After the Message | Parakletos | Week 4

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To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationLowerMill or visit our website at celebrationlowermell.org.

Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of After the Message.

Whether you are watching or listening, you are on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast, the Celebration Church Orlando YouTube channel.

And this is a segment we like to call After the Message.

Simply a conversation from our Sunday sermon and our series here at Celebration Church Orlando.

And we have the honor, the privilege.

What's another term that I could use that that we usually do on introductions like this?

You ask me?

Yeah.

I'm not the person.

We have the honor, the privilege, the blessing, the pleasure, the blessing of having Brother Vinny on.

Vinny, how are you, my friend?

Doing good.

How are you?

Doing well, man.

We are in a series that had a name change in the planning stages.

You're right.

And I believe you're responsible for that name change.

Am I not?

No.

No, not responsible for that name change.

You didn't come up with the name.

I think myself and Lindsay, yes.

We came up with the name, but not a change.

No, well, sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was more like we need a new name.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And um Paracletos, our series title, uh looking at the the Holy Spirit and uh as our helper, our comforter, our advocate.

Vinny, before we move any further, we've been doing something here that actually I've been doing with you every time you're on the podcast, and that's uh shout-outs.

And so we need to continue that tradition, obviously, with you and continue to the trend here on this season.

So would you please shout out someone in Portuguese?

I ask you out pra king.

And in English, I'm gonna shout out Jersey's Mike.

Jersey Mike's, yeah.

Jersey Mics.

Yeah, yeah.

I like their feeling.

When's the last time you had a Jersey Mike Philly?

Um two weeks ago, I guess.

Are you kind of craving that for today, maybe?

No, I'm not craving anything as far as eating.

I'm um yeah, I'm not eating.

Let's let's put that way.

Okay, all right.

Uh Vinny, we are in whatever week five, maybe of this series, week five of this series.

And uh so far, I kind of want to get your take on how the series has been for you.

Um, what are some maybe some highlights that you've had or some moments that uh you thought have been really good for our church and this teaching?

I think it's been great.

I think we are in this season of teaching spiritual disciplines.

I think that's our main goal for the year.

And week five of uh Paracletos, that's how I say it.

Um I think one of the highlights was week four.

Uh no, week three, week three, uh, when Pastor Keith unpacked this idea of um anointing and um this uh uh empowerment.

We we this empower empowerment we have to to share the gospel, to be free, to spread the good news.

So I like this idea of uh uh being powered by God.

I think every single message we we touch on that a little bit, and um I think it has been the the highlight of the series.

We're not alone, right?

And I think that's the main the main thing of Paracletus, right?

Is thinking all the apostles freaking out.

Think about then like living with Jesus, and now Jesus is dead.

What we're gonna do, and now Jesus is back to life, amazing, and now Jesus is saying goodbye.

So it's uh highs and lows in 40 days, a lot has happened.

But I I think something that I love about the text is Jesus saying, Yes, I'm going, but I'm going to send Paracletus, I'm going to send the the comforter.

You are you are not alone.

He's going to empower you to do the things I did, and even greater.

So I really like this idea, especially when we put ourselves in a in a or picture ourselves being one of the disciples of Jesus right there.

What are we gonna do without him, right?

Calm down, Paracletus is coming.

So I really like this idea.

Yeah, and the the term anointing um is introduced to us in the old testament.

What what is this anointing?

I know in modern era we don't really see or see or talk about it much, but what's the significance of an anointing?

I think we can we can see this through the lenses of something natural and through the lenses of something spiritual.

I think especially in the old testament, we see both of them coming together, but the natural aspect of that it's more like uh I don't want to use the word ritual, but I want to use the word um um a tradition, um, especially for new kings, um uh and it involves pretty much pouring oil on you to let you know and let everybody know it's a new season for you, uh, or you you are now in charge or some of something bigger.

Um so that's the that's the natural tradition uh anointing, and of course, with that we see in a spiritual um aspect as well.

I I think a great example of that is is uh 1 Samuel chapter 16, when we see uh Samuel going to David's house, right, uh to anoint the new new king of Israel.

1 Samuel 16 · chapter mention

And we know all the story, all the siblings there, and then no, it's not this one, not this one, and not this one, and then David showed up, and then the the prophet looks at him and goes, This is the man, and then he takes oil, he pours on him, and right there he is anointing David, naturally speaking, to be the new king uh of Israel.

What everybody couldn't see is on that gesture, there is also uh an spiritual empowerment.

Of course, David uh became uh king seven years later, but uh the anointing, the empowerment uh of God was upon him to to to uh uh to um uh be able uh to jump into this new season.

So when we talk about anointing, I always see this as a natural thing that of course we don't do that often in Mother's Day, we don't throw oil in people's head.

But when I talk about anointing today, we talk about anointing anointing today, I I try to see this with a spiritual meaning, which is empowerment for something new.

Is there any correlation to to baptism with that?

Are there any are there any similarities at all?

I don't think so.

I think baptisms is more a public declaration of faith.

Um anointing is more an empowerment of God for you to do something.

Um I think a a good example of that, um a modern example of that, I think it's Hill Song.

I think if we think about the amount of songs that they produced, wrote, recorded, and the amount of churches who sings at least one of Hugh Song's songs every single Sunday is just amazing.

I don't think this is a natural thing.

I think God anointed then for one specific season um to write songs that would bless the entire world.

Um so it is definitely spiritual, it is an empowerment, um of course, that will serve God's purpose.

So every believer has an anointing, basically, I believe so.

With what even to what Pastor Keith was talking about sharing the gospel to be free.

Um I I think that for me was the that was a little bit of a reminder and even sort of a light bulb for me.

Like I'm actually empowered to live a life of freedom.

I'm empowered to live a life that's totally broken away from my past, um as opposed to me trying to power through it on my own.

God is actually the one empowering me to do that through the spirit.

Yep, I believe that.

Uh so there are different expressions, there are different, obviously, takes and views and theological um bents, if you will, regarding the Holy Spirit.

I would be interested to hear your perspective on is there a a cultural difference?

Have you seen have you seen the Holy Spirit taught differently, or have you seen the Holy Spirit um pronounced or even um experienced differently in different settings and culturally speaking?

I think so.

I think there's um a theological difference and also uh a cultural one.

Yeah.

As far as cultural, I think that um South American countries, I think we desire the supernatural.

Um I think supernatural is a big component of our faith.

Um and I think that's there is a correlation with poverty, actually.

So we can dig deep on this, but I think that when you have nothing to eat or you don't have anything to wear, or you don't have anywhere else to go, you need the supernatural of God to operate in your life.

So I think because of the reality of the countries, um, looking for the supernatural, it's it's a basic component of our faith.

Um I think that's a the cultural difference.

Now, here in America, I'm not I'm not saying you guys don't like the supernatural, but we would never use the word awkwardness and supernatural in the same sentence, or we would make peace with the fact that supernatural will be awkward anyway, and we're fine with that.

Yeah, we have no problem with that because you're just wanting to eat, you're just wanting to be clothed, it doesn't matter how awkward it is, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Um, so um I remember when I was a kid, uh it's funny that it just came to my mind right now.

I came from a from a Pentecost Pentecostal church, and there was this lady that um in the middle of worship, she used to go to the hallway to dance in a very unique way.

And as a kid, I was like, what's happening?

A little bit afraid of that.

Yeah, and then one day I asked my mom, so what's happening?

Why she's doing that?

And then uh something that my mom said was like, Oh, yes, I understand that.

She said, We don't know the things that she faces every day, we don't know how lonely she is, we don't know how sad she is, we don't know the bad news she's facing every day.

So when she comes to the presence of the Lord, the Lord fills her with so much joy that the way that the only way she knows how to express that joy is dancing.

So when I understood that, I was like, yeah, that's nothing awkward about this.

She's just full of joy, she's dancing, as we see in the Bible lots and lots of times.

I think here in the US, if something like this happened, of course, it depends on the environment you are, everybody would be like, what's happening?

Um, I think it would be hard for us, so I'm gonna include myself in this culture, to stop for a second and think like this is completely normal, it's just just full of joy, right?

Um, so I think that's the cultural aspect of that.

Now, as far as theology, I think there's there's just a couple of uh differences in in our language.

I think we call things uh differently.

Okay, but the majority of the churches or the majority of the Pentecostal churches, we would believe that the Holy Spirit is for today, and the manifestations that we see uh in a Bible can still happen today, and the fruit of the Spirit is available, and the gifts of the Spirit is available.

So in the baptism with the Holy Spirit, uh we don't believe in a Professor Keith likes to put that way, and I love that we don't believe there is an expiration date on a work of the Holy Spirit He is available, so yeah.

Now, something that I see um there, I don't know much about here because celebration has been my only American church, right?

But something that I see there is the churches who prioritize the teaching a lot, they don't have much space or they don't make room for the Holy Spirit to operate in a supernatural way.

Uh, the way they think is the Holy Spirit will work through the word.

Got it.

And I I like that.

And then we see the other type of churches who have they open room for the Holy Spirit, and we see amazing stuff, but their teaching is really bad.

Um, so I kind of dream with the day we will be able to balance out a good teaching with great manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

What is what does that look like?

What what's what's holding what's holding us back from from that?

Or what do you think, what do you think is the what's the silver bullet there?

I think it's just the I think it's just a mentality, right?

I think we we tend to believe, and when I see when I say we, I think I don't know if if it's the same way here, but there we tend to believe that two things the two things are opposite.

Um so if you have a lot of knowledge, you kind of put the Holy Spirit in a box, and then you think that the only way he works is through the word.

And then it's when you have revelations that that's the Holy Spirit working.

Yeah, the other way is well, I want to see miracles, I want to see you know things that it's incredibly supernatural.

So let's make room for that and let's not prioritize the word because come on, we want to see this person walking again.

Yeah, um, so I think it's very easy to see both as opposites, and of course, of course, they're not.

Um, we see Jesus teaching the most incredible sermons ever, but we also see Jesus as stopping to multiply food.

So if he can do both, I think our churches can learn how to do it.

We can do greater, right?

Even greater, yes, that's what the Bible says.

Yeah.

You mentioned uh Pentecostal there a few times.

Do you know the history?

Like when did when did Pentecostalism, because we're talking about the original church, Catholic Church, and then the Orthodox Church.

When did this movement arise and why did it arise?

Well, the modern one, um, the modern one, I will definitely tell you that uh uh it started here in the US, um, the Azusa Street, famous one.

Yes, Pastor William Seymour.

Yeah, in um preaching one day uh in his very, very poor church.

He was baptized with the Holy Spirit right there.

While he was preaching.

While he was I don't know if you if it was while he was preaching, okay, but something started right there.

Um this movement of the Holy Spirit.

We see this happening um with the Jesus movement as well in the 70s and 80s here in uh in uh US.

We see the revival that happened in um with the Pon Yuk Sho church, thousands and thousands of people getting um uh saved.

Um, so we see revivals happening here and there, but I think what triggered the modern Pentecost uh movement in the world was uh Zouza Street when this guy just was just got baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Um, and I think this pretty much goes back to my previous point after Paul and after the church um uh uh I want to say all the all the important theologians of the world.

Um I think the church went to this season of study, study, study, study, study, study, study, study.

And then one day this guy was like, I think there is more than that.

Um not saying study is not important, but what if we go to the supernatural uh aspect of our faith?

So he did, and and he influenced the entire world.

Um so I can definitely tell that I am Pentecostal, and when I say I am Pentecostal, what I'm saying by that is I believe the Holy Spirit is alive today and he can move, he can move in a supernatural way.

That's what I believe by being a Pentecostal.

I believe that if you believe that if you're not if you never got baptized with the Holy Spirit, but if you believe that this is available today, I would consider yourself you a Pentecostal.

So Pentecostal for me, it's not what do you do, it's more like what do you believe, right?

Um, and of course, because you believe, there's a couple of expressions of faith that comes in in this package.

What are those?

Um, I think the majority of the Pentecostal church, they are very expressive in their faith.

Um I've had a chance to go to churches that they are not they're not Pentecostal, and it's great, usually great teaching, but it feels cold to me.

It feels like you cannot clap your hands, you cannot lift up your hands.

I'm not say they're wrong, I'm just saying that this is their expression of faith based on what they understand of Scripture.

Because I am Pentecostal, because I believe the Holy Spirit is alive in me today, I think my expression of faith is a little bit more vibrant?

Sure.

How even though I hate when people bring shofars to church.

Yeah, that's just my personal yeah, for sure.

Um is is there a point where it can get a little bit out of hand or too far?

And how do you re- recognize that I think I think something that it's very, very important for all of us to understand that is some aspects of our faith are to be expressed in community, and some you can do in your room.

Bro, you can do whatever for the glory of God inside your room while you're praying, but don't do that in a public setting.

Exactly.

Yeah, I think a good example of that is communion.

Communion is something that we do at church with community.

I never took communion by myself in my house.

Jesus, I'm here with the bread, and because it's it's an expression of my faith that makes sense in community.

Yeah.

Now, when I am alone in my room, I pray the most crazy stuff you could ever imagine.

I don't do that at church because that's it's Appropriate for me to do that when I am alone with God in my room.

Yeah.

So just think about this.

Is this something that will bless my community, or is this an expression of faith that it needs to be done when I am alone with God?

Of course, everybody will have a different answer for that.

Like Pastor Keith was saying the other day, I whistle a lot in the presence of God.

I think this is me expressing my faith, and then he said, I've never seen this before.

Yeah.

This is very common for my background.

So maybe you would be like Vinny.

I think you should whistle for God's glory in your room.

Don't do that in church.

But for me, this is part of this is part of the way I worship God in community.

You clap, someone lift up their hands, I whistle.

Um, maybe you don't like it, but it's not for you.

Yeah, uh, it's for him.

Yeah.

Um, so again, everybody will have a different opinion about that, but I think this is a good a good filter.

Okay.

What I'm doing right now, it's for my community and myself, or this is for me when I'm praying alone with God.

When you say you pray crazy stuff, what do you mean by that?

You pray crazy stuff.

I'm very open with God.

Got it.

I'm very open in the sense that I don't you don't hold anything back.

No, no, no.

No, yeah.

So, of course, I don't want people to hear that.

Of course.

Also, I call him in a very particular way when I'm praying by myself.

I don't use the same word when I'm praying in public because again, parts of my faith, it's for me and God, and parts of it is for everybody.

Yeah.

Um, does that make sense?

Yeah, it totally makes sense.

It totally makes sense.

Um, kind of switching gears a little bit.

Uh, I talked to Pastor Keith about this, um, but coming up here, you know, at celebration, we have a uh a worship Sunday uh pen on the day of Pentecost, the celebration of of the gift of the of the Holy Spirit.

What's kind of what are you looking forward to on that day?

What are what are some things that you would love to see God God do for us?

Uh I'm kind of building my own anticipation, but just out of curiosity, I want to hear from you on that.

I think more than anything, I would love, and this will be a strong sentence, but I would love God to feel He has freedom to do whatever He wants to do.

Okay, so I'm not expecting healings or the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I'm I'm expecting God to feel like oh I love this environment.

So let me do a couple of things I want I want to do.

So I think one step before the supernatural, I just want God to feel like they made space for me.

They are not following the planning center, they are following my voice, um, they're not locked into uh a certain way of doing things, they have expectation for what I have in store for the day.

So I think that's my expectation.

I would love God to look at us and see, oh my gosh, yes.

Let me give a taste of heaven.

That's my expectation.

Is this uh in reference to you know the scriptures talk about not stifling the spirit?

Is that is that similar to what you're talking about, or what what particularly in that context would the scriptures be referring to?

Like don't hold don't hold the Holy Spirit back, basically.

Sure.

Yeah.

Sure.

I think that's uh that's a great reference.

And we have a couple of verses in Bible that that says don't blah blah blah blah blah the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

That would be a very, very nice um, it would be very nice if we had time to to unpack that.

But we don't.

Maybe right now in a Sunday, maybe what about right now?

Um let's hold for it for for when we maybe next year when we do our Holy Spirit.

We'll be ready for it.

I think so.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

Um because I think this is important, right?

When when the Bible says don't sure blank the Holy Spirit, come on.

Yeah, kind of a big deal.

Serious, yeah, for sure.

What is what's some extra biblical literature, some good stuff that you've read maybe that have helped you along the way?

I know that you've uh have provided me with list of books and stuff, but anything maybe for someone listening or watching who they want they're hungry, they want to know more, they want to learn more, and some resources or authors that could help them.

Um everything you could read from T L Osborne, I think it would be would be a blessing.

Um and this is very controversial, but I'll just say it.

Um so I'm uh I'm trying to separate the author from the from the art, let's put that way.

But I think Good Morning, Holy Spirit, it's a great, great, great book that blessed me a lot.

Um the first time I read that, uh 17 years ago.

Uh so I I think that's a if you never if you never had a chance to to read that Good Morning Holy Spirit, I think that's book number one when we talk about Holy Spirit.

And then the next one I would suggest The Cure by the same author.

And then the third one, uh any type any book from TL Osborne, I think it would be a good one.

What did what did Good Morning Holy Spirit what did it do for you?

How did it encourage your walk?

Like how did it change your perspective?

I think it I think it was the first time I had the revelation, the Rema revelation that he is available, that the paracletus is with me.

Um God is here because of his attributes, Jesus is here because of his attributes, but the Holy Spirit is here because of his presence.

Jesus went away and said, Now you stay with this.

So it was the first time I was like, Bro, he's available.

I should take advantage of this, you know.

Um so yeah, I think I've uh I read uh Good Morning Holy Spirit more than 15 times.

Really?

More than 15 for sure.

Because it was very impactful.

It was the first time I had this understanding.

I'm not alone, you know.

Even though sometimes I feel like that, I know the Bible promised me I have a comforter.

Uh yeah, today is not an easy day for me.

But talking about this is just a reminder.

I have a comforter.

What is your we all do?

We all do, of course.

And I'd I'd be curious to know what your do you have daily rhythms?

Does it change your interaction with the Holy Spirit?

How how do you how do you express that?

Ask me more about about this.

What do you mean?

Rephrase it.

That's what that is.

Um do you have certain non-negotiables for your day when it comes to interacting with the Holy Spirit?

My non-negotiables is I always invite the Holy Spirit to guide me when I am reading the Bible.

I think this is very, very, very, very, very important.

Um and uh especially when we talk about the word heresy.

Um and this is always very interesting to me when we say, Oh, this is a heresy.

And then I think my second question would be according to who?

Because I'm reading my Bible, you are reading your Bible, but the way you see what you're reading is completely different than the than the way I see what I am reading, and this is because of hundreds of factors.

So something that I always ask the Holy Spirit, it is it is uh non-negotiable to me, is every time I open my Bible, is I would love to have a revelate, a revelation from you.

I don't want my culture to to influence me or my experiences, my traumas.

I just want a fresh revelation from you.

Um, one thing that it's a disclaimer that it's important.

I don't think we can ignore our culture, our beliefs, our everything we have lived with God so far.

I think what I'm saying is above everything, I would love to have the Holy Spirit uh teaching me what he wants to teach.

Um that's that's uh I think that's my only one like practice or discipline of faith as far as the Holy Spirit that I do every like consistent.

Now, of course, I ask the Holy Spirit to strengthen me uh very often.

I ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom very often.

I ask for lots of things.

I I ask for for the manifestations of the gifts often, but it's not like uh it's not a routine, right?

It's more like when I feel I have to pray for that.

Yeah, uh Paul in First Corinthi Corinthians uh chapter 12, he says that ask, seek for things like this.

So every time I I am reminded of that, probably reminded by the Holy Spirit, I pray for it.

Hey dude, uh, I need you to uh to seek me.

Not yourself, not anything else.

Yeah, um man, any anything else you you would love to touch on or share or encourage those those watching or listening right now when when it comes to this relationship with the Holy Spirit, this idea of the Paracletos?

I think the only thing I I I wanted to say is I think this idea of God is so natural for us.

Really, so common to us.

I think we have God involved, especially in the American culture, in everything.

Oh my gosh, or you know, God help me, or thank God, or um so when we think about God, I think it's more familiar to us.

Same with Jesus, you know, Easter and Christmas, and we sing songs about it, and everybody knows.

So I think we are very familiarized with God, very familiarized with Jesus, and sometimes we forget that there is a third part of this, and it is the Holy Spirit.

So I think my prayer is I want to be familiarized with the idea of the Holy Spirit as I am with the idea of God and Jesus.

Um, so there is no I don't have anything that holds me when I think about God.

I just want to go.

Same with Jesus, same with the Holy Spirit, no awkward, no, oh, this is for the past or for for the future.

No theology, no theology, let's put that way.

If we believe God is three, and we see this in Genesis chapter one, we see this is this in 1 John, we see this in Matthew chapter 4, we see this throughout the Bible that God is three.

Matthew 4 · chapter mention

If he is three, I don't want to reject the Holy Spirit, I want to be very familiarized with him.

And then theology we talk about that later.

Yeah, does that make sense?

That's just for fun.

Yes, for sure, that's just a hobby.

The forgotten God, as Francis Chan would say, the Holy Spirit being which is a great, great, great, great, great book.

Thank thank you for for mentioning that.

And and I think what Francis says that is, unless I'm wrong, and if I am wrong, forgive me.

But I think what Francis says that there in that book is if he was the devil, what he would try to do is make all believers forget that the Holy Spirit is something real and available.

Yeah, of course, because he's the one who empowers, he is the one who manifests, he is the one who you know is there with us, helping us every day.

So if you don't have that, you lose a great aspect of your faith.

Yeah, so I want us to be more and more familiarized with this idea that God who is three, the God who made everything, and that Jesus who died on the cross is also the Holy Spirit who is here and available today.

Yeah, because if you don't have the power, you're not a threat to to the power to the dark powers of us.

Yeah, of course.

Brother, thank you so much for for coming on, spending some time with us today.

I know everyone listening and watching is appreciative of your insight.

Thank you, thank you, brother.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm always here.

I work in the room right next.

Right there.

Yeah, right there.

Okay.

We'll we'll hit record tomorrow and see what else happens too.

Thank you so much.

Make sure you guys uh I don't know if this is our last episode or not.

Maybe, maybe not.

Um, but uh make sure you guys stay uh tuned into what we got going on here at Celebration Church Orlando.

And if you are in the area, we'd love to have you come worship with us, especially Pentecost Sunday, for sure, May 28th, worship Sunday.

Come opened.

Come come ready.

Yeah, come ready to see what God has to do.

We'll talk to you guys later.

Thank you for joining us for After the Message.

To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.