After The Message: Doin' The Most

Thank you for joining us today for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, follow us on social media at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

Hey church, I pray that you all are doing well.

I want to welcome you guys to After the Message, our first quarantine version.

My name is Keith.

If we haven't had a chance to meet, I would love to meet you and connect with you.

So please reach out to us and let us know how we can come alongside and pray for you.

Today I am joined by an incredible ensemble.

I almost want to call them a cast of characters.

Because what you have here sitting at this table are some remarkable people that I love to get a chance to do life with.

So of course, naturally, I gotta defer to my beautiful wife Megan, who's sitting next to me.

Hello.

Um, how are you?

I'm good.

You look radiant today.

Oh, thank you.

You don't look bad yourself.

Thank you.

I appreciate the compliment.

Um, I'm just trying my best to try to get a little bit of encouragement.

Um, but in addition to that, we're we're joined by my man Mike.

Pastor Mike.

So, Mike, tell us tell us a little bit about what you do here at the church.

I think it'll be good for the people to know.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, what I do here at the church is kind of oversee our operation component.

So, you know, try to make sure everything is locked down tight, you know, we don't have little loose hands anywhere.

You know, that's kind of the I love how you do it super official.

I you know, sometimes I do.

You know, I can go in and out.

It's like a chameleon.

That's that's the that's the effect I have.

Yes, absolutely.

And then and then to my right, your left, if you're when you're watching from your screen, I am joined by the incomparable, the ever so elegant, the anointed.

Not that you're not those things like that.

But but but Pastor Becca.

Tell the people about who you are, what you do at the church, and give us your top ten favorite Bible verses go.

Oh my goodness.

Um yes, my name is Pastor Becca, and I have the honor of overseeing um what we call church life, which is just like a churchy way of saying our ministry area.

So I get to oversee everything from the smallest uh members of our church, so all of our next gen ministries, to the oldest members of our church, our our care ministries, our equip uh ministries, and so yeah, if it has the word ministry in it, uh it's something that I have the privilege of overseeing.

Indeed.

So sitting at this table, essentially what we have are representation for our entire church, whether it be ministry or operations, just the way that we function, um, that's what's sitting here at the table.

And me and Megan somehow, we just try our best to smile and look good on Instagram.

That's our role, that's the best thing that we can contribute.

Um, but I'm excited that you guys are with us today because I'm excited to continue in this conversation that we had um this past Sunday.

And so if you didn't get a chance to hear the message, I want to encourage you to go back and check it out.

Um, we will be talking about some things from the message, so I think it'll help give you some context.

Um, but I want you to stay plugged in because I do think that there's some things that you're gonna hear today that's gonna be unique, but it will be in addition to what we talked about um on Sunday.

And and what we talked about on Sunday um is we talked about this topic of doing the most.

Now, now again, we we are familiar with this phrase, and for some of my older saints out there, maybe you're not, maybe you're not familiar with doing the most.

So doing the most is just simply, it's like imagine someone who writes in all caps.

Doing the most is when someone highlights, when they put an exclamation point after everything.

That's kind of like um literary examples of doing the most, but in addition to that, it's just when people just they're just over the top.

So when I when I look at when I look at Pastor Mike here, you guys may not know a lot of things about Pastor Mike, but let me give you some information about my man Mike here.

Mike, Mike, he does the most pretty much in everything that I know.

Um he does the most um with his dress code.

Let's start there.

His his obsession with um Kohan, I guess we'll go ahead and do some product placement.

We could do product placement.

We'll do product placement.

His obsession with Kohan shoes, guys, you you do the most.

Like Mike, talk to us a little about your your your Kohan obsession.

I think that Pastor Becker, he may need to sign up for the Freedom Classroom.

It could be freedom, but I just feel like, you know, you already said it.

You know, you said it on Sunday that, hey, blessed are the feet of the priest produce the gospel.

But I'm just, you know, I'm in that vein too.

So listen, I'm presenting the gospel, my feet have to be blessed.

So the Kohan game, I keep my kohans in a box, and they all stay in boxes, and they have to face me.

And when I open up the closet, I want to see them, but I have almost 40 pairs of just kohans.

Okay.

So it's it's bad.

Do you when you look when you open up your closet, is there like a choir sound that comes in?

It is like a choir sound, but the sad thing is some of them I haven't even worn in two years.

Yeah.

Well, I'm just thinking, like, at what point are you stopping?

Are you trying to get to one a week?

Like per year?

You know, I'm I'm that type I would love to be able to be like, I don't even I wear that shoe like once a month.

And you're good with that.

And that would be that would be awesome.

See, like Mike That would be awesome.

The way that I store my resources, I don't have an abundance of shoes.

That's just not the lie.

That's just not the side of the closet.

First of all, you don't have a side of the closet.

It's how the closet are in this thing together, um, for sure.

And we're not gonna even begin to talk about you, Miss Thing, who does the most.

So let me, I know we talked a little about this on Sunday, but like I literally have like laundry lists of things that I could talk about with my wife and how she does the most.

And and so one, and this is like this is like like confession, like say confession is good for the soul.

So we're gonna lean into this and we're gonna confess for a moment.

You even admit it how you do the most whenever we go out to restaurants.

Like, that's a that's a thing.

Like, I I want I want I want you to confess it, but I'm just gonna set, I want to frame this a little bit so everybody can understand the context.

Like, there's there's a there's like a strategic process by which when we go out to restaurants in order for me to function and to manage my frustration, this is how I have to protect my marriage.

Whenever Megan and I are going to a restaurant that we've never been to, I try to send her a PDF version of the menu as early as possible because it's inevitable that when we get there, she has a lot of questions, as we all understand that.

But they get into some very detailed things.

She wants to know how old the cook is.

She wants to know where the other thing is.

The type of cheese that's gonna be made.

And then after I decide all of these things that I have to figure out about the meal, I pick from three different meals.

I say, hey, which one is the favorite here?

Which one would you recommend?

And I'm telling you, it's never steered me wrong.

So even though I'm doing the most, it is efficient, and I promise you, if you're gonna eat out with me, you're gonna have the best meal ever.

I mean, I enjoy, I certainly enjoy the leftovers because there always is leftovers, but I think you misused the word efficient.

There's nothing efficient about the at all.

Um, I'm just gonna put that out there.

So y'all pray for me.

If y'all ever see that Meg and I take a picture of us eating at a restaurant, you just know that there was a lot of work that we put the meal before God on our plate in front of us.

But then also, we we have this angelic, wonderful woman right here.

You're just setting me up for the rest of the box.

Like somebody's gonna keep it in order.

Like you just you just look like you keep order.

And so, like, so in all honesty, like she is so kind, so generous.

Like, these are statements that are very rarely said about me.

I don't know why.

Um, but but for you, like you do the most with generosity to the extremes that people feel like they do the least when they're around you.

So, so like, I mean, I'm uh we were just talking about this before we even turn the cameras on.

We're just like running down a list of all the generous deeds that you have extended that makes us all feel terrible about our lives.

Like when you're on maternity leave, but yet you still sneak into the offices on on Valentine's Day, it was, right?

Yeah, and and dropped off little gifts for for for like it's it's like why are you the way that you are?

I just I love Jesus a lot.

So I just I seem to model him, and I feel like Jesus probably would have made cookies if there were you know ovens.

I mean he made fish for his friends, so on Valentine's Day you make cookies.

That makes sense, I guess.

So I just if we heard it properly, she loves Jesus, she's modeled Jesus and the rest of our heathens.

Yeah, we don't have a lot of time.

Oh no.

Oh no, oh no.

We have See, we have MMO, but I feel like the bride has way more ammo.

I don't think she does.

Well, you know, Keith is only like he's always doing the most, but we already talked about how his watches and shoes have the massive.

I know, but let's talk about the hours that you have spent in this week looking at recipes, Jeff Bonarky.

So even like the process of buying your your grill, like how long did you probably to me I just think that's like stewardship and wisdom.

Oh like I think like so.

I guess that's we have to define boundaries because for me, I just want it's an investment.

I want to make sure that whatever I get that I know that it's in for the long haul, it's gonna function for our family.

And how can you be upset with me looking at recipes so that I can better feed our family?

Who can get mad at that?

That's all I'm saying.

Like, I am just trying to figure out a way to lay out meals for my family so they can be blessed.

And I'm now being accused of doing the most.

I just can't win.

So, like, church, I need y'all to sincerely pray for me.

You're so basically you're both of your extras are balancing each other.

Yes, but it's all for the benefit of the people.

Sure.

Like, literally, as I talked about, our grill.

And listen, I just got this new grill.

In fact, I'm waiting for it to arrive.

I'm so excited about it.

Like, if if this ministry thing don't work out, I'm promising I'm opening up the product for that.

Y'all can get out.

I'm gonna open my own Instagram, a burner account.

I'm gonna be posting all types of food and all types of things.

Like, so I'm telling you, I'm I'm I'm working on it right now.

But yeah, like, but I'm immediately thinking, man, I can't make wait to make some things for our wonderful staff.

I can't wait.

Like, I even began to strategize with you because you do the most with everything else that we do.

In fact, I heard before our arrival there was like some kind of cooking competition and and you won.

Walk me through that a little bit.

Listen, we beat me in the mac and cheese, which the ancestors did not like.

My bread pudding.

I did win in the bread pudding.

No, you didn't.

Oh my god, I think I'm gonna do it.

I wanted in the bread pudding.

Uh if you guys can see this, there are people agreeing with me behind the camera.

Yeah.

Listen, so telling you.

Let me suggest them because I'm here to solve problems.

I think we need another cookie in the cook of.

Okay.

And Megan and I think we the deciding vote.

Oh, okay.

It just seems like that's great.

That means great.

That makes great.

All right, so so let's let's get serious for a moment because we could talk about food because immediately I'm thinking about probably the recipes that are on the background of my iPad right now that I'm thinking about doing the cook.

It's true, it's true.

So we we all have those tendencies, and we talked about that a little bit um this week about like doing the most, and we all have the varying areas where we love to lean in, study, research, do everything we can to get that information because we feel like it's for our betterment.

But then there's also that other side where man, do we do the most when it comes to our walk with God?

Because I think it's so easy for us to like get frustrated or get disappointed or to walk away from God so quickly.

And and one of the thoughts that we shared last week was really just like how people can have so much stamina when it comes to running from God, but so little patience when it comes to waiting on Him.

But I believe that if we could use even a portion of that same energy that we do the most in all these other areas and begin to position it in our walk with God, I think we begin to see like these profound results.

So we looked at this amazing text in my in Mark chapter two, that I think is really an example on so many levels of what it looks like when people do the most.

Like just going above and beyond, going out of their way.

And so there's a there's a couple of things that I think it's it's worth us having some conversation um and discussion around as we as we consider what does what does it look like to do the most in your faith?

So, of course, we we know the narrative in Mark 2 where it's uh it's the paralytic man, he has his four friends, and they come to this environment where Jesus is at.

Um, the room is packed, they they can't get in, and so they go to the roof, and so there's a lot of activity that happens.

But one of the things I want to pause and talk about for a moment is that moment where after the friends like tear the roof off and and they lower their friend in the presence of Jesus, there's this thought that I've just been wrestling with, like, man, this is a powerful one, where it says that Jesus sees their faith.

Which to me, I mean it really made me think.

And I shared a little bit of this on Sunday, but there's I want to hear you guys' feedback.

What it meant was I wondered what what exactly was the definition or the defining factor that made Jesus have this inner dialogue that says, Man, I see their faith.

Because if I think about it from a from a data point, from a progressive standpoint, he probably saw their faith when they went to go get their friend.

That's a data point.

They he probably saw their faith when they got there and the doors were closed or they couldn't get in, but they weren't they weren't content with that.

He probably saw their faith when they went up to the roof, he probably saw their expression of faith when they tore the roof off, and he probably saw their expression of faith when they lowered the man in front of them.

So it made me think that.

Like there's a bunch of different ways that faith can be demonstrated.

And I think a lot of times we think that it's just one expression of faith.

That's the only way that faith looks.

But I'm just I'm just reading into this a little bit, but I gotta believe that all of it was a demonstration of faith because from those guys' perspective, they didn't know what the outcome was gonna be.

So they went and got their friend.

They weren't content with the with not being able to see Jesus, they went to the roof, like everything they did was an expression of faith.

So I just want to hear from you guys like what are some ways practically we can encourage people that like this is what modern day um demonstration of faith looks like.

Because obviously, hopefully you're not tearing off anybody's roots.

Hopefully you're not going into any environments where you don't fit in.

And sometimes we do have to get creative with that.

But but let's talk a little bit about like what are some what are some modern day demonstrations of faith that we all can probably relate to?

Yeah, I mean, I would actually think, you know, immediately in that, it wasn't like that's great, but in our context today, you know, we have our we're in a pandemic right now.

So our groups, like, you know, my group, we had to stop meeting, you know, face to face.

But we knew that what we needed wasn't to just stay at home by ourselves.

Well, we knew that what we needed was to not just see each other, but to dive deep into the word.

We needed some encouragement because, you know, most of the people in my groups, they were still working, so they still had some different tensions either with co-workers or they still had different problems coming in.

They still had family members who were being sick and maybe not even sick from the virus.

So, you know, I mean, we we've been talking so much about the virus, but yet there are still some disease and issues that are going on that have not stopped.

And so these are very real issues that people are having.

So, you know, I mean, talking about the faith and pulling open the roof, you know, we made time to go, hey, we're we're gonna do this virtually.

Yeah, and we'll try any element.

I mean, this is what's been so great is whether people tried Zoom, Zoom was like the last thing we tried, because like, okay, there's the money there, is there anything we could do for free?

So, I mean, we've tried all the different things, and then we landed on something and we weren't going to stop.

Yeah, um, and we actually still haven't stopped.

So we've still continue to go through.

We ended our, technically ended our group semester.

However, we were still going through it because we just realized, no, what we need to pull from this is us diving into our word and us communicating with each other about what God is doing in and through our lives.

So it's just something that we just had to bombard, bombard the system with.

And that's what we did.

I love that.

I love that.

What about you, Becca?

What do you think are some some demonstrations of faith that we can probably encourage people with?

Because I think that's a I think that's a crucial point as you emphasize community.

Like gathering in community is a demonstration of faith.

You know, whether because sometimes you're gathering with people that you don't know and you don't know what the outcome's gonna be.

Sometimes you're you're you're some of the obstacles you gotta go through.

Should we go through Zoom?

There's money involved, but like is it an investment that's worth taking?

Like, oh, all of that that you said is an expression and demonstration of faith where I'm believing for an outcome, but I just don't see it just yet.

So that's beautiful.

But I I know that there's some other ones.

So so what do you think are some other demonstrations of faith that we could see?

Yeah, I think in general, what I love about this narrative, and even you started pointing it out of like the the data points that that they were going through of not stopping just because there there was like something that they came across that was potentially a roadblock.

And I think a lot of times for us in our demonstrations of faith, it's oh well I I'm not gonna keep praying for that because I'm not seeing change, or or man, taking that extra step is just gonna be a little bit too much.

And so I think it's the the pushing past and pushing through and recognizing what I love about this is that the their friends saw that they needed to get him as close to Jesus as possible, and I think that's what the posture that we have to take in order to continue building our faith is.

What do I need to do in order to get cl as close to Jesus as possible in this moment?

And so it's not letting those barriers become barriers to our faith that uh encountering Jesus is what what we're ultimately trying to do.

That's great.

Yeah.

So you so you hit on something that I I want to hear from you, Megan.

Like she talked about like the barriers of faith, some of the some of the obstacles and things that keep people so yeah, we realize that there are barriers, and so I'm I'm thinking back about um when we had like a sisterhood gathering and how like sometimes you know we're all gathering through Zoom and through the internet, and so you know it's a demonstration of faith for someone to show up, but then here's a here's an issue like the internet goes down or there's an issue with it, like and how you even have to persevere with that.

Well, I'm what I'm trying to help us to see is that there's always gonna have to be moments where we have to persevere, get creative, be patient, and all that stuff.

So so let's talk a little bit about that, like some of those barriers and just how we can navigate through some of it sometimes.

Yeah, there's so many barriers.

I mean, um, even though we're resourced with so much by the internet, um, you know, with you know, we have Zoom casts, you know, and then we have podcasts, and then we have you know, all these different things, but I think the barriers can be this is overwhelming, this is um too much, it's an overload, I don't see the results.

Um, and I think a lot of times some faith is the evidence of things not seen.

You know, and a lot of times we have to push past our comfort levels.

I remember, you know, some people didn't get back into the Zoom, but they you know, they didn't get to see the sisterhood because there was a blockage there.

But I'm telling you, these guys who wanted their friend to to experience freedom to see Jesus, they push past their emotions.

They leaned on each other and they leaned on Jesus to be able to, they drew closer to him.

And I think that's where freedom comes when you push past the barriers of what you feel in that moment.

Because a lot of times we're not always gonna feel like reading our Bibles, a lot of times we're not gonna feel like exhibiting true faith.

But if we truly use the model of the it's just a faith of a mustard seed, that's all you need, and Jesus can work with you with the rest.

So true.

So I I have this thought, and and I haven't I haven't vetted it theologically, so we're just having a conversation right here.

But but watch this.

But we're talking about barriers, we're talking about what we have to do to try to get into the presence of God, um, and what does it look like to dig deeper?

What does a demonstration of faith look like?

Jesus sees them, and so yet are some practical things in the context of church.

So we know that reading your word is a demonstration of faith.

We know that um we know that baptism, there's these key things that obviously we believe as a church that are that are critical to demonstrations of faith.

Giving is a demonstration of faith, even in moments where there's a lack.

But if I can back up a little bit and think about some of the barriers that that can keep us from exhibiting faith in a way that Jesus may not see it all the time, like honestly, I think it's like trust.

And and hear me when I say this.

Sometimes I think we can trust God so much in something that we stop praying about it altogether.

I think that we can get to a point where we're so content and such strong believers in the sovereignty and the power of God that we stop presencing what we're looking for because our belief is that God's just gonna do it anyway.

And so I can tell you personally, there have been moments where there have been things that I know that I should be praying for, but because my faith tells me that God's gonna work it all out, I don't even pray about it anymore because God's gonna work it all out.

He works all things together for the good.

And but what I believe is that if we take that mentality and we just believe that God's gonna work it all out, of course he is.

He's gonna work all things together.

We see that from Old Testament to New Testament, but there's still what I see in this and throughout the course of the Bible, the importance of us taking that issue and presencing it into the presence of God, regardless if we know the outcome.

So I want to talk a little bit about that.

Those moments where we can be people of faith, but sometimes we can run out of hope or we can just trust that God's gonna work it all out and we stop, we stop praying about it.

So, so am I am I crazy?

Am I wrong?

Have you ever seen moments where, even in our own lives, where like, man, I probably should be praying about this more, but I'm trusting God so much, but I'm leaning so much on trust that I stop, that I stopped praying about it, I stopped declaring it.

Um I don't know if I'm nuts, but I just know that I'm seeing this rhythm in my life.

So I've asked myself, God, can you can you see my faith in this?

Because I don't want my faith to be gone and I'm just having an expectation, but I've actually never laid it at your feet.

So I don't know, man.

What do you what do you guys think about that?

I I would say um I know for us because our ties come out of our paycheck.

Um we don't pray for God to continually be our provider.

And so a lot of times we just get paid and we don't thank him for it.

We don't continue to thank him that he is a constant provider in our lives, and I think you can almost get used to him doing that.

So when it's taken away, it's you know, it's one of those things that will affect us because you know what, we weren't in constant prayer about him being that provider, we weren't steadfast and all of that.

So I think that was one of the things that stood out to me is like constantly thanking him for that instead of just trusting that he's going to, I'm going to get a paycheck every week.

That's so true.

That's true.

I I remember, I'm not sure if you remember this, but I remember when um one of my family members had um graduated.

From medical school.

And so while he was in medical school, like he was like a person of just profound, deep prayer.

Just like, God, I need you to move in my finances.

God, I need you to help me.

I need you.

And I remember as we're sitting at his graduation, he had said to me, He's like, Man, like, I'm concerned about my faith.

And I said, Well, why?

He said, Because I don't know what my walk with God is going to look like when I don't need him anymore.

And literally what he was saying is that he's about to shift into a new space where he's going to make so much money that he doesn't have to pray for wisdom because he's just one paycheck away from doing whatever he wants to do.

And so I think that those are moments where I say, like, just because we have it, and even to your point, like, there are times where we have to pause and reflect and say, like, man, like we're we're giving.

Thank God for that.

Because we like because it's automatic, we don't see it convenient, sometimes just out of side out of mind.

But there are those moments where if we don't, if we don't pause to reflect and recognize and invite God into those moments, it can just become so automatic that we stop actually drawing closer to God as a result of it.

And so what I love about this passage is that it really does show like the diligence and the persistence that's needed in order for us to truly engage God.

But but there's another thing that that I want to hit on in here that I think is really powerful, and and that is that that moment after Jesus sees their faith, and then he makes this statement.

He says that your sins are forgiven.

Yeah.

Like that's the first thing that he addressed.

And and Pastor Becker, you and I've talked a little bit about this, and I really feel like you have like a really strong revelation around that.

So I would love to I would love to hear your insight on that because I think it's something that can help us.

Yeah, I think what is so interesting is this you know, his friends have just gone through this entire, you know, traveling to to help their friend get physically healed.

And they see the faith and they're like, this is it.

He's gonna get up and walk.

And the first thing that Jesus said is, Take heart, my son, your sins are forgiven.

I think if I was one of those friends, I'd be kind of annoyed.

Like that wasn't the point.

You know, like do you realize he's not walking?

You know, but um just the fact that man, Jesus would so much rather heal our hurt than ease our pain.

That he would much rather kill our hurt than ease our pain.

Now look real intently and incompetent.

Zoom in Zoom.

Rather than heal her.

Oh man.

It's so true.

I think we we live with so much more awareness of our pain than we do in his desire to heal us.

And the fact that ultimately we we carry things.

Um you guys talked so well about unforgiveness on Sunday, Yazira, and and I think that's something that we carry, and we we are so much more aware of the offense that we're carrying than the fact that Jesus wants us to be free from it.

And so I think the the thing that we have to take away from is recognizing, like, man, where am I living with more awareness of of the pain that I'm feeling?

Where am I living with more of an awareness of of the hurt, the offense, the things that others have done to me than the fact that Jesus, you know, it is for freedom that he set us free, like so that we wouldn't be slaves anymore.

And so I think that that's the thing is that man, the his friends could have been disappointed that that their friend got, you know, his sins forgiven before he he stepped into healing, but that Jesus looks at us and knows exactly what we need in those moments and he frees us um from the pain that we're experiencing.

He'd rather heal our hurt than ease our pain.

Come on.

Yeah.

So so Mike, that's that's a powerful thought.

It is.

Because basically, I like it as I as I think about it and just really try to flesh through it, it's like a lot of time it's our our pain is really it's it's the fruit of a of a deeper issue.

And so it's our pain point that often can cause us to come to the altar of God.

I need you to do this very specific thing when there's a there's a deeper root issue.

Yeah.

So I don't know, Mike, like share a little bit around like that because I feel like this is something that can help some of us.

Yeah, and so and like you said, it and I love how you you and Nira unpack that because um one I didn't know if y'all were even gonna go there, but you you made clear in that point that you know, some translations they may say, you know, forgive your debt or forgive you know your trespasses, because at the end of the day, like that forgiveness is huge.

Now, what is crazy about it, and when you even just talked about maybe some things in bondage and all that, um, what is crazy about when you look at it, and I was thinking about this earlier today, it just kind of sat on me, is that we can be freed, but just because you're free doesn't mean that you're not a captive.

So it's it's one of those things to where um this is why, like even when Jesus was on the cross and freedom came, he still had to go and set the captives free.

So freedom was already there.

But now, now in our own context, in our own worlds, in our own reality today, you know, we can go to church, we can we can pray the prayer of salvation, we can get freed from it, but then we might still be captive in our mind.

Now, what that actually looks like, and we can see that in the natural, I love the circus growing up, all that kind of stuff.

Um, some people don't, I'm sorry to offend you, but I love the circus, Arnold Bailey, all that.

I never did the clowns, I still don't do clowns.

I'm up for it.

And one of the things that I always was amazed by were the elephants.

And I think you had touched on it, we were just talking before we actually started today, and you had mentioned elephants.

The way that they would train them is they would shackle them up, and then they would train them in that way, and then they would release the shackles, but the elephants would not actually know that they were no longer bound to those shackles.

So, in theory, they were free, but they were still captive.

So that can happen to a lot of us today, is that in theory, we're walking in freedom, but we're still captive, which is why wounds from the past are still there, which is why that freedom is so necessary.

And so if Jesus makes mention of that first by saying, Let me provide this additional freedom to you completely, so that way you're not bound up to it, you're not held captive to it, then you can kind of move forward at that point, which is why it's so good that you know, why we have you know our freedom classes and stuff like that, because what we do know is you can be freed, but you can still be captive.

And that's a huge you know difference.

That is that is so true.

That is so true.

That's where our freedom classes are are so helpful in in taking us forward.

And we know that it's not about something that we're being freed from, it's something we're being being freed for.

That freedom isn't a process or a journey, it it's Jesus.

And so our freedom classes, we're gonna be uh it's engaging in 21 Days of Freedom by Jimmy Evans.

It's self-guided, but then we're going to have three workshops where we get to talk about what freedom looks like in the context of community.

Um, because we know that you know sin entangles us, but community helps us uh take the that entanglement off.

And so um our freedom classes are gonna be awesome as we launch those here coming up.

Yeah.

And and I think that's a that's a real key thing because I know for for me, like earlier in my faith, like you just you're you're you're here seeing these scriptures and you're hearing about this idea of of freedom.

And and Megan, you know, like our church tradition is like, you know, you hear about these things and and you just claim the name of Jesus and and and it's gonna stop.

Like you're just like, hey, you're gonna be set free and so claim these freedom things.

But but honestly, man, and there's a lot of science behind all this stuff, but just like literally when the Bible talks about renewing your mind, like it's a it's a process because there's certain behaviors and and neuropathways that have been carved that are that are very lent lean towards sin.

That's called iniquity, and and the renewing of your mind, allowing your mind to carve out new righteous pathways and neurons.

I know I'm probably losing some of y'all, but I promise you this is all factual.

But it's literally just showing you that there's a process with all that stuff and how we really can begin to have a life that matches our faith.

Um, so I think that's the thing that I love about all this stuff.

So, so Megan, I want to talk to you uh briefly just about just about forgiveness.

Because I know we were talking about that and how it brings us to a place of freedom.

And so for me, I know that um we're talking about offense, we're talking about the different journeys that we've been on, and and I remember in my upbringing, my biological father left when I was four, my stepfather came in and raised me, that's my my dad.

But I remember um do you remember when like when my when my dad had my biological dad had gotten sick and we began to reengage, um, and I and I went to go visit him, essentially on his deathbed.

I didn't know at the time.

Um, but I I had a lot of built-up unforgiveness that I that was just very hard for me to move forward.

Like, and I didn't realize that my life had come to a standstill, kind of like with this man, like paralyzed.

Like I felt like I was able to function, I felt like I was able to live life, like I didn't feel like I wasn't living, but it wasn't until I s sat in his room and I began to have a conversation.

And I and I I began to say, like, man, you know, I forgive you.

And I literally, and this is what I did, I walked through everything that I felt that I was holding against him.

Dad, you missed out on me learning how to ride a bike.

You missed out on me having my getting my license, you missed out on I know Keith Jr.

was born.

Was De Niro born at that time or no?

Uh no, I was pregnant with her.

Okay.

So um so you missed out on on the birth of my son.

Like I so I walked through all the things that I was holding against him, and at the end of it, I just said, You're forgiven.

And like literally that confession, it freed me up so much.

So now that my my biological father has now passed on, like I have complete freedom.

And I know all of us don't actually get an opportunity to do that, but Megan, I know that you've walked through seasons, whether it be um with your dad or different things, where you've put these things into practice on just how to forgive and move on.

Yeah, I think um too, like I was going through a period of time like of or forgiveness uh with my dad, um, you know, where I was not forgiving him at all.

And I I was leading table groups, I was doing all these things, I was reading my Bible and all this stuff.

And even when the Holy Spirit was prompting me to forgive him, I would not do it.

I just didn't I didn't adhere to that word.

Every time I thought about the things that I was upset about, I got angry, I got emotional, and I was the one who was actually suffering.

He had no idea I was mad at him because I didn't talk to him, I didn't have a conversation.

And one of the things that God was um telling me and showing me in those seasons is don't put expectations on people that they cannot meet.

And he couldn't meet those things.

He wasn't that person.

I literally had to accept him for who he was, just like Jesus does for us.

And so once I picked up the phone and answered it, and he apologized, like I went through a whole year without doing that, having a conversation, and he had no idea that I was upset about all these things going through my childhood.

And so after that, after I hung up that phone, I literally felt like when you're talking about shackles, I relate it to that so much because it felt like shackles came off of me.

It was like a light went off.

It everything was bright, and I said, I will never get to that point again where I get that upset and I don't talk to someone and don't communicate that and and and then forgive in that moment because there's nothing I'm gonna do that they can do or say to me that's gonna make me feel good about it anyway, because then I'm gonna think it's insincere and all those kind of things.

So I just learned that don't put expectations on people that they can't meet.

Wow.

That's so strong.

So so let's let me let's talk for practicality.

And you know, my my my goal wasn't necessarily to kind of live in this space of of forgiveness and offense, but I I think we're kind of in that that space, and I think there's grace on it right now.

Um, because I know um I even had an interaction with with a young lady this past Sunday after she heard the message and she was just trying to determine um, am I am I struggling with offense?

Like I'm trying to figure out like uh I is this unforgiveness, like literally not being able to identify it, and then not only not being able to identify it, but not even knowing what are the practical steps of moving forward.

Because I think for all of us it can be different.

Some of us have suffered just just extreme violations.

How do you how do you forgive?

Does forgiveness mean that I now give you equal access back into my life if I've been betrayed?

Is that what is that what forgiveness looks like?

And so I honestly told her, I said, you know, forgiveness obviously it it free it frees you, it allows you to move forward.

But but let's be clear forgiveness doesn't mean that everyone has equal access back to the parts that they've caused they caused damage.

So let's talk around that a little bit on how you can still exhibit forgiveness, but you can also create healthy boundaries so that way you don't find yourself in a position of of rehearsing or reenacting the very thing that you walk through.

So let's talk about that.

What are some practical things for forgiveness that can be helpful for helping people to move forward um in a healthy way?

I would honestly say like some practical maybe just this is just one practical thing is to first forgive yourself.

I I think that you have to for because oftentimes, you know, if if I hold on forgiveness for a while, I start feeling bad.

Like, like, because I know I shouldn't be doing it, you know, especially like, you know, those of us who've been in church for a long time, those who have been in ministry, like we know these things, but we harbor it because it is like that offense.

That offense gets to you, but then now it's like now you're just staying the point of being offended.

And so you just harbor onto it.

And so I think that first step is just forgiving yourself because oftentimes, you know, you still want to place blame on you.

And so that allows you to kind of get over that hump to be like, okay, you know what, whatever part I may have played in this, I forgive that.

That's so strong.

And then kind of moving on from that.

That's so strong.

That's so strong.

That's so good.

I think a lot of times people don't look inward and say, What part did I play in it?

Um it it's almost like when you have like two people who have something against each other, but everybody plays a part, whether it's you didn't say anything or you did say something.

You play a part, and so that was so good that you brought that up.

For sure.

I think too, it's so important to recognize that forgiveness is a journey and that uh it's not like a one-time thing.

I think a lot of times we we lose the grace on ourselves uh when, well, I left that at the altar, but why did this come back up?

You know, and I think that's why I think it's in Matthew 18 where Peter says, How many times do I forgive?

Seven times?

Like thinking, oh yeah, seven times.

Yeah, and then it's like 70 times seven, okay, you know, and so I think it it's it's recognizing like that it will come back up.

And so uh I was walking with a friend who she went through a divorce and and she had truly forgiven, but then when she started dating again, all these things started coming back up, and then it's like, man, I never forgave them.

No, it forgiveness is a journey, it's constant decision, it's redecisions to forgive the wrongs that somebody has has done to you.

And so I think that is part of that bound putting boundaries in place is recognizing how you're gonna have to have grace and continue taking those things to Jesus and and recognizing that that's not a bad thing.

Like the best thing we can do is spend time uh in the presence of God finding deliverance from those from those uh things that we harbor against other people.

That's that's so strong.

That's that's that's really good.

Because I I think one of the things you said, and I kind of want to wrap up with this conversation here, where we're talking about like you have to put these disciplines in place, these these things that we have to do.

And so for me that that kind of reminds me of like this small component that we had in Sunday's message where we talked about the the difference um but also the uniqueness that is found in the same coin.

In other words, like this the tension between um priorities and values, and how it's possible for us to be so driven by values, but we haven't prioritized the things we need to do in order to get the outcomes.

Right.

And so like I I find myself just processing through this quite a bit and and all that, but when I when I talk about the the journey of forgiveness and all the stuff we're talking about, I think all of us would value the things that the Bible says.

All of us value um the fruit of the spirit, right?

But then it's our discipline, that's how we actually put things into place to make sure that we are that we are actually gonna get the outcomes of what we are valuing.

So, so like to put it plain, like we have our we are statements.

That's those we are statements are a reflection of the culture that we want.

But if we actually don't put things in place to make sure that we are intentionally doing those things, we're not gonna get the outcome.

So I say it this way for the most part, you're gonna find that we can't organically get an expression of the things that we that we value.

It's going to require a lot of discipline and the things that we have to put into place.

So just real quick, when we look at these men, they they carry their friend.

That's that takes strength, that takes discipline.

They they went beyond just valuing his health, but they prioritized it so they could bring him into the presence of Jesus.

They did all these things to do all that stuff.

I I I want to encourage our our people out there that are watching us today, what are some practical things that they couldn't put into their life?

What are the what are the things they can begin to prioritize so they then they can begin to experience freedom?

So they can begin to find themselves in the presence of Jesus.

I know that there's a long list, but I just want to hear from everybody, what are some practical things we can do to begin to position ourselves in the presence of Jesus?

Well, I'll just say like for me, one of those things that was super practical for me was making sure that I had accountability.

Okay.

Um, because I can tell myself all the time, I can put it up on a board, but if I don't have somebody who I trust, a trusted accountability person, to be able to kind of hold me to whatever it is that uh because like you said, you've got those priorities, but if I don't have somebody there who I trust and who can keep me accountable to that, none of those things will actually take place.

So accountability is huge on my end of that, and just and not just anybody, it's gotta be somebody who who I am okay with calling me out on it.

Um and that I've given them that authority to do so.

Um and to be able to accept it, you know, to be able to accept, like, hey, right there, you know, or even to let let me like like like Pastor Becca said, there is a process you have to walk through it.

Um and so it's it's having that accountability um because we can't do it alone.

That's so true.

Accountability, that's good.

What do you got, Pastor Becca?

Megan, you're wrapping up, so prepare.

Um I think that's that's such a hard, like there's so many things that you could go, but I think if we really have to narrow it down, I I think just prioritizing the presence of God in your own life and and something that a girl in my group said last year that just really helped me is um you know the those moments where you're like, do I really I'd much rather just sit on the couch and watch Netflix than go read my Bible.

Wait a minute, is that not allowed?

We're all, you know.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, just there there are times, you know.

But um, I think the thing she said is when I turn off the TV and I pick up my Bible, I never finish reading my Bible and think, man, that was a waste of time.

But there are so many times that we binge watch Netflix and go, man, that was a waste of time.

What did I do?

And so it's like if for me, it's like if I can just get to that point where I recognize if I spend my time with God right now, I'm not going to regret it at the end.

That's right.

And just recognizing like if I if I spend time with God, I will never regret it.

And so prioritizing it that way is really helpful for me.

That's strong.

That is good.

That's really good.

She took mine.

She said it so well.

Um I would say prayer because a lot of times uh we need to hear the voice of God and the things that we're doing.

And if we are, if we don't spend time with him, when the voice of the enemy comes in, that's the voice that we'll listen to.

Yes.

Because our voice is not trained to hear specifically from God, and like we it leads us, the our own voices lead us in the in the wrong direction, you know.

But the voice of God will not steer us wrong, it will steer us on the right path.

And I think a lot of times we need conviction in the things that we're about to do.

And unless we are truly hearing from God on a daily basis, we know his voice, we know how he speaks to us, whether that's by the word, whether that's through someone else, um, our filter will be through our own needs and our own desires.

So yeah.

That's good.

That is great.

That's true.

I love I love that.

Like, honestly, like I think you know, the accountability, um, prioritizing the presence of God, like and and prayer is a is a huge component because Jesus says, like, you are my voice, you're my sheep, they know my voice.

And I think that's a crucial, a really crucial part.

What I'll what I'll say and what I'll encourage everybody with, because I think we're we're hearing a collection of thoughts here that that it all it's all just showing us the importance of prioritizing God.

So that the thing that I would add to that is try to create a rhythm where you have a set time.

I don't mean this in a legalistic way.

So please don't don't like, I'm not saying that there's only a certain time that you can meet with God.

But what I am saying that is if we don't create a rhythm and a pattern, what we're gonna do is we're gonna find engaging God to be a matter of convenience.

Yeah.

Okay, today I did it at six o'clock.

Okay, tomorrow I'm gonna do it at nine o'clock, and tomorrow, like, so again, there's grace if you have like fluctuations in your schedule.

But I think I personally love, I love that I wake up around 6 30 in the morning, I get up, and then by 7 o'clock, I'm on my back porch with my coffee, and that and that's like my time.

And I absolutely love it because I know that like that's a set time for me.

And if there's times where I oversleep, um, I don't beat myself up, you know what I do, Mike?

I forgive myself.

I forgive myself.

But I I get right back out there and I do it.

But it's so it's super important to have that set time because it it compels you.

Like it's the same thing with me, like going to the gym.

Back in the remember back in the day when gyms were open?

Um, like when going to the gym, like if I didn't have a set time, well, I'm gonna go to the gym when I feel like it.

Just when I feel like going to the gym.

Never have a set time.

That time actually increases my discipline and it really does help.

So I hope I hope that this really can be an encouragement for all of us.

Like, these are the small things we can do that could be an extension or an expression of doing the most.

I Really do believe because Jesus did the most for us, it's the least we can do.

Come on.

I didn't say that on Sunday, but that's a good thing.

That is good, right?

That's a good thing.

We need to put that on.

We gotta go back to Sunday's bedroom, put that on the clothes.

And do it all over again.

We're gonna read it.

You would have if the doorbell didn't ring.

The doorbell didn't ring.

You know you would have got waiting for the doorbell to ring for my grill to show up right now.

Oh well.

I'm okay with that.

Oh, watch me put the grill together.

I'm gonna start my own.

I abandoned her.

Listen, but that's hey, that's still Bible too, because we do have to not just eat the milk.

We gotta have the meat.

So we say that my meat's coming.

Say that money.

Meat's a coming.

Say that money.

I'm telling you.

A lot about feasting.

Feasting is biblical.

In fact, I've seen more about feasting in the Bible than fasting.

Come on, somebody.

Listen, we're gonna we're gonna wrap up right here because I'm getting so hungry.

But thank you guys so much for being with us.

Thank you guys for sitting down with us, man.

We're gonna keep this thing going, man.

I love you guys.

I love you guys.

Can't wait to see you all.

Grateful for you guys, and we'll see you soon.