After the Message: Nothing Wasted

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

What's up everybody and welcome to After the Message.

If you uh are joining us stumbling upon this podcast, or maybe uh you know you've been listening for a while, you're on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast, and this is a segment we like to call After the Message.

Uh and it's just simply a conversation about the previous Sunday sermon.

Uh we hope it encourages you to do the same thing with your community as well.

Uh my name's Nate, and today I am joined by uh the lead pastor of Celebration Orlando, Pastor Keith Pittman.

Oh man.

Nate the Great.

How are we doing?

I'm doing great, brother.

Glad to be here, man.

Um I love I love watching your intro.

I just feel like we are at some point we're gonna say, you know, Celebration Orlando's after the message, sponsored by like I it's it's coming, man.

It's coming.

It just seems right.

So this is good stuff.

Yeah, hopefully it's like a coffee company or something like a local company.

Bro, that would be good.

I got a couple guys I can talk to about that.

Well, you let me know if they need whatever they need for me.

Okay.

I'm all for it.

As long as they give me some beans, because you normally get a whole coffee bean thing.

I know.

I got what what are you on?

Uh anything specific right now?

Anything different that you tried recently?

Any different concoctions?

You just going straight black, little cream and sugar.

What what you got?

It's funny you asked that, man.

So um I just ran out of like so.

When I first got my my coffee machine and with the beans and all that stuff, I um I was just getting all types of beans.

I knew nothing about things.

So I'm buying stuff that's like like store packaged, old.

I didn't know.

So then you had brought me some fresh beans and that kind of shifted it.

So um Daener will bring me back some beans from Jacksonville when she goes there, and I'm picking up beans from local spots, so that's been awesome.

But I just ran out of uh creamer yesterday.

Yeah.

So this morning when I got up, I said, man, I I quote unquote need coffee.

So, you know, need is a strong word, but I'm gonna stick with it.

Um I need some coffee, and so I went ahead and today was my first cup of coffee with my new coffee machine, um black.

And of course, it there's a little bit of an adjustment factor, but I can taste the difference in the quality of the beans.

Like you can taste the difference if you have good beans, and so I feel like it can help me to depend less on all the additives as if I can stick with it.

Now, here's the thing historically during fast season, I will drink coffee, but not do any like any additive, no cream, no sugar, none of that stuff.

And I always find myself about week two, I'm like, I can do this.

Week three, this is gonna be my reality from now on.

Bro, as soon as the fast is over, I'm like, give me every single cream that's on sale.

Buy one, get one.

I'm a double, like so.

Hopefully I can stick with it and then I can get to where you're at, mate.

I want to be like you.

Yeah, I'm I'm sipping on that credo right now.

So shout out to Credo.

They're their awesome local Orlando spot that we love here.

But um before we before we kind of jump into uh our discussion about this past Sunday.

Let's talk about unique November really fast and kind of uh you know just expand upon upon what we're doing.

You know, we've got the evening service on the 14th, we've got our serve day on the 21st, and church at home on the 28th, so a lot of different moving pieces, but some really uh exciting moving pieces and some pieces that I think are going to be fruitful and beneficial for us as a whole.

Absolutely.

If there's you know, we've historically um believed in in making a difference in our community and and and looking at every opportunity to do so.

Um what I think has happened, and you know, I keep refer you know, whether it be in messages or in conversations, we refer to this past season, and I know that can kind of seem what does that mean, and are we going to constantly refer to that?

But I think what the the pandemic season produced was um an awareness that church is more than coming to church on Sunday.

Um and of course I believe that that's been a part of how we functioned anyway, but I think it's challenged us to look at things differently.

So when I look at months like Unique November, it gives us an opportunity to make sure that even though we are gathering again, it doesn't mean that God still not called us to go out and make a difference in communities and things like that.

And so I love Unique November because it's gonna allow us to still honor our ability to gather while simultaneously able to scatter and go and make a difference in our community, which is inclusive of our home.

So when I look at it, I literally could not have choreographed this any better from coming to an evening service and inspiring the people who typically are serving on Sundays to be there and experience the culmination of this entire science series.

When I look at the 21st, um us actually going out into the community with families where your kids can be there and they can actually be um participants in that.

That literally changed um what servanthood looked like in my family when I was able to bring my entire family for to an outreach and serve, so we have that opportunity.

And then church at home, it's that that freedom of being able to travel and to be with family, but invite folks over.

And and here's the part that you may not often hear a lot about, but I'll I'll unapologetically say this.

I believe that what we do, and when I say we, at this point I'm speaking of like uh those of us who are in ministry specifically, our celebration Orlando staff, um, I believe that what we do is for us too.

And so, you know, I say that a lot.

So I believe in moments where you guys can be at home, where you can travel, you can go on vacation, you can be with your family.

Um, we can still have the responsibility of stewarding environments where we're putting God first and and worshiping together.

Um, but I believe it starts in our home.

And so what church at home allows us to do is for us to be participators and recipients of the very thing that we often um sacrifice to to provide for others.

So to me, it's literally going to probably be like my favorite month of the year where we have an opportunity to do literally to do everything in one month.

Man, I can't think of anything better.

Yeah, I I'm really looking forward to it, and and I know uh a lot of people are are looking forward to it in our community uh as well.

You know, speaking of uh the culmination of the sign series, we'll be uh spoiler alert talking about uh Lazarus on that that last Sunday, and I know uh you you've got something cooking for a while.

Do you want to leave any breadcrumbs or is it is it gonna be Oh man.

I'll I'll say this.

Every every message has been leading to this.

So the the biggest breadcrumb will be it's almost like you know, you can jump into season two of certain shows and and you'll be okay.

I would strongly suggest that you be you track along because I think it's all gonna come to like this powerful moment.

Here's my here's my cheesy um Marvel plug.

All right.

You can absolutely watch in game, you can watch it, but the but the magnitude of the other films will provide a greater depth and appreciation for what you see in end game sacrifices and things like that.

So that's what I'll I'll say that everything has been leading up to this.

So it'll be great as a standalone, but bro, the context and what I believe God's gonna do, um we're gonna snap and bring some people back.

I don't know.

Oh man, that's awesome.

And you know, in endgame, to go along with the analogy, like the explosions still look cool, the fighting still look so you can enjoy it to an extent, but like you said, without the full context, it's not gonna be one of those mind-blowing moments.

So we're really looking forward, really looking forward to that.

And that's kind of a reminder, I think, for all of us to continue to participate in the journal.

You know, at the beginning of the series, one of the things that you really encouraged everyone with was you know, don't quit just because you may not see immediate results, right?

Like stick to the journal, stick to the series, stick, stick to staying engaged with the church, with you know, after the message, all those things, like stay engaged with it because you know, we're we're believing that with our faithfulness to something, we'll actually see the the fruit of it and and the and the culmination of what God wants to speak through the through the series.

So make sure you you you guys are sticking.

If you miss a day, look, I literally missed a day, and I wrote down in my journal, I missed a day.

I'm just like everybody else.

You know what I mean?

So it's okay.

But you know what?

Same.

Same.

Like yeah, I'm I missed it, I missed, I think, two days.

Yeah.

Um, and I went back and I and I was able to catch up, and I'm grateful that the journal is is not so overwhelming that if you miss a day that you know it's you know how you have some of these Bible reading plans for the year and you're reading like 18 chapters in one day, you miss two days, you're like, man, I might as well just wait till next year.

Not that you should ever do that.

But what I'm saying is like sometimes you can feel so overwhelmed that you that you give up.

I think the journal is done in such a way, and the series is packaged in a way, that we know that life gets busy and we get sidetracked, there's no condemnation.

But it's easy not only to pick up where you left off at, but you can even go back and and recover and keep moving forward.

So hopefully that's what we walk away with from this.

Let's talk about Sunday.

Let's let's talk about um you know, nothing wasted.

I I think there's a a unique uh take and an outlook on a passage of scripture that to someone who's been in Christianity for a number of years may be really familiar with, right?

But I I think looking at um the disciples' perspective was something that really challenged me and kind of opened my eyes to to new uh windows in the story.

But uh so I I was trying as I was listening to kind of place myself in the scene, right?

Because, you know, we've talked about it before.

You can read scripture and often over-dramatize it, or you can you can not fully understand or comprehend or even appreciate the fact that this was this is history, this is real life, like these are scenarios that people actually experienced.

And so one of the things that, you know, if you've been in church any amount of time, you may have heard people touch on, but if you haven't been in church for a while, the Bible only refers to the number of men in the in in in the gathering there, but you said tw upwards of twenty thousand people.

Some scholars think that that there was there.

And I know that sounds like let me say this.

And and I know I realize that um the from a from a preaching pastoral uh context, you know, we could say, hey, some scholars.

What uh so what that ultimately means is um no one knows.

No one knows.

And so what they have basically have done is you have different academic writers who study culture and regions and context, um, and then other circumstantial evidence, whether it being, hey, there was a little boy there, which means that and so they're able to infer based off of that, build other narratives around it, look at the average family size and all that stuff, and that's how they were able to deduce that number.

But I try not to build a a doctrine or a theology or even an entire message on it because we don't know the facts, however, based off of the circumstantial evidence, there's enough to say we believe and we know that there was more than five thousand.

And so I've seen people go as high as forty.

Um, I've seen others go as low as ten, but I do know it was more than five.

But even if it was just five, my God, that's still amazing.

Yeah, and you just answered my question without me even asking it.

Like, what is that process like as far as determining something along those lines that m perhaps scripture doesn't necessarily specifically point to, but I think you summed it up well.

It's like whether it's five thousand or five thousand and one or four thousand and ninety-nine, you know, it just it doesn't matter that the fact that it was uh a a a meager amount of of food that that fed that many people, you know, obviously the miracle is in that, the sign is in that.

But look another thing you touched on that uh that I would love to spend a little bit more time on is uh Jesus not being ready to be crowned king, or Jesus not being ready to be crowned king in the way that the people thought that he should be crowned king.

Um and then you you you mentioned how uh his kingship in that moment would not allow him to necessarily transcend time without the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

That's a lot there, obviously, but that's what this is for.

So uh let's take a little bit of time and talk about that, if you would.

Absolutely.

So here's what scripture says about um like the life of Christ, and and by life I mean the life that he lived, the death that he died, and the resurrection that he um that he presented to all of us.

The reason why all of those things are significant is because not only does it it show his ultimate author authority and power and all those other dynamics, um, but it also allows him to defang and defeat death, but it also allows when he is resurrected to allow his sacrifice to transcend more than just a moment.

So what what what you'll find is if he were to live his life um and then die, let's say, then just a good man died, and now his his sacrifice is encapsulated in the time period that's represented.

But what the Hebrew, the writer of the book of Hebrew, says that that Christ died once and for all and was resurrected.

And so what that means is that that powerful resurrection then allows, which we've often said in church, that the sacrifice of Christ covers our past, present, and future sins.

Like that's that's the reason why it all had to take place.

So what many in the region where Jesus was at, uh, when they were expecting the Messiah to come, um they were expecting the Messiah to come like David.

And so what what David was, he was like the he was like the ultimate culmination of a of a godly king.

Though he was flawed, which we obviously know, he made his mistakes, which we obviously know, but yet God still said that I'm going to have someone that's going to come out of his lineage.

He said that I'm going to establish a throne after King David forever.

So there was still something about him, which was that he was a man after God's own heart.

So the people, even though they went from David to his son to all the chaos and drama, they always knew that David was the prototype ideal king.

Um, so he was going to be the ideal guy.

And what David represents, if we look at the David narrative, is that he took care of the Philistines, that David was a guy who was about that fight, like he was about that life.

Um so what they wanted was someone who could become king that could unite all of the Israelites, bring them back together, but also eradicate their opponents.

So that's what they're thinking of when they are thinking about a Messiah.

What I don't believe they considered is that that will still take place, but it has to take place spiritually first.

And so everything that the Philistines represented, all the oppression that they are experiencing, whether it be um through Philistines, whether it be through Greeks, Persian, Medes, now with Roman rule, that that that was the natural expression of a spiritual um oppression they were they were dealing with.

So the Messiah was going to come and first deal with the spiritual hierarchy before he puts things in its back rightful place.

So what happens when um when the prophets would talk about the the forecoming Messiah, there are moments they're speaking about his eternal kingdom, which is after Christ has already dealt with the dominion of death.

Isaiah had a unique perspective and understanding um the divine kingdom that that the Messiah is going to usher in, but most folks didn't focus on that.

All they were thinking about is immediate natural relief, which means that the truth was in front of their eyes, but they just didn't see it.

This is why Jesus was saying like, didn't you read that the Messiah had to suffer?

Didn't you didn't you understand that?

Like it's it's not hidden, but they were just thinking of immediate relief, which obviously lends itself to how we sometimes feel.

Yeah, exactly what I was gonna say is we can learn something from this.

We can learn that, you know, and we talk you talked about pain a lot, and we can touch on that a little bit later, but we can learn that just because we don't see manifestations of what we think God owes us or the way that God should come through for us, or the prayers that we pray aren't answered, and the methods that we think they should be answered does not mean that that God's not working on our behalf and the Holy Spirit doesn't have a plan already in place, you know.

So I think that's a great uh that's a great comparison to to still 21st century what what we wrestle with and what we go with is we want Jesus to be a king that we want him to be instead of the king that he knows that he's going to be, right?

Absolutely.

So it's the way we're wired, man.

We all want relief.

Right, for sure.

You touched on Joseph a little bit in the message, and I always love how we can tie the whole story together, the whole narrative of scripture and how it plays a part in it.

But but one thing that I think is um relative to everyone listening and to myself included is the idea of not letting the assumptions of others, the um not letting you know the comments or the the misunderstandings of others to to affect you, which is way harder to do uh to put into practice, right?

And and you know, if you're not familiar with the story of Joseph, he he basically set sh reveals to his own family, for goodness sake, like, hey, I think this is what God wants to do in my life, and and they end up rejecting him and abandoning him, you know, persecuting him and and and the like.

And you know, obviously the comparison is to Christ if you read into it, but um man, how how do we live that out?

How do we walk that out?

Because I know for me there are certain times where I just want to explain myself to people, but I won't get the opportunity to.

And I know that there's going to be misunderstandings about whether it be character, personality, circumstance, right?

Yeah.

How how how do we put our heads on the pillow at night, I guess, and have peace in that, knowing that we know what we know.

Do you get what I'm saying?

I think so.

So we're looking at like if we're looking at the the the Joseph narrative, and and are we talking about like God showing him, like, bro, you're gonna be in a position of incredible authority and influence and and Joseph sharing a a portion of that and obviously stirring up conflict, and you're asking, how do we if we're the Joseph in this in this story, how do we reconcile the resistance?

Yeah.

Okay.

Man, that's that's not easy.

Yeah.

And and I don't know if there's a I don't know if there's a single answer on on how to do that.

What I because here's here's what can happen.

Um on one side of the on one side of the coin, we have the utter confidence and peace, believing and knowing that we've heard from God.

Um what we don't have is we don't have control of time, we don't have control of how.

Um And so when we when we go and and share these things, or even if we begin to unpack these things and give a glimpse into these things, um, you can have one of two things.

You can have people that flat out disagree and speak negatively about it, which can cause you to doubt.

You can have two people who do agree.

And the scary thing is when they agree, they can try to accelerate it before it's time.

So I think it's I think it's a both and because if you look at that Jesus, um the moment that people began to kind of zero in, like, okay, this guy is the Messiah, well, let's force it to happen.

And I think that that is something that we have to resist as well.

But speaking on the negative side of it, man, I think it comes down to um finding, if we can, um at least a trusted confidant that can stand alongside you.

And that's me just being practical now.

I know that Joseph didn't necessarily have that, so I think for him, um, he had to anchor himself in knowing that he's heard from God and had to and had to walk out his journey.

And I don't think he would have obviously selected it, but he had to he had to stay true to um it.

In fact, he just had to he had to respond to what was happening to him through the lens of I know what God's gonna do through me.

And that's very different because I feel what can happen when we find ourselves facing opposition is we no longer respond from what God said, we react because of how we feel.

Right.

And I think maturity is the thing that determines the difference between the two.

I wonder if you and this is a ton of inference, but I wonder if Joseph maybe jumped too soon to share.

Um you think a lot about how I mean we even with Mary, she hid her she hid those things in her heart.

Um there's tons of times where Jesus could have said stuff, obviously, and he didn't.

So I'm wondering if it was even a moment of immaturity that led to what happened, and so God had to use what happened.

You know, do you get what I'm saying?

And I know that's I know that's going down a rabbit hole.

But I I think it's I think it's accurate because um again, this is inferring.

This is just just looking at the character of Joseph, understanding um that his father had favored him, his brothers felt some type of way about it.

David dealt with the same resistance from his brothers where he wasn't even invited in, kind of like the outcast, wasn't even included in the initial assessment of who's going to become king.

When David shows up to fight Goliath, his brothers are still like, Man, what are you even doing here?

So we see that family dynamics play a role, specifically when you're young.

So we have to remember um that Joseph wasn't the youngest, but I think he was like the second youngest.

So he was still a younger one.

And so in that time, it was all about the older.

The older, the older, the older, and then the younger just kind of was like the the he gets the remnants.

So when you have a younger person usurping an authority, that looks very prideful, it can look very arrogant.

You're going against the social structure that has been the way that we've existed, so to speak.

So I do think that we have to use discernment when we're when we're sharing something that completely Completely unconfronts um social norms, we have to be mindful.

We just have to use wisdom.

I mean, I think Jesus gives us permission with the with this application with like being as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.

We just got to use wisdom in making sure as I share this, is this something that can look prideful?

Is this something that can actually invite more friction than I need?

I always think I often say it this way I I deal with enough resistance.

I don't need to s I don't need to invite more.

Like I you we all deal with enough.

Yeah, yeah.

So let me just be mindful before I start doing too much that I'm um I find myself creating more.

So I do think as a person who has the advantage of having thousands of years of perspective after the fact that um I would probably say, Hey Joseph, man, why don't you hold on to that a little bit?

Don't low, don't let that out, man.

It's always fun to uh um Monday morning quarterback from you know thousands of years later.

But um speaking of social norms, uh you know, you you one of the quotes that that you said that I think really uh kind of hit home with with what we were talking about was the size of the problem.

Um don't let that corrode your faith, basically was what you were saying, like the magnitude of what what you may be facing, uh what you may be dealing with, don't don't let it corrode your faith.

But what and if we we'll never resolve this completely, but how does practicality play a role in faith?

Does it play a role in faith?

What are some misconceptions that we have about about faith and practicality and how they're related or unrelated?

Um and again, very broad strokes on the question, but I think it's a conversation that a lot of people want to ask, but they're afraid to ask or have because they don't want to be looked at as faithless.

Um but they also are like, okay, but we're still flesh and blood.

This is still there's still societal norms, like you mentioned that it's just part of life, right?

It is.

So so I I'd love to get thoughts on that.

Yeah, I think the the biggest mistake we can make is um is living in this this nebulous cloud-floating faith that doesn't have any substance to it.

Um so I believe God He gives us glimpses into His character, His nature, so that way we could understand that that the spiritual it absolutely influences the natural, but the natural also is included Um to some degree in the spiritual, and here's what I mean by that.

So so one of the things that I have loved since the inception of my faith, so to speak, has been looking at I call it uh God through time.

And ultimately what that means is looking at how God has interacted with people through time.

So whether it be through his voice and through his creative acts in Genesis, whether it be through the burning bush and then through his incredible miracles in Exodus, then the tabernacle, then the cloud, and then the temple.

Like you just kind of see God progressively engaging and he's leading us to this point where man, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and now we understand we have all these progressive ways.

Same God, um, different cultural and structural norms, but he used these different things to relate to us in a way that was flesh and blood, flesh and blood for us to be able to engage and understand it.

So the reason why I think that's important is because I think that God is showing us a a both and scenario.

If God never wanted us to really consider the practicality of things, then I don't think he would have gone through the effort of the word becoming flesh.

But I think he wanted to make sure that the the flesh side, the human side, understood the practicality, the tangibility of that you need to still have to understand that they don't need to be opponents, that they are actually they're actually working together.

So the way that I uh try my best to live my life is I I acknowledge reality.

I am a very practical person.

So uh let me think.

Um From the outside it may not seem that way, right?

Like from the outside, because you are I mean, that's that's one of the cornerstones that you stand on is is faith.

It's it it's evident in every message that you speak, every staff meeting that you hold, right?

So I think that's unpacking that a little bit, saying that because you mentioned it a couple times, even in even in the message, like I'm very practical, analytical, but someone listens to the message and may go, Well, he's just all he's speaking about is like name it and claim it, you know what I mean?

For sure.

And uh here's what here's what I do.

I l I look at I look at the facts to inform the things that I need to believe God for.

So when I when I'm looking at all of the the variables, the facts, the data, the touch points, and all that stuff, I think what we run into is when you stop there, that's when you get fixated on um on logic.

For me, I just don't stop there.

I definitely do dwell there.

Bro, I I look at my you could ask Megan, I look at my budget, I'm like, well, God's just gonna figure it out.

I'm like, no, like we need to cut back.

Like I'm I'm very, very practical in virtually everything that I do.

The thing is, I I yield, but I don't stop.

And I think that what and what can happen with some, depending on the way they were wired, we can allow what we see to cause us to stop.

Whereas for me, I'm going to yield the gap to God.

And so now I begin to look at, okay, here's the reality of it.

This is every bit of it.

So this is what Jesus is saying when he says, like, okay, when a man is looking to build a house, he has to count the costs.

And that's when he begins to unpack.

Like, you got to know what it's gonna cost because you don't want to build it on sinking sand.

So to me, like, faith and wisdom live on the same street.

Like, they're not so they're not supposed to be like opponents.

Yeah, they're like God has given us logic and reason and sound, which which is what we see.

Like, God is profoundly meticulous.

When you if you read the building of the tabernacle, there was no like random fate, oh, we're just gonna pray that we're gonna measure just the right way.

No, God's like, I needed to be this exact length.

I needed like that's very practical.

And when you brought the practicality, then the spiritual came in, and then it became this thing that cohesively represented the power and presence of God.

So I think that sometimes we could be so consumed with the spiritual that we ignore reality and we don't have any um long-lasting effects, or we could be so practical that we don't include the spirituality and then we don't have um the spiritual vibrancy that's needed.

So to me, they they they coexist together.

Yeah, and you mentioned stopping uh from a perspective uh or from an angle of well, it's just not gonna work out, right?

There's also the stopping from an angle of I'm gonna stop everything because God's just gonna handle it anyways.

I mean for someone who is struggling with a decision, struggling with the next step, how do they how do they balance those, right?

You don't you don't want to stop because it looks like you can't overcome it, but you also don't want to stop progression because you just think God's gonna take care of it all in the end, right?

Yeah, so I think I think what I what I consider is um what are the um what are the what are the moments that God is confirming that I'm going in the right direction?

Um I don't need to have all the answers, but I I believe that there are these moments where where God assures you, it's okay, I'm with you.

It's okay, you can take that next step.

Um so for me, I I believe that what we see in scripture is that faith without works is dead.

Dead faith.

You don't want to have like this nebulous faith that you don't put any practicality or action steps with it.

So to keep myself from getting into, well, God's just gonna fix it, I call it you gotta give him something to work with.

Yes, he can do creative works and make things materialize out of nothing.

Yes, he could do that.

But you'll find more often than not, and I've said this, that that he works through our obedience, he works through our yes, he works in tandem with us because I think he beautifully invites us to be a part of the process.

So um, God, I hate to re quote myself, but I'll say this.

Um, we have a part to play in a miracle we want to see.

So for me, I'm always like, God, am I what part do you want me to play?

If you want me to just hold on, I'll hold on.

And sometimes it's just having endurance, sometimes it's uh it's seeking his face, getting wisdom, seeking counsel.

Sometimes it's it's a multitude of things.

Um, but I know that I have a part to play.

So if that means um continuing to present something and then I'm inviting him to breathe on it, if it is trusting him with my next step, whether it is just holding out even in the face of resistance, I know that I have a heart to play.

So even if it's standing still, I have a part to play.

If it's if it's completely surrendering, I have a part to play.

But very rarely is it just an apathetic, okay, God's gonna figure it out, and I'll just sit back here and wait for him to do it.

Um, I just don't see that enough in scripture.

I don't see that as a as a as a practical faith step.

God is always inviting us to do something.

Yeah, I think from my experience, um whenever I whenever you know, just e even in this moment thinking about what that looks like in my life, I'm pretty sure the the reason God wants that is because he knows that the closer, the more dependent, the more reliable we are on him, the more fulfillment we're ultimately gonna have, the more joy we're ultimately gonna have because he's the source, right?

He knows he's the source, he knows what's best for us because he created us.

And so a lot of times I think we can look at challenges and and relying on God as taxing, as burdensome, as um, you know, not efficient um because we you know we think we have all the answers, right?

But in reality, he's just at the end of the day, probably wanting a closer relationship, more intimacy, m more more dependency on him, and so um and it lends itself to kind of the next question where where you you were talking about compassion a lot.

Yeah.

And you were talking about how it's different than uh it's not passive, right?

Compassion is is an action, and uh Jesus definitely displayed this.

What would you like to see?

Um because you you you called out the church a little bit, you called out you called out Christianity a little bit, and I think it's okay to do that, it's okay to to self-examine and and to to criticize ourselves, right?

Yeah.

Um what would you love to see from the church moving forward or uh what do you think are are ways that we can improve?

And when I say the church, I I just mean overall, not just celebration, although we all have our areas of event of improvement.

Um what would Keith Pittman like to see?

Man, it's it's you know, it's almost like it's almost like you're you you pray about this, man, and they because I was I was literally thinking today, um, just in and not even connecting it to the message, but just kind of like thinking as I was driving down the street and seeing all the churches that are uh in our community that are having incredible impact, um, but also looking at like just the the brokenness that still exists in society and people that are struggling and and and people picking one side versus another.

And I I truly believe that one of the one of the the tactics that the enemy has used to really weaken the church's influence has been, I would call it, um, getting us to a place where we're at personal indifference.

So I I I sense that the scariest thing and the scariest place you can arrive with anything is just being indifferent to it, indifferent to sin, and indifferent to brokenness, indifferent to uh things that you s clearly see in scripture that Jesus is saying, I wasn't indifferent about this.

Why are you?

So what I what I would just like to see in the church, starting with myself, uh inclusive of our church here in Orlando, inclusive of the church overall, is for us to stop being indifferent about things.

It's for us to truly have a one, let's stop being surprised that when people who don't have Jesus act like it, because I think that sometimes we project and we we are critical of folks who don't have Jesus when what do you expect them to act like?

What do you expect their lives to look like?

So coming in through this lens of criticism and judgment and all that is not something that I see Jesus do.

But then secondly, how do we come alongside to show value and to return dignity so that people can know how to receive love so they can begin to walk in love and then be redeemed by love?

So I would just like to see um us, and this is like a very broad brush, but I would love to see us to stop being indifferent um to the struggles of people and really coming alongside them and allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work from the love that we deposit.

I think we have to get out of servanthood for the sake of conversion.

Well man.

Uh we'll just leave it at that.

If if he did it for them, uh he can and will do it for me.

Yeah.

A theme throughout the series.

And you you say that with conviction, uh, and you say that with confidence.

What gives you the confidence and conviction to say those words?

So, you know, sometimes you need to qualify them, and I hope that you know you have the statement and then you're you're you know, for the series, but then the messages are hopefully providing context.

So am I saying, okay, you know, um we talked about the fish and loaf.

So does that mean that I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna find these items in my refrigerator that I didn't plan for?

I think we have to get out of the I'm looking for a a dot for dot comparison, but I'm looking more at the same God who because for me it's about the principle.

So when I'm looking at like uh the let's say the miracle of turning water to wine, Jesus is able to transform something.

So now my expectation is that means that Jesus can transform my situation.

I'm not looking for him to literally take this cup of water that's next to me and be like, hey man, it's almost five o'clock.

So like let's get at it.

So for me, it's about the principle, it's about the theme there.

And so when I look at um the fish and loaves, it's me looking at it and saying, God knows how to provide.

He knows how to make sure that what we do have is enough to sustain us.

And so when I look at the varying miracles that I've seen Jesus do, I have seen in my own life where I've seen those principles come alive.

I've seen in my own life where I've seen God transform situations, I've seen in my own life where God was able to restore relationships where I've seen in my own life where God could take the little that we have, but somehow it's more than enough.

So that's how I able to say it from a place of confidence, because it's from a place of this is life for me, man.

All right, you know what's coming next.

The the question I always ask anything anything else that maybe you you didn't touch on or get to or or you you want to cover while while we got this time here?

You know, man, I think um just it it's it's uh you know, I I I hit on a a lot and and quite candidly, I didn't feel like my 100%.

I didn't feel the sharpest, I didn't feel the most clear, you know, and I I mentioned in the message that we're kind of going through a season of of grief.

And so um but but God is with us and he's been with us through it all.

And so um there's a part where I've really been wrestling, and I said this, where you know, we're not cursed with pain, but sometimes God trusts us with it.

And um, and I and I pull that from when when Paul was called into ministry, um, and he tells Ananias to go and lay hands on Paul, he says, Hey, I need you to go to him.

And Ananias is like, Hey man, that that dude's crazy.

Like, are you sure?

He said, No, I need you to go and tell him what he needs to suffer for my sake.

Um, and so I see instances where people had to suffer.

When I look at Timothy, um, who was called into ministry under Paul, so you know, you have the Jerusalem Council where they're trying to figure out what does it mean to be a follower of Christ?

Because we have Gentiles coming in.

Do we have to do all this stuff that we Jews do?

And so they come to the consensus because they're trying to figure out circumcision, they're trying to figure out all this other stuff.

Um, and so they're like, no, they don't have to do that stuff.

Here's what we want them to do: abstain from meat, sacrifice the idol, don't drink blood, and um and be careful of sexual immorality.

Like they kind of set these parameters and saying, okay, so take these into these gentile environments and help them to understand that this is what it means to be a follower of Christ.

Bro, literally, after they make that decision, like Paul turns to Timothy and is like, Yeah, man, we're gonna still circumcise you.

Like, and it's it's it seems so conflicting because it's like, but I thought we just came to a decision that I don't have to.

But Paul says, No, but for what you're called to do, I'm gonna need you to suffer this because that suffering is gonna allow an opportunity for you to reach people that otherwise wouldn't hear from you.

And so when I look at scripture and I see more and more that that sometimes sacrifice, that sometimes suffering is not the consequence of sin, but God trusts you with it.

He wants to see how you steward it because that suffering actually comes a gateway that allows you to reach people.

And so um I think for me, I didn't have enough time to dig into it, but the message in and of itself and where we are grieving as a family in and of itself, um it gives me strength in knowing that man, we're suffering, but God's gonna use it.

And and I think for me that's that's encouraging, um and and that gives me hope, that gives me strength because I know that nothing's wasted, even our suffering, man.

So it like so even though I address that, I'm giving more context to it, like I'm walking through it, and I've seen it in my own life that sacrifice and suffering, we none of us signs up for it, but God certainly can use it.

And and we have to remember that the ultimate sacrifice, the ultimate uh moment of suffering was done by Jesus.

Yes.

And it opened the door for all of us to be able to sit here in a room in twenty twenty-one and talk about 'em.

That's right.

That's true.

And so um God definitely can use it.

Uh appreciate you coming on.

Yes.

Uh always love talking to you about uh about this stuff and and you know, excited for you know, we still got a we still got a couple weeks in this thing, man, and we still we still got a ways to go in the series.

So I hope everybody out there stays tuned and and connected to it.

And you know me, Nate.

The next message is always the best message.

That's right.

So make sure you stay dolling because it's only gonna get better.

The Tom Brady model.

The next ring.

What's the best ring?

It's the next ring.

All right, guys, thanks so much.

Make sure you stay uh tuned next week as we uh uh talk about the next time.

Thank you for joining us for after the message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebrationorl or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.