After the Message | Reclaim | Week 2

Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

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Jakari's voice just sounds so sweet on that new intro.

It's it seems right.

Yeah, so we're so thankful for Jakari for recording that.

Shout out to Jakari.

Making us sound legit.

Yeah, we sound like we're a real church.

Yeah.

And if you're listening to this podcast and you heard that great intro, this is the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

And this is a segment we like to call After the Message.

I feel like I want to start like getting in sync when we say that so we can say it together.

Okay.

This is a segment we like to call After the Message.

That sounds right.

That sounds right.

I love it.

Um After the Message is simply a conversation from the previous Sunday sermon here at Celebration Church.

And we just hope that it encourages you to do the same.

So whether you're listening or watching, have a conversation about the previous sermon at our church, and we'll feel good that we're accomplishing what we set out to do.

That was the goal.

Yeah, for sure.

Pastor Keith, how are you, my friend?

I am well.

It is well with my soul.

Good.

Yes.

How about you?

Same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm good.

Yeah, I mean, at the time of this recording, it's playoff times for NBA.

Um, so it's I feel a little bit conflicted because I'm not as like die hard with a singular team as I am with like football.

Yeah.

Um, but I do like to see Philadelphia teams do well in general.

Um, but then at after that I'm just kind of open to good basketball, but I have players.

But wherever I live, which obviously Orlando is home, I would love to see the Magic do really well.

Like it's good for the city.

I know people that work there, going to games, love it.

So right now I want to see the magic do well.

So when I look at the fact that the Magic are down, um the Sixers are down, and the Lakers are down, and again, like for me, it's you know, Lakers are iconic.

I'm a fan of LeBron.

I love just watching Legacy in front of me.

So right now, everything that I'm interested in is losing.

Um, so I'm just looking at Jesus right now because the NBA just not looking good.

Amen.

Before before we move on into maybe a little bit of the deeper combo, LeBron or MJ?

Oh, that's a great question.

I feel like it's um I'll give the political answer.

I think it's a little unfair to compare to the time in DC, didn't he?

I did, I did.

I feel like it's it's my pal my political side, it's like, hey man, like, let's find a healthy middle ground.

At least that's how you would hope it would work.

But um, so for me, I I see pros and cons with both.

And as a fan of the game, um I think that they both have contributed significantly.

So I was raised in the I guess if I would think of my formative years, I was raised in the Jordan era, raised my first son in the Kobe era, and then my youngest son in the in the LeBron era.

So I don't know either none of these guys.

Like, they don't owe me anything.

So for me, it's like I just have enjoyed it all.

I think watching Jordan play because of the mystique, you didn't have social media, like that still is burned in my psyche in a sense of just like the oh my gosh, like this guy moves and it's just like it's just different.

LeBron, I think, because it's a different play style and it's so in front of our faces that I think you don't watch the highlights like you did with Jordan.

Like Jordan, you couldn't watch all the games, so all you saw was some of the highlights, and it was just unbelievable.

You didn't, they never showed when Jordan missed a shot.

But in this era, you see everything, so it kind of strips away the mystique of it.

So from iconic status, I don't think you'll ever get beyond um Michael Jordan.

It's just he's iconic.

But I do think from a longevity and just navigating in today's culture, it's hard to argue against LeBron.

So my political answer is why do we have to choose?

But I also would say that my second question or my follow-up would be, what's the metric?

Because if it's championships, then there's other variables.

If it's longevity, there's variables.

So at this point, I think it's all like so many other things, it comes down to preference.

And my preference is I don't have to choose.

I love them both uniquely.

Keith Pittman running for senator.

Hey man, just give me the vote.

I'll get this country in order.

Speaking of that.

In a in a series called Reclaim, yeah, that was uh you know heavily influenced by the year 2024, maybe, uh, as we spoke about last week on the podcast, uh a book you're reading, and just kind of your passion in general for making sure that we're keeping our eyes on the main thing, which is Jesus, right?

And not necessarily political lines or preferences uh regardless of denomination, etc.

etcetera.

However, if anybody was paying attention and if you or if you weren't or didn't get a chance to, I'd first of all encourage you to go back and either watch the message on our YouTube channel or listen on this here podcast.

And ch uh things changed a little bit.

Yes.

Things changed a little bit in the message.

I I still think that there's a loose tie-in somewhere, and we can make it work, right?

Oh, always.

There's always a loose tie-in.

If Jesus is involved, we can we can connect those dots.

So talk about the change a little, talk about the maybe was it a moment, maybe was it a a series of moments, or and you you touched on it a little bit on Sunday, but this platform or this opportunity gives us more time to be able to expand on that.

So yeah.

Well, I think you know, one of the things that I saw such a huge benefit and value in a couple of years ago, I think it may have been 2022, if I'm not mistaken.

Um, but we've always done our best to try to chart out what it is that God wants us to do, what is it that He wants us to speak to our church, not just in a sense of a single message and even beyond a series, but it's almost like thematically for the year.

Now, some of that may be a little bit of me bleeding my personality into things.

So I again I think God uses who we are and how we are and speaks through that.

So I'm a person that coming from the education system prior to being in ministry, the the principle was a student walks into a classroom knowing this, and by the end of the year, they know that, and that's the goal.

And I realized that that when we're being disciples, it's not necessarily a linear thing like that, but I did feel a conviction a couple years ago of like, man, I would love to be able to look back and say, over the course of the past three years, here's what we were teaching our church.

Now, different people will grab different aspects of it and we'll reiterate the same things, but that's kind of what started all this, like what's our theme, so to speak, for a year, not trying to force anything.

So um, so for me, I think when we came back and we began to kind of chart out like series long term, I feel like it not only helped us as a staff to know where we're going, it helped me to know how to study, all those things, and and it's beautiful.

I think God dwells in our planning.

So we did that, I think, towards the end of 2022 for the rest of the year, and then all of 2023 was just that like, hey, we want to focus on spiritual disciplines, let's lay out what that looks like practically.

Every series was leading us in a direction of that.

Um so I think that's all beautiful, and then same thing for for this year.

So I think the shift for me this year, and I know that even going into this year when we had different staff meetings, I was like, there are moments when I felt like there was something else that I needed to address, but we were locked into a series.

And it's not that you can't do it, and there's some things I may say in a passing statement, there's some things that I may say that might be a point, a reference, a sub point, but there's some moments where I felt like, man, like I felt like our church needed this, but we had so much momentum around a specific series or topic or a thought that I didn't know the way to do it.

So I thought sometimes I'm like, well, maybe we'll do an equipment on the subject, or or maybe we'll talk about it on the podcast, trying to find a way to still express these things.

Um and I think that's all healthy.

Um, but for this week specifically, I think for me, it's probably been a buildup over the past month where as I was looking at what was going on in our church in the sense of, you know, we get our prayer requests, we're in relationships with people, and you're seeing like the struggles that people are going through, and you see the pain points and all of these things.

Um, and you have this beautiful series which is near and dear to my heart, and it's not that the series doesn't hit on it, but it's more so like, man, like how how do I address a season of people going through deep storms while I'm in what I would call a series that is meant to engage our mind.

Um, not that any of our series don't, but like that's really meant to just kind of like intellectually challenge us, spiritually challenge us, and really kind of lead us in a place to be a little bit more reflective.

But I also recognize that in our community right now, there's people who are dealing with loss at varying scales, loss of life, loss of jobs, loss of vision.

Like, and so it just so happened that when we're looking at the week that I was planning and preparing and writing my sermon for for this week, um, kind of like I mentioned in the intro, like we had a time of prayer.

In fact, the past two weeks of our Thursday prayers, there was like a culmination of these things, and I felt like, okay, I feel like there's a a shift.

And I and I remember when I insinuated that those moments may come in one of our staff meetings months ago.

And I think it was you that said to me, like, yeah, like if we feel those moments, then if there needs to be a change, then do it.

And it's not so much that I needed that permission, but I think the challenge that I feel, again, this is behind the scenes, the challenge that I feel is that I know how hard we work as a staff and how what continuity looks like because we feel like that's a great way to reinforce what we're doing, and it helps our church to know what to expect and to grow and all those things.

And so when I'm aware of all those things, the challenge for me can sometimes be to be aware of the sacrifice, the hard work that goes into supporting the direction that I'm hopefully trying to lead us into, but also being sensitive to but hey, we need to shift.

So I'm trying to honor both, and um, but I just felt like I couldn't, I couldn't shake it, especially after our Thursday prayer, and then over the weekend, and I was just processing through it.

And I think um it may have been either Friday night or Saturday is when I reached out to to Vinny and Lindsay's like, hey, it may look different.

I'm just gonna send you a passage of scripture that I may go to and we'll just see what happens.

So that's my very long answer to your short question of that's kind of the the mechanisms that that kind of led to where we are.

Yeah, and you mentioned yesterday kind of defining this as a a Rhema word.

Yeah.

And maybe there are other traditions who don't have the the theological groupings of this type of word, this type of word, this type of word.

So what are those?

Is it defined in a certain categories?

And how do you know when you're having a Rhema word, when this is a this this is like okay, this is a thing that God's trying to reveal to me personally.

How do you personally discern that?

Well, first of all, let's talk about the defining moment.

Like what are the definitions of those types of words, and then discerning that if it's for the community or yeah, that's a great question.

Um, so I didn't know you were gonna ask it.

So no, I love it.

I love it.

So I'm so I may not have all the references ready to spill, but but I can I can back, I can show my work later.

Okay.

Um basically I know that there's several categories.

It's almost like if you look at the word love, there's like I think four different renderings um in scripture, and they each have different emotions and meanings attached to them.

Well, it's the same concept when it comes to God's word.

And so more specifically, um, when we say the word logos or lagos, depending on which part of the country you're from or world, um, but ultimately that insinuates the the essence of the mind and the heart of God.

It's considered to be like the embodiment of God's collective emotions that are that are encapsulated in words.

So that's like the mind and will of God.

So when you say in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God, it's talking about this logos, the thought of God, the mind of God.

So you have that.

Then you have these other moments where it speaks about um Rhema, and whenever that word rhema is there, it's rendered as word, but it's actually defined as spoken word, like when the word is actually literally spoken out loud.

So what they would often say is that for if we look at it from an old testament framework, you have the the logos, the written word of God, where they would pour over the Torah and they're reading it and they're examining what the word of God has said that encapsulates the mind and will of God, and then you would have a prophet that would show up and he would deliver a spoken word to the people that still is in concert with the written word.

It's not in contradiction, but he's speaking a word that's meant for us right now.

It's like a very unique word.

So if you look at um when when Nathan the prophet confronts um David about Bathsheba, um David knows what the written word says, but he needed to be confronted with the spoken word of God that's still supported by the written word, but it was a right now word.

It wasn't like a theoretical thing.

It's like, hey, let me tell you why you're wrong in the moment and how it lines up with the written word of God.

And so that's kind of the distinction.

So when you have people that that read the word of God, they're reading the logos to mind the will of God.

But a lot of times when someone declares a word, or sometimes in the New Testament context, it's a prophetic word or a word that has been discerned.

That's when you're able to recognize the the needs of the people, the circumstances going on, and kind of like this unction.

So what scripture would say in the New Testament is like when the Holy Spirit gave them utterance, like that that that gut feeling, like, hey, I need to say this instead of that.

That's like the right now.

This is something that you need to hear right now.

So we can examine this through the centuries old of different traditions and interpret it, but I feel like there's something I need to say to you right now.

And now we measure it by the written word, right, but it's still responding to that unction.

Yeah, for sure.

The um the the the Rhema word or the word that you had, I guess, yesterday for our church was uh built off this premise of following Jesus through a storm.

And for whatever reason, it becomes um it's almost as if we expect or it comes with a package, uh a smooth ride once we decide to follow Jesus.

And if you if you've read the New Testament at any level, you can see for most people their lives may have actually become a little bit more disruptive or uncomfortable or even faced death because they said, you know, you know what, actually this is worth living for this being following Jesus.

What what prompts us or what is there maybe floating around that that gives us this inkling that okay, my life's good now, things should work out, things fit in neat compartments now that I follow Jesus.

Why is that a battle for us?

I think it's um I think it's because of the way that our faith has evolved and been packaged.

Because when when people are, and and again, this has gone through like centuries of how do we how do we communicate why you need Jesus?

Back in the Middle Eastern culture, it was never framed around your circumstances.

It was more so like, man, you need to have fellowship with your creator, and he wants to have fellowship with you, and you're invited into this.

And so the outcome that was secondary.

It was just being intimate with your creator, and that was it.

I don't want to like, I think sometimes we can be a little um harsh on the church of the West, and and I'm I'm critical of it, but but I live here and I understand I'm a product of it, as so many of us are, and it's our reality.

But I will say, I don't know if we originated it, but I do know that as we started having these revival moments in ways that we want to have like mass decisions for Christ, and that can go back to colonization or whatever, but but when we were trying to have like these mass conversions, it became like, hey, how can we simplify the gospel in a way that a person can perceive this as being beneficial to them right now?

And so I think just through the evolution of getting into the the masses of lifting a hand, I see that hand, let's raise a hand, okay, now you're saved.

Um, I think that it was all built off this premise of right now your life is terrible, but when you get with Jesus, he makes all things new.

And I think we turned that into such a literal um transition that we don't recognize that it's a sanctification process that is meant to start with our minds, our wills, our souls, our eternal destination, living a life of purpose and meaning, but we've ultimately turned it into what I like to believe is like Ted talks with Jesus.

Like, I know your life is terrible right now, but if I can get you into this thing called salvation, man, it's gonna be so much smoother.

Your life is gonna be nothing but abundance and peace.

And so I think we did that because folks were thinking to themselves, if I'm already struggling, why do I need Jesus?

If I'm already going through disappointment, why do I need Jesus?

So I think in a response to that, there was not a watering down of the gospel.

I think that a lot of those early church revival moments that we've seen in the West, they still would talk about hell probably even more than we do now and condemnation in a sense of eternal judgment.

But I think it was always hinged upon a feelings, a feelings-based faith that will make you feel better, things will get better, um, and that would be the byproduct of it.

But like you said, any person that examines scripture rarely sees that that's it.

It doesn't mean that we can't pursue it and it's not available.

But when you set that up as the primary filter, I think that's what kind of formed us and having an expectation that this is a transaction.

I say yes to you, Jesus, and you're going to give me all this stuff.

And I think that's what kind of has diluted our sense of how do we suffer well, because we were under the impression that Jesus suffered on the cross for us, so that means it will never endure any suffering.

So how do we I guess what is your personal refinement of that message?

Or how do you how are you evolving in that sense?

Because we're we're all on this journey together, right?

We're all trying to figure out especially people who have said, uh, yeah, ministry is what I want to do.

Yeah.

We're we have time thinking through what's the best way to reach, or what's the best way to communicate, or what's the what's the best way to um exhort people or try to get people to see a reality, right?

So um kind of where are you right now uh in exhibiting that message to to people.

Yeah.

I think um I firmly believe that that two things can be true at the same time.

Okay.

So I do believe that there absolutely is a a harvest for our decision to follow Christ.

Um so again, it's kind of the season, you know, rooted in rising.

I do believe that every decision is a seed that produces um a fruit.

So I remember just reading varying pieces of literature, so I'll I'll sum them all up with this principle.

I've seen people say, hey, what happens if you live this entire life as a Christian and at the end there's nothing after it?

Like, what what happens then?

And I I remember just watching different apologists in their own way come to the conclusion of if I live my entire life like a Christian and let's say that there's nothing after this, then I would have lived a life being kind to my neighbor, I would have lived a life being good to my family, I would have lived a life being kind and generous and hopefully making a difference, and I can live and slash die with that.

It just changes the way that you live your life when you know that you're living for something beyond yourself.

So I think the fruit from that in and of itself is beautiful and it does create a ripple effect.

So I think for me, when we're talking about, okay, is there a natural consequence or benefit of being a person who is devoted to Christ?

Yes.

And I think we need to talk about that.

Yes, like if we can live lives that were rooted in Christ and it's producing the fruit of the spirit in our lives, that's a beautiful thing.

And so there's gonna be moments when we can talk about that and we can preach about that, we can encourage one another.

Like, hey, if you if you make different choices, you'll get different results.

That's beautiful.

But I also feel like it's important to rightly divide the word of truth and making sure that we don't look at it like a transaction.

I do this, God's gonna do this.

I do my part, he's gonna do his part in a sense of like some prosperity gospel in a super unhealthy way.

So to me, it's making sure that that the motivation is mainly to be in fellowship with God.

And as as a person who's in fellowship with God, here's some of the benefits that come from it.

Um as a man who's been married now and Been with my wife for almost 30 years.

Like, I invest in this relationship.

I spend time with her.

There's there's there's ebbs and flows of it.

But I would never say that I'm like, hey, I'm committed to my wife because I'm looking for this transaction.

Like the commitment is so much deeper than that at this point.

I believe that that's what our walk with God should look like.

So, yes, are there benefits?

Are there perks?

Absolutely.

But it's so much beyond that that you realize that we're gonna suffer together, we're gonna celebrate together, but we're in a meaningful relationship where all of those things can coexist.

I think that's the healthy way, which is why I believe that marriage and relationship is like one of the frameworks that the church is kind of defined through to give us an understanding that, hey, like you're gonna have high moments, you're gonna have low moments, you're gonna have disappointments, you're gonna have suffering, you're gonna have the death of loved ones, but let's figure it out together instead of my relationship with my wife takes away all my problems.

That's just not realistic.

So I think Paul and others use marriage as that frame of reference to help us to get a sense of this is what a relationship with God looks like, at least in a scale that we can understand it.

Yeah, sacrificial love for sure.

So I I'm aware of the fact that there may be people listening who do have an uh an interest in ministry, maybe even people who sit in our seats and they hear us uh talking a little bit about maybe some thought processes we have on how to share the gospel or how to minister or encourage people.

Uh in in your sermon yesterday, you spoke about your entry point into ministry a little bit, and you gave you gave a story of a conversation with a friend, and that conversation took you off guard a little bit.

And you know, without again, without throwing shade on the entire um the entire world who claims to be a Christian, what was that like for you?

You mentioned it a little bit, but can you see now what he was referring to?

And can you see a way to healthily walk through that without becoming cynical or jaded?

And maybe I'm asking this for myself too.

So um, but for those people who are like, okay, well, that seems I thought you get into ministry and you listen to worship music and you pray and you're close to God and everybody loves each other, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

So maybe help prepare some people for that next step if they are interested.

Man, I think you know, it's funny that you're asking me this, and and I would have never guessed.

Uh man, I'm coming up on my fifth anniversary of being a lead pastor here.

Gosh, man, it might be this week.

It might be this week.

Um, but I think it is.

I remember I remember when um when I was in DC and I was transitioning here, and um I started meeting with different staff members.

Many I knew, many I didn't.

And so I remember sitting with um one person in particular, and as I was sitting with them, and I and the question that I posed to everyone I had a chance to meet with, because you go, I was coming in on the weekends, flying in on Friday or Saturday rather, doing Sunday, then flying back to DC so Caleb could finish school.

So I didn't have a lot of time, so I know I didn't hit everybody, but I remember when I did sit with people, I would ask the question, hey, um, what do I not know and what would you do if you were me?

Just so I can get a sense of everyone's like their perception of how things were going.

Um, and of course, it's gonna it was different opinions for every single thing you can imagine.

Um, but I remember one time sitting with someone and them saying, like, they were talking about you specifically, and they were talking about how um at the time you were fairly new to being on staff and how you had such a a purity, like such a such a to you very black and white, like we're here to serve, we're here to sacrifice this purity.

And they were like, no, so if I was you, I would try to find a way to protect Nate's purity.

And I remember laughing about that because it made me think about the conversation that I had back then.

Um I do believe that um when that pastor shared with me like the reality of what's happens in ministry, it's a revelation that I have come to realize has been in scripture its entire time.

But it's it, I think the way that we view church, particularly if you feel called to ministry, um, is the same way that we have viewed our relationship with God in the sense of I say yes to God, everything's gonna be easy, there's no conflict.

Well, if I say yes to ministry, then I'm in God's will and there's no conflict.

But I think what what I saw probably about 10 years ago, um, even in the Old Testament up into the New Testament, I realized that when you go into the the most holy place in the tabernacle, anybody that knows me, I'm I'm obsessed with the narrative of the children of Israel going through the from Egypt to the wilderness to the promised land.

Like, I don't even want to take this down that rabbit hole.

But it's it it's so meaningful for me because it reflects so much about the journey of the believer and leadership development and what it looks like to walk out and trust God and you don't know where you're going and you feel like you're stuck in a like I can go on for days about it.

But the tabernacle specifically, they had these different chambers where different measures of honoring and worshiping God took place, which again have their own deep meaning.

But when you got unto the most holy place, the most sacred place that was often considered to be the literal throne room of God on earth, the overlap, the place where man can have unfiltered fellowship with God.

And so that was only reserved, one for the high priest.

Um, and then two, when you look at the procedures that took place in order to get there, one, it only happened once a year on Day of Atonement, and then two, the high priest would go into there, he had to make sure that his self was in order, and then he would go and sprinkle blood onto what they call the mercy seat.

And that was just basically the blood going before you so that way you didn't have to fear judgment.

So again, Hebrews talks about this, Jesus fulfills all these things, it's beautiful.

But one of the things I never considered is when the description of the most holy place is provided, it's always very beautiful.

It's like these gold angels are carved together inside of the box.

It's it's it's the it's the law, it's the Aaron's rod that budded.

There's these beautiful things that are like, oh my gosh, it's so sacred.

And then one day I looked and realized like, but the thing is covered with blood.

So like people are coming in there and they're sprinkling blood on this thing, and there's no cleanup procedure.

So I'm beginning to recognize that when you get on the other veil into the most holy place, it's sacred, but bro, it's messy.

That there were like that it was unadulterated, messy because blood is there and sacrifice is there.

So I began to look at ministry a lot less like we come, we say yes, we have meetings where we pray and we fast, and that's it.

And I've begun to look at it more like working at a high-end kitchen where or a high-end restaurant, and you're in the kitchen, and when like people come into the restaurant, it is nice, it is laid out, you got everybody playing their part.

But when you get into the kitchen, it is messy, plates are breaking, people are arguing, the dishes aren't clean.

How come you haven't picked this plate up?

There's a lot of mess that's going on behind the scenes.

It doesn't change the value of the meal, but it just shows you the intensity that can sometimes take place.

So it took me a while to recognize that one, um, it's messy.

And wherever there's people, it's going to be messy.

We're all working towards the same thing, but it doesn't always mean we have the same temperament and personalities.

So, what I think he was trying to prepare me for in his own way is man, you've been sitting on this side of the restaurant, and now you're being invited to come into the kitchen.

And I want you to be prepared that the way that the kitchen staff operates, it may not look like the same way that a patron that's going to be sitting at the uh the best seat in the house.

Like you're choosing to now work here as opposed to just um eat here.

And it looks a little different.

It doesn't mean that the food is not good, it doesn't mean that our standards are not the highest, but you have to understand it's a high-intense environment.

So that's my long way of saying for a person that it's a big difference from receiving to being a person who's now serving, and it's still equally valuable and it's still so meaningful, and to be able to watch people's lives literally change in front of you, I think it's there's nothing more honorable in my opinion than being where God has called you to be and to watch people grow into what God's calling them to be and to do.

Um, but let's not be mistaken, that just because we all love Jesus doesn't mean that we always will have there'll be the absence of conflict.

And and lastly, I'll say, even when you look into the birth of the early church, the thing that I love about the Bible um in its entirety is that of all of the different religions out there and all of the different religious writings that are out there, the Bible, and I'm gonna say only, but give me grace, the only book that I'm aware of where the flaws of the people are put on display.

Most sacred writings, they kind of elevate whoever they identify as the person, and there's no mention of the flaws, at least not in the sense of like things that we would probably look at now through our modern eyes, be like, that's terrible.

But the Bible doesn't hide David's sin, it doesn't hide Moses' anger, it doesn't hide Paul being upset with John Mark and Paul not being a perfect person, it doesn't hide that Peter was a people pleaser who had AD, like who had ADD and was a little bit skittish around Gentiles when Jews were around.

It doesn't hide any of that.

So it shows you that these are people who were listed in Scripture, that God did incredible things, but man, they had anxiety, they had depression, they had fear, they had all of these things, and yet God still used them.

I think that's a beautiful message.

It doesn't mean that we justify not progressing, but it helps us to understand that perfection was never the requisite to be used by God.

It reminds me of someone I heard say, you know, the Bible treats you like an adult.

You know, it it it lets you it says that you can handle it, you know, and obviously as we mature and grow, we we can handle a a little bit more, but there as you were as you were talking about that, it just reminded me of um the passage that you talked about yesterday and the one that you read on Thursday to us about the storm and even the f even the reaction uh of the disciples, you know, their doubt and all that, which I can totally relate to.

I guess my question is how do we a lot of times when there are uh moments in scripture that aren't necessarily cut and paste for our reality, um a sailing in a fishing boat that Jesus told me to go in, you know, and then seeing him walk on water.

What what we try to do the best that we can is apply that to our life, um, which I think you did a great job at applying the principles of that passage, and I think we talked a little bit about this last week in a in our first episode of this new season.

But I guess what's the line between taking a passage of scripture, wanting to apply it to our lives, but not imposing you know, I think of David and Goliath, who's the giant in your life?

Like that was a historical account of something that really happened, right?

And so how do we again maybe this is just for me, maybe this is for people listening ministry, or who are just curious overall in their in their own personal devotion, how do they read a passage of scripture and what we're taught is what did you get out of this, as opposed to well, what's the author saying and do that in a constructive and a a correct as correct as possible manner.

I think what I think um Jesus is always the the model for me um and a sense of how he navigates through moments like this.

So what we see with Jesus, because I've seen people when it comes to interpreting the Bible, um, you have people who have like an inductive style of biblical interpretation where it's like okay, like an or or an expository where I'm looking at the pass, the passage on its own, on its own terms.

I'm asking these deep questions, who is the original author, who's the audience, what was the situation?

I'm extracting that and I'm pulling out a truth from that um on its own.

And so you kind of have that.

Um, then you have other methods of study that that that does that, but then also um that are more narrative driven.

So that means that they're looking at a narrative, such as uh David and Goliath, and they're extracting principles from that narrative, and then they're pulling it out and saying, okay, how does this apply to me?

And that's where you get into the who's the Goliath in your life and all that stuff.

So Paul tells Timothy that all scripture is God-breed and it's profitable for for learning, for correction, for teaching, for rebuking.

So he gives a list of like, so all of this is meaningful and useful for us.

So, how do we do this in a healthy way?

I think what it comes down to is looking to Jesus.

So, one of my one of the things that I believe is that Jesus is perfect theology, that he is the one who takes the logos of God, but also the remaining of God, and he beautifully puts it on display for us to model.

So, when I look at the life of Jesus, what helped me was I began to, I think I had a Bible many times or many years ago that um that referenced how many times Jesus quoted from the Old Testament.

And so what I began to recognize is how did Jesus use these stories of the past to make a to make a point in the present.

And one of the ones that comes off the top of my head, there's literally tons of them, you'd be amazed at how often Jesus quoted from the Old Testament.

Um, but there's one specifically when there's a discussion about the Sabbath, and so Jesus references the story of when David was on a run and he was eaten out of um out of the field because he was hungry.

And so that would have been a violation of the Sabbath.

So they were questioning Jesus about what he was doing, but he pulls a narrative and he says, Hey, did you forget when David did this?

What was your response to that?

And he challenged them.

So I think that it's it's very difficult to come up with a one plus one equals two scenario in this.

But what I see with Jesus is that whenever he's taking something from the Old Testament or a narrative, he pulls the principle out and says, Okay, here's a circumstance around that.

Let's pull the principle from it.

Now, what's your response to that?

So when I comes to looking at biblical narratives and understanding what Paul lays out is how scriptures are meant to be used, I look at how Jesus used scripture, that gives me a little bit of inspiration on how I interpret scripture.

But I think it's important that we don't make ourselves out to be the heroes.

So I think one of the things that I had to grow and learn in is that I think out of just conviction and passion, we we all feel like we're David and our boss is the Goliath.

Like again, it's a if it feels good to say that, and and and I understand all of those things.

Um, but but Jesus says that the entirety of the Bible is about me.

Like he says, I come in the volume of the book, it's it's pointing to me and from me and through me, and we all have a part to play, but our part is typically the disciples, our part is typically the ones who were in the sidelines receiving what David did on our behalf.

So we weren't David facing Goliath, we were the Israelites who were afraid, too afraid to fight him.

So I think we can be motivated by the boldness that we see in David.

We can certainly be inspired by Jesus walking on water, but just don't forget who you are in the story.

So I think that's how I approach it in a sense of like these things happen, we have a part to play, we have a response to it, but never say that you're Jesus in that situation.

You're the one who received what Jesus did.

And now we have a response to it, and how do we continue to walk it out?

So that's kind of how I look at it.

Paul pulls from the Old Testament a lot because he was masterful at it.

Like, so when he's in these debates and discussions, he's pulling from Old Testament, he's pulling from culture, he's pulling from philosophies.

So I think pulling from these things are wonderful, you just gotta make sure you don't make yourself out to be the hero.

I'm chuckling over here because I read that passage from Jesus and I'm like, hey man, be careful, don't pull that out of context.

Exactly.

This is God in the flesh, and I'm critical.

Like, I don't know, man.

Is that is that really what that was about?

So, oh geez, Lord help me.

Um as I uh as I like to do, um well, I guess I'll ask this question.

What are you preaching about next week?

Yeah, I mean um you know what, man, here's a here's a a spoiler that I that I think I will see.

Okay.

Um so so the reality of it is is that I had intended to when I felt a shift in the in this sermon that I was gonna preach, um, I was like, okay, so I'll preach one one one sun or one service and I'll preach the other, and that's just the other.

That was the original goal.

Yeah.

Um and so I kind of like had in my mind, I just don't know which one is gonna go with which service.

So when I get to church and I'm kind of processing and just like being in worship and like literally saying to myself, like, okay, God, any moment now, any moment you want to tell me which way um to go will be helpful.

Um and so, you know, I I see Lindsay at one point, like, hey, you know which way?

I'm like, I I think it's gonna be, and I think by the time I saw her, worship was already underway, and I think that was the case, but I was like, hey, I think I'm gonna do the second message for the first service.

So once I finished and I was in between services, I was like, okay, so yeah, I'll do the the other message for this one because I feel like that's what I initially felt like do one for the other and one for the other.

And so um when a second service started and I was in the back and I was just trying to get my head together, and that's when Megan was like, Hey, I think you need to do that one again because I feel like our church still needs to hear it.

And I was like, Okay, I receive that.

Like, there's been so many moments where I'm uncertain, and the deciding factor is a lot of times just someone you trust, someone that knows you, that understands it.

And and in that case, Megan was right there.

If you were standing back there, I might have processed it the same way, but she's like, I think this is something that's gonna be meaningful.

So in my mind, I already had my other notes pulled up because I was moving on.

Um, so that was that.

So to answer your question, I suspect I'm gonna be preaching the true following Jesus part two this Sunday.

Now, the the challenge is this was only going to be a three-week series.

So in next month or the next series is one that's gonna be that's gonna need the full four weeks just for where I feel like we're gonna go.

And so provided nothing changes, I think we're gonna do something a little bit different, which is I will preach the message that I was intending to preach this upcoming Sunday, but I still already have my research for that third message.

I'm thinking that after the message will be the conclusion of the series where it'll be a a conversation around that subject as opposed to like we'll still or obviously incorporate the discussion of the previous Sunday, but I see us going in a direction to wrap the series up.

So you're hearing it here at first that we're going to conclude the series with part three of Following Jesus on After the Message.

Okay.

Just give me the notes so I can know what's going on.

No, I got you.

I'll try.

Um and then you text me, hey man, I'm feeling a shift, and we should actually talk about Michael Jordan and LeBron, where we talked about in week two.

Yes.

Who is your goat?

Which, by the way, I have a bone to pick with.

Whoever came up with this, because great test EST.

Yes.

That means one.

Yes.

Yes.

He is a goat.

Oh, he's a goat too.

Oh, he's been goated, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Come on.

Uh but I I think it's the third grade grammar.

It's it's literally um it's the participation trophy that we're giving to everybody now.

And listen, I have no bone to pick with everybody feeling loved, valued, and equated.

I believe everybody matters.

So I want y'all to hear me clearly.

Um, but that's not how it started.

It started like, hey, this is the greatest person, period.

But then you just get into an era where like, but what about that person?

They're great, they're hey, everybody's great.

Look, everybody gets a trophy.

Um, and then you can just have your own personal great.

Like, so it's all good.

Yeah.

I even remember thinking at a pretty young age, like, man, the Hall of Fame, they induct people every year.

If you think about this year over year, that's gonna be a lot of people in the Hall of Fame.

You know, and so you just start, anyways, that has nothing to do with this.

Any final, any final thoughts from you?

Um Man, I think it's just you know, to speak specifically to, you know, the storms in life, the challenges in life, and just kind of where where my mind was, still is, and and hopefully somebody can receive this.

You know, I th one of the things that I wasn't surprised at, but I was kind of blown away at is the the amount of people that I had conversations with where it was like, yeah, that was for me, that was for me, that was for me.

Okay, and I and I and I appreciate that, and I suspect it it would resonate with with with some people.

I think my my final thoughts are and and I think in the second service I tried to qualify this a little bit more, and even just me sitting here with you, it's it's the acknowledgement of the storm doesn't make it immediately go away.

I think the ability for us to put our eyes on Jesus and to do our Best uh to trust him in these unknown seasons, it can provide peace, but it doesn't change the duration of the storm.

So even when we have altar calls and we have moments where we're like, hey, let's come up and let's step out in faith, it's never meant to be a transaction of now that I've done this, this is going to go away.

Some people may get that, some people, everybody's experience is a little bit different, and it's all God's timing.

But I just want to encourage anyone and everyone that even if you fully engaged, you went to the altar, you prayed, if you were a part of our service, you listened to the message and it resonates with you, like don't forget, like I didn't have typical points, but I had a thought that was kind of like my second overall thought.

It's God's timing.

So just be at peace that even though I acknowledge I'm in a storm, I'm struggling, okay, you're right.

I need to put my eyes back on Jesus.

I got leftovers, it's all good, but still trust God's timing.

That's something that um I want to encourage all of us with because we can determine our response, but we can't determine um the outcomes.

We were in a meeting a couple weeks ago, and Lindsay was we were talking about healing or something, and Lindsay was trying to rack her brain, like, you said something a while ago that was really good, and I I can't remember all of it, and then she asked you, and you were like, Yeah, I can't remember either.

So this is what I do when I sit on my porch like when I try to find answers to questions that were posed that day.

But I think I remember what you said when it came to healing, and I think it applies to storms as well.

So we need to have the humility to ask for healing, the faith to believe that God can heal, and the maturity to accept when he doesn't.

And so I think even through storms like you're mentioning now, like it may not be a there may not be a conclusion in the moment, but we need to have the humility to ask for God for that, the faith to believe that he can silence a storm.

But the maturity, if he doesn't silence it, it's all in his timing anyway.

That is brilliant.

Yeah.

So that's really good.

I guess I'll be saying some stuff.

We'll put that in the references.

That's good.

Now we're gonna cue Jakari's beautiful voice on our outro to After the Message.

Thank you guys so much for listening.

We hope you stick around next week for part three, which may be a sermon.

Yes, in some form.

Yeah.

Yes, we'll figure it out.

Okay.

God bless you.

Thank you for joining us to learn more about Celebration Orlando, a church devoted to reaching the lost, equipping the found, and helping the hurting.

Follow us on social media using the handle at celebrationorl or visit our website, celebrationorl.org.