After the Message: The Holy Spirit as Promised

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationLowerMill or visit our website at celebrationlowermill.org.

You know, folks, welcome back.

Welcome back to After the Message.

I feel like since the inception of After the Message, I've apologized many times for the length in which what would be the the correct term.

Anyways, there's been too much of a gap, and I apologize for that.

And I'm sure everybody's screaming, Where's After the Mess?

You know it is.

You know that people are going crazy for it.

Do you remember the TV show Lost?

I do.

Do remember like the gaps between the seasons and people just losing their minds.

Losing their minds.

Yeah, that's exactly what's happening with this podcast.

Exactly.

So I apologize.

We just don't have a polar bear in a in an island.

It's just both of them in a room recording a podcast.

I'm joined today by my friend, but most importantly, my brother, Vinitius.

Hi guys.

Vinny Costa.

Hi Nate.

Hello, Nathaniel.

Nathaniel.

Best name in English.

So good.

Nathaniel.

Nathaniel.

Vinny helps lead our worship and production arms of Celebration Church in Orlando.

And if you're stumbling upon this podcast, that's the podcast you're on, Celebration Church Orlando Podcast.

And after the message is simply a discussion of the previous week's sermon, and we just kind of keep that conversation going.

And we hope that it encourages you to do the same in your circles.

Yeah.

And and last week was crazy for two reasons.

Well, not crazy, but we had a guest preacher and it was the second service on our new venue.

In our new venue, we are currently meeting at our new home, the Orlando Museum of Art, which is beautiful.

You know that every time I er people ask me, people that don't attend celebration, they ask me, so where's the new venue?

And I say, It's at the Orlando Museum of Art.

They always ask me, What do you mean?

Like in the in the museum?

Yeah.

I don't know why they're there.

Well, maybe when you think of museum, you don't think auditorium.

Or you don't think that there's a space.

Because when I the museums that I've been to, I've never art museums that I've been to, I guess, I've never really noticed there being an auditorium type room.

So maybe that perhaps that's why they're asking that question.

For sure.

What was the other crazy one?

What did you say?

We we had a guest guest preacher.

Guest preacher, Pastor Clay Baird from Jacksonville.

Came down, spoke the word, starting kicking off our new series, the Holy Spirit, yeah.

Series that we're doing where we're trying to discover who the Holy Spirit is, the role that it plays in our lives, how we can tap into the Holy Spirit, maybe would be a good word to put that.

So what's the name of that restaurant in Jacksonville that you always talk about?

Cantina Laredo.

Okay.

I think that's what it is.

Yeah.

Hey, you working at Cantina Laredo, if you're listening to this, make sure you invite us to a free dinner at the restroom.

Very good.

Very good.

Let's talk about the Holy Spirit.

Alright.

And I think HS, as you guys say it.

We say that?

Well, I always see this HS.

On what?

Holy Spirit.

On books and everything.

Really?

Yeah.

No?

Am I wrong?

I don't.

Am I reading the wrong books here?

Maybe.

The first of all, actually, I want to start off by talking about towards the beginning of Pastor Clay's message, he was talking about Pentecost and the sound of the Holy Spirit.

And he kind of uh took a little bit of a rabbit trail talking about Peter and the Rooster Crow.

And he talked about how Jesus when Jesus said, You're gonna deny me three times before you hear the rooster crow, and he said, Don't you guys haven't you ever thought about the fact that that wasn't the only time Peter heard a rooster crow in his life?

And so every time after that he heard a rooster crow, and it probably reminded him of what he did, what he committed, you know, that that act of disloyalty, I guess, or towards Jesus.

Yep.

And so he started speaking about.

And maybe a little bit metaphorically, but maybe also at Pentecost, you know, actually hearing that sound, whatever that was, but maybe it being a little bit more comforting and encouraging, or maybe it was just really terrifying, like what is happening right now?

Yeah, yeah.

I just I I think that the redemption moment for Peter was more like when Jesus had that conversation with him at that beach.

You know, but just because Peter denied Jesus three times, and then on that weird conversation at the beach, Jesus is asking him, so Peter, do you love me one time?

Do you love me two times?

Do you love me third time?

And it's it's it's great.

Although that that weird conversation, and and of course the words Jesus used that for for love on the first two times, Jesus used the word agape, which is unconditional love, and that's not the answer Peter gives him.

I think this is interesting.

Peter always answers with file, which a which is a different type of love.

So when Jesus and it's it it's funny in Portuguese, we we have this translation of the Bible, and on that specific passage, the if I would translate from from Portuguese to English, that conversation will be pretty much like Jesus asking, Peter, do you love me?

And Peter saying, actually, I like you.

That's the difference of the words they were using there.

Jesus asking Agape, and Peter just saying Philel.

And then on the third time, Jesus just asking, so what you're saying is, Do you fill me?

Do you do you love me?

And it's not agape, and then Peter says, Well, you know, you know me better than I know me, I I know myself.

And Peter is and Jesus, you know, it Jesus is still saying, Hey, you know, take care of my what's the word in English?

Sheep.

Sheep.

Um, even though your your your level of love is not agape yet, you're gonna get there.

You got the way you're gonna love will bring bring glory to me.

Wow.

So I think that that conversation was the redemption moment for Peter.

And then leading to the Pentecost, to the to the Pentecost and everything that happened there, it was Jesus or God showing Peter, hey, now that you have your redemption, it's time to move forward.

It's time to, you know, uh preach the gospel, and 3,000 people will say, sure, I want to do this.

It's time for you to go to the temple and have that encounter with that guy and say, Hey, I don't have gold, I don't have, I don't have silver, but what I have, I offer to you, you know, in Jesus' name.

Come on, get out of that situation.

Yeah, so I I really believe that the redemption moment happened at the beach, and then what's happening in Acts is just a consequence of that.

And uh, and of course, the consequence of that of the redemption is the presence of the Holy Spirit.

I think this is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, when we found this redemption in Jesus, I think we immediately realize that something great is available for us, and it's not only this relationship, but it's an open door for trying to discover what the Holy Spirit is.

I think we're all trying to figure that out.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

Um, and I think kind of a good place to start to follow up with that would be the question of where's the Holy Spirit been before Pentecost?

You know, what what's the Holy Spirit been up to?

Because obviously, if the Holy Spirit is a person of God, he's eternal, right?

And so I think back to passages, especially in Genesis, and the Spirit was hovering over the the chaos, basically, the waters, you know, and um you even hear read in the Old Testament how the Spirit of God came upon somebody.

So, what's the distinction between the Holy Spirit living with you slash living in you?

And is there one, first of all?

What was it doing before Christ, before the ascension, and what's what's the difference now?

Well, I I see a difference, uh, especially in the in the old testament, you see clearly that the Holy Spirit, of course, still God, still a thing, but the way he was operating was different.

We see, for example, with Saul, we see Saul when he started being a king, we see that the Bible says the Holy Spirit took over him and he started to prophesy.

But it was in a moment, it was not available for him every day, it was it just happened.

Same when we read in on Second Chronicles about the temple and the first day, the temple when the when the temple was ready, we see the Bible says that the shekinah, the Holy Spirit, was there, and the the priests, they were all trying to understand what was happening, but happened in one moment.

Um so I think it's pretty much of course it's the same person, it's the same God, but it's God acting in different ways.

Um in the new testament, we see that the Holy Spirit is available to live inside of us.

Yeah, now we can invite Jesus to be part of us.

Yeah, now we have this concept of in the old testament, they have the tabernacle tabernacle and they had a temple.

Now you are the temple.

So you can invite this, you can invite God to live inside of you.

So the Holy Spirit is in you, the Holy Spirit is you know working inside of you.

So I can clearly see the difference in in uh on those examples, and I could talk a a little bit of more examples up about about this, but I think it's just how God decided to operate in different seasons of um humanity humanity, yes.

Yeah.

Do you think that let me back up here?

I feel like as Christians, especially if you've been a Christian for a long time, unfortunately, you can just become accustomed to the way that you operate, right?

And almost accustomed to the Holy Spirit, or you're just used to it.

Does that make sense?

Um are we are we missing out on are we missing out on utilizing him more just because we're just going through the motions of Christianity?

I think so.

How do how do we how do we hit pause on that and refocus?

Oh man, I think I ask myself this question every day.

Um if God if Jesus was the starting point to God to God start operating the way he's operating right now, meaning Holy Spirit is available, why the Holy Spirit was so evident in acts and today it's so hard to see things like that.

If it's the same God, same timing or same time in history, same covenant, that's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, why why we don't see things like that so often?

So I ask my my this myself this question you mean like s manifestations and signs, and you know and I really believe it's all about how much we seek, it's all about how much we are interested on on this, you know.

Because if we think about on your 24 hours day how much of that time you have you invest in actually develop this relationship with him, you know.

Um it's not much for all of us.

It's not much.

We're busy with a lot of stuff uh around us, but so I I think what we see, especially with Peter, uh, because I it's it's really uh it's amazing who he was and he who become became um I I see that Peter was just operating in in this overflow mode.

You know, he was not trying to perform anything, he was everything that was happening around him, it was just an overflow of something that was happening inside of him.

And and and I think what's ha what was happening inside of him, uh it was this uh relationship with the Holy Spirit being developed developed every single day.

Yeah.

So I think it's available for us.

I think it's I think we can definitely see great things that the Holy Spirit can do.

And of course we see uh we see it, but uh to answering to your your question.

I think we need to go back to this place of dependence, you know, this place of hey, it's not my job who provides for my family, it's God who provides through to my family through my job.

It's not you know, it's putting myself on this position where I know if I don't have God, I have nothing.

And I think this place of dependence or surrender, if we we can put it like that, I think this place helps us to develop this relationship.

It's pretty much like if I don't have God with me right now, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

If I don't have the Holy Spirit to guide my next step, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

So think about think think about how many important decisions you make every single day and you don't even ask God about it.

You know why we do that?

Because we're self-defense.

But if we put ourselves in this position of, hey, let me ask God about this, we are developing this relationship and we are actually allowing the Holy Spirit to guide our steps and to work inside of us.

Does that make sense?

So I definitely think it's our it's it's the way we we position ourselves in this relationship.

I invite God to be part of areas of my life, only the areas I want Him to be part of.

You know, I and I think I I think it doesn't work like this.

It's more like God, if you're not with me right now, recording this podcast, replying that email, calling to someone.

If you're not with me, I won't be able to accomplish what you want me to accomplish.

So I I I really like this place of dependence, dependency.

Dependency, yeah.

Here we go.

Is that kind of what Jesus is referring to when he says, Without me, you can do nothing?

I I but I believe it is, yes.

And it it's also Jesus asking God on the cross, Eli Eli Masabactani, God, why why are you forsaking me?

Why why you're not hearing me?

Because it was the first time Jesus felt alone, so he asked, meaning, I can do this by myself, you know.

So I think that's our position, that's our place.

Hey, if I if I try to be successful successful in my marriage by myself, I'm gonna fail.

It's impossible to raise my daughter by myself, I'll f I will fail.

But if I ask him to, you know, to be part of this, if I put myself in this position of dependency, I think things things start changing.

What do you say to someone who's a billionaire?

Someone who has it all, someone who is quote unquote self-made.

Right?

You've heard this term before.

Self-made basically.

Um so hard.

They've they but but what what I'm saying is they can take the phrase that Jesus said, like without me you can do nothing, and turn it around and say, Look what I've done.

What what do you say to that?

Is what they've done nothing in the eyes of the kingdom?

Oh, how how can I I I don't know if I can say that.

Yeah.

But this is what I know for sure a couple years ago in Brazil, they made this research about healing, healings happening in churches.

And they decided to interview people that needed a healing, and it was healed.

In the service or just in general?

In general, okay.

In general, not it's not service related.

It was just people that needed a miracle miracle, and a miracle happened.

And but they were part of a church, part of a church, yeah, but not necessarily the miracle happened in the service.

Got it.

And they discovered something very interesting, and I think this is what I'm trying to say here 95% of the cases that people uh 95% of them that were healed, they had no health insurance.

So what does that mean?

It means there was no other way.

Exactly.

They had no other option.

Exactly.

When I have the option, I go to the doctor, I buy the medicine, I but when I do nothing else, I run to Jesus.

I don't see a problem of us having health insurance or being a billionaire as long as God is still being our first way or our first answer, or you know, because when you're a billionaire, I'm not one, but I'm so far, but I can assume your first answer for everything will be your money.

You know, having money is not the problem.

The problem is when God is not your first answer.

Having health insurance is not a problem, the problem is when God is not your first answer.

Uh because when it's not a first first answer, you're not in the in that dependent dependency uh place or position.

Yeah.

So you're not inviting the Holy Spirit to be part of this.

You're just saying, hey, you stay right there because I know how to deal with this.

Um so yeah.

It was briefly touched on uh in the sermon, and depending on your background, the way that you you grew up, the way that you've encountered other people who have um taught about the Holy Spirit, or who have tried to shepherd those uh along the way of this journey of knowing the Holy Spirit.

There's a difference between being filled with the Spirit, but having the Spirit live inside you.

So basically, Pastor Clay explained it when you accept Jesus, okay, you accept him as your Lord, as your savior, you then And by default, we are given the Holy Spirit, right?

But there's also other instances where you can be filled with the Spirit in a different manner.

And Pastor Keith, sorry if we're uh jumping the gun here into like week three of this series, but this is where we're at.

Exactly.

We're gonna talk about it.

Um what's been your experience?

What's your understanding of that?

Because I don't even really know.

I grew up in a very traditional, conservative, you know, fundamental household and and background.

So my the Pentecostal uh side of my knowledge is is is few and far between, is what I'm saying.

It's very small.

Okay.

So yeah.

Um before I I answer not answer, but before we talk about this, I would love to mention something that it's very very weird to me here here in America.

Because every time I hear someone saying the term Pentecostal, this is a Pentecostal church.

I have the impression that they are talking about a church that do weird stuff.

Um, this is not actually true.

A Pentecostal church, at least theologically speaking, it's a church that believes that the Holy Spirit still moves today.

My church in Brazil is very Pentecostal, meaning we believe that the Holy Spirit is still around us, it still can manifest in miracles and signs.

Basically, the way that it manifested at Pentecost till now is what you're saying.

Exactly.

So so nothing, nothing has changed.

Dispensationalism would say that there was a certain time frame in which kind of like what but that's I think that's the argument is you know, Old Testament or pre-Jesus, you even said yourself that it operated a certain way.

But what you're saying is that someone who is a part of a Pentecostal church is basically believing that since then there's no difference.

Because we are all in his new covenant, there's no difference.

Okay, exactly.

Yeah, so I don't if there is any difference between the apostles' days and today, show me in the Bible.

Yeah, like show me where the Bible says, so the Holy Spirit was available for 70 years or whatever.

I don't see that, you know.

So what I was trying to say is so my church in Brazil is very Pentecostal.

So we believe in miracles, we we believe in prophecy, we believe in speaking in tongues, but it's not a weird church.

Does that make sense?

If you go to the service, you won't see anything weird, but we still believe.

Uh so I just wanted to mention that because every time I hear someone here in America, someone saying it's a Pentecostal church, the majority of the times is related to how weird they are and not so much to what they believe.

So I'm I'm Pentecostal.

I believe that the Holy Spirit is still available for us as it was in Acts.

At Pentecost.

I still believe in that.

And I see the difference.

So so when Jesus when Jesus ascend, is that the word?

Ascend, yeah.

He said, Hey, I'm going to send you guys the word in Greek parakletos, which is uh the comforter.

Uh and he will be with you guys.

So I I I believe that when we pretty much what you said, when we accept Jesus as as our savior and our Lord, the Holy Spirit now is living inside of us.

Okay.

Um and we all experience that we we all experience some things that it's a proof of that.

Okay.

For example, when you know you're about to do something that you shouldn't, if God lives inside of you, you should hear a voice saying, Don't do it.

Don't do it.

This is not a good idea.

Right.

And this is the Holy Spirit inside of you leading you to a place of holiness, to a place of, you know, this is different than the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

And then as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, we we need to break down in three things, which is the baptism with the Holy Spirit, one, the second one, the fruits of the of the spirit, two, and three, the gifts of the spirit.

So we pretty much are talking about uh Acts chapter two, uh fruits, Galatians chapter five, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, first Corinthians chapter twelve, if I'm not wrong.

Okay, three different manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit, the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking speaking in tongues.

Is the only evidence?

Not at all.

It's just one of the evidences.

Do I believe this is available for everybody?

Yes, I believe it is, because I don't see why not.

I don't see in the Bible this Paul saying this is just for a group of people.

There's a lot of confusion around this, and we can have an episode just to talk about this.

But in Corinthians and also in in Galatians, when Paul talks about specifically about specifically about the Holy Spirit, he's talking about three different manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Okay.

So the the baptism with the Holy Spirit, I think it's available for everybody.

The second manifestation is the fruit of the fruit of the spirit, and this is a consequence of the Holy Spirit living inside of you.

So He's developing in you those characteristics that will make you a better believer, make you a better follower uh of Christ.

And the third is definitely the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and this is the manifestations that we see.

I can share with you one experience I had about 16 years ago I went to this to this park to talk to spread spread uh the message, and then I saw this guy, and he was man, he was hurt it.

He was he he was bad.

He his body was full of uh scratches, it it was it was bad.

And then I felt God, I felt God telling me go go talk with him, and then I went um and then I start talking about God and Jesus, and he was very like I this is weird, I don't know why you're talking about with with this about this with me, and then bro, it I know it can sound it whatever, I would just say I felt the Holy Spirit telling me tell him you know he had an accident with his motorcycle, and then I was like, I was debating with God inside of me, like I I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that because what are the chances and sharing about Jesus, the guy very skeptical, and God tell him about the motorcycle, and then at some point this was unsustainable anymore, and then I just said, Hey man, I'm I'm so sorry, but I need to tell you this.

I feel God He wants me to tell you He knows about your motorcycle accident, and then the guy was like, What?

Who told you this?

Who told you this?

This is impossible.

Do you know me?

Do you know my family?

How do you know?

And then I I just told him, Hey, I don't know you, but I know a God who knows you.

And then the guy was like, Oh my gosh, what's happening?

The guy went to church next Sunday, the guy surrendered his life to Christ.

So, what happened there?

It wasn't one of the manifestations of of the Holy Spirit that the Bible calls gifts of the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't happen every day, it doesn't happen.

Uh it's not a what was that gift?

What what what do you classify that gift?

Well, I think a lot of people would would uh uh classify that in in different categories.

For me, that was a in Portuguese we say doing a translation word of knowledge.

Um it was not a prophecy because I was not talking about the future, and it was not a word of of wisdom because I was not giving any advice.

I just knew about something that happened uh in the past, and then I just told him.

Yeah, and he was like, Oh my gosh.

So Paul says a lot of times in his letters, let's preach the gospel and show signs and wonders and miracles.

And I think this is what he's talking about.

He was the guy who was so skeptical, and then when the Holy Spirit manifests right there, the guy was like, Oh my gosh, how do you know this?

I didn't know that, I just knew because I believe the Holy Spirit gave me a word of knowledge.

What's the term in English?

I don't I don't know.

Word of acknowledgement.

I don't know.

Uh we can check that in 1 Corinthians 12.

And uh so that was a manifestation of the of the Holy Spirit.

Um, so baptism, fruits, and gifts.

Yeah.

What so I want to give you my side of this, if that's okay with you.

Of course.

I struggle with I struggle with wanting to see those things.

Obviously, who wouldn't want to see a miracle, a genuine miracle of God?

Who wouldn't want to see that, right?

Who wouldn't want to be a part of something supernatural here in in the here and now, right?

At times, though, I think we want that so much that the other the other categories that you mentioned are put on the back burner.

You're right.

So let's go back to Jesus, the Pharisees, all the time, give us a sign.

Mark chapter 7 or 8, I think, you know, Jesus gets in the boat and he's like, Alright, I'm done with you.

Mark 7 · chapter mention

He you know what I mean?

And and he says that multiple times, or at least we have accounts of that, you know, a few different times of him saying, like, I'm not giving you a sign, like I am who I say I am.

But then on the other side, we get to see some of these miracles and stuff.

So I'm I'm assuming there's a difference between a miracle and uh what the Pharisees were wanting, because apparently it wasn't enough for them.

And and and this is immediately after he feeds 4,000 people with two loaves.

You know what I mean?

So is this not enough?

Like what other sign do you need?

And then we jump ahead and in into the epistles and and Paul talking about if I had all the if I spoke in every tongue in the world, if I you know had all these heavenly languages basically, and I didn't have love, it's it's pointless.

So when I look at that, I think sometimes I can shift to the extreme of I don't need to see these things in order for me to trust God, in order for Him to be my Lord.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

And so I'm concerned for people who crave that so much because if they don't get that, it's almost like God's letting them down and he's not who he says he is.

Does that make sense?

Totally.

And I I I totally understand what you're saying, and I think you're right.

A couple of things I wanted to mention on that same verse you mentioned 1 Corinthians uh chapter uh 13.

When Paul is talk Paul is talking about love, the last verse of that section, Paul says, so now the most important three things is faith, hope, and love.

Faith is pretty much what activates miracles, right?

What activates this relationship, right?

Hope is pretty much our expectations or our yeah, our expectation to live with Cain, to meet Cain one day, and love, which is pretty much we know what it is, and then Paul says the most important thing is love.

So I think he's putting together a list of three very important things, but he's saying love is the most important one, right?

Because at the at the end of the day, it's not about the miracles, it's about love, it's not about your hope, it's about love.

And we know that love is a person.

God is love for me is the most important verse in the Bible.

So Paul is saying at the end of the day, it's not about your faith, it's not about miracles, it's not about hope, it's not about heaven, it's about love.

Meaning it's about God.

That experience that Jesus had with that with those ten lepers?

I think we see that, and it's it's it's the perfect image of what you're saying.

Jesus healed in nine of them was like, okay, I saw the miracle, I'm good.

I'm good, thanks.

One of them got back and said, I got the miracle, but as soon as I got the miracle, I realized something.

That most important that then the miracle is the God who made the miracle.

The other ten, the miracle was their God.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, for that guy, he was like, Okay, the miracle is amazing, but what about who who did this?

It's more is the most important thing ever.

So I think the issue starts when the miracles, the signs, the wonders start being start taking the place of God.

You know, yeah, because sometimes God will manifest with miracles, and sometimes it will be just a whisper.

So I I see what you're saying.

Yeah, uh I seek the Holy Spirit, I want the Holy Spirit, I want to see the wonders and and and miracles, but that's not the point.

The point is I have a God who can perform this and he will, or maybe not, but he's still God.

Yeah, yeah, and Yeah, and maybe that's just my You are so serious.

I am serious, okay.

Like in this moment or in my life.

In this moment, well, it's a serious topic.

Okay, and so I think I'm serious right now because my my wheels are turning, and that's why you're seeing my countenance appear the way that it does.

Because I'm really trying to think through this because I've I'm I'm I've been in both worlds, you know what I mean?

I've been in the the hyper fundamentalist dispensational world, and I've been in the more charismatic Pentecostal world, and it's just a shame that they don't coexist.

Exactly.

Isn't it crazy that on the churches that very what's what's the word I want to say here?

They're very strong in the word in the word of God, very strong.

The theology is spectral.

Doctrine doctrine on those churches we see no miracles at all.

The opposite side is we see a lot of miracles happening on the churches that the word, the doctrine, the theology is not the most important thing ever.

I dream with the day that we're we'll be able to combine the two words, you know.

Sorry, the two worlds.

Yeah.

A church full of miracles and science, but very strong in a word, in a doctrine, and a theology.

Why why why is that?

I don't know, man.

Is it personality types?

I I I think it's almost like I don't know what it is.

It's it's I've been in both words and I appreciate both words.

I think I think you know that I I'm I really love the theology and the books and the doctrines, but I cannot leave off of that.

I love the miracles, I love the signs, I love you know being in a service, and then out of no nowhere you're crying because because God just talked to you and you you know, but I cannot leave out of my emotions as well.

So I cannot leave out of my knowledge, I cannot leave out of my emotions.

It's it will be amazing to find a place where the two worlds, and I'm not talking about a church, I'm talking about the two sides have a reconciliation, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

Um I think uh one day we'll see this happening in Jesus' name.

Absolutely.

What has been your progression uh with your relationship with with the Holy Spirit, particularly?

Like how have you seen it over the years?

Has how has has it shifted?

Has it been consistent?

And and what I mean by that is in any relationship you start to see different sides of people, I think.

So has that been the case with God?

I I think so.

And this is something that I hate to admit.

I think when I was a little bit younger, I think I was way more emotional about the subject.

And then when I when I turned 17.

When you say emotional, do you mean passionate?

Passionate, yeah.

Yeah.

And when I turned 17 and I when I joined the the seminary and all the books all the books I read, I think I'm not denying this, but I am way more it's almost like I think I'll give you a great example.

I love music theory.

I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

But at the end of the day, music theory doesn't make music.

You need to take your instrument and play.

So if there's a guy who knows a lot of music theory but don't play, it's just knowledge.

Yeah.

If if we have a guy who knows how to play but doesn't know music theory, he will be miserable.

He's limited, he's so limited.

I think I I love music theory more than I love playing.

I think it's the same thing with the Holy Spirit.

I love the theory more today, unfortunately, than playing.

In the past it was the opposite, you know.

Uh so it's pretty much what I was trying to say before, how we combine those two words.

Of course, I still believe, of course, I see things happening all around me every day, if I just open my eyes.

But in the past, I think I was in it in this position of dependency way more than today.

And uh daily or at least weekly, I feel God inviting me to go back to this place, you know, to go back to the place of being passionate about it.

Have the knowledge, of course, study about it, read it, read read about it, but don't stop there.

You know, yeah.

Um, this is me being a hundred percent vulnerable because I would love to to tell you, hey man, on this subject, it's 1010 to me.

For me, I've been living my best life with the Holy Spirit.

I don't think it's the case.

I think I think I know the theory way more than I know um you have more reason than relationship at this point.

I think so.

I think so.

Not that I don't have a relationship with him, but I I would love to see more of the manifestation.

The fruit of that.

The fruit of that, and I don't seek that anymore.

You know?

Yeah.

What do you what would you say to someone who's new to this journey?

And they're they're open, their hearts are open, and they're wanting to see more of God in their life, and they're and they're wanting to interact more with the Holy Spirit and they're and they're wanting to understand his will for them.

But they're not experiencing that.

Perhaps.

What what what do you say to them?

How how do you how do they continue on?

Oh, I have a lot to say, but I'll try to be brief.

Keep it simple.

I think it's pretty much the summary of everything we said.

I think the first thing ever, the most important, is put yourself in this place of dependency.

If you don't if you don't do that, you will I don't think you will ever be you'll never experience that.

If you don't invite God to be part of your every single detail of your life, you won't you won't experience that.

I think that's point one.

I think point two is believing him.

You know, I think that's going back to the theory and uh and actual experience believe in him.

Believe in what you in what you read in your Bible.

Don't just know it.

Just exactly, just don't know it.

Don't stop there.

Believe it, you know, believe it.

And I think the third thing is ask.

Ask God.

Hey, you know, I'm here.

I put myself in this dependence place.

I believe what your Bible says about the Holy Spirit.

I want to experience.

Can you open my eyes?

Can you make me understand?

And I think this is exactly what Paul is saying.

He said, seek the gifts.

Seek the gifts.

The prophecy is the most important one.

So he's encouraging us to pray about it, to talk about it with God, because it's available, you know.

Yeah.

So I think that that's that's what I would say.

It's available, believe in it, ask for it, and you will see it.

Amen.

Thank you, brother.

Thank you, brother.

Appreciate you being on here and sharing your wisdom.

It's a pleasure.

All right, love you, dude.

Love you.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationomermell.org.