After the Message: Work in Progress

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

Alright, we're live.

Here we go.

Well, we're not live, but like you and I are live.

Yeah, we're we're recording it live.

We're recording it live.

You're not listening to it live.

But hey, uh, this is after the message.

Uh it's pretty self-explanatory.

It's a conversation after the message.

Correct, yeah.

So uh today we have Noah Darmada.

What's up, man?

How's it going?

Good, how are you?

Doing pretty good.

Right on.

Good, dude.

Why don't you give a little bit of a rundown of who you are, what you do at Celebration.

Well, I don't want to waste too much time with that, but uh right now um I am on Staff at Celebration Church.

I work kind of in our global department.

So I'm stationed here in Orlando and working along with the team.

Um I moved here actually six years ago on August 1st, which is crazy because since then I've lived in a lot of other places and and done a lot of traveling, but um yeah, six years ago, actually almost to the day, it was seven years ago when God told me to move here.

It was about one full year before I moved here.

So uh came down here with the team and and helped with launch from day one and uh came on staff about a year and a half ago to help with some of our international church plants.

If anybody doesn't know, you know, we do have churches in France and the Netherlands, uh South Africa launching in January.

We got Zimbabwe and uh a lot of other stuff going on.

So most of my time is spent just helping those guys.

So we got some awesome pastors over there, and I just help resource them.

So I'm I'm kind of like a funnel.

Yeah, somebody needs a graphic or if somebody needs somebody's email address or to schedule a meeting, I'd pretty much do that.

So I just assist everybody else with the awesome work that they do.

Nice.

Yeah.

And you are recently engaged.

I am recently engaged and very soon to be married.

We're doing one of those like six-month minimum engagements where like if you Google it, like how long does it take to get married and plan a wedding?

Six months or more.

We're doing like five months and three weeks or something like that.

But I actually used to work for a wedding company, so to me, I feel like I've done 50, even though they weren't mine.

What did you do for them?

Everything from rolling out round tables and setting up chairs to tying the bows on the back of the chairs and putting flowers and center pieces and doing design stuff like that.

Are you serious?

I'm dead serious, man.

I feel like you've done a lot of stuff.

I've done a lot of side jobs.

Most of my life has been just uh backyard construction.

Yeah, like I don't know if people can hear it right now, but it's kind of happening outside the window.

It is happening right now.

Um this is gonna be a great this is gonna be great to test out these mics and see if they pick it up.

I don't think they are, but I think they're good mics.

Yeah.

The foam looks new.

The foam is new.

Okay, good.

I think we're good then.

Yeah, it's just a jackhammer.

Yeah, it's all good.

Yeah, it's all good.

So that's what I did most of my life uh doing spreadsheets and emailing people.

I I actually had to learn how to do I didn't know how to CC an email until like a year ago.

I didn't know what it was.

I still don't even know what it stands for, but uh carbon copy.

Oh, cool.

So old language for new technology.

Yeah, dude.

Cool.

Right on, love it.

Hey, uh I think where we should start is I need to release some information to the people.

After the message has an email address now.

So that's great.

If anybody wants to reach out, you can email atm at celebrationorl.org.

Pretty easy to remember.

That's where you get your cash.

ATM.

But it's also it stands for after the message.

So if you want to reach out to to us or if you have questions about something that we talk about or whatever, who knows?

It may even show up on the podcast next week.

So atm at celebrationorl.org.

That sounds great.

Now people can uh submit their complaints and question our theology.

Correct.

Uh, you know, Jen did a good job with the um uh Enneagram last week, but I know somebody was rolling over all night because something was off.

Everybody's got a strong opinion now, so whatever, man.

We just want to be able to uh have something for people to communicate with us, and I think it'll be a a good a good way to do it.

But yes, if you want to question our theology, you can do that too.

Bring it on.

Um so we're about to get into a new series, I think next week, neck this coming up Sunday.

I don't I don't know exactly, but so we had a little bit like in between uh a standalone message, I guess you would call it.

Yeah.

But it was super encouraging, and it was one of my favorite topics because it dealt with humanity in a sense that like the like the message title was like we're all a work in progress.

A lot of times, if especially if you've been around the church for a while, you can feel like man, I I feel like I should be further along.

You know what I mean?

Or or I feel like I feel like I'm not moving as fast and and I'm not I'm not as far down the road as I thought I would be when I first made a decision to follow Jesus.

Especially in today's culture where it's so fast paced, it's 24-7, uh, it's popular to brag about how tired you are.

So if you feel like you haven't made progress in a two to three month period, even though it's so short, it it can drive some people crazy.

Touch on that a little bit.

What do you mean like it's popular to brag about how like it's a it's like a it's like a stripe, basically, is what you're saying?

Do you you you'll you'll hear people, whether it's a Facebook status, God help us, or uh even in the lobby at church, it's like, oh, you know, how was your week?

Great.

I got everything done and I was so busy.

I put in 20 extra hours, and it's almost like a like a brag, you know, to say that you didn't sleep this week because of all the things you have going on.

Yeah.

And uh I feel like it's pretty detrimental.

I think there's a lot of science and scripture that would say that rest, we were designed for it, and I think we're supposed to operate from rest, not work for it.

So that whole idea of like living for the weekend according to scripture is a little bit backwards.

Yeah.

The week starts with rest.

And so I think uh to be countercultural would actually be scheduling rest into your week.

Yeah, as crazy as that would sound, and I know that's not for everybody, but at the same time, like yeah, I I've heard it and I know I've done it.

Yeah, I mean, the years past I valued myself based off of how busy I was and how much I got done.

I was a human doing rather than a human human being.

And uh, you know, it's something that I've had to really work on myself.

So yeah.

Yeah.

It it's so true, man.

I I I think uh Jen and I kind of touched on it last week.

We were talking about uh just because you're busy doesn't mean you're working hard, or just because you know what I mean?

If you're working hard doesn't mean that you're just always busy.

Yep.

And so it you know, to be able to a lot of success happens in the margin, you know, and and and I think that I think that rest is an intentional effort to create that margin in your life.

Absolutely.

So but yeah, I mean this week was was really encouraging um for me personally, just to just a reminder, like, hey, God's not God's not done with me yet.

Um one of the first things that that Pastor Keith touched on was um we're we're created for God's glory.

Yeah.

I've always kind of struggled with that because and not that I don't believe it, I do, but the practicality of it.

So a lot of times we'll hear people talk about like their calling or their mission or whatnot.

Ultimately we're created for God's glory.

What does that what does that look like to you?

Like what is that what have you discovered in your own life that that means for you?

Yeah, man.

Uh, I think that's a really great, great question.

I would I would agree.

Like, I've struggled with that big time.

Yeah.

I mean, like most of my life I've grew up in church.

Okay, what do I do with that?

Yeah, you know, and it like how do I how do I yeah, how do I practice that?

Yeah, well, that's me, is like the godly man.

That's me to a T.

It's like, okay, cool.

What do you want me to do?

Every single time somebody like casts vision or somebody uh shares a dream with me that they have about doing something or how they want my help to do something, I'm like, so come over tomorrow and build it.

Like I need I need action steps and like not more than four, or I get completely lost.

And so I'm very like um tasked.

Like I love boxes and I love checking the boxes.

And so when it's like, no, we are created for God's glory.

Okay, cool.

I can't even begin to articulate what that has meant until recently.

And I'm not saying I have it figured out, but in the last year, maybe last year and a year and a half, God has really walked me down a journey of uh repentance and deconstruction of a lot of my childhood theology where like you grow up, you know, I've heard thousands upon thousands of church sermons because I've been at church every Sunday, almost every single Sunday since I was about five years old.

So, what do you do with that?

Well, you construct and your brain puts together blocks, building blocks and foundations of ideas and opinions and stuff like that.

But if something is unknown for 15 years, I actually got really good at not just ignoring it, but explaining it away.

Like, oh, that's one of those Bible verses that I could never understand.

And one of the things that God's done, at least with me in the last year and a half, is He's very gently, thank God, uh asked me some tough questions and He's asked me to revisit some of those passages like that one, like we're created for God's glory.

Okay, great.

What does that look like?

And what God had to show me was it it's like what I just said it's not about being a human doing, it's about being a human being.

And the very reality that as God created the universe, we're the only things made in his image is a really big deal.

Yeah, and our free will and our right to choose is really one of those things that makes us like God in a way.

Are we ever going to be sinless?

No.

Are we perfect?

No.

Do I have the power to snap my fingers like Thanos and Marvel and make something appear or not appear?

Absolutely not.

Yeah.

That's what makes God Yahweh, right?

That's what makes him like the supreme being of the universe, is that he created it from nothing other than himself.

But I am like him, not because of my skin color or because of my gender or because of any of those things.

I am a human being made in the image.

It says in Genesis, like let us make man in our image, right?

And in our likeness.

And that likeness is often um described as that that free will, that right to choose.

So people use that ability, like God, to do horrible things, but we can also do it to do incredibly powerful things, like laying our lives down for other people.

Right.

And so I think uh made for the glory of God and in the image of the glory of God, it's not just what we do, it's very much who we are.

And it's the posture and the position of our heart to say, God, I'm gonna surrender my life back to you and do things for you and be your hands and feet to love other people.

Yeah, I think that brings God glory.

Yeah.

I really think that it does.

And it's not something that you could like write down like a checklist and say, Let's do this and do this and do this, and now I shine bright and now I am in the image of God and give God glory.

Well, we are made in the image of God and our ability to choose makes us like him.

But but when we give our lives to him and what he would do, I I mean, like I have to ask myself the question like, if Jesus was here, what would he what would he be doing?

Right.

He'd probably be empower more loving people.

He probably would.

I don't know if he would just go church hopping and spend time with all the Christians.

I don't see that in the scriptures.

Sometimes he was in the synagogue, but most of the time he was in the wilderness with people that were broken and messed up.

Yeah.

Even people that culturally he wasn't supposed to talk to, but he did.

Yeah.

So if I go and give my life to those things, does that give God glory?

I think it does.

I think I think it does.

Yeah.

One of the things that that you kind of mentioned was being image bearers meet means choice.

You know what I mean?

And and that I think that's I think that's a really great thought because a lot of times image bearers what first pops in my mind is like literally how we look.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean?

And not necessarily our characteristics.

So that's a really good point.

And it kind of ties into the the passage, one of the passages Pastor Keith brought up was, you know, without me, you can do nothing.

The vine and the branch.

Yeah.

That one, that's a tough one to swallow.

Um, because I know a lot of people who don't like Jesus who are doing stuff, sure, you know, or who aren't following him, who are it looks like they have a life just like everybody else.

What have you have you discovered anything about that passage particularly, or have you thought about that, or has that manifested itself in your life at all?

Could you ask the question in another way?

I I I get what you're coming at.

Yeah.

Just for me to formulate an answer.

What does that mean?

I can't do anything without Jesus, basically.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

I man, that's a it's tough.

Frustrating verse number two of the podcast.

Um, yeah, man.

I golly, that's just a really tough one.

It's almost like the passage that says, like, you know, um, our greatest acts of righteousness are like filthy rags.

Yeah.

Well, I hope not.

I put a lot of work into that serve day last week.

Yeah.

I sweat for a week's worth of sweat just standing there, yeah, you know, taking donations from people.

Like, is that filthy rags?

Yeah.

I don't know if that's exactly what that verse is talking about.

And and one of the things I think we have to understand is um, like, okay, I'll use you and I for example.

We have surrendered our lives to Jesus.

Yeah.

I think most people listening to this podcast would have would be able to say that they've given their life to Jesus, they go to our church, and that's why they're listening to this podcast.

Yeah.

You have been made new and you have been born again.

So the process of your heart, the stage of the sanctification that our hearts are in, are we holy in the eyes of God?

Yes, we're covered in the blood of his son, Jesus Christ.

Are my acts holy 24-7?

Absolutely not.

I'm pretty terrible.

I I fail all the time.

My thoughts are not always under control.

My words are not always under control.

If I have a bad day, I go spend money I don't have because retail therapy for me is really real.

I don't think that's your what's your go-to?

Shop.

Shopping?

Yeah.

Um, golly, man.

I really love tech.

Really?

Like, yeah, so like, but I had this like weird thing to where I'm like, I will never spend more than$30.

So I buy like headphones and they break in like three months because I bought cheaper ones.

So within the year, you could have probably bought some nice AirPods.

I should have bought AirPods a year and a half ago, but because people that wear them look like turds, I never have.

Sorry, guys, if you're wearing AirPods right now, listening to this.

Yes.

No, this this is my era.

See, this is a great example.

Like I am flawed and my words aren't always great, like calling people turds just because they have AirPods.

The reality is I can't afford AirPods, or I would probably have them already.

But if I had saved for three months and not had a bad day and bought another$25 deal of the day off of Amazon, I could have bought them already.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Yeah, I get that.

We're getting very sidetracked.

We are, but I think the good news in all of this is is kind of the point of the message was we have a creator who looks at us and sees us as something better than we do.

Amen to that.

I love that part.

Dude, when I I I said it in our staff meeting on Monday, uh, I'm my worst critic.

You know, like I I beat myself up more than anybody needs to, you know, like I I don't know what it is.

I'm just so critical about me, so about myself.

So a lot of times I can cast that characteristic upon God and say that's how God is looking at me.

But to know that to know that I am created in his image and to know that he sees more in my life, is is so comforting, man.

And I don't know if you've if you experience that same thought path of that pattern of you know kind of like not seeing yourself the way that God does.

Man, I try.

Yeah.

Some days it's easier than others, like almost everything else.

There's definitely days where um and it's so funny, you think that if it's this easy to see, I would be better at it.

But dude, the days that I don't hit snooze and I listen to a song of worship before I even go out of bed, and I walk over to my desk and I open up my Bible and I start reading through and praying, asking God questions, the rest of the day is pretty awesome.

And the days that I don't, the days that I push snooze, or the days that I uh was up too late because I had to watch one more episode of some murder mystery on Netflix or whatever it is, you know, I I I get out of that rhythm, and the thing that I say is the most important is now the fourth or fifth thing I do in the day, if at all.

And those are the days that it's hard for me to believe that God sees me the way that you just described.

He sees me through the blood of his son, he sees me for what I can be and not what I did yesterday.

But I see myself and whatever thing I did wrong in the last three days.

Yeah.

Way more than I mean, I could go do awesome stuff and people could even praise me for, like, oh, you did a great job doing XYZ.

But if I did something a week ago that I'm ashamed of, I don't see myself that way.

And this is one of the places for me personally that I have to ask God for for grace and for mercy and to help me in.

And one of the ways that I have gotten the most help, again, like everything else, is by bringing other people into that situation.

Yeah.

So there's people in my life that understand that I am my own biggest critic.

It's something that I have accepted about myself, not as an eternal truth or fact.

I can get better.

Yeah.

Right?

Like I used to not even be able to say thank you.

If somebody said I did a good job, I would say, well, you know, it could have been better.

Like I didn't even know, I was like the professional deflector of even a compliment.

But now I'm slowly growing saying, Yes, I am my own worst critic, but I don't have to be for forever.

I'm gonna get better.

And in passages like these, it's worth it.

Because man, I can't even like to actually I believe it.

My theology is there, and I'm like, okay, that verse says that, and I know what that means.

Okay, check.

But I don't feel that way.

I would love to feel that way.

And so this is actually a verse for me and an idea for me out of the Bible that I am striving towards.

I want to, I want to be better at viewing myself that way, knowing that God loves me and sees me that way.

Yeah, it's it's one of those truths that that is very hard to believe.

The the fact that if I spend eight hours at serve day, God loves me.

And if I finish that last episode and hit snooze the next day, God loves me the same way.

Uh-huh.

Exactly.

You know, and we you can get into the whole like, well, then you're just then you're just wiping away good works and whatnot.

Like that that's not what we're saying.

But I think what we're saying is grace grace is like is more like liberty and empowerment, not just license to do whatever.

Absolutely.

So did you did growing up, just real quick, um, did you grow up kind of in a home that required a lot, and if you did well, nobody really said anything, but if you did wrong, all hell broke loose and punishment and all that kind of stuff.

I mean, I I definitely was punished.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

But my dad also he also tried to do a really good job at explaining what grace was, explaining what mercy was.

You know, like there would be times where there'd be times where I would get in trouble over something, and then my dad would say, Hey, go to your room.

And so I'd go, you know, and then you're just waiting there.

Like the waitings almost work.

Like just come in and like give me the spanking and whatever.

You know what I mean?

Like, uh, and then you come in and say, Hey, I'm not gonna punish you today.

What you did was wrong, but I'm gonna show you grace today.

Oh, that's awesome.

You know what I mean?

So it kind of helped me develop that understanding of what it was.

Yeah, I bet.

So what about you?

Oh, those 20-30 minutes that felt like 20-30 days waiting for the wailing to come in through the through the door.

Yeah, I remember that very vividly.

But it's okay, I've got counseling, so it's good.

Dude, I was if I didn't get that, if I didn't get like punished for stuff like that, who knows where I would be.

Oh, same.

I'm very thankful for it.

People are like, really, that's crazy.

You can go to jail now for that.

I'm like, oh, I understand, but for me, there had to be consequence because I was very rebellious and I was gonna do what I wanted to do, even if I knew something bad was gonna happen.

But if there had been no consequence at all, it would have been bad.

But again, another rabbit trail.

Getting off track again.

Dude, God loves us.

Dude, the great thing about this podcast is we're allowed to get on rabbit trails.

And we're we're allowed to do that because uh there's no agenda.

Somebody's gonna email us.

The first email at ATM is gonna be don't spank your kids.

Yeah.

I'm mad at you guys now, but it's okay.

Please don't do that.

Please don't do that.

It's not it's not what we were saying.

We weren't advocating for anything, just sharing our past experiences.

And the reason I brought it up to finish you know the little rabbit trail is you know, I I grew up playing sports.

Um, I had to no, I was I was one of those weird homeschool kids growing up to where like literally I never was in a classroom ever.

Like my mom brought me to first grade and then walked out of the building.

And um, you know, I was in some ways kind of sheltered, but in other ways I was kind of left alone.

And so I found a lot of my worth and how well I played at sports.

So I played sports from five years old to my mid-20s competitively.

And if I did well, I was told I did well.

If I didn't, I was told that I didn't, and sometimes I would get benched or left off the team.

Same thing with same thing with my job.

I did construction really since I was about 12, 13, part-time, and then full-time since I was 18.

And if you did well, it was good.

And if you did bad, you'd get docked pay and things like that.

So I formulated in my mind a um performance-based mindset to a T.

Yeah.

To where if I did well, I was valued, and if I did not, I was devalued.

And this is completely different to where, like you said, if I go do Survey Day for eight hours and sweat through five t-shirts, God loves me.

And if I hit snooze and don't read my word and don't speak well to people the next day, he loves me all the same.

Because when we're unfaithful, he's still found faithful because he can't deny himself, as the Bible says.

And so it's one of those things to where it's like a biblical truth that I have to fight and contend to believe for myself.

I believe it for everyone else.

It's so easy for me to believe that God loves you the same every day, no matter what you do.

Yeah, it's hard for me to do it myself, if that makes sense.

It does.

I I think the follow-up question then is like for us is okay, if God loves me no matter what I do, then what's the point of doing anything that I don't want to do?

You know?

That's God's glory, I guess.

Yeah, that's a huge conversation.

Yeah, that would be a whole podcast series if you if if if you wanted to talk about that.

I mean, we could, I guess.

We could.

Um one one thing Pastor Key said is is God's will is used to manifest his will.

God's will is used to manifest his will in our lives.

Have you ever been on one of those like merry-go-round rides?

Not like a merry-go-round, those go slow and up and down on like ponies and stuff, but like the teacup rides at Disney World.

Uh where you're just being spun around while being spun around.

Yeah.

And it just is so disorienting, and you don't even have the ability to get up and get off.

There's no ability to get up and to get off.

Yeah.

And uh, I think it kind of feels like that in life sometimes.

Being on the potter's wheel, being on the wheel of God's will, a lot of W's there, yeah, is sometimes disorienting, sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes painful.

And the there's a sense that you can't even escape it.

Sometimes life hits us, whether it's a bad medical report or losing a job or a relationship gone wrong or bad financial times or anything like that, and it can be an incredibly painful experience to be on that spinning wheel that you can't get off of.

Yeah.

And on top of that, there's the potter's hands, as described in the passage, squeezing you.

You know, he's shaping and he's molding and he's using tools to shave away imperfections, and there's a cutting and there's a shaping and a squeezing and a removing of things that shouldn't be there, and it sucks sometimes.

I mean, it really does, and it can be can be awful.

And so, as he broke that down, I've heard a hundred sermons about the potter and the clay, and God's God is the potter and you are the clay, and he's making you into what he wants.

The end, let's stand.

And it just ends right there.

And I thought Pastor Keith did one of the best jobs on these passages, also using a passage in Jeremiah.

Everybody else uses the parables and they use all these other areas, but he's Jeremiah, and it was such a cool passage, especially in the part where for God to show Jeremiah, he had to go somewhere else.

It wasn't that God was like, Hey, I'm just gonna give you this download.

He needed to go and physically see something because God wanted him to describe it well when he wrote it.

That there's a potter, there's a clay, there's a wheel, there's water, there's all these other components, and that the intricacy of a human life, the different variables of a human's life are so varying.

It is different for everybody, but there is a creator and there are hands on our lives.

God is intricately a part of our lives and he does care.

Yeah, I a couple things from that.

First of all, the most recent thing you said was is God is involved in our lives, and that's something that you can easily forget for whatever reason, whether it be distraction or you know, ignorance or whatnot.

But God is definitely definitely involved and hands-on.

Um but the beginning of what you were talking about, it just sounds painful, man.

Yeah, you know, and and and I don't know where this thought process comes from in Christianity where everything is just hunky-dory, yeah, you know, and and I and I don't know how that narrative got started because you know, you know, Jesus talks about like, hey, if you decide to follow me, like uh it's a guarantee that you're gonna face trouble, you know, and you're and you're gonna face you're gonna face uh even possibly persecution for following me.

So why do you think that narrative is is in our walk or is in our theology, so to speak?

Sure.

The whole like, hey, how you doing, blessed and highly favored?

Yeah, yeah.

That type of a life that like I think social media made it even worse.

We live in a culture that is highly competitive, and now all we see is everybody's successes.

Man, I just feel like that has created a dynamic within the church.

Uh I'll just speak about the church in America because it's where we are and it's what we know the best.

And um, it's not healthy.

I don't think it's biblical.

I mean, you look at all these passages of like, you know, a faithful are the wounds of a friend, but nobody calls anybody out.

Yeah.

And if you do get called out, you just distance yourself from that person because they hurt you.

Right.

Right?

Um as sharp as iron sharpens iron.

Dude, I mean, where did we get how did we get to a place to where uh real Christian relationships became so fake?

And I and I don't use that word lightly.

I know it's I'm not trying to say that the church is fake and everybody's fake and stuff.

So, you know, don't hear what I'm not saying, but at the same time, it's like it's there's such a facade.

There's such a like everybody puts on their face for an hour and 35 minutes plus 10 in the lobby, and then they go home and they go into homes that are broken and messed up, and and uh, and then we portray something different on social media and we portray something different in our conversations, and everything's gotta be good because and I think that came from some past church history where if things weren't okay, it's because your faith wasn't okay.

And that's just not in the Bible.

Like if you're suffering, God's punishing you, or if you're uh if you have fear, you lack faith, and and and if you know, if you weren't healed, it's because you didn't pray right, and all these false ideas and false narratives about performance-based Christianity.

And it's just not that way, like you already mentioned, like we're promised to suffer because even Christ suffered, so we will too.

But if we if there's something in our life that is lacking or missing, then it's because something in our Christian life is lacking Christian values or things like that, and it's wrong.

And so I can't tell you like on this day and at that time, and I don't have it figured out in any way, but just as we're talking out loud and processing through it, like, yeah, I I mean I I'm even thinking about like the church I grew up in, and there was definitely this idea that like if if if there was anything wrong in the home at all, God wasn't in your home or everything perfect.

Yeah, and so what do you do?

You learn how to portray that everything is perfect, therefore God in your life is perfect, and now it's rampant, it's it's most of the church.

Yeah, it's it's a tough subject, especially if you're talking about any sort of witness or outreach.

Hey, come follow Jesus, by the way, your life might suck even more.

Yeah.

I mean it's it's one of the things that if if you ultimately want the meaning of of life in a sense, like if you ultimately want the ultimate joy, peace, you have to have a relationship with God.

Yeah, you have to be able to practice his presence in a sense.

Sure.

And sometimes practicing God's presence and sometimes a relationship is difficult.

And sometimes there, like Pastor Keith was talking about, there's blemishes in your life that God needs to work out.

Yeah.

You know, he was talking about the water analogy of how there sometimes there's things in the clay that need to be washed out with the water, and sometimes things need to be remolded.

You know what I mean?

Like you you maybe fall or fall apart a crack or whatnot, and you need to be remolded, and and that's that's tough, man.

Yeah, I was in um I was I was a 4-H kid.

So what's 4-H?

4 H is like this Is that like the farm thing or what?

Yeah, the farm thing, yeah.

Where like uh little homeschool kids out in the country like me can ride a horse and plant a garden and make clay stuff.

And so actually, when I was like nine, ten years old, I think, I actually went to this place and we did clay stuff and we did the whole process.

We pulled the clay apart and we put it on a wheel, and you step on the pedal and it spins the wheel and you shaped it and all that type of stuff.

It looked horrendous.

You wouldn't know what you were looking at.

It certainly wasn't the vase of for flowers I wanted to make for my mom.

But what did it end up being?

Oh, I don't know.

I mean, it probably looked like something out of a horror movie.

I mean it looked very uh looked like an organ gone wrong.

Okay.

That sounds really weird.

Not much of a visual there for anybody listening, but it just looked terrible.

It's supposed to look like a vase.

Yeah.

A cylinder at the bottom, narrower at the neck, and then open up for the pretty flowers and all that type of stuff, and it didn't look like that at all.

But one of the things I have forgotten, I mean, that was 20 years ago now, is if I did take my hands off and continue to spin the wheel, it does fly apart.

You have to keep your hands on it, right?

You keep one hand on as you add water and things like that, and there's tools to scrape things away and to reshape it and stuff, and and and and you know, in the Bible, you know, we know that the Bible was written for us, but it was not written to us, and so you know, there the Bible uses examples of old world stuff, but they're still great visuals, sure, right?

Yeah, I mean, if the Bible was being written today, they might talk about computer programming and how these numbers go here and do the same way that God, you know, and stuff like that.

But he used a potter and clay and a wheel and all that stuff very specifically because it can apply to all the areas of our life.

And I thought, man, I thought Pastor Keith did such an incredible job breaking that down and just like uh giving example of going into that, those verses of Jeremiah and going into those passages and really being like, this is something that we're all experiencing.

God is a creator, but he does have his hands on your life, and it's good that he does because as soon as his hands and his grace come off, when we reject him, when we don't want his ways, when we don't want his will, when we don't want his wheel, like when we do when we want to get off and we want him to stop touching stuff, right?

Yeah, which is the way I lived my life before Christ.

Yeah, man, I'll tell you what, like it it doesn't go well.

Yeah, things fly apart and you're left on your own, but you are in in some way a lump of clay.

Yeah, at least if things don't seem right, or I mean, what's his quote?

Just because it's not comfortable doesn't mean it's not God.

Yeah.

So at least if your life isn't comfortable as a Christian, you still have that hope, you still have that faith that all right, God, ultimately, like you're in control, man.

Like, I don't I don't know what's happening, I don't know why it's happening.

But if you're if you don't have that hope in Jesus, what's the point?

You know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely.

There there isn't one.

Pastor Keith E goes, uh, we live in a culture that wants microwave solutions for crock pot problems.

And it's so true.

I mean, everything is instant.

You can have cars delivered to your house, homes come pre-built, rocket mortgage.

I mean, everything is like fast, instant, Uber free delivery right now.

Like, there's all these things that are like instant gratification, instant pleasure, and then we have lives that are 60 plus years long most of the time.

And there's a process and there's a sanctification process as a believer that where God is working on us, and it's good that He does because I don't want to be who I was five years ago, and in five years I don't want to be who I am right now.

Sure.

But I cannot listen to something or read something or apply for something and study something, and in a snap, it's just the way that I want it to be.

It is a process and it's a slower process, and and again, this clay analogy is so good because there's stages and there's processes, and God sees something going back to what you talked about in the beginning, where he loves me and he sees me through the blood of his son, but he also sees me and who he sees me becoming.

Yeah, he does not base everything off of who I am in this moment, same way he doesn't base who I am off of my failures of yesterday.

Yeah, he's looking forward at who I can be as a son or a daughter, right?

Submitted to him.

So as we sit on that wheel and submit ourselves to his will, he shapes and molds and creates us into what he wants us to be, which once the shape is there, the worst part comes.

And this is the part that my small group talked about on Monday night for almost the whole group was the fire.

Yeah, it's the heat process.

So we all want to be used by God, like really bad.

Like in my heart, I just I just want to be used by God.

I want to be a part of what he's doing.

You want your life to count, you want it to mean something.

Yeah, I mean, I still want to go get my favorite coffees, I still want to go on vacations.

My my favorite hobbies getting outdoors, right?

When I go and do those things, God's not like, oh, I wish you were doing another serve day.

Like we're we're made to he enjoys when we enjoy.

And there's a lot of verses that talk about that.

I used to have conviction about if I did something for myself, God was mad at me, and that was so off, you know.

But we want our lives to count, like you said, and and that process of becoming who he sees us being, that deeper purpose, like our first purpose is to love God with all our heart, heart, soul, mind, and strength.

And you can do that any age, any race, any gender, any profession, any educational background from any place in the world.

You can love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength right where you're at.

You don't need anything else to do that.

However, we have assignments and and sub-purposes, and what God created me to do and the things he wants me to get done while I'm here, as I grow and enjoy him and become more like him.

Well, that is that clay process.

And and and those clay vessels are being created with a specific purpose to hold or to pour or to gather or to carry, but it has to go through that heating process of the open flame to be suitable and strong enough to bear that weight and that purpose.

Yeah.

Yeah, and kind of kind of what you mentioned, I have struggled with that same that same thought as like, man, if I'm not doing something quote unquote for God, or if I'm doing something for myself, or if I'm enjoying life, sure, then God's not pleased with that, or it doesn't count, you know what I mean?

And I kind of had a a mini revelation, so to speak.

Man, as long as as long as I am aware of God's presence, as long as I am malleable, you know, as long as I'm able to be formed in whatever I'm doing, I think God that's God's glory right there.

Kind of like what we talked about at the beginning.

Like, as long as you're willing to be used by God, even if you are outdoing your hobby, if you're willing to pivot because the voice of God says that you need to do something in that moment, sure.

I think you're good, man.

I don't know.

I mean, there's even stories of Jesus who's on his way to go do one thing and he was led to do something different.

Right.

Jesus has the ability to pivot for the purposes of God.

We have to.

Yeah.

But, like you said, if we're on our way to the beach when we encounter somebody in need and we stop what we're doing and we're 20 minutes late because we had a conversation and prayed for and bought somebody some food, amen.

That's great.

Yeah.

It's not that God was like, okay, now go find somebody else.

I mean he he put that person in our path, and it's all hypothetical, but I agree with you.

I think that it's being open and willing.

It's the posture of the heart more than the perfection of our actions.

I think the posture of our heart, if God says that man looks at the outward, but God judges the heart, then that would have to include my life as well.

Yeah.

That he's looking at the posture of my heart more than how many minutes a day I serve somebody else.

If that makes sense.

It does make sense.

So and it's a it's good to think about, man, because everything else in our life is performance-based.

Think about it.

I mean, your job, school, uh, sometimes even your like we were talking about with our family life, like as as kids and stuff, it's all based on our performance.

If you do this, then this happens.

Sure.

You know, and it and if you if you meet this goal, then this good thing happens, or what whatever it may be.

So it's hard to fathom and and it's hard to accept that what I need has been done for me.

Sure.

You know, and that's that's the gospel right there, man.

It really is.

Pastor Keith uh talked about you know, three things, of course.

I mean, it's a it's a message.

Three three points in a poem, as my dad used to say, is a good is a good sermon.

But three things be still, uh, be patient, and be productive.

Um use one of my favorite verses, man, uh be still and know that I'm God.

And and once I once I was able to accept that as a Christian, I had a shift in the way that I the way that I live my life.

And not in a not in a way to be passive, but in a way to rest even rest even in work.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, can you expand on that a little bit as far as like not being passive, but understanding that I didn't have to be doing something for God to be pleased with me?

Is that what you're referring to?

Yeah, and so again, the culture of work for it, or the culture that we that we live in, like we mentioned earlier too, about being busy in order to feel to feel like we're being fulfilled.

Anything that's worth anything in my life has been fulfilled because of Jesus.

Yeah.

And so for me to be able to rest in that, change my change my perspective and my outlook on what my responsibility is.

Um I think a lot of times too, man, we we want God to to work to work in us, and we don't like the way that He's doing it.

So we want to put it in our own hands and try and do it the way, hey God, I want it this way, and here's the outcome I want, and here's how I want it done.

So it's almost like the clay saying, Okay, I'm gonna mold myself.

Like that, it's it doesn't work that way.

You know what I mean?

So I think that's what it means for me.

Like, all right, be still, even in even in the discomfort, or even in the comfort, you know, praise God, like sure, life's good.

Do you feel like um you you you know, past you wanted to do all these things for God, right?

And so you can only do one thing at a time.

And as soon as you let that go a little bit, it's not that you're doing less stuff for God, it's almost as though you're doing more because what we can do, he can multiply.

Sure.

The difference is the power of obedience.

Yeah, and so I I relate to you completely, man, to where it's like I just want to serve God, and I was at every function doing everything I could.

I am putting less effort in doing it because my motivation for doing it was broken.

Right now I can walk in it in the grace of God with joy, and it's multiplied.

And it's not because I got better at doing anything, but the posture of my heart was a little bit more surrender to God.

I love that you love me, and if you will let me, I would I I want to be a part of this instead of doing it without talking to him, doing stuff for God instead of doing stuff with God is the is the relation here.

Yeah.

And sorry, what I think you hit on something powerful there, and it's it's when it's with God that's when you actually see the true power.

Like, yeah, God can do use anything and for his glory.

I mean, you know, Romans God works all things together to good for those that love him.

However, if you want to see true power in what you're doing.

Uh go ahead and invite God to be a part of it instead of just trying to do it in your own strength.

You know what I mean?

Here's another interesting idea about the clay is some clays are terrible for for to work with.

Some, whether it's full of dirt or whether it's just really hard, right?

Not malleable.

Great word you used earlier.

I don't know if I've ever heard somebody say that like in a sentence before.

You're welcome.

Um, you know, but it's it's uh God is working and he's going to shape.

Like you said, we can't choose what shape we're gonna be in, but I can do my best to not be hard.

I can do my best to not be stubborn.

Yeah, I want to be, for lack of better words and analogies, I want to be good clay.

I want to be clay that is shapable, and I want to be clay that is pure, I want to be clay that is ready for the potter's hands to make what he saw me to be so that I can quickly get there.

Yeah.

Because, like what we were saying earlier, like people want stuff fast.

Fastest thing you can do is surrender.

You want to see God's mighty, powerful work in your life with all your faults and all of your broken background, surrender.

Yeah, surrender and let him work in you.

And and and you know, when stuff comes up, walk through it with people, with community, with family, and we have all those things here at Celebration, which is I've been at Celebration Church for 16 years.

And one of the biggest reasons I've been here since I was 13 years old, like the week I turned 13 was the first time I visited.

Um, is because I've never lacked friends while being at Celebration Church.

Not a long time.

I've never gone through anything by myself.

Yeah, even when I tried, there was at least one person that said, I didn't see you last week, what's up?

Let's go get coffee.

For that's 16 years of sometimes a huge community, and in seasons like this where we're not even seeing each other, I can still text you and hang out with you.

There's been other guys that you know I've been trying to meet up with.

We can zoom and things like that, but I've never liked community.

Yeah, and so I think if we want to see God work in our lives, like most people listening to this message, they are searching after God, they want to be used by Him.

I would just say surrender.

Yeah, let go.

That's good, man.

You know, we'd be uh we'd be kind of ashamed of ourselves if we didn't talk about uh baseball season.

Okay, so is this off the record or no?

We're still recording.

I mean, we may have lost just like the majority of our audience, but whatever.

At least 50% just pushed end and they moved on.

Yeah, it's fine because uh I'm hosting the podcast.

Sure.

And I actually have someone on here who enjoys baseball.

I w I was watching uh some summer camp game the other day.

Yeah, as sad as it was, the Cubs lost to the White Sox.

Wow.

That's like that only happens maybe one to four times a year.

Those years have black X's on my calendar because they're terrible.

Like they they hurt, yeah, you know, and uh, you know, but I'm believing that God's molding them right now.

Yeah, that God's just working, he was stripping some things away, he was exposing the pitching rotation and how how wrong and broken things are.

And so, you know, I'm just believing that some of the new guys are gonna come in.

And the Cubs have a new manager.

Yeah.

Uh shout out to Charlie Doss for calling that one out.

He wanted David Ross for a long time, and uh, he's in, he's the manager, and so I'm I'm hoping and expecting that we can at least compete.

Yeah, because this, you know, you said it last week at Survey.

You're like, ah, it's a 60 game season.

I don't even care who wins.

And I would agree with you.

I don't think this is gonna be like the greatest season of all time.

The World Series winner's gonna carry as much weight as the ones have in the past.

It's just a totally different game.

Teams that are terrible can compete for 60 games, so it's gonna be interesting to see what happens.

Man, I being a Rays fan, it would be such like a Rays thing to do to win the World Series season.

Yeah, because dude, they have a great team, they have such a good team, and they actually have a shot at winning it all.

And this would be the year, of course, that they would win it, man.

And then every and then gastrous.

Yeah, and we'd finally get the championship, and then everybody would look back and go, like, well, it didn't really count.

That's what I would say.

No, I know you would, and that's what furates me.

Infuriate whatever the words are I'm hoping if anybody wins it, it's just gonna be one of those teams that I hate that spent a million dollars, like the Yankees or or the Dodgers or something like that, because then I can say that their World Series doesn't count.

That would be like the only justifier, I guess.

But yeah.

Dude, thanks so much, man.

Yeah, man.

I loved being on it.

I think this is really great.

I think what you got going on here is special, and um, you know, hopefully we can continue the engagement.

And uh, this is a really creative way to do it.

So you're doing a good job.

Thanks, dude.

Yeah, man.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebration or l or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.