After the Message: Oh, Oh, It's [NOT] Magic

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

Folks, when you hear that jingle, you know what time it is.

It's after the message.

If you're uh if you're new to uh this podcast or maybe you stumbled upon it, you are on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast, and this is After the Message.

Um simply it's just a time where we talk about the previous Sunday sermon, and uh we hope it encourages you to do the same thing.

My name is Nate, uh, and today making her after the message debut.

Welcome to After the Message Hope.

Thank you so much.

I feel like I'm good.

I feel like this is like a first-time caller, long time listener situation.

I love it.

Honored to be here.

Good deal.

Hope for maybe the people um who don't know.

Why don't you give a little bit of insight into what you do here at Celebration Church?

And uh yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm over our serving teams.

Um, so all of our volunteers serving, just helping them get on board, and it's awesome just getting to know them and and see how well people care for our church.

I'm blown away.

Um, I'm also over care.

So when people reach out for help for different things, um, I help to kind of connect them with the resource or a person to help get them through that season.

And then I help with equip as well, which we just kind of had our first equip night a couple weeks ago.

First equip in a while.

Yeah, which is great, which was awesome.

So we're looking forward to more of those for sure.

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh Hope is basically like if you need a next step in in the church, like you talk to Hope about it, right?

Because she's able to point you to a plethora of different options, and so uh thankful for you.

But Hope, how long have you been a part of Celebration Orlando?

Gosh, it's been a while, right?

It has been a while.

Like, I wanna say goodness.

Let's see.

So we just celebrated our seventh anniversary.

Yeah.

And I remember I think I had just been able to start coming more when we celebrated our second anniversary.

Okay.

Five years.

So I guess five years.

Five is simple math, yeah.

Um, and you you started serving shortly after, is that correct?

Or yes.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Started serving um, well, actually not too not too shortly after.

I had a work schedule that was really difficult.

I pretty much had to work on Sundays after service, and then I would close work till like 1 a.m.

the night before, so I was like, okay, I don't know that I can sacrifice and get there early.

Yeah.

So I remember I signed up for two mission trips and did two different ones, and that was really um first one went to Nicaragua, okay, and then the second one went to Uganda.

Oh wow.

Both of which were incredible, but I feel like I just had to do that because I was like, I am not allowing time for God in my life, and like I just need to commit to this, and then after that, someone encouraged me to audition for worship, so started doing that after I went to Uganda.

Nice.

What um we'll get to we'll get to the message portion here in a second, but uh through your missions trips, like what were maybe one or two things that you just you walked away with and stuck with you, or two things maybe you learned or you didn't know about yourself or you didn't know about the world, like or maybe just one thing twos maybe.

I mean, I think it's always amazing to go somewhere and see the ministries and the organizations that are already like on the ground doing so much.

So it's incredible to be able to see what they're doing and just help to support them because I mean there are people who are giving everything every single day, and that's incredible.

And then I also think it's amazing how when you're on a missions trip, like you just have this expectancy for God to move.

And I feel like we should have that every day, and so it's a good reminder, but it's not always natural.

But when you're on that trip, you know, you don't have any distractions, you're not thinking about other things, and so you're just so expectant for God to move.

And so I think like learning to begin to carry that with me in my normal life was a huge, huge takeaway.

And you just threw up a softball for me to knock this segue out of the park.

Do it because that's exactly what we were we're talking about uh with the second sign in our in our sign series that we're doing, an immersive series to the Gospel of John, and we're talking about the miracles that that Jesus did, seven unique miracles that are recorded only in this gospel, and um and and we're calling it, and it's even referred to in the Bible as signs because it points to Jesus as being God, the Messiah, the promised one.

Um and this the second sign up in particular shows the expectancy of someone and then Jesus showing up.

So kind of like you were referring to with your with your missions trip.

Um but but first before we kind of get into a little bit more detail about that, what you know, we've been going through this journal every day together uh as a church, and and it's been it's been fruitful and it's been um it's been challenging, and it's just been fun to to be a part of something like this as a church family.

So um what so far has kind of been maybe something that stuck out to you or been your favorite part about the journal that we're doing?

I think it was just great to kind of like interrupt my normal routine in regards to the way that Vinny and the team wrote this journal and just the reflections in it, even in like okay, paraphrase this or come up with a new title for this passage.

Like, I love that because I would not normally do that in my time reading the word.

So I was like, oh, this is awesome.

Like it really does just open up new ways for you to think about things.

Yeah.

So I've enjoyed that.

Yeah, it's definitely uh, like you said, it's definitely good to to disrupt the norm sometimes because we can especially in something like a a personal devotion, you can kind of become complacent and check the box and stuff.

So this has been a good, not only a good resource for people maybe starting this journey for the first time in their lives, but people who've been doing it for a while, they're able to to have a a fresh perspective, you know what I mean?

So um let's talk about Sunday in particular.

Let's talk about you know, specifically Sunday and and Pastor Petey being here.

What do you think of Pastor Petey?

He's so awesome, he's so great.

Like, I kind of like I guess I shouldn't say this.

I feel bad when I describe him to people because I'm like, he's so funny.

Like if he wasn't a pastor, he could be a comedian.

But I like mean it in the best way.

I don't mean to like sound like I'm discrediting who he is, like, but he just has I think that's unique.

Like you don't see that in the church world a lot of times, you know, you see more serious disposition, and he has that when he needs to have it, but he also just brings something different to the table, and I think it's just so fun.

It's he did a phenomenal job, and he's also so smart.

Like that's the cool thing, is he's so funny, but then he also, you know, has all this like scholarly wisdom, and you're like, okay, you're just unexpected, and I love it.

Is that the first time that you'd heard him?

Because that was the first time for me.

Yeah, that's the first time I'd heard him like do a do a sermon.

So yeah.

I mean, I'd heard him in staff settings and stuff like that, but but never uh never like actually heard him preach.

So yeah, it was awesome.

Unique style, great perspective.

Like you said, um, you know, Pastor Keith does a really good job at providing context and and I think that's one thing that uh perhaps the modern um the modern teaching is lacking a little bit.

Yeah.

Um Pastor Keith does that really well, but Pastor Petey did a phenomenal job at going a little bit deeper, you know what I mean.

When I was when I was thinking about what are we gonna talk about on After the Message, it's like Pastor Petey covered it all, but I know he really did.

But uh it it was uh it was super beneficial even for me, you know, to learn.

And I can I obviously not in the uh the doctorate uh stage of of further education, but I'm definitely in school now.

So it kind of um it kind of gave me something to look forward to.

Like, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna learn about this stuff.

And who knew that there was a study on sin?

Who knew?

And that he's chosen to do his PhD on this.

He needs to come back and do another, like I need to hear like a you know what?

He needs to do an equipment.

Oh yes.

That's what he needs to do.

Yes, he does.

That would be awesome.

That would be awesome.

Maybe we can hook him up with some Disney tickets or something to entice him to come down.

We'll do what we need to do.

Yeah, there you go.

Um I I'm I hadn't ever really heard the the passage put this way at the beginning, but he he mentioned how it's one of the most controversial or arguably the most controversial of the miracles.

Um which which was interesting to me.

Um but his I I loved what he said about um, you know, when he was a youth pastor, he would always say, All right, guys, when your parents pick you up and ask you what you learn, here's what you tell them.

And so he gave it to us right off the battery.

I bet those parents were impressed too.

I would be impressed.

Absolutely.

Like, wow, they actually learned something.

But you know, it's like the teacher giving you the answers to the test.

But he's he said at the beginning, this was kind of set the precedent for the entire message was genuine signs yield genuine faith.

Genuine signs yield genuine faith.

And and so what he kind of juxtap juxtaposed juxta why can't I say that word?

What he compared that to uh was the Greek uh understanding of signs and wonders equaling magic, right?

Yeah.

And how that was basically a business model um to try and push agendas just by doing magic.

And and so he compared that to this is not magic, this is actually miraculous, and and there's a difference.

Did you find that distinction interesting at all?

I really did, especially because and I mean I can certainly do better with like when you're bringing up you know historical context, you really don't think about that.

Like, oh wow, these people sometimes their expectation was just through magic, you know, like it's just interesting to to think about that, and especially back then how serious some of them may have taken it, you know.

So I hadn't really ever thought about that, but it yeah, it was really interesting.

And and I think one of the the great way that he tied it in too was how in our modern context we can still be looking for the same thing from God.

Yeah, and he shared that incredible story and heartbreaking story too, but as it you know, his father uh passing unexpectedly and then wanting a sign from God that just seemed a little bit more like a magic trick than it would be a miracle.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I feel like we're all guilty of that.

I mean, I don't know if you've done it.

I've done I mean it wasn't in a heartbreaking situation, but I think like probably everyone, and you see it even in movies too, where people are like, God, I I just need a sign, I need a sign, and I think sometimes, yes, that could happen, you know, as we're talking about when there is faith attached to it, but I think we're all guilty of just asking for it.

But it is truly asking for magic, which is so silly when you really think about it.

Uh do you think it has anything to do with we're we're not good, and I don't know if anybody in any generation ever was, but we're not really good at suffering, right?

Oh yeah, like we love our comfort, we love things to be exactly how they are, how we want them to be.

We can pretty much customize our entire lives.

Yeah, you know what I mean, with the advancements in technology, yeah.

And so anything hard or difficult or trial comes our way, it's like, God, get me out of this, get me out of this, get me out of this.

And one thing that I think Pastor Keith has reiterated uh to me several times, and something I've kind of taken away from him is you know, w what what can we learn through this?

Like how can we grow through these types of things?

Exactly.

Has there ever been like times in your life where and you don't have to go into specific detail, but just trials where where you're you look back and you go, Man, I'm actually kind of thankful that I went through that because it's made me a a better person.

It's made me a stronger believer.

Yeah.

I mean, absolutely.

I have.

I mean, of course everyone's like, oh, over the past two years, everything, but it's like, I mean, I lost my job and never thought I would lose my job, and I'm so thankful that I did because it brought me here to be on staff and has changed my life in so many ways.

But you know, I think it's you're right, it's especially in US culture.

Like I I can't remember where I was reading recently, but they were talking about the difference that you see in prayers sometimes in US versus other places, and it's exactly what you're saying.

Whereas third world countries have walked through similar things to what we're experiencing with COVID.

And oftentimes you see their pastors and their prayers asking for strength to get through it and asking to learn through it.

Whereas in the US, we're experiencing that shock right now for the first time.

So I mean exactly what you said, but yeah.

Um when you were going through when you were going experiencing that job loss, the uh something you never thought that you would have, because you had a a great job at the happiest place on earth.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

What what what were your prayers like in those moments and what do you remember talking to God about it?

Like was it a lot of questioning?

Was it a lot of w what kind of were you talking up to him about?

It was definitely definitely questioning.

Um, you know, I had been there for 13 years, and when you're used to something, it's shocking when that is taken away from you, you know.

Yeah.

Um and just asking that he leads me next where I need to be.

And just feeling like my faith grew exponentially because I was truly relying on God for one of the first times in my life.

Like it's so easy to think that you have faith, but when you have uh some type of an unknown, whether it's a loss of a job or a loved one or or something, you know, that will push your faith exponentially.

Yeah.

And we all have different kind of understandings and interpretations of what faith actually means.

So I I I love the fact that that Pastor Petey uh spoke on that a little bit, uh, and and what you know the Bible considers to be to be true faith, and comparing it to uh the official's son being healed and and the official's faith was not something that was just a one and done, right?

It was something where he said, No, I believe that you are who you say that you are, and this is actually going to change the tr trajectory of my entire life.

But what what kind of was your background growing up and and how did you how was that how was faith expressed and were miracles a part of the conversations that you you and your church family had and and all that stuff because I know everybody's has a little bit of different context.

I mean, I would say I grew up in um more of like a a kind of quieter Southern Baptist environment, I would say.

Um so I mean, yes, we did have examples of some miracles, um, and we certainly, you know, always wanted to increase our faith, and and my parents were always diligent about, you know, praying for things and and being faithful.

But I think it's definitely different now, and as I've grown in my faith, like really thinking about okay, what does that mean to truly believe and have faith for something that you really think may not happen?

Like not just throwing a prayer up to God asking for it, but truly believing in it.

And I think it was really interesting because I heard, and I don't remember where I heard it, um, but someone was saying, like, when you're when you're praying small prayers, you're not praying the big prayers that you you should be asking for with that kind of big faith.

Like you're basically trying to protect God's reputation.

And I remember hearing that and being like, oh yeah, am I trying to protect God's reputation if it doesn't happen?

Like, he doesn't need that, he's God.

Like, am I trying to protect my reputation to myself by not asking these?

And it just doesn't make sense.

So I think as I've gotten older, I think the conversation about miracles and and more dependence on faith has become more present.

Um and my prayers have kind of gotten bigger through the years too.

That's incredible perspective.

You know, why why try and protect God's reputation?

That's so silly.

Yeah, but it's true, like we all do it.

And I've never really thought of it that way, to be honest with you.

Because you know, what happens if you there's always the what if game, right?

Yeah.

Like what happens if you don't see the sign?

What happens if you don't see the miracle, the healing, the the breakthrough, so to speak?

Um He's still God, right?

Yeah.

And that's sometimes a tough pill to swallow.

It is.

Um that you're asking or you're needing something, and perhaps it doesn't come through the way in in which you thought it was.

But at the end of the day, he doesn't really need to he doesn't owe anyone an explanation, right?

Exactly.

Exactly.

So I think that's that's really good perspective, something something to walk away with.

And a a great um a great book on this is actually dangerous prayers.

Have you read that?

Um, I actually have not, but I went to Life Church.

That was the church that kind of changed my life when I was in college.

So I'm a big fan of Pastor Craig Groschell.

So I need to read it.

Yeah, he wrote a he wrote a book on that too.

So definitely recommend that if uh if you want to learn how to have your faith increase through prayer.

But uh another really, really key component to this message that Pastor Petey brought was um the idea around salvation.

And we all, again, have different backgrounds, understandings, interpretations.

Um this will be something that will be debated, uh has been debated through the centuries and will continue to be until the return of Christ.

So uh but but I I think he I think he hit it the nail on the head.

Um belief is important, but faith takes it to another level, right?

So believing, and he used the example of the demon-possessed man in in Mark chapter five, I think, and talking about how well the demon The demon wasn't saved, right?

Yeah, you're like oh when he said that I was like, what?

But you're right, he wasn't.

But he brought up he brought up the importance of allegiance, right?

What do you think of when you hear the word allegiance?

Well, I mean I I hear the pledge of allegiance.

That's the first thing that comes to my head, honestly.

Yeah.

But it's a profession, right?

It is.

It's a profession.

I pledge allegiance to the flag, which I think of you know, anyways.

Uh that's true.

It's so so I think it was it was important for him to to kind of make that that distinction, that that salvation, yes, through the act of a belief internally and through the act of professing with your mouth you're expressing your allegiance, but it's not necessarily activating your allegiance, right?

Right.

So uh I I b I just believe that that was a a great way for us to to dive a little bit deeper into what true faith actually is.

Um and and I love the fact that he talked about faith being ongoing.

I mean how difficult how difficult can that be?

Like a lot of times we look at these and and think like okay, Jesus did did the miracle, great, cool, thumbs up, walk away.

But this is actually a an ongoing process.

So like you said, it's an activation.

And I love that.

I love that thought.

And I I feel like there's still so much more activation we can all do in our own lives.

Yeah, for sure.

What are um what are some things maybe after listening to to the message that that challenged you or maybe even just through this series, maybe some themes that have been coming up that that have kind of been challenging for you through through the book of John?

Oh man.

If any, maybe you just got it figured out, hope.

No.

Certainly I do not have it all figured out.

Um, goodness.

I mean, even though I I feel like I've already talked about it, like as far as being expectant, and I I feel like it all truly goes together.

Like obviously John was trying to tell us something.

Um, but as far as just being expectant and helping my faith to grow, and just, you know, even when they're talking about, even when um John the Baptist is just talking about, okay, here's who God is, or who here's who Jesus is.

Yeah, this is who is coming.

Yeah, like just that reassurance of who he is and just letting that soak in and just letting that activate again, activate your faith and your life, like activate the way God wants us to live.

Like it's just been a great refresher for me so far, but also just like another fresh start type of a feeling, you know?

Yeah, for sure.

What um what are some have you ever I guess seen like an actual miracle take place or heard a a testimony or a story of one that is just radical?

Oh man.

I mean, I know I've definitely I'd have to think about it because I'm like, I know I've definitely heard stories um of healings and and different things.

I remember when I was younger um being at a youth service and someone had been on a mission trip somewhere.

It was one of the youth pastors, and he talked about how something had happened and they had like a a bag of toys for these young kids, like for Christmas, and something had happened and all the toys had been stolen.

But he was saying that there were only three toys in there, but as they reached into the bag, more toys just kept coming out, and I remember hearing that, and honestly, I I didn't know if I believed it to tell you the truth.

I know it's horrible, but I was like, there's no way.

Like, there's no way, you know, you hear things like that, and it's I don't know, it's it can be hard to believe.

Yeah, for sure.

But we should believe it.

Yeah.

Because God is God.

Like He can make miracles happen.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think uh for me, I heard um I heard a story of someone who I forget, I think they were in South America, and again, you know, third world country, but um there was actually like someone actually had their eyes open, like blind.

Wow blind eyes open, like they someone touched their their eyes.

They had been blind since birth and and had and had seen uh seen darkness their whole life, you know what I mean?

I can't even imagine like what that would be like.

No.

But uh I I do I do like the fact that the journal has pointed us in the direction of not just these massive moments, right?

Right.

We even had a a day where we listened to the song, you know, what uh you know, all the all the little miracles that that God has done for us.

And I think it's important to to kind of reflect on even the little things that that God's blessed us with for sure.

So And acknowledging them as miracles.

Because I think sometimes we think a miracle can only be reaching into a bag and toys or or someone blind being healed, but it's like, no, God's hand is in the smaller moments and those are still miracles.

Like it's important to name them and acknowledge them.

Yeah.

Even the fact of of salvation, you know, I'll I often think to myself and sometimes even say out loud to myself, like, you know, if God never does anything else in my life, he's saved me and given me the gift of eternity, and that in itself is a miracle right there to be thankful for.

That's good.

So anybody that is a child of God has already seen a miracle in their life, whether they see a blind eye see, you know, a blind eyes open ever in their life, they see a real healing, they see toys come out of a bag miraculously.

It doesn't matter at the end of the day, you know, it does, it's cool to see and experience, but but man, like God saved you, right?

Is there anything else that that maybe kind of stuck out to you from from Pastor Petey's message or anything that you kind of wanted to to think about or or discuss a little bit more at all?

I don't think so, because I mean we kind of already talked about how the official was like an official of Herod, which is crazy in itself.

That I just think it's amazing that he would not just say, Okay, I'm gonna try this Jesus guy, I'm gonna try this and see if it works.

Like from the beginning, he had already said, I'm believing in Jesus and I am asking him to heal my son.

Like, I think that in itself is just that's incredible.

Yeah.

You know, being in the care department, I'm sure you and and we're all obviously a part of care in some way, shape, or form, but you face it more on a daily basis, the the struggle, right?

You you hear people that need got a move of God in their life all the time.

First question would be how do you how do you comfort people in those moments, right?

And how do you how do you speak truth in those moments to them and help them realize that God is still here and still with them?

Like what are some things that you like to typically remind them of?

Um, I mean, I think the most important thing is just first of all listening to them because so many times people may feel lonely or they may be in a situation with their their spouse or something where they they're just feeling like they're not being heard.

And in those times they may even doubt that God is hearing their prayers.

So I think just reminding them that God hears them, He is here with you, He's ahead of you too, He knows what's going to happen.

Like you are not alone through this situation.

I think that's probably the most important thing to remind them.

Um, and I think sometimes a lot of healing can come from listening as well.

Um, when you're not trying to just impart your own wisdom on that person, but letting the Holy Spirit take the reins.

You know, that's what we should be doing because through that you're gonna be able to strengthen their faith and and help lead them and help kind of open those doors for whatever the Holy Spirit wants to speak into their lives.

And then what are some what are some things that you do or how are you learning to um how are you learning to keep your faith strong and and and to stay to stay focused on on on Jesus whenever you see things happening to people, you know, on a daily basis and all that?

You just kind of have to stay rooted in in those miracles that God has done for you and just in in your personal faith and um again we keep saying expectancy, but just trying to renew that expectancy and and really asking God to heal these people.

Um because you don't want to drag yourself down into the middle of it and be too emotional where you're not able to help them because you're too bogged down in it yourself, you know.

You you have to stay rooted um in in God and who he is.

Yeah, for sure.

Um last thing, hope.

What is your favorite Disney park?

Oh man.

Oh, uh it's a tough decision.

I really love Epcot.

I love Magic Kingdom because it's a classic, but I love Epcot.

I love I'm like a Disney history nerd, so I love like the story of Epcot and how it's unique, and it's based more on experiences necessarily than attractions and the theming.

So that has to be my favorite.

It's it's so unique in itself.

Do you have any insider tips for for people going to Epcot, like what they should avoid, what they should make sure that they do, like what's someone that what's a tip that's gonna heighten the experience for someone going to Epcot for the first time?

Oh man, we got people listening all over the place, and they they may have not experienced it like you have.

I know.

I feel like goodness, and I'm so rusty too, because the park is like all under construction right now.

This future world is super under construction.

Okay.

Um, but I would say, I would say, you know what, just don't put pressure on yourself.

Maybe that's why I like Epcot, because the other parks, like sometimes you have pressure to get so many things done.

But maybe because Epcot is such a relaxed park, like I would say, okay, you can have your itinerary, like maybe plan different things.

If there's a certain type of food you like, you know, plan that restaurant, but just allow yourself time to wander and get lost in the theming because I think that's the most fun thing about Epcot.

You know, that is great advice, especially for someone like me who likes to check the boxes.

So much appreciated.

Anytime.

Oh, thanks for for coming on after the message.

Really appreciate you.

Love talking to you.

Uh, as always, you're uh you you are a joy, so I appreciate it.

I appreciate you.

Thank you, sir.

All right, guys, make sure you uh stick with us as we continue on in our our sign series, and we'll be talking about sign number three next week.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebration or l or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.