After the Message: Relationships

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorml.org.

Hey, welcome to After the Message.

And before we go any further, um I need to apologize to our listeners because it's been a while since I've done uh After the Message podcast.

And I'm so sorry for those of you that tune into this.

Uh please forgive me.

We try to do at least uh two or three a month, and uh I've been slacking and and I'm here to confess and uh and uh repent of that.

So, but uh if you're new to the podcast, this is Celebration Church located here in Orlando, and this is our after the message section of the podcast, where uh pretty simply put we talk about the previous Sunday sermon and just continue the conversation and uh hope that it encourages you to do the same thing in your circles.

Today I have the pleasure of welcoming, not only new to the podcast, but new to the celebration church staff, Mr.

Hector Ramirez.

How are you, sir?

I'm great, man.

Super excited.

It's an honor to be here on this amazing podcast.

Yes, sir.

Here at this church, it's awesome, dude.

You're you're taking over the uh the next generation responsibilities, you know, see kids and youth and young adults and all that good stuff.

And yeah, how you feeling?

Pumped, ready to go.

So, you know, talking with y'all, I'm just go get I'm ready to get in there and see what God does most importantly in families.

And I know that um with families, man, kids and youth and young adults, all that is pivotal on a family.

So uh I'm just honored to be here and get involved in it.

Yeah, man.

And if you uh I'm sure you're already made aware of Hector's dialect, you where are you from, bro?

Because you are not from Orlando.

Let the people know.

Be proud.

Oh my gosh.

Let them know.

So if it those of you who have haven't seen me, I'm Mexican, but I don't sound like it.

But I'm from uh Alabama.

Right on.

So I was born in Brownsville, Texas, um, moved around Texas, um, and then at the age of five, we left Dallas and came to good old Alabama.

And so uh grew up there most of my life, and then God transitioned us to here.

So I get it all the time.

I was like, hey, where are you from?

And I'm like, and I like to make jokes, so I like to tell people, you know, I'm I'm red Mexican.

You know, I got that that redneck Mexican vibe going on.

Nice fam.

Yeah.

How's uh how's Orlando treating you so far?

You guys enjoying?

I know you you literally just got here and all that good stuff, but you've been down a couple times.

Yes.

How are you guys feeling about the city and all that?

It's amazing, man.

Um my wife and I joke, we were like, we were made for a big city.

She always told me that, but she loves the weather here.

The people are amazing.

Um, just seeing the the the diversity here.

Um but also one thing that caught us by surprise is the traffic really isn't that bad.

Like we were we were expecting like because we've been to Jacksonville.

Okay.

I've been to Atlanta.

I love Atlanta.

Yeah.

Like I really do.

Um, but I was like, everybody was telling us about the traffic and us driving around in it, it's really not that bad.

And we we live in a good little neighborhood, so everything's like 15 minutes to 20 minutes away.

So that might play in it, and because we're not out further, but we'll see how it gets.

But honestly, it's not that bad for us.

So man, that's I'm enjoying it.

You know, that's great per perspective for for us because we think it's terrible, but yeah, maybe it's not as bad as we think it is, you know.

Yeah, dude, yeah, man, we're we're pumped that you're here, and um, you know, obviously uh families are looking forward to you know having those ministries available to them and stuff.

Yes.

Um so yeah, man, we're pumped about that.

But I thought it was fitting to kind of bring you in, not not just because of um you know the your recent onboarding, but but also because of of the topic, you know, that we're talking, we're talking about relationships, and you know, uh you mentioned earlier how you know kids and and young adults and youth and all that stuff, you know, pivotal for the family dynamic, the relationship, and all that.

So I thought it'd be cool to talk to you about it today, man.

And you were actually in the building with us this past Sunday.

Oh, it felt amazing.

You've been watching on well, first of all, what's the online experience been like for you?

Just it's for an from an outsider perspective.

Yeah, so everybody listening, I just want to tell you that the online experience for me has been great, and we've been like, man, God can really move and touch you sitting there in your living room, wherever, on your on your bed, watching, watching it live.

But the dynamic of being there, present together with other people, as some people say in real life, yeah, is amazing.

Like it it f it blew us away.

Um, the spirit was there, God was touching people, the engagement of everybody during the service, you know, of people really diving in and seeking more of God was phenomenal.

So don't get me wrong, the live is awesome, yeah, but being here in person is uh just another level.

Yeah.

And we obviously understand, you know, like there are circumstances where if you're health compromised or you're around people that are, like, it's not a good idea, you know, to come out and and be in public and all that stuff.

But uh, if you have the opportunity to gather with us, we we'd love to have you.

Absolutely.

So uh so yeah, man, you you were there this Sunday, you you got to participate in worship and and and we're in our series called Pursue, and and Pastor Keith kind of explained how as a church we've had a little bit of of shift in perspective, uh and particularly in terms of of our mission statement uh of God's family pursuing God's kingdom.

Whereas before it was we exist to lead people to experience a God first life.

And and so one thing that he's that he said that's really helped even me kind of move forward in that and and and shift my my outlook on it is our pursuit determines our experience.

Yes.

And so it's it's been good to to kind of hear like experience can sometimes be viewed as like a passive thing, whereas pursuit, you know, it's active.

We're we're actively want to pursue God.

And man, something that he said that I kind of want to get your thoughts on uh initially jumping out the gate, he says you don't have to work for it, meaning God's gifts, but you do have to position yourself to receive them.

Yes.

A lot of times we get that confused, man, because it's like, well, what about grace and what about the goodness of God and stuff?

And so what's kind of been your your experience with that in your life as as far as like God blessing you and stuff like that?

And when have you seen uh have you ever seen a pattern in those types of giftings or blessings from God?

Yeah, so like uh specifically grace, I I believe that's the best example I can give personally for me.

That um, you know, hard conversations are are just hard to have in life, and then you have you know, meeting with people and talking with them like relationships, and we're talking about relationship here, so that's that's gonna be the main one I'm gonna talk about.

So, like, you know, you never want to get to that point where you're you're like button heads and you don't talk about it because eventually you're gonna blow up, you know.

But for me, in those moments where I've been like really hurt or offended or you know, really angry to the point where I looked at my wife and I'm like, I'm about to blow up on these people.

Yeah, like I don't know what's gonna come out my mouth.

That's when I have felt those those gifts that I'm like, God, I can't I can't do this.

So that's when I receive those gifts, those blessings come down, and that's when grace, I'm telling you, it's like a it's like a weight comes that would come over me before meetings or before meeting people with coffee or whatever it is to talk about these issues, that that grace would come down, and it was like at the end of it, we were crying, we were laughing, we were loving each other, and then I'd come home to my wife and I'm like, you will never believe this.

And she's like, I know, because we cause we prayed about it, and that's when when you can't go any further, that's when God takes over.

Because we have to empty out of ourselves, you know, so that that way we're in a position to receive those gifts.

And I believe that when we get to that point where it's like, okay, I cannot do this, so God, here you are.

And I believe that positions you perfectly because for God to say, okay, here's where you need me the most.

Let me cover you in those areas where I need I need to cover you right now.

Yeah, that's really good, man.

Because I think a lot of times when we talk about grace or or or we have discussions about it, the the thing and that comes to the modern Christian's mind is just like forgiveness or you know not being punished for my sin.

Yeah, basically.

When in reality, grace can be a multitude of things.

It can be like you were saying, the grace to have that conversation, the grace to move forward.

It's basically me emptying of myself and receiving God's grace.

So kind of along the lines of what Pastor Keith was saying, he's like, um, you don't have to work for it, but you have to be in a position to receive it.

And and that's what our pursuit is, you know.

And um, so I think that's real a really good point that you brought out is like emptying yourself of those things in order to have room for for God's grace.

Man, because self can get in the way.

We know that our own selfish ambitions are our want for this and that.

But it's like, man, forget that.

Folks, seek first the kingdom, right?

Pastor Keats mentioned that seek first the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added to you.

So seek first the kingdom.

That's good, man.

Um we talked about like relations relationships determining our direction and and and our direction determining our destination.

You know how he words myths all this stuff.

Yeah, you know how he's brilliant.

But um I think one of the things that he said after that was your intentions don't determine your destination, your your directions do.

So I can have the intent, but unless I move forward and pursue it.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

Um, and and I know for me in my life there's there's definitely been a stark difference between me wanting to do something and me being intentional about doing it.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

So it's kind of like your story with how you are coming here.

You were telling me earlier, even today, like, man, two years ago, we really felt like God was asking us that we were gonna be moving on and and and doing something else than where we were in Alabama.

That was two years, bro.

You know what I mean?

And now you're intentionally doing it.

Can you kind of talk about what that process was like for you guys?

Not you know, not necessarily just more so like your posture and your attitude towards it.

Yeah, so God started speaking that to us, man, two years like you were saying, two years ago.

And it was like there was there was no church hurt or anything going on.

We were just in a I it was it was God Himself, and I looked at my wife and I remember saying, you know what?

Um and when before God spoke this to us, I I prayed a dangerous prayer.

I said, Lord, because I was hearing all these crazy cool testimonies of people doing this and doing that, moving, and then God providing all their needs for them.

And I was like, I I remember looking at my wife too then, and I I said, you know what?

I want to I want to do something so ridiculous and crazy that it has to be God Himself.

And you gotta be you gotta be careful praying those prayers because you got you better get ready.

Yeah, because right after that, it was like God was like, get ready because I'm about to transition you.

And so I started trying to position myself.

I was like, okay, I may like I I'm praying about this, but I have worry that tries to sneak into my life sometimes.

Sure, it can be dangerous.

Don't we all?

And so I was worried, I was like, okay, man, this is the only thing I'm good at, Lord.

I don't have a degree, like I I'm not, you know, I don't have these things.

And so God said, Don't worry, I'm gonna take care of you.

But I was already planning out different ways, different avenues.

Like I sent my resume out to four different places.

I I even had a secular job opportunity come back up.

So I was like, um, I'll I'll just go back to doing that.

And it was like I was so worried and stressed out about it that I got to a place where I was like, you know what, Lord, um, you're gonna lead us, you're gonna lead my family, and you're not gonna, you're not gonna take us somewhere where you're not gonna provide.

And I felt like the Holy Spirit was speaking that to me.

And you know how the Holy Spirit, when he when he speaks to you, it's more like a slap in your face, like, hey, get ready, like buckle up.

Right.

I got you.

Right.

So, I mean, I was like, and that two-year process was just like, man, worry, faith, worry, faith.

And then finally it got to the point where it's like, no, give it to me, Hector.

I felt like the Holy Spirit said, give it to me, and I'll take care of it.

And he sure has, man.

I mean, quick little little testimony was that we were blessed financially in one month.

Like we moved earlier than expected.

We were supposed to be here at uh the beginning of March.

Wow, I didn't know that.

So, yeah, that was the expected date.

Like, so that because there was no pressure on us, all the pressure was coming from me because I'm like, I want to get down there, like I really need to get down there.

But we had no way to come down, like financially, none.

And then we were blessed in one month with all of our financial uh expenses covered to make this move possible.

And we moved earlier, like our house selling and all that is it's in contract right now as we're recording this, but um God's gonna take care of it, and so it's just been a journey where you know, it's like, hey, God was leading us here.

Do you have the faith to to follow me and whether or not being you know, have the intentionality to walk through, walk it out, you know?

Yeah, for sure.

That's awesome, man.

One thing I think that Pastor Keith really even helped me understand and something I never thought about and something I want to continue to like process and meditate on was contextual relationships versus covenantal relationships.

And and that this can be hard for me.

I'm like I'm a loyalist, you know what I mean?

So if you're in my life, like I feel like I I I'm loyal to you no matter what the situation, right?

But it was good it was good for me to hear that and and begin to to understand that that there are some there are some things that are contextual, they're just they're circumstantial, you know what I mean, and and we're we're in certain circles based off of our circumstance or our context.

But then there's covenantal things.

There's there's basically non-negotiable relationships, like those are the ones, marriage, for instance, you know.

Um so so I think I think that was really good for him to touch on and and maybe help a lot of people move forward.

And I don't know if you've thought about that before, even in the past or recently.

Oh my goodness.

I was sitting there, uh Caitlin, my wife, she looked at me and she's like, Man, there's so many people that need to hear this.

And if there was one part of the message that I think anybody should listen to, is that part because we get so hung up on people that we're supposed to like seasons change, and you know, some people aren't meant to go with you in that next season.

And Pastor Keith hit on this.

So, you know, really understanding which ones are contextual and which ones are, you know, the covenantal.

So for me, I was like mind-blown with the revelation that God was giving me in that moment because I'm like, man, that relationship really is this way, and this relationship is more this.

So, and then he kind of talked about, you know, your energy, you know, focusing your energy on on those um those covenantal relationships because you we can get so hung up on those uh other relationships that can drag us down and deter us from the destiny God has for us.

And we gotta be okay with God to say, you know what, I I know this season is ending and this might have to get over here, but I know you're gonna bring others and more people.

People can't be replaced.

I I like to tell people that like you can't be replaced, I can't be replaced.

Like that's not an arrogant thing to say.

It's just like you're unique, you're a unique being.

Yeah, so you can't be replaced, but God will bring other people to help you overcome certain situations and circumstances that we face.

You know, so that right there was so good, man.

And so Yeah, there's a tension there too that that I I'm still kind of wrestling with and processing, and I don't I don't know if that it's crossed your mind at all, but just the tension uh uh of doing good to your enemy.

You know, whenever Jesus talks about loving your enemy, pray for them, do good to them, um and and and just w watching Jesus interactions with people that maybe you wouldn't uh think Jesus should interact with, you know, and and that's our same calling as well as you know not to not to be influenced by those people, but but they're your mission, basically.

So there's kind of a tension there that that we we have to work through is like okay, maybe this person isn't doing anything for me, but but how can I still how can I still help them and and and be um be Christ-like to them, you know what I mean?

Yes.

That's kind of a tension that that I'm still trying to wrestle and work through, like, okay, maybe I shouldn't be in in close relationship with this person, but but what is my responsibility to that?

Does that make sense?

Yes, no, that makes perfect sense.

I tell people, like, for me, there's actually a statistic that says that if you are in church for seven years, um, you are likely to have no lost friends after that point.

Wow.

So for me, I've been in this thing.

I was I rededicated my life when I was 16 to God.

Yeah.

So I'm I'm 26 now.

So I've been walking with Jesus for 10 years and I've been in church that amount of time.

So back at my prior church, I was looking around and I was like, the only people I'm reaching are the ones that I'm putting a service on for or that I'm asking them to come to church.

But you know, Jesus sat at those tables, and you know what tables I'm talking about.

He sat at the tables with with tax collectors, drunkards, sinners, you know, prostitutes.

Like he was he was in it.

So for me, I started thinking of that statistic and I'm like, I gotta I gotta get out there and and do something.

But I know my um I I the thing is though, as believers, we gotta be at a point where we're filled up and mature enough to know to walk into an environment and not let the environment affect us, but that we affect the environment.

Yeah.

So we also gotta understand, and I think that helps me with that tension.

It's like when I walk in somewhere, I'm like, man, I got Jesus, I got the Holy Ghost.

You know, like you know what I'm saying?

Like I'm here, like it doesn't matter, and we gotta know that it's gonna be messy.

Like it is gonna be messy.

You're gonna walk in places, people ain't gonna talk the way you want them to talk, like people are gonna do some things that you don't want them to do, but still, God calls us to go into those places.

Sure.

And if we understand who we are, though, we know that he's got our back.

Yeah, and so that kind of helps me with that tension to really just say, you know what?

I'm here to pour in to show love and grace.

Yeah, that's good.

Love and grace.

And that's the thing that people understand.

Enjoy.

I like being a joyful person.

So I just like having fun.

Yeah, man.

Man, I like I goof off with anybody, I'll cut up and make jokes, you know, but you know, all in the context of like Paul, he says, I'm a man to all men.

You know, so you know, building that relationship and letting people know, like, you don't have to be a weird Christian.

You know what I'm saying?

Sure.

Like, love people and just be genuine about your love for God, and it will shine through.

Yeah, that's good, man.

And I and actually now that I kind of read read down and rethink about the what he was saying too, he even mentioned, you know, we treat everyone equally, but everyone doesn't get equal access.

Oh yes, that's so good, man.

And and I think that's that's attention too.

That's that's tough to manage, you know, but it's definitely something we have to do.

And I was kind of thinking through Jesus, and and and yeah, he he treated everyone, you know, with the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, kindness, you know, peace.

Like he he exhibited those things with within his relationships, but there were 12 dudes that had even greater access.

And then there was two or three who had even greater access, you know, and even more intimacy with him.

So I think if we're able to to kind of model that, yeah, um, we should be in pretty good shape.

Yeah, yeah.

I always I always try to think of myself and put myself in those stories when I read the Bible.

So I Like I'm like, man, how would how would this guy feel if he wasn't picked, you know, for to be in the top three with Jesus?

When he when he called, uh, I believe it was it was Peter, um, John, and um I'm going blank on the on the on the last one.

He asked to go pray with him.

Uh in the garden?

Yes, in the garden.

Uh was it James?

I believe so.

Yes, James, James.

So he asked him.

I wonder what the other guys thought.

Like, man, why didn't I get picked?

You know?

But it's like even Jesus only gave access, like that super close, intimate access to three guys.

Yeah.

So we have to be that way too.

But then also, I know Pastor Keith mentioned, um, don't put up those walls though.

Like, sometimes we have calluses based off um, I believe he said like our expectations of others and like past harms that have happened to us.

We have those calluses, we put up those walls.

You know, when you start building those real relationships with people, those walls slowly but surely will start coming down, you know, brick by brick, wall by wall, and they'll start coming down as you open up though, like we have to be willing to also give that equal access as well.

Yeah.

I like what Craig Rochelle says, uh, trust is given, mistrust is earned.

So that kind of reminded me of what Pastor Keith was talking about as well.

That you know, when I'm the type of person that when I meet you, I'm gonna instantly trust you.

Okay.

But the minute that you do something wrong, you've lost it.

You've earned that mistrust.

So then it's not it's not like I'm coming to you and accusing you.

More it's like, hey, when I'm when when I met you, like I trusted you and you earned this mistrust.

So like if you came to my house and they I left a$20 bill on my on my on my desk and you swiped it, I'll you know, obviously next time I'm not gonna leave cash right there.

I'm just gonna be like, and then you're gonna you know, I'm just gonna be like, hey, you earned that mistrust.

And I might not even let you come in my house.

Hey, man, I wouldn't blame you.

And then you would say, Well, why aren't you gonna let me in your house?

And I'm gonna be like, Man, you swipe my$20 bill, which I won't do.

So I'm you can invite me in your home, but yeah, yeah.

Um you were kind of talking about walls there for a second.

Is there any time in your life where you realize, like, oh my gosh, I've got walls built up, or have you been pretty open, or has there been any any moments where you have to tear those things down in order to let others in?

Yes, yes.

Um I had I I grew up with my stepdad.

So I had this um wall-up of men in my life.

So like I was very protective and reserved about men in my life, and I'll just go ahead and tell y'all the story.

And if I get emotional, it's because of how much it means to me.

So, long story short, I'm not gonna get into my testimony or anything like that.

Um, but uh my wife's parents took me in after I ran away from home.

It was like the third home.

I had nowhere else to go.

Her dad calls me, and me and Caitlin had been dating a year, and he called me on the phone, he said, Hector, I want to I want to tell you something.

He said, We want to take you in.

Because I had nowhere to go.

It was either go back to the home where I used to be at, where my parents were addicted to crack cocaine, and all the abuse was going on, all that craziness.

It was either go back to that, or I was gonna go on the streets somewhere, you know, or find, or just be a bum and just go to people's stay at different places, you know, for my uh sophomore, junior, and senior year of high school.

And he called me up, he said, uh, we want to take you in, but I want you to know something.

You're gonna be a son first and a boyfriend second.

So I was like, Man, I've heard people take people in and then but they still get treated a a different way.

Man, when I got into that home, they treated me like an absolute son, like with love, and they covered me.

And then here's what I wanted to get at when I put those walls up.

Um, I I had this terrible anger issue.

So, because of my environment that I was growing up in, and so I would always I I had stomach ulcers because of anger and stress.

Like I had three or four of them bad ulcers at 13 years old, so had had them all, you know, growing up until I was 16, until the love of Jesus came into my life.

And so it was at this point that I was still trying, you know, I was walk- I was a Christian, but I'm still working on my issues, you know.

Well, um, I was living with them, I was playing basketball, and I we were off three hours away at a tournament.

And uh we were playing for this coach, and I remember three hours away I had the smart idea that I was I had enough.

I'm quitting.

I quit the team, and uh my my wife's brother, younger brother, played basketball with me.

So of course he called dad up.

I call I called my father-in-law dad because he's that close to me.

Uh he called dad and he's like, hey, dad, uh Hector quit.

So we finished the tournament two days later.

We get home.

Um and dad pull me into the room by myself.

I was like, son, tell us what happened.

I told him I'm fed up with it.

Um I I don't want to do this anymore.

I quit.

They're like, well, get if you want to quit this, then you're gonna, every every day when you come home, you're gonna go straight to that room.

Don't even look at Caitlin.

You're gonna do chores, you're gonna get a job.

Like they were hardcore about it, man.

Like when you start something, you finish it.

It's that excellence factor.

Yeah.

And so um, so long story short, I pouted for three or four days, man.

Three or four days.

I I sold up, I soaked up around the house.

I wouldn't speak to anybody, and man, my goodness, I remember this day like it was yesterday.

This was when I was 16.

Um, we were sitting in the living room.

Caitlin's dad was in the the, you know, the iconic dad chair with the with the pull-out handle latch.

You know how yes.

So we were sitting there, we were watching a football game.

They were trying to talk to me.

I went cold shoulder.

He's in the chair, mom's in the other couch, brother's in the other couch, Caitlin's on the other couch, and um, I didn't respond to something they said.

The lazy boy handle goes up.

The chair goes in, man, and dad pops up.

He said, Let me tell you something.

He said, We took you in, and I mean, he laid into me, man.

And I was already planning, you see, I ran away from all my problems.

And I believe this will speak to someone as well.

Running will only get you so far.

And so I was already planning to run away to my best friend's house.

And this is where the Holy Spirit spoke to her dad.

Because when I was already planning that, that lazy boy came up and he got into me, he was laying in me, he said, and don't you even dare think about running away from this house because you are my you we have taken you in, and we said you are our son and we love you.

And man, when he said that, he and then he said this if you do run, he said, I will personally call the police and they will escort me to the place where you're at, and I'll they will watch me drag you out that house.

Oh man.

I mean, they took legal guardianship of me and everything.

Wow.

Because they couldn't adopt me, because if they had adopted me, I wouldn't have been able to marry Caitlin.

I know we're from Bama, but we don't roll like that, okay?

Okay, let me make that clear.

Let's get that clear.

I got you.

So um uh when he said that, I just burst down into tears.

And I'm just getting emotional thinking about because nobody in my life, not not a not a guy like that, a father figure, a man, looked me in my eyes and told me that they loved me and that they cared that much about me.

And so when he said that, that wall come down, it came down.

Yeah, and um we have a great relationship.

But I that moment, that was one specific one that really just spoke to me.

Yeah, man, and and it goes to and I'm sure he probably had a sense of your story and and and what what you were going through and all that stuff, and probably why he was so adamant about telling you that.

Like almost, hey dude, listen, I love you, man.

Like I want your best interests in mine, you know.

And I think it's it's a reminder for us though that that we don't know everyone's story, yeah.

And we don't know what everybody's coming from.

And and so to to respond in love like that, and and to to to really let somebody know, even even if we're unsure of what they're going through, can have such a huge impact, and it obviously had a had an impact on your life.

It changed my life, man.

Yeah, I mean it changed the direction of where I was going.

Because had I just instantly bounced and said, you know what, I'm done with y'all.

Y'all gonna treat me like that?

Yeah, which they weren't treating me bad or anything.

It was just me in the walls I'd put up.

So had I ran away, where would I be at?

Yeah.

I can guarantee I wouldn't be here.

Yeah.

Because I would have been doing other things and meant I I owe so much to that family.

Like they are precious to me.

Like, that's why I believe in family, like wholeness in the family.

Because once you once you reach the entire family, it's like God can start doing some things.

Yeah.

Some amazing things.

That's an interesting point that you brought up.

Is it it wasn't anything about them, it was all me, but you were still you were still projecting that on them.

You know what I mean?

You were still projecting like, man, I don't want to be here because of them.

When in reality everything was in in in you.

And man, sometimes we do that with God, right?

Like, God, why are you doing this?

Like, why are you allowing this to happen to me?

Or or why is why why why are you you know treating me like this for lack of a better term?

When in reality it's probably us.

Yeah, it's probably the posture of our hearts.

Yeah.

One thing I personally can't stand is when people say, the devil made my alarm clock go off.

I'm like, no.

Let's not blame everything on the devil because there are some things that we gotta take responsibility of.

Like me personally, I'm I'm I I need to work on my time issue as well.

But I'm not gonna blame that on the enemy.

You know, I'm not gonna say, Oh, the devil turned my alarm up.

Like, I I get it, some supernatural things might occur, but most of the time it's us.

And then we gotta be careful to just call it like it is.

You know, if we're lacking in an area, we have to be uh spiritually mature enough to say, you know what, God, I'm lacking in this area.

Help me.

That's good, man.

The uh kind of you know, four four points that that Pastor Keith, you know, gave us to to think about when when we're when we're talking about relationships is is being intentional, being encouraging, um, being gracious.

You know, and he said, you know, we want grace to flow to us, but um sometimes we don't let it flow through us.

You know, and that's that's so true.

A lot of times whenever I mess up or I need help or whatever, like I want that grace, but when it comes to other people, sometimes I'm not so willing to extend it.

Yes.

And then finally, you know, being loyal.

Um and uh he he actually gave us a a few other things was man being being curious but not critical.

Yes.

And that's that's really that's something I've really had to be intentional about in my life is because I can be I can be cynical at times and and and critical of of decisions or other people's um actions or whatnot.

But yeah, instead let let's take that criticalness and let's just be curious.

Let's ask the question, you know, like like let's not assume before before we get to know you.

He said, you know, ask, don't assume, which which I think was great advice.

Yes, yes.

Um and then he said connect before you correct.

Yeah.

Oh man.

Like I think that's why a lot of people are turned turned away from church because they hear people all the time trying to correct them on how they live.

When you have when you have no relationship with them, you don't know their story.

Yeah, exactly.

It all goes back to that, you know.

It we have to connect before we correct.

We we should never speak into somebody's life unless we have a relationship with them, like those hard, deep things that we need to talk about.

Yeah.

Those should be in the context of a relationship where you trust each other.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, that's good, man.

Um, the last thing that that he kind of mentioned that really stuck out to me and something that I've actually been thinking about for for a while now is the difficulty and and the tension of shouldering burdens but not carrying offenses.

Oh, yes.

So often those can get blurred, you know, and that can get muddy as is I can I can be like I can want to be shouldering a burden, but I'm actually carrying an offense.

Yeah you know, and it's it's actually hurting me more.

And like he said, you know, that person's already moved forward with it, but you're still holding on to it, you know what I mean?

So that that was just super helpful for me.

Um is there is there anything else, you know, from Sunday that or that kind of stuck out to you, or any other notes that you kind of jotted down that that you thought were were beneficial for you, man?

Um I want to say it just made me really dive deep.

I actually made a list of relationships that are powerful and meaningful to me.

Okay.

And so I actually made a list of people that I was like, okay, these are the covenantal relationships I need to be intentional about.

Yeah.

Um, and the uh I kind of was gonna start on another list, but I was like, no, let's not, let's not, let's not write that.

Yeah, I feel like that let's just focus on the covenantal ones and focus our energy there.

Yeah.

And I like what Pastor Keith said, he says, don't completely cut them off.

Just reserve your energy.

Because I've always even me, I was I I'll repent of it, but like I would tell people like if they're harming you or if they're if they're pulling you away from God, you need to cut them off.

That's not really the heart of Jesus, though.

Jesus never really cut anybody off.

He met them where they were at and he would give them grace and truth and he would love on them and that would change them.

So I think, but he reserved his energy for some of those people.

Something as simple as go and sin no more.

That does not require a lot of energy.

Right, right.

But when you're the son of God, you can do things like that, you know.

So it's like, hey, you know, don't cut people off.

Like my family, my blood family, like, even though we've been through all that that we've been through, I never once cut them off.

I never once said, I'm done with you.

I always prayed for them.

And guess what?

My parents um have have just recovered.

My my ri my mom and my stepdad, they are recovering.

Wow, you know, and so they're they're on a brighter, brighter track now.

Yeah.

And I firmly be believe it's because I never once stopped going over there to see them, even though I didn't agree with what was going on in the home, even though I have my two young daughters and my wife, who some of those circumstances, situations could have been dangerous where we were going to see them and hang out with them, but I never did that.

Wow.

And so it was all because the heart of Jesus, and I would tell my wife, I'd be like, Hey, thank you so much for going over there.

Because, you know, I want my daughters, I want my children to look at mommy and daddy and say, Mom and daddy were never afraid to to invite people over to their table.

Or never afraid to talk to those people who other people would never look at.

Well, that's what I want to be known at.

Yeah.

But that takes it takes trust, it takes a relationship, it takes you willing to get messy, yeah, and go through with it.

Yeah.

And and let God shine.

Yeah.

You know?

That's good, man.

I think but you know, before we kind of wrap up one disclaimer that that Pastor Keith gave, and and I think it it it bears worth repeating, is abuse.

You know, and and and we are not we are not made to have be an abusive s scenario situation.

So um we actually had a moment where we prayed for people who have experienced that and and and we're not just gonna pray for you, but we're also gonna extend a hand.

So if you're out there and you're experiencing that, get in touch with us, yeah.

You know, let us know and and and hopefully we can, you know, point you in in a direction that will help you recover and and and get out of a situation like that.

And because we're the church and and we're called we're called to help you.

So uh if that's you and you're listening to this and you have nowhere else to turn, like this is a place you can turn.

Absolutely.

So and I would say don't be afraid to do that.

Don't be afraid to reach out.

Because um with me in in my home, and like I said, my parents w were were good now, but in that in those years growing up, there was physical abuse, there was emotional abuse, there was mental abuse.

Had I stayed in that situation, because I chose to run away, had I stayed there, I I would I can guarantee I would be dead on the streets or I'd be in prison because that's where I was headed.

So we're not meant to be in abusive situations, but it takes courage and look, you're not gonna whoever's listening that the that we're reaching right now, you're not gonna lose anything.

If anything, you're gonna gain so much more.

So that I don't know if that means anything to anybody.

I just feel like I need to share that.

Like, don't be afraid to let go.

Dude, that that just that just struck me because you sharing that you've had similar experiences, and then right before that, you sharing that you've never cut them off.

You ran out of that situation, right?

Kind of like how Pastor Keith was talking about David ran out of Saul's presence because he didn't want to get his block chopped off.

You know, like he wasn't trying to get killed.

However, you you still kept some sort of openness, even if it was it just in your heart, you know, to to your parents, and now they're on a road to recovery.

Yeah.

I remember one time, man, that um I hadn't spoken to them after I ran away for about six six months and my heart was really hurting and so I was praying about it after I got my life right with Jesus and uh I did a sneaky Easter bunny thing.

Easter was coming up and uh I loaded up a big old bag with the help of Caitlin and uh we put Bibles in it and we put candy in it and uh I dropped it off at their at their door and I was too ashamed to even walk up to the door and speak to them and we dropped it off and my siblings told me they were so grateful for it and that they were they would reading some of them and you know praying and it just don't cut family off.

Yeah, that's just me.

Yeah, it can be h hard and it can be tough, but you gotta love them.

Yeah, for sure.

Man, thanks so much for for coming on and and talking to us.

And man, we're we're excited that you're here.

Thanks for being authentic and opening up, and I'm sure that there's people listening to this that you're helping move forward in in some small way, whatever that may be, man.

So really appreciate you you taking some time to do this.

Yeah, thank you, man.

It was an honor to be here.

Can't wait to see what God does.

Yes, sir.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.