After the Message | Greater Than | Week 3

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This is a this is the Celebration Church Orlando podcast and a segment we like to call After the Message.

And it's just simply a conversation of the previous Sunday sermon, and in this case, just kind of a conversation about our series in general.

Uh and today I am joined by uh my friend and our brother Vinny.

Vinny, how are you, sir?

I'm good.

How are you?

I'm doing great.

And as tradition goes, uh, we like to go ahead and welcome those who are listening in Brazil.

Would you do that for us?

Sure.

And though you have no idea.

One day I'm gonna know.

That's my parents on uh at church last Sunday.

As I was preaching, they were like, Yes, and then I asked, Did you get it?

And then they were they were like, No, zero.

Nothing.

Nothing.

My my uncle said the only word I get was the was the word uh Tennessee.

That's what he said.

Amazing.

That's absolutely amazing.

Parents, your family was here for how long?

Uh 17 days.

17 days.

We had a blast.

It was amazing.

Yeah, it looked like a lot of fun.

Yeah.

For those of you uh who've kind of been following along with us, maybe you haven't, that's okay too.

Uh, we are in a series called Greater Than, and uh we are exploring uh the great book of Hebrews and the best book of Hebrews, the best one.

The best.

Let's go ahead and let's go ahead and start there.

For sure.

Why is it the best period in the New Testament and the Old Testament?

Because I've asked you this before, and you told me like your favorite book of the Bible was like Kings or something, right?

There's no such a thing, nobody would say kings.

I think I think Daniel is amazing, Joshua is amazing, Hebrews is amazing, Malachi is amazing.

So I put the four and Genesis.

I'll put the five of then up there.

But the majority of those Old Testament books, yeah, other than Hebrews, which refers to the Old Testament.

Exactly, because I'm uh I am a 60 years old guy stoked into a 34 years old buddy.

That's it.

So you're saying So I like old stuff.

When you when when I turn 60, I'm gonna have a greater appreciation for the Old Testament.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Okay.

Yes.

For those of you who are not 60 yet, just wait.

Exactly.

Read the Old Testament when you're 60.

Get very familiarized with the Gospels, read Acts, Romans, all the letters, and then when you turn 60.

Ezekiel.

Exactly.

All the prophets.

It's something God gives it to you when you turn 60.

The appreciation for the old stuff.

You guys thought retirement was something to look forward to.

No, no, no, no.

It's definitely Exodus.

Hebrews.

Hit me.

Amazing.

I think I what I really like about it.

Well, two things.

I think one, it's very cle it it is it is written in a very clever way.

So if you appreciate a good argumentation, is that a word?

Yeah.

You would love Hebrews because it it is very smart in a very disrespectful way, if I can put that way.

Of course, the the author he's not trying to be disrespectful, but he will get everything that it's important to a Jew, and he's going to compare with Jesus to prove his point that Jesus is better, Jesus is greater than everything.

Jesus is greater than angels, Jesus is greater than Moses, which is a big deal for a Jew.

Jesus is greater than Abraham, Jesus is greater than the law.

But his again, his argumentation is not as simple as oh, Jesus is greater.

No, he he writes the 13 chapters, and then at the end of it, you just you just understand.

Oh yeah, he's right.

Jesus is greater.

So that's why I love it because it's very detailed, detailed, smart, and confrontative.

Um not confrontative in a in a in an exhortation way, it's more confrontative in a way of let's rethink everything you know, and let me present you a new a new idea.

That's why I love it so much.

It's not just a blanket statement like okay, Jesus is the best.

No, is it okay?

Well, why?

Well, let me show to you in 13 chapters.

Yeah.

And it it is so well done.

I think in the kind of in the modern church, we can be guilty of that.

We can have these broad statements about God, or you know, we can be talking about Jesus will change your life.

Okay, cool.

Well, for somebody that has no context or understanding, or has even experienced that, laying out an argument for why could be a good approach to this.

Exactly, for sure.

And and I think in his specific situation, he's just putting in front of then a lot of argumentation for people that knows God very well and the Bible very well.

So he needs to be extra smart in order to convince him that or then that Jesus is greater, Jesus is better.

Yeah.

This passage so just one more thing.

That's why I think it's so precious, even though it was written for for those Jews in that situation.

So if you're not familiarized, it was written probably in 65 after Christ, and Jews they were going through through a season of persecution and and uh hard moments in their lives, so they were being tempted to go back to Judaism.

Why?

Pretty much do you know because it is comfortable, you know, because it is comfortable to live by rituals than live by faith.

It is way more comfortable to live your life in a way that, well, I've been doing this my entire life, why I'm gonna change it.

It's the same situation that we see in Exodus when the people is finally free from slavery, and now they are in a desert going to the promised land, and then at some point they they they turn to Moses and say, We want to go back.

Why?

Why do you want to go back to a place of slavery?

Because there all even being slaves, they know exactly what to expect, right?

So that's the same type of situation, and now that what the author is doing is writing a letter to encourage them not to go back to to the old practices of Judaism because Jesus is greater, Jesus is better.

Um, so he's trying to present then a new style of life, living by faith, not by sacrifices, living by faith, not by ritual, living by faith in Jesus, not the old faith and and and tradition of your parents.

Um so that's that that's why it's so complex and beautiful, and of course, we're just scratching the surface of the thing, but it's very, very deep in theology as well.

It's kind of like you hear stories, or I don't know if everybody has, but I've heard of people intentionally getting arrested because they're more comfortable being because they get three meals a day, they have shelter, perhaps their life isn't so great outside, and jail is actually a better alternative because it would be harder for them to figure it out to try and figure out something.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So for us, I think that metaphor makes sense, but in your opinion, if Jesus is so great well, I guess not your opinion, but you know, you can help us here with this perspective.

If Jesus is so great, why at times is it so difficult?

And I'm sure that's what they're thinking.

They're probably reading that going, yeah, but dude, we're being persecuted or things are not good right now.

How can you say Jesus is great because there isn't these tangible things that I can touch and go to, it is faith.

That's difficult.

I mean, that's just hard that's just a hard way to live, honestly.

Yes.

Well, I don't to be honest, I don't I don't have the answer for this question.

I I I think it's a paradox that we will we'll have to learn how to live with um I I think what the what the author is saying is Jesus is greater, Jesus is better, but I d what he's saying is your life uh isn't going to be easier.

So there is a difference here, right?

What he's saying is with Jesus you have solution.

With Jesus you have an exit.

But your life, just because Jesus is greater than tradition, Jesus is greater than religion, your life it's not going to be easier.

Um that's a a a very important thing.

I think we are always trying to look for easy solutions.

Yes.

Jesus is not is not that.

No.

There is if you're looking for something easy, there is better options out there.

Jesus is the greatest, the better solution, and to be honest with you, the only one.

All the other easiest or easier solutions, they're just illusion.

So I think that's the point.

Why why they want to go back to Judaism because it's easier.

Why they want to go back to desert because it's easier.

But only if you live by faith in Jesus is when you ha when you find solu the real deal, the real solution.

Yeah.

Let's talk about the only option for a second, because that in our in our culture, that doesn't that doesn't jive, as they would say.

That's just not something that people will accept.

And they would look at they would look at people like us who would claim that and say that you're hateful because of that.

My view is actually I'm I'm being very compassionate by telling you that.

Um and I'm not being I don't think that I have it all figured out, but I think that I've found something that makes sense.

Or you know what I mean?

If you're going the wrong way down the road and I know the destination you're trying to get to, and I don't tell you, hey, actually you need to make a U-turn and go west instead.

I'm being I'm actually being rude because I'm not telling you the proper way.

Exactly.

So for people that have trouble maybe expressing that to unbelievers, do you have a do you have advice for them or a way that they can that they could possibly have a a great conversation about this or maybe even model their life to where it could be?

I think the best way of doing that, that's a great question.

You're you're asking questions that I don't have answers for it now.

Well, none of us really do.

I just trying to get your perspective.

I think my perspective my spirit my perspective is when I say it's the only way possible, I'm not trying to to convince you of anything.

Got it.

I'm just sharing my personal testimony.

Got it.

So what's your favorite burger here in America?

Mine?

Good question.

I think right now, as it stands today.

Okay.

You know, I like that.

Smash Burger.

Okay, that's that's a really good one.

I think my favorite is well, that's a that's a Smash Burger is amazing.

Maybe five guys is just a little bit better.

Okay, in my perspective.

But I remember first time I had it.

Uh I was not leaving here.

I came to visit America, had five guys, went back to Brazil, living my life, and then when somebody said to me, Hey, I'm going to America in a month.

What should I eat?

The very first thing I'm gonna do is, hey, listen, you must have five guys because it's amazing.

And it's funny, nobody thinks that's offensive or rude or whatever, because I'm telling that through the the start point of this is not trying to convince you to do anything you don't want to do.

The point is, I had that before, and I'm sharing sharing sharing with you my experience that in a Christian world we would say my testimony.

So so when I say it's the only way possible, what I'm not doing is saying if you don't do this, you are condemned.

What I'm not saying is if you don't do this, you are screwed.

That's what I'm not saying.

What I'm saying is I've tried both, and I can tell you, living by faith is eating at five guys.

Yes.

I think what's been difficult though is there have been tradition traditionally, to get back to tradition, there have been um groups or uh certain people, the loudest of the pack, if you will, who have gone that other route.

And it's almost difficult, it's like, come on, man.

You know, like we're all sitting over here, like, come on, that's not you're not helping, right?

Uh and again, I don't think that anybody does it well, maybe they do, but I don't think anybody does it ill, have ill will about that.

I genuinely think that they have concern for people who possibly aren't on a path that they believe leads to life, and they're concerned that they're living a life that leads to death, right?

So they're just telling them that.

Exactly.

So I think that's what the the difficult the caveat, if you will, of that whole scenario is, right?

For sure.

For sure.

I think I think it's also it's also understanding that how you communicate plays a great part.

So again, at the end of the day, the truth is the truth.

But there's a lot of different ways on how to communicate that.

Yeah.

So doing communicating about the about how amazing it is to live with Christ always through the lenses and always with the start point they start playing being compassion, love.

I just want to tell you my testimony.

I think that's that's the caveat.

Yeah, I think where people get tripped up too is they think that they have to have all of the and biblical knowledge and all that stuff is great and it helps you, but telling your personal story is gonna be so much more powerful.

Like for me, it it just comes down to dude, I don't know how I would live life without I have no idea.

I don't know how I would function, especially if I receive horrible news or if I'm going through something.

I just don't know how I do it without Jesus.

Yep.

And maybe you can, but I can't, and I would be miserable if I didn't.

Exactly.

That so so see, that's what I'm saying.

It's just you sharing basically what you said is for me, faith is the only way possible.

But you did in a way that is it's very personal, it's your testimony.

So I don't know why people would get offended with that.

Yeah, you're not being rude.

Yeah, how is that different than what we find ourselves in with the my truth culture?

How how is that how does that I think about that every time because we Christians we have the tendency to believe well, not believe, but to approach other people as we are the honors of the truth.

I know, I know it, and if you don't believe exactly in what I believe, you are wrong, I'm right.

We do that because we have faith in Jesus, we have faith in the Bible, so if the Bible is saying A, I believe that's the truth.

If you if you're saying B, you're wrong.

How do we live a modern life telling the truth or what we believe is the truth, but not sounding like we are the owner of it, it's it's difficult.

It's difficult.

I think a great way of thinking this is I'm not the owner of the truth, I'm the I'm the owner of my truth, and that's it.

You know, and um I yes, I believe the the the Bible is the word of God.

I believe that we we need to put our trust in the Lord, but if you don't believe that, I cannot judge you as oh, you're so wrong.

Right.

Even though inside of me I think you're wrong.

Yeah, so that's what's what's hard.

Yeah, for sure.

Maybe we should uh keep the conversation going with this at Jesus in the workplace.

That would be amazing.

Yeah.

Happening when is it 22nd?

Yeah, 22nd.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you're in in the Orlando area and you want to uh come to Jesus in the workplace, we're gonna be talking about this very thing.

So 630.

630 at Orlando Museum of Art.

Uh let's talk about tradition a little bit because we've been saying, you know, Jesus is greater than tradition.

The writer of Hebrews is trying to help people not fall back on their tradition.

It can't be that bad of a thing, though, right?

Like we all have traditions and so when we're saying that Jesus is greater than that, what are we actually saying?

What we're saying is You're right.

Tradition is is not about you have family traditions, you your culture, cultural traditions.

They're things that you practice and do because th they mean something to you.

For sure.

I think I think tradition and lifestyle for a Jew it is pretty much the same thing, right?

As God.

They they they live their lives, they had so many things they like you must do this, but sacrifices like this.

They have five types of sacrifices, one for each stuff, each season of the year.

Hey, this is how you dress, this is how you eat, this is how so tradition for them, it's almost like a lifestyle.

And we all have traditions, and this is not a bad thing.

I think the bad thing is when you make your tradition your God, that's the thing.

It's it's your idol.

Hey, I'm saved because I dress like this.

Hey, I'm saved because I don't eat, I don't eat this.

I'm saved because on that specific day of the year I do such and such.

So when you put your faith on tradition, that's when things are like, ooh, sorry, this is just an idol.

What the author is saying is Jesus is greater than Jesus is greater than tradition because Jesus is God.

So you're not putting your faith or you're not adjusting your lifestyle to a new type of tradition.

You're adjusting your lifestyle to what God wants from you.

So there is there is there is nothing in between you and God, just your faith.

Tradition is I have so many stuff between myself and God, and that's my tradition.

What the author is saying is let's remove this.

Now, between you and God, nothing, only Jesus.

That was just the warm-up.

You ready for the hard stuff?

Come on.

Hate me.

The the author a a few different times tells us not to turn back.

Tells us and there's even there's some pretty um uncomfortable things to read in Hebrews, at least from my perspective, regarding knowing Jesus and then rejecting Jesus.

And there's books and whole um schools of thought around this idea of salvation, once saved, you're always saved, you know, there's no way to Oh my gosh, we're going there.

We're going there.

I first of all, I want to know what the original author meant, or at least try to understand based on that context, what he's saying, there's no greater sa you know, there's no more sacrifice if you have if you know the truth, you've accepted the truth, and then you turn away from the truth, you're basically nailing Jesus to the cross again, you know, by by your sin, by living a lifestyle that so first of all, why is he bringing that up?

Are there do we have cause to believe that there are people who are doing that, or is he warning them not to get too far off?

Do you know why he's why he's bringing that up in that time period?

Yeah.

Well, we have one of the most difficult passage in the Bible, I believe it's in Hebrews, where he says that if you know Jesus, if you lived your life and you turn away from him, it is impossible that's the word, or at least in Portuguese, it is impossible for you to be regenerated for life.

So I'm gonna tell you what I believe.

I believe grace is uh bigger than anything.

I believe there is always grace for me, but I also believe that uh once I know Jesus and I understand the sacrifice, and now I'm trying to adjust my life to to to his standards, let's put that way.

Uh one day I sin and then I regret and then Jesus accept me back.

And then on a Tuesday I sin again and I regret, regret, and Jesus accept me back.

And then I sin, sin, sin, sin, and then I regret and Jesus accept me back.

But I also believe there is something that happens with sin when you don't regret is you are taking one step further or away from God.

The Bible tell encourages us to take steps further, and as we get closer to God, God gets closer to us.

But what happens when we take steps away from God?

We sin and then we take one step away, and then we sin again, we take one step away, we sin again and we take one step away.

And then if you regret right there, Jesus is ready for you, and you're back in this relationship, you're close, but you sin and you don't you don't regret, you sin, you don't regret, you sin, you don't regret, you sin, you don't regret, and then you will get to a point that you don't you don't listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit anymore.

We all know this feeling when we make when we make a mistake, or let's not let's not say make a mistake.

When we sin, we hear God, God in our heart saying, uh right?

You need that's that's not cool, man.

But when you sin, sin, sin, sin, sin, you you don't regret, you get to a point that you don't hear that anymore.

Right.

You got used to a sin.

That's when the Bible says you are living a life full of sin.

And that point you are so far away from God, you are not close to Him anymore.

You were far, far, far to a point that you look around and where is God?

God is far.

That's when you start questioning your faith.

That's when you do like, oh, what I lived in the past, it was just an illusion.

It was not an illusion.

The thing is, in the past you were so close to him, it was easy to see him, it was easy to listen to him.

Now you're so far, the Holy Spirit is not, or the Holy Spirit is still bugging you, but you can't you can hear because you are so immersed in this life of sin, you don't see God anymore.

That's when you lose your faith.

That's when you go, I don't think I believe God anymore.

That when you get to that point, and of course you die in that point, it's what what I think what the author is saying, it is impossible to be because you deny it.

There's nothing you well, I I guess that is, but if you uh die in that situation, it is impossible for you to be regenerated for life.

Now, of course, it doesn't matter where you are, you are just one step away from God, it's just regretting, recognizing, and God will be right there to take you back.

So I think what the author is saying is if you allow yourself to live a life full of sin, knowing the truth, you are putting Jesus on the cross again.

You are he already paid for your sins, you your sins, you know that, and you're still doing this purposely.

One thing is making a mistake, one thing is choosing.

So, what the author is saying is when you choose to sin, when you're where you're you're living your life so far away from God that you were you are immersed in this life of sin, that's putting Jesus back in the cross.

That's what Hebrews is saying.

I think it's chapter five.

It is impossible to be regenerated because you don't have faith anymore, you don't believe anymore.

It seems to me that it's a little bit more of us rejecting as opposed to God giving up.

For sure.

God never gives up.

Never.

Yeah, it takes just one second for you to regret, and God will be ready to forgive.

But when you are on that stage of life, it's so hard to regret.

Yeah.

Why are you regretting?

You don't even believe God is a thing anymore.

Right.

You became your own God.

You don't have a Lord anymore.

You are your own Lord.

So I think that's how you can look at a passage like nothing can separate us from the love of God and say, Well, yeah, God's God's love isn't contingent upon it, but your your position could be.

Is that what you is that what you mean?

I'm talking exactly about position.

Yeah.

And now that you are about to be a dad, you will understand this that there is nothing Cliff can do that that is going to change your love for him.

Yeah.

Nothing.

You will always love him.

It doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter what he does, what he is, the choices he makes.

It doesn't matter.

But he can position himself out of your love.

He can reject that.

And that's what we do with with Jesus sometimes.

And again, I just want to be very clear here.

We all we all sin.

Yes.

We're all trying to figure this out.

That was my next question.

We all we all we're all trying to figure this out.

I sin, Nate sin, we're all trying to figure it out.

What I'm saying is when you do that purposely, one thing is making a mistake.

The other thing is when you are in front of a temptation and then you decide to do this.

And then you can regret and you will be fine, but if you keep going that path, that's a death death path for sure.

Yeah, at that point, kind of back to faith, you're not you're putting your fate in your own hands as opposed to putting it in the hands of Jesus.

Perfect.

Yes.

You're not you're not.

And I think you even touched on it on Sunday.

Um you're saying you're you're not trusting that Jesus has your best interest in mind.

You're saying, well, I actually kind of like this way better.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And so can't really blame God on that one.

Living according to your will is the opposite of faith.

It's having faith in you.

I know what's best for my life.

Yeah.

And to be honest with you guys, we know nothing.

Yeah.

We know nothing.

What what strengthens your faith?

How have there been moments or seasons or certain milestones in your life where you had you it it was almost like a jolt or uh an inspiration of faith to where you took a step closer.

You know what I mean?

As opposed to a step back, as opposed to getting in that dangerous spot of like, man, do I believe what I believe?

Yeah.

There's gotta be things that move us closer, right?

Yeah, well, two things.

Romans tells us that, right?

Romans says that the faith comes by listening to the word.

So that's why for for me is a negotiable.

One of my how do you say non-negotiable?

Non-negotiable is reading the word every day.

Because that brings me faith, that feeds my my faith.

So that's one thing.

The second thing is I always try to put in front of me in different types of ways.

So sometimes I write songs about it, sometimes I write a post-it and and glue somewhere.

Moments that by faith God did something amazing.

Like in your own life?

In my own life, yes.

It's like memorials of things God did in the past that I always try to bring back to memory.

Hey, you have no reasons to doubt right now because in the past, this is what God did.

So this is the two things I do: Bible, Bible, Bible, personal testimonies, personal testimonies.

Now, as I said on Sunday, in a very vulnerable way, I struggle with that every day.

God has never failed.

He credit score with me is ten thousand, but sometimes an unbelieving heart is right there inside of my chest, and I need to pause, pray, read, and bring back those testimonies.

Uh, that that encounter that that guy had with Jesus Mark chapter 9, when he said, Help me overcome my unbeliefs.

Mark 9 · chapter mention

That's my prayer every week.

Every week.

I always feel tempted to go back to this place of I can figure this out.

I'll call someone, someone is going to help me.

Thank God I have insurance.

Surrounding myself with things that if something goes wrong, I have a plan B.

And I'm not saying having insurance, having having friends, having money is a bad thing.

What I'm saying it's easy for us to put our trust and our faith in those things.

Or at least it is easy for me.

So God always brings me back to this place of huh, unbelieving heart, huh?

Okay, let's work on that every week, brother.

So I struggle with that.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Right.

But what I do is I go back to my Bible and I go back to personal testimonies.

If God did in the past, he's still the same, he will do it again.

Hopefully.

Does that ever get exhausting though?

Like it's don't you ever think like, come on, it's like going to the gym for me.

Living by faith is running a marathon, bro.

It's exhausting.

It's so easy to, you know.

And again, listen to me, folks.

I'm not saying having having things around you that can help you is a bad thing.

Right.

I'm saying that when you put your trust in those things, that's that's the issue.

But it yes, it is exhausting.

But I that's the life, at least for me, God is always encouraging me to encourage you, encourage me to live.

It's crazy how time and time again we always get back.

And if you if you go to if you go to church three out of the four Sundays a month, chances are you're gonna hear this a hundred percent of the time that you're there.

Scripture engagement, praying prayer simple.

Showing up.

Yep.

So simple.

And yet time and time again, especially being on this side of it and and and actually being in ministry vocationally, and our part of our job is being there on a Sunday, but time and time again, s not not seeing the faces, you know what I mean, of someone, and like why why is that so difficult for us?

And who could say?

I mean, maybe if I'm not, you know, in all transparency, maybe there are some things that I'm not doing if it's not my job, you know.

Hopefully that's not the case, because anyways, do you get what I mean?

Like, why is that so difficult for us to to look at it and go, this is what's gonna give me the faith that I need to sustain through life, but yet I don't do it.

I think it's two things.

I think, and I I don't want to be shallow here, but I truly believe it's two simple things.

One is the personal discipline.

If you think if you truly believe this is important to you, make it make this a priority.

You know, we've been saying, we've been preaching, we've been singing about pretty much what you said.

Read your Bible, spend time with prayer, show up.

Easy.

If you truly think that this is good to you, prioritize it.

That's thing number one.

And then thing number two, understanding that this is a spiritual thing, everything will be against you taking those steps.

So understand that you need to overcome things in order to to keep reading your Bible, to keep prayer, be be have a prayer life to keep showing up.

You have to you you you will face adversity because it is in a spiritual thing.

So overcome it.

Yeah, I was uh um a personal testimony that I never shared on on Sunday.

Uh Friday, Friday, Friday morning.

I came to the office 4 30 in the morning to start to start prep for the message.

And uh I spent a couple of hours in prayer, and then I decided to open my Bible.

I was reading it, I was trying to listen to the voice of God, and everything was was great.

I was like, okay, I already have the the the verse I'm going to preach about, Hebrews chapter 3, verse 12.

Hebrews 3:12

I already know I want to talk about not having unbelieving hearts.

I know I'm talking about faith.

I'm trying to write and unpack this idea on what faith is.

Great progress, 8 30 already.

I I got an email.

And then I I checked my phone and I decided to click on an email.

And the email I got is just I had to go to to I had to go see a doctor a couple weeks ago, and I was under the impression my insurance would cover everything, and I then I just got an email the hospital charging me$3,000 for for the visit.

And when I read that, bro, my world collapsed for a second, and I'm here in the office by myself trying to figure to figure out how I'm going to preach a message on faith, having an email charging me$3,000, and then I'm figuring out I'm trying to pray and I can't pray, I'm trying to write and I can't focus because of bad news.

I decided to drive back home, and I am as I'm driving back home, I just listened God speak or had an impression God was trying to tell me something.

I stopped for a second, and then it's just God saying, Wait a second.

What are you doing?

You're trying to teach something to the church, and I'm trying to teach you the same thing.

So listen.

Calm down.

Don't get crazy.

Don't call your friends trying to figure it out.

Don't call your parents trying to figure it out.

Don't go to the bank account, check how much.

Take it easy.

One step at a time.

We'll figure this out later.

Now let's focus on how to have faith.

So, see, I I struggle with that as well.

It is a a spiritual wall warfare.

Is that how you say it?

But it also it is also discipline.

It's my choice to put it aside.

Hey, listen, now I'm going to spend time with God.

It doesn't matter what surround what surrounds me.

I'm going to spend time with God.

I'm going to read my Bible.

I'm going to church.

It's my decision.

But it's also understanding there's a warfare.

And in order to be successful, you need to overcome.

Last thing for us here.

There seems to be a couple different approaches within that story that you just shared that came to light.

So someone could live their life, and there are people who totally live their lives like this, and we were talking before we started recording how jealous we are of these people.

But someone could live their life, sit down at their Bible, and truly believe that God's going to show me the passage, God's going to show me exactly what I need to say, God's going to speak through me, God's going to reveal the truth, and like, and it's just all God.

Then there are other people who would have like, yes, I believe in God, but I also believe God has equipped me to have reason and knowledge and understand.

And they can lean so heavily on, I'm going to pick a passage, I'm going to research, I'm going to, you know what I mean?

I'm I'm going to look at it logically.

I'm going to try and think what the author's saying in this passage.

And so we can apply that to prepping a sermon, or we can apply that to what should I pick up and move my family here?

Yep.

Or either right or wrong, because that's how I think.

I'm just like, okay, well, if God is expecting me to do A, then I'll probably just live my life doing A.

But if God's expecting B, so do you get my question here or where I'm going with that?

Okay.

It's a combination of both.

Can somebody live their life so heavily on A?

No, I don't I don't believe that.

You don't?

I don't believe that.

I think every time we see, even in the Bible, when people had we see like, hey Moses, there is a freaking sea in front of you.

God is going to open, but you need to walk.

Right.

Or you guys are thirsty, okay.

Water will come out of that rock, but first.

Or so we we always see this combination of God doing something, but I need to do my part.

I think something that I would love to have more time to touch on this past.

Sunday, I believe faith is a combination of God's power and my action.

So I think it's both in the same time.

Yes, I trust that God will reveal to me what I need to tell specifically, but I also need to do my part on what the author is trying to say here.

What's the context of the book?

What's the so I believe, at least for me, I don't know for everybody, but for me, it's always a combination of both.

God is doing his thing, I'm doing my thing.

If I'm trusting God to do everything, that's a silly faith.

Because I I have a part to play in this relationship, it's a freaking relationship.

I cannot expect my wife to do everything and we'll have a successful marriage.

I have a part to play.

But on the other side, if I am the one doing everything, God is like, hey, I would love to be part of this, and you are doing everything by yourself.

Do you need me here or not?

So it is definitely a combination of both.

Um it is definitely the radical dependence, for sure.

I depend on God to everything, but if I don't get up in the morning to do the things I need to do, nothing will happen in my life.

So it's it's both.

I depended on God to move here, and when I got here with$500 and a couple of bags, it was radical dependence.

But it was also me taking my car on a Sunday, going to church, meet people, meet community.

It was not God who decided me, who decided what church I would attend.

It was my decision.

But it was my decision based on prayer.

Hey God, I'm going to this church today, and if I I think it's a great one, what if I feel great there?

And I felt great, and then I decided, yes, I'm gonna do this.

So it's both.

I heard something once that I was like, oh my gosh, this is for my life.

Okay, and this is probably theologically wrong, great, but it's fine.

Someone said, I believe sometimes God opens doors, and it's great.

And I believe sometimes I'm going to open it for God, and God will be fine with that.

And I was like, Okay, I believe that.

You received that, I received that.

Sometimes God opened doors, sometimes I open it for God, and God would be like, if it is a good one, I'll bless it.

If it's not a good one, as a good pastor, I'm going to lead you out of it.

I believe that.

That's great.

Right?

Very helpful too.

Something similar I heard was um something like, I'm gonna trust God, like he's gonna do it, but I'm gonna work like it depends on me.

Something something along this way.

We love that, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Good stuff.

So, disclaimer, I don't know if this is gonna be the last episode or not.

Okay.

I'm kind of hoping that it's gonna because I'm waiting on my kid.

Oh, yeah.

By the way, if my child listens to this down the road, yes, Cliff was just a joke.

Yes.

Well, we don't know about that.

God can speak to him.

Exactly.

What what if he was born with such a cliff face that it you were like, okay, this is Cliff.

What if it's a girl?

I think Cliff could work for a done.

But we know it's a boy, so anyways, if we don't have another episode in this season of After the Message, we're kind of coming to the close of the series.

Uh we got a couple more weeks left, but it's been great.

I think we're gonna be doing another season after Easter of After the Message.

Yep.

But I could talk to you guys next week.

So regardless, hang around.

Yep.

And I hate when people say this, but subscribe to the podcast and you'll know.

For sure.

You'll know whether or not we're gonna have another episode.

But we love you guys, and uh, we'll talk to you next time.

See you.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at celebration or l or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.