of that.

Thanks for reminding me of some of that.

Yeah.

Oh, so good.

It's fun that you got you were there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, so fun.

So gentlemen, yes, let's go to this side of the room for a minute.

Uh does God still perform miracles?

What what are your what are your positions on that?

Um and evidences that would support that, Tristan.

Do you store it?

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, yes, I was absolutely I love what you said.

I actually wrote that down in my notes.

Um, you know, sometimes miracles are are big and flashy, sometimes they're small, and sometimes we even miss them, just like Amanda said.

And um our story is a little bit unique uh in that ours happened post-delivery.

Um, so our um for those that don't know, my son was born 27 weeks early, or uh not 13 weeks early, but at 27 weeks gestation.

Seven weeks early.

Yeah, that was that wow weeks gestation.

Which, if you know anything about that, like heart, lungs, all those things aren't fully developed yet.

Um so kind of the story leading up to that, um, a little tidbit about my wife.

She she's not anti-doctor, but she hates going to the doctor.

So who likes it?

Yeah, I was well I so I was at work one day and um I I get a call around lunchtime, and she's like, hey Tristan, uh, just got some of my mom.

I think I need to go to the hospital.

I was like, Cool, like I'm she's like, but you don't you just you stay at work?

I was like, no, I'm I'm I'm gonna come home.

Like I'm I'm there, like just like I'm I'm gonna I'm in my car, like I'm going.

Um so we got home, she kind of debriefed me on what was happening, and we we got into the car, went to the hospital, um, which kind of going back to even missing you know missing miracles, that was a miracle in and of itself that one that she was like, hey, let's go to the hospital, and two, that we went to the hospital when we did.

Um we'll get to that in a second.

But we got to Mansfield Hospital, How Health Mansfield, and um got checked in and our nurse uh was actually uh her name's Dana.

She's two doors down from us, like our unbeknownst to us.

We didn't know that at the time.

Um, but she was actually the head labor and delivery nurse at at Mansfield.

Also a miracle, also a blessing in that moment.

Uh we became quite evident to us when we got there.

Uh Dana was just, you know, getting vitals and just checking over Whitney and stuff, and it turns out she was five centimeters dilated.

And we were like, okay, so this this came it's pretty evident that we're probably not going to be able to stay at Ohio Health Mansfield.

We're probably gonna need to get transferred.

But when?

Yeah.

Um luckily they were able to delay dilation as best as they could for a little bit long enough to get us on an ambulance and uh get us to Riverside.

Um wasn't able to ride into the ambulance.

Uh I rode in the car behind her, but once we got there, you know, they got her checked in and everything, we got checked up to our room and um a bunch of doctors just coming in, just again trying to delay dilation, trying to delay labor.

And one of the people that came in and talked to us um was the charge nurse from the NICU, uh, neonatal intensive care unit, and just trying to prep us for what our life might look like uh if Malachi was born, you know, within the next week.

Uh so in the NICU, they kind of do milestones by week.

So a 27-week gestation is very different than a 28-week, which is very different than 29-week and so on, right?

So like each week has different milestones and different developmental things that are significant for the growth and health of a baby.

Um, so with that, uh, you know, we we were hearing things like, hey, just, you know, if let's say he's born tomorrow, um, it's very likely that he'll have like uh cerebral palsy.

It's very likely that he'll um have like lifelong asthma, um possibly, you know, uh heart and other lung issues, and and hearing that obviously is really difficult.

Um kind of what stuck with me, um, my Josh Atlaw, my father-in-law, he um is given a um sermon at a funeral one time, and one thing that he said was but God, trust God.

In that moment, obviously our our unborn son at the time, really hard, right?

You're you're receiving this information and really all you want to do is cry, right?

You just want to cry and just and pray out and cry out to the Lord.

And in the moment I was just reminded of the butt god, trust God.

But God, this is happening, but trust God, right?

Yeah, that's okay.

And the next day, so we we got to a point to where we were we're like, okay, like labor is gonna be delayed, like we're good, like, but she has to be on bed dressed for 13 weeks, is basically what they were telling us.

Like, do not move, just you're in this hospital.

So we were like, okay, well, we we have to then like work remotely, like we're from the hospital room because uh parental leave only starts once the baby's born.

Sure.

Um so I was in a meeting, it was like 9 a.m.

I was in a meeting in the hospital, and all of a sudden, like uh a doctor comes and shuts my laptop.

In the moment, I'm like, like I was meeting with our our our yeah, high up.

So I was like, wow.

Um and then all of a sudden, like people start garbing me up.

Like I was in getting in white white garb and I was like, okay.

Wait, you were in the room with her?

Yeah.

You were in the room.

I was in the room, yes.

She was over there, but I had my headset on, you know, I was I was doing my meeting.

Like, I was he had no idea.

I had nobody was doing anyway.

So they got me my white garb on and they're like, Yeah, your your baby's gonna be born like 30 minutes.

So I was like, okay.

Um, so you know, we went to the top.

Were you that calm?

No.

Uh no.

He said, okay.

So we went to the OR and like I was I was trying to get into the because they wouldn't let me in there right away because I'm like, oh yeah, you have to wait.

What they give like the final block and all that stuff for the C-section stuff.

So I had to wait.

So I was out in the hallway and I was like calling my mother-in-law, like, Donna, like, like get here.

Like, yeah, we need you because uh previously Whitney and I were talking, and it was like, hey, if for any reason uh baby needs to be separated from from Whitney, like I'm like the plan was for me to go follow Malachi and for her mom to eventually get to her.

So like Donna, you've got to get here.

I don't know how much time we have, but like baby's coming now.

Um so finally I I was able to get into the room at 10 a.m.

I was when he was born.

And um, you know, we were we were in the operating room for first first eat first seat section, and uh I'll never forget his it wasn't a cry, it was like a whimper.

Like a whimper, and I gasped for air.

Um and he couldn't breathe on his own.

So he um, you know, we they they had all the the normal L and D staff in there, but also the Nikki staff, and the Nikki staff took him and put him in a uh what they call an isolate, uh, which is basically like a crib with like a cover over it so that it could be heated to the correct temperature and and all of that stuff.

Um, so I I followed Malachi um and you know those next four hours were very intense.

You know, Whitney was in postpartum recovery, um just having trying to get the spinal block to wear off and and other stuff, and I was with Malachi, and you know, they were you know given all these different vitamins and you know, asking um doing some sterile procedures and um one of the things that they gave him was surfactin, which is um uh a steroid to help uh the intent was to help the lungs develop uh fast tracked, basically.

Yeah.

Um so she she finally was able to join us about four hours later.

And um he um his diaper size was an MP, micropremi, is what they call it.

Um he was probably yay, but he was less than three pounds.

Well wasn't allowed to wear clothes until he was about a month and a half old.

Really?

Yeah, because you have to be uh a certain weight to for them to allow you to put clothes on them.

Um so we had to wait for that.

So there was a lot of a lot of first that we were waiting on, but throughout that whole journey, um the NICU you uh they describe it as a roller coaster.

So he could have one day that's like a supreme high, and then the next day take four steps backwards.

Just um we spent 75 days in the NICU.

Wow.

Um long grueling.

Um we were able to get an extended hospital stay for Whitney.

So from birth until we got discharged, we were allowed four days instead of the normal two days.

Okay.

Um so we were actually stay there on site.

After that, um, we drove from our house in Mansfield to and from Columbus every day to be with him.

You know, we leave our house about 6 30 in the morning, uh, and then we'd get home 6, 6 30 at night.

Um, and we did that to obviously be with him, right?

And into um Nikki doctors every day.

They do what they call rounds, well, they'll go to every room and kind of give a status update on on treatment plan and and um answer any questions that the parents have.

Uh we we often joke we we were the only parents that were there every day.

Um and the Nikki doctors uh would uh budget a certain amount of time for our room to the amount of questions and stuff that we had.

Uh if you know me, that's no surprise.

Um But there were so many things.

I think all what I was reminded of during that time is the bridge of Waymaker.

Oh, it's like even when I don't see it, you're working, even when I don't feel it you're working, you never stop, you never stop working.

Um it's kind of like one of those like I don't know what you're doing right now, but I trust you.

And I trust that um your will will be done and um that your hand of protection and healing is gonna be over my son.

Um we're doing the best that we can, both in parental support, but also are at the you know, to your point, the highest rated hospital and and medical team that we can get him is there.

Yeah.

Yeah um, you know also to your point, too, with um some of the bill.

I mean, it was over a million dollars our hospital said.

And wow.

Luckily there's insurance and there's you know, some of those, some of those programs and stuff that I got that JP Smucker money.

Well, not that but it's um yeah, by by by God's grace and mercy, we praise God, man.

Malachi was discharged at 75 days.

He was affectionately known as the grandpa of the NICU because he was the you know longest term baby there and the oldest one there.

And he left with no complications.

Wow, no complications at all.

That is a miracle.

That's literally like I not to quote another worship song, but in Matthew West in one of his lyrics, it's um walking, living, breathing miracle.

Like literally, yeah that's Malachi to a T.

Like Yeah, he he literally um I mean every parent's gonna say this, but he's perfect, you know?

Like he literally, uh yeah, I I think that's just a true testament to the Lord at work.

And you talk about a faith journey, like wow, we we we went through some pretty low lows during that time.

I'm I'm not gonna not gonna you know sugar like that, but it was it was really hard, and I'm glad that um one, that we had each other, but two that we were able um to turn to the Lord during that time and and really just spend a lot of intentional time and in prayer and really hold true to that motto of butt God, trust God.

Um fast forward to our second pregnancy.

Um Whitney was kind of the miracle story in this case.

So our our daughter was born.

Um her her birth story is a little bit unique.

There were a couple of um a couple of uh complications throughout that, but really perfect other than that.

Um but with Whitney, uh Whitney had um um uh fourth degree tear.

So um through that, obviously there's a lot of excessive uh you know recovery and stuff like that uh that comes along with that, but uh even more so um she did a postpartum hemorrhaging.

So that's really scary too, yeah, just because of the amount of bleeding and stuff that that comes with that.

And you know, Whitney was literally bleeding for over two months, um, nonstop.

So and then one day just stopped and it was just you know, the doctors and stuff that we had talked to were like, yeah, this is you know, we we were going back and forth on a lot of um kind of getting different opinions and stuff, and everybody's like, Oh yeah, that's totally normal.

Like it's totally normal for you to be doing this for up to a year.

Up to a year, and we're like, um, are are you sure?

Because like every other woman that we're talking to is like, no, that's not normal, honey.

Like you need to, you need to go get that figured out, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like, no, it's um it's like I'm I have a woman with an issue.

Yeah.

So but yeah, it just again, like by God's grace and mercy, just uh we were actually in Hilton Head and it just miraculously stopped.

Well praise the Lord and bless your wife's heart.

That's awful.

Yeah, yeah.

But the fact that like I mean, life stopped for you guys, yeah.

Like, but you got to see the Lord work in your child and like watch him grow outside the womb, which is really cool, but also like a really scary season to have to go through.

Like, obviously that's not optimal, yeah.

But now you now you have a story and you have a son that represents God's faithfulness through it through the darkest times, yeah, you know, and when when the future seems so uncertain and when things are not going the way they're supposed to, you know, um you have a little boy running around, yeah, that that is so sweet and so fun, and um you get to love on and cherish and teach about Jesus, yeah, you know, who saved him and gave him life, um and saved him from the very beginning, you know.

Um yeah, so cool, so cool.

Um, how has that shown up?

Like like have there been times when you've been able to look back on that season and just remembered his faithfulness in that and that stuff to sustain you through things now?

Yeah, it's completely changed the way I parent.

Um, like so much so like crying, for example, and it's a small example, but for as an example, like uh, you know, crying is a gift.

My son could not cry for months, you know, because his his lungs and stuff just weren't developed to a point where he was that strong enough to cry.

The moment I heard him cry, I cried.

In all seriousness, like I was such a beautiful thing and something that I'll never take care of.

So, like, even like you know, uh I know that like crying can become maybe overwhelming for for some parents, but every time, like I'm not like, oh, give me more.

Like, that's some so like it's just like wow, but what a gift.

How how beautiful.

And like there are certain things like you know, even even more of his story, like him him being able to crawl, him being able to walk, or him just come up to me now.

Like just a few months ago, like for the first time, he he told me that he loved me, and it was in context and intentional.

Yeah, I was a puddle.

Yeah, yeah.

How do I how do I come back from this, you know?

Yeah, um, but there are so many more things.

Like, I I feel like I have such more of an appreciation for like the mundane and small things in life.

Um things that maybe a lot of people just overlook and take for for granted, right?

Um, because you're right, our our lives um maybe get to get in a little bit more of the details.

Um, our employer at the time, my wife and I both worked at uh the JM Smucker Company.

And uh when you work there, you're given um 12 weeks of of parental leave, and then the the mom is given eight additional weeks um for recovery.

So she uh would have gotten what was that 20 weeks?

Um but since we both worked there, we either had to share the 12 weeks or it was like a zero twelve scenario.

Really?

Yeah.

Whoa.

So we did zero that seems illegal.

Yeah.

I don't know because I knew Whitney being like Whitney didn't Whitney would not have had the headspace to be able to like do work.

Sure.

It would have been remote.

Yeah.

Um so kind of what our days looked like is we would get to the hospital and I would I would have bring out the laptop with me and you know I would be able to work.

There was some flexibility there on on when and what I was doing.

But um, I you know, the expectation was that I was gonna work in the hospital the whole time.

Um so just little things like that too, like looking back, like I'm I'm very grateful that that flexibility on option was even there.

Sure.

Um it sure would have been fantastic to have the total, but like just the fact that I was able to work in the hospital for um 75 days was amazing.

Yeah.

A lot of jobs you couldn't do there.

So yeah.

We got A lot of good people work at at Riverside, and that was one of the the greatest things.

We we were actually able to um kind of see the Lord through through some people too there, which is amazing.

And I think that's part of like what I hope people gain from hearing some of these stories and just some of this conversation.

The the miracles that Jesus uh performed um and the other uh characters in the Bible performed as well.

I call them characters, but they were people.

Um it wasn't just to make your situation better, you know.

When Jesus fed the 5,000, sure he was feeding them and making their situation better, but it was to show them like, hey, like to be able to have the conversation later on the other side of the sea, I'm the bread of life, I'm what you need, you know, like it's it's to help people understand like God is present with them.

It goes back to the to the first miracle that you talked about in today's episode of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo.

Like God is present in your mess and wants to wants you to see that He is going through this stuff with you, that He sees you, that He loves you, and uh apparently it's the best way because it's the way that He does it, you know, is to show like to let you see like man, without me, this is what life is like.

When sin and chaos and death reigns in your life, when I'm when I'm separate from you, this is what this is the the fruit of that.

Yeah.

But when I step into this, when I fix the mess, when I show you my love for you and my presence in your life, everything is gonna turn out better than what you could have imagined it being if you never went through it.

You know, because imagine like imagine your life without Lavelle and Campbell.

No way, you can't.

That's your family.

No, you know imagine life with without your kids, you know.

Your your guys' story as well is is it's based all around like your kids as well.

You know, it's like the the miracles we chose today all have to do with the kids.

I we have one a story like that as well with Lizzie, where we thought we thought we had a couple more weeks to go, but turns out her fluid was super low.

And if we didn't like induce labor the day we happened to have a uh an appointment, then Lizzie would have some pretty serious complications.

But Monica just had this feeling, you know, she was like, I feel like we see to go do an ultrasound, you know, just just just to check on her.

And the doctor was like, Nah, it's fine, you know.

She you got you got a couple weeks, it's good.

She was like, No, we're we're gonna go.

Like, we're gonna go do an ultrasound.

And her fluid, like, turns out was super low.

And the doctor was like, Okay, yeah, we she needs to come today, you know, and so the fact that all these are based around kids and everything is life is a miracle for sure.

Amen.

Michael, I don't want to skip your story.

We have we have some time.

Can you share with us the miracle of your kids and your guys' journey with all of that?

I know you've shared on this pod before, but to be able to be able to do that now, I think would be super special.

And I know we're kind of tight on time, but but I I I I will promise I will go through this quickly, but to really understand like to yes, God does miracles, God is constantly performing miracles.

Um and it starts, I uh my entire life, my whole family line.

We can go back to the year 1937.

My grandfather died.

He was a five-year-old boy who died of double pneumonia.

His family was poor, had no money for a doctor, literally raised from the dead, like through the power, um, brought back to life.

Fast forward, he's in his 20s.

Now he's a he's a traveling evangelist.

He goes to a small town in Versailles, Missouri, meets a young girl who has polio, who is crippled.

She had snuck out of her house to go to the church meeting because she had heard that people were being healed.

And so in faith, snuck, got her mom to help her sneak out of her house.

Her dad said no.

They snuck out, went to the to uh the the city across town, or uh uh, anyways, went to another, went to the the church meeting.

Um, she has to be rolled in on a wheelchair.

Um, they have crutches so that she can kind of hobble around.

She goes down to the front, she is completely healed.

Like the next day, they went to Kansas City, saw the doctors, cleared her of polio.

Wow, wow.

She then married that preacher boy that was my grandmother.

Uh and so then fast forward a few more years, my my mother is born.

She grows up, meets my dad.

My dad had a crippling alcohol addiction.

He was an he was not a believer in Christ at all.

Um, my mom uh had a dream that uh sh of what her life would look like if they continued to live the life that they were living.

Uh my mom had grown up in church, knew the Lord, but had had turned away and went to my dad and said, like, listen, if you don't stop with the with the drinking, if you don't stop doing all the like I'm gonna leave you.

And this was before I was born.

My older brother was born, I was not yet born.

Um that night he he broke down before the Lord, um, you know, prayed the sinner's prayer, like gave his life to the Lord.

The very next night, goes back out to the bar, takes a sip of beer, spits it out because he cannot stand the taste of it.

Well, like God literally like changed whatever he did.

So has never had a drink since then.

He's he's in his 60s, um, has has never had a drink since that night.

Wow.

Um, completely transformed.

Well, proof a few years later, I'm born.

And I could go on and on and on about how cancer that I've that we've seen.

I I had my own near-death experience that like only the Lord could have done.

We could be here all day talking about I've seen miracle upon miracle upon miracle.

Um that yeah.

Um, and so fast forward to my boys.

So very similar to your story, Amanda Um Lyric was told she children were difficult at best, you know.

Um, and you know, we uh you probably heard my story.

Fisher took us seven, eight years, um finally went through a couple miscarriages of our own.

Um finally Fisher is born, uh, but has his own NICU stay, not nearly as long as you guys were there for for Malachi, but we had our own 40-day journey um in the in the NICU.

Um and it turns out Fisher was was diagnosed with a developmental disability that he is an absolute miracle.

Um an absolute, absolute miracle.

And what God has done through that little boy and who he is now five years later is incredible.

Like, you know, doctors not even knowing that he if he'd ever walk, if he'd ever talk, um, and now I can't get him to stop jumping.

He's we literally call him jumper boy because he's just constantly jumping, jumping, jumping, jumping.

Um, and then our newest little miracle, Stone.

Um, I got to share um the story from from platform at both the Ontario campus and Mansfield campus.

Um, but this little boy, um just what God did in Lyric's body, like like tangible, physically, like we we can we medically saw like the miracle of how God touched her body and caused it to function in the way that it should have functioned in such a time frame as to let this little boy be conceived.

Um and man, and so we we've named him uh Stone, our son Stone, because uh he's based out of Joshua chapter four.

Um we've been studying the book of Joshua prior to our our seventh series, and it just really we were sitting in small group uh at at a table um and talking about those stones of remembrance that you know when when generations after ask what do those stones mean, yes, um, then we get to tell all that God has done.

And so kind of in a almost as a prof a prophetic declaration over his life that people are going to ask, Why is your name stone?

And he's gonna be able to say, Well, because let me tell you what God did.

And and so um he, yeah, he he was born Janu uh January, July 5th at four pounds, seven ounces.

Yeah, teeny tiny here as we stand today on the 26th of August.

He is uh just about eight pounds now.

Big old boy inside nearly four um and he's doing great, he's doing so, so well.

Um, and so I cannot I cannot look at my my whole life from from generations backwards to generations forward.

The hand of God has the miraculous hand of God has been upon my life, and you cannot convince me that God is not actively working in our lives, doing things, guiding hands, doing supernatural miracles.

Like you cannot convince me that he's not doing that, right?

Dude, top that yeah, that's amazing.

Like you you mentioned um uh a little bit ago, Amanda, that we've seen some miracles happening here at our church recently.

Yeah, and you you alluded to you know seeing cancer being healed, we've seen cancer be healed, and that came out of uh recognizing God's authority and obeying him, because we uh as like um the the cancer healing that we're that I think all three of us are referring to um that happened here a couple months ago, um like was a result of us obeying what scripture tells us to do, which is to anoint the sick in James 5, you know, and at the end the and that to have the elders pray over them and they'll be healed.

I remember the first miracle I ever saw was from like like using James 5.

My uncle had been electrocuted at a construction site and was deemed paralyzed for life, like was wheelchair-ridden, everything that we went to his church and I remember going and um Kingsway Christian Church in Plainfield, Indiana, or Avon, Indiana, and that's where they were taking at the time.

And I had never heard of this, I was like six, and they anointed and prayed over him, and the doctors were astounded because his spinal cord was healed, you know, and now he's walking.

Wow, and you know, and like it like ever since then, I've been like, wait, wait, wait, I want to hear somebody say, like, yeah, God doesn't work like that anymore.

I'm like, what are you talking about?

Like, of course he does, but I think it's easy for us to to assume that because so many of us are in the season of waiting, yeah.

So many of us are in the season of you're you're in the 75 days in the NICU still, you know, you're in the first round of IVF still, yeah.

You know, you haven't gone to Ephesus and been prayed over for child number two yet, you know.

Um like the the the amount of things that that people are just stuck in and they're they're they're wanting God to fulfill the the their wants and their needs in the way that they think is best, but God has something better for them eventually.

And and man, the the the unfortunate part for I guess it's not unfortunate because it inevitably does end to ultimate healing, is that it that the miracle doesn't always look like the the miraculous happening now, right?

The reality is we all are benefiting from the best miracle ever, which is Jesus coming in flesh, the word becoming flesh, amen, and and dying for our sins so that we can be with God any in eternity, um with no more pain, no more suffering, all those things.

Um all of these healings.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

All of these healings are, you know, like even when Lazarus was raised up from the dead, Lazarus died again.

Right.

Like later, you know, he lived a life and then he died again.

You know, all of these are just a taste of what eternity is going to be.

Right.

Even like the healings that we experience or the miracles that we experience are just a taste of what we're gonna get in heaven, right?

So like sometimes a miracle is unsurpassing joy in the middle of a circumstance that doesn't make sense.

That's a miracle, right?

Right.

Or um, or strength under something that like most you know an ordinary person would buckle under.

That is a miracle, right?

Right.

So yeah, it's a taste of eternity for sure.

Oh, I I love that perspective.

I love that.

I I just we we just had my grandma's funeral last week.

And man, having the eternal perspective, knowing that the Lord could have healed her and brought her out of hospice and she could have lived 20 more years and been fine, you know, whatever.

He chose not to do that, but having the eternal perspective, I just I remember standing in there and being like, Man, I'm just happy for her, you know?

Yeah, like, yeah, I'm sad, I won't get to talk to her, you know, until you know we're standing face to face with Jesus together.

But man, like she does not have to carry the burdens of her trauma anymore.

She does not have to carry the burdens of how people have hurt her or the this the decisions that she wish that she would have made differently.

Yeah.

Um, or even having to make more tough decisions in the future, you know.

She feels so good.

She yeah, she feels great.

The lowest of lows she will ever experience for the rest of eternity is better than anything I can imagine.

Yes.

Right now.

And so like for the people that that um wonder why God doesn't heal their loved ones or is not healing them, my heart breaks for them.

Yeah, you know, because that there there's there is not a good answer outside of he just hasn't worked how he plans to work yet, whether that's in bringing you into him in eternity or bringing that loved one to him in eternity, um, or he just hasn't done that thing in the way that he wants to do it yet, you know.

And so um, I think if I can encourage people that are watching today that are that are waiting for a miracle, have an eternal perspective.

No, know that God is working, know that that Jesus is the only thing you know that we can truly rely on.

Yes, he is the only thing that truly fulfills.

And even when he is working in your life, even even when he feeds the 5,000, when he walks on the water, when when he rises from the grave, it is all so that we can be in relationship with him.

It is so that we only learn to rely on him, not on our circumstances.

But praise God, when he perform when he does feed the 5,000, praise God, when he does pull our kids out of the hospital.

Praise God when we we get to grow our family so that we can so we can share that good stuff with people now so that they can experience that hope too.

Say, hey, look how God worked in my life and the things that he's done on top of that, um, outside of just saving me from my sin, um, he you can have that too.

He he wants he wants to share his goodness and his love with you.

Guys, thanks for today.

This is good.

Any any closing thoughts at all from anybody else?

God does miracles, have faith.

Try to leave.

Yep.

Trust God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What was the line by God?

Trust God, trust God.

Yeah.

Josh Atwell, that's for you.

Awesome.

Thanks today for today, guys.

Appreciate you.

That's great.