S1 E3 | Can Anyone Be Too Far Gone for God? | After the Message

Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

This is a segment we like to call After the Message, where the conversation about life, God, and the Bible continue being on Sunday.

We hope today's episode will encourage, enlighten, and inspire you.

We are back with another episode of After the Message in our It's almost like we never left.

You know what?

It kind of feels like that.

In our new season of After the Message here at Celebration Church Orlando.

Thanks for joining us wherever you may be, however you may be listening.

Pastor Keith, good to see you again.

Good to see you as well, my friend.

How are you today?

I'm doing well, man.

I'm doing good.

Good.

If um like I mentioned last time, if you are familiar with the Celebration Church Orlando calendar, you know, we are post-Resurrection Sunday.

Uh like many churches, we are in the book of Acts right now, uh, examining those scriptures, how um we can see their relevance today, talking through such things as the early church, the Holy Spirit, how um how the church moved throughout um not only just Jerusalem, Judea to the ends of the earth.

We'll quote a little scripture here on this podcast.

But let's do it.

It's after the message, after all.

It is after the message.

And um today on After the Message, I want to start off by talking about a um tradition or a sacrament, if you will, that um we are still um practicing today, which is baptism.

So would love to start there with you.

And uh is there any I didn't include this in the question, it was just coming off the top of my head.

So good luck, but I'm ready for it.

Is there any old testament precedence?

Is this just clearly New Testament?

Like it just seems it seems out of nowhere.

You know, like John the Baptist is out in the wilderness, he's preaching, people are coming out to see this weird guy who eats locust, and then he's saying, you know, repent of your sins and embrace the kingdom of God.

By the way, I'm gonna dunk you in water and that's gonna solidify the whole thing.

Like how do we get here, man?

Oh man, that's um that's such a loaded question.

My bad.

But I'm gonna I'm gonna try to synthesize it in the most succinct way I possibly can.

So the concept of ceremonial cleansing is all throughout the course of the Old Testament.

Yeah, we we see that quite a bit.

Yeah.

So through the varying iterations where we see that the the calling of Israel as a nation.

So we we have this progression where finally like the people of God are are Israel.

That's that's God's called people.

And so we see a cycle of where you have some people who were in rebellion, you see some people who weren't, and then you have the divided kingdom.

And so now you had like southern kingdom in Judea, like we have all these things that are happening at the same time.

So there became this space of like, okay, like the calling of God's people went from being this is just a universal calling, to individuals had to respond.

So we even see as um the children of Israel are about to go into the promised land, and it's like, man, like choose this day whom you're gonna serve.

But as for me and my house, we're going to serve the Lord, it became like this thing of like, you have to make a choice.

Yeah.

Because before it used to be we as a people are all in this together, but there was a shift of, but what's your choice?

So when people started making their choices, it became very like individualistic, tribe or family focused.

We're choosing this.

So how do we acknowledge and set ourselves apart that we are choosing to go this way versus those who aren't?

They would have these varying rituals and these things that they did to say, yes, we are going to consecrate ourselves, we're going to, um, we're going to do the things necessary in order for us to physically align ourselves with whatever this um dispensation or whatever this current covenant is.

So that's kind of the process of how we got to a place of designating physically circumcision, other things that became at one point universal, then it became just choices for individuals to participate in.

So then we have in the intertestamental period, that 400-year gap between the end of the Old Testament and the launching of the New Testament, things continued to be chaotic because there was no real prophetic voice at that time.

So if you think about the end of the Old Testament, there were no synagogues.

Like none of that stuff existed.

But as a result of exile, as a result of different entities coming in and reigning over Israel at different points, they had to have like these spaces of like, but how do we continue to worship Yahweh?

So let's create synagogues.

And then even inside of that structure, well, let's create different groups within that.

So that's how you get the Essenes and you get the Pharisees, the Sadducees, like these different camps rose up that kind of reflected their understanding and interpretation of the law, aka their denominations.

This is how we understand things.

And so in that, you have all these different things that rose up on what it meant to try to get back to the right way, and everyone felt that they were the only one.

So ceremonial cleansing, all of these things.

So then John the Baptist pops up and he begins to preach the gospel of the kingdom.

And so for him, a way to designate yourself away from all these other folks is hey, we're going to baptize you into this.

You're on the pathway of the kingdom.

And so that's kind of like where it all started.

It all started with circumcision, us physically doing things to align ourselves with Yahweh, and then it brought us to the point of baptism.

Is there any, and I I genuinely don't know, is there any callback maybe even to, you know, um walking through Red Sea, maybe walking through the Jordan River, or even I think about uh was it Naaman, you know, dipping into the sort of the that cleansing aspect of it too, very maybe unclean and clean.

Yeah, one of the things that I I love about having the perspective of the Bible that we have now is that we're able to look at these themes that were there that we didn't realize that's what God was doing, especially if you're reading it or experiencing it in real time.

So now we have the ability to look at the concept of baptism, and now we're able to look back and hyperlink back to the very instances where passing through water was a major identity shift for people.

So to your point, going through the Red Sea was a major identity shift.

We see even with um even with the world being baptized with the flood, like we see these moments that were meant to be a deep cleansing so that there can be something new that comes.

So, yes, we have that perspective now that we're able to look back at these passages and say, wow, like God had this theme the entire time that there's like this cleansing and purification that'll take place with the going through of water.

So it's it's a it's a very powerful theme throughout the course of scripture that is really meant to identify an allegiance, an alignment with with Yahweh.

Yeah, I wonder if even in the Last Supper scene, you know, Jesus is washing his disciples' feet, and Peter's like, well, you need to wash all of me, man.

You know, I wonder if there's even maybe a little bit of callback to that.

But for our modern day context, you know, I'm sure there are questions out there.

And again, you mentioned it, denominations, you know, but for for a listener on on After the Message that may be asking, you know, what is required for baptism?

Like, yeah, what do I need to do in order to be baptized?

Yeah.

Um man, I've I've I've explored different denominations and different experiences for decades, it feels at this point.

And um I I remember hearing it simply said one way that I just it really kind of it really humbled me.

And it's like, let's not complicate things by making them more than what the Bible says.

So yes, there are different denominations, different churches that have different ways to on-ramp a person into what is the process of being baptized.

So I I honor and acknowledge that.

When I look at it straight from a biblical view, and this is before we get into the systems and programs that we have in churches to make sure we're raising up disciples the right way, but when you just look at it from the biblical view, it was pretty simple.

It was just like repent and have faith.

So and and and those things are uh interconnected, but what we see is like repent and be baptized.

So there needs to be a space where there's like the repentance was ultimately meant to be um renouncing.

So what you would see in like a lot of the early church literature is that they would renounce their old ways of life.

Again, at the time of the Bible, when it's being written specifically in the New Testament, they were literally dealing with like pagan environments.

We're talking about like worshiping false gods and idols, like so it's not like how we kind of understand idolatry where we kind of just kind of say, Oh, that's pagan, but it's anything that's not like us, it's pagan.

But for them, it was like literal temples to false gods and crazy rituals and things that are taking place.

Uh but these people were being arrested by the gospel, and so their baptism wasn't just like a oh, let me just go through this next step.

It was okay, I'm getting in this water and I'm renouncing the old way I used to live, and I'm gonna bury that and I'm gonna come up in newness of Christ.

So it had always been traditionally repentance, this renouncing of the old ways, and then just having him put in my faith in Jesus.

So that I would say, if we're gonna say requirement, the requirement is that you you have to have faith, you have to believe in Jesus, and and and there's this sense of repentance, this I'm renouncing, I'm I'm I'm leaving these things behind, and I'm coming up in the newness of Christ.

Yeah.

Seems to be a well, I don't want to be unfair to all parts of the world, but that seems pretty consequential, right?

Like, okay, this is gonna be really public, and everybody's going to see like I'm no longer in the temple of Athena anymore.

Like I've identified myself with Christianity now.

Like it it seems seems like there's a little bit more consequence there than just the photo op.

Yeah, it it it carried significant like weight to it.

Because I would say larger like it is for us now, but it had even deeper implications back then.

Like your entire community, family was rooted in the lifestyle you live.

The lifestyle you live was connected to the place that you worship, and the place that you worship was connected to the behavior and things that you engage in.

They were all intertwined.

So your entire life was intrinsically connected to all of these things.

So when you were like, nah, I'm not doing that anymore, and I'm going this way, you were often cutting ties with everything you knew, with your upbringing, the way you eat, where you go, who you hang out with, like everything was being shifted.

So yes, it certainly had massive implications as opposed to like you said, the photo op.

And for us, it's like, I'm going public with my faith.

Like, yes, I don't want to minimize that.

Absolutely, it's powerful.

But the implications at the time that the Bible was being written, it was it was seismic in you saying, I'm picking a side.

Yeah.

And and everybody sees it, everybody knows it, and I'm willing to die for it.

Yeah, and you know, not to minimize it, like you said, there are definitely parts of the world where it is life and death, you know, and it is if I if I do this, if I get baptized, like this this could cost me literally everything.

Um, I think as it stands right now, and in in this era of America and at the time of this recording, that's not necessarily the case.

However, there are people who I'm sure are listening who it is gonna cost them, it's gonna cost them friendships.

I know they're even in certain spaces uh professionally where it it may cost you um it may cost you that promotion, may cost you that job, what whatever the case may be.

Like what what do you what do you say to that?

Like, okay, this is this could hurt me, it could hurt my family, it could hurt my social circles.

How is this a testament even to God's goodness in my life if bad things are happening?

You know if I'm turning to God, if I'm repenting, if I'm renouncing, as you said, my current way of life, my current lifestyle, even, um, you know, that doesn't seem like I'm necessarily it seems like I'm leaving more than more so than I'm being embraced by someone.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

Um one, that that's that's difficult.

And even like even if we look at our our our Western standards, like because everything a lot of things can be so relational and so social, like you often hear people talk about like the culture of entertainment, the culture of Hollywood, whatever you want to call it, like there's a certain behavior and way that you have to flow and exist within certain spaces to even get certain roles or opportunities.

Like there's just like an expectation that's there.

So naturally, if you're living a life that's other than that, it may have deep implications.

So if that's happening even on a large scale of entertainment, then I'm certain that that happens within certain businesses and other things, like, oh man, this guy's a Christian, he may think he's whatever.

And so I do know that it comes at great cost and great expense.

For for me, I I look at it through the lens of man, and I I've been in full-time ministry for a very long time now.

So I I think back to my days of when I was in um the marketplace and needing to be mindful of my assignment there, fulfilling my role while also and primarily being a follower of Christ and never making that a secret, but also trying my best to not like force everybody to kind of see things in the way that I do.

Like, so for me, it's that tension of okay, like I am a child of God, I'm gonna live my life in that way.

Like I remember when I used to work in the school system and it always seemed that whenever we would have like these massive outings as a as a as a department, it would happen to be during times when I was fasting.

So, how do I communicate that in a way that doesn't seem as if I'm better than anyone else or any it's just like, hey, I'm um, I'm just going through a season, like it's it's it's all in how you frame it.

I'm just going through a season where I'm just I'm fasting from certain things.

Sometimes it provoked conversation, sometimes it created curiosity.

Um, sometimes people didn't understand it, and that's okay.

But I never framed it in a way of like, no, I will not let those food touch my lips.

The Lord has forbidden.

Like it just it's all in how you frame it.

So I think even for us, it's just using wisdom and that you can take a stand for God without standing against people.

So I think that's the wisdom that I will hopefully encourage people with.

But yes, there are folks that when you go public in that way, people will look at you differently.

So I think that's where we have an opportunity to live our lives in a way that says, yes, I am now in alignment with God, but that doesn't mean that I am anti-you.

And I think more often than not, people are reacting to their assumption, and maybe that's experiences that they've had with other believers.

True.

I am not better than you.

I'm not I'm just living a life that looks different than you, but in no way am I here to judge or criticize that.

And so I think once we can show that, then people's defensiveness of the way that we live our lives can tend to kind of lower a little bit.

That's at least been my experience when I was in the marketplace.

Is that once people realize, like, oh, like, hey, but you're still a cool dude, you're still a regular guy, you're not in here like, you know, quoting scriptures and trying to do like all this other stuff, like when you're just a regular guy doing your job, your function with excellence, and you're demonstrating the fruit of the spirit.

Like, here's what I know, man.

I don't care what your background is, if you can be at your job and be kind, be patient, be gentle.

Like, if you can just be those things at your job, you tend to have a good reputation.

Yeah.

So I just think just try your best to not just be baptized, but to also demonstrate a fruit, you'll see that that shifts atmospheres.

Yeah.

Maybe it was Francis of Assisi said, you know, preach the gospel and when necessary, use words.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, let your let your light shine uh before men, basically, and so that they may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven, I think is is the way that it goes in the Bible.

But uh yeah, and and you're right, we can't just within with anything, we can't control everybody's reaction, right?

So we have to do what we believe God is calling us to do.

We have to live by our convictions, and the way that you receive it is the way that you receive it.

And perhaps the way that you respond to it today may not be that you respond to it in a decade.

Absolutely.

You know, they may look back at you and go, You man, you remember that guy, Keith?

Like, and the way that he treated me and the way that he loved his family, and the way that he was devoted uh to his to his God despite what was happening around him?

Like you never know what kind of seed that could be.

It plants a seed, man.

Let me let me ask you a question.

Okay.

Do you remember when you were baptized?

Were you like baptized like as a kid?

I know you wrote you were you were raised as a as a pastor's kid.

You were in the church coming up, and then then there's like the adult version of you that really leaned into it.

Like, what's been your baptism journey?

Yeah, my uh my dad baptized me uh in a small church.

Um I I forget, I was probably maybe nine, ten years old, you know, and I never I've never done like the re-baptism thing.

I genuinely I genuinely look at that as a mark in my life of I understood cognitively and you know spiritually within my soul that I needed a savior.

And so that was that was my declaration of that.

And so I I I hold on to that.

Not to say that I never will get back in the water, but uh that that's kind of what I hold to.

But there were definitely points and times in my life where I had to make decisions, I wanted to make decisions that I knew like okay, can't go back there.

You know, like it wasn't so much of a I'm renouncing Artemis as much as I am like renouncing my lifestyle.

So yeah.

And it and it and it and it cost me at the time, but I I will tell you this, it has prompted curiosity and conversation from those circles that I used to run with.

And I think longevity too, because we can all have quick fixes or fads of spirituality, if you will, sure, that are unsustainable and they're really just trying to fill a void.

But when you found the ultimate answer, man, like that doesn't go away, you know.

So it's true.

I think I think longevity has a lot to say about that as well.

Yeah, that's by their fruit, and fruit is only typically birthed through longevity.

That's true.

Yeah, man.

Is baptism the million-dollar question, is baptism required for salvation?

And and I think you kind of touched on that a little bit when you when you spoke about it in the series, but just want to talk about it here a little bit.

Yeah, and so the simple answer is no.

Now there would be some people that would be falling out of their chairs hearing that because yes, you you see that Jesus gives the assignment, you know, like go out and you know and make disciples and baptize them in a name.

So there's certainly like this this connection that people put to salvation and and baptism.

But is it required?

Is is something that we see fleshed out in scripture that I think is a little bit more nuanced, meaning this I don't like to do anything that complicates the cross.

Uh-huh.

The the cross and what we see with the way in which people were saved, it was uh my belief in Christ.

That's the that's the saving thing.

It's my belief in Christ.

But then I believe that now that I have this faith, this this saving knowledge of Christ, there are things you should see in my life.

And so one of those things should be baptism.

You participate in communion, and then there's other things that we see, like you know, we're saved for good works.

We begin to do these things.

So, yes, I believe that as a believer, there should be things that people can see in your life that is evident that makes you a believer, but I don't believe that those things are required in order for you to be saved.

Yeah, that makes sense.

When it when it comes to baptism, when it comes to repentance or renouncing, you know, walking away, uh, I can imagine there are some people saying, Yeah, but bro, you you don't know me, you don't know what I've done, you don't know where I've been.

Um and they can feel hope like a hopeless cause, sure, you know, or they can feel too far gone.

Yeah.

Is there is there such a thing as as too far gone uh for God?

Can can you go too far, I guess, to be able to be redeemed in the first place or to be um transformed in the first place?

Yeah.

I I I look at that question from from two angles.

The one is from a place of genuine, sincere curiosity, wondering if I can get to a space where God is just done with me.

And I think that there's there's damage and shame that needs to be redeemed and help people.

But on the other side of that question, I think also is people that are saying, like, I have been wronged, or I've seen someone who was done wrong, and in my view, they are irredeemable.

So how can they now say that they have Christ and and and now have this whole new way of life when look at all the damage?

They've done.

So both sides are there.

So the the answer to the question is no.

That the the Bible shows us that that that nothing can separate us from the love of God.

And and and I know that that makes it so hard for, especially if you're on the receiving end of things that have been done terrible to you, and then someone is on the other side and they're claiming Christianity and they're walking with God.

And so here's the thing: like the Bible doesn't say that there's not a consequence for the things you do.

Sure.

But when we're talking about salvation and what the power of the cross and the blood of Jesus does, is yes, all are invited into it.

So you can't look any further than scripture.

And again, I think for me, what has helped me shape my theology in the practical way of it is I don't just read the words on the Bible, but I I I look at the people who wrote them, I look at the characters in the Bible.

Paul Paul was wrote two-thirds of the New Testament.

But he was a bad dude, man.

Like he was hunting Christians down, man.

Like he was responsible for a lot of terror and things happening in the church.

And we see that he gets redeemed and radically transformed.

Going back to the Old Testament, like David was man after God's own heart.

But David also had some other proclivities and other things that he did, and yet God still used them.

Samson, God still used them.

So you see that again, this is one of the things that I love about our faith is that we don't sanitize our quote unquote heroes.

Like you see their good, you see their messiness, you see the bad, and how God uses all of it, and none of them were like quote unquote irredeemable.

What you'll find is there are people that after continuous rejection of the invitation of surrender, that God will get to a space where he lets them live out the consequences of their choices.

So when you often read, especially in um Old Testament Exodus, where it says like God hardened Pharaoh's heart, it's not that Pharaoh didn't have an opportunity.

It's just that that Pharaoh and the way that he was wired, he was so anti-God that God just said, I'm gonna leave you to to live out your choices.

And that was the consequence for where he was at.

So under the dispensation of grace and where we are now, I believe that we read stories like Luke 15, Lost and Found, God is pursuing, he's inviting, all are welcome.

Um, and that's the time period that we're in.

But there will come a time when Christ comes and justice comes.

And for those who chose to live a life rejecting Christ, there will be a response to that as well.

God ultimately will give you for eternity what you chose in this finite time.

If you chose to reject him, then he's gonna say, Fine, I will not force you to live with me in eternity because you've rejected it.

Or I chose to be with God and I'm gonna honor your choice and I will let you live with me.

It's it's it's really God will honor your choice.

Yeah.

And and that can be that can be dangerous too.

You know, you mentioned heroes where we we almost use, well, he did it.

You know what I mean?

Like, and he was still okay.

So I I think for especially for for believers, for Christians, or even people who are wanting to have their lives change, but just kind of making the the excuse, like and and you say this, you say this a lot, like the the Bible, a lot of the stuff in the Bible is descriptive, it's not necessarily prescriptive.

So just because somebody had a terrible failure, it doesn't mean that that's a okay thing for you to do.

It's not a prescription for you to um to to sleep with someone's wife and have them killed.

Yeah.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Um but I talked about in a previous episode, we all have our memories, man.

Like we we have things that that we've done that we're not necessarily proud of or or look back on on with fondness, and at times those things can pop up and and remind us of that.

So sometimes it's difficult to embrace our new identity and and to feel to feel like that we are truly forgiven, that we are truly redeemed.

What you know, how how do you encourage people that are maybe going through bouts of shame or possibly even guilt from things that they've done previously, or maybe even while they're walking with Jesus when they stumble?

Yeah.

I I think that's that's probably one of the the biggest battles that we all can have is the is the residue of the life that we used to live and the people that we used to be.

Um and I'm I suspect all of us have a version of that.

Yeah.

Um for me, I I glean from scripture, and again, like I I this will be a theme for me.

I just look at like, man, I wonder how Paul walked this out when he had his radical conversion, knowing that he had the baggage that he has.

So the way that I think most people can be encouraged is community.

You know, I think it's so important to not live on an island and and kind of create your own form of self-punishment and and just try to figure it out yourself or not.

Community is so important because it can serve as a reminder of who you are and what you have.

And and when I think about my own spiritual journey, and and you know, I'm not a I was never a guy that's out here like robbing people.

Um I was just living my life on my own terms, and so I didn't have the baggage to that degree, but I certainly I lived life to its fullest on my own terms.

And so when I think back to decisions I've made and and people that I may have done wrong and and things like that, and and having those moments of feeling shame and regret, it was my continuous showing up and and listening to messages that was reminded me about the love of God, that reminded me about redemption, that reminded me about grace.

Like it was not like a transaction that just settles it all, but it was my continuous showing up.

And then before long, my mind became more renewed into who I was.

It was like the baptism was a significant step in that direction.

It's the continuing to come to church, it's it's sitting with other believers, it's reading the word of God and letting it rewire my mind literally around my new identity in Christ.

Like it was a journey to get to a space of like removing the shame that I think that we all can carry with us as a result of just the shadow part of ourself just having its own free reign for a time period.

So I think ultimately my encouragement would be for anyone who's struggling with shame is don't do it on your own.

Like invite others into that journey and walk alongside brothers and sisters who can who can encourage you.

Put yourself in the presence of God so you can see his love for you.

You know, again, I allude back to um our Lost and Found series.

And um I I spoke with a gentleman just this past week um at church, after church, and he spoke about how that series resonated with him so deeply because he was watching from home because he was living in a space where he didn't feel like he could even come to church.

He just was like so filled with shame.

So as he was listening to the message of especially getting to the part with the the the the older brother and the and the younger brother, but specifically like the the younger brother narrative of like denouncing the father, going out and living in right as living and and and still knowing that, hey, there's an opportunity for me to go home and to be welcomed and loved.

Like I look at those things as parables and metaphors, but I think they're meant to be real-time examples of like God's love towards us.

And if anyone could ever have shame, I would imagine, and that story, he him coming back still literally with the mud and stench of everything that that people group would have rejected at that time, and his father welcomed him with open arms.

Like a lot of my behavior is shaped by scripture.

I'm like, man, like if God did it for them, then he's doing it for me.

Like I literally let that renew my mind and seeing, man, like look at what God did for them.

I know that he's making that available for me and just walking in that confidence, but it's not easy, bro.

Yeah, and that's the powerful thing about confession, too, right?

It it gives us the opportunity, as you mentioned, to do something that can seem a little bit intimidating, obviously, at the time, and depending upon the degree at which you're confessing.

But the the words of scripture are true, man, like confess your sins one another, so that you can be healed, yes, yes, and not not perpetuate the shame and and not live in that that residue, as you said, uh alone, you know.

So uh and and even that's it's even something I literally just thought about now, too, in regard to Luke 15.

The son had that in mind.

Like he was going to confess, he was, he was going to say, like, hey, I repent of what I've done, you know, and and obviously we see embrace from the father and then embrace from the community at large, other than the older brother, of course, but that's neither here nor there.

Man, Acts is full, the book of Acts is just full of boldness.

It's full of people going, not only, yeah, am I gonna publicly get in the water and be baptized, but I'm gonna start telling other people about it.

And when you talk about boldness, there's probably a couple images that can come to your mind in the contemporary context.

Um, you could think about uh the street preacher with the bullhorn, uh, you could think about um somebody in the comment section, you know, being bold for Christ online, you know.

But man, yeah.

How how can we express like true biblical Christ-like boldness in 2026?

Oh man, that's that is the that's the million-dollar question.

It is because I think it looks different for for everybody, and depending on what your assignment is, I do think it is some of the stuff you've talked about.

I do think it's it's a posture of boldness to to get baptized publicly and to say that I'm I'm shifting my allegiance to to to Jesus and and I'm gonna live my life in that way.

There's a boldness there.

I think that there is a boldness in even like the life that you now live.

Paul says it this way, the life that I live is no longer my own.

Like it's coming to a place of of utter surrender, and so allowing the the empty tomb to influence your decision making.

There's a boldness in being able to like steward your resources, your energy, and hey, I can't go out tonight because I'm serving at my church tomorrow morning.

It takes boldness to say that and to orient your life around what you feel like your kingdom assignment is.

So I don't think it's always like standing on street corners and repent the kingdom of heavens that near.

If that's your assignment, then lean into it.

But I just think in our daily lives, what are the opportunities that I can make decisions that are being influenced by what God is calling me to do and just being honest about those decisions?

So boldness a lot of times is like connected to being loud or brash.

And so we often celebrate the loud brash or standing for God.

I love it.

There's a version of that and there's an assignment for that.

But but how do I stand for God when it's just me and one other person, when there is no other audience there?

How do I how do I be bold in those moments?

I think it's just honoring God with your daily decisions and not being ashamed of them.

Yeah.

That's that's what boldness looks like for me.

Yeah, I that's that's the ticket, man.

And I think we'll talk a little bit more about that in the next episode.

But boldness doesn't necessarily demand an audience.

Yes.

You know, it it it is it is perhaps at a coffee shop with the guy who's in between Zoom meetings next to you, you know.

It it is at the gym, hopping off the treadmill, you know, talking to whoever, you know, those those are the moments.

And even in your own soul, you can start to kind of get a little bit, or even, you know, physiologically get a little bit short of breath in in those moments because it's like, man, should I say something?

Should I not?

Should I talk about this?

Should I not?

You know, so I think I think that's the boldness that that anybody can can exhibit, right?

Not not everybody.

Absolutely.

And and that's something that I think, you know, that I commend you for for the times that we've had conversations with staff, we celebrate wins and things like that.

But you know, it's it's looking for moments, those opportunities where you can just share.

And that's, you know, sharing kindness.

It's not like trying to lure people to church, but I feel like you do a a good job, whether it's with a barista or a bank teller, just finding those moments of like, man, I'm going to just lean into this moment.

Like for you, what has that since been like for you for those different moments?

Because you're a man of the people.

You're out meeting with people, man.

I I love that about you.

You're out in the community, you're connecting with our community partners, you're doing so much, but you'll often tell stories of just the small moments of obedience that you have.

What has that felt like for you?

Um well, it was modeled to me terribly, so I'm trying to relearn it, to be honest with you, man.

Because it it was really, you know, just uh out here winning souls and um kind of a turn and burn mentality, turn or burn mentality, which don't get me wrong, I'm so grateful to be to have been brought up in in a Christian household.

And at the end of the day, you say it a lot, like everybody's just trying to do their best, you know, with what they've been given.

And so I'm not trying to throw shade on any of that and and I'm grateful for it.

However, uh, we can learn and grow, and so I think what I've been trying to do recently is it's it's uh trial and error, sure, honestly.

And I think I think people are more open and susceptible than we think that they are.

Yeah, yeah.

I even noticed this just from a social aspect walking through a grocery store, how because of what we see online, we're afraid to interact with other people, not necessarily because we don't want to offend them, but we don't know how they're going to respond to us, how they're gonna respond to us, like just in everyday life, not not even having to do with talking about religion, if you will.

So just add that layer of complexity on onto it, and it makes it a little bit more scary, but yeah I'm just trying my best, I guess, to to take it a step at a time.

And we talked about it a little bit in the previous episode, to just be attuned to the Holy Spirit, and it's and it's not always it's not always a whisper in my ear or a chill, uh as much as it is just like a prompting in my heart.

And it's a moment you almost sense like, man, I feel like there's a moment there.

I I remember um like the it was like it was almost like a sad moment where for me when I when I first got into full-time ministry, and I think I've shared this story with with us as a staff or maybe even on platform, but um we were we were preparing for like a men's conference at at the church in Jacksonville.

Um and we were all praying and then we're like, okay, so be praying about who you can invite.

And we want everybody on staff to invite at least one guy to come.

Um and I was on staff maybe for like six months or so, and I realized that like my primary witnessing field was when I was in the marketplace because those were the only moments that I had that I was spending time around people who who weren't believers, so to speak.

And so it was so easy for people to, hey, where are you going this weekend?

Oh, we got this thing at the church.

Oh, really, what's that about?

Like it just became such a casual thing.

Um, but I remember sitting there and I was like, oh my gosh, like I I I lost my primary mission field because I'm at church all the time.

Like these all of my closest friends are people that are in ministry with me.

And so my temperament is not, I'm not like the guy who's at the who's at the pool with my family, and I'm looking at the family next door and saying, like, hey, do you know Jesus?

Like, so I had to become a lot more sensitive, like you're describing, to those moments where you find just interactions and conversations and you kind of can sense a moment where it may be a prompting.

So I think that's how it can be for all of us.

It it looks a little bit different, but just be mindful when you feel that connection and that sensing and just lean into it and have a conversation and let's see what what the spirit will allow us to lead.

At the end of the day, we all have the same, we all have the same fears ultimately.

You know, we're afraid of death.

But like we talked about in episode one, man, like resurrection is a real thing.

Yep.

So it's very when you read Acts, it's very simple what they were talking about.

Hey, guess what?

You can be brought back to life.

Like death isn't the final answer, like there's something more to this.

So yeah, and that's again what baptism represents.

Anything to to kind of put a bow on on today, Pastor Keith, and any final thoughts for or encouragement for people who maybe are thinking about baptism, maybe aren't quite there yet, who are you know, discovering what what faith in Jesus actually is?

Yeah, I I would say it's um it's so much more than just a symbolic gesture.

And and I I remember again me kind of like looking at these varying traditions of how we we engage these sacred and holy ordinances.

Um but one of the things that I love about like some of the more traditional orthodox approach to just the way that they engage in baptism and even with communion is that there's this moment where they they take these ordinary things, but they become so sacred and meaningful.

This moment where I know that I'm I know that I'm partaking of this bread and this juice.

I know it's not the literal body of Christ.

I know that like I'm I'm I'm cognitively aware, but I also understand that I'm entering into an eons tradition and I'm doing the same thing that Jesus did with his disciples, and now I'm a part of that movement.

I'm doing the same thing that the early church did when they said, do this in remembrance of me.

So for me, it's almost like stepping into this sacred space that we're all participating in, and it's almost like everything everywhere all at once.

It's like we're all in this together and we're all partaking in this together, and I'm participating in the very same thing that I saw Jesus do, and that makes this sacred.

So, in the same way that I envision that for communion, and I genuinely try to like lead our church to like enter into this moment, that's kind of how I view baptism.

Like I look at baptism as this thing where it's like even Jesus who who had no need to repent, who had nothing to renounce, but he entered into this sacred space and yielded himself into the hands of his cousin and was baptized, that was meant to signify him entering into a new season, the launch of his public ministry, entering into this identity of shift from being this man in obscurity to now this man on a mission.

I believe that when we get baptized, we get to enter into that as well.

Like we get to enter into I'm I'm I'm I'm putting on Christ.

So for me, it's so much more than just like, oh, do you have to be baptized in order to be saved?

Like, I think we're sometimes asking the wrong questions.

It's like, why would I not?

Because if the Bible tells me to do it, I saw Jesus do it, what's keeping me from?

Yeah.

So I would say, let's not let the simplicity and sometimes the semantics of an answer keep you from doing something that's sacred because you're you're doing this with a great cloud of witnesses.

You're participating in the very same thing that Paul did.

You're participating.

It's one thing that transcends time that we get a chance to do with every other believer who's come before us.

We all are in this together, man.

And to me, like that's what makes it so sacred.

Yeah, unless you're the thief on the cross, probably a good idea to get baptized.

Absolutely.

He was uniquely he was out of time and and he he's okay.

Uh all jokes aside, hope this is uh encouraging for for you listening.

Hey, if you do have any specific questions or if there's anything you're struggling or wrestling with, like we're obviously here whether you're in Orlando or not.

So celebrationorl.org.

You can hop on there, shoot us an email at CelebrationORL on Instagram.

A DM is great too.

But we'd love to we'd love to come alongside, support, and pray for you however we can.

Yep.

That's what we do, man.

Yes, sir.

We'll see you guys in the next episode of After the Message.

Thanks for listening to After the Message.

If you want to learn more about Celebration Church Orlando, visit our website, celebrationorl.org, or follow us on social media at celebrationorl.