After the Message: When it Rains...

Thank you for joining us for After the Method.

To learn more about celebration for Terminal Landle, you can follow us on social media under the handle celebration normal or visit number one celebration.org.

Take two.

Yes.

Behind the scenes, this is take number two.

It's gonna be even better.

And we never do that.

We never that this is my first take two.

Welcome to After the Message, folks.

If you're stumbling along this podcast, you are on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

That's the air conditioner in the background.

Crazy.

After the message is simply a conversation from the previous Sunday sermon, and uh we hope that it encourages you to continue the conversation in your community.

Today I'm joined by none other than my friend, my brother, my colleague Vinny Costa.

Vinny, how are you?

I'm so good.

You forgot to mention I am your Smash Burger partner.

Smash Burger Partner.

Every time we go there, it's only us.

That's right.

It looks like we own the place.

We kind of do.

You're right.

Smash Burger shout out amazing burgers.

I don't know if they want us to shout them out, but we just did.

Yep.

So sponsor us.

Vinny, uh, you know, people that are connected to Celebration Church Orlando might recognize you, might know you a little bit, but maybe for those who are on the outside looking in, what do you do here at the church?

Hey guys, uh, everybody listening to the after the message.

Um, I'm uh Vinicius, the 33 years old.

I I oversee worship reproduction here at Celebration Church.

Um, and I think what we try to do every single Sunday is to facilitate the relationship between the church and God in the service environment.

Well said.

That's as simple as that.

What uh for for a kind of a personal question here, Vinny, what what was the first instrument that that you picked up that you learned?

When I was like five years old, my mom uh enrolled me to uh piano classes, but I couldn't take it.

I was just a kid, I just wanted to play my Super Nintendo or something, yeah.

So also I was not worthy to play the piano because it's such a beautiful instrument, and uh I was not ready for it.

Yeah, so when I was on fifth grade, I don't know what what is that for you guys in your school system.

Yeah, my math professor uh was trying to teach us a number song, and he he she brought up um an acoustic.

Um and she was playing the song in the acoustic, and I was like, okay, I need to learn this.

Yeah.

So so then I took a couple of years of classical acoustic.

Um so it was it was nice.

But but my favorite instrument is piano for sure.

Did you if I had one at home, my wife would freak out at me.

What if you had a piano at home?

Why could you be playing it all the time?

Oh yeah.

My father, my father-in-law, my and my mom, my mother-in-law, they have a piano there.

So every time I go to their house, I stay hours and hours and hours.

Really?

Hours and hours and hours.

And I don't I don't realize until someone tells me, Hey, it's been five hours you're playing this freaking thing.

And I'm like, okay, I apologize.

Come visit your family.

That's why actually they send us to America.

To get you out of the piano room.

There goes Vinny playing the piano again.

Exactly.

Oh man.

Uh, you ready to talk about suffering?

No.

Of course.

What type of questions?

Uh, if you uh if you've kind of been following along with us here at Celebration Church Orlando, we've been in a series called Deconstructed and uh just talking about what happens when when our faith and when doubts intersect with our faith and how we handle it and how we walk through it.

And uh the idea was kind of sparked from Pastor Keith uh reading the book After Doubt by uh Dr.

AJ Swoboda and and and also where we are as a culture too.

It it seems like everybody is or not everyone, but the there's a there's a large portion of our community who is second guessing things and and rightfully so.

Uh um, but uh that book really kind of sparked something within Pastor Keith.

And we actually got to uh talk to uh Dr.

Swoboda last week on on the podcast on uh after the message.

So if you missed that, go back and amazing, by the way.

Yeah, he he was awesome.

He he was so gracious, and um and if you haven't read the book, read the book, um after doubt by by Dr.

Swoboda, it's great.

But uh what Vinny, what's what's this series been for you?

I know you've been you've been in the church world a long time, right?

You've been serving in ministry for uh over a decade, if I'm not mistaken.

And um have you have you done anything like this, experienced any have you uh been a part of a church setting where these types of topics are are spoken about?

Um and then uniquely for Celebration Orlando, what has this series been for you?

Um I think this is a personal exercise I try to do every year.

It's funny, Nate.

Um when I was 18 years old, I was um a young adult full of um beliefs, and I used to fight for them so much.

I was so sure about everything, and uh as I age, I I can definitely see I'm not that guy anymore.

Actually, I second guess everything I believe pretty often.

Um and I think this is a very healthy exercise when you do that through the correct lenses.

When I say I second guess everything, I'm not saying I'm putting God into a weird place of I need to do some type of effort to believe in Hin again.

No, what I'm saying is I ask myself why I do the things I do every day, why I what's the root of my beliefs.

And I think the right way of doing that is always doing that through the lenses of the Bible and in the presence of God.

So constantly I ask myself questions that will put me to in in a place of ooh, maybe I'm just doing this out of habit and not because I truly believe it.

Um it's funny, a couple when was it two days ago?

I was having a conversation with my wife about the prodigal son narrative, and then I said something to her, and she said, Are you insane?

What are you talking about?

And then I said, Well, I'm talking about, and then I unpacked for her, and she was like, I don't believe that, no, and then and then I was like, That's funny, we've been married for 10 years, and I think uh I think we we used to disagree in only one thing that it's it will be a subject for a different after the message, and now I just found a second one, and I think this is just because as we grow, as we age, and as we ask ourselves important questions, I think God, and of course, as we do that with God on our side, I think God will lead us to understand things that we couldn't in the past.

God will bring new revelations to a couple of things, and of course, when I think about oh, I never thought about this before, it's never uh only a rational exercise.

It starts being a rational exercise, and then of course, I need to bring that to the light.

I need to bring that and back and confront that with scripture, um and just because I'm very what's the word here, very meticulous or very serious about uh my beliefs when I confront that ideas or new truths with the Bible, it's always a very interesting, uh long uh process.

I need to have a couple of verses that will support this.

I need to analyze context.

It's it's a whole it's a it's a it's a it's crazy.

Yeah, but I think what I'm trying to say here is what we're doing in this series, pretty much, if I could uh encapsulate, I think what we're saying is it's fine to have questions, it's fine to second guess a couple of things, and I think this is a great exercise for all of us, as long as we always bring that back to Jesus, as long as we always uh exercise uh this deconstructive thing with God on our side.

I think that was one of the most encouraging things from the conversation with AJ was and from the book, reading the book was you know, he says the surest way that the surest sign to know that we have faith is that we doubt it, right?

Oh, for sure.

And how how gracious and how merciful God is and how and how long suffering he is with us, and he doesn't he doesn't expect us to have it figured out overnight.

Um which for me that's one aspect of God that is hard for me to believe, right?

Uh it's hard for me to to to view God in that manner because if I were God and think thank God that I'm not God, I would be like, why why don't you get why don't you see this?

I I've laid it out for you, right?

And so um, so I'm very thankful, obviously, for God's mercy.

And I and well, you know what's funny, and again, I was talking about this with my wife yesterday.

I think I think even when we read the gospels, and we see Jesus telling uh their disciple his disciples, like, you guys don't know what you're talking about, you guys don't know what you're asking.

I think they were so sure that that was the right comment, that was the right thing to say, and Jesus is like, no, you don't know what you're saying, and this is fine.

Jesus is fine with this process.

That weird conversation that Jesus had with Peter uh on the beach.

Uh do you love me?

Yes, I do.

Do you love me?

And then on the third time, and Peter says, You know it.

You're gonna ask me again, you know it.

And then the Bible says that uh that God Jesus said something to Peter to pretty much um bring more clarity on how Peter would die.

And I think this is amazing because uh Peter denied, Peter said, I'm going with you to the cross if it's necessary.

He was so sure about it.

It was a strong belief of him.

Hey, you know what?

I am with you.

And then he denied Jesus three times.

And then in this conversation at the beach, Jesus just says, Well, you know what?

One day you will die for my name, and that will be a great proof that you really love me.

So I really like that those those stages of I'm so sure, and then he denies, I'm not so sure, and then Jesus just reconstructing to a place that he died, and we know the history he died loving Jesus so much.

So when we think about this, it's it's just a great process of as again as long as you do that with Jesus, it's a it's a growth uh path for sure.

Um Serena, she's in she's in a very weird season that it's hard for for for she to differentiate I than you.

This is your daughter, my daughter, yeah.

So yes, last night she's three years old.

Okay, so last time she told me, tomorrow I'll go to the doctor.

She told me.

And then I replied to her saying, Yes, you're you go to the doctor.

And then she she did something like, No, I'll go to the doctor.

I said, Yes, you you go to the doctor, and she said, No, I go, because she doesn't know the difference of I and you, yeah, but she was so sure she was right.

Um, and I was just trying to explain to her, hey, I understand your pet, and she got a little bit upset at some point, and I understand that because I think we all have been there that we're so like I know, I know this, I know what I'm talking about, and for a couple of things, I think that this is totally fine, but there is I think there is always something greater that God wants to bring and and and uh reveal, and um so being in that position of with God, I know I can ask the hardest questions ever, I think it's a me.

You know, you mentioned Peter and the fact that he he did end up dying and and suffering for Jesus.

Um is suffering an inevitable part of the journey, or is it a necessary part of the journey, or is it both?

In other words, must we suffer, or is it just the fact that it's going to happen?

Does that make sense?

I think it's both.

Yeah, I think it's both.

I think we will suffer for sure.

Um, the Bible says it.

Um it's inevitable, but at the same time, when we understand that, we can also look to this through the lenses of if it's inevitable, I'm gonna enjoy it.

For lack of a better word.

Yeah, and enjoying means I'm going to learn from it, I'm going to understand whatever I need to understand in that season.

I think Lindsay did a great job with with her message entitled Fruits of Winter, um, available on our podcast by saying that in order for us to have a great spring, we need to go through the through the winter through the winter.

So it's inevitable.

You know, we we're going to face challenges, we're going to face bad news.

We're we're going to, I think, at least once or twice being very optimistic, we're going to see ourselves in a in a place that apparently there's no open doors, there's no exits, no clear next steps.

But I think those moments God teaches endurance, God teaches faith, faithfulness, God teaches so many lessons.

So it's almost like it's necessary going through moments like this for us to grow.

Yeah.

Um kind of want to go back uh to the beginning here, um and talk about um, you know, in the garden there was the the temptation, right?

Uh from Satan.

And then I also I kind of look at those two narratives, the garden and Job, almost like they're they're kind of similar in nature, uh, as far as you know, Satan's role in them.

Um because he ends up going to God and and in that narrative saying, like, look, uh look at Job, like, what do you think would happen if I you know if I did these things to him?

First of all, what information do we have about the Satan or Satan as we refer to him?

Because I don't feel like there's a lot in the I feel like he's just there, you know.

Like we open the story and he's there.

Like from your perspective and your understanding, where did he come from?

How how should we view him?

Let's just talk about Satan for a little bit, which you're probably not gonna hear a lot of on the podcast.

Well, we have uh well, if we talk about the beginning of everything, we have at least two passages that will talk about it.

Um Ezekiel in Isaiah.

Um, we know for sure he was an angel, he was there with God in the beginning of everything.

Um, he was uh a special angel for lack of a better word, he was responsible for other angels, and he was um anointed.

That's what the Bible says.

And um at some point he something uh grew grew in in his uh being and uh the Bible said that he thought with himself, I want to be like God.

And I think this is very interesting that the Bible mentioned that I want to be like God because because this is not common when when we're comparing ourselves with someone else, we always think like I want to be bigger than you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, like you you really like to play golf, and let's say you consider Tiger Woods the best player.

If you want to play very, very well and you want a career, you will never think like I want to play like Tiger Woods.

I think you would say you would think like I want to be a better player than than than Tiger Woods.

That's not what uh Satan thought.

He thought I want to be like God because he knows it's impossible to be bigger uh than God, and then when he thought about that, the Bible says uh he started a reb rebellion rebellion in heaven, and then one third and one third uh part of the angels was sent um to to the earth, and then there's a bunch of um theologies around this um on the first verse and second verse of the Bible um what what could happen right there in the middle of the two verses, right?

In the beginning, God created a heaven and the earth, and then second verse, but the earth was um to huvahu the original, which is chaotic pretty much.

So what happened, why God created an earth, chaotic.

Um so a couple of scholars will believe that in the middle of verse one and verse verse two is when Satan was um kicked out of heaven, but now he's here in earth and um and I think something very important to understand about Satan is he attacks me, but I am I'm never his goal.

I think that's that's our that's the point.

We are never the the when he attacks me, he's not trying to I think what I'm trying to say here is he's always trying to get God's attention.

He's always trying to get like God uh and not I am not the ending right goal for Satan.

He's always God.

He's not trying to destroy you, he's trying to get back at God, is what you're saying.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, he's trying to destroy me to affect God to affect God because he knows how much we mean to God, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

I believe that.

So I think I think that's exactly what happened in Genesis and in Job, pretty much what you were saying.

Like, hey, try this, try it.

Because you know, it will be fine.

Yeah, it's not only about the couple in the garden, it's about destroying God's plan and Keith's perspective of yes.

Same with Job.

It's not only about destroying Job's life, it's about and and and that's why so interesting that conversation God had with Satan.

Um, very interesting as well that God gave us a great testimony about Job, right?

It's one thing when you say good things about you, it's one thing when someone says good things about you, but when God tells the Satan good things about you, you're good, man.

You're good.

Yeah.

Um so yeah, but every time I read the Bible and and I get that question a lot.

Um, what's the most difficult book in the Bible to read?

And everybody thinks.

It's Revelation or Ezekiel or Leviticus.

I think it's the most three.

Mm-hmm.

But it's not for me.

For me, Job is the is the hardest one.

Because it deals with suffering and it never presents us a solution for it.

Yeah.

The Bible never.

I think when we think about, we try to create solutions for it and explanations.

Um that sometimes I think it could be it can be true, but not always.

Um, I think I I can give you an example of what I'm saying.

Sometimes we're just going through a very difficult season in our life, and sometimes we think like, oh, this is because God is trying to teach you a lesson.

I don't believe that.

Um never.

No, no, no.

I think sometimes it is.

Okay.

But I don't think we can use that excuse every time.

Because forgive me if I'm being very heretic here.

If we need to edit this, this podcast later.

But if God is trying to teach me a lesson every time I'm going through a difficult season, God is not a very good teacher.

His methods are a little bit weird to me.

And I know because when I when I sometimes Serena does a couple of things that I purposely let her go through whatever she's doing to learn a lesson.

But sometimes I just learn a just teach a lesson out of my love.

Um, so yes, so just to to say it again to make it clear for everybody listening.

Sometimes I think we suffer, and sometimes I believe God wants to teach us something.

And a hundred percent of times I believe we can learn something out of our season.

But the catalyst for that is not always is hey, I need to teach Vinny this.

Exactly.

Got it.

I need to, I need him to learn this, so let's yeah, I don't I don't believe that at all.

And I think sometimes it's it's easy for us, and when when I say us, I'm I mean the church, it's easy for us to make that almost like an excuse because it's impossible to find in Bible and Ninsert for suffering.

Yeah.

What what that was my next question to you, man, is like what's our what's our obsession with that?

Like we always we always feel like we have to have a resolve.

But we always feel like, and I know you know the church is just as guilty of it as any I mean any ad or commercial out there is usually trying to s any invention is trying to solve a problem, any innovation is trying to make the invention better, right?

So what is it inside of us that makes us want that so bad?

I think it's just part of our culture of book almost blaming the blaming the philosophers back in the day when they at some point start thinking that having having an explanation or having it the truth it's a concept or is a piece of information.

When the Bible goes on the opposite way, saying that the truth and the solution and the answer is not a concept, it's a person.

So I think I think that's that's the the gap there.

Every time we go through seasons of I don't know what's the next step, seasons of suffering.

We tr we think with our philosophical mind trying to find an answer for it, and the Bible is presenting a person that's an answer for it, not a piece of information, yeah, not only an explanation, not so I think that's the gap right there.

Yeah, um, Jesus is the answer for the suffering.

Yeah, Jesus is the answer for heart seasons, not only a book, not only a piece of not only an exponent uh a rational explanation for it.

Yeah.

And I I've tried to ask this question to a few different people before, and perhaps I'm not phrasing the question right because it never quite appeases what I'm asking.

It never quite, and maybe that's maybe that's the paradox is there is no answer besides Jesus, but let me try and ask again and see if it helps.

What do you say to someone who says, Great, that doesn't help me?

I'm going through this, and you tell me that Jesus is the answer, right?

What does that even what does that mean for me?

I I have nothing to hold on to besides the fact that I just am supposed to believe that Jesus is the answer.

Does that make sense like he's a person, it's not a tangible solution.

So for example, if I'm running out of gas, I put more gas in my car, and now my car can move forward, right?

The problem is the fact that I'm low on gas or I'm out of it, and the solution is the gas.

Whereas if I'm hurting or suffering, my solution is Jesus.

It seems ambiguous to me.

So could you help me and others listening decipher that?

Yeah.

Well, I think we've we've talked about this in the past, but I would love to mention again.

I think there's a big difference between methods and principles.

Sometimes we mix them up, and that's where the confusion starts.

If you are suffering, there's a bunch of methods that it could help you.

Um, sometimes they are spiritual, sometimes they're they're not.

Um, and of course, it will depend on what exactly we're talking about.

But I think Pastor Keith mentioned a couple of them on the message, and I think he did a great job.

If you're suffering, depend depending on what it is, make sure you have boundaries around you.

I think that's a great method.

Um if you're suffering because you lost someone, for example, well, make sure you do everything you can uh to not to get your mind out of it as as as much as you can.

Be intentional on every time you think about it, try to change.

You know what I'm saying?

There's uh lots and lots of methods that will help you to avoid it.

So if you if we want to talk about methods, we can we can stay here for the next 30 hours talking about that.

Um, when I am in a season of suffering, what helps me a lot is listening to classical songs.

So I I get my modes, my Mozart playlist, and I'll listen every day because it helps me in that suffering uh season.

But that's just a method, it won't bring any type of solution, it won't bring any type of you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Now the principle It doesn't resolve the suffering, it doesn't resolve exactly.

I think what resolves the suffering is the principle, not the method.

Okay, and the principle is Jesus, it's having a relationship with him, is opening up yourself to him.

And then for someone that would say that it would ask me, so that's that that's what you're saying?

I would say, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

And if you figure out something else, please let me know because I I don't know any other way.

Yeah, I think I think the easiest way to put it is we all gonna suffer.

You will choose if you're gonna suffer with Jesus or without it.

You mentioned uh 18-year-old Vinny.

Maybe that was in take one.

I don't know if it was in take two.

Yeah, I don't remember.

But, anyways, we were talking at some point today, and you were just talking about how sure you were about certain things.

One of the age-old questions that theologians or people that enjoy actually trying to understand a God who we can't understand, at least on this side of heaven.

Um, one of the age-old questions is does God cause suffering?

Uh, did God cause suffering or does he allow suffering?

Is there a difference in that?

Let's first talk about 18-year-old Vinny, what 18-year-old Vinny would have said, and then let's say what does 33-year-old Vinny say about how suffering comes about.

Is God the cause for it?

Does God allow it?

Or are those two one and the same?

I don't know.

I think the 18 years old Vinnie would know.

But today I don't know.

I tend to believe that God doesn't cause suffering.

I do truly believe that God allows it.

Like we can see that in Job for sure.

Um I don't see God.

I'm gonna start with the 18 years old.

The 18 years old would tell you God doesn't cause any type of suffering, but God for sure allows it to happen based on the narrative we see in Job.

The 13 years old Vini would say, God allows the suffering for sure.

We see that in Job.

I don't think God was not creating what was the word you said?

God cause suffering.

I don't, it's hard for me to believe that, but when I think about the whole plan of redeem redeemers, and the whole plan was putting Jesus on the cross, it was God's idea, and uh He suffered because of that, and it was it was God, it was It was God.

So today I tend to believe that God caused God allows suffering.

I'm not sure if He Um causes suffering, but I'm pretty sure God suffers as well.

You think God suffers?

I think so.

Really?

I think so.

How so?

Well, I think the Bible gives us a couple of examples of that.

For example, when God when the Bible says that God has no pleasure, um it's hard for me to mention that in English, but God has no pleasure when someone that it's not saved die.

Right.

Um I think that the the feeling that it's opposite to pleasure for me is suffering.

Um I think it was not a great day for God when when the couple tried that food.

I don't think God was like, yes.

Um so yes, I do believe God suffers.

He suffers when he sees the injustice in his world, he suffers when he sees that sometimes we're not brave enough to accomplish our purpose or not even pray about it, or not even realize we have one.

I think God suffers when we uh ignore grace or when we abuse of grace.

I think God suffers when we gossip, when we are not generous enough, when we ignore things that He He would love us to be paying attention to.

Um So I definitely think God suffers and God allows suffering about now.

If God causes cause suffering, ask me when I'm 50.

Deal.

How does God cope with his support?

Well, what about you?

Do you think God causes suffering?

I don't know, man.

Because it almost it almost seems like causing and allowing are the same thing, or you could look at it as the same thing.

If I allow something, and I am I am that I am, if I am the Alpha and Omega, if I am the beginning and the end, all things come from me.

You know, rationally to me, it kind of seems like well, that's a ca cause and effect.

Yeah.

But when we look through the lenses of how limited we are, for sure.

Yeah.

Logically, logically, but it's definitely not the same thing, right?

God can allow me to suffer for something I did and not causing not having anything with it.

Because I did it, because I did it, yeah.

Of course he couldn't stop it, yeah, yeah, but he chose not to.

Now, something that in the past uh I was so sure going back to Job is what he says, God gave me and God took away.

In the past, I would, and I said that before a couple of times.

Like Job was crazy when he said that.

I don't think God took anything away from him.

Meaning, I don't know if God does that.

God always gives, I don't know if God takes.

Um, the 33 years old Vini, we're not sure.

This is probably the worst episode of After the Message, because everybody will be like, they they don't know any type of answer.

Dude, that's the great thing about what we get to do is we don't have to know anything.

Well, if you have answers, please email us after the message.

Yeah, just let us know.

Yeah, just let us know because we'll we'll gladly take your answer to it.

But I was talking to my dad about that the other day.

I was finishing up a theology class, and I was just like, Dad, we don't know anything.

Oh, yeah, we know nothing.

Zero, it's kind of like the joke of the theologians, like they spend their entire lives studying and researching and hypothesizing and writing about, and we don't know anything.

Exactly, and yet we dedicate our lives to knowing God or hope trying to know God.

Yeah, amazing.

A couple of things I know for sure is Jesus is the Lord.

Yeah, there is heaven and in hell.

Yeah, I believe that the grace of Jesus is everything I need to go to heaven.

I think I access God through grace by faith.

And uh I believe religion is the worst thing ever.

And I believe that the book needs will kill them.

Tom Brady's coming back to win a Super Bowl.

That's it.

That's all you need the rest.

That's all you need to know.

Last thing before we uh head out here, Pastor Keith mentioned the uh the account of uh the blind man and how the disciple, and he was kind of talking about how we always have to have commentary on everything when someone's suffering, and uh for whatever reason we just feel like we should you should do this, you should do that.

Um but when uh the disciples in Jesus encounter a man who's blind and they ask him, Lord, who sinned that this man should be born blind?

Why did they ask that question?

What's what's the why was the first thing that came to their mind the fact that is there historical precedent for that?

Is there something in scripture that says if your family sins, you're born blind?

Like just kind of a quick nugget before we head out.

Do you know anything about that?

Yeah, I think it's it's based on a on the law, a bad interpretation of the law.

Um, we have this verse, I think this is Exodus chapter from 20 to 30.

You will find it.

Yeah, um, when we have uh that verse that says, I am God, I doesn't change, I visit the iniquity of the of the father and the son for three generations, yeah, and I am merciful for a thousand generations.

Yeah, so I think it was a common sense to think um that you were just you were an overflow of your dad's sin.

Um and of course, this is a bad interpretation of of the of the of the verse.

Yeah, so based on a bad bad interpretation of the law, they're they were just trying to figure out an explanation for what that was happening.

Yeah, and guess what?

Sometimes there is no explanation, we have no answers.

Um so I think that's why they were just trying to figure out, and sometimes we all do we all do that.

Sometimes to figure out what happened logically speaking, why it was happening, and and sometimes we have no answers.

I I think leaving a life with God is accepting that you won't have all the answers.

I think I think it's very really a very religious thing to believe that once you find God, you've found all the answers you were looking for.

No, that's that's not the truth.

Actually, that's one of the reasons of well, not now, but in the past I was so anguished uh all the time because I found God and I was like, okay, so now I well I have God, I have the Bible, so at some point I'm gonna have answers for everything.

Right.

Not the case.

Not the case.

What what do you actually I think as much as you if if you know God more and more and know the Bible more and more, you're gonna have more and more questions.

I think now you just get to a point that you can say, I don't have an answer for this, and it's fine.

And that's okay.

That's okay.

It's a common thing that I hear often uh when when people in our community or people that I talk to are are going through difficulties, they're suffering, that they blame themselves, um, or that they think God is punishing them for something, or that they think that they'll often say, like, you know, it's just it's in my DNA, it's it's hereditary, it's from my family, and sure there are physiological things that that get passed down generation to generation, but but just your just your difficulty, the the the presence of suffering doesn't necessarily mean that that you caused it, not in each case, right?

For sure.

How how would you encourage someone who's right now listening and they are dealing with a season of suffering and they feel like that that they are the reason for it, what what would you say to them if if they're sitting here uh right now?

I I'll I'll just take the risk of being repetitive here, but I'm gonna say first go to Jesus.

Go to Jesus.

He knows better than anyone what suffering means.

He suffered on a cross for us, so he knows what what is what it means to be sad, anguished, alone, lonely, frustrated.

He knows it all.

I really like this phrase that says maybe I shared here before that uh God sent Jesus to the earth to show us how God is.

And Jesus went back to get to heaven to tell God how it is to be a man.

So he knows it.

Yeah, he knows what you're going through, and as long as you have Jesus with you, I'm not saying you're gonna have all the answers you need.

I'm not saying your suffering goes away immediately.

What I'm saying is you have a friend that goes back through that season, it will be with you, it will be on your side.

That's a principle.

Talk with him.

Pray, open up your heart, your heart.

Say the craziest thing that you wouldn't be brave enough to say to your best friend.

Say it to Jesus.

Only God knows the amount of crazy prayers I've prayed in my entire life.

So please do that.

I'm sure he appreciated because you know he already knows.

Yeah, open up yourself, bring Jesus to your suffering.

I think that's that's the the the key, the principle.

As far as methods, find help, call someone, call a therapist, check if you need to to take a couple of pills or whatever.

Listen to a good song, go read a good book.

Enroll yourself in a gym.

Ask someone to forgive you if that's what you need to do.

Make sure you put methods in place.

As Pastor Keith said, remember yourself, rem remind yourself of the goodness of God.

Put boundaries around you.

Do whatever you need to do.

And I and I think only you listening to us now, only you know why you're suffering.

And only you knows what are the methods you can put in place to help you out.

Yeah.

Depending on your type of personality, if you're a melancholic or whatever, you kinda enjoy a little bit.

That's the sadness.

The sadness.

I think it's fine for you for you to allow yourself to be there for one day, but that's it, you know.

Yeah.

Don't let it you can be the master, not the servant of this whole of this whole situation.

Put methods in place that will help you.

The methods will never replace Jesus.

But with Jesus and the right methods around you, you will understand soon that the winter is going away.

The spring is coming.

And uh soon we will be ready to face your next suffering season.

Can't wait.

Uh it always amazes me how we can have discussions like this, but I can still walk away encouraged and still walk away faith-filled and believing, believing in God's best for me and God's goodness.

Thanks so much for coming on, Vinny.

Really appreciate you, man.

Thank you, brother.

Absolutely.

Uh, guys, make sure you uh check out uh next week as we wrap up our deconstructed series on After the Message.

See you later.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorml.org.