What then shall we say?

Good morning. Yeah, OK.

I'm sure by now giving you enough time to get to the book

of Romans chapter 8. I just want to launch off one

Romans 8 · chapter mention

verse before we get into the weeds, so to speak.

And this is Romans 8, verse 31. If you're taking notes, it says

Romans 8:31

the following says simply. What then, shall we say in

response to these things? What things?

Well, obviously the things that we've covered in the last few

months in the chapter that we've been chewing on Romans chapter

Romans 8 · chapter mention

8, entitled More than Conquerors.

And he's saying, well, are we? What then shall we say in

response to these things? You see, Paul's a master

builder, He's a wordsmith. He's crafted this argument.

He's presented us the the evidence of what God has done on

our behalf in the way he sees us.

But this evidence demands A verdict.

And so he's saying, OK, what are you going to do with it?

You know, he's he's as a builder, so to speak, He's not

sure to test these foundations and say, have you set the the

foundations biblically in your life?

I remember many years ago for those who are joining us from

the heart of the beer sports, we started on this property in 2007

in a tent. And it's one of those snow peak

tents and it's this seats about 2000 people.

So it's quite a big structure and it required really solid

foundations. But because it's not a building,

these foundations essentially were blocks of cement.

So it was almost 2 meters by two meters by two meters that

they're buried in the soil and with rebar and everything inside

there. And then they brought a crane

along and they put up to 10 tons of pull pressure on these

massive blocks, these foundation stones.

They needed to stay in the ground because the entire

structure was anchored to these blocks.

And so the one day I came around to see what was happening.

And so I got the job of standing with, I don't know if you've

seen it. You know, those guys, the civil

engineers, they had the funny little thing that they're

scoping through. And I had to stand with a little

ruler, glorified ruler on this massive chunk of cements.

I did have a hard hats on. I don't know why I had a hard

hat on and I had this little thing and then there was this

crane that came and pulled 10 tons worth of I'm just thinking,

you know, if this fails because I need to test it, but it

wouldn't fail when the tent is set up.

I'm like, if this thing fails, it's going to be so I'm standing

there. Only one of them did fail, but

it was the weirdest thing. It was just literally went and

it's 10 ton. Whatever that thing was was

about 2cm above the ground and the cable was rattling and we

had to take that thing out and we had to reset it because when

the storms come, that things, if it fails, then collateral damage

could cost our lives, definitely cost the future of three CR.

And so you test those foundations and Paul is saying

to us we need to do exactly the same.

What then shall we say in response to these things in

verse 31? He goes on to say in verse 38

for I am convinced, but are you, are you convinced what we've

covered what Scripture speaks about in Romans chapter 8, John

Romans 8 · chapter mention

Wesley tells in his Diaries, he was saying how he used to

travel. John Wesley was a preacher up in

Europe and used to travel the circuit that he used to do in

about 10-12 years go from church to church, pulpit to pulpit.

And he's got one of his favorite places that he always looked

forward to going. It was a, it was a little town

set up on a harbour, but it was a natural harbour back in the

days, I think back in the 1700s where river mouth had opened up

and it had sort of created this natural harbour.

And he loved the place because business was flourishing.

There were Taverns there, churches there, massive ships

would come with their cargoes and trade happening.

And it was always the highlight of a circuit until one day he

hadn't been there for 10 or 11 years.

He came and it was a ghoster because what had happened was he

eventually found out was they had a number of storms inland

and it had brought floodwaters down from this river into the

river mouth, this harbour. And it's simply filled it up

with silt to the point where these massive ships could no

longer come in. So they went somewhere else with

their trade. And it's essentially strangled

the city 1 grain of sand at a time.

And you see that happens with us as Christians in our journey

with Jesus. Our hearts get filled with the

sediments of cynicism and and and struggle and what have you

and Romans 8 is meant to come and dredge the harbour of our

hearts. But has it have you let it

because Paul says what then shall we say in response to

these things? I'm convinced, but are you now

if you haven't been around for those who are visiting us today,

I wanted to pick up 88 things from Romans 8 that we've

covered, but I'm just going to do 8.

Hilton is like yours. It's going to be a long day, but

I just these are literally extrapolated from my notes going

to pop them up there. How does it land on your heart?

Here's the first one. Remember this, the same spirit

that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you.

Let that sink in, dwells in you and will quicken your mortal

body. Remember we preached on healing.

Can you remember you walked out ordained to go and heal?

Can you remember there was a fire and you went and you

decided I'm going to pray for everyone.

I see you sick. Are you still doing that?

Here's the second one. Romans 8 invites us to Zoe life.

This is where we started. Jesus said, I've come that you

may have life and life to the full Zoe life, the fullness of

all that God has for you and dreams for you.

Nothing missing, nothing broken. Has that leaked into your prayer

life? You said you promised Nothing

missing, nothing broken. I heard the other day the

simplest definition of prayer is Dad, you promised, He promised a

fullness that all that God has for you in dreams, so you're

nothing missing, nothing broken. Are you convinced #3 sin is the

greatest power known to man? Drew this out of my notes.

Next to God himself, this is Martin Luther Jones's quote.

Sin is the greatest power known to man next to God himself.

Sin is so powerful, even God's holy law cannot deliver us from

it, and we unpacked that. But are you still running back

to your To Do List, trying to earn your salvation, trying to

make right so that maybe God will like you because you're not

convinced? Another one.

Therefore now no Ted prayed it earlier, No condemnation, no

separation, no disqualification. What then shall we say in

response to these things? So can I ask you, what then have

you said in response to these things?

Is there fruit in your life? Is there a change or is your

heart filled with assault and the cynicism of day-to-day and

you say, well, that's nice, but what then shall we say we looked

at justification to be free from any guilt or shame, to be

innocent, free from any debt, penalty or punishment, to be

pleasing to God. Do you know that that's which

you are, as a son and daughter of the Most High, pleasing to

God, whereby he finds no fault in you, holds no charge against

you, but rather sees you as valuable, useful and desirable?

What then shall we say in response to that?

Has it done anything in your life?

This is Chads quote. The Holy Spirit is not just the

seal of your salvation, but he is the force of your

transformation. Oh, you are not on spiritual

probation. You are not barely.

You are not a barely tolerated Sinner.

That's probably why you're sitting at home watching online

right now. Because you genuinely think that

you are a barely tolerated Sinner trying to make your way

home, and instead of letting Rome's take a hold of your

heart, you're sitting there and the enemy has you captive.

Rather, you're justified, adopted, deeply loved child of

God. And no one can reverse that

verdict, not even you. That last one, the God of all

creation has set His sights on you, longing to pour Himself out

on you to rescue, redeem and restore if only you would let

Him. Have you.

Essentially that what Paul is asking.

That's what Scripture is asking. That's what I am asking.

Have you let God have you. See, our response should be just

like Paul's response verse 31. What then shall I say in

response to these things? These are some of the things

that should come out of your mouth.

If God is for me, who can be against me?

He didn't spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all.

How will He not also, along with all things, graciously give us

all things? Who will bring any charge

against those whom God has chosen?

There's God who justifies. Who then is the one who

condemns? No one Christ Jesus who died

more than that, who is raised to life is at the right hand of God

and is also interceding for us. Hey, if you put a list down and

say I know you're interceding for me.

Can I just put a few things on your prayer list?

Jesus who shall separate us from the love of Christ shall trouble

or hardship or persecution or feminine or nakedness or

dangerous sword. Verse 37 no, and all these

things we are more than conquerors through him who loved

us for I am convinced, says Paul.

But this church is painfully quiet.

I see you there. Is this you 100% or throughout

the entire series of Romans chapter eights?

All that's happened is foundation after foundation

after foundation. If not if, if that's if you're

going like I can see you going. It's like I don't even know if I

want to take notes. Yeah, it's amazing.

I can feel the spiritual pushback on the promises of God.

And if that's you, let me tell you why.

Let's look at these verses again.

Verse 31 point #2 We have all of this, and if it's not landing on

a house, This is why. What then shall we say in

response to these things? If God is for us, what does it

say? Who can be against us?

He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all,

how will He not also, along with Him, graciously give us all

things? Who will bring any charge

against those whom God has chosen?

It is God who justifies. Say it with me.

Who then is the one who condemns no one?

Christ Jesus, who died more than that who was raised to life, is

at the right hand of God, and is also interceding for US1 More

time. Who shall separate us from the

love of Christ? Can I tell you who The Who is?

You said Doctor Zeus, The Who is you don't sit there like this,

look in a mirror. But so in the Bible, I want to

show you something and I don't want to make a theology out of

this, but this is my little observation.

In the Bible, it was very frowned upon when you were

writing scripture to use emojis. So what they did instead was

they would repeat things to emphasize it went punctuation

like we have or underlining or in bold.

So when they talk spoke about like a really big pit, it would

be a pit pit, you know, maybe we use it when it was a really hard

exam. It was hard, hard.

And so Scripture uses that to emphasize, which is why God,

who's holy is not just holy. He's spoken of as holy, holy,

holy. That's how they try and

describe. So I'm looking at this and I see

you've got God, holy holy holy but got you 4 times.

Which means that all of Romans chapter 8 that Paul has been

Romans 8 · chapter mention

lavishing us with comes down to 1 tiny little The Who is you

when you forget? I don't know if you know Laura's

story. That's her name, Laura Story.

I don't know if you know Laura's story.

Story. So Laura's story, she's a Grammy

award-winning singer-songwriter, a lovely believer, very

outspoken about her faith, married to a man who's very

famous in the baseball world, also outspoken about his faith.

His name is Martin. And they were newlyweds and

Martin discovered he had a tumor and he needed an operation.

And so the doctor sat the couple down and said, listen, just so

you know, this is part of the prefrontal cortex and it means

that when we take out this tumor, we might take out

memories. You know, it's just the way that

it works where this tumor is situated.

So we don't quite know how much function he's going to have post

op and how many, many memories he's going to have post op.

And so goes through the operation of successful full

functionality, but he has literally been hemorrhaging

memories because of this operation.

And so one of the things that he forgot, well, the details about

his marriage, forgot wooing her, dating her, forgot getting down

on one knee, saying those vows, forgot the honeymoon, forgot the

first few years of their marriage.

But one thing he didn't forget it was he remembers having a

massive crush on Laura back when they were in school together.

So they're sitting there post op and what have you and Laura's

there. Obviously the doctor's doing all

the tests. And you know, later on, a day or

two later, he says, listen, Laura, sorry, can I ask you

something like really personal? She says, sure, what do you want

to know? He's like, why are you always

here? So she says some, you know, I

don't know how to break this to you, but I'm actually your wife,

like, stares for a second. And he's like, yes, side notes,

guys, if you ever get a brain tumor, have an operation, lose a

whole bunch of memories, and the lady on the end of the bed says

to you, she's your wife. That is the answer.

Back to the sermon. Imagine forgetting something

like that. We do it every day.

We sit on a Sunday with singers, the songs.

We might take some notes. We're not quite convinced that

on Monday it's gone and The Who becomes you and all of this

comes to a standstill because The Who that is you has

forgotten. Or maybe you're just not

convinced. I think I might have mentioned

the story I heard about a guy who's his dad was a mean drunk.

At his worst, he actually stuffed him as a boy into the

washing machine to try and drown him.

But the worst was he said that was nothing.

The worst for him was that whenever his dad was drunk, he

called him stupid #5 that was this.

The guy was the fifth boy in the family, and the dad just called

him stupid #5 worse than attempted murder.

Stupidness stupid #5 stupid #5 now you put that man on your end

of the pulpit, hearing about a God who loves and cares and

pursues and delights. Not convinced if he calls

himself Father? Not convinced we're much the

same. Finally, how the demons and all

our past far more convincing than a God who gives his only

begotten Son to die in your stead.

Why is it that we are more convinced by the demons of our

past and the God of our future, our Father?

Maybe that's why you or The Who just not convinced.

Maybe it's a little bit of Stockholm syndrome.

I don't know if you know Stockholm Syndrome.

It was in the back of I think in 1973.

There's a bank robbery in Sweden and they gathered a whole bunch

of ladies who were working at the time and they stuffed them

into a vaults with explosives and they threatened to kill them

all if they didn't get their ransom demands or whatever the

robbers do other than steep robbing the bank.

And what happened was by the time, I think it was almost a

week, maybe more than a week by the time that came, you know,

where it's like they're trying to negotiate and eventually they

come through the windows and, you know, repelling through the

ceiling. Whatever the case might be.

By the time that moment happened, those ladies would not

give up their captors because they'd already given them their

hearts. Somehow through the week,

compassion, concern, worry led to actually giving them their

hearts. They would not testify in court,

wouldn't identify them because the captives held them so long

that they'd actually given them their hearts.

So too with your sin. It holds you captive for so long

that actually it's really nice being the center of attention

and feeding the flesh to give this tiny little thing up.

For that, I'm not so sure. So you become The Who.

Or lastly, we glamorize our struggles.

Yeah, but you don't know what it's like being married to him.

Yeah, but you don't know him. My dad was an alcoholic and my

grandfather, you know, like, it's a kind of a given.

We glamorize our struggles. Can I just say that if you've

been struggling with something for the last ten, 11-12 years,

it's not a struggle. It's a stronghold and we pander

towards it and we fiddle with it and eventually you become The

Who who condemns no one. It is God who justifies.

But you sent me. Oh, sorry, sorry for you.

I'll hold the keys. So if you are The Who to all the

dearly beloved, arms crossed wormies looking over their

glasses at me, all the youngsters going like, yeah, you

don't know what I've done. I want to take the last portion

of our time together. I want to show you how how you

get to this point that Paul got to you, how I got there.

I want to share one thing. I'll tell you if there's one

thing I could give each and every one of you, if I had to do

coffee with all of you and just I would scooch the Bible across

and have you read a portion of Scripture and tell you what I'm

about to tell you now. That it is the single most

powerful, freeing, life changing revelation I've ever had in my

whole entire life. And I want to encourage you and

I want to invite you take a hold of this, lay a hold of this one

thing, because if you don't, you will remain The Who.

The one that keeps you back. So I want to show you and I lost

10 minutes together, that which has helped me overcome some

strongholds, struggles, the sediments in our hearts.

And I want to tie it into where we've started right at the very

beginning. Remember for those who are

visiting from Harti Saad, we began Romans eights by showing

the inheritance that Israel was meant to have.

Remember it was from the mountains to the sea, from the

the rivers to the wilderness and it was about four or five times

the size of South Africa. What God had intended them the

so-called promised land. But after a whole bunch of sin

and stupidity they were living and are still living and

something about the size of the Kruger National Park.

And we presented this as a Old Testament image of what happens

in our lives as that sediment strangles the God life in in US

saying that actually, if you are able to lay hold of and apply

Romans chapter 8, you will live in the fullness of what God has

Romans 8 · chapter mention

for you, right? So that's where we started.

Now we've gone through Romans chapter 8.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

Now, if you started saying like, I think I'm living in a 20% of

what God has for you and now you may be 21%, I think you've

seriously missed it. But I want to show you how to go

from there today because this is how God says the nation of

Israel was meant to go from there to there.

Because right in the middle of where we were tearing that page

and losing our inheritance and the the the plans and purposes

that God had for Israel, right in the middle of them losing it

all. He says one thing in one verse

that has radically changed my life and can change your life

and was meant to change their life as well.

And that is in Jeremiah 2 verse 19, he says this.

Jeremiah 2:19

He says consider and realize how evil and bitter it is for you

when you abandon the Lord your God and have no awe of me,

declares the Lord God Almighty. He's basically saying you've

abandoned me. The reason for that is that you

have no awe of me. I looked in the amplified

version and says you are indifferent.

You know, it's being different means you come week after week,

Sunday after Sunday, Romans 8th sermon after Romans 8th sermon

and at the end of it, your responses consider and realize

how evil and bitter it is for you when you abandoned the Lord

your God and have no awe of me. I want to show you what that

abandoned looks like. Hilton's been begging for a hug

publicly. So Hilton, come give me a hug

publicly. All righty.

So this to that no keep hugging. Keep this to that no keep

hugging. This is abandoned.

Thank you, thank you. See, we think abandoned.

You know, you join the the the satanic cults in the corner.

You know, it's just that 1° off in your heart when you walk out

on a sudden and go, you know, they really didn't sing the

songs that I like. We're not singing to you.

Sorry, sorry. My therapist says on this,

consider and realize the evil, how evil and bitter it is for

you when you abandon the Lord your God and have no or when a

lack of awe just leads to this. So I want to add this in here

because this is the best way I can describe this thing, but I

apologize ahead of the time because I'm going after you men.

But Doctor William Bradford Wilcox, he's a secular scientist

and he studied marriages, secular guy, not, not through a

biblical lens. He's not a Christian at all.

I think actually he's got like agnostic leanings.

But he found something fascinating.

He said, you know, the, the people that sit at the very top

of the power when it comes to marriages are Christians.

And, you know, the people that sit at the very bottom when it

comes to marriages are Christians.

So he did a little bit of digging going, you know,

something seriously wrong with these people.

And this is what he found. Let's talk about the ones at the

very top. The happiest women and the

happiest marriages are ladies who are married to actively

involved evangelical Christian men, quote UN quote.

In other words, those who are still captivated by Jesus.

The happiest marriages when ladies are married to actively

involved evangelical Christian men, they are four times happier

than how they measure that than any other.

Have ideas? But I don't think that's what he

did. Four times happier than any

other segment of society. They are the most loving and

engaged fathers and husbands. And they also produce the lowest

rates of divorce of any group. And then he also added they are

the safest men to marry because that's actually the backbone of

the study. It was a gender based violence

study said the safest. There's all these other knock on

effects, but the safest is to be married to a man who stole in

awe of Jesus. Flip the tables.

The most vulnerable to abuse, pain and rejection of those

married to nominal Christian men.

You know what a nominal Christian man is?

It looks like this just simply does that goes on to say you

would be safer ladies to be single.

This is an unsaved non Christian, no agenda man you.

According to the study, you'll be safer to be single or married

to an atheist, he said, then married to a man who is

indifferent. See, that's why I think Jeremiah

219 starts by saying consider and realize how evil and bitter

it is for you when you abandon the Lord.

You see, it's not just a case of, well, the jury's out, you

know, use it, don't use it. No, no, no.

You need to realize there is a dividing line.

Either you are in awe of God and his lifeblood is flowing through

you, or you are indifferent and you're poisoning your soul and

all those around you. Why would you bother getting

dressed on a Sunday, showering and coming all the way here in

the rain to leave indifferent. Paul says to you, what shall we

say in response to these things? And I mentioned when we're

looking at at work, I mentioned that essentially as Christians,

that worry is practical atheism. I take it from this life lesson

that I learned, but I want to build on that.

When you worry, you are more in awe of the situation that you're

facing than the power of God to rescue you.

I mean, if it's a financial situation you're more in awe of,

like I don't know how that's going to happen than the God who

can solve that financial problem with planets.

When you're feeling guilty, I'm not going to come to church, I'm

just going to watch online. When you're feeling guilty,

you're more in awe of the filth of your sin than the power to

forgive. When you're insecure, you're

more in awe of your lack then the God who's spoken of is one

who does exceedingly, abundantly above.

When you're dabbling with porn or self medicating, you're more

in awe and that tiny little dopamine hit than the God that

created every neural network that fires in your brain and the

God who's holy and the God who can set you free.

When you're carrying around shame, would God have me?

You're more in awe of the disappointment you are than the

delights that God has in you. Consider and realize how evil

and bitter it is for you when you abandoned the Lord your God

and have no awe of me. Where are those who rediscover

the awe of Romans Acts? You know what God can do with

one person. Paul was one of them.

Planted churches, changed the nation was used to write most of

the New Testament. One man filled with awe.

Augustine was another. Don't know if you know him.

It's one of the first names we learned at Bible college.

He's referred to as Saint Augustine, but before that, he

ain't no state in his own words. Debauched, depressed and a

disappointment. And then he was sitting with a

hangover in a park and there were kids screaming and singing

and round around the Rosies, but they were singing the song take

up and read, take up and read. And he just felt he needed to

take up and read the Bible. And what he did was he said he

opened the Bible and it fell to Romans chapter 8.

Romans 8 · chapter mention

What he found, they so blew him away.

He became the foremost theologian not only of his day,

but they say for the last few thousand years, next to Paul,

the foremost theologian, one man who is an awe of God, Martin

Luther's another one religious, strapped with shame, trying so

hard to make right with God out of effort that he would crawl to

their prayer, their prayer sessions, on his hands and knees

up the stairs, repenting on each state.

They say he was known to spend up to six hours in confession

every day. Yes.

But I didn't really thank God for the porridge this morning

because it was a little cold. And that's not knows.

It doesn't know how to make porridge away.

Oh, please forgive me. And then, OK.

But I also just kind of shoveled that into my mouth.

So forgive me for my gluttony. And, you know, I think I've used

a little bit too much sugar and said Johnny didn't get enough

sugar. I'm sorry.

I've like, I mean this guy just wrapped in guilt and shame and

hated the holiness of God until one verse in the book of Romans

took his breath away and out of that the Reformation.

John Wesley spoke about him earlier.

John Wesley didn't read Romans. He didn't even read a commentary

on Romans. John Wesley was a nominal

Christian. His words he was but he is

reading the intro to a commentary to Romans and God got

a hold of him and he's like can this be true and through John

Wesley got swept revival through Europe and tipped over into the

US. If you've ever heard of the

great awakenings, it came from that moment.

The intro to a commentary to Romans, Robert Moffett, same

thing, same chapter, same all. And he was so in awe of how God

was able to use Paul. He said, you know what, I want

to go where no one's gone before.

I don't want to just go resources in someone else's

field. And he came to Africa.

The reason why we have the gospel in Africa, partly thanks

to one verse in one chapter where one man is captivated by

all that God has done. And like I said right at the

very beginning, every revival in U.S. history has begun as a

result the study of the book of Romans, because Romans is the

Bible in a nutshell. It is all that God is, all that

He's done and all that He's done for and wants to do through you

in a nutshell. And when you get that, there's

nothing like it. There's nothing like it in

handling your sin. There's nothing like it and

handing yourself worth. There's nothing nothing like it

and and the struggles that you say you're facing and the

battles that you're going through.

The God says if I have to distill when talking to Israel,

if I have to distill, how does you got yourself here and how

you'll get yourself out of here. One word or do I still take your

breath away? He says 3 CR.

And so that's all I have to say this morning.

Where are the Moffets and the Luthers and the John Wesley's

and the Pauls and the Esters and the Priscillas and Aquilas and

the Ruths who rediscover the awe of God, not just rediscovered,

but are convinced, as Paul said, Because here's the crazy thing.

God has been saying this the same way all year long, just a

little different angle from the very first sermon preached this

year out of Psalm 46, Be still and know that I'm God.

You know that be still is actually a sound all the way

through Ecclesiastes and now Romans 8, He's been saying one

thing over and over and over again.

You want to know what will set you free, Tov, when you find Tov

and the God who loves you, who pursues you, who gave his Son

for you. But he says, what then shall we

say in response to this? The evidence demands A verdict.

What is that verdict in your life?

Is it the sheer gobsmacking awe of God or is it meh?

It's up to you, let's pray. Lord, I don't know what more to

do but to point us as a community to you because I know

my heart and I'm sure it's two 3000 times over.

I forget. I get so cynical, I give

credence to the ghosts of my past and I actually fail to

recognize this unbelievable, relentless pursuit of my

Heavenly Father for my heart. Lord, I acknowledge that I am

The Who and I want to repent this morning and on behalf of

those here whose hearts are stirred to reach out and lay

hold of this awe inspiring God. We repent, Father, we repent for

not being convinced, for listening to other voices or

allowing our hearts to be taken captive.

I just asked Lord Jesus that by your Holy Spirit you would come

captivate us again. Come, Holy Spirit, I know I

can't convince a soul through words, but just a moment of

gazing at your glory and we are forever changed.

And I just asked for that thought.

May we see you and would you take a hold of us?

Take a hold of our families, our finances, our future of the city

where we work. May we never be the same again.

Instead, may we live genuinely in all of you, in Jesus name.