Real Talk Friday - Carl John Fechner

Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts Rohan Das and Gus Urban.

In this groundbreaking podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives of individuals whose

journey has been profoundly transformed by their faith.

From the trial of adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore real stories, real

people whose encounter with God has reshaped their existence.

Join us as we embark on a candid and enlightening journey where authenticity meets spirituality

every Friday on Real Talk Friday, part of Logan City Christian Church.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Real Talk Friday.

We are so glad you could join us.

We are so happy we've got another special guest and another special guest who doesn't

go to a church.

Who's the special guest, Gus?

G'day guys, welcome.

We've got a friend of a friend.

We've just met him this morning.

Reading through what he's done in his life is a great accomplishment and to really understand

what God has done in this life is incredible.

And so you're going to be blessed by this.

I just want to welcome Carl Fechner to the table today.

So Carl, thank you for being on this show.

We see here that you are a founder of many things.

There's been a lot of things you've started and run and God has blessed throughout your

years.

Growing deep and strong as a discipleship program that we're going to get into later

in the segment.

But currently you've got a business strategy consultants that you've started up this year.

It's rebadged of a business that I just sold.

Ah, there you go.

Very good.

For everyone, this guy is a Christian businessman but more than that, now where God's leading

him would be along the lines of discipleship and so much of a kingdom mindset in your life.

Oh absolutely.

And you know the business acriments overlaying the Christian discipleship.

Yeah, that's incredible.

Taking those skills into it.

That's beautiful.

So I just want to say this one thing, when I was reading your bio, the one thing that

stood out to me was passion.

You're a passionate man.

And I've got a son that plays soccer at a very competitive level and his coach says,

if you can have that passion, everything else follows.

And there's a quote that I saw here that says, one person with passion is greater than 99

who have an interest.

Oh wow, that's good.

Yeah, I remember hearing that a long time ago and when you said that on your bio, I

thought, well there you go, there's the special ingredient in a person that can do great things.

So that's a very long intro.

Thank you for being on the show, Rohan, I'm going to hand it over to you.

Oh yeah, well I feel that's a shot intro for this person sitting right here.

Well it is, yeah.

But apart from passion, what I saw is you have a pioneering spirit, which is so good.

I was reading your bio too and we were thoroughly impressed.

And I just wanted to know about your childhood and one of the things you said was, your father

always told you to follow the 10 commandments, but you did not know what the 10 commandments

is.

So let's start from there.

Let's start from your childhood.

We want to know your upbringing and everything.

Just feed our audience with the blessed life you had.

Yeah, well it wasn't too blessed in that early stages.

And that's a story within itself, but it caused a four year old to be a very broken child.

And it wasn't the fault of my parents, it was the fault of, and I know this is public,

of an auntie.

So long story cut, short for it to make sense.

And we're all pioneers.

My family, when I think back, you talked about me being a pioneer, that was our natural.

When I look at the fact and the history, it's pioneers all the way through.

I just realised that as you said that.

And so my dad and his brother inherited the family farm at a place called Trafalgar South

down in Victoria.

And they end up getting married and we shared the house with my uncle and aunt.

And I was the oldest boy.

So by default being the oldest boy, I was the normal heir to the farm.

And I've got to condense the story, but my auntie, out of her brokenness, she saw me

as a threat.

And so she would rip toys out of my hands, grab me by the ears, just terrible stuff.

So out of that, the house got divided in half and we lived in one half and they lived in

the other.

So I think that speaks volumes to an audience that would understand it.

And then also this little boy was a happy little kid when he was born, but the age of

four, when the brokenness, and this is another story I could go off on.

I made a pact with the devil that these big people were never going to hurt me again.

So I carried that through my life, big people hurt you.

So that just was really, that never was resolved until many years after I became a Christian.

I was 42 before I became a Christian.

And so that really laid a very broken foundation.

Was it my mum and dad's doing?

No.

And the best way to describe that to Ina, my father, he died at an early age of 62,

which your age is not, my age it is.

And the whole town stopped in recognition of him.

So it wasn't as now as something that bad that my dad did.

It was what's happened.

And we had to go, leave that farm and go to another property, which was a really run down

property and we had to develop and the whole other thing.

But this little boy took it upon himself that it was his fault.

You can't process information.

So I really was a very broken person and out of that caused the drivenness that happened

in my life.

So that drivenness, a lot of positives could have come out of it and would have come out

of it.

They did later, but not then.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

So there were a lot of negative effects.

I was an angry ant, so broken, so disassociated in my person, the whole lot.

Someone to get so hurt that they, and there's a whole story in that stuff, but I did, I

made it pack with the devil.

Those big people are never going to hurt me again.

And that's just amazing.

And Jesus has bought healing out of that, but I didn't know him.

He wasn't in my life then or anything, but just I couldn't process what was happening

in my world.

So when you look at the rest of my life to what, to that earliest stage, I was a fighter.

Yeah, wow.

Wow, wow.

And I guess carrying this through to, if we were to go into your business side now, having

this extremely rough start to your life and at the age of four, so innocent, so young

and just, yeah, that's incredible.

Do you feel that the hand of God was on you at a very young age to be able to, like a

lot of people who are abused in these ways end up not doing anything?

I probably didn't then, but I saw the, I've seen the hand of God many times in my twenties.

I rode a car off when I was about 19.

How I survived that, I walked away from it with just a cut in here.

I shouldn't have walked away.

Oh, wow.

And so there's a few other scenes like that.

So his hand was on me, but I didn't recognise that I know that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, wow.

And so growing up in a small country town?

Yeah, it was a population of about 1500 people.

1500 people.

And that town stopped the day that your father passed in honouring a good man.

Yeah.

So...

He's one of the most respected farmers in the district.

And all my mates all loved him.

I, for me personally, which, you know, this has been very transparent, but I hated him,

but I didn't understand why I hated him.

But it was out of the brokenness that was coming out of that because I was blaming him.

As that little boy, you don't have a frame of reference.

So I was blaming him.

But when he died, I was already living in Sydney by then.

And when he died and I went to the funeral, I couldn't...

I was inconsolable.

I cried so much.

Yeah.

But since I become a follower of Jesus, a lot of healing and revelations, he died before

I become a Christian, but I've just been getting revelations by God of who he was and what

he was.

And a lot of that's only just happened in the last couple of months as well.

Oh, wow.

That's incredible.

So I now know I love my dad.

I just wish I could rewind history, but you can't.

You learn from it.

Well, with that, you know, sometimes I've seen a lot of people that, you know, coming

to... when they give their life to Christ, but when they have this dysfunctional relationship

with the Father, there's always that problem of coming to Christ because you don't have

the greatest example.

So was that a problem for you?

Do you know, I was saved to tie that into your question.

I was saved on the 23rd of May, 1990, but it's only in the last two months that I've

identified and had a true relationship with my heavenly Father.

And that's amazing.

I discovered that in the last two months.

And that's one of the reasons why I'm here in Brisbane, is that I discovered that I had

what's termed...

Well, I discovered as a term as an orphan spirit.

Yeah, wow.

And I didn't understand that.

And I had emotional healing.

And then in the next two days, had a massive deliverance on the demon that was behind it.

And it came out of a book of John Alley's called Spirit of Sonship.

And you've got to catch the term spirit of sonship, understanding that, having a father.

Because my dad was a great guy, but that... he came out of World War II and that, and

the German background as well, as heritage, you don't...

I don't even remember him telling me he loved me.

I knew he loved me.

Never felt his hands on me.

So to... I didn't have a problem relating to Jesus, but I had a problem relating to

my heavenly father.

Yeah, wow.

Right?

And so the Holy Spirit got hold of me and said, read the book of John Alley's.

I'm 75.

It was given to me on my 70th birthday.

And I just got it and I closed it and put it away.

I wouldn't read it.

And I was up here in Brisbane in September of last year running a conference or having

a display at a conference.

And I was given the book again.

Oh, wow.

And in the last couple of months, the Holy Spirit spoke through my wife and said, you

need to read this book.

So I read the book on the spirit of sonship.

It took me about a week to read it.

And I could feel it inside really railing against and I knew that this was some demonic

bondage still in my life.

And then we had a one night of a... what we call it Kingdom Age, but it's just a group

of people all praying and talking together.

And I went through a healing.

And then the two days later, I had a deliverance of the spirit.

So it was two parts, the emotional healing of the orphan spirit and then the demonic,

which was a haughty spirit behind it.

And my total thinking has changed.

And I don't know if you heard me pray before we started, but my heavenly father all of

a sudden means something to me.

And I'm actually up here in Brisbane to talk to someone who I want to be and become my

spiritual father.

Oh, wow.

So I can learn about sonship because I never understood it.

Isn't that incredible?

We had a... actually the very first person we interviewed, Mike Corry, he did prison

ministry and he was saying, Mother's Day, all the Mother's Day cards are sold.

You can't find one on the shelf.

Father's Day, they barely sell any.

And it's just a... well, one, it's a shame because fathers are just so important to the

upbringing of a child.

Of the family unit.

Oh, a family unit, yeah.

And we see that... well, really, we see how with same-sex marriages and relationships,

raising children really undoes what many people have worked towards, having a good father

and a good mother and being raised in a good home just based off that.

If you destroy the family unit, you destroy society.

Exactly right.

And that's what the devil's been very good at.

Exactly right.

And it's like we see with your father coming from World War II, the mental damage or the

inability that I've heard from many men that have come back just not being able to operate

as a father the way that they used to before they left.

And it's just such a shame.

And yeah, there's just so much damage that just goes on from there from generation to

generation.

But to hear of how one, relationships that we have with our fathers in the natural can

hinder or progress the one with our heavenly father, it's just incredible.

Absolutely.

Because it does affect that relationship.

Like 1990, what's the day, the 12th of June 2024, and I've had a revelation of having

a heavenly father in the last two months.

So even that journey of Christianity.

So and it's a real issue and it's a real issue for us, but it's a real issue for the people

that are coming, the harvest that's coming because they're fatherless.

Yep.

Exactly right.

And I guess also the other thing that I see you saying that is it's great to see that

you are someone that is still continuing the relationship and the journey with Christ.

It never ends.

It never ends.

It's a shame that sometimes we do see quite a lot of people where they get saved, there

might be water baptised, maybe filled with the Holy Spirit, whatever, however far they

go and they sort of feel like they're complete there and they stop.

But to really for you sharing that with me and Rohan and all of our viewers here, it's

such an encouragement that it never ends.

No, that's right.

It's a journey that will always be taken one step after the other.

I think the Bible verses Acts 3 and 9, I think it is.

But the Holy Spirit gave it to me a long time ago, but it's about of repenting of your sins

and a refreshing will come.

But in other words, I didn't realise what he was saying, but he was basically saying,

if you press into me and keep pressing into me, refreshing times of refreshing will come

out of it.

So my Christian walk hasn't been easy to undo the past life because I'm a strong willed

person.

So it wasn't easy for me to undo the emotional baggage and stuff.

But I've always been as a person what you've said there, pressing in.

I've seen others drop off, they reach a mountain, they reach a wall and they go, no, it's all

too hard.

I'm on that.

I can't do it.

No, because this one with the spiritual father, that wasn't an easy one for me to submit to

another man's vision.

Tell you what, that's a, if you talk to my wife, that's a biggie for me.

That's a massive one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I couldn't do it because of the damage that was done in childhood, you know, overlaying

what I thought my dad was doing, which he wasn't.

He was really protecting me.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, I guess Jeremiah 18, remaining on that pot as well.

Yeah.

It can be a hard thing, but it's God's heart for us to be molded by Him, whether we want

to or not, whether we're hard pressed or...

And you know, at the nighttime when I go to sleep at night, the gratitude of God, you

know, like I wish I could just get out of me, you know, like a blood transfusion, if

you could just draw it out and put it in someone else of the expression.

I had 42 years of my life in the kingdom of darkness and I've had it since then till

now.

There's no comparison.

I cannot begin...

You know, we couldn't fill a book of the things that God's done in my life.

Yeah.

There's just no comparison.

I mean, if we use that cliche, it can be used as a cliche, but Jesus is the answer.

Yeah.

Amen.

We say it, you know, a lot of people say it, but I can internalize it.

He is my answer.

What He has done or what the Godhead has done in my life is amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

That's really good.

Yeah.

So you mentioned your wife, I believe her name's Karen.

Yeah.

She also has a story with you.

You coming to Christ, you guys came both together to Christ, I believe.

So let's go a little briefly about that.

Tell us the story.

Well, we were as anal as you could get.

We were as pagan.

We were pagans.

You know, if you put it with all of the things, you name it, we did it.

Yeah, okay.

So we're no saints, both of us, from our behavior and stuff.

Karen's sister and her husband were Christians and born again Christians, Pentecostal Christians.

And they kept talking to us about God and we're going, don't give us this blip blip

on your other fatless language.

And the Holy Spirit spoke to my sister-in-law and said, give Karen the book, This Present

Darkness by Frank Peretti.

And this would have been May 1990, because I don't know the day of her conversion, but

I certainly know mine.

And so she read the book and then realized she was on the other side, the dark side,

because she was in the tarot cards and all sorts of witchcraft and stuff.

Oh, wow.

And yeah, well, it wasn't to us.

And so she's processing that and then she gave me the book, This Present Darkness.

And then I read it and I read the follow-up from that, the sequel from that, This Present

Darkness, or Piercing the Darkness.

That's right.

Piercing the Darkness, Piercing the Darkness.

I read the two of them and we were in 48 hours.

All of a sudden, if I backtrack a bit on my walk, in my 20s, and I'll tie it in with Karen

as well, in my 20s, because I come from a nun church background, I never went to church

for us.

It was just a joke.

Funerals and weddings, that was us.

And so I can remember my dad standing over the fence when I was on the farm, it was about

probably 16 or 17, and he's leaning over the fence talking to these neighbours and their

young men of your age, and they were Catholics, but they were really devout, strong Catholics,

right?

Really good guys.

Yeah.

And I can still remember me saying, well, as long as my kids obey the Ten Commandments,

well, someone has to teach you the Ten Commandments to know what they even are, right?

So when I...

And this is my worldview, my view of that.

So no church upbringing, and then my mates, we were all drinkers and sex and all of the

other stuff, that was my drive, was sex, and alcohol.

And so we were all out partying and what have you.

And some of my friends were Catholics, and I remember one morning at like 5.30 in the

morning going, oh, look at the time, I've got to go to Mass at 6.30.

So they went to church and traditional things, and come out, picked up the birds, picked

up the cigarettes, picked up the swearing, all of the things that would do it no different

to me.

But I was in another group in an organisation called Young Farmers, which was the rural

club, and it was just a great organisation.

In there, there was two denominations, Methodist and Presbyterian, which is now the United

Church.

But they would take potshots at each other.

And I'm trying to get my head around this as someone that doesn't understand God.

And so they were good people, clean living people, whatever, but why are they, isn't

the same God?

I can't get my head around this.

And at that era, we had Hitler, because I was born in 48, so we're recovering from the

war, so I saw what Hitler did.

And the two despots of that time was Pol Pot and Idi Amin.

They were the guys that were just terrible things.

So everyone's talking about this God is love.

God is love, like, nah.

And so I just basically in my head, it would have been in my 20s somewhere, I would have

said, I don't know God.

So I went my own way.

But to come back to the story with Karen is what happened is she read the book and had

a revolution, a revolution, it was a revolution, but a revelation.

And we were losing our business and we were facing bankruptcy.

And we had to get a new accountant and a new solicitor.

Both were born again Christians.

And what happened is the accountant's name was George Ring.

And Karen went to his office and he's like got all the God stuff around the walls and

stuff.

And I can't remember the conversation, but yeah, yeah, I believe in God, but don't give

me that blip blip.

So he's about to have dinner.

And this would have been my conversion was the 23rd of May.

So we don't know, but it would have only been four or five days earlier than that.

He's about to have dinner.

I'm not home this particular evening.

And he's about to have dinner and the voice of God very clearly said to him, go and speak

to Karen Fechtman now.

So he pushed the meal off the table, grabbed his Bible and headed to our place not knowing

if she was home or not.

So he knocks on the door, Karen opens the door and invites him in.

What's that under your head?

But he didn't know that she'd read the book and she was processing that she was in the

kingdom of darkness, not the kingdom of light.

So she was processing this in her head.

God used George to come to the house.

So he led her to the Lord.

And like when she, and this is where we clearly know the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom

of light, because they're sitting across the table and George is saying, would you like

to ask Jesus into your life?

A language we didn't understand then of course.

But she's hearing this voice saying yes, yes.

But in the other ear she's saying, no, don't do it now.

What will Carl think of this and stuff?

So she's having the two conversations.

She's hearing the two lots of voices.

One's God and one's the kingdom of darkness.

And so then she heard this voice go yes.

And like she physically felt a hand in the back of her back, push her across the table

and I can't lean forward because of the mic, but she leaned forward and went, yes, George,

I do.

Wow.

Amazing.

And then led her to the Lord.

Wow.

And it was like, and then it was like instantly for her, the foul language, she was the, her

language and she, this is public, she doesn't, so I'm not speaking out of turn.

She had one of the foulest mouths that even the roughest of guys would blush at her, when

she knew jokes or whatever.

She was a heavy drinker.

Wow.

Dope.

She was a heavy drinker, we were, drugs was recreation, drugs, et cetera.

Yeah.

Whole lot was healed like that.

Wow.

Mine wasn't quite like that, but hers was.

Just amazing.

Took all the jokes away, took the drinking away, took the drugs away, the whole lot instantly.

What a miracle.

It was just amazing.

That's incredible.

Mine wasn't that way.

So I'm like, I'm like, why aren't voices like that for me?

So that was her conversion.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

That was.

That's incredible.

And it is.

So moving on from there, you've had a lot of experience and a lot of success in business.

Looking back now, you obviously can see that God had placed that gift on your life, being

a country boy, a sheep farmer, cattle farmer, going out from country Victoria, starting

businesses in Sydney, in Victoria, all this sort of thing.

Let's talk about that for a bit, your business, wherever you'd like to start off, where the

start of your business journey happened and how it progressed.

When you've been around for 75 years and it started in your 20s, it's a long story, but

I'll be as succinct as I can.

What I didn't realise, and we talked about earlier, before we came online, is that really

I'm a strategist.

God's given me a gift, the ability to strategise.

I can look at something and see the opportunity, and then not only see the opportunity, but

then work out how to create that opportunity or transform that opportunity.

When you look at my, if anyone wants to look at my own personal website, which is CarlJohnFekner.com,

they can see the history there.

So the first one was, as you said, the ski lodge at Mount Bourbourg.

So it was pioneers.

I never realised that.

So I saw an opportunity.

So we built the first commercial ski lodge at Mount Bourbourg in 1973.

That's incredible.

I love that.

And then, you know, like I worked on a cash van at one stage and tripled their sales in

12 months.

Then when we moved to Sydney with my first wife, and that's another story in itself,

but when I moved to Sydney, I went into the motor trade and I started, because I was just

a country kid.

And you know lots of things, but you're the master of none type thing.

A rouse about if I use that name.

Jack of all trades.

Jack of all trades, a master of none.

So I went there just as, and I'm like long beard, long hair, whatever, real country kid.

So I'm just a gopher in the dealership.

And then I progressed to start my own detailing business, which we talked about, because I

just do it.

So I started that, then realised that I couldn't make money out of it.

So I closed that, went and managed their pre-living in the dealership.

And then I'm looking at it, and I'm saying looking up, but upstairs was the showroom

and stuff for this dealership.

So I'm looking at all these salesmen thinking, man, I can do this.

So I ended up in sales and very quickly become one of GMH's top salespeople.

And then I was chasing the management side.

So I went to a Toyota dealership.

And there's a whole story, but that was just success.

And if I use them, I've either worked for myself and pioneered businesses and transformed

them or I've worked in businesses and transformed them.

I realised I needed to be succinct in my story.

But like that Toyota dealership, it was just one in Sydney.

But in 13 months, I identified the strategy of how to outperform my competitors.

And we end up number one in New South Wales and number three in Australia.

And that's the story of what I do.

So I can go into a business and look at it and analyse it, get inside their head and

then analyse it how to do that.

And that's, you would say, the gift that God has placed on your life.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I never realised that someone at 75 doesn't have good internet knowledge, but my knowledge

could almost be as good as you guys.

Because when I was at mid 90s, I learnt how to sell websites.

So I had to learn computers and the whole technology.

Oh my goodness.

So by learning that, that's given me unique knowledge for my age now.

And out of that, I started a company called Internet Secrets Made Easy.

And that's the company that I sold, right?

And then passed on.

And then I've still got people coming back to me asking me about it.

So I just registered a trading name, Strategy Consultants.

But I analysed how to go into businesses and take them online because most people in the

age of 40 onwards can't master the internet.

My age group, if you think about it, we live in a time warp.

If you think about like the Henry Ford, the industrial area, farmer with his horses and

everything else, they lived in a time warp.

So your baby boomers are living in a time warp.

You guys grew up with computers, we didn't.

So I had that ability to go into businesses and not just one field.

The principles that I've learnt, whether they're subconscious or whatever, I can go into any

business in any area in any field and sit down and analyse and transform the business.

The old website, Internet Secrets Made Easy is still there.

I've sold it, but they've still kept the website and all the testimonies.

And they're not just one particular field, they're principles that I've applied to the

lot.

And I've still got people asking me to do it, so that's why I've just registered.

It's not my main focus.

So I guess for our viewers, say if you're young in business or in any field really,

I guess from hearing what you've said, there's a lot of little things you can pick up now

that benefit you later on in your future with your career or your calling or your gifting,

whatever it may be.

There's no real such as, even though something doesn't have major significance, it maybe

comes out later on in life rather than we're expecting this.

We're in an instant society right now where we just want everything to happen now.

But from what I'm hearing, there's a lot that you've picked up throughout life that has

benefited you later on.

Yes, life experiences.

And now I realise that that is to sow that into others.

So I've got some people that I've brought to Christ and then walked them through the

discipleship program.

And a couple of them have gone into their own businesses.

So I just work as a consultant and just meet with them each weekend, because it's natural

for me.

It's like the path for them, they don't know the path, but I do.

So there's financial, all of that stuff, no.

But when it comes to the sales and marketing and the growth of your business, I understand

that.

That to me is natural, it's breathing in.

So I can just look at their business and go, do that, okay, do that, do that.

And when you do that, then come back and we'll sit down again.

And I love doing it.

If someone's having a go, I love helping them have a go.

If they don't put into place what you're trying to teach them, they'll go, no, it's all too

hard, just move on.

But if they're having a go, I'm right beside them.

I love it.

It gives me great pleasure.

That's cool.

Yeah, that's so good.

You know, like my dad's into business, and he has lots of experience, and he's also come

from an era where there's no computers, never grew up with computers.

And there are lots of young businessmen who approach him and underestimate what he's capable

of because he has so much experience, but they're like, oh, you don't know the modern

ways of doing things.

But slowly they're realizing that it's the experience that matter, even if you have like

a...

It's the principles.

Yeah, even if there's AI or something doing business for you, but nothing better than

experience, which is always great.

Well, you've stood on all the landmines.

Yeah, that's true.

That's a good way of putting it.

So you can help them out.

These are the landmines, don't step on these ones.

I've done it, so don't step.

Whether they take any notice or not is a different thing.

You can help them not step on the landmine.

That is so amazing.

So they have wealth of knowledge and wealth of knowledge with business.

And I'm just very keen to hear...

Because I don't usually meet people that have this business kind of mindset and also very

spiritually aligned.

Yeah, it's quite rare.

Yeah, because when we were reading your profile, we were like, wow, okay.

This is something that is very unique.

And I haven't met people like that, so I really have great respect for you.

But sometimes I just want to know, because the norms of doing a business can also not

align with the spiritual aspect of it.

As you can only worship one God, it's either money or the true God.

So looking in that perspective, how would you answer the question when someone tells

you you can only worship money or God?

How would you answer that question?

It's not a short answer because we live in a mammon driven society.

Everything is around that in Western society.

Because it's so much in the fabric of our society, that means it's in the fabric of

our own personal DNA.

And it's even harder probably for your generation and ours because what you're talking about

instant.

Instant, everything's got to be instant.

I'll have it tomorrow.

I'm going to have an instant house, instant whatever.

And in business, business is about delayed gratification.

So it's very hard for someone that's a wage earner to transition into a business because

it's delayed gratification.

Yeah, true.

And probably for me, because of the farming background, you sow the paddocks, whatever,

and you wait for the crop.

You have your sheep or whatever it is the product you're using.

It's all about delayed gratification.

Times and seasons.

Times and seasons, yeah.

So the mammon issue is not an easy one.

But maybe if I share what my conversion happened, that might help with it.

So go back to when my 20s, I said, I don't need God.

So I was driven out of my woundedness.

So I was just driven.

I destroyed my first family, destroyed my kids, the whole lot in that drivenness.

Because one of the things that was said over me at one stage is you and no hope are just

like your uncle.

So add that on top of what happened as a child.

I was fighting these invisible demons that I didn't realize them and perfectionists.

I wouldn't take time off.

When I worked in the motor truck, I worked every weekend.

So I was completely devoid of being a father.

So just that wasn't there because I was just so driven.

And when I get there, that's when I'll spend time with the kids.

Well, that's stupid.

You never get there.

You never get there.

So what happened is when we talk about success stories, and I've got to tie this in for it

makes sense.

The pinnacle of those success was specifically for the motor trade because I become a really

good student of looking after the customer.

That was the essence.

That was the secret.

Make sure you look after the customer.

So to put that into real things, when I came back from Sydney, I just had no money.

I just handed the house over to my wife and everything else.

Me and my aero bar, which was a bar with a lot of air in it, a chopper thing, that was

the joke.

So for Karen and I, we met then.

And at that stage, we were living together.

And we were basically sleeping on the floor.

So I started this used car yard with eight cars worth 15 grand.

So you think of eight cars, and the total value is 15 grand wholesale.

That's not a lot.

They're all real old bombies and stuff.

So I had a philosophy, would I own the car?

What would I expect to be repaired on it?

Because it's an old car.

And then what price would I buy it for?

That was my thing.

So none of this nonsense about inflated prices and bring it back.

Just good deal for your customers.

So we were in Latrobe Valley, and that's an industrial area.

So I don't know Brisbane very well, but heavy industrial.

That's where your brown coal and what's trying to destroy it at the moment, all the electricity

is coming from.

So you've got a lot of blue collar workers there.

So in 1986, in some month, we opened that yard with that and me and that.

And it was an empty yard, and I just refurbished it.

Called it Matilda Motor Company, which is what it was.

And knew all the branding from the high profile of the success I did in Sydney.

In 1990, I had 95 cars in stock, worth a million dollars and 33 people working for me in a

four year period.

So it was a pinnacle of success.

All those years I've learned to do that.

But I didn't have god in the equation.

So we expanded into a new premises.

And in that was when Keating, at that stage, we had inflation running at 18.

I had some money borrowed at 18%.

We talk about now.

So Keating as the premier, as the prime minister, put the brakes on it.

So we were in expansion mode.

It's the most fragile time you can be in business when you're in expansion mode.

You do not want something to bump the economy.

So cars is one of the first things that gets turned off.

And so out of all of that, we got caught and went broke.

So there's a whole story with that.

But in that, I met Jesus.

And I've had a conversation with him since and he said, well, if I hadn't have done or

let you do what you did, you wouldn't have met me.

Exactly right.

And so the 22nd of May 1990, the business had closed and we were facing imminent bankruptcy.

I didn't want to go that way.

But in the end, the sheriff who become our friend said, listen, this could go on for

the next five or seven years.

You need to declare bankruptcy to stop it from happening.

Otherwise, they just keep coming at you for the rest of your life.

And by that time, it was mostly it was commercial lenders, not private individuals.

So anyway, so I read the book called This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness

and I understood the demonic.

And I was a caretaker for a mate's car yard.

And I was sitting there and I started a journal in my diary.

Now this is coming from someone that had no relationship with God.

And I'm writing in my diary, dear God, the devil of despair has he's caused me and I'm

writing in this journal in my diary.

And I'm realizing the kingdom of darkness and all this spiritual world around us.

And Karen's been saved four or five days.

As I'm writing, the phone rings and it's my brother-in-law who'd been praying for us for

12 months.

And I just burst into tears, which is hard not for me to now do it.

And I realized that was God answering.

Because I'm writing this never got the finish.

And I've actually photocopied that page and put on the wall.

Absolutely.

So I hang up on him and he goes, ah, typical Carl.

Because that's the nature of what I was.

Within minutes, the pastor of the local apostolic church who was the pastor for our Christian

accountant walks to the door.

What?

Yeah.

Walked to the door, knocked on the door and says, is Karen here?

And he was just a big burly bloke and he says, is Karen here?

And I'm going, no, she's home sick.

And he says, well, I'm George Rings, pastor, Arthur, my name is Arthur Rennes and I'm the

local pastor of the local apostolic church.

So I'm looking at him and I'm connecting with God in this stuff and knowing the spiritual

on this happened.

So I said, have a look at what's written in my book.

So he looks in my book and he said, would you like Jesus in your life?

Now to someone that's unsure, that doesn't make any sense.

But I knew I needed God.

So we're in this little used car yard and it's like a little office like this out there

and a little kitchen out the back.

So we went out the back.

He's got his hand on my head and he's got this big booming voice and he's playing away

and I'm like, I'm crying my eyes out and snot and tears going everywhere.

I'm just losing it.

And then we prayed and then we gained composure and we sat down, had a cup of tea and away

he went.

But he knew Karen was sick, right?

And that's important for the next stage of the story.

So a panel beat, I bought a car back to the yard and I had no cars to give him.

Normally I'd bring one back and you'd give him another one.

So I just locked the place up and then took him home.

And I can still remember this is the significant turning point for my world.

What happens, I'm driving back and it's about 4.30, five o'clock in the afternoon.

I can tell you it's a white Holden Kingswood station wagon and it's got a tan dashboard.

I can see it all so clear.

I'm looking through as the sun is sort of coming down on it and I speak out.

Those days I did not talk out loud to myself.

And I'm going, the almost exact words, God, I don't know why this man Jesus died on the

cross.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in my life, but I know I'm for you.

That's the exact words that I said.

So I never thought anymore about it, drove back to the yard and by this time it's time

to lock up and go home and the yard was a gravel yard.

So I'm locking up the cars and I hear footsteps behind them, crunch, crunch, crunch on the

gravel and I look around, guess who's there?

It's Arthur Renison, that pastor.

And he just happened to be driving past and just happened to pull up because he saw a

car out the front.

Just happened that Karen might be back there.

And I knew it was God talking to me, revealing him.

I said to Arthur, why do you hear, tell me why this man Jesus died on the cross?

And I remember him laughing.

I can never remember what he said, but God showed up significantly that first day three

times.

Wow.

It was so real.

And then tying that into reading the books, I knew where I was.

And our background before that in the yard, our car yard, if Christians come in, especially

those fish sticker ones, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Or those born again ones.

I wouldn't talk to them.

Oh, sure.

But when it come to the book, by the time I got to the end of the book reading this

present darkness and like the devil's coming in causing disunity to stop them from praying

together.

I'm not like I'm going from over here, won't talk to Christians to here reading the book

going, come on you guys, get together and start praying together.

You're backing them.

I'm backing them.

I'm backing them.

I'm crying through the book.

Come on guys.

It was just such a transition.

That book, every Christian should read that book.

It just opens up the whole spiritual realm because it made sense.

There's a kingdom of life.

How can you buy into, and this is the world that's out there that doesn't know Jesus

like me.

You can't buy into a God is love when all this terrible stuff has happened to you or

you see it happening around you.

You can't buy into God of love.

But if you can get them to understand the kingdom of darkness, there's two spiritual

kingdoms.

All of a sudden Christianity made sense.

It's what I understood that.

And that's what that day, you know, when I said the devil of despair has, I could see

what was happening.

Yeah.

Was the right thing.

Some of it's my actions, but some of it is him coming through, coming against us.

Yeah, yeah.

No, exactly.

So the journey began.

So from an amazing salvation experience, which you just cannot deny God at that point.

It's cemented in your life.

Yeah, forever forever.

No journey back.

Yeah, moving in from now about growing deep and strong.

If you can share what how that came about, how that came about and explain to our viewers

of what it is and and and we'll go into there.

Yeah.

So so I be ties in with what I just spoke about.

So we were totally committed then to church to God.

Yep.

So we knew we needed to go to church.

So we started off in Latrobe Valley and a little apostolic church called Little Apostolic

Church.

And that's where my brother-in-law and sister-in-law and another couple and they were the forum

had prayed for us for 12 months.

So that's the fruit of prayer.

And so from an unchurched background, I didn't understand the language.

And you know, here's a Bible, go read the Bible or whatever.

So I struggle with it.

But my commitment to God, that was unshakable.

There was no turning back to the kingdom of darkness, like I saw what he could do to you.

That was no option.

Yep.

But I struggled with the whole discipleship program.

I really struggled with that.

So as we so we were there.

And then when we moved to Melbourne, it was the same issue.

So we went outside of the church to actually get deliverance and healing and a whole lot

of other stuff.

And we actively pursued, you know, the discipleship, trying to find it to get to understand to

it.

Yep.

And one of the significant things is we found the Bible, the New King James Spirit for Life

Bible.

And I was on to my bat my fourth Bible by that that was my fourth Bible, because also

when I read the Bible, also I saw as this God with a big bad stick.

I didn't understand all of the things in the Old Testament.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm reading that.

And so and God was just so good in that I read I think it was Robert Shuler, because

I'd spent 1000s on self development as pre Christian days.

Yeah, okay.

And I knew that so there's a Bible called by Robert Shuler, who's a motivational speaker.

Yep.

And it's got all the good bits highlighted in blue writing.

So I was in that journey, then I got to the Spirit for Life Bible.

And I saw the kingdom what they term as kingdom dynamic study notes.

Yep.

Right of all these various contributors.

And when I read that and understood that, I was just devouring it.

Yeah.

But I still struggled in my in my war.

So and also struggled in the whole area of deliverance.

So we know from ourselves that Christians can carry demonic baggage, they're not demon

possessed.

No, that's right.

They can carry demonic baggage into their wall.

Exactly right.

So I knew we were going outside the church to do that.

But I saw all these weird wacko deliverance ministries and stuff and showmanship and all

of the other stuff.

We saw it all.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's a long story, but it'll all come together in a minute.

And so what happened is I'm a prayer.

I love prayer, and I love prophetic intercession.

I love it.

Prayer meetings, if you allow the Holy Spirit to tell you what's on his mind to pray for,

they're exciting.

Yeah.

Not shopping list, prayer list, but where you come, just get into worship, hear the

Holy Spirit and then collectively say, I feel the Holy Spirit saying this, let's pray on

this.

Yeah, yeah.

I love it.

I love that.

And so I went to a conference in Sydney, and Lila Tuhun was the intercessor coordinator

from Brownsville AOG.

Oh, wow.

And so she was there four days, and in the four days, she mentioned all our intercessors

go through cleansing streams.

And I went, I don't know what that is, but I know that's what I've been looking for.

Yeah.

So I tracked it down, and out of that, and you probably saw from our bio, we went to

America and it was all faith driven.

God opened the doors, he paid for it the whole lot.

We give up our careers the whole lot.

We went to America, and we saw 2000 people come together in a safe, orderly manner, get

delivered of demonic baggage in a safe, structured manner.

It was just amazing.

Beautiful, because that almost never happens.

Just that they nailed it.

They mastered it.

Yeah, wow.

So then we knew that we were to bring that back to Australia.

So we bought that back to Australia.

It's a 20 week discipleship program, and then has what they call the retreat.

We call them encounter weekends, but in essence they're deliverance weekends.

So in America, in Australia and New Zealand, we saw about some 3,000 to 5,000 people go

through the program and get delivered.

I think in Australia there's about 150 churches would do it.

So we just would have the churches do it, and then we would then bring them all together

in one room, teach the people how to pray for the people, teach them how to present

the topics, and then go through a very safe, structured system.

Yeah.

So for one, it's not a system, it's Holy Spirit led, but understand what I'm trying

to say.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

And then our biggest one was 1,200 people, which was extraordinary.

But the challenge with cleansing streams, which is not really operating anymore, but

the challenge was it was, is it had an understanding.

You had to be a Christian.

Like most Americas have a Christian understanding.

So if you had no church upbringing, it was like a train smash, because it's all Christian

language.

And then when they got to the end of the 20 weeks, they've built friendships, they've

built small groups.

Yeah.

But they go back into the church and they just disband it.

So in my head, I'm going, this is in 1999, I'm going in my head, we need something before,

we need something after.

So strategist, I'm starting to work out the strategy.

But this is set in stone.

In August of 1999, a prophet come into our church and pulled me out of the crowd and

spoke to me and said, God's about to blank out your diary and give you a whole new vision.

And it's not a rewrite, it's a whole new vision and the next generation will erupt.

Wow.

So that's in August.

I'm going, oh, that's interesting.

Yeah.

December, we were out of that ministry.

And that's a story within itself.

We were out of that ministry.

We then did 12 months of ministry training college.

And then in 2002, we wrote what we call as growing deep and strong.

Wow, there you go.

And so I thought that it would take six months and it took us six years and some 35,000 hours

to write.

So the essence of growing deep and strong, it's like two components to it, a 20 week

course or we can, in its ideal way, 20 weeks or 37 weeks.

The second part is the leadership program, how to teach them.

Okay.

So there's some premises with this that the Christian, the new Christian had no church

upbringing.

Yep.

So we had to take him on a path.

That was one of the things.

Yep.

The other thing is I saw way back early in my walk that I knew in the future there's

coming a harvest of unprecedented proportions.

I saw that in the early 90s.

Yep.

Right out of a vision that God showed me.

Yep.

And we all know that if we're listening to what the prophets are saying, we're on the

brink of a billion soul harvest.

That's the terminology and it's not just a revival, it's a transformation of a whole

society.

Yeah.

So I believe that growing deep and strong was written for now.

Yep.

So when we wrote it, we wrote it and God provided it all the way.

So when we finished it, I went, that's fantastic.

I'm going to go out and tell all the churches what...

People would buy the church back, it never went any further.

Yeah.

So I went back to work.

Okay.

Now that was like all the success I had.

Yeah.

And then in 2018, he said, come on, I need you to get all this ready.

Now in that time we had trialed it.

So in the church that we trialed it in, in the early stages, we saw the two people groups,

one was about 35 of the most broken people, they sweep them out of the streets.

I don't mean disrespectful, I'm just saying associate demographics.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Homosexuals, alcoholics, drug addicts, a lot.

Just sweep them in, put them in the room and I saw God transform over that 20-week program.

And the second group that we had was like white collar workers, people, and I saw the

same transformation.

Yep.

And so then basically it stopped.

And then we've had ones and twos and threes and fours and fives.

And if you look on the website, and especially on the YouTube channel, you'll see all the

testimonies of people.

Some people have been...

One man has been a Christian 50 years.

Oh, wow.

And it totally changed the life.

Wow.

Another one 36 years or 28 years or whatever.

So it's not just the brand new ones.

No.

It's the existing Christians.

Yep.

So in essence, we're the program because of what it is.

Just think if we think now in our current mindset of doing church to then back to the

book of Acts, what is it?

3000 people read it on the first day?

Yeah, yeah.

That's right.

Add 3000 people to your building now of our community.

Yeah.

What are we gonna do with them?

Yeah, exactly.

So one of the things, the way we wrote it and why it took us so long, we had to make

it biblically sound, we had to have it that anyone with leadership or management skills

could pick up what we call the coach's manual and begin teaching others.

Yeah.

So let's say that's God's Spirit happening, which it is, a business is converted, the

boss is there, he can then pick up the growing, deep and strong coach's manual and he can

start discipling his staff.

Yep.

Because it's been designed any location, any time frame, anything.

Perfect.

And it has to be theologically sound.

Yeah.

And the testament is online that you can see it, it's just amazing.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

But the way it's presented, we present the topic, so if we use a topic, we'll use why

Jesus came, that's one of the topics, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Cool.

So the coach presents the topic verbally because we want to catch all the way the learning

senses.

So you verbally present the topic, read it straight out of the coach's manual, they just

listen, take notes or whatever, then they go home and study it.

Ah, cool.

So when I, and this ties it back to that New King James Spirit for Life Bible, because

we use that Bible because of all of the study notes and the contributors and the information

that's in it.

And also the major key is we page number every Bible verse.

Oh, wow.

So John 10, 10, John 3, 16, which we know, someone that's brand new like I was back in

has no idea.

No.

You're embarrassed.

So if you're embarrassed, you're just going to run away, you're not going to face it.

This is one of the problems.

If you're very, as one of my coaches says to me, he said, if you're very successful

in business and you come into a church, they just overload the success.

Oh, you're successful, here's the Bible, go read it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we're not.

We're empty.

We're void in that area.

So what happens is they've heard it, they go home and they look up the Bible verse and

they have to fill them in.

So they can't cheat the system.

They've got to look it up.

So you're teaching them Bible habits.

Read your Bible every day.

So good.

You've done 60 to 90 minutes over the week, right?

So 60 minutes, bit every day, read in your Bible, what have you.

So then when they get to the end of that, they reconvene either Zoom or whatever way

you want.

They meet together and at the back of the coaches one, there's a set of questions that

they ask based on that topic.

So they've heard it, they've studied it and they've discussed it.

So you touch all the learning codes and then you sign off on it as the coach to make sure

they're accountable and they can't cheat it because they don't know the answer to the

questions because they haven't filled it out.

And at the back of the book is a certificate of recognition.

That's fantastic.

I mean, I sort of feel that one of the biggest ways the church can fail is have an altar

call, get people saved and then never see them again.

And then a lot of people can go, well, I tried God, I tried Jesus and nothing changed.

And I'd say that's probably one of the biggest ways that the church could fail and we see

it a lot today.

And it's not about salvation, it's about discipleship.

Jesus didn't say go and make salvation.

He said go and make disciples and disciple the nations.

And that's been Achilles heel.

And so that's where that strategist comes back.

I saw, I experienced it and I saw what was there and I looked at all the different programs

and then realised we need to have one that takes them on a journey.

So it's four nine-week modules to build it into school terms.

And as I said, it can be any time, any location.

But the first module is called Laying the Foundation.

So we read and teach them how to navigate the Bible and show them that you transferred

from a kingdom of darkness to a kingdom of light.

So we've got a video on that so they can see it.

So they understand that they've gone from this kingdom to this kingdom.

Because it's invisible, how do you tangibly do that?

And also teach them how to navigate this Bible so they can become self-sufficient in reading

the Bible from themselves.

And this Bible is brilliant because it's got something like 40 or 50 contributors that

have all put the study notes in.

So why try and reinvent the wheel?

They've put it into that Bible.

It's one of the best Bibles.

That's all there.

So the next topic that we do, before you meet your new king, you need to know who your old

king was.

And we teach them and show them biblically what the devil did through the Bible.

And we show them the biblical things.

And I remember this because I was copying some flack from a pastor over this.

And I thought, no, I know because I've come from my own background.

We need to teach this.

And what happened is we had a drug addict in that first group.

And she'd been very successful as a news reporter, but drugs had destroyed her life.

So she comes back into the course.

I present the topic.

She goes home and studies it.

When she comes back, she literally, through the book on the table, went, I've been conned.

And I went, thank you, Jesus.

I've just been vindicated.

That's set on course.

She then had an open mind to then receive the rest.

And then it's introducing them to the Godhead, why Jesus came, introducing them to the Holy

Spirit, the person of the Holy Spirit, to understand who is not some nebulous thing

out there.

And that's had major transformations for Christians.

I've got one lady now who's my age.

She's gone through the course.

And I prophesied over her.

And then I said, hey, you need to come and do this course.

And she was sort of, oh, I've been a long time.

But her relationship with the Holy Spirit now has gone through the roof.

That was amazing.

And then angels, we teach on angels because what's happening?

They've all got their psychics and this and that.

So do it.

And then Simon the sorcerer, which talks about that he brought his baggage in.

That sets him up for an encounter weekend.

So that's a spiritual baby, that first module.

The only expectation is do the study, nothing else.

Just keep in it.

And then the second one, which is power of godly character.

Now you're a teenager growing into adulthood, there's godly character issues you need to

understand.

And so that touches your purity, your integrity, lawlessness, your mammon.

That's where it addresses all the power of our words, that, to set them up.

And when you look at the testimonies of it, you'll see how that's transformed people.

And then the next one is the leadership program.

And the good thing about it is they can start discipling others myself.

And that's what happened with a new ager.

She got transferred.

I sat down at a coffee shop, taught her.

And she then started to disciple others, new agers, out of the second one.

So that was long winded, but it's not easy to explain.

But it was pulling that business strategies, looking at what the need was in the body of

Christ.

And now what my aim is, is the Holy Spirit has said to me very clearly, get my people

ready.

So now we're running encounter weekends as standalone events for Christians, so we can

clean up the demonic baggage that's there.

And also start to set them up to disciple others, because we need to be ready for what

is coming.

And this is a tool that any church can pick it up.

And the other thing He said to me, create new Christian training centers.

So the center might sound like the wrong word, and people may have told me, create training

center hubs.

So any church could pick up our material and create a hub or a training center within their

church.

That's my mantle.

I've done the job now to help others to do that.

And that ties back into what you said, what my mandate was on my mission.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you for that.

That was long winded, but it was important.

No, no.

That's all good.

But thank you for sharing that.

I think our view is enough.

We're really blessed by listening to this.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Unfortunately, our show is very, very short.

And we would love to have more conversations with you.

I'm sure there'll be our viewers requesting you to come for another episode.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

But thank you again.

What we like to do towards the end of the show is for you to pray for our show, our

viewers, and our church.

So we'll let you do that.

Yeah.

So just one thing that's tied off, and I know where to do that, is that growingdeepandstrong.com

So just his search, growingdeepandstrong.com.

They'll get all the information there.

They can buy all the materials if they want to.

They can check it all out.

There's testimonies of the whole lot that is there.

Beautiful.

And it's interesting.

This is the second time that I've been in this church.

And this church, which is your dad, who's a pastor here, and yourself, I saw him last

night every time I see it in the Spirit.

And I saw it again in the Spirit when I was in prayer, is that what I saw this morning

when the Holy Spirit was talking to me.

I saw your dad as a general, but generals around him.

Yeah, wow.

It was amazing.

And I know some of the...

When I came here last year, I know some of the people like Reds, Klimanok, etc.

Yeah.

Is that I know these guys from many years ago with cleansing strands.

Yeah.

And so when I looked around, and Laurie Thompson was who bought me, you've got leaders upon

leaders in here.

This in the heavenlies is like an atomic bomb that's about to take off.

Yeah.

Now I know there's lots of warfare coming against you guys.

Absolutely, yeah.

Because the devil knows what God's got planned for this place.

It is just massive.

Yep.

And the calling on your dad is just massive.

It's huge, yeah.

So, Father God, I just thank you for what has taken place and the privilege today, God.

And I pray those words that I've said that they will be like an impartation to people

that know Jesus, but people that don't know Jesus.

I pray, God, that people that don't know Jesus, that they get an understanding from my own

story, that just how great He is.

Even though they may not know you, God, I pray that through what was said today, that

they will get an understanding that will draw it in just like it did for me.

Whatever the catalyst is, God, to draw them into you, God, I pray that this can be one

of those or they have their own journey.

And God, I pray for this church.

I pray that your angelic host will come and stand around this church.

And it's really funny, I got a vision, like gladiators, that they will stand up, an army

of angels with their shields up and their swords up, shoulder to shoulder, standing

around this place and a canopy over the place to sovereignly guard and protect God.

That I pray, Holy Spirit, that you would continue to lead them and guide them and instruct them

and encourage them in what they're doing.

God, I pray that you gather in, that it be a bunch of like, like it's collaborators.

I pray, God, there's like a collaboration of your generals here.

And I pray, Lord, for Rob, that you will sovereignly guard and protect him.

Holy Spirit, that you would walk with him and guide him and lead him as he leads the

team here.

And it's like, man, I just keep getting it.

It's like collaboration.

It's like coalition.

It's like joint forces.

God, that he's the leader, but there's just a pack of generals standing with him.

And God, I pray that you would raise him up as what you've got, the destiny and the call

that it is, God.

I pray for your sovereign protection as they fulfill the destiny that you have for them.

Amen.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us.

We were truly blessed by this episode.

I hope you guys are blessed too.

Catch us next time on Real Top Friday.

As we conclude our episode of Real Top Friday, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all our

listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey.

But our journey doesn't end here.

Join us every Friday as we continue to uncover the real stories of real people, where authenticity

intersects with spirituality in profound ways.

Together we'll navigate the complexities of life, finding inspiration and hope in the

remarkable narratives shared within the walls of Logan City Christian Church.

Thank you for tuning in.

And until next time, may your faith journey be filled with grace, understanding and the

unwavering presence of God.

Stay tuned for more Real Talk every Friday on Real Top Friday.