After the Message: Reconstructed

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.

Well, well, well, we are in our final episode of the new season.

Well, I guess it's not new anymore, but After the Message.

Welcome, folks.

If you're stumbling along this podcast, you are on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast, and this is a segment we like to call After the Message.

And if you listen to the segment, you can repeat that now because I say it every time the exact same way.

This is simply a continuation of our conversation from the previous Sunday sermon.

And if you've been following along, we are in a series called Deconstructed, where we're looking at what happens when faith and doubt intersect.

And today I'm joined by the one who presented the word of God this past Sunday.

I'll just go ahead and uh nix the pastor part because I know.

Yeah, it's weird.

Lindsay Brenner, how are you?

I am well.

Very feeling much better now that we're on this side of the message.

So this is the more relaxed um environment, so I'm down for that.

Yeah.

We were just talking about your preparation a little bit off air.

So give a little insight.

It was a crazy week.

As I think I'm learning now, anytime Pastor Keith asks us to speak, that week is going to be a hard week.

And it'll be it'll be a different kind of hard, but uh yeah, it was a hard week.

And so I did not really have a ton of time to put the energy toward not only mentally but physically being super pregnant.

Not super pregnant, but I'm well, I'm well into the pregnancy, so not until Saturday was I able to formulate everything in like one cohesive flow.

So yes, it was a little bit chaotic this past week.

But I'm glad it's done.

Glad it's over with, and we're on the other side.

Can you uh can you kind of speak because I actually was gonna ask you that question for someone who maybe has never spoken like that, not necessarily public speaking, but specifically preaching or teaching out of the of the word of God, like can you give us a a hint or an insight into what that is like when you're preparing throughout the week?

Yeah, I mean, obviously I only know my experience, but my experience it's um it's scary.

Um I have a lot of um I mean, I think it's a good thing, but it feels like a very heavy burden, and it's not just um it's not just when you have to go up there and speak.

It's the weak, or as far as you know, as you know when you have to speak about it, I think it's just constantly ruminating in your head, like, what do you want me to say, God?

And that's like not an easy thing, especially when I'm used to the type of relationship with God that it's like, okay, it's him and I.

He speaks to me, I know it's for me.

And now when you have to speak in front of a congregation, it's okay, let's think about is this what you want me to speak to them, or is this something you're revealing to me?

And so that's kind of a hard process, it's a new process.

I'm sure um the more reps somebody has, you get a little bit better at it.

But I think weighty is the best descriptor for it, and so I think it's just really weighing and measuring, is this something that is my thought or is this something that you want me to share?

And then as you're deep in it, there's lots of revisions that come, but um I don't know.

That's I think the hard part.

It's looked different every time I've prepared.

Um, I do a lot of journaling in the process, which is kind of my way of processing through my own thoughts and then and then looking, you know, comparing to what I'm studying in the scripture and making sure that not only does it line up, but that it makes sense and that it actually can lead towards um what I believe God's asking me to share.

So it's kind of like a weird process, but I'm sure you have a similar your own unique process, but that's how I go about it.

Yeah.

And your behind the scenes look I was supposed to be preaching that day, so you were a little bit I was a little salty about it, but yeah.

I was I was I was like jokingly salty about it, and then when I had the week I had, then I was just not salty at you, but I was just like, oh really?

So yeah.

But I'm glad it came together and that it's Tuesday today.

So we've had a couple days to exhale.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it was it was good, and I think it was a great conclusion to what we've been talking about, um, the the topic of deconstruction, and obviously the the title of the message uh brought this whole topic full circle.

But I kind of want to go back to the beginning planning stages of this when we were kind of thinking and praying through is this something we need to bring before our church?

How do we bring it before the church?

Like, what were your initial thoughts when the idea was posed by Pastor Keith?

Like, hey, I'm reading this book called After Doubt, um, which by the way, if you haven't listened to uh the podcast uh from a few weeks ago, uh, we did interview the author, uh Dr.

A.J.

Swoboda, uh, the author of After Doubt, which was kind of the catalyst for uh this series.

Uh, but I would encourage you to A read the book and also listen to the podcast with Dr.

Swoboda.

But initially, what were you thinking?

What was your vision?

What were you hoping to see?

Did we accomplish it?

That's a big question.

Um, I was excited when we first started the conversation, primarily because I've witnessed in my my own life with my own friends and family members, people have walked through different ideas and processes of deconstruction and done, you know, I think maybe poorly or maybe without support.

And so I loved the fact and was excited about the fact that we're going to take it on as a church and we're just gonna do our best to topically break down what this can be, how you can do it with God, how your church can support you in the process.

So I was definitely very excited.

I think um we probably could have added more weeks to it, if I were to be honest.

Um, but I think considering the time limitations and the weighty topics, I think I think we did a good job with it.

I'm I'm happy with um the heavy topics we talked about.

I I pray that everybody and then also the additional resources that we supply them.

I I really hope that people don't just listen, but maybe re-listen and that the Holy Spirit would help them know, like if they're in this process, how to take their next step or what resources are out there and not just let it stop at the Sunday messages or not let it just stop at, hey, we've concluded this series, but they realize this is a this is a series and all the resource inv included in it is something that they can bookmark so that maybe they're not in that process now, but maybe something happens down the road and they're in a situation and that they can refer to it.

So yeah, I think we did our best with such a big thing.

What's something that you maybe have had a shift in perspective on in terms of deconstruction, if at any, or maybe something has been confirmed that you thought about before?

Because to be honest with you, I hadn't really given this idea much thought or even knew what to call it.

So is there anything throughout the past few weeks that we've covered that again maybe you've had change and shift in perspective on?

Yeah.

I mean, I think the biggest thing was whenever I heard the word deconstruction, it honestly was taboo to me.

I think the way I perceived that was basically you're gonna end up on the other side of it not following God.

Because everywhere I've seen it used or referred to has always been, you know, on the other side I'm more enlightened and I no longer need God.

And so I tended to view it that way as well as if I heard somebody say that that was kind of a process they were in, immediately it freaked me out.

Um and I personally had not gone to my own season.

I've I've had plenty of questioning, doubting seasons, but I would never have labeled them as deconstruction because A, the word's kind of taboo to me, but B, I I think it's been more recent that this is a word that we hear a lot.

So I think what has been the most eye-opening for me is that A, it's healthy, um, and that we should always be in this process, not necessarily always deconstructing, but looking, and um I mentioned it on Sunday.

Like we need to be seeing what what do we believe and why do we believe it, and put it up against the word of God because we are humans and it's natural as we walk through this life that we're picking things up along the way that that does not actually line up with the truth of God's word.

And if you're not in that state of looking back and and really just assessing, you may have absorbed something that God never intended.

And I think that's what gets people in trouble.

Um, you know, I could see that even being the result of sometimes some of my friends when they've struggled with churches, it's because the things that were being put on them by the church or even self-added were these things that were never in line with God's word and who he is.

So that's been a healthy thing for me so that I don't look at it as so taboo for my friends, for my family members, but also for myself.

Uh you mentioned that um, you know, a lot of times we'll we'll look at our lives or we'll look at deconstruction in uh people's lives around us, and they come out with okay, I figured it out, right?

Like I I figured out what I need to know.

I'm enlightened, I don't need God anymore.

And I think if I'm looking at the story of the prodigal son, it's kind of that way.

He kind of you know, what you mentioned about the context of him asking for, okay, I want my inheritance, I don't really need you for that anymore.

When you were studying this narrative, is there anything new that kind of jumped out to you from the story?

Um because growing up in church and obviously you've worked for the church for how many years now?

I think fifteen.

Fifteen, you think counting very well.

Yeah, I think fifteen.

But yeah, I mean you've probably heard someone preach on the prodigal son a hundred times, but was there anything fresh from the story?

Yeah, honestly, if I were being really honest, I had not like referenced the prodigal son narrative in the Bible in a long time, like personally, just studying it.

Um I think the biggest there was a couple of things, and that's why originally I think um I was just gonna talk about the younger son, but as I was like digging in, I was realizing, wow, like I just saw this parallel between how the father chose to engage with both both of the sons.

And I just I'd seen that in a new perspective this time studying, and how he knew them so well that the way he chose to pursue them and relate to them was so specific, but it was really, really beautiful for where they both were, and um just really let me see the father's heart in a different perspective because when I've always heard it, I've always heard it highlighting the su the younger son's experience, which is a valid one, which is a really beautiful one and important for us to know.

But when you see the other side, for somebody like me who's been following God for so much of my life, it really challenged me.

It really made me think, how how have I acted or am acting like this older son?

And God just wants to be in the right relationship with me.

That was a big one.

And then the other thing that I thought was pretty eye-opening that I felt like God revealed to me through this studying was I've always thought that the narrative was supposed to help me be, was I was supposed to look at myself like the father.

And as I studied it, I really felt like it was the opposite, that I was just supposed to understand, look at the father, see what the father's doing, and and respond to it as the recipient of that father's love.

Um instead of feeling like, oh no, now because it would just be once again works-based.

Oh no, now I have to love like the father, I gotta, you know, it like just adds a to-do list.

And um for me, I felt like it was very releasing in a way of like, no, just look at the father, look how he's loving, and then be thankful.

And obviously that hopefully would lead to a response back toward God, back towards other people, but don't make that my focus of like reading the story through a lens of a to-do list.

Uh, I feel like sometimes the headers in the Bible can hinder us from being able to see the complete story because if you look it up, it literally sa the prodigal son, right?

Exactly.

As opposed to like what you're saying, it's probably about both.

Yeah.

It's it's about the entire story.

Like every element of what of Jesus' teaching is intentional, right?

Right.

Um and so yeah, it's it's always beautiful when you can get that revelation, so to speak, or when you can see it from a different perspective, because like you, I had never I'd always kind of looked at his the older son's character as like the supporting role and he just added more on to the younger son when in reality even what I you know thanked you for on Sunday was like, Man, I'm the I'm that guy.

Like I'm the guy out in the field, and I needed to hear what you had to say about that, you know.

So uh it is interesting how we can take for granted things that we hear and even not being heretical here, but things that we read, not that the headings in the Bible are inspired or anything, but you know what I mean.

Yeah.

Um you put emphasis on Jesus' uh audience.

And kind of before we jump into that though, like Jesus' answers, right?

For someone like me, if someone asks me a question, it's like yes or no.

Thank you.

But why do you think it's so important for Jesus to share that his answers in story manner or to have elaborate answers to things as opposed to maybe another method?

I mean, I just don't know if a yes or no would ever suffice the complexity of who God is and his character.

And so that's why it's always so beautiful and crazy to me that something that has always been in my Bible for the entirety of my life, and I'm 34 reading it in preparation and realize, whoa, I'd never seen it from this.

So just understanding my own interaction with his story response, knowing that that has proven over centuries for everybody who's ever been the audience or on the recipient end of his responses.

Like I just feel like that just more proves to me the complexity that is God and his character and things that don't make sense 99.9% of the time, and we're just trying to uncover and unpack who he is in all of his nonsensical, beautiful ways.

So, um, yeah, so I it's very Jesus because that's what we see him be when he's here on earth, um, and how he responds to people, but it's still like it's crazy to me that he does he considers the whole.

There's multiple people there.

They all have different experiences in life and where they are currently, their relationship with him, and he knows how to respond in one story that speaks to everybody.

Yeah, it's just crazy.

And he's not just answering the questioner.

Right.

He's saying it loud enough for everyone to hear, right?

Yeah.

And I think that was important to bring up and it gives new meaning to his answers and all the other parables or all the other questions that he 'cause there's m more than usually in the setting you can assume there's more than just the person asking the question around him.

Yeah.

Especially if it's saying Jesus was in the temple or Jesus was here.

Um obviously stuff like he's meeting Nicodemus one-on-one at night, but um yeah, in other settings it's it gets me thinking a little bit more, like who else is in the room when he's saying this and who else is hearing what he's saying?

Do you think we oversimplify God?

Like, do you think that we we try to simplify God?

Because you're talking about the complexity of the story as a way to understand or a way to recognize God's complexity, right?

Yeah.

Is that something that we crave or is it just me and my personality?

Like I just want the No, I think the human spirit, we just want tell me what's right, tell me what's wrong, tell me what's is what isn't.

Like I think there's security in that sometimes, having like a very clear um but I think yes, of course, he is absolutely complex, and I don't think I don't think we could ever we will never figure him out until we are there within his presence, you know, on the other side of eternity.

Do I think we're gonna even fully understand some things that here on earth make no sense?

So I do think we try to simplify him because it's easier that way.

It's takes some pressure off.

Um, but a lot of times I think when I've seen attempts at trying to simplify God, when you really look at it, it's people trying to get an answer of what it goes back to that works thing, like, okay, what am I allowed to do?

What I'm not allowed to do.

You know, it's a kind of that same, it seems in the same spirit of when the Pharisees and scribes are asking him those questions, like or accusing him.

It's in that same thing.

They want to just know, hey, is this right or wrong?

Or, you know, they're accusing that he's wrong for doing this.

And he always turns around, he speaks back to them, but he's not he's he's addressing them and addressing what they're asking, but he's addressing more of root things.

Like he's he always goes back to the heart, which is we know the heart is always more complex, and what drives us and our thoughts and our emotions are always more complex than the thing we're asking on the surface.

So I don't know if that answers you, but I think we I think we simplify God.

Yeah.

Let's uh put a parentheses on this conversation really fast.

How in the world did you get through security with a screwdriver?

They let me.

Weird, huh?

And they opened the gate for you.

I think they probably felt bad for me at that point.

Um, yeah, I think they felt bought bad for me as I'm like telling re retelling the story as well as freaking out that we're gonna miss our flight.

But they let me through.

It was a travel size, it was like maybe half size, but it had like all the different attachments if I needed to switch it out for like a flathead or a Phillips or an Allen Wrench attachment, so but they let me.

Yeah, and if you're not sure what we're referring to, which you know, in order to properly listen to after m the message, you gotta have context.

Listen to the message first, but Lindsay uh shared a illustration, a story of real life events that had to do with airport security and a screwdriver.

So check out the message if you get hit.

First person in history to I don't know if I'd be the first, but it was definitely on a good No, yeah.

I was thankful for the grace that I received that day.

Yeah.

Uh you kind of talked about the the older son maybe having a little bit of a skewed perspective.

Uh and I know that's one of my that's one of my biggest fears.

And I kinda talked to uh Dr.

Swoboda about that on the podcast was having bad theology, right?

Like and um not not not believing the right things or whatever, but in your in your life and your experience or maybe in uh advice or counsel to someone else, like what how would you counsel someone or what would you say to someone about correcting skewed?

perspective or encouraging them that they can get through their skewed perspective like what's the redemption for the for the older son um I mean I loved I honestly I really did love what um AJ Dr.

AJ Swoboda shared.

I listened to that one and its entirety a couple times and I felt like um at the same time of both releasing the pressure of trying to get it right like he did a good job of realizing hey we're all in process we're all gonna we're like him saying he goes back and reviews his stuff that he used to preach and was like really that's what I you know I think the idea here is that open hands open heart perspective that you realize we are all in process with God and if you kind of keep that posture I think we're going to allow God to reveal to us the areas that we get wrong along the way and hopefully fix it and change um because ultimately that is what repentance is that is that was the first step that the younger son and that we don't know if the older son did it but that would have been his first step too would be to turn see his wrongdoing and turn and so that repentance side of it um but you have to be in a posture to repent.

You can't be um with your you know perspective that you have it all right or you've got it together.

You have to realize that we will never have it all right and will not have it all together that's humanity.

So it's both relieving in some ways but it's also a lot of hard work because it's not a free pass to just say well um you know I can't get it right so that there's no attempts at righteousness or attempts at you know that that it it you kind of have to carry it in that weird tension and so you never really will have resolve but that's kind of I guess the process that we're in the journey right yeah what's what was what you said are you getting are you getting blown up on text message over there on that new iWatch Apple Watch is that what she said the the iWatch it's definitely not called that but I'm not um I did get one this past week right before Sunday which led me to realize my nerves I could maybe hide them from the congregation maybe I don't know but to myself and my Apple Watch it told me it was very yeah my eye watch said I was very nervous so taking my heart ready um okay someone you know we we you you kind of mentioned that the that first step is repentance or kind of turning and realizing the direction that you need to be going what's what does the journey look like after that right like someone someone for lack of a better phrase comes out of deconstruction on the other side like they're like okay I believe help my unbelief what where do I go what do I do what what steps do I take I mean I can ideate I've never gone through that sort of process to that place of deconstruction and being on the other side so you know I want to reserve a little bit of space there where it's like I'm gonna deduce but I don't know if um this is the proper thing.

I think on the other side um as using the example of both the younger and the older son the whole point was to just get be at the table in the presence of of God like being at this table which sounds very like okay that's a metaphor so what does that mean?

I think it can mean a lot for a lot of people but I think the right being in right relationship with him going back maybe to the basics of what that looks like um I think that would maybe be my first step how do you re-engage with the basics um the spiritual disciplines that are very clearly evident pray worship community some of those things that um maybe through a series of your process of deconstruction like the younger son running away he wasn't around his friends he wasn't around his family he was trying to figure it out isolated so re-engagement for him probably had to he had to go have some conversations with people he hadn't seen in a while he probably had to have some conversations with his dad and his brother and like he had to re-engage um to be present again um and for the older son like we obviously don't know what he decided but I think his process would have been similar he would need to have walked through the threshold go inside engage um I don't think it is going to be easy for either of them but I think on the other side go back to the basics and um and try to do your best to focus solely on God and his word like don't overcomplicate it at that point.

Now I know that may be in contradiction to us oversimplifying God but I think I'm saying don't over don't overcomplicate how to re-engage with God.

Right.

You know we immediately think okay well now we need to go through all of these hoops and all of these steps but as we see even in the story of the prodigal son like God wasn't even asking the father wasn't even asking the younger son to go through a bunch of steps.

He was just thankful he turned and returned and then he immediately was ready to be in relationship with him.

So I think that's the kind of stuff when I'm saying don't overcomplicate it like you don't need to walk through a bunch of steps for re-engagement just engage.

Does God's mercy ever get old to you?

You know what I mean?

Like do you 'cause whenever I hear you or anybody kind of talk about this aspect of the father was ready.

It still blows my mind every single time.

Yeah.

And it's and it it's still so hard to believe.

And I think that that can be that can be part of the issue, right?

Yeah.

The fact that that's just too good to be true.

And we even have theologies based around the fact that it that just can't be right because it's too good to be true.

Um so there is one perspective of well yeah we're not here to abuse God's or take advantage of God's mercy, right?

Yeah.

But the fact that it is available um without asking a very pointed question what's what's your take on that wondering what the pointed question would have been.

Not saying I want to answer it but I don't have one.

Oh okay got it so the original question was does God's mercy ever get old?

Yeah I mean it just it's astounding to me every time I especially in this narrative you know yeah I don't think it gets old but I think when anything becomes difficult to understand or beyond even our human grasp, uh we we can have a tendency to discard it or or add things to it in order to make it make logical sense for us.

And I think that's you know religion.

I think that we see that happen often um I was even processing throughout the week knowing that this new perspective was I saw this new perspective of God and his love with the older son and then processing it as I'm right like real time lifetime disciplining my children and thinking like, you know just it's just funny how like while you're preparing for something God also kind of like challenges you at certain moments in your own personal life.

So I don't think it ever gets old but I do think when something is hard for us to understand we can have a tendency to either ignore it, rationalize it away, add things to help it kind of reconcile in our spirits but no I don't think it gets old and that's why if we allow ourselves to look at God and look at these examples that are all around us in our own lives but also in the text we're astounded because it is hard to understand it is hard and it causes us to grapple with that idea of like okay wait that's us.

He's trying to love me that way and I've added all of these things to my relationship with him or I'm seeing this other person in my life with all these added things that I've put on them and and that's where I think we get in trouble.

But yeah it's it's complex but at the same time it's simple because we don't have to really do anything we just have to be the recipient of and that's hard for our brains.

We want we want you know a cleaner okay I have to do this then you do this and then it gets this but that's yeah that's what makes it crazy.

How do we how do we realize that how would we identify the fact that we're in religion and not relationship like what i because we've we've mentioned it a couple times throughout the series you know the distinction between and you even said you know sometimes we just pick up religion.

Um what are some signs for someone that may not even be aware of the fact that they are caught in a cycle of religiosity as opposed to a relationship with God.

Yeah that's a hard one um I think human tendency is to default to that the idea of religion we like you know cause and effect we like we do this like I said and this is the result um I think the example of the older son if you just maybe heard the message maybe you didn't hear the message you've never really studied it for yourself I think that's a huge um for me it was it was really challenging and helpful maybe start reading some of that stuff maybe dig into um some of the narrative yourself and see if you get any sort of eye-opening experience from that but I think from a very practical standpoint what I was saying at the beginning of the message about taking inventory that for me was that's that for me is something that I don't think we should ever stop really doing um and that what that does I think is it allows you to what is this thing that I'm believing?

What is this thing that I'm is motivating me or asking some of those self-reflection kind of questions and a lot of times emotions can be indicators of that like what are the things that are getting you upset or bugging you or where are you finding frustration?

Go to the core of that okay a lot of times you'll figure out from that okay the thing that's really bugging me or the thing that's causing this is I believe this or I really am frustrated about how this happened and that will typically highlight a belief a core thing that's happening that you thought think someone should have treated you away or you're frustrated on an outcome there's a there's a belief attached to it.

You believe something should have happened differently someone should have treated you differently you should have responded differently something is going to be highlighted there and I think that's where whether it's speaking about it with a trusted friend or journaling about it but regardless of what that reveals to you is what I was saying is taking it and putting it up against the word of God finding where the contradictions are because that's where we can find the highlighted moments of oh wait a second I'm believing something that was never intended for me to believe that's not easy and I don't know if that's the one way I don't know if you have a different experience or perspective in moments that you've realized okay this is probably religion.

This is me trying to make something logical that's not supposed to be logical or but yeah I don't know if you have a different thought or perspective.

I mean my my propensity is to always go to that just because it makes more sense to me like well yeah I need to do this because it's the right thing to do, right?

Or God asks us to do this, I'm going to do it.

So um so I I'm definitely a little bit more I need to be more cautious of that I think and it's even something that has been uh brought to the surface throughout this series that I don't know if God's dealing with me on it yet but I know that I'm dealing with me on it on it at at this point in time so trying to walk through that with God, you know?

Yeah and I think that was the part of the older son's story that was so um challenging for me is how near in proximity the older son was but yet he was not reaping any of the benefits, you know, if you want to call them he was not even in relationship with his father.

He was near but he was far in his heart.

And so that would I would say it would be the ultimate heartbreak for me is that you know even thinking through my own children I would hate it to to fast forward down the road and know that I was around them.

We were you know in physical proximity but far in relationship and far in heart and I know um we all have a tendency to do that and that's how um I think that can be an indicator for us is what's your motivator?

What's are you trying to do it because it's being asked of you or are you trying to do it because it's a response to your your love and relationship for God and with God.

But the beautiful thing is he loves both sons equally he pursued both sons equally um so I don't think he looks at it and go oh well I have more love for the younger son and I'm gonna lavish him differently no I think it's available to whatever who whichever son and and whoever you are and wherever you are in your journey um but it does require us to turn be aware of us being far from him um yeah last thing for you someone that's um they're ready to kind of re-engage right and one of the things that you mentioned was uh community but perhaps part of their apprehension is the community what what would you say to that person like Yeah I mean part of the reason why I started questioning things was because of church or because of the setting the Christian setting that I was in like how would how would you encourage them to to take that next step?

Would you uh tell them to do something different?

I mean what what would you what would you say?

Yeah I mean that's that's hard because obviously it can there can be varying degrees of hurt, pain, trauma, things that can come from the community that maybe you left from um so it's hard to give a one answer but I feel like for maybe the majority of people um I think you need to go through your own process of healing before you just try to jump back in.

And I think what I mean by that is um in those settings you have to be very aware of what boundaries are of what um I think a lot of this was brought up during our mental health panel there are things that can happen both to you um or within you that can help you know okay this is a measure measuring that something's happening either I'm being you know verbally abused or maybe maybe it's not even that maybe it's manipulation or it can be subtle more subtle things but I think you need to go through some process um that can get you to a place that you know if something's healthy or not because if you're responding if you've come from a season of pain and then you re-enter an environment that can maybe look similar or maybe be re-triggering you have to know if is it triggering for an actual right like is there really a reason why it's triggering or is it because I've just not fully healed from um an environment that looks similarly so I would say maybe make sure you've done personal work and hopefully you have um but man God created us for community we have to be in community with humans.

We cannot walk this life isolated and so while I know it can be hard and painful whatever we walk through with people especially in the faith community because it can be so intertwined with like your faith in God and your faith in people and it can just get messy but God created us for community so I would just say do the work do your best and then sometimes you have to do baby steps.

It's okay to do a phased approach um start slow but but you need it so you can't just you know that cliche throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm really bad at cliches that's why I hesitate to say them.

Well I called your watch an eye watch so that's true but I think in that similar like you can't just throw it all away but I can understand and empathize with that process of maybe things would be triggering and maybe you don't and and the problem is is like there's no guarantee because humans are humans and no matter where you try to choose to re-engage it's never going to be a hundred percent safe well meaning or not you know so humans are humans and they will never not be a human so um you're bound to to trip and stumble but that should never be a good enough excuse that you don't do the thing that you were created to do and that's to be in community.

So I don't think I have a clean answer but I don't normally I typically talk in more circles but I definitely think it's important to re-engage but make sure you do some healing and it's fine to do baby steps and really make sure that there's spaces of trust that you're building you're not just going in like fully exposing who you are and you know you kind of have to do that incrementally.

Yeah.

Uh I'm about to hit stop on the recording and um we'll close the series you get the last word.

Wow anything else I didn't want the last word that's why I was so like reluctant to even speaking on Sunday.

I was like I this has been a weighty subject and series for me.

Like I didn't even feel like I felt like I was learning things and who am I then to put a you know end period on this series.

So I don't know I just um I did really love the fact that we got to just talk about the simple but profound idea of who God is and his love and how he wants to be with us.

And so like if anything can give us hope if anything can give us reassurance that we will be okay is that we're not doing any of this alone and so I think wherever we are whatever where we're wherever we will find ourselves because we don't know what tomorrow's going to bring we don't know if there's pain or trauma on the other side of something um but we do know who will be with us regardless.

And so find rest find peace find reassurance in that even though it may be hard and painful things ahead like you can't ensure none of that will happen but we can ensure who we're going to be with so that was very um helpful for me as a reminder not only for myself but in these processes where I've seen my friends and my family members walk through like God is with and ready to re-engage with anybody.

So yeah.

And with that and with that we conclude uh this season of After the message and uh thank you guys so much for for joining us we're we're honored that you would um and we also if you're in the Orlando area and you want to come hang out with us on a Sunday be sure to do so um and stay tuned for a new season of After the message whenever that may be I'm assuming it's going to be in the fall but uh so thankful for you guys.

If there's anything we can do for you please reach out but until next time thank you for joining us for After the message to learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebrationorl or visit our website at celebrationorl.org