Discussion with Small Group Leaders

At the moment, as a church, we're in a little bit of a

transition period because we just finished our last preaching

series. We were doing doing the stuff

and we're about to move into the new series and thought what a

great opportunity to be able to just pause and put a spotlight

on a specific thing in the church that actually makes our

church a family. And that's our small groups.

And so Phil and I, many of you will know and if you don't know,

we planted this church 7 years ago and there was me, Phil and

Elsie taking communion in our front lounge wondering who the

heck was going to join such a crazy church.

But it has grown and God has done incredible things, and

there are people who have come and they have gone, and at the

same time there are people who have come and stayed and new

people keep joining us all the time.

But there's a danger in the growing church that we can start

to feel like this big crowd of people rather than like this

nice family or this household. And it's quite easy to come in

to enjoy the coffee, enjoy the doughnuts, enjoy the worship,

and then just kind of run off for your Sunday lunch and not

really get to know people. So right from the very off, Phil

and I, we, we knew we were called to build a relationship

building church and not to be a collection of strangers, but to

be a family. And it is in the church world, a

bold word to use because it's been misused over a number of

years. But really today what we want to

talk about is moving like from the foyer into living rooms.

And to help us to do that, we have asked our small group

leaders to come and join us on the stage.

So if you guys wouldn't mind popping up and grabbing a

microphone. Yeah, you have been, of course.

Good, yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah, these are the people who open their homes week after week

after week, and they make sure that nobody walks the journey of

faith on their own. And so we really want to hear

from them today. So while these guys are taking

the seat, just just a kind of background overview.

When we look at the early church in the book of Acts, we see a

very clear rhythm because in Acts 246 to 47, it says every

day they continued to meet together in the temple courts.

They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and

sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favour of all the

people. You know, there was the temple

in Acts, there was this big gathering that and they also had

homes. And if you only have the big

gathering, you've got inspiration but very little

application because it's in the home where the one another's of

scripture actually happen. We look at Nehemiah and when

everything came together and the wall was rebuilt, they were

together one another and one another.

And to be honest, you can't bear one another's burdens while

looking at the back of someone's head in a row of chairs.

You know that happens across the coffee table.

So we are actually going to question our wonderful small

group leaders and they know a few of the questions.

We're going to throw a few slammers in there as well just

to keep it moving. They're really difficult ones

and so there's people in how I know that have got no idea who

any of you are. So let's start the far end.

Will you guys quickly just introduce yourselves and just

let us know whereabouts in town your small group is please?

I'm Andrew and this is my wife Jill, and we run the West End

Small Group, which is down on Grange Road in the southwest of

Darlington. I'm Pam, Trevor's at home in

bed, he's poorly full coats to pray for him.

So we run our Home group in Herworth Moor.

So that's opposite the Tawny Owl, if anybody knows where that

is. My name is Dylan, this is Jazz

and we run a small group out of South Park, Skurn Park,

whatever. I'm Tabby, this is Jordan, and

we run a small group in Horton. And so I don't know about you

guys who've all been in small groups before.

It can be a bit weird, can't it? Yeah.

I remember our first experience going to someone's living room.

You know, we were kind of asking the questions around faith, and

then somebody sat in front of us and went back to us on the piano

playing some worship, and anyone started singing.

And it was the most bizarre, weird, freaked me out.

Never went to go back. Experience we've ever had.

It sometimes doesn't change, but for you guys, what was your

first experience as a small group?

Doesn't have to be in the Vineyard, you know.

What were those feelings of first walking to a stranger's

lounge? So I actually got invited to a

small group before I got invited to church.

So I went into a small group before I went into a church and

it actually wasn't in someone's lounge.

It was in the upstairs of a Costa because it was a student

small group. And that was how it got sold to

me is like they will get you free Costa But it was the same

principle of the some I walked in and everyone else knew each

other and it was the start of September of a new year of

university. But I was the only new person.

And everyone was like doing the like, oh, we haven't seen each

other from the summer and and knew each other, but they were

like so in each other's lives. And then someone sat down with a

piano with their back to me. And I was like, I don't know any

of these songs. I don't know any of these

people. This is exactly the levels of

weird I thought these people were when they invited me.

Great. Yeah, still.

So the first, I was in the church and then eventually got

dragged into a small group, but I'm a pastor at the time in

South Africa. He sort of said let's meet up

for a coffee on Wednesday at his house.

He didn't say he was running a small group.

And so I walked in and it was 60 people.

It was not exactly very small. Luckily I'm extroverted, so it

was all right. Oh, my first experience was 53

years ago because I'm very old. So yeah, my first small group

was as a teenager. We used to do church, and then

our small group was on a Sunday night at 8:00.

And we would go back and eat and talk and sing.

And so by the time I'd had a Sunday morning service, a Sunday

evening service, and then we had another sermon at 8:00 at night.

So it was really good. But in terms of biblical

teaching, biblical integrity, and all of that kept from being

a really young age. And I can tell you now that I

still have friendships with people that were in that small

group when I was 15. So that's over 53 years ago.

We're still friends. So my first experience as a

small group was actually down in Eastbourne in Sussex, where we

used to live. And it was in a couple's home

that had young children. And the lady who was the wife of

the group used to cut off 9:30 every night.

She'd be like, right, I'm off to bed now because I've got school

work at the hospital tomorrow. But we'd, we'd have some really

intense discussions just about life and about what makes people

tick and looking at the Bible and just chewing the fat, as we

say. And it was really good because

they always made you feel really welcome and really homely.

And then when we moved back up here, we went to Pam and

Trevor's small group and I felt completely overwhelmed because

they started playing music and worshipping and I didn't quite

know what to do, where to put myself.

But you could feel the Holy Spirit in the room and it was

like having a big duvet wrapped around you.

So I think we can barely say that joining a small group for

the first time, it's a very strange experience, especially

if you're new to faith. And I think we would all sit

here and agree. And we know how difficult it is

to come for the first time. But with that in mind for you

guys, what does this look like from going from those first

groups to what you guys are doing now?

You're leading small groups in different contexts.

You all have different style. What does breaking bread, if you

like, look like in your small group?

You know, how how is this impacting your faith as small

group leaders with what you're seeing?

Can you give us a little bit? And now, let's start with jazz.

Right, OK. Well, it's a bit linear, isn't?

It no. So we, we kind of work really

late to be honest. And so we breaking bread for us

looks more like all of our small group members coming in for

7:00. But we just have snacks in front

and we have about half an hour of catching up and we always

make sure that we check on each other and then we kind of

discuss what was happened during the day and, and all of that.

And I think from the get go of joining small group, it's always

been a place of a place for for us to just be ourselves and to

just for us to come with other people to tell them what

actually what we've been going through.

And so we've seen quite a lot of people share with us what

they're going through and the fact that they've been so

encouraged to get prayed for. And that's that's the thing.

We, we always, always end with about half an hour of prayer and

making sure every single person is covered and that someone is

covering them in prayer as well afterwards.

That's been really impactful for for us and that for me as as as

someone who's been coming to church actually started at you

guys as so good. Phil Elisa's.

It's been the thing that we've always wanted is to always make

sure that whatever that you don't have to go through life

alone and that there's always something that we're if we have

anything to go through, whatever it is, we are celebrating with

you with joy and we will be with you in in the sorrows because

that's what Jesus said. And so that's what also my small

group leaders beforehand as well have, have, have embodied and

have shown us. And so that is never changed in

our small group. And also when we also have

little bits of times when we're a bit tired, don't really want

to lead, we could also feel that in the room and we just sit

there and chat. We sit there and just, you know

what? We, we've, we've got something

planned. But actually, you know what,

let's just sit and and for people to just kind of voice

what they're going through and because that's just the kind of

the the place that we want to really win it.

Awesome. Thanks, Jess.

Pam. Yeah.

So I suppose for Trevor and Icus, we're at the kind of stage

of life really where, you know, we've, we've done this in, in

all the stages of our marriage and our raising children and

grandchildren and so on. I think for us, community is

really, really important. And at whatever stage of life

you're in, it's important to be part of a community that grounds

you, that kind of helps you to feel safe and secure.

I suppose what we say is we do life with people.

So we eat together, we do break bread together in terms of

community and we worship together.

We pray for one another. We try and encourage people to

be real and open and honest about what is happening, for

them to take an interest in one another, to listen as much as

talk and all of those kind of basic things.

I think what probably the thing to say, and I was really

impacted by this this morning, is that in church, I've seen so

many people come through church. They don't connect into a small

group. They do get hurt, they do get

upset, they leave. Hopefully they'll go to a

different church. Sometimes they stop going to

church altogether. And the sadness of that is, is

not understanding that actually as human beings, when we do life

together, there is the vial and the precious, there's the salt

water and the sweet. And what we have to do is to

bear with one another and to develop one another and to be

kind to one another, to be gracious with one another, to

forgive one another because it's hard.

I mean, actually, you know, life in 21st century Western, you

know, Britain is, is not easy, but we're called to obedience to

the biblical principles that Jesus gave us.

And somehow we have to hold one another to account in love for

those things. And I think small group is the

best way for that to happen. Great.

Thank you. So our our, our small groups

brought earlier today new. So we haven't gone through the

whole cycle of events in the year and we've been studying the

emotionally healthy spirituality course.

So we haven't done any, any sort of bring and share meals or we

haven't done the BBQ or anything yet.

But we will be getting around to doing that sort of thing as the

group develops. But the most important thing in

our small group, I think is a proper brew to start with.

So if you come to, if you come to our group, you'll get a,

you'll get a mug of Yorkshire tea whether you like it or not.

And there'll be biscuits and there'll be cake.

And we, we just, we're just, you know, we, we don't, we get a.

Lot of that as well. We don't, we don't, we don't

sort of hide any of The Dirty pots or anything.

It literally is just as you know, as you'd find us.

So we're not, we're not out to, to make you, you know, make us

appear something that we're not. So that's, that's who we are.

I think Jill wants to say something.

Jill, feel free to add. No, I think he's summed up

really. We're still sort of very much in

the infant stages of being small group.

So developing more prayer time and and things like that.

We, we do need to develop that. But I think as a group, we've

got a lot of wise people in our small group and it's good.

I think we're going to learn a lot from each other.

Great. Jordan.

So for our group, no one's going to play the piano at you, so

don't worry about that. But Breaking Bad for us looks

like having a meal together all squashed around Tabby's dining

table, like 16 of us sometimes just having a good conversation,

having a good laugh together, getting to know each other more.

And then we go into some more in depth Bible study, really get to

know the word of God together, and we always end in prayer and

great fellowship and community. Awesome.

I do have to say that some of the funniest stories that we

hear do come out of your group. There's some of the games these

guys get up to. You know, if there was a line, I

think these guys push it. Anyway, shall we say that's a

nice segue. I think Andrew kind of summed it

up. The small groups.

There's this myth that it's always like 6 people in a

perfectly tidy room having a polite theological discussion.

But if we're being honest, you know, leadership is a sacrifice

and it's a sacrifice of time, It's a sacrifice of space, it's

a sacrifice of your sanctuary, your home.

And, and actually it's a sacrifice of your own comfort

actually. And real community is messy.

It involves struggles. It's got different personalities

and occasionally even the odd argument.

But I think also Pam summed that up really well that we bear with

one another and it's God that is refining us.

And we as we're looking to go from glory to glory to glory.

But it's also leading a group isn't about having all the

answers. Jill was saying, you know, we

learn from one another. It's not about having the

perfect house. It's actually being willing not

just to open your front door, but to open the whole of your

life. And this is a vulnerability that

all of us feel. We open up our our vulnerable

spaces so that people can actually come into that in an

authentic environment and actually belong.

And, you know, in this church, our small group leaders are not

expected to be the Bible teachers.

They're expected to be Kingdom facilitators.

And that is a very different thing.

That is where we become family. And we always say in a vineyard,

come as you are, but allow the Holy Spirit to change you.

And as we invest in relationships with one another,

this just kind of happens. And it's all it's a because

we're in a vulnerable space. The Holy Spirit gets that, you

know, gets our attention, that quiet whisper.

So some folks have been leading small groups longer than others.

And one of the questions that I wanted to put to you is can you

share a time when leading was actually quite difficult?

You know, maybe there was a struggle of friction and how did

you navigate that while actually just keeping the the small group

together and anyone will take it?

So for a while when I was travelling across the country

for work, it would mean I'd get home.

So I'd needed to go to office. I'd get home just before 7

before small group, maybe 2-3 minutes.

They would attend small group and everyone would know at half

nine I would say I'm shooting back and I would jump and drive

all the way back to Manchester or back to Hull.

That was, that was quite tense. We've, we've had some heated

discussions in our small groups and, and my experience in the

past and generally it's, it's God that's really interesting

and, and sort of passed the conversation around.

But I remember there was one particular theological debate

and it was getting really heated.

And I kept jazz and I kept trying to pull it aside and I

kept going and I kept going and I looked at jazz and I ate a

ginger biscuit, one of my favourite biscuits.

And then I pretended to choke and I and I coughed, you know?

And everyone stopped and looked at me.

Oh, are you OK? Do you want some water?

I said, oh, I need some water. And by the time I was dealt

with, the conversation was over and we moved across.

And. It was great it worked.

We're just, we're just, we're just making some notes to pop

in. So if you go to a small group

and there are ginger biscuits on the table, you know what they

have to do. Any kind of biscuits.

A great thing. Great.

Thanks, Joe Tabby. I think kind of similar to what

Dylan was starting with there about the kind of timing

sometimes. So I quite often end up with my

clinical time at work being a clinic on Wednesday afternoon,

which is really inconvenient, but it's if it, if it overruns

or there's like a challenging patient right at the end.

And then obviously with Jordan, I not living at the same place.

So then we're both trying to convene.

She can't get in to start setting up a small group until I

get there. And actually, if I'm running

late from work, we've had times where we've got in at what, like

20 to 6 and we're doing a full meal for people And we've been

like, what can we make in 20 minutes?

Like how fast can we cook a meal actually?

And, and our small group can attest at the time that

sometimes everyone pitches up at six and we're like,

realistically, dinner's going to be 6:45, not 6, because it's,

it's just not happened this week.

And the stress of that can sometimes create a little bit of

friction and a little bit of stress.

I think the other thing for poor Jordan is that she's got very

used to where all my cleaning supplies are in my house and,

and where everything is, everyone turns up even for,

like, social events. And it's like, Jordan, where's

Tabby's whatever. And Jordan's, like, I'll go and

get it. And she's got very used to,

yeah, how my house works as well as her own.

Awesome. Chill.

I don't know that we've had any like major things.

It's because you've got all the wise people.

Right. I think probably, I think

probably I flap more about getting home because Wednesday

night is my night where I'm getting home from work at the

latest and we've got to have dinner and the dog's got to be

walked and then people start arriving at 7:00.

And sometimes if I've had a migraine that day or something,

then it's. Difficult to think, right?

I've just got to keep going just for the next few hours.

But when people turn up and you start chatting and stuff it all

kind that all kind of like melts away.

So yeah. I think we've not had any kind

of messy situations yet. I don't want to pre empt it, but

I think one of the things that I have learned as I've got older

is that you've got 2 ears and one mouth, right?

So if anything like that does occur, I think the best thing to

do is to listen first, think 2nd and talk 3rd.

And hopefully by the time you've done all of that, then you'll

have assessed the situation properly and you know, you've

also got time to say a quick prayer and and ask for God's

help in resolving it. I think there's something really

important about the rhythms of church life and I think being in

a Home group that is a rhythm that we we do life together.

We occasionally come in here on a Wednesday.

But whatever is happening in life, So whether that's, you

know, whether you're poorly because we've been through the

whole cycle of, you know, weddings, births, deaths,

sickness, all those different things happening, mental health

challenges, you know, financial challenges, you name it as a

family over the last, you know, 5 decades.

But in terms of leading a Home group, I think the important

thing is just being very real and actually saying this, This

Is Us, this is what is happening.

And actually it's not. Trevor and I do serve our Home

group. We do and that there's no doubt

about that. But also our Home group love us.

So it's a reciprocal relationship because we're

brothers and sisters in Christ. So the important thing is to not

feel like it's it's only you that's doing it because actually

in in the mess of life, then we share that and do that together.

It's important that you find the people.

I mean, I'll say to Phil and Lisa, not everybody is a lefty

as some people are right elbows. You need to find the people that

that you can connect to who doing life together is

meaningful. And if you're not in the right

Home group, move to a different 1, you know, but find people who

you can feel real and feel vulnerable with and who you know

you can trust. And that's not easy.

And people will hurt and disappoint over time.

They will. But I, I think that for us, the

challenge has been just about that is about being real and

doing life and expressing that to people who we know God has

asked us to do this. We so it's an obedience thing

really rather than a sacrifice thing, I guess, but believing

that the people that you're doing life with that actually

that God is in that. Just adding on to what Dil was

saying earlier about him being away and it's often quite like

quite close to it starting small group and I'm just there by

myself. And I think there have been a

couple of times where so just prior to this just a little a

little talk, not other people do know actually I'm quite

introverted. I don't really I need to be in

the mood for for people. I need to make sure I've got

that in my head that there are people coming that I need to be

OK with that and that and and I am OK with that more than more

than fine. But Dylan is more that person in

in that all the time. But it's it's the kind of we've

had friction. We've had diamonds where I just

said I have nothing in I, I, I've so much has happened in at

work. The guys, I'm feeling really

vulnerable today. I don't know what to say.

I don't know what's going on and deal with sometimes then lead

there and then kind of lead in discussions on that point.

We've alternate in that sort of sense as well.

But then also with, I think there's something as Pam was

saying about knowing what it's like and that your small group

knows what it's like for you to be to be vulnerable and open is

very, very important because then they know they can start

feeling the same way for for such.

As What makes the sacrifice worthwhile?

What is the sacrifice worthwhile, do you know?

I think it's seeing people come together, praying for each other

without us kind of prompting, without us saying anything.

And it's, it's them sort of meeting up outside a small group

and saying, Hey, I want to have a cup of coffee with you.

It felt like this, like when you were saying this in small group,

I felt something in the spirit and I just wanted to kind of be

with you on that and just really continuing to do life outside

really, which has been something that has happened to me quite a

lot. So that has been, it's, I guess

it's not really a sacrifice A lot of times.

Sometimes it is because it really is a joy and it really is

a, it really is great to have people over.

But I think knowing the fact that people do then get to do

this outside of our allocated time and a Wednesday evening is

really important, yeah. Great.

Thank you, Tim. I.

Just want to add something about kind of bouncing off of what

both Pam and Jazz have said there.

The one of the times where we'd both had, we'd both had a, not

just a late finish, but a really rough day at work.

And we'd literally got back at what, like 35 past five.

And we were like, and we were both a bit frazzled and a couple

of people pitched up early and we were both a bit like, and

then 10 minutes later there was a production line going on in my

kitchen because we were just really authentic.

And we were just like, listen, we got home 3 minutes before you

just got here. And I actually just, I don't

have anything ready. There's nothing cooked.

The house isn't cleaned. And then you've got someone

chopping chicken and someone chopping onions and like, and

someone making the drinks. And everyone was just like,

yeah, OK. And like, and just got on with

and, and it kind of didn't feel like we were hosting small

group. It felt like the small group was

hosting small group. And everyone just pitched in.

And, and it's those moments, I think with the sacrifices where

you go actually, like we've built a community here where

everyone's just like, yeah. And like, we're all family.

We've come for a family meal. If I can put the plates out,

let's get the plates sorted. And I think we've experienced

that as well at the end of the small group when you're kind of

like, Oh my gosh, like the kitchen's like this with dishes

and things like that. And I'd be thinking I'd be

talking to somebody and then I'd walk in the kitchen.

And usually it was Tabby who was actually having a quiet moment,

to be honest. Like we treat him from the

conversation. But the dishwasher was loaded

and everything was being washed up.

And it was kind of like me being me, if she said, could I do that

for you? I said, no, no, you leave that,

you know, I'm hosting you. But I think as we learn to allow

people to help and assist and all of that sort of thing, it

just brings such a an incredible richness to to the group.

We used to be part of a small group up in Newcastle and one of

the leaders was a GP. I don't what time we started.

It wasn't as early as ours here as that half seven or something.

And he'd roll back through the door. 8:00 mid small group and

he's when the leaders, he'd go up and get a shower.

He'd come down and he just like absolutely wiped out and

knackered slump in the chair in the lounge, wouldn't he?

Somebody would put his food in front of him for him and then

he'd slowly come back to life again.

And then eventually everybody gets diminished time.

We would leave at 11:00, won't we?

Yeah, there were long days, but there were, there was, there was

good. Fun.

I'm gonna put the cat cat amongst the pigeons with this

question. Feel free to pass it if you want

to and we'll move on. But tell us one thing that

people who come to small groups do that's really irritating.

I got. I got a list.

I got a list. Now, now be, now, be cautious

because because this, this, this is kind of a picture.

It's really good. Look at the South African.

Go and deal. It's it's when you put all the

drinks out nicely and you stack all the coasters and you come

back and everyone's got a glass and not a single coaster has

been moved. Similarly, when we're serving

food and we're all sat around the table and we passed on the

plate and it just comes right back to the start.

Everyone just passes it around and they do it because they know

it winds us up. So my little pit peeve is so

because there's a lot of people in our small group, Jays are now

on like the other side of the room and we put the snacks on

the one side and you'll see them helping themselves.

But it never comes around people.

People get up in the middle and like help themselves, but no one

ever passes it around. And Jazz says, I want crisps.

So And then the other one that we have is when when people have

like they brought food, they were late.

Maybe they've gone for takeaways, which is fine.

You can. And then they'll get up and

they'll leave the takeaway bag on the floor and then leave the

house. And I'm like Jazz, we're going

to have to show people where the bin is.

Take the whole small group in the kitchen.

This is the bin. And you?

And your Pam in there. Pam, after over 50 years of

small group leading, you know you've so mellowed.

I have to say, in terms of our current small group, I can't

identify with any of these things you guys are saying.

All are also well behaved. They're so helpful.

And yeah, we don't have any of those problems.

Trevor usually bakes a cake. People are always bringing

things. Nicholas is a French pastry

chef. Oh my goodness, So this?

Is not a pitch for small groups, yet I'm.

Sorry. Well, if it was, you're in the

wrong one if you're not in ours. But no, I, I, no, I can't think

of anything right now. I mean, in previous ones that

I've been in, yeah, people hugging, hugging the floor and

not giving other people an opportunity to talk and all that

sort of thing. But I we've never resorted to

the ginger biscuit. Maybe that's why Jazz puts the

snacks at the other end now, so we can't choke on them.

You guys. We got our toilet door lock

fixed downstairs. Somebody who shall remain

nameless was like, I can't get out of the toilet.

David, David and Suzanne will attest to this.

When you go through home church planting training and say one of

the core things we start church in your home, whether that's

small group or church plant, is make sure that you've got a lock

and a toilet because if you don't, people don't come back to

your house. We planted a church.

We never had a lock. Didn't we ever, for five years.

I still don't. I still don't.

Actually, if you go to Tabby's small group, the cat opens the

door, so just watch out for that one.

Can I have my invitation? Oh no, it's.

The vapours and the smokers who go at the back and then walk the

mud back through the house when they've had a vape in a fag.

Anyway, so you know, our small groups are places where, you

know, they see what we're doing day-to-day.

We don't figure out how we do life with each other by reading

a welcome leaflet, do we? We actually come alongside each

other, rub each other up the wrong way, walk mud into your

house. Maybe not that you'd notice this

on our carpet. It's a bit old, but we talk

about values that are caught and not taught.

And so doing life together like this at close quarters and

seeing who we are, who we real people, authentic people, this

is how we actually imbibe the values and the vision of the

church as well. But actually, crucially, small

groups are actually part of our pastoral care system in that

they're all of the church that we're called to look after each

other, You know, and Phil and I can't be at every visit and

things like that. You actually wouldn't want us

there because as Pam says, you know, we're a right elbow and

she's a left ear and all of that sort of thing.

So, you know, we are gifted in particular ways in ministry.

So when you're in a small group, you're not waiting for like a

professional to come and care for you.

You're surrounded by brothers and sisters who are already

there. And you know, it's this group

member that I can attest to this.

We, we haven't run a small group in probably about a year now.

Phil and I were going through some really, really tough stuff

and somehow it got wind across the church.

And generally, you know, when you, when you're leading the

church, it's a very, very lonely place.

And you're kind of like doing top down and not up.

And, and the camera starts pinging on the door.

And when we open the door, there's a, a Sainsbury's bag

there with a box of chocolates and a bottle of wine.

And we're like, oh, that's really cute.

Those people who creep up, we actually know who you are, but

they're trying to do it secretly.

And then about half an hour later, same thing happens.

It's another bag on the doorstep.

And for us, that just really, really touched us because it was

kind of like, we're not invading your space, but we see it and we

care. And like, depositing wine on the

doorstep is always a winner for me.

So there you go. So how have you guys?

How do you see? So we talk about it all as some

of the few have been pastoral care of the church.

You know, we are the all. We come alongside each other.

Sometimes we need the sum, sometimes we need a little bit

more dedicated pastoral support and then the few, you know,

sometimes we need to direct people out the church for some

real specialist help. Sometimes we marriage

counselling within certain areas of church.

So we talk about pastoral care or some few.

But for you guys, how have you seen this all happening across

your groups? What does this look like when it

might be a bit hard for you guys?

You know you've been going for three months, but you know, how

do you see this working of the all across your groups?

And sometimes not even if you know for you to not be the

catalyst behind it as well. Go on to have you can start.

I think for me, it's always in the little things, like there's

the big moments and people get behind each other, but it's

actually in the little things of like never once having to worry

about whether everyone who doesn't drive in the group is

definitely getting a lift to and from small group and couldn't be

less involved in that. But I know that they all are

knowing that people like hearing from people that they've like

Jazz was saying earlier spent time with each other outside a

small group that something's come up in prayer.

And then it's like, actually, I, I thought that that sounded

quite deep. And I'm, I'm quite close to that

person. So actually I've taken them out

for food, whatever, for a coffee, for a drink.

And, and again, it's those little things of like you were

saying about, about the doorstep, like I had a really

tough couple of weeks a few months ago at work and then came

home one day and there was like chocolates that had been posted

through my door from someone in the small group.

And, and like, it's all those like little things.

But I know that lots of these people are, they're all doing it

for each other. Like, not just for me or for

Jordan, like everyone is just collectively looking after each

other in the little moments. Great Geo Andrew.

I think we've kind of we're good at just popping a little what's

up in our group, saying praying for you because we know that

somebody's got an appointment or got something that needs, you

know, me to prayer or just encouraging or saying, oh, you

know, to people have a nice holiday, have a good break.

We'll see you when you get back. Just little things like that.

I think that's where we're starting from as we're getting

to know each other more deeply. Announced.

Yeah, we, I mean, we do do all of that.

Our our WhatsApp group is very active.

If people have got stuff going on, they they do put stuff in

there or people will contact Trevor and I ask us to pray

about things, tell us stuff that's going on.

I think being able to be honest and vulnerable with one another

and to put that out there because Trevor and I when you

get a church and there's the size that that our church is now

for the Lisa even to know everybody's name is difficult

for Trevor and I to know everybody's name is difficult.

So I think that's when when small group is really at its

best is because you are intentionally choosing.

It's not about being in a clique.

It's just about it's just about I know that I can't know what's

going on in in everybody's life and I can't pray for everybody's

everything. There's not enough hours in the

day, but I can intentionally be invested into the lives of

people that God has connected us with.

And I would say that the all the summon the few is that not all

Home group leaders are pastoral by nature, Although I think

pretty much this bunch of here are, but I but I think it's

about the whole church knowing that that is the model the

church works on. So if you're not in one, it's

very difficult then in terms of having your pastoral needs met,

because unless you specifically go to Phil and Lisa or come to

somebody and say, I need this or want that or this is hard,

people are not going to know. And then it it's then easy for

people to feel that they're not valued, that they're not

understood, that people aren't listening or all of those

things. But the process of Home group,

if you like, is that that that's really where that is meant to be

lived out. And I think that's the thing

that I've learned in 50 odd years is that how we live out

our faith is in those connections with with one

another. And, and I can't pray for

everybody and I don't expect everybody to pray for me, but I

know that there are a dozen or more people that anything that

is happening in my life, if I send a message, I know that they

will pray for me. So for those folks that don't

know, the Vineyard movement is a multiplication movement and we

are the sort of church that should this church get to a

certain size, rather than go to two services, we want to plant

another one. So we're not about numbers,

we're about multiplication. That's something that's very,

very different. And we don't want to end up in a

holy huddle. We don't want to end up in a

clique. We want to have space for

everybody to be able to find somewhere.

And I think if we truly believe the gospel is good news, you've

got to be willing to grow and to multiply into new groups so that

they, all of the pastoral care can reach more people in our

community. We've heard a lot of stories.

We've a lot of heard about how everything happens in the small

groups here. And some of the small groups are

actually straining the seams. They're, you know, not enough

time around the dinner table. The cost of multiplication is

going to be hard because as Pam's put so eloquently, we are

in each other's lives. And then to actually part

company and go as a little fraction off to somewhere else.

I know. But look what you've birthed,

you know, it means saying goodbye to people that you've

grown close to, doesn't it? So you can start something new.

But actually what we, what we need to be looking at, it's a

Kingdom mentality. It's Kingdom of God

facilitation. And actually as we send people

out into new small groups, it's a joy actually.

So just one more question. We've used a model before where

we would start a small group, we would have a healthy small

group, and then we would pass the whole small group to the

other person and bless them and they do a really good job and

mop up the pieces. But for those people who've

actually encouraged people to go to another small group that's

just started out, if any of you've got any kind of stories

or anecdotes behind that and what it feels like and what it

looks like, we'd like to hear it.

Microphones. Nice.

Just relax, don't think you've got to do everything to a

schedule because I think that's what I was like the first two

times I did it. And obviously we've not done it

for very long, but I was like right written out, actually just

stop and you've got to let the Holy Spirit do it's thing, do

their thing and get to know people and just chill out.

So that's what I've learnt. I've just chill out.

Jazz still. Dylan cries when people leave

the small. Group I do, I do.

I think like Pam said, becomes a family.

And I know like for jazz and I, we don't really have any family

around in England, so church is our family anyway.

But you know, you argue with uncles and you argue with aunts

all the time in a family. But that small group is so

precious to us. But we've, I think for for jazz

and I personally, we love the people in our small groups.

We've created such friendships that if they were saying, oh, if

we saw that they were going to lead another small group, we

would just pass our entire small group over.

We don't mind starting from fresh, but we know that we will

see them still during the week because we've got such great

friendships with each other. And I think when you know that,

when you know, I don't need to speak to the person on Sunday

because I can just invite them over on a Friday, it allows you

to release things a little bit easier.

But maybe not yet. My, my heart's still healing.

It's fine. But but realistically, knowing

that you can see them sort of whenever you want, it makes

releasing it much easier. Absolutely.

I think sorry, really sorry. I think for us as well, what we

are definitely the kind of people always want to see more

of what God's doing in the end people's lives.

And we're always on the lookout for the next and, you know,

next. We like.

Strangers, we do like strangers we do.

And we've, we've kind of had a vision in the beginning of, of

starting our small group, but we kind of thought what, what,

what, what is it actually? What is it like for us as

international people who are not from Darlington?

And we've kind of had this vision that we're going to have.

I think we're going to, I think it'll be good to, to bring in

people who also are from different countries who don't

have their families nearby. And so we've got 2 lovely

Nigerian families right now who can come or who do come when

they, when they do, when do have the time and when they when they

can do with their kids and families as well.

And then we've got like literally a whole different

people. But that's the kind of sort of

mindset that we've always had is that we how many more people

outside of the British culture can we invite so that we've got

they know that they also feel like they've got family just

like we've been given families through small groups.

I. Mean we say that half, half the

small group is from England. I think it's just, it's just

this idea that we wanted a culturally diverse small group

and dealing with the cultural clashes is can be difficult, but

it is fun. But you know, it can be the

weirdest and wonderful things, things you never thought you

would have a clash with seems to clash.

But just living life and going, OK, this is a cultural thing.

This is not a personal thing. Let's work on and let's find

out. Oh, why do they believe that?

Or why do I believe that? And it does bring you the best

bring you shared meals. Yeah, yeah.

So if you. Say spicy.

If you're in Dylan Jazz's group and you are British, I do

believe prophetically that the Lord is calling you on to plant

a small group. So there's two things in me at

least we really want to say this morning.

You know, as you listen to these stories.

No, Perhaps, you know, you're feeling stir in your heart.

You know, we're looking for new small group leaders that don't

have to have come out of a small group, but you know, maybe they

are. You know, we're not looking, as

you've noticed, for perfect people.

Absolutely too much. Too much.

You can say that again actually. It's OK, they all know already.

They all know us. You know, we're looking for

people that who want to help build this House of God, you

know, so today, you know, we're putting a call out for anyone

interested in exploring leadership in a small group

setting. You know, we also want to speak

to people who aren't in small groups.

You know, you've heard some of the amazing things that go on in

small groups. You know, we've got 1000

stories. We've got a million more

questions we just don't have time for, which will get a

little bit more out of these guys as well, you know, But you

know, you hear the importance of being in small group around

pastoral care, around fellowship, you know, around

eating some great food. And you know, it's not about the

whichever time it is. And, you know, we don't have a

strict model. Small group is Wednesday at 7:00

PM. You know, we need a diverse

range of small groups at different times, different days,

daytime ones for certain people to come to that.

So, you know, we need people to think outside the box of what

could a small group look like for me if I was going to leave

it. So what we're going to be doing

is at the end of this talk and when you're all getting coffee,

all the small group leaders are going to be standing at the back

of church. So if you want to grill them

with any question that you want to that we haven't been able to

get through here, feel free to do that.

At the same time, Phil and I will be standing there as well.

And we are looking at round about October, November, we will

be starting a four week small group.

Phil and I, for anybody who wants to start a small group,

wants to ask questions. We'll talk about the vision and

the values of the church. We'll spend 4 weeks together.

You can be attending your usual small groups or we'll do it on

another evening. And it'll just be basically like

a lovely little pod of people that we can actually mix

together. We're all starting out on this

journey together, can support one another.

And after four weeks, we'll pop you out into the church and

you'll have a small group. And so if you feel disqualified,

we all do. If you feel like you can't do

it, we all feel like if you have a row with your spouse every

single time you're about to go out to small group, the row is

going to be worse. When you're leading a small

group and you know all of the above and all of the little

niggles and choking on biscuits and things like that, It's all

par for the course because we are authentic and we are

actually just people and none of us are out of the realms of

getting upset and, and, and having to take things on the

chin and such like. So if you feel like you're

called to become a small group leader or even if you're not,

the four weeks you won't be held to account to actually start a

small group. Just come and and we won't have

any biscuits. We'll make you some food and

then you can just talk about what it means.

Awesome. Well, we're going to have a soft

close to service today. We're not going to go into

ministry, but I wonder, is there a willing small group leader who

would close us in prayer? Fat list?

Any last comments from you guys before?

Can I just, yeah, please do. I mean, I know we've been making

jokes about bits and pieces, but leading a small group is, has

been one of the greatest privileges of, of jazz in our

lives. There's something so incredible

when you lead a small group and, and what the Holy Spirit does in

your life and how it changes it. So if, if you're thinking about,

or maybe God's calling me to run a small group, do please step in

towards that and into that. You know, it's so wonderful and,

and all of the bits and pieces that go wrong.

It's all worth it. When you see people say, Oh,

I've been praying for someone for the first time or they

stepping out in faith or you know, it's it just everything

becomes worth it. But we all agree, we all agree

that it's never the right time. We never feel qualified.

We're always rushing to get ready, There's always shoes to

trip over and pots that aren't in the right place.

And we always have amazing evenings, even though we

probably all argue with our spouse or or friend before we

open the door. Is that fair?

I think that's very fair, Pam. You look like you're busting

with a font of knowledge down there.

Well, the font of knowledge you're.

Best be wise. I suppose it is just this sense

really that that we are all living stones and we are all

meant to be built together. If you're not being built

together, if you're not kind of doing the whole intentionally

connecting. But what it does is we were

talking just the other day about the horning stone thing.

You know, in Lopidary they shove everything into this tumble

thing. Now you can tumble and it's

painful and there's snot and there's tears and there's all

sorts of things. And doing life together isn't

easy. We will annoy one another

because we're not all the same. But actually, Jesus is wanting

us to be more like him. And the way that we get refined

to be more like him is to do life together.

When you take yourself out of the Tumblr, which sadly in 50

odd years I've seen a lot of people do because it is painful,

it is hard, you do get chipped and hurt.

And I think anybody in church that tells you that isn't the

case is lying to you because just as in life, you know, doing

life with people, it's hurtful. But if our goal is to be more

like Jesus, then we have to intentionally keep putting

ourselves back in to the Tumblr. And I, that's what I would say

really, is that whether it's this church, whether you go to

another church, whether you whatever, however you do it, if

you love Jesus and you want to be more like him, then you have

to make the hard choices to do the things that help us to be

more like his image. I guess that's what I would say.

Will you pray for us? Yeah, not me.

At least today all. Of us, Father, we thank you that

church is your idea. Lord Jesus, we thank you that

this is your bride for whom you died.

Jesus, we thank you that one day you will present us faultless,

clothed in your righteousness, beautiful in the presence of

God, and that we will all be there together.

And I cannot say about my brother and sister in Christ

that I don't have time for them or that they're not like me,

because I know I will share eternity with all of these

lovely people who love you. And even the ones I don't really

get on well with, Lord, they'll also be there.

So Father, I pray that you would help us.

Help us, Lord, to keep on forgiving, to keep on loving, to

keep on getting back into that relationship, that way of living

as church that is authentic, that is real, that allows you to

do what you are doing in us as individuals and in us as Your

body. Father, forgive us when we don't

do that, when we judge one another harshly, when we're not

kind. Help us all to see in each other

your image, because you made us all in your image and you are

refining us to be like You. Lord Jesus, let that be the cry

of our heart. In your name, Amen.

Amen.