After the Message: Under the Influence

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

Well, I think that's a good place to start.

Uh welcome to After the Message.

We're gonna get Pastor Megan on here very shortly.

So, Pastor Megan, if you're listening, get ready.

Uh today I'm joined by uh Deneira Pittman.

How are you?

I'm doing so good.

How are you?

I'm doing well, Deneira, the daughter of Pastor Keith Pittman.

Why don't you go ahead and tell the folks who may not know like some of your responsibilities at the church and some of the things that you like to work on and got going on?

Yeah, some of my responsibilities.

I feel like that's changing weekly.

Of course.

But um, yeah, I'm my parents' project manager, so that's from like scheduling meetings to just connecting with like other churches, connecting with speakers, um travel travel arrangements.

Yeah, making travel arrangements.

I recently got into photography, so I'm taking photos at the church now, too.

Which, let me stop you.

The photos have been on point.

They have, they have been really good.

Thank you.

Yeah, I've I've really, I really like dang, okay.

Daniera knows what she's doing.

So I'm learning, yeah.

They look great.

And I think Jen would second that.

So Jen's got the thumbs up, they're good.

So doing that, um, connecting with the youth.

Yep.

Yeah, it's pretty much it.

Right on.

You uh you were you didn't you go to ministry school or do inter ministry internships a lot?

Yeah, so I did celebration college for two years while also doing Southeastern University.

So um in Jacksonville, um SEU has an extension site there, so some of the pastors and the um yeah, some of the pastors and people on staff there were able to teach a classes in person while I also was doing ministry school.

So I did that for two years, and then I did an internship in Atlanta, and then from there I moved out to Orlando.

Right on.

What's what was your Southeastern experience like?

It was it was really cool.

Um, especially since like some of the pastors I was able to connect with, um, I get to see them like in a teaching setting, and that was just able or I was able to like just connect with them on a deeper level and ask questions, or if I wanted to just pop up in their office and just talk to them about something random, then I can do that.

So that was pretty cool.

Nice.

Um, I didn't really get like the full college experience living on campus, which was fine.

I saved so much money.

Bucku money.

I've seen I've saved so much money not doing that.

So yeah, I think it was a pretty great experience.

I'm uh I'm actually thinking about going back to school myself, so when we when we cut the tape, stick around because I want to talk to you about it.

But um man, this this series that we're in, uh I thought about you being one of the guests for sure because I know that you're going back to school right now, right, for political science.

Is that correct?

So in this series and obviously in the season, uh you were one of the first people I was like, I gotta get Deneer on after the message to talk about it because this is an interest of yours, you know.

Yeah.

And we we're kinda Pastor Keith has kind of talked about it a little bit and stuff about um what does it look like for us to live and how do we live, you know, in this and how do we how do we mirror the kingdom, you know, in strife and what is the year 2020?

You know, basically like the chaos that is 2020.

So what kind of I guess what kind of propelled you to pursue political science, or is that something you've just always been interested in, or or yeah, what what kind of led you to that?

Yeah, so I was thinking about doing political science probably um gosh, probably like in 2017, I was thinking about it.

I was still at I was in my first semester at SU and I applied to UNF, I got in because I was just gonna do the ministry school side of celebration college and then go to UNF.

Um, but I felt like um I felt like the Lord said no.

So I just didn't do it.

And so when everything kind of erupted with like the George Floyd thing, like that's just such a burden of mine.

It's just like racial um equality.

And so I just continue to pray about it and just pray like Lord, like what is my role and responsibility in this?

Like I know like this burden is from you, um, because it's not something I can just like shake off and move on.

So um I continue to pray about it, and I feel like you led me like down this path of doing political science.

Um, I don't know what that really means in the long run.

I'm just trying to be obedient um right now.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I just have a just a deep passion for um just racial equality, and I definitely see myself doing something like in a nonprofit setting.

Okay, cool.

Um, I don't know exactly what that means practically, but yeah, that's kind of what led me to being here right now.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great next step, is you you sort of have a good foundation on the ministry side of things slash nonprofit.

Let me get a let me get a side of things from the political viewpoint and then be able to mesh those two together, and who knows what could come of that.

So I think that's a great next step.

Um so with all that being said, you know, we are talking about Daniel and kind of the parallels between that story and our current state, and you know um the God's people being in Babylon and trying to still honor God in the way that they live, you know, Daniel included and his friends, um, but at the same time, like not being defiant to local authority, I guess.

In your opinion, like what what do you think is the what's the difference or what's the distinction between like honoring government authority but not just being blindly compliant?

You know, like how do we do that like kingdom-oriented?

Yeah, that is a really good, great question.

Yeah.

Because I think about it all the time.

Like, what's the difference in me being defiant as opposed to me being compliant, do you know?

Yeah.

And and how do I how do I respectfully or honoring honoring God?

How do I how do I do that?

How do I be a good citizen, but also realize that this isn't all there is, you know?

America just isn't it.

Like we like Pastor Keith said, we are citizens of the kingdom.

Yeah, that that is just such a great question.

I it reminds me of in Romans when Paul says like we're supposed to like honor and respect government, like people that are in government authority.

And um, when I first read that, I was just like, what?

Like that's that's just extremely hard.

Especially when you see like the hate from it doesn't even matter what side it's on, there's just so much hatred that's out there.

It's really hard.

So I think there there has to be a point where we do have to honor and respect those, even though we may not agree with what they're doing or the policies that they're passing.

However, that doesn't mean that I have to be openly supportive of it either, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Um, because I I do believe that we are supposed to honor one another, like we're supposed to call we're we're caught to love one another.

And so in doing that, like we're supposed to listen to what the other party has to say.

We're supposed to listen to um some of the input that they have, but I don't think it has to be um hatred either.

So I think there's like a fine like line in the middle that we all have to come and be like, okay, like I may not agree with what your opinion is, but that doesn't mean I have to like delete your number and call y'all on Facebook.

Like I sure there's just like these wild extremes that we're seeing right now, and I'm and it's just it breaks my heart, like as Christians to see it to you, because we're like as the series says, we are citizens of the kingdom, so that means that we're supposed to act um as that, not as the world.

And so it breaks my heart because that doesn't draw people to the Lord, doesn't draw people to want to come to a church that's maybe have this crazy stance that's spewing out hate.

And so I think we just have to get back to being Christ's followers and just simply loving one another.

Yeah, and it's you know, along the lines of things that we've talked about earlier in our series of you know, what did Jesus really say about cancel culture, you know?

And we talked about how just because we're for someone doesn't mean like we're necessarily endorsing that, and there's a difference between like supporting and and all that and all that stuff.

And also uh another series, like what does God want?

We talked about God wants a family, and we talked about how we're all created in the image of God.

And so both sides of the aisle are created, they have dignity, you know what I mean?

So you're right, it's it's tough to be able, especially if you disagree with someone on something as like um polarizing as the race conversation can be, uh, it's difficult to be able to show that person Christ-like love, you know.

But I think I think we overcomplicate it, to be honest with you.

I think we overcomplicate it on both sides as I think we overcomplicate it with, well, we need to do this in order to stand out.

Yeah, and I also think like we get our ideology so wrapped up into politics, and so we say, like, oh, the Bible says blah blah blah blah, and it's like actually that's not even the context of the scripture that you're trying to like push whatever genuine that that you're trying to push.

Like there has to be a place where we are not looking to the world for like peace because it's never gonna be able to come to us.

Like, if you look throughout your your life, what has the world been able to offer you that's given you peace?

Yeah, nothing.

I mean there's been nothing at all.

At the time of this recording, my uh my Tampa Bay Rays just lost the world series last night.

I hope mate's okay.

Yeah, and so it's been a tough, it's been a tough 12 hours um so far.

How long it's been, I I don't know.

But and I was thinking about that even earlier today, I was like, man, how much how much was I stock was I putting in like that to provide me happiness?

Just wanting to win so bad, and then we lost, and like how how much it affected me.

So I don't know, a little tangent on that.

But you're right, like w how much how much has the world provided me with peace?

I mean, none really.

Can it be substantial?

Like for a long time.

Yeah, like it may be a short time like pleasure or satisfaction, but like that hasn't lasted you for years.

Yeah, it's not true peace.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Um, what I mean, what has 2020 been like for you personally for Deneer Pivot?

It's been, I would say it's been probably the hardest year of my life, but it's also been like the strongest year like spiritually.

So it's just like a weird place to be.

Yeah.

Because like the situations haven't gotten easier.

Like I think in Craig Rochelle's book, he talks about his friend that has like tendonitis or something, and he says the pain hasn't been easier, but like how I how I carry the pain has gotten like you get a different perspective with that.

So that's kind of that's kind of perspective I've had.

Um, especially like in the beginning year I've had issues with my asthma, then I got COVID, and I was like, okay, like and I was stuck in the house for six weeks, so that isn't that's just not good for your like mental health at all.

Um and then two weeks after that I break my tail, so then it's like this weird place of not being mobile, and so now I'm finding out a place like okay, like what really is this year?

But I feel like it's really just been one of my um strongest years spiritually.

Um I it's one of those things where it's like it's crazy for me to say, but like I'm I'm kind of happy that I got COVID because I'm not sure if I would have been totally dependent on God if I didn't go through that season.

Because I think there's so many times we can try to um rationalize our faith.

Like I'm a good at that.

Um, I'm overthink a lot of things.

Um, so I can try to rationalize like or like not really having to put my faith into practice as much because I can rationalize it.

But like when you're at like the the deepest point and like there's nothing else you can turn to but the Lord, like that just doesn't give you like more strength than that.

Like you don't get more strength than in that.

Um so yeah, it's been a it's been a tough year, but um on the spiritual component, like I've just I've just grown so much in that.

So that's super bit for me personally.

Yeah, yeah, that's encouraging to hear because I feel like there's a lot of stories that are opposite, you know, like worst year ever, like and people suffering with you know mass anxiety and depression and uncertainty.

And um, so yeah, I think it's been a wake-up call for a lot of people, and myself included, but it it it does definitely parallel the story that we talked about with you know the fiery furnace, the shadrack me, shacking a bed and a go story that I've heard since day one of being a kid in Sunday school.

But um it has put it in a a different light, and and I think the best um the best statement was if uh if then versus even if.

You know, and I think I think we've had to use or we've had to try and put that more into practice this year because our comfort has been disrupted, you know, and and we're are you more are you more concerned about your convictions or your comfort?

I guess is what I'm trying to get at.

And I think what they modeled for us so well is like that would be the most gruesome death ever.

Oh my god.

Being burned alive, you know?

But they exactly, but they were just like, Hey, even if, you know, God's still our God.

And man, I don't know.

I don't know what's down the road for Christendom and and if there's any, you know, sort of persecution headed our way or anything like that for being people of faith and people of the kingdom, but it really makes you stop and think.

Yeah, it does, because I'm like, would I would I've gotten in the furnace?

Like, I don't know if I would happen.

A scary way to go out.

It is.

And I even think about kind of what your dad was talking about, like stand up and speak up.

Like, what are the times in my life where I didn't do that?

Or what are the times in my life, what are circumstances right now where I need to be doing that?

Yeah.

Have you ever like have you ever faced that pressure?

I mean, the title of the sermon was under the influence.

Like we're we're all we can all be so easily influenced by and I know for me it's just people around me, just because I want people I don't like I don't like disruption, you know, I like everything to be everybody cool.

Like what's what's the biggest thing for you, I think, is my question.

Is it media or people or your own head, or what what what do you think is can influence you if you're not careful?

Oh yeah, I think for sure, um I think it's I think it's the media, especially like when you see um you see a lot of things being brought to the surface, especially with like just injustices um in general.

And so it's like, dang, am I not caring enough?

Like, am I not like do I need to post more about this?

Like you you feel kind of like I don't know, just kind of guilty if I if I don't say this, that means that I'm doing this.

And it's just kind of like I think sometimes we just put pressure on ourselves that like God has not placed there.

Yeah.

Um, because I think there is a difference between like burdens and convictions.

I think they're very similar, but there is a difference with that.

So I feel like bur with burdens, it's um something that God has.

I don't know.

I just feel this in my spirit.

But I feel like with burdens, it's like God has given you this for you to either like care about or make some sort of like action with.

I feel like convictions is like God is calling you to be like set apart from.

And so when you look at convictions, it's like, okay, like I'm I know I'm not supposed to be a part of that or partake in that because God is calling me and drawing me to be part of a higher standard, if that makes sense.

I hope that wasn't all over the place.

No, no, no, that makes sense for sure.

That definitely makes sense.

And I think um, you know, standing up and speaking up, I think the world's really good at speaking up.

Oh, yeah.

And we say it's standing up, but is it really?

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, are we is the world really on the front lines of a certain issue, or is it just saying an opinion?

Yeah.

And I think that's that's one of my fears about the church and kind of one of my prayers for the church is that we can be people that not only speak up, but we actually stand up.

Yeah, you know, and and we actually are boots on the ground, you know, and I've been reading a lot of New Testament Paul's letters and stuff, and a lot of times he's just saying, like, hey, um, just do the simple things right so that people can realize that you're different.

And it's not so you can be praised, it's so God can.

For sure.

So I think it's a really simple formula.

Yeah, I think it is.

I sorry, I'm processing.

That's fine.

But I just think um I feel like my dad appreciates this message and I forgot what he called it.

But it's he said something about outrage.

And so I think it's I think it's just as a church, as a people, um we we just can't look like the world.

Like if we we can't look like something that we're trying to like impact or change, like we have to be um, of course, leading people to Christ, but also modeling that through like the fruits of the spirit, kind of like we were talking about like last week, like we have to be a people that's modeling Jesus um and not excluding them through like hate or being like, oh, this is what it says in Leviticus, and you have to do blah blah blah.

Like that doesn't draw people in, it just it just doesn't.

Yeah, all that is is speaking up, I think standing up too.

But exactly one of the one of my favorite um lines from this past week's sermon was faith isn't predicated on outcomes uh because we have a different outlook.

Yeah.

Um what's your faith like?

Are you because you were talking about how like you can you can analyze and you can, you know, what's I guess what's your are there moments in your life where it's more prevalent, or how how have you, you know, the Bible says to work out your salvation?

How are you doing that?

I guess is my question.

And what's your faith usually like?

Yeah, I mean, I would say previously I could just rationalize it, like, oh, it says this, that means that this is gonna happen.

Or um, or I mean, of course I would pray about it, but it wouldn't be something that like I would be I don't know, just totally dependent on God.

That's like the only way I can really explain it, like meaning that no, like I'm placing all my energy, all my time, like I'm fasting and placing that this situation and I'm bringing it before the Lord.

I'll pray about it and just move on quickly.

Like, okay, I prayed about it.

Let's let's let's work on the action to what I'm praying for.

But I feel like now I'm being more sensitive to like what God like really wants for me and what is He trying to do through like this season.

Like previously I would be like, Oh, I just wanna I just wanna get out this season, like I just wanna hurry up and bypass anything, or I wouldn't, or sometimes I wouldn't even step out into things because I knew it it would uh it would require faith.

Yeah.

Um, and so that was like at a time where I really struggled with anxiety, like really anxiety and fear really, really bad.

Like I didn't want to step out and do anything because I was afraid of okay, if this didn't work out, then like I place all my energy and faith into that.

But then that goes back to like even if it doesn't this doesn't produce, like God is still good, he's still um amazing in all his ways, and so that's kind of where I feel like my faith is at now.

What were what were some of your steps to kind of overcome anxiety?

What like what is because I know that there's a plethora of others out there who have dealt with that and maybe they've tried multiple different things.

Like what what what's your story been with that?

Yeah, so um I don't want to sound overly spiritual, but I actually got kind of healed from anxiety.

Oh wow.

Um, so we had the awakening conference.

This was when I lived in Atlanta at the time, and I just came.

Down to Jacksonville for the Awakening Conference.

I think that was in 2018.

Okay.

I think it was in 2018.

Um, and so Pastor Carrie did like an altar call and it's like, hey, like, I feel like there's people who've been tormented in this room.

And um when I was living in Atlanta, I would just pray every single night.

Like, I just had like this heaviness, just super anxious when I lived there.

Um, and so she does this altar call.

I raise my hands, I'm crying, and she was like, Okay, like this, she's like, I feel like healing's taking place, but um it you may not be able to see it now.

Um maybe like down the road, and she was like, just test it out, see how you feel, like when you go to sleep tonight, all that kind of stuff.

And like ever since that day, like I have not like had anxiety.

Really?

It's just been like there have been moments where I have felt like this nervousness and this anxiousness, but like this deep anxiety that like I used to have, like I I just do not have that anymore.

And so, um, to give advice to someone, um Yeah, the skeptics out there, what do you what would you say to that?

Um, I would just I don't want to be like, just pray.

I think you need to invite people in, like, because my closest friends, they knew about it, they knew that I struggled with it, and so um they of course prayed for me.

Um, I never stepped out into doing this, but like going to like a counselor or a therapist and seeing what they do for you.

But every single night I would pray, like God has not given me a spirit of fear, but a peace, love and a sound mind.

Like, I would pray that over myself every single night um when I was struggling with it because as the years progressed, like it just got worse.

But like after that time I went to that conference, like I have not had it.

Wow.

So man, there's a lot there.

I think one of the biggest uh components of that story is your your consistency there, you know, and um that even if mentality of like, hey, it may not be healed tonight, but tomorrow night I'm gonna pray for the same thing.

You know, and and I you know, again, it it kind of goes back to the the story uh uh of of Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna be consistent, you know, we're gonna be consistent, worship God no mat no matter what.

Um and we may not we may not see fruit of it today, but that doesn't mean tomorrow that we're gonna do anything different.

Yeah.

So I think what I think another like disclaimer to put out there when you hear stories like that, if you're listening, is like your story doesn't have to be Deneer's story, you know?

Like God's creative enough to work in other ways, you know what I mean?

Um so yeah.

Why why do you think it's do you think it's more rampant now?

And have you I don't know if you've done any research on it, like the history of it, but why do you think it is such a big and I don't I don't want to use the word it's not just a topic, it's an actual thing, but why do you think it is such a big issue in 2020 and you know the 21st century?

Yeah.

Um I don't think COVID helps, especially being an isolation where um like placing hope in systems, um, like placing hope in like career goals and things like that.

Like I don't think that really um helps when you start looking at um anxiety.

I think it's more rampant now than anything is just uncertainty.

Like that's what anxiety is.

Like you're you're fearful of like uncertainty.

Like you you can't have you like well, you don't know what is exactly certain, so you continue to process over like in these what if statements.

At least for me, that was what it was.

Like, what if I do this and I fail and what if this and then I end up going down a rabbit trail?

What if I'm homeless and it's like I just it's just like these extreme things.

Wow.

And so I think within everything that's happened because of COVID, like it definitely has not helped.

Um and I think people have just I think people have walls up as well.

Um, I think people may not want to just outwardly address it?

Yeah.

I d I was trying to find the right word.

I don't think people outwardly want to address it because uh they're scared of what may happen if they don't see results in trying to get help either.

Like it's there's just so many factors of just being like stuck in the middle of like, okay, you know what?

This is just this is just something I'm gonna have to deal with for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

And it it doesn't have to be that way.

Um I I think there's a different way in to carrying in carrying it um by placing I don't want to say placing more trust in the Lord because there are people out here who are probably like, I've been doing that for seven years now, I still haven't seen anything.

Um, but I think it's just learning how to carry it in a healthy way.

Interesting.

As well.

Speaking of um thinking about different outcomes, there's a lot of um there's a lot of fear about the coming weeks and months.

And I was talking to somebody the other day, I was like, man, what do you think?

Do you think a lot of this stuff is just uh perpetuated and it's gotten to a certain point where it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy where now it's going to be really bad, or do you think it's just all hype and then once there's a decision made on who our leader is gonna be, like it'll kind of blow over?

Like, have you thought about that at all?

Yeah, I think it I definitely think it's gonna be messy.

Um I don't I don't have fear about it, but I do think like whoever it's gonna be, it's just it's just gonna be messy.

Um just because the state of this world, like there's people who are destroying each other on social media.

I just saw like a a video today of um like both of the parties who are just protesting and they're like yelling and fighting, and I'm just like like it doesn't have to be this way.

Like I don't it's just it's just kind of mind-boggling to like just look at and just be like, wow, like this is this is a state and like our country.

Like, and I feel like it wasn't like this 10 years ago.

Like I don't maybe I'm wrong and I was just blind to it, but I feel like 10 years ago, like we were just like like it was easy to be friends with someone with different beliefs.

Now it's like, oh, you don't believe what I believe, we're not friends, and like we can never hang out ever again.

Like it's I don't think it has to be to that point, but I feel like over the past few years it's just gotten to this like kind of like a volcano.

Like it's just like bubbling, just like small things that are just happening, and of course, like more racial injustice continue to happen.

I saw like another like unarmed black man die yesterday.

Um, so it's like this is just it just adds more to it.

Like when you see small, not small, but we when you continue to see like instances like that continue to add to it, it just is not helpful at all.

Um, but you know, like I I have hope for the future, even though like no matter how this ends, like I I'm just at a point where I'm like I I can't place hope in this world.

My hope comes from Jesus and Jesus alone.

Um, and so that's just kind of like where I rest in.

Yeah.

If you would have asked me that like five years ago, I wouldn't have said that, but really now I'm like, no, like I because I can't control it.

And that's another thing in anxiety, is like you want to control like the different spaces and narratives and decisions in your life, and it's like I can't control this, but what I can't control is my hope in Jesus.

I can control my faith, like I can control um listening to him and spending time with him.

Like those are the things I control I can't control, so that's where I'm gonna place my energy in.

Yeah.

I was talking to somebody the other day and they were saying, Man, it's almost becoming easier, or maybe I heard this, I don't know, but the thought came to me regardless.

It's almost becoming easier to like be a Christian because you can stand out like a sore thumb if you're just kind.

Yep.

You know, not nice, because I mean anybody can be nice, but if you have true kindness, yeah, it's like, Well, what are you doing?

Like, who are you?

You know, why are you why are you that way?

Exactly.

Um, and so it just kind of struck something within me, like Daniel wasn't the only Israelite in Babylon, you know, but he was the one that stuck out because he he decided, he made a decision.

You know, I mean, who knows?

I'm sh maybe there were other people of God that were doing the same thing, but the story's written about him, so that's what we had to go off of.

But yeah, I just I just think that kind of what I was trying to say earlier is we just we overcomplicate and we try and add all these layers and systems and everything when really it's just love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, self-control.

Yeah, you know, like self-control.

If we can if we can model self-control for the world, like how how great of a a place could that be?

Yeah, exactly.

So what are what are some things that I asked Vinny the question last week, and I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna ask this um for the next few episodes of the podcast.

What what's your hope for the church in 10 years?

And where where do you kind of see the church?

And I I feel like the global church, and especially here in America, has learning some new things and some new rhythms, and um, you know, quarantine has definitely thrown things off, and we've been interrupted.

You know, we've been interrupted from our regularly scheduled programming, and now we're trying to figure out okay, are there different avenues or different ways that we can gather and practice our faith and actually be the church?

Yeah.

What's kind of your hope for the next 10 years as the church?

I just hope that we can kind of get back to the point of being citizens of the kingdom.

Like if we can get out of not trying to push a certain narrative or political agenda and just simply be the church, I think there's hope in that.

Um, but if we like if we're still advocating for just political agendas from the pulpit, like I just I do not know how fruitful that will be.

Especially since like we are called to be the bride of Christ.

So that means that we need to be loving one another as brothers and sisters as Christ.

So as the global church, we are supposed to be a family, we're supposed to be interdependent on one another and not just be sectioned off our well, our church has a stance on this, and this is what we believe, and it's not even entirely like biblical.

Like, I think we just have to get back into simply doing what the Bible says.

Um, sorry if that's aggressive, but I just feel like that's what it like.

I don't know.

I think when we just get so caught up in just these systems and the like ways of the world, and then trying to adopt that as the church, it's not gonna be fruitful.

So I have hope in hoping that we can get back to a place of just simply doing what the Bible says.

Yeah, methodologies have become like our new way to worship, you know.

It's it's well, how do you guys do it?

How do you you know?

And um, yeah, I I agree with you.

I I think that the next question that I've been asking myself, and I don't have an answer to it, but why not throw it out in the room?

How how in the world are we supposed to get all of the denominations and all of the different ty how how are we supposed to get on the same page, you know?

Yeah.

And one of the sad realities of this is there are churches that are no longer existent because they just couldn't they couldn't pay the light bill anymore, you know, very simply.

And and that's that's tragic that a church has to shut its doors, especially if it's you know, kingdom focused and on mission and all that stuff.

But um one of the things that I was talking to is somebody, I was like, well, I was talking to a venture capitalist, and he was telling me that because I was asking him about the economy and what he thought was gonna happen, and he was telling me that the market's oversaturated, so it's probably a good thing that some businesses have to shut down.

And I started thinking about man, I wonder if that's true for the church.

I wonder if we're a little oversaturated, and maybe the way for us to come together is for us to actually come together, you know what I mean?

So I don't I don't know.

It it seems like a massive problem, and obviously God cares for his his church and he's in control, but something's gotta shift, you know.

Yeah, I think it just I mean it's I think it shifts or goes back to like how kind of like the birth of America came.

Like be and just because of that and just um the coloni colonization of um of America, like in that there's been so many different like um religions or different sex uh sects of Christianity has come out of that, and so now it just doesn't look like we're congruent in our language.

But if you look at other religions, you can tell like they're on board.

Like if you look at someone who is a practicing Muslim, like you can tell, like for the most part, they have the same idea ideology, you know exactly what they're doing, exactly what they're practicing.

They are all on the same page.

But when you look at Christianity, there's just so many different beliefs within that.

And so I think it's been something hard for people to follow.

It's like, well, this Christian says they believe in doing this, and this one doesn't.

So which one is it?

And then I think people get can get lost and discouraged in that.

It's like, well, you guys don't even know what you actually believe.

Um I don't know what the question was, but like that's just um observation I've noticed, like, especially this year, it's like, dang, like, what are where are we going wrong with like not going wrong with Christianity, but like why isn't our message consistent um as someone of a different religion because you can tell like their message is consistent, but I think um because of the different um beliefs within Christianity, it can be just really hard for people to follow.

Yeah.

Man, that's that's interesting.

I kind of want to do some more research on that, like how how this even started in the first place.

Because maybe if we know a gri maybe if we understand the history of how it started, we can s we can kind of reverse engineer it and start to help heal it uh a little bit.

But uh was there anything else that kind of stood out to you from this past Sunday or maybe the series at large, you know, at whole, like anything that's that's really been on kind of your mind as we as we talk about exiles?

Um not really.

I think it's very encouraging and convicting at sometimes because sometimes you can see like a news article and you're like, what the heck?

Um, but it's being like, no what?

Like, no, I'm a I'm a citizen of God, I'm a citizen of the kingdom first.

I think once you put like that into practice first, then it's like okay, like I can I don't have to like react in my flesh because it's really easy to do.

Sure.

If someone cuts you off from traffic, like I'm like, no what?

Nope.

I am I'm a follower of the Lord, like I have to like remind myself, like this is something I have to do daily.

Sure.

Like Paul says he dies daily, like to the cause of Christ.

So it's like, okay, like I really have to put that into practice and remind myself of that daily.

Like, okay, I am a citizen of the kingdom.

I am not like this, all of this is temporary, and I have to model Jesus in my life.

Yeah.

Practically on a day-to-day basis.

Yeah, that's good.

Daniera, thanks so much for coming on.

I appreciate it.

Pastor Megan, you're coming up next.

Thank you for joining us for after the message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebration or l or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.