Real Talk Friday S3 E3: Exploring Faith, Persecution & Purpose w/ Steve Swenson of Open Doors

Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts,

Rohan Das and Gus Urban. In this groundbreaking

podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives

of individuals whose journey has been profoundly

transformed by their faith. From the trial of

adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore

real stories, real people whose encounter with

God has reshaped their existence. Join us as

we embark on a candid and enlightening journey

where authenticity meets spirituality every Friday

on Real Talk Friday. part of Logan City Christian

Church. Hello and welcome to another episode

of Real Talk Friday. I'm glad you joined us.

Today we have a really special guest and we have

so much stories for you and definitely such great

testimony, not only his, but other people too,

that he's going to share some testimonies of

people. I'll give it to Gus to introduce him

because Gus knows him better than me. Yeah, yeah.

Well, welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us

again. Steve, Steve Swenson, thanks for joining

us. It's a pleasure to have you on. A friend

to us, a friend to my parents especially in this

church. But yeah, it's just an honour to have

you on representing Open Doors. So yeah, we're

very excited to hear what you have to say. It's

a privilege to be here. Actually, a surprise

to be here. Now that I know there's cameras involved,

I thought people have told me I've got a good

head for radio. Very good. So tell us quickly

what Open Door is all about before we dive into

your story. Just because I think it's very interesting

because I got to know about Open Door fairly

recently and I've thoroughly enjoyed some of

the videos. We're being played. And we have a

video for you guys about Helen. And I really

love that video. So I thought I would just put

that in our segment. But quickly tell us what

Open Doors is all about. Okay. Well, the mission

of Open Doors is to serve the persecuted and

strengthen the church. By persecuted, I don't

mean... Like when we go home from church on Sunday

and our neighbours mow the lawn or hose on the

lawn and he goes, oh, how was your happy clapper

service today? People who are facing extreme

violence and persecution for being followers

of Jesus Christ around the world. And our role

is to serve them and strengthen the church in

those countries, but here in Australia as well.

And we do that in many ways, but we'll get into

that a little bit later. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So talk us through about this video. going to

be showed on Spotify and YouTube. If you're watching

on YouTube, you're definitely going to see this

beautiful video. And on Spotify, you've got to

go on YouTube to watch it. But you'll definitely

hear the sound, but it's a great video to watch.

So talk us through about this Helen story. What's

that all about? Well, in some countries, it's

not illegal to be a Christian, but it's very

much illegal to share your faith. And Helen lives

in Eritrea. It's a country where it isn't illegal

to be a Christian, but very definitely illegal

to share your faith. But she decided that she

would sing Christian songs basically on the steps

of her church. And what that cost her was 32

months in a shipping container where they tried

to torture her to renounce her faith and to renounce

her belief in Jesus Christ with a tool that was

meant to kill her. But as you'll see... in her

testimony, just a powerful testimony of God's

sustaining power and victorious power in her

life. She made it through, but it was so cold

that they would freeze at night in the shipping

container and during the heat of the day it would

burn their skin. This is the type of persecution

that Open Doors, we work with those beautiful

people on the ground to strengthen them in the

face of that. But that's the story of Helen.

I told it very poorly. The video tells it a whole

lot better. And yeah, she's an absolute hero

of faith. Absolutely. Well, let's watch the video

now of Helen. Hi, it's Helen. I'm safe now. Who

can preach the gospel? The answer is simple.

Anyone who is not afraid to die. I was in that

shipping container for 32 months. In the heat

of desert day, the walls would burn our skin.

In the night, we shook from the cold. I remember

the story of Paul and Silas. Like them, I began

to sing. The guards tried to stop me, but I kept

singing and kept preaching the good news to anyone

who would listen. They tried everything. They

tortured me with a tool meant to kill. Their

goal was for me to deny my faith. Stop saying

Jesus. All I could answer was, I cannot. I accept

him unto death. But your prayers carried me through.

I would tell the other prisoners. People are

praying for us. I can feel it. The name of Jesus

is medicine. And the world desperately need it.

Our brothers and sisters are still in prison.

When we eat, they have no food. When we are free,

they are in chains. We can do more. Keep on praying.

Keep on supporting. Keep on singing. Your sister

in Christ, Helen. That's an amazing video, wasn't

it? Absolutely. I thoroughly, I love watching

this. It doesn't get old for me. No, I feel convicted.

But thank you for showing us that video through

Open Doors. So we want to now get to know who

you are and what's your position at Open Doors,

if you don't mind me asking. Yeah, I'm a church

relationship manager. So my role is to spend

time with church leaders and churches just to

Tell the stories and the great things that God

is doing in the lives of persecuted believers.

I want to make sure that I tell it the way I

believe they would want us to. Oftentimes we

can tell a story and it becomes very negative

and, you know, woe is us. The thing that I found

even in a recent visit to a Southeast Asian country

was... They want us to pray for them. They want

us to remember them and they want us to tell

their story. But they very much believe in the

power of God in the midst of their trial. So,

yes, our hearts need to be moved with the urgency

of the need. to support and strengthen these

believers, but also to see God's power working

in and through their lives and even through their

death in some cases. Yeah, yeah, that's unbelievable.

Yeah, so my role is to go around and visit churches

and pastors to tell them the story, to garner

prayer support and also financial resource to

send to support our workers in the field. We

work in over 70 countries around the world right

now. And there's 8 billion people on planet Earth

right now. 2 billion of those, approximately,

are Christians. 365 million of those face extreme,

violent persecution and pressure every single

day for being followers of Jesus Christ. Wind

that down a little bit further, that's 1 in 7

Christians. on the face of the earth today are

facing that sort of pressure. That's a huge number.

It is. You know, if you were to get your church

on Sunday to stand every seventh person up and

identify this is what a picture of what persecution

is like for followers of Jesus Christ in the

world. Yeah. And so our role is to work with

the church in the West to pray. and to raise

finance to support these people as they stand

for Jesus in these countries. I see. Yeah. Oh,

wow. Well, talking about stories, I'm sure you

have a story of your own and a testimony that

has brought you so far to do what you're doing

right now. Let's talk about your early childhood

days. Did you grow up in a Christian family or

how were you introduced to this Christian faith?

Yeah, so my parents were pastors. My biological

dad, you'll understand why I called him that

in a moment. My biological dad, my mum went through

Bible college and followed the call of Jesus.

They're from Queensland here, but followed the

call of God to pastor a church in South Australia.

They did that for a few years and then felt the

call of God to plant churches and so went to

country Victoria to plant a church. While working

there, my dad, who was a panel beater by trade,

because they couldn't afford to pay them while

they did that, he would do up cars. And my mum

and myself and my older sister were in Queensland

on a holiday with my mum's family. My dad stayed

back to look after the church and he was doing

up a car. He was working under a car and the

jacks gave way and he was welding at the time

and he was crushed and burnt to death. I was

two and a half years old. So, you know, grew

up in Christian family. You know, some people

would say, well, where was God in all of that?

Again, there's some questions we will never know

this side of eternity. That's right. But my mum

packed up, moved back to Queensland with her

family and started a home. You know, a lot of

people would withdraw and just get on with life.

Yeah. She was also carrying a baby at the time,

which died. I had a little brother who died in

that process. Um... But there's an amazing testimony

in that we don't have time to go into today.

But God sustained my mum through that, and she

wanted to just sow her life back into serving

others. So she started a home for Teen Challenge,

a discipleship home for women. Wow. Who were

coming out of either abusive situations, alcohol

and drug dependency, or prostitution. And she

would work with Teen Challenge workers in our

home. And so I was about four or five at the

time, and I was the man of the house. And we

had sometimes up to 12 of us living in a home.

I remember one house we were living in, we only

had one bath, no shower. And one of the rules

was living in our house that everybody had to

go to church on Sunday. And so getting all these

people ready for church with a bath. But during

that time, my mum met a guy who was volunteering

in a man's facility around the corner. same sort

of home. And that happened to be a guy named

Gary Swenson. And there must have been a Barry

White record playing at the time and they saw

each other across a room. And he chose to ask

my mum to marry him. And that was a big deal

because he was, and he wouldn't mind me saying

this, he was nine years younger than my mum.

Yeah, wow. He was only 19 at the time, she was

28. Really? A widow with two children. Yeah.

He was taking on a five -year -old boy and a

seven -year -old daughter. Yeah. And they got

married. Oh, wow. And out of that, they continued

to run the girls' home for a while and then took

on a church and pastored a church over on the

north side of Brisbane, an Assemblies of God

church, and did that for the next 19 and a half

years. And that's how I grew up as a pastor's

kid. Two dads, both pastors. And I don't call

my dad my stepdad only to explain who he is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I recently was able to

share on Father's Day about both of my dads,

my biological dad and the DNA that I've received

from him and the spiritual DNA I received from

him. But then also honour my dad now, Gary, because

he didn't only choose my mum. He chose us. That's

right. And it's a bit of a picture of what Christ's

done for us. He says, you didn't choose me, I

chose you. So that's my upbringing and my Christian

faith. Even though I was made to go to church,

I wasn't interested until I was probably about

15. I used to sit there and get the look from

my mum. I knew I was in trouble when I got home.

What an incredible heritage. and privilege that

I've had to be raised in the church. Yeah, what

an incredible story. I think to look at the choice

your mother made, do I give up on life or everything,

which is a very common choice. But yeah, to actually

go on with the things of God and some people

want to blame someone. What an incredible woman.

Yeah. She is actually my hero of faith. Yeah,

I could totally understand. People say, oh, who's

your faith hero? And they expect you to say somebody

out of the Bible. Yeah. It's my mum. Yeah, totally.

You know, because the baby that she was carrying

when my dad died, the thing that she was so upset

about at the time was that he would never get

to see this child. Yeah. And it was born a boy.

My dad's name was David, so she named him David,

even though he was stillborn. Yeah. And she had

a dream. some will say a vision, dream, whatever,

from God when they had a bit of a memorial service

for him, but because of everything she'd been

through, the doctors basically sedated her and

said, you know, you probably shouldn't go, but

while this was happening, she had this dream

of her standing one side of the cross with this

baby in her arms. Jesus standing at the foot

of the cross and her husband, my dad, David,

standing the other side of the cross. And Jesus

says to her in this dream, he will raise, my

dad will raise his namesake. Now, I don't even

know if that's theologically sound. But she handed

little David to Jesus. He walked to the foot

of the cross and handed him to my dad. And he

held him the other side of the cross. That just

gave her a peace in the midst of that to keep

going. There were times, no doubt, that she felt

like, and she's told us, that there were times

she thought, oh, it'd just be easier to end it

all. But she said, I can't do that because of

God's call on my life and because of the children

that I have here to raise. That's unbelievable.

And so, you know, and you don't know, I mean,

for all of us. Three of us sitting here, the

people that are listening today, we don't know

the power of even a text message we send to somebody

to encourage them. True. Or telling one part

of our story that to us might even seem a story

of brokenness, but we're still going. Yeah. My

mum's story is one of brokenness, that God's

power has been made perfect in her weakness.

Exactly right. There's been lives transformed

through that testimony. Yeah, I could imagine.

Yeah, so she's my hero of faith. Yeah. And, you

know, I hope that I can be that strong in the

adversity that I have faced and will face. Yeah.

Because, you know, the Bible doesn't promise

we won't. No, no, that's right. Yeah, exactly

right. And the more I drill down into the persecution

that Christians face. I realise there's a whole

side of the gospel that often is overlooked.

Our prayer life often is more about... You know,

rubbing the lamp. God, I'm rubbing the lamp.

Give me three wishes. And if he somehow does

what we ask, then our faith is strong. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, no. But, you know, I guess we'd call

that not rubbing the lamp faith, but we'd call

that mountain moving faith. Yeah. But then there's

this whole other end of faith, which is called

enduring faith, when we don't yet see what we

believe, but we still believe. Exactly. And,

you know, my mum... believes in a God who heals

and protects and all these things. Yet in the

midst of that, my dad passed away. But she still

believes in a God who heals, protects, has a

destiny for our life. And so do I. Yeah, amazing.

And I may not see what I believe sometimes, but

I still believe because what's the other option?

Well, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly right.

For myself growing up in church, to go on to

our next part, I grew up in church just like

yourself. I had parents that made the choice

to follow Christ. And what a blessing that is

for me. I've shared it from the pulpit and on

other podcasts as well. So I reap the benefits

of their choices, just like you've experienced

yourself. In saying that, growing up in church,

you don't always appreciate church. Maybe it's

not so much appreciation, but maybe you're...

Maybe don't fully understand. I guess as a child

and a teenager, it's, you know, you're a bit

silly or whatever it might be. That was definitely,

for me, I just couldn't understand it. But I

remember at 17 or 13 years of age, I experienced

God when I really felt to give my life to Christ.

Didn't really follow on from that. But when I

was 17, there was sort of something cemented

in my life where I'm like, I'm not turning back

from this. Did you ever have any of those experiences

in your life? Do you remember that point where...

Yeah, I think I had multiple times. God's very

gracious. He comes and reveals himself to us.

We're so moved, we'll never be the same again.

And then we're the same again in two weeks' time.

Yeah, see, that's what happens. But for me, I

guess the best way I could put it was being a

pastor's kid, I had religion. For me, it was

a set of rules I had to follow because mum and

dad told me to. And I hadn't yet experienced

this real relationship with God myself. So one

thing I never wanted to do was be a pastor. I

grew up in the church thinking, well, yeah, dad's

a pastor. I don't want to be that. I want to

be a millionaire. But I think there were multiple

times, again, where God... showed himself real

to me. I think the first time I ever responded

to an appeal to give your heart to Jesus, the

best way I could explain it at that time was

probably five at a kids' camp. I remember it

because I remember going in the front and crying.

Something very real I felt I didn't understand.

And then, you know, having been in church and

having pastors come and preach and I probably

responded at different times in services, but

I was about the same age, mate, probably about

17. where I decided this has got to be more than

just a religious habit for me. There's something

my parents have modelled to me that is more than

just coming to church on a Sunday. And I think

it was when I realised that becoming a Christian

is more than just getting a ticket to heaven,

making sure I don't go to hell. It's understanding

that the verse where it says, if you confess

with your mouth, the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe

in your heart that God raised him from the dead,

you'll be saved. So I had the belief that God

raised him from the dead, but I hadn't made him

the Lord Jesus Christ, which is making him the

boss. I was happy to have him as my saviour,

but not my boss. Save me, but don't tell me what

to do. And when I finally got it at about 17,

that hey, if I submit my life to Christ, that's

real rubber meets the road relationship with

him. that's real Christianity. Absolutely. And

that's where I think the power comes to living.

It's an upside -down faith. Yes. It's just, you

know, I mean, I still struggle with being a Christian,

I'm honest. Like, when I say not the belief side

of things, the practice. Yeah. When someone does

me wrong, I'm supposed to bless them. And I want

to bless them sometimes with a brick. You know,

I still struggle with those flesh things, you

know. Yeah, yeah. But then I hear the stories

of persecuted people who have gone through absolute

hell on earth. Yeah. I met some here in Logan

Home recently, and I'm not going to say where

because I don't want to identify them, but they

went through absolute hell on earth where a family

member was macheted to death and they were beaten

and abused themselves before they made their

way to Australia. And their heart's desire is

to become whole so they can go back to the country

that they were. so badly persecuted in to share

the love of Jesus with the people who persecuted

them. That's unreal. I've had some bad things

happen to me in the last five years in my own

city. I see those people now. And, you know,

I know this is being recorded, but I don't mind

saying I'd love to go and sometimes take revenge.

Yeah. I have to fight those feelings. That's

what Christianity is really, you know, the practice

of it. This upside down faith. Yeah. To become

rich, you must give. Yeah. You know, to be forgiven,

you must first forgive. Yeah. And so, you know,

that's probably 17, I started to realise that

and work out how to live that out every day.

I mean, we look at the life of Christ. We sort

of want to be like Jesus, walk around miracles,

preach amazing sermons. and all this sort of

stuff. But we quite often fail to see of how

surrendered he was to the will of God. I mean,

he was in the garden saying, Lord, basically,

I don't want to do this, right? Basically, yet

he still did it. And so I think if everyone's

open and honest about their Christian walk, there's

always going to be something we're trying to

overcome. Always. Until the day we die, there

will always be something that we will try and

overcome. My wife was heavily persecuted at her

workplace. And one thing, it doesn't make sense.

We're like, why? This does not make sense. It

hasn't done anything wrong. Why is someone after

her so bad? And yeah, there was... An absence

of love, I can tell you that much. And then it's

like, okay, well, this is where I'm really at

right now. It's such a real thing. And to try

and even think of speaking well of that person,

it's like, nah, I don't want to. It's a real

thing. But there's such freedom in surrender.

We talk about grace. If we want to experience

grace, well, that comes down to, Lord, all right,

this isn't about me. or how I feel. This is about

your will, your word, what your word says for

my life. And we saw a miracle take place with

a work situation. But I really believe it first

came to us just being able to... all right, well,

we're not going to live in the flesh in this

situation. Lord, if you're going to fix it, we

at least have to be obedient to a few things

you want us to do. But upside down faith. You

know what I mean? Like, oh, it's hard sometimes.

Yeah, and I think, you know, we do everything

because we're so trained transactionally. If

I do this, you'll do this. Yeah, true. God's

transaction with us, if we want to make it sound

really bad as a transaction, but he's not transactional.

He's relational. Yeah. So he gave his son that

whoever would believe in him would have everlasting

life, right? But he did it even if we didn't

respond. Yeah. It wasn't, I'll do this for you

as long as you do this for me. Yeah. And if we

can love people, even if they never love us back,

I often think to myself, and I used to meet with

pastors a lot in my role in council and even

when I was running the church not far from here,

and... Often our focus was how do we reach people

in our community and would we love them even

if they didn't come to our church? Would we serve

them even if they didn't come to our church?

Because to me, that's what Jesus did. He loved

and served people. God loved and served us by

giving his son, even though he knew we're not

even going to take up our side of it. That's

right. And I think that's the power of even the

message of a lot of the persecuted believers

that I hear their stories. They're loving people

that may never find faith in Christ, but they're

prepared to do that. Yeah. And even if it costs

them their life, they're prepared to do that,

which is a picture of who Jesus is. He willingly

went to the cross. He was never guaranteed of

any of us. No. No, that's wrong. Receiving that

gift from him. Yeah, while we were still sinners,

Christ died for us. He didn't wait for us to

go, yeah, okay, I'm ready now. And then, yeah,

unbelievable. Yeah, so, yeah. So, you know, back

to your original question, I know I've wavered

from it. No, it's all good. I'm the wrong person

to stay on track. I'm chasing possible. You don't

happen to be a preacher, eh? Yeah, but I mean,

for me, I was the same as you, mate. Probably

17 until I really got on board. And then by 19

years of age, I was a youth pastor at our church

and worked for the next 20 -something years in

the church. Yeah, wow. Incredible. And I take

it you've seen a lot of great things, a lot of

hardships. I mean, hardships and great things

run side by side in church. Like we've experienced

when we've gone through hardships, whether it

be in a personal situation or in a church situation,

God's always on the other side. making something

better like i just find that incredible it's

it's just amazing how that works sometimes it

might be like all right there's a hard time and

then there's a season of blessing but a lot of

the time we've seen them go at the same time

sure and it's just unbelievable like yeah sometimes

i've realized well i actually never noticed it

until i've gone through the season and then come

out of it and go, well, actually, we've actually

prospered in this area. God's really prospered

us or built this up or we've gained financial

strength or support or grown in numbers or whatever

it might be. But sometimes it wasn't until a

year after and you actually go, oh, wow, we actually

grew in this area. Like, God, thank you. That's

a great point, Gus. I think, too, like when they

run side by side. we're not naturally drawn to

look at the positive. True. Our mind is always

taken and distracted by the negative that's going

on. Yeah. And even though there's good things

happening side by side, we don't see it. Yeah.

So I think, you know, the lesson I'm taking away

from what you've dropped into my spirit right

now is, even in the midst of some of the things

I'm facing in this moment, I just need to shift

my focus off the negative because there are things

running side by side with that. That'll preach,

mate. Yeah. No, that's such an amazing... I've

just been listening to you guys because it's

a lot of wisdom being talked here. And I'm just

trying to reflect in my life because for me,

for a long time, my vocabulary was, I will do

this if God does this. And that changed quickly

to, I will do this because God has done this.

Yeah, true. So that's... That's good. It's a

big change in my life that has happened. And

I see that, like how God works. And I see that

change in vocabulary. Of course, when you receive

the Holy Spirit, everything changes. But I can

see that in many other people that are persecuted.

And that change of heart that, you know, as you

say, they go to so many extent to do things for

God and they don't care. Like I've personally

experienced that. from stories my parents have

told me about people who are persecuted in india

and i'm like they've gone to you know to to a

place where they don't care about their life

but they care about what matters and that's the

word of god and and it's just truly amazing how

that kind of um attitude changes everyone children

shows people love and shows that you know jesus

is real so yeah This is a great conversation.

I'm enjoying this, but we'll have to come back

to the interview now. So you're working with

Open Doors now. But how did you get into this

position? Was it like a journey or did you always

want to do these kind of roles with Open Doors,

work with persecuted churches? No. I'd be lying

if I said yes. It would be a lot more romantic

to say, oh, yes, this has always been the desire

of my heart. But I think, you know, the thing

that I'm committed to in my life is the word

of God. And one of the things that I know is

the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord.

Yeah. I'm not saying I'm a good man, but I'm

a man who tries to be good. Yeah. And God orders

your steps and he knows what we need at certain

times. I've always had a heart as a Christian

leader. to motivate believers to look outside

themselves. When I was pastoring a church, I

think the greatest frustration for me was, even

in my own self, I would become so navel -gazing

at times, you know. We became so Sunday -centric

in our worship practices, our Christian faith.

And so for me... I was always pushing myself

and the church to be looking outside the four

walls of the church to understand that our Sunday

expression is just one part of our Christian

walk. Yeah. That led me to a different career

path and things, but I think this role found

me more than I found it. Yeah, wow. I'd been

through a season of injustice myself, which we

don't have time to talk about today. That would

be a 25 -part series for you if I was to go into

detail. I'm not joking. But some very real injustice

happened in our own family and it's been a five,

six -year journey where we still haven't found

the end of that yet. But that injustice gave

me an experience that... gave me empathy with

people who were going through injustice. Yeah,

wow. And so this job really found me at a time

where I needed the provision of God, both financially

and for a job. And it came when I wasn't, I had

another role, but this just came up at the right

time and gave me the opportunity to motivate

believers here in Australia. to look outside

themselves, and it's discipled me and helped

me put some understanding and meaning to perhaps

the injustice and persecution that I've been

through myself in the last season of my life.

Yeah, totally. Not saying that I face what our

persecuted brothers and sisters have, but it's

given me a little bit of understanding of what

they go through, and it's helped clarify some

things in my own head about my faith around Christians

and suffering. So it's just a beautiful opportunity.

Yeah, wow. That's incredible. I think I sort

of feel like you're saying how it's hit the family.

I sort of feel like I could go through a lot

if it was just me, like if I didn't have a wife

and kids. But the moment that like a persecution

starts hitting home, I think that's where I would

really, really struggle. I don't think, yeah.

I don't think I'd be able to handle it, but I

mean, by God's grace, we can go through a lot

more than we can ever. But I think the greatest

thing for especially a husband, a father, when

Satan really wants to hit home, that's heavy.

And looking at some of the people that you've

met or heard stories from open doors, these are

people that have... wives and kids and everything

like that that don't see them anymore that are

locked in jail indefinitely and it that's that's

faith on a whole new level for me personally

totally yeah yeah yeah i don't know how i'd go

with that but yeah yeah and i hope we never have

to experience it yeah but i'm also committed

to the belief that you know when when the word

says god's grace is sufficient for you and his

power is made perfect in our weakness we can't

understand right now no And hope we never have

to find out. But in the midst of those times,

I believe he gives us a gift of grace for that

moment. So we can look at people and go, you

know, like that video we watched of Helen. Yeah.

How? Yeah. But he gave her a gift of grace in

the midst of that to not only survive, but to

continue to say the name of Jesus. Wow. Continue

to share his love with the people that were torturing

her. Unbelievable. I'd be like, I'd be looking

around the room for a sharp implement. I think

I've watched too many Mission Impossible things.

But I'd be looking for a sharp implement and

show them grace of Steve. But his grace is sufficient

for us and he gives us that gift in the midst

of it. And if it comes and touches our family,

then in the midst of that, he would give that

to them as well and us. But it's tough. Yeah,

absolutely. So I like how you... How God put

you in this position because you got persecuted

in some way and you got into an organization

that helps persecution. So I'm sure you have

a lot of stories from Open Doors that you yourself

have experienced. And I would like you to share

with us some of the stories of others who've

gone through persecution. Of course, we'll be

very careful about the names and everything.

We totally understand that. But, you know, for

a lot of viewers, we just want a bit of perspective

on what goes on in the world. Because to me,

staying here and, you know, I hear about persecution,

but I don't hear... to what extent people go

through these persecutions. And I know deep down

in my heart that we're blessed to be in a country

like Australia. Yeah, definitely. But it's not

the same in other countries. No, that's right.

And you guys have 70 countries. Well, yeah, there's

70 countries that Open Doors are ministering

to through local church members on the ground

or... Christian partners and the stories we hear

back from our field workers are just heartbreaking

so right now in Nigeria which is a country that

is 46 % Christian Nigeria is 46 % Christian but

it's number 6 on the world watch list for the

most dangerous places on the planet to be a Christian

in fact The persecution is measured two ways,

through smash and squeeze. Smash is the violence

that's perpetrated. Okay. And squeeze is the

pressure that comes to your life. So like, for

example, you become a Christian in the north

of India. You put your hand up to say, I have

decided to follow Jesus. That doesn't mean...

that you'll be persecuted just for that decision.

It means that your wife and your family will

no longer have access to medical. You'll no longer

have access to education like everybody else.

You probably won't get a job. So that's the pressure

side. The violence side is off the Richter scale

in Nigeria. More people died in Nigeria for their

faith in the last 12 -month period that we know

of than the rest of the world combined. Are you

kidding me? So it's at the moment, as we speak

today in November 2024, there are 16 and a half

million displaced Christians in Nigeria living

in displacement camps because they've been run

off their land, their property. They've been

chased by Islamic militants who want to come

and take their lives. That's like two thirds

of Australia. Almost. Wow. And that's 16 .2 million

Christians. And they live in these displacement

camps. And a family of five will live in a 1

.5 by 1 .5 tent in a compound that is reasonably

safe. But there's no food. So the men generally

have to go outside of that to try and find work

and they can do a day's work and not even get

enough money to feed their family for one day.

So this is the type of persecution that people

are facing in countries that are 46 % Christian.

It just begs belief to us that you can face that

just for being a Christian. And they will come

to the door in some of these... Militant extremist

groups will actually send lists to communities

and say, we're coming to kill these people. So

they either flee and they go to these displacement

camps or they stay and fight. Or they don't even

fight sometimes. They just stay and hope that

it will work out. So that's one part of what's

going on. That's a very broad statement of something

that's going on on the ground in Nigeria. Wow.

North Korea is the most dangerous place. That's

number one. That's number one. When you combine

the smash and squeeze together. Yeah. We have

a story. It's not her real name, but Jiho, a

video. Her dad was found to have a Bible and

he's been taken and they've never seen him again.

There is hard labour camps where Christians are

taken and they may, some have been released.

There's another story of a young man who has

been taken and released on four occasions, but

he's seen over 50 of his, say, friends and family

who have lost their lives. And he's a young man.

So they're the sort of stories that we hear.

a person in Southeast Asia, communist country,

was a decorated war veteran, wasn't a believer

in Christ, but was engaged by the government

to be essentially a spy to shadow a pastor to

report back to the authorities what his movements

were so that they could come and persecute. that

minister, take him, put him in prison for a ransom

that the then church congregants would come and

pay so they could find out who the congregants

were. It's quite amazing. We see persecution

through the eyes of what it looks like to us.

I remember Easter time, our own church had four

opportunities to go to church to celebrate Easter.

And we as a family chose the one that suits us

or the ones that suited us to go. We went to

three of the four. In a lot of these countries,

they choose to go to church not knowing if they're

going to come home. But the great part in all

of this, if I can even say it that way, is the

testimonies we hear are not just the testimonies

of the persecution. but the testimonies of God's

power being made perfect in their weakness, where

God shows himself strong, where he brings healing

and wholeness to people, where they feel like

they couldn't do it on their own. So another

young man, and again, it's not his real name,

but I can share, because it's a public video,

his name in the video is Ayuba, and his family,

again, in Nigeria, were a family that had been...

earmarked to be taken out they came to get them

one day in the dark of night and so they all

fled this young man and his siblings but I think

it was his dad stayed some of the family stayed

and in the midst of that they took his father's

life and so this young man came back to his community

and basically said you know I'm not renouncing

my faith in Christ but I'm going to take revenge

on people who did this to him. And through the

generosity of people like your church and other

churches that have supported Open Doors, we've

been able to set up trauma centres. Oh, beautiful.

Because the thing is, you can find healing with

your body, but you still have triggers in your

mind. And so this young man and his siblings

were given the opportunity to go and... get regular

treatment at this trauma centre. And his testimony

is, I came here with the thought that one day

I will take revenge for my father's death. But

now I've understood the grace of God and his

forgiveness in my life. So I've laid down my

right for revenge. Wow. That's an incredible

testimony. It's a powerful story. I mean, I still

get goosebumps when I think about it. I didn't

tell it very well, but that's the sort of difference

that we can see. The generosity in prayer and

giving of finance is making in the lives of people.

Yeah. I mean, you think about your own life.

If you walk around with bitterness of something

that has been unjust in your life, that person

who has perpetrated that against you is not suffering.

No, that's right. You are. Yeah. So this young

man and his siblings have been able to get ongoing

treatment and support. So Open Doors has the

ability to do what we've always done, which we

started in 1955. Our founder, Brother Andrew,

started smuggling Bibles across the border into

Eastern Europe in his VW. Packed Bibles in the

language of the country he was going to and go

to the border. He'd pray the smuggler's prayer.

God, you've made blind eyes see, now make seeing

eyes blind. And he took tens of thousands of

Bibles across the border and gave them to people

in churches there. So we continue to give Bibles

into countries where they need them. because

the Word of God is powerful. Yeah, absolutely.

And in the hands of believers, it's just such

a strength to them. And so $20 can put a Bible

in the hands of a believer in a country in a

form that they need it. Yeah, wow. So we do that.

We provide discipleship material, training for

people to become leaders and pastors in churches.

We even run programs of persecution preparedness

training run by people who have written it, who

have been through it. on the ground so that for

people who become believers and followers of

Jesus Christ, this is what you can expect and

this is how we should respond. Wow, that's awesome.

Because us here, we think, okay, if someone comes

in, I'm going to take them out. A lot of stories

we've heard is when people have been chased by

their persecutors and they don't respond, they

don't know what to do. It's almost like they're

disarmed because they're expecting a fight and

the believers turn around and they keep saying

to them, Jesus loves you. speaking the name of

Jesus like Helen's story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

they let them go. And so persecution preparedness

training, microloans and the ability to get communities

back up and going again. Different groups, militant

groups come in and totally destroy communities

where Christians live. They'll take them away

or chase them away, burn everything to the ground.

We set up... opportunities where people can start

a business. Incredible. To make money. Because

some of them, they want to stay and share the

love of Jesus with people. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

It just blows my mind. Do you ever, because you

obviously know tons and tons of stories, do you

ever still just stop one day and just think,

do you struggle to fathom that this happens?

Yes. Because just hearing these stories now,

I'm just trying to picture people going through

this. It's like, this is almost like a movie.

Obviously, growing up in Australia, we've never

experienced, but I struggle to fathom that this

actually takes place. Well, yeah, I do too. But

I also understand why the governments don't want

this sort of stuff on the news. Yeah. Because

people don't respond in the way that... We're

taught to respond as Christians, not to take

revenge. But yeah, it blows my mind. Okay, let's

talk about a hotspot in the world right now.

What's going on in Israel, right? I'm not going

to make a political comment on that. But if you

were to talk to a lot of Christians, they think

this is the hotspot where everything is just

blowing, not literally, but it is, blowing up

in the world, right? They're not even in the

top 50. Of the world watch list. Yeah. Of persecution

for Christians. Yeah. They're not even in it.

Yeah, wow. If you look at what's going on there

and what's going on on the news and we see the

devastation that's happening both sides of that.

Yeah. And then you look at there's at least 50

other countries that it's more dangerous to be

a believer and the persecution that's going on,

that kind of gives us some sort of concept of

what we don't know. Yes, very true. What we don't

know. I mean, I heard a story, not a story, his

story the other day of a persecuted believer

who was converted from being an imam. Wow. When

his family found out, they broke his arms, his

legs and his ribs and left him to die. Unreal.

He basically lives moving every two months now.

He's planted 30 churches and he just believes

that God is with him. And this grace we were

talking about before is just on his life. And

he doesn't hate the people that have done this.

He loves them and he wants them to find what

he's found. I guess this has been the underlying

theme through the whole podcast. grace to get

us through really it just keeps popping up throughout

the whole thing and yeah i really feel for our

viewers um regardless of what you're facing god's

grace is more than enough yeah his grace is more

than enough to get it yeah sufficient it's it's

It's there. And that's important, I think, Gus,

because sometimes we hear this stuff and we think,

oh, well, I can't complain anymore. God doesn't,

my stuff right down here. God doesn't measure

it that way. No, that's true. He cares about

what you and I are going through just as much

as he cares about what's going on there. Yes.

I mean, he takes persecution personally. Yeah.

If you think about Saul on the road to Damascus,

where he was riding along and he's knocked off

his donkey onto his ass. He knocked off his donkey

onto the ground. And then Jesus appears to him.

And says, why are you persecuting me? Yeah. He'd

been persecuting believers, but Jesus takes it

personally. Exactly. So yes, he takes it personally

when people are persecuted for being followers

of Jesus Christ. Yeah. But it doesn't mean he

cares more about that than the difficulties we

find ourselves in and your viewers are finding

themselves in. Yeah, exactly. So that grace that

we've been talking about today is sufficient

for them too. Yeah. So they might be sitting

at home right now listening to this going, well,

I'm having trouble at home with my family. Well,

God cares about that too. Absolutely. And if

you just reach out to him right now, he can give

you a gift of grace. Yeah. He can do a miracle

in your situation just like we have been talking

about for our persecuted brothers and sisters.

Yeah. And I know that we have faith here to believe

for them. Yes. Just as much as we do for the

persecuted believers. And so, yeah, as much as

I'm an advocate for our persecuted brothers and

sisters in the world, I'm also an advocate for

people that are going through injustice and suffering

here. Yeah. That God's grace is sufficient for

you too. And his power can be made perfect in

your weakness today. And so we speak that over

their situation now. Amen. In Jesus' name. Yeah,

amen. That's incredible. That's incredible, yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that

was very powerful. I mean, ever since we started

this podcast, you know, we've... seen so many

like it's just been flowing the holy spirit's

helped us flow through conversations yeah yeah

it's been great so i just i i love it i love

when a podcast is you know just this real conversation

and talking about you know real situation which

the persecution is real to some people think

it's not but i assure you it's a real thing yeah

yeah but you know we're coming towards the end

of the show now but um We'll give you an opportunity

to talk to our viewers and share what's in your

heart. But where do you see yourself with Open

Doors going into the future? Well, I'd like to

think that I could connect more with churches

around Queensland and Western Australia, which

is my area of responsibility. And to share the

stories and the mission of Open Doors and get...

Or give the opportunity for churches to partner

with us. I used to feel very awkward about asking

that question because people say, oh, you're

just after money. Well, absolutely. I'm unashamed

that we need more resource to reach the 365 million

persecuted brothers and sisters in the world

to strengthen them as they stand for Jesus. And

giving is a supernatural act. Yeah, definitely.

Some people think ministry is when you stand

on a stage with a microphone in your hand. That's

one aspect. God has given us the ability to create

wealth. And if you have the wherewithal to give

and you give as unto the Lord, not because you've

heard a sad story, but you've listened to the

voice of the Holy Spirit, you're obedient to

him. Yes. then he will take care of you and he

will bless you for it. And so I would like to

think that there are more churches out there

that can partner with us. I know that you guys

as a church have done that. And I'm very thankful

for that. But just in the perspective of the

enormity of the need, there's 365 million and

I believe that we're reaching about eight, somewhere

between eight and nine million of those people

right now to strengthen them. And so that means

that we have a long way to go. But I'm believing

that God is faithful to his word and that he

will provide resource for us. But I just believe

that we will continue to grow as a ministry.

to get more momentum as we share these stories

for people to understand what's going on. And

can I say, finance is the secondary thing. I

would love to think that more people will just

take on the heart to pray. Yeah. Our persecuted

brothers and sisters have said these words in

almost every field that our team have gone to.

Please pray for us because when you pray, miracles

happen. Wow. So when we pray here, we don't see

what's going on, but there's miracles happening.

So that's how I want to engage as many people

as I can, working with Open Doors, whether that's

the leaders of churches or people who call themselves

followers of Jesus Christ, to pray. Get onto

the Open Doors website. Find out the countries

that we're working in. You've heard me say the

World Watch List a number of times. Every year

that's brought out. Go onto the website. Find

out who those countries are. Sign up for the

prayer updates. They'll send them to your phone.

And pray in your own devotional time. You might

think it's just me, but the prayer of one person.

can change a city of 100 ,000 when God moves.

And if we look at it that way, so that's, I mean,

I'll do this until God moves me somewhere else.

I'm not looking to go somewhere else, but that's

how I see us continuing to move forward. And

yeah, I just think the more times we can have

the vehicle to tell the story, the more people

are aware. That's really important. So I'm thankful

for this opportunity today. Oh, no, that's great.

So viewers, jump on the Open Doors website, read

it. Is there a donate area in there as well?

Donate if the Lord's put it on your heart. Add

Open Doors to your church prayer meeting. So

every time you meet up weekly for prayer, make

sure Open Doors is one of those prayer points.

As well, there's power when the church comes

together to pray as well. Absolutely. We had

900 churches this weekend join together for the

International Day of Prayer across Australia

and New Zealand. Isn't that cool? I can't wait

to hear the testimonies of what's happened. Yes,

yes. You know, 900 churches said we will stop

either in our Sunday service or our small groups

or our prayer meetings this week and pray for

persecuted brothers and sisters. We were aiming

for 500. 900 churches across Australia and New

Zealand. I was at a church yesterday where they

had a half -hour prayer meeting before the service.

Over 100 people came out to the prayer meeting,

and it ended up rolling into the morning service.

It went for 45 minutes. Wow. So prayer helps.

So, yeah, please, jump on. Yeah. Stop praying.

Excellent. Yeah. Great. Thank you, Steve, for

being on this show. What we like to do towards

the end of the show is give you an opportunity

to say something that's in your heart to our

viewers. You can look at the camera, you can

tell us whatever you're comfortable with and

also pray for our show and, you know, pray for

the ministry we're doing because God's blessed

us so much. Yeah. And when we started this podcast,

just as a... uh background i know some of our

viewers already know this story we um we came

up with this idea in one of the fast food chain

restaurants sitting down and and just saying

hey i think we need to do something and um it

was in my heart like both of our hearts to do

the podcast yeah and um you know we saw a lot

of like you know satan coming in the midst of

that trying to stop that from happening and we've

come so far just by the grace of god again and

through his calling to do this like um i'm just

thinking about probably maybe six or seven months

back we would have never thought we'd be doing

this right now yeah definitely and and i think

like God's really taken us to another level when

it comes to this podcast. We're so grateful to

share your vision of Open Door through our podcast.

We know it's going to reach out to many people.

Pray for us. I will. If there's anything you'd

like to say to our viewers, anything on your

heart, just go right ahead. I'll look down the

barrel. For those of you who are watching today,

thank you for taking the time to listen. to this

but i just want to reiterate that god has heard

every one of your prayers he cares about every

one of your needs and for those of you who've

been struggling in faith you've been praying

and you haven't seen what you're believing for

yet keep believing your faith is strong sometimes

we rate our faith on whether god answers our

prayer or not that's not how it works god is

hearing everything that you have prayed. He's

with you. He's closer than your breath. And I

just want to encourage you to continue on in

faith. Faith is mountain -moving faith, but it's

also enduring faith. And both of those please

God. As you continue to endure, He's with you

every step of the way. And don't give up, because

today could be the day for your miracle. I'm

going to pray with my eyes open for you right

now. God, I pray for every person that is listening

to this podcast today, watching this podcast

today, that you would give them the gift of grace

in the midst of their trial. You would give them

the gift of faith in the midst of what they're

facing right now and that you would do a supernatural

miracle. For those who need a creative miracle

in their body, I pray for healing and wholeness

now in Jesus' name. For those who need a miracle

of provision. I pray that you would show yourself

strong as Jehovah Jireh, the God who is more

than enough. And for those who are believing

for restoration of a family situation, a relationship,

God, I pray that you would be with those people.

God, you care about those loved ones even more

than they do, which is hard to understand, but

you do. And so, God, I pray you'd move in those

situations. And when you do, we'll be very careful

to give you all the praise and all the glory.

And God, we also pray for this podcast. What

an incredible vehicle, an opportunity that you

have given these two men of God. And so God,

I pray that you would continue to bless them

with great favor. You continue to bless this

podcast with great favor. It would go out to

people who need it at the right time. Sometimes

we think prophecy is for that moment, but sometimes

we can record things that are actually the word

of God when the person clicks on it and listens

to it. It's exactly. the word of God they need

at that time. So I pray for incredible provision

and opportunity and right connections as well,

that you'd bring the right people to be on this

podcast that would share a heart of faith. Lord,

as you've placed it in the hearts of these two

men, God, that this would go beyond even their

wildest prayers and expectation to be a blessing,

not only to the body of Christ, but to... the

whole community and perhaps world as we know

it. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Well, thank you,

Steve, for joining us. And thank you all for

being part of this show. We truly appreciate

your time, the support you give us, the prayers

you give us. And please don't fail to reach out

to us. You can always reach out through our email,

which definitely will be displayed. down there

or towards the end of the show but thank you

again for joining us and we look forward for

you guys to join us again on the new episode

of real talk as we conclude our episode of real

talk friday we extend our heartfelt gratitude

to all our listeners for joining us on this enlightening

journey but our journey doesn't end here join

us every friday as we continue to uncover the

real stories of real people where authenticity

intersects with spirituality in profound ways.

Together we'll navigate the complexities of life,

finding inspiration and hope in the remarkable

narrative shared within the walls of Logan City

Christian Church. Thank you for tuning in and

until next time, may your faith journey be filled

with grace, understanding and the unwavering

presence of God. Stay tuned for more Real Talk

every Friday on Real Talk Friday.