After The Message | Tithing and Generosity

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Back like we never left a special season of After the Message.

Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

And like I said, this is a segment we like to call After the Message.

And typically it's a conversation of the previous Sunday sermon.

However, I guess today is kind of that same deal, but uh for the next several weeks, uh, we're gonna be talking about money, or as we like to say in the church, stewardship and generosity, but finances, right?

And so we're gonna not only bring in the spiritual and biblical perspective of it, we're gonna bring in a little bit of the pragmatic uh view of finances, and hopefully it can be a blessing to you, whether you're at the Celebration Church Orlando location or you watch or listen from afar on YouTube or Spotify.

But I want to, before we go any further, welcome uh our special guest today, Jeff Rojas.

How are you, my friend?

Good sir.

How about you?

I'm doing well, man.

And uh let's give a quick intro.

Uh, how about how long you've been coming to celebration?

And um, yeah, what do you what do you do when you're not at church on Sundays or leading group on Mondays?

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh so my family's been at celebration since the start.

So my wife was pregnant with our 10-year-old uh during the interest meetings.

Nice.

And so when the church launched, uh he was geez, eight months old.

Uh and so that was it's been a fun run to kind of see the different uh versions of the church and um just build community along the way.

And so uh along that front, when uh we're not at church on Sundays, uh, we're typically doing something sports related.

Okay.

So whether it's one of the kids playing a sport, uh, which right now is in season basketball and flag football, um, to watching sports to going to sports, it's uh I don't know, man.

It's just it's our heartbeat.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, let's go win some things.

There you go.

Yeah.

What about professionally?

What what do you do?

Yeah.

Yes, so um, I work with a startup.

I lead finance and operations for a startup that uh specializes in digital distribution.

So we help TV networks, record labels, uh, even some stand-up comedians distribute their content uh via different platforms, mostly YouTube, but then other uh video on demand platforms such as Amazon, Freevie, Roku, those different places.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, awesome.

And I think internally as a staff, when we were kind of thinking through, you know, who should we have on, who would be great to talk about?

And when I extended the invitation to you, I think we kind of know on our end why we may have asked you.

But let me ask you, why do you think you're sitting here?

Uh man, I love money.

Um, I don't mean that in a in a negative way.

You know, it's it's that that scripture people always misquote.

And when I say I love money, they're like, oh, but he's the root of the love of money is the root of all evil, you know.

I'm like, not necessarily.

Like, I don't disagree with the Bible on that.

I agree a hundred percent.

Um, but uh, it's one of those things where I've been able to see um, so I grew up in a single parent household.

Okay.

Um, my mom worked really hard, we still didn't have much.

Um, but one thing that she constantly did was keep us in church.

It was our community, and she gave.

Um, and so when I read the story of the widow's might, um, and for those of that don't know, the widow uh is praised for giving what she has without boasting, where other people boast about the you know the amount they're giving, which is significantly more.

And um, when I hear that story, I it resonates with me because I think of my mom, you know, and I think of how she gave um even when we didn't have it, you know, and and so when I see what opportunities money can can bring to the table, um, both in business as well as individual success, um, I think about it through the lens of generosity and what can we do to further the gospel.

Um and so I I think uh when I think about money, you know, I I love money for that reason.

It's like it's a resource that we have available to build the kingdom.

And it's uh it's if we if we can advance the kingdom using money, uh I think it's a pretty powerful thing.

Yeah.

How do you how do you manage that tension without falling in love?

Or perhaps um you know, money is the tool, right?

And we want to be able to use it properly, but how does that not get out of hand to where it becomes an obsession?

Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

Um I think it starts with the heart, right?

It's just like anything, any resource, um e even including time, you know, if you spend it in the wrong way, you're gonna see the fruit of that.

And so I I think about it, I mean, example is this Sunday at church, um, we spoke about tithing.

Yeah.

And so typically after church, we have our seven and ten-year-old in the car and we ask them, Hey, what'd you learn in church?

They tell us, and then we tell them what we learned.

Oh, cool.

Um, and so my 10-year-old, as you can imagine, is starting to become fascinated with money.

He loves sports and he sees how much money these guys make.

And so in his mind, that's a whole lot of Legos you can buy, right?

Yeah, and so uh for us, you know, I start telling, well, we're talking about giving in church, we're talking about tithing and those kind of things.

And uh his question immediately was, Well, how do we give money to God?

And why does God need our money?

And so I go into business mode, right?

Like I'm like, well, actually, you know, uh, you know how mom and dad have a job.

Well, so does the church staff, and they have to do this and this, and it helps pay for the chairs you sit in.

And and you know, my wife and all her wisdom kind of interrupts and says, The church advances the gospel, right?

Like they're giving to this and they're giving to that and they're doing this.

And I'm like, oh yeah, I should that that's exactly why.

And and then my son went to the practicality of, well, how do we give the money to God?

Why do we give it to the church instead of God?

And um, you know, he's trying to process and figure out what's happening here.

And and so we began to explain to him, well, the church helps facilitate the kingdom growth.

God doesn't need our money, right?

Like it the reality is he doesn't need it.

What's he gonna do with it?

He's not a being like us, he owns it anyways, he owns it anyways, right?

Like we learned Sunday.

And so for us, it it's this idea, especially within our our kids' lives, it's you can make a lot of money, right?

Like if I think if if you or I were to sit down and think about our parents and our grandparents and our great-grandparents, what their opportunity was from a financial standpoint to compare to what ours is.

Like I think about my parents' generation, they're boomers.

They were they're blue-collar workers, like they put in hours, they didn't get a ton of return.

I had the luxury of coming along in a time where the internet, I mean, I was a kid, we had AOL dial-up, right?

Like the internet was a thing all of a sudden.

And so I can do what's considered a white-collar job for significant amounts more than what my parents' generation could.

And um I think about that with my kids and their potential to have a lot more money than what what I have.

And if they become too obsessive of that, that's a bad thing, right?

It's just negative.

And so for us, it's it's really helping helping shape their heart towards the gospel and helping them understand and not just money, but time, other resources, relationships, everything.

Everything you do needs to be centered around who God is, who Christ is.

And if you do that, it's okay to obsess about obsess is a weird word, but it like you're to answer a question, it's okay to obsess about things.

Yeah.

If your intent and the result is is correct.

Okay.

Um, so that's kind of how we approach it.

Is it's it's it's also one of those things, it's it's a weird spot where um we oftentimes we think of work as a negative thing.

Uh, we think, oh, well, Adam and Eve, the reason we're gonna have to go to work is because of Adam and Eve.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's not the gospel at all, right?

Like, if we read the story of Genesis, God's task for Adam and Eve was to take care of the land.

Right.

That's work.

Yeah.

I I mean, that's not there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

That's work, right?

And so for us, work is an opportunity.

And if you really lean into it, you know, it's the idea of the scripture, everything you do, do it as unto the Lord.

It's an opportunity to give back uh to God who's given us the opportunity to work.

And so, so for our family, it's it's this idea of what's it look like to work hard, to make some money along the way, and then to reinvest that into the kingdom.

Yeah.

So I think even to that, you know, maybe a little bit of a side note here.

The Genesis account, the curse was that the land was gonna work against you.

You know, like Adam was gonna have to toil against the land.

But as you mentioned, the prerequisite was work, like subdue the earth, you know, and and you bring up a great point.

And I think the the idea of having it made is that we don't have to work.

Um can you talk a little bit about perhaps your your history?

Has it always been have you always been blessed to be able to have margin?

Has there been times for you that have been tight?

And you know, you even mentioned the story about your mom and her that being a model for you um as far as the tithe goes.

Has it always kind of come easy or have there been difficult moments?

Yeah, so both and um for me growing up in church, I grew up in a um denomination that was didn't hold back from talking about money.

Um, we didn't talk about it in the lens of a PL or you know, a profit and loss sheet or anything.

We talked about it in the lens of you gotta give.

Like this is necessary to advance the kingdom.

And um, my mom volunteered as a bookkeeper for most of my childhood at churches.

And so I always I always got to hear when someone gave a significant donation or when the pastor had to take a pay cut or no paycheck, right?

Like this idea of if there's not enough money, then there's not enough money.

Yeah.

And so um And they were talking about that openly in the congregation, you're saying?

Uh no, or you just knew because you're because of proximity.

Yes, I can't.

And so I had, I mean, I'm in the church office on Sunday nights when they're counting the money because where else is a kid gonna go, you know?

And so um that proximity gave me an interesting viewpoint of what does it look like to give.

And so I actually, I mean, I became pretty dogmatic about it from what I can remember at a young age.

Like you give.

And I I remember being a kid, um, and I would get, you know, a birthday check or a Christmas check from my grandparents.

And I would always I felt like I had to give that 10%, even though I didn't do anything to earn it, right?

Like all I had was a birthday.

Um, but I was so dogmatic about it.

It was like, this is 10% goes to God, like it has to, or you know, I may go to hell, who knows, right?

And uh, and so I it became just this thing for me.

Okay.

And uh my wife also was raised in church, tithing was also a big part of their family.

Um, but it it got to a point where it became so transactional and almost an obligation that I kind of lost the heart of it.

And I remember being just just before getting married, being, you know, late teens, so 19-ish, um, and having a running ledger of the money I felt I owed God because I had spent irresponsibly and had not given the tithe.

But I still had this longing in my heart.

I I I don't even know if I caught a longing, it was this disgust in my heart of at myself of I owe this money to God.

Like he was a bill collector coming to take my money, right?

And so for me, it was it came to this head where I'm like, this is this is silly.

Like there is no reason to continue to push like this.

And so uh fast forward into marriage and and so forth, um, I reconciled a lot of that tension and and was able to, you know, we Brooke and I, my wife, we continued to give.

Uh, and then we moved to Orlando about 12 years ago and uh came here chasing a dream job and gave up some money along the way, um, mostly her salary gone.

And then I took a little bit of a pay cut along the way.

And we're moving to a new city, um, higher cost of living, and we still have a house back in Jacksonville where we moved from, uh, that is now worth half of what we paid for it because of the recession.

And it came to this moment of what do we do?

Like 10% when you're in that situation, 10%'s a lot.

Absolutely.

Um, and we continue to give.

Like we have to give.

Um, and I mostly because of my financial background, um, I cut my teeth early in my career as a banker.

And so everything's tracked.

Uh, and so I I keep an annual tracking of this is what we made, this is what we spent on taxes, or we spent on giving, this is, you know, and so forth.

And so look at that percentage and and see it dip on certain years broke my heart.

Um, and I had to come to this realization, or I had to ask myself this question, why?

Why, why are you so upset about this?

Is it because it's a religious practice that you feel you're falling short of, or is there something more there?

And I started to lean into this this question of why do I give?

Is it because I was taught to?

Because I was taught a lot of things that I don't do anymore.

You know, I think I think anyone who grew up in church in the 90s is, you know, is at that point where it's like, I don't know about that.

And so I started asking myself that question, and giving was one of those questions, like, why do I do this?

Um and my wife and I really we it was this idea of we we do this because it advances the gospel.

We do this because the closer we get to God, the more we realize none of it's ours, right?

Like it's it's a blessing, that's a gift.

And so for us, we just kind of dove all in on it again.

Like, okay, but it was with a different realization, right?

It wasn't because it's a budget item.

Uh it's still a budget line item for me.

It's still on my personal budget sheet, right?

Um, it wasn't because someone was asking for it, it was because we wanted to see the gospel advance, and this was a tangible way we could do that by giving.

And so um, you know, I know there's there's multiple ways to give, right?

Like we hear about those on Sundays.

For us, we still I still go in each month and manually do it on the website because I want to I want to process that.

Yeah, like I want to see it because I don't want it.

I mean, all of our bank accounts uh, you know, are hit Netflix, Spotify, Google, whatever it may be, right?

And it's so easy just to become numb to that.

And it's like, oh, it's just another, another expense.

But to us it's not, right?

Like it's an opportunity.

And and if you don't grab those opportunities and lean in on them, think about what's missing.

Think about who's missing, right?

And so that's for us, it's yeah, it there's been seasons of struggle.

Um, I'm so grateful for where we are now, and I'm grateful that we kept pushing, and I'm grateful that uh we have the opportunity to continue to give.

That's great.

You talked a lot about you know your relationship with with your wife and navigating that together.

I know just from the statistics that finances are typically some of the most um disruptive uh conversations in in a marital relationship.

How have you guys remained or have you guys remained kind of on the same page?

What do you do when push comes to shove and you are thinking, like, man, do we drop this?

You know what I mean?

What has that relational dynamic been for you in terms of um generosity and I guess by definition obedience to the tithe?

Yeah, so um a couple of years ago, our company um lost one of our biggest clients who made up 65% of our revenue.

Oh wow.

And uh we had to take a hard look at the budget and decided to do pay cuts across the board for everyone.

And um to the tune of 20%, 20% a person.

And 20%'s a lot of money.

Yeah.

I I don't care how much you make, you know, it's still a lot of money.

And um we as you mentioned, like relationally finances cause issues.

Um when we went through that, we looked at each other and had this this conversation of we're a team, right?

Like, let's do this together.

What does it look like?

Um, what cuts can we make as a team?

Where where can we get extra revenue or extra income, you know?

And uh it's one of those things where we decided to continue to give.

Um 20% is you know, twice the tithing.

And so it's like, well, you know what we do here, but because as I mentioned earlier, we had already decided, we'd made that decision together.

And I think that's the big thing.

Like it you gotta make the decision together.

Um, we decided to stick to it together, and it was super cool to see it play out because then along the way, uh, my wife was able to um in her work, she it kind of comes on seasonality, and uh, she was able to pick up additional shifts which had differential pay based on the evenings or weekends, and it ended up making up the difference of the 20%.

It was one of those things like, oh, this is pretty cool, like this is this is neat.

And it it wasn't this idea of us testing God, we were just doing what we do, right?

We're like, this is how it works.

Um, and so we were able to celebrate that together, right?

And I think that's the that's the biggest thing.

And now, fast forward, you know, two years we're into today, um, the budget cut has gone away, our business is much better.

Um, but we're still in that mindset of this is together, right?

And I I think that's the biggest piece of it.

Um we I I and maybe it's because I was raised in a low-income single-parent family.

When when I think about money, it doesn't bother me.

Um what do you mean by that?

Speak more to that.

Yeah, so I I don't the lack of money or the excess of money doesn't I know I said at the top I love money.

Um, but if I'm to think about it in excess, like obviously if I win the lottery, then that's that's great.

But in excess or in lack, it's just it's still money.

Yeah.

Um early on in my career, I was a banker and had an opportunity to work in retail banking and um had the opportunity to run over drafts every morning, which was a thing, you know.

And um you would see people who had spent way more than they had drive up in super nice cars.

And then you would see people who had a lot of money drive up in really old cars.

And it it really gave me this life lesson on it's money doesn't make you, right?

Um, we had this client and he he would say, Money doesn't make me, I make money, you know.

And it's like as obnoxious as it was at the time, it it's you know, it's the reality of it, right?

And I I think for us early on in our relationship, we'd never really allowed money to dictate who we were.

Um maybe that was a trust in God, maybe that was naive behavior, I don't know.

But um fast forward to today, you know, we're almost two decades together, and it's it's just money, man.

Yeah, it's just money.

You're talking about basically a sense of contentment.

It is, yeah.

So it's it's what Paul says, right?

Like I I know what it's like to have a lot.

Yeah, I know what it's like to have a little.

Yeah.

But I I also I'm right here.

Like this is where I am.

And uh contentment's a hard thing because you you you most of us have this internal drive for something, right?

And a lot of times it plays out career-wise, which then the result is financial gain.

Um, but we have this drive to want to do and be more, and that's not a negative thing.

You also have to settle in on the fact that it's okay if you don't always hit the mark, right?

Like the if you have an impossible goal line, kind of setting yourself up for failure.

And so that we kind of look at money through that lens of okay, it contentment, right?

Like that's exactly it.

It's like, okay, we know what it's like to have a lot, we know it's like to have a little.

Um, would I like to know what it's like to have a lot more?

Sure.

Um, but the end result being an opportunity to give.

And I I think about this story a lot.

My wife and I, when we were dating, um, we were driving through very expensive neighborhoods, multi-million dollar homes, which two years ago was crazy because now I think all of us live in in million-dollar homes, right?

Like, I mean, that's crazy market, but um that was a joke.

We don't all live in that.

And uh, but we were driving through these neighborhoods and I'm pointing out houses I want to buy, right?

And um for me, that's a big deal.

I mean, I grew I grew up in a mobile home park in Jacksonville in a very poor area of town.

And so looking at at homes like that, I want that one and I want that one.

I want and my wife, now my wife who was we were dating at the time, she's like, No, you you wouldn't buy that.

Like, if you had that much money, you're not gonna do that because I know you.

And she was right, right?

Like, I mean, that's the idea of it is I I think if you lean in enough, generosity starts to come natural.

Um, but it's a practice, you have to put the practice in.

Yeah, because it's not it's very rare to find someone who, if you give them ten dollars, it's just gonna hand you that ten dollars back, right?

It's just not, oh thank you.

God blessed me.

You know, you don't think about it, wait, wait, he blessed me to bless of someone else.

You know, most of us don't think that way, and so it's really leaning.

In on contentment.

I think that's it.

It seems like generosity for you, and you even mentioned the dogmatic side of it, but it could be it could be one of your gifts.

Like it could be a gift that God's given you is just a heart of generosity.

And you know, the Bible tells us whatever God's gift that He has given to us, we need to really double down and lean into it and exercise that gift to our full potential.

Um however are there moments where the idea of greed sets in and maybe on the surface it doesn't seem like greed.

And but when you really sit back and think about it, like, man, that was a greedy thought, or that was even a greedy decision.

How do you combat that or how do you how do you even recognize that like and and what do you do to try and overcome that?

Yeah.

Um those are real moments, right?

Like, I mean, I think at any point when we have excess, there's an opportunity for greed.

I I at least I found that to be true in my life.

Um when we don't have excess and we have lack, there's opportunity for lust or covetousness, right?

There's this idea of I I want more, I need more.

Um and so where where I've seen that in my own life personally, is I've had moments where God has spoken very clearly to me regarding financial things.

Don't do that.

And I push forward anyways.

I've had those moments, right?

Like it's the reality of it.

Yeah.

And then I'm left, I I I don't see God as the guy with the big stick, you know, he's I don't think he's mad at me for that, right?

Like I maybe that's because I believe in a gracious God.

I don't know what that reason is, but I I I can compartmentalize and process that differently.

And so, but what I'm left with, which I can't always compartmentalize, is those feelings of I've let God down.

Like we had what I would deem an agreement, right?

Like he said, don't do that, and I did it.

And that's the definition of sin, right?

Like he who does what he knows he's shouldn't do is sin.

And so um for for me in those moments, I have to reconcile that with, okay, you can't go back.

The money's spent.

What are you gonna do now?

Push forward, push forward, and the next time don't do it again, right?

And um, you know, we both have kids.

It's it's that idea of you're learning, the kids learning along the way.

You're trying to teach them, you're not mad at them because they did something wrong.

Sometimes you want them to do it right so they don't hurt themselves, right?

And I think about that in my own life of when I've spent when I knew I shouldn't.

Maybe, maybe God was trying to keep me out of extra expenses along the way.

Um, or maybe there were opportunities to advance the kingdom that will he still do it?

Yes.

He's not he's the kingdom advancing is not contingent on my my you know generosity.

You just don't have the opportunity.

I just don't have opportunity to participate in that that reward, right?

And um I think a lot of times we get caught up in this idea.

I need the the churches I grew up in, all the hymns, all the songs were about what's on the other side of this.

When we all get to heaven, you know, I'll fly away.

It was all these ideas of getting away from earth.

These people hated earth, right?

Like they just wanted to get away from it.

And and I say that in in jest, but really they wanted to be close to God.

Yeah.

And when I read the scripture and I read things like, uh, as on earth as it is in heaven, I'm like, we can experience a lot of that now.

And how do we do that?

Well, it starts with generosity for me.

Um, because like you said, like I do believe that's my spiritual gift.

I remember um before celebration launched, we were we were at another another church and uh we were trying to find our community.

And this was like our first time with these people, and we're at someone's house, we're having a meal, the worship pastor sitting across for me, and his first question to my wife and I is, What's your spiritual gifts?

And I'm like, Oh God, what and what did we just sign up for, you know?

And uh I'm like, oh, you know, I'm hymning and hauling, trying to remember what they are, and all I have is the fruits of the spirit in my head.

And I'm like, oh, it's not a watermelon, it's you know, and I'm going through the kid's song, and and we're just having this awkward interaction about gifts.

But it it challenged me when I got home.

I'm like, I need to learn the spiritual gifts.

I should know those.

I'm a church kid, right?

But it challenged me to really identify, well, what are those?

Um and that was the first time.

I mean, that was uh, you know, a little over a decade ago.

That was the first time that I started to understand giving is my spiritual gift.

Like I I also enjoy doing it.

And uh, you know, I that's not always the case with gifts, but for my I I enjoy doing it, you know.

So um, but yeah, that's that's kind of where we where we landed on it.

That's great.

Yeah.

You mentioned earlier a story which I think is great by the way, that you know, you and your wife share that moment um traditionally in the car after service, and um, there's some reciprocation there for your kids to be able to share as well.

But how do you teach generosity to children and when does that start?

And and I know we were kind of talking, you know, Micah seems very pragmatic in that, but but from a spiritual standpoint too, wanting to instill that in your kids, I know that's kind of a passion for you.

So how have you approached that with them?

Is it more of a modeling?

Is it actually a sit-down and let's talk about it?

What what is it?

Yeah, I think it's all of all of the above.

Um the w I grew up in a family that didn't talk about money, mostly because we didn't have any.

Um and so what's there to talk about?

You know, and I think that's widespread, which is why I asked the question.

Yeah, absolutely.

And uh my wife was opposite, and they they also didn't have much money.

Her dad was in the ministry, and you know, and so but they they talked and still do talk pretty openly about it, where I'm more reserved.

You know, my 10-year-old asks, well, how much money do you make?

My answer is enough.

Um A, because I want him to understand that, right?

Like it's it's enough.

If it wasn't enough, then the problem's me, not the paycheck.

Um and then second, because he's 10, I don't want him going to school telling everybody how much I make, right?

Um, and I also don't want him to have this warped idea of what money is.

And uh, and so for us, we we model it.

Um, we give.

It's it's one of the things I love about our church is we still have a giving station at the church.

Um, I don't know who has to count that, but there have been moments where my kids have dumped jars of coins in there.

And so uh one of the things that we do is anytime our our kids earn money beyond their you know their natural contributions to our family, um we remind them to give.

Um and and we don't we don't do it in a way where it's mandatory.

It's it's it is mandatory.

I will take that money from them if they don't give it.

But we remind them in a way of, hey, you know, as believers, we believe in the 10%, the tithe.

Um you're welcome to get beyond that.

Because that's that's really one of the things that my wife and I have leaned heavier on is how do we get beyond that?

Um not just you know, not just random offerings here and there, but in God and money, they talk about the book, they talk about this idea of not what can you um this idea of what can you what can you live on?

Like what's the minimum amount you could live on so you can give the rest?

Um that challenges me, right?

It's this idea of I can I can I know how to spend money, that's easy.

But what would it look like to give at volumes that we spend at?

And so we we try to model that.

Um we also talk about fine basic financial literacy with our kids.

Um, we my son has a green light card, not a sponsored post at all.

Um, but he does have a card that's made for kids that has an opportunity for giving, investing, saving, all of the above.

And um we we look at that with him together of okay, this is your budget essentially.

Like this is your money.

What's your savings goal?

What's your giving goal?

And so forth, uh, so that they have an understanding of it.

Um speak a little bit more to that card that you mentioned.

What is it again?

Yeah, so it's called Greenlight.

Okay.

Um, it's basically a banking service for kids.

No way.

Um, and so it has his picture on it, it's his own card.

It's a I believe it's a MasterCard, so it has a number, it has an expiration date.

Um, but it's all his money.

So it's tied through an app where we can transfer money in and out.

Uh, he can use it, he used it on Amazon last night to buy some Legos.

Um, but it it's what it does is it helps with financial literacy with kids who oftentimes the first, at least I know when I was a kid, the first experience I had with a card was 18, you're qualified for a debt for a credit card.

Well, that's not my money, but I sure can spend it, right?

And so that'll get you in trouble.

Um, and so for us, we're looking at, okay, well, what exists, and it's super cool that it's a technology that exists now, um, that we can help our kids get in upper hand.

Not that we just give them money, because it's generational wealth is a fun idea, but I would much rather my kids experience generational generosity, right?

Like this idea of if the only legacy I leave my kids is how to give and love God, I did it right.

If I just leave them a bunch of money and they're at their own demise with it, you know, that's not a bad thing.

I hope to leave them something, but I hope that the lasting impact of generosity is far outweighs that.

And uh so for us, we talk about it, we model it.

There's uh there's a great book, it's on the resource list called I Am Money.

Um, it there's one caveat in there that we disagree with as a family, and we talk about it with the kids, and it's pay yourself first.

Um, I do agree and sit with them that you should save money.

It is important to pay yourself, but we teach our kids you pay God first.

And it ain't really paying God, it's giving back to the kingdom, right?

And so um we talk about it, we model it.

Uh, there was there was one one moment we're at the gas station, I was pumping gas, family's in the car.

This guy walks up to me and he says, Hey, you know, I need some new work boots, you got some money.

And I told him no.

I get in the car, Mike and my 10-year-old, dad, what'd that guy say?

I'm like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have this conversation.

And I was like, Yeah, he wanted some money.

And I told him, I told him no, I didn't have any money.

And he called me out on it.

He's like, we were just at the store and you got cash back.

You do have money, it's in your wallet.

I was like, okay, this is a conversation we have to have.

And you know, and it's tough explaining to kids discernment and those kind of things.

And um, was I right or wrong, I don't know if there is such a thing in that moment, you know.

But uh it it opened up the conversation and it's it's important to us to create a space for our kids to ask questions, and that's not just specific to non-monetary things.

Like I want them to ask those questions when they get their first job offer, when when they're applying for fast food, whatever it may be, I want them to talk to us about it.

Um, mostly because we have three decades of experience they don't have, you know, uh ahead of them.

And so um, yeah, I mean, I think modeling is the biggest way to do it because kids see a lot more than than they hear.

That's true.

So as we as we wrap up here, I know um we've covered a lot, but I want to give you an opportunity to offer those listening or watching some encouragement for maybe this doesn't come as naturally to them, or maybe you know, uh this isn't their gifting, so to speak, or they're just having doubts, or maybe even just some misconceptions about what it is to a tithe and then be to uh live a lifestyle of generosity over and above that.

How would you encourage that person?

Yeah, so I would say first things first, ask yourself, have some introspect around why I am hesitant to do this.

Um I think I heard someone say recently it's it's funny we trust the church to help guide our eternity, but we don't trust them to spend our money.

And it's it's funny when you think about it, but it's the reality of we come to church to facilitate growth in God so that we can have eternal salvation, right?

Money is no has no place in eternity, like it's not gonna be here when it's all said and done, it's gone.

Um but we're very hesitant to do that.

And I think a lot of that's because it's tangible.

And so I would challenge people, ask yourself why.

Um and start where you can.

Like I think for me, I grew up in church, 10% was the standard.

Um but as I mentioned earlier, when you know when we got in those rough patches, we did what we could.

And and I think it's oftentimes we see a goal and we get lost in that goal because we're taking too big a leaps, right?

Like we're we're trying we're trying to take huge steps when all it takes is one little step.

You you can't give 10%, start with one.

What does it look like for you to give one percent this month?

What about two percent, three percent?

I mean, you do that if you're able to increase it over the course of 10 months, you know, within a year, you're all of a sudden you are at a spot where it should come more natural.

Um I think when you're I mean, the practical one of the practical pieces of advice is look at your budget.

You know, it's it's AI.

I know that sounds super easy and elementary, but it's like there's probably something there that could come out.

Yeah.

Um, and so I I I I personally, I mean, so I I actually brought some of my favorite scriptures, two of my favorite scriptures that have to do with money.

Um so one of them is Proverbs 11, 25.

And it says, A generous person will prosper.

Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.

And for me, I've seen that ring so true.

And it doesn't even have to do with just money.

I think generosity is far reaching.

We we associate it with money a lot because that's the tangible thing.

Um, but how can you be generous with your time?

How can you be generous in your relationships?

How can you be generous with your emotions?

Like there's so many components and resources that generosity brings grants opportunities for.

And so for me, I've found when I refresh others, when I when I give to others, no matter what that resource would be, I feel more refreshed along the way.

It doesn't mean if I give God$10, He gives me$100 back, right?

Or He gives me$20 back or a dollar.

It's not like a game.

Right.

But it's this idea of I feel better when I do it.

And so if for nothing else, be selfish and do something for yourself and give to somebody else, right?

Um, my my second scripture I have here is Hebrews 13, 16, which says, Do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

And I think that speaks to the multiple resources when it comes to generosity, right?

Do good and share.

And the early church, uh not I don't know how I feel about this, but the early church brought their resources together and distributed evenly.

Um, obviously that was very different times, but uh the idea that they would do that it makes my heart smile, right?

It's this idea of what does it look like to truly be one, you know, a body of Christ.

And I think generosity is is one of the greatest ways we can do that.

That's great, man.

And one of your one of your key points there was to look at your budget.

And if you don't know how to do a budget, that's gonna be next week's episode.

So we're gonna be talking to somebody to help us out with that.

Jeff, thanks so much for being generous with your time today, man, and for talking to us.

We really appreciate it.

And uh, we hope that everybody else you enjoyed it and was able to be encouraged and blessed today.

And we will see you next week for our next episode of After the Message.

Thanks, Nick.

Yep.

Thank you for joining us to learn more about Celebration Orlando, a church devoted to reaching the lost, equipping the found, and helping the hurting.

Follow us on social media using the handle at celebrationorl or visit our website, celebrationorl.org.