S1 E6 | Living on Mission When the World Feels Broken | After the Message

Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

This is a segment we like to call After the Message, where the conversation about life, God, and the Bible continue beyond Sunday.

We hope today's episode will encourage, enlighten, and inspire you.

Saving the best for last year, After the Message, our final episode on our relaunch season, but not the final episode to come ever.

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Joined today by Lindsay Brenner, creative director at Celebration Church Orlando, worship pastor, extraordinaire.

Yes.

Also, obviously, our senior pastor, Pastor Keith, and I'm Nate and uh Bishop Nate.

Bishop Nate, as I am now known around these parts here.

But uh, you know, in our after resurrection series, looking at the book of Acts here at Celebration Church, almost synonymous with Acts, it's kind of in the name, is service.

Yeah.

Right?

It's great connection, yes.

It's uh laying our lives down, it's um living beyond ourselves, right?

So I figured it'd probably be a great way to wrap up our our relaunch season here, just talking about talking about service, acts of service, acts of the apostles, as our brother Luke um put down.

But before we do that, when we say the word the church, there are a lot of things that can come to mind for a lot of different people because we're speaking to a lot of different people.

Um when we say that word, it can be conflated with other things or convoluted with so I guess let's kind of set the record straight.

Biblically speaking, Pastor Keith, when we talk about the mission of the church or the priority of the church, what are we talking about?

Great question.

I think that there's a big difference between um the the local church and then the global church, the ecclesia.

So the called out ones, that's people who are part of the body of Christ.

So that's different denominations, different countries, different cities.

We're all part of this collective body.

So that's that's the church.

And then you have the local church, which is each individual unique expression of what we ultimately refer to as the Great Commission.

So Jesus says to his disciples as he's preparing to ascend into heaven, he gives them the church's assignment.

And again, the the the global church has the assignment that then the local church has to then walk it out, and that assignment is ultimately hey, like I want you to go off and I want you to reach people, I want you to equip people, disciple them, baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit.

Like that's the great commissioning is to do everything you can do to reach people, to invite them into this family of God that we call the church.

It sounds pretty simple.

Where have we gone wrong?

Why has it become so complicated?

I yeah, I think that's a genuine question.

Like we we we tend as humans to overcomplicate things, I guess, but is it is it that simple of an answer?

Is just because we're humans?

I think so.

Um yeah, I think as humans, we tend to we want to check boxes, we want to understand if we're doing something right or wrong.

And so I think typically as uh the church along the way in the history of man, um, we start then comparing each other and deciding who's doing it right or wrong, and then we just miss the point altogether.

So yeah, I think that's we're human.

So it's easy to get distracted and selfish.

Very true.

And self-absorbed.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I think that's a big part of it as well.

Um speaking of which, there are there are so many things.

Well, we all have our own needs, of course, and uh we we obviously want those uh to be met.

But there are so many needs around us and if we're supposed to look beyond ourselves, uh you know, it can be it can be a little bit overwhelming.

Sure.

Um especially with our our influx of information from where we sit now, and we can talk a little bit about that uh later on in the episode.

But uh yeah, where where does one even start?

Like identi a identifying needs, and B, what's my part in helping to meet that need?

No, that's that's a great question.

I I definitely feel like and again, this might be for later in our discussion, so I won't go too deep into this, but there's no shortage of pain.

There's no shortage of crisis.

And so if we're looking at this through the lens of like like authentic, like discipleship of Christ, I think it starts with like what what are the things that breaks the heart of God?

What are the things that He ultimately has invited and assigned us to participate in?

So I think it's it starts there.

And so we certainly see instances of injustice and suffering and food shortages and things like that.

But I think it's one identifying these things as they are connected to God and dignity and people, but then also like what are the things that really are on your heart?

I think sometimes we can feel overwhelmed because we feel like we have to be a part of every single thing.

And there's even shame attached to it.

Like you can have a passion about this, and then someone's like, Well, what about this?

And it's like, like, how much can I carry?

But I think it's genuinely recognizing what are the things that I'm personally passionate about that God has called me to to be a part of the solution for.

So I think it's what does God say and then what has he wired me and giving me a burden for?

Yeah.

When it comes to you know, choosing um how to how to meet our needs, as well as perhaps our calling uh to use a church term there, or maybe how we're wired.

Um Lindsay, can you kind of talk about that process a little bit in your own life?

You know, there's there's obviously there are there are ways that we can serve, and then there are ways that perhaps God has genuinely or you know uniquely wired us to serve.

Yeah.

How do we how do we find that?

Yeah, I think there's I think I think through two different lenses.

I think the first lens, the wiring side of it, um, I think that is just how God created us.

Like, how are we gonna enter a room and open our eyes and be aware of the people around us?

So I feel like in the spaces that when God opens my eyes and how he's wired me in a space to see something or someone, he's asked me to pay attention to it and respond to it.

And that's one way I think we can respond.

The other one is just like the simple simplicity of where I'm placed in my life, like the location I am.

Um, and this is something I'm learning more today in my current life situation is to look around in the situations that I'm in and the people that are around me and that the simplicity of just responding to what's in my space.

Because I think a lot of times, to your point, it can be overwhelming when you see at all the needs.

But that passion that you're talking about or that thing that's stirring your heart oftentimes is connected to what is right now in your own face or what you're dealing with.

And if you can take a moment and open your eyes, there's typically somebody else who's carrying something similarly.

And I believe God allows that so that we can kind of meet a need in a way that's fully empathetic because it's something you're living.

Um, so I would say a lot of times it's just location based.

Like don't overcomplicate it to try to deal with a need or fix a need beyond yourself.

Sure.

What is literally in front of you or your next door neighbor or your son's pickup school line.

And if you're not careful, we can quickly be busy or overwhelmed by our own problems that we don't see those things.

I heard somebody once say, Um, and this stuck with me even to now, this is probably like two decades ago.

They were like, Sometimes we can be so consumed with changing the world that we stop influencing our family.

And I think that that is such a it's such a reminder for us not to be so consumed with what's happening out there that we ignore what's happening with those things that God has literally put into our lives for us to directly influence.

So that's a great reminder.

I really, I really love that.

I'm glad you remembered I said that two decades ago.

We that's a dangerous place to be because we can get into the comparison mindset where we can go, man, look at what this person's doing, and look at how the impact that they're having, and who am I, you know.

So I think kind of back to your point, like realizing if you do have a worldview that God is ultimately the author of your life, um, he has placed you where he wants you to be his representative in those spaces, and it can be the car line, uh, it can be the house, uh, it could be on stage in front of people, whatever that may be.

He's uniquely called you and wired you to do that.

1000%.

You alluded a little bit to just the the perhaps even the feeling of being overwhelmed at the world and and the things that are placed in front of us on a daily basis, and just just the turmoil that we can all feel.

And I think there are a few different reactions to that.

One can be not my problem.

Um I got my own things to deal with, which I'm sure there's a little bit of truth into that, but to just totally ignore it.

And the other to be to try and take it all on yourself, which doesn't it work anyway?

So I'll start with you, man.

Like, what is our response?

Because we're living in buzzword unprecedented times as far as the information that we are privy to.

Um so how do we, specifically as Christians, as people who claim to follow Christ and claim to care about the needs of other people, how do we take this all on?

I I believe it starts with a key word that that Pastor Lindsay just said, and that's um genuinely trying our best to be intentional with being empathetic.

I think it starts there.

So somewhere along the lines, um, we've conflated this idea that me being aware of something and and caring about something turns into me having to carry it.

Um and so what often happens is we get overwhelmed, we shut down, we live in our own world, we become numb to it, and we just stop caring about things altogether.

But I think it starts with recognizing our own limitations and saying, okay, I know that I can't carry everything, but I can care about a lot of things.

And sometimes caring looks like praying, sometimes it looks like intercession, sometimes it honestly becomes asking the question of Lord, what what will you have me to do in all of these things, inviting God into the process.

So I think for me it it starts with genuinely trying my best to understand where people are and and and then from there ask God, are you asking me to step into this?

And again, I think we lose the the influence of prayer.

We lose, we skip past that and think that we have to be the full, we have to be the fulfillment of all of it.

But maybe God's bringing it to our attention for us to be mindful that someone that it's in our world is walking through this and how can we show empathy?

Sometimes it could be, can you pray for this with this person?

Other times it could be us practically walking it out and doing something to it.

But first pausing to ask yourself, God, if you're bringing this into my world, what do you want me to do with it?

And genuinely pausing and asking God every step of the way is the way that I think will help us to avoid burnout and compassion fatigue.

Yeah.

Lindsay, in your own life, have you seen have you seen prayer be a key component to to empathy or or to care?

Like how how has how have you tried to or have you tried to to practice that at all?

Just given the fact that you know you're you're a mom, you're you're a leader within the church, like you obviously have your own relationships and friends, like you know, you've got a full plate.

Has prayer been a help a helpful tool for you?

Yes, for sure.

I think um kind of what Pastor Keith was saying, I think something something as simple as being inundated by the world problems at large in this season of my life is a little bit overwhelming, truthfully.

And when I end up with my eyes a little bit too high up, a lot of times it's in places of prayer that I feel like God brings me to a place of seeing somebody or something that I didn't realize prior to that that's where my focus or that's where he's asking me to respond.

Um, I know specifically an action that I try to do often in this season of my life is not to uh look too much at the news.

I know that's um maybe controversial.

And maybe for some people um that's not something they find um helpful.

But for me, in this current season, I feel like um that's a limitation that I've kind of, or a boundary, if you will, decided to put up in my in my own life and so that I don't get inundated into a space of like it paralyzes me to a place that I can't do anything about that.

What can I do something about?

And oftentimes I think it's the simplicity of of the people in our world.

And I think we want to make a bigger impact, like you said.

We want our influence to go beyond ourselves.

And so we tend to look high.

But I I do really think there's beauty and simplicity of just looking at what's around you.

And so oftentimes you do know your friend that said, Hey, last week, hey, can you pray for me about this?

And you say flippantly, Yeah, for sure, I'll pray for you.

Well, like that one-time prayer is great, but like we can cultivate that every day.

And as you do that, um, your heart, your empathy, your thoughts, just like your day-to-day, can be brought to that person often.

Check back in, follow up.

And I think that is what God has asked us all to do.

And if we slice the pie of the church at large and we're all doing that, I think that's where global impact and change can really occur.

Absolutely.

Especially the follow-up part.

I can't tell you how many times um you have a conversation with someone, they share something that's on their heart, you pray with them, whether it's at a service, whatever that may look like, and then like you follow up with them later.

Like that is so meaningful for people that they're like, wow, like you you carry this beyond the moment, and you actually are caring for me in a in a profound way.

So I do believe that that checking in, hey, how are you doing?

I want to follow up.

How's our how are things going?

Like that I've seen that like move people closer to God and in community because of that.

Yeah, it's like small, small acts of obedience.

Like, yes, we commit to pray, but those little small things that can really go a long way for people and and for yourself.

Yep, agreed.

You know, if we would all just love our neighbor, then each neighbor would be loved by someone, you know, and then by by the end, uh the neighbor next to you is loving you.

So everybody's taken care of, but uh, for some reason that's difficult for us uh to grasp.

But even thinking about when Jesus is asked that, like, who is my neighbor?

Uh, and he goes into the Good Samaritan parable, it's it's the guy who came across this guy, you know, like it was it was someone in his life he wasn't expecting to to encounter or to meet um that became his neighbor that day.

So uh there are no shortage, no shortages of um nonprofits and humanitarian aids and and all these organizations that aim to do good, that aim to meet needs within the world.

Um I have a I have a feeling, well, more than a feeling, uh I have a a belief that the church was kind of the initiators of such things, but uh we'll we'll pause there and just ask the question is there any distinguishing mark from the church and some of these other, not that they're doing anything wrong, but but what separates perhaps the church or distinguishes the church from some of these other things?

Well, to one, affirm your feeling, um there's actually been research that's quantifiable and and and accessed to show the pipeline for a lot of the influential nonprofits that exist were birthed out of movements from the church.

So 1000% um I suspect, and we all have our different feelings about AI, but if you were to ask uh uh this to put in if you were to remove the church's influence from the world, what would we have?

You would be blown away at the hospitals and tons of other things that were literally birthed as a result of the church taking up this mantle and making a difference.

So in that sense, I'm I'm I'm quite grateful to be part of such a broad legacy of what that looks like.

I think when we talk about the distinctions between what these amazing organizations provide and what we do at its most practical level, um, there is a the church has the the kingdom assignment to meet felt needs that ultimately are leading people to Christ.

Like that's the that's the end goal.

And I know for some folks they may find that a little discomforting and doesn't seem like it's a transaction.

I'm not saying that we're talking about conversion in order to get this plate of food, but you're trying to meet felt needs to let them know that your Lord sees you and He provides for you.

So would you be willing to invite him into your heart?

So again, it it can have different approaches.

Whereas in the nonprofit space, which again does incredible work, um, their goal is to meet the felt need.

And that does need to be done.

So for me, and you know, we we know this, I don't feel like everything has to sit perfectly within the church.

And what I mean by that is the way that we operate is we we identify and partner with organizations who have mastered, for the lack of a better word, the ability to meet some of these felt needs, and then we use them as conduits that has our financial support, our people support, because we do feel that it is an expression of what we feel like God's called us to do.

But the biggest distinction is they may not carry the assignment of preaching the gospel.

Their assignment may be to express it, whereas we're trying to preach it through expression, but ultimately hopefully bring people to a space where they can recognize that Jesus is Lord.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The way I was thinking about it was um they look at the person as a finite being and they meet the needs of their moral life.

Yeah.

The church looks at people as eternal people.

Sure.

And so we're looking at beyond, which you need the felt need met.

Absolutely.

But that that's just the surface.

And I was even thinking about the paralytic man.

In that case, um, what's so unique about that passage is they didn't actually, Jesus didn't meet the man's physical need first.

He identified his spiritual need first and talked about that.

Then he met the spiritual need, and the physical need.

And so it's very interesting to me, even that as Jesus' display here on earth is he's not negating or pushing aside the physical need, but he looks at us as eternal beings that need a savior.

And so I think that's the ultimate differentiation I see.

Beautiful.

That was Pastor Lindsay.

Hear that scripture reference?

And she's she's preaching this Sunday, guys.

Whatever Sunday you're watching, if she's preaching Sunday.

I will not be.

If you could drop that mic, it would be dropped.

But no, it's a it's prioritization, right?

Yeah.

Like the the prioritization of let's get this in line first, and then let's talk about the these other things that that need to be met as well.

Because we are we are a mind, body, soul, spirit.

You know, we we have needs in all those areas, but Jesus's uh priority uh maybe to see to it that our spiritual out our spiritual selves are in line and so that the others can fall uh neatly behind that.

Both of you have have been in ministry for for quite some time, and I'm sure you guys have seen um some pretty cool things or been a part of even some pretty cool things uh within the church.

Anything stand out to mind?

Maybe it be uh initiatives or it maybe it even be organizations, or maybe it be something that you personally have been able to put your hands to that that stick out to you is like, man, I guess if what I'm saying is, when was a moment in your ministry where you're like, this is the church?

This is this resonates with my soul, this resonates with my spirit of what I read in the Bible.

I feel like I'm living it out.

Um the the irony of my answer is it's something that could mess with some people.

But I I remember it for me, it was when we were living in Jacksonville, and we had an outreach ministry that um that was very um agreeable to families.

You may remember this some of this, Lindsay, where you know we would go into a community, we would bring them food, we would do these varying um block parties and and things like that.

So having something like that that my whole family could participate in was one of those things where it was like it was really cool.

Me and my whole family would go out and we would fold the clothes in preparation of giving it to the families.

We would help serve the food.

And then we had like a bike ministry and we were giving them bikes and and all that was really cool.

Um but I chuckled because I think one of the moments that was the the biggest like this is what it looks like is when we honestly just brought Christmas to a neighborhood.

And we're talking about very low impoverished areas.

And um and and depending on what you're where you are and depending on what your needs are, but something as simple as like we would have groups of people, and we did this in partnership with our groups ministry.

So every group adopted a home in this particular neighborhood.

And it was like a whole strategic way in which we knew how many families that were connected to the school, and then we adopted that family, and then we showed up with the Christmas tree, we showed up with food and and gifts for that family, and watching neighbors and even that family having an emotional breakdown of like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe like what why would you guys do this?

And like genuinely watching them and just saying to them, you know, we did this because we felt like God called us to do it.

Like it was so mind-blowing.

So I know that Christmas has become so commercialized and and in many instances, maybe has lost the the heart of what it was really about, but that became an entry point where people were like, come over here, look at this.

These people brought Christmas over here to this family.

And that became an entry point for us to share the love of God through it.

Like that to me was like, this is amazing.

Yeah, it's hard to item like itemize and decide what which one was the most.

Um a quick plug for Glob Global Missions, but that's a good problem.

I'm just gonna say opening my eyes, probably maybe even more than theirs, was Global Missions for me when I've done some trips to Africa and other ones.

But man, those were life-altering for me to see life in a different way.

And my idea of what ministering and serving other, you know, you just have one idea, you show up, you think you're meeting a physical need.

And somehow, some way, the way they approach life and they approach God was so pure that it completely wrecked my outcome of what I thought my role as the American over coming over there was.

So that that I would put over there.

But as as far as being here in the States, the local church meeting needs.

Um, I definitely think one of the most impactful things I've ever been part of.

Um, I was part of a a campus in Jacksonville that did a uh, it was called a project turnaround.

And we invited all of the single moms from the local schools.

And we literally just we were hair giving haircuts and outfits and painting nails and playing with kids and just stocking them up with groceries.

And I remember just being part of that.

Um, they asked me to cut hair and I'm not a hair, I'm not a haircutter.

Um, but I, you know, now I kind of try to do it with my kids because it's cheaper with four kids to cut their own hair.

But yeah, I remember that time and it was beyond, I think, yes, we were meeting needs.

I think I was able to connect to children.

I came from a broken household.

I grew up under a single single mom.

And so being in a space where I was now at that point married and obviously knew the love of God, and I could see myself kind of in those places, and I could not just physically, okay, I'm cutting the hair and but engage and have conversation and um hopefully be an example of Jesus in those small acts.

Um that was pretty impactful for me back back in the old days.

Worship pastor, creative director, hairstylist, haircutter.

Yes, you could work at a salon.

We're gonna open up a salon.

Yes, we're gonna add that to our building.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It'll be part of the pantry, like Lindsay's cuts in the corner.

Lindsay's cuts.

So, so what about for you?

Most impactful?

Yeah, what's been impactful for you?

Um, man, that's a great question.

I think man, I I think uh one of our partners here in the city, uh Orlando Children's Church, um, just seeing some of the work that that they get to do.

Um recovery ministry as well.

Sure.

Yes.

You know, just walking with guys specifically through the difficulties of that they have encountered through substance abuse.

And I and I think what's so special about that is it truly is a visual of restoration.

Yes.

It's literally seeing people at the worst of the worst point in their life, the lowest bottom point of their life, and then just seeing miraculously God turn that around.

And their response to it, man, like they are so grateful, like the gratitude that comes from them knowing that I was literally on a on a fast pass uh to the grave, and like now I have life, and I have life in a in abundance, you know, which is what Jesus came to give us.

Yeah, I think about that often.

About I haven't been part of like close up like you guys have, but just seeing a lot of those people not only come with the the outreach, but also once they're graduated, and like now they've become part of our church and some of the most incredible humans.

It's they they've impacted me in just the way they have stuck the course and just seeing the life change has been really impactful for me too.

It shows you what's possible too through through the gospel after resurrection with the power of the Holy Spirit.

It shows you exactly you know why we do what we do.

And speaking of do what we do, we we like to keep this pretty broad so that everybody can can glean from it.

But every now and then we like to to hone in and zero in on a specific group of people.

You know, we talked a little bit about parenting in the last episode, but for people who do this, whether it be ministry, whether it be parachurch organization, nonprofit, healthcare worker, you know, people who their paychecks are service-oriented vocations.

Yeah.

Um, sometimes the last thing that they want to do is like help uh out of the goodness of their heart, if you will.

You know, how do we how do we stay pure, I guess, is is is my question.

How do we how do we remember that?

First and foremost, we're following Jesus.

And yes, our vocation and uh and our pay may come from something that is service-oriented, but man, there's it's it's a much higher calling than yeah than that, right?

Like we have first and foremost, we have our obedience to Christ.

Lindsay, what do you think?

I was thinking about the fact that when you made that um connection point, like sometimes I wonder like how clean are house cleaners' houses, you know, because they do it all day when you go home.

Yeah.

I don't want to clean.

I'm assuming.

I don't know.

This is my hypothesis.

Let me know if you're a house cleaner and you have a different but I think that's I think that's a struggle.

And I would say it's a daily fight.

I think it's the easy it's the Mary Martha syndrome, you know?

Like it's so easy to convert what we do to checklists, to measurements, execution.

Um and it's easy to attach spiritual reasoning to it.

But if, you know, it's a it's only only you can know when it becomes impure.

Only you can check your heart and go, what am I even doing here?

Why am I doing it?

Who's the source here?

If it becomes the outcome and God isn't my source here, um, he's not the portion anymore.

Well, then that's your indicator.

But it's tricky, it's sneaky.

And there's times where I use the alliteration a lot of times about like car alignment.

You go over a bump, you hit a curb here and there.

In the moment you don't realize it, but accumulated over time.

You take your hands off the steering wheel and it's kind of veering left.

And I think that's the daily fight, the daily question, the God search my heart and show me, because maybe you didn't realize it, but a habit or something, a thought that you're letting kind of ruminate in your mind has shifted it and now you're veering left a little bit.

I think what's what's really good about that, Lindsay, is the the invitation for for God to really do inventory.

Lord, like search my heart, search my hand, like if there's anything in me that's not pure, like root it out, help me to come to awareness of it.

I think that's that's the answer is inviting God into it, because to to your point, it's a it's a daily journey, and depending on what our roles are and and what that all looks like, it can certainly turn into like a job.

But I believe it's it's our posture before the Lord.

So I think at the end of the day, for me, I have to live from a space of overflow.

And and I don't say that like with just like Christianese for any reason, but if if what I'm doing, I'm not also benefiting from, if what I'm doing is not coming from a space of genuine authenticity, then um then I shouldn't be doing it.

So for me, it's it's that constant evaluation of why are we doing this.

And I think, you know, Lindsay brilliantly identified, like, hey, they've chosen to put boundaries around the news to protect like just being inundated with so many different things.

I think that also could probably be helpful for social media to certain extents, because I think sometimes when we're in this work of ministry, we start getting like into comparison and and then we're trying to strive for something that God never told us to do.

So genuinely it's having that space of God like evaluate me.

Like, is there anything in me that's not from you?

Um, because whatever I build it on, I have to sustain it on.

And burnout happens when you're trying to build it in your own strength.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think it's it's also necessary.

Well, I'll speak for myself.

It's necessary for me to build disciplines in my life where I'm doing something that isn't a part of my nine to five.

Sure.

So I'm serving someone not in the name of well, technically we're all always supposed to be doing in the name of Jesus, but it's not attached to it's not attached to the church, right?

And so I think even for someone who is a healthcare worker, offering offering health advice to someone that's not when they're clocked in on their badge over at the hospital downtown, you know, it's it's offering their giftings outside of that.

So I think it's a it's a good practice to intentionally exercise those things when nobody else is gonna ever be aware of it, too.

I I think that's important as well.

And I think to that point, Nate, I think sometimes the thing that can lead people to exhaustion, to unhealthy balances is like sometimes the system that they're in.

So, you know, whether it's talking to a healthcare worker, talking to teachers in schools, sometimes like that passion and that zeal for what you do, it kind of gets a lid put on it because of the system that you're contained in.

And that can begin to kind of like suck the joy out of it.

So I believe doing something beyond the system that it's a part of sometimes can be the liberating thing of reminding you that no, I'm in this system and I need to function within it accordingly, but I still need to be able to tap into that joyful reason of why I said yes in the first place.

Yeah, coming up with you know creative solutions or creative ways in which you can exercise your gift, right?

Yeah.

Um speaking of which it can be difficult.

And I'm thinking of people who I drive a truck at night and I come home and you know, I sleep during the day and then I'm back up and doing it again, or just grueling schedules, or like how in the world am I supposed to uh have any time to again, maybe it's a little bit of comparison, but handout food or whatever it may be.

What would be your encouragement to those everyday life like serving uh scenarios that people can can step into?

I don't know, Lindsay, what do you think?

I can always tell by your facial expression if you're gonna love him to me.

I can kind of tell he does his eyebrow kind of snicker.

Um yeah, it kind of goes back to what with what I was saying before is like to open your eyes to what is literally in front of you.

We we overcomplicate it.

Um I was thinking about um Nehemiah when when he has to re rebuild the wall.

That's a massive task.

And there's a part where it's it literally says that he asked everybody to do what was right across from them.

And so I think don't overcomplicate it.

Like it does not have to be that complicated.

It can fit, and most of the time it's supposed to fit within your grueling truck schedule.

Um, but a lot, a lot of times we just minimize it or think that that's not the way God's gonna use me, or He doesn't use that people, people that way.

Um, you know, I'll I'll share a quick personal example that um connected back to Good Friday, which I know we talked about some in episode one about how impactful it was.

Um and connecting a little bit with us also having an opportunity to be in ministry, not just being the Martha's, but what was most impactful to me during Good Friday was the path of compassion, which if anybody was not a part of that, um, that part specifically, we literally walked um the footsteps, if you will, of Jesus, his final hours carrying the cross.

And as we walked, we were considering him in his final moments right before death.

And he's, you know, holding literally on his back, suffering without compare.

And he turns outward and sees the people around him with compassion.

And that has struck me most specifically in this season of my life where I'm walking through things that I, you know, I just never imagined I would be in.

And it's very easy to kind of isolate or insulate and look inward and be needing people to minister to me.

But what I found most unique and kind of like life-altering in this season of my life is how the people God has bringing in front of me and asking me to turn around in his example and try to minister in my, you know, moment of difficulty.

And that has been not only life-giving in ways that I didn't imagine, but just like seeing the hand of God in those moments.

I would never have been able to minister to some of these people, if you will, if I had not been asked to step into a place of rare disease with my daughter.

And that has been unique.

Um, but it requires opening my eyes.

And there are days where I don't do that well.

Um, but one cool example recently is I on a support page, I found a girl who's in Mobile, Alabama with four kids, literally the same ages as mine, two boys, two girls in that succession, just like me, and their final daughter that they were not anticipating having, um, has the same rare disease as my daughter.

And she's only two, two months younger.

And I saw that.

And of course, my I was like, what in the world?

So I reach out um this week and she said, You are an answer to prayer.

I don't know how to walk this journey out by myself because everybody I come to literally doesn't know how to walk it out with God.

Um, and so we got on a phone call, and um her daughter ended up having something really um scary happening the next night.

But she literally was praying some of the prayers that I had encouraged.

It's just like it's crazy to me how we can find ourselves in these spaces and how that, if we can just be available and look beyond ourselves and be willing to do what Christ Himself did in His in His final moments.

And so that's what we need to do.

And if we could do that, I believe that God will make an impact in ways that we don't anticipate.

How many times have we missed out on being used by God because we've been so self-absorbed with with our own pain, you know, and not to minimize anybody's difficulties in their life, but yeah, looking outward even in the midst of suffering.

Have you found healing at all?

Or have you found solace?

Like what, if you wouldn't mind sharing, like what is that where do you find the energy, I guess, you know what I mean?

And what has it done for your soul?

Well, I think what what happens in those moments, there's an exchange of humanity where I think you can just say, I see you, in a way that somebody maybe hasn't felt seen.

And in turn, you kind of feel seen in those moments.

Um, you don't have to have answers.

That I've learned that time and time again.

People just need people and they need an ear and they need prayers, you know.

And we don't you don't always have to give an encouragement, you know.

I think we as Christians think that that's the thing we offer to the world is some sort of spiritual band-aid.

Um, but we don't.

Like we run to the name of the Lord because he's our strong tower, not for an outcome.

We we run to him, his name, his being, because he he is everything we need.

And so if we can be the catalyst for somebody else to understand that, um, yeah, that's that's where I think the exchange happens.

And the beautiful part of the story, the best part of the story, I think, for me, um, with this lady is about two weeks prior to that, I was on the phone with a mentor, pastor of mine from a long time ago, who was offering up these prayers as encouragement to me for walking through years of um disease and health concerns with his own child.

And I'd begun using them in my daily life to help counteract the very real human emotions that I'm walking through, and then to offer it to somebody in Mobile, Alabama with a very similar situation, and then her to reach out after something and saying that helped me see God and his character and his goodness and something that was, you know, very hard to walk through.

And I think that's the solid.

Like that's what brings the the point, if you will, of all this.

Um yeah.

That's great.

Um analysis paralysis is a real thing, right?

And we we've hit on it at a few different angles uh throughout our time here today.

But uh just kind of putting a bow on uh our time here.

Um what's the next step?

You know, somebody somebody doesn't know even know where to start in terms of putting others' needs ahead of their own.

Uh how as pastors, how as friends, how as just brothers and sisters in Christ, would you encourage somebody to take a step and serve?

I don't know.

I'm just kidding.

Oh man.

Um I think it just comes down to what can I do?

And not from a um a hopeless, like, what can I do?

But more so like Laura, what what can I do?

What can I what can I bring?

You know, I think there's a couple of different um passages to pull from, but you know, you think of the fish and loaves miracle, and and I don't know if like the food got jacked from the poor young boy or if it was like, hey, you can take mine.

I don't know which one happened, but I do know like it seems so insignificant, but that was the ingredients that kind of was the catalyst for the miracle.

And so I just believe that sometimes we can get so overwhelmed with the magnitude of what we're trying to accomplish that we can just what what can I do?

But I think genuinely it's saying, no, but what can I do?

Yeah, what what can I bring?

I may not be able to serve every single week, but can I serve one week?

Can I just serve one Sunday per quarter?

Can I serve one Sunday per month?

Like what can I do?

And just faithfully stewarding that, I believe we'd be amazed at the impact that that has.

So just yes, there's a lot to be done, but you see these instances of where people just do what they're asked to do and God uses that to multiply something exponentially bigger.

I think it's just saying, man, what can I do?

And and being faithful to that.

Yeah.

Uh Lens?

Anything on your perspective?

What do you think?

Yes.

Blob it over.

Appreciate that.

Um I mean, for me personally, I am typically projecting too much down the field.

And so I think that can cause me to be apprehensive towards an opportunity.

Yeah.

When in reality I just need to step in and and do it.

Uh so I've seen in my life whenever I've said yes to things, or whenever I've been invited to be a part of something that perhaps I wasn't necessarily comfortable with, or I didn't know what the outcome was going to be, it turned out to be something good.

Yeah.

Or it led me to a different path that I probably would have never been a part of um beforehand.

And then I think to stop trying to find we're we're always so idealistic and we romanticize service in a way.

And I think that's an unfortunate part of the oversaturation of look what look what's happening, look what we're doing, and you know, like telling everybody about which again, share the story, share the testimony, but um it's not all.

It's not pretty a a lot of the times, you know.

Bro, I'm so I'm so glad you say that.

I know we don't have a lot of time, but I I think what I have seen is the romanticizing of service where it's so convenient, it's so it's so presented as life giving, which I certainly believe it can be, that it does lose the the intention.

Like this is a sacrifice.

Yeah.

This is a surrender.

Um so for me, I I think about the dynamics between Paul and Timothy.

Um and and what's so striking with this mentor relationship is that what many scholars believe is that uh Timothy was introduced to Paul after he was stoned almost to death.

So his his observation of serving Jesus was that it could cost you your life.

And literally after he's nursed back to health, Paul and Timothy leave on that first missionary journey, where then Timothy is then led and then he goes through circumcision, all these other things.

So Timothy's perspective of what it meant to serve inside of the kingdom, it was through the lens of this is sacrificial.

It's gonna cost you something, but man, is it worth it?

And I think if we can frame it in a sense of like, yes, because we live in a church world where we have systems and and planning centers and these things, but yes, we want to try to find things that align with our schedule.

Are my kids uh like are they out of school this week?

Yes, do all those things, but the illusion that it's not gonna cost you something, I think is where people get into it and they realize, yeah, there's a sacrifice attached to this.

We need to make sure that's in front of it as well because it does cost you something.

Yep.

All right, last call for season one.

And we can go back to aliens, we could go something completely off topic.

We could go back to bodily resurrection, but yeah, you just want to give us a an opportunity here to to um put a put a capstone on on this one.

Obviously, looking forward to our our next season uh in the fall, but uh anything that that needs to be said before we sign off here.

I've literally nothing to say about aliens, and I specifically let Nate know beforehand that I will not be speaking about aliens.

But no, I mean I just yeah, I think I just go back to the ordinary life is so if like we just need to submit to the ordinary life of living Christ-like to the people around us, a dining room table, a coffee, shared meal.

And I think we would all be doing better if we could do that.

It's hard, but good is good.

And and and be and be okay with the good.

Like that's kind of what I'm hearing from Lindsay, and it's a great reminder.

Like, we we live in a culture where everything's amazing.

Yeah, everything's incredible.

Every like but good is good.

Yeah.

And just and work your good.

And God is good.

Come on, and you know, if if you're out there and you are struggling, you are like this person in Alabama, or you know, you don't know where to turn, uh, you don't have a local church, what whatever, however, we can serve you, and we you know, we genuinely mean that.

Uh let us know.

We'd love to hear from you.

Uh our website, celebrationorl.org.

You can find a form to fill out to to speak to somebody, a real person on our staff or on our team that would love to pray with you or help meet in need.

Uh, at Celebration ORL is our our Instagram.

Send us a message there.

But genuinely, uh, we're here for you because uh that's what the church is here for.

Pastor Keith, Pastor Lindsay, thank you so much.

Signing off for After the Message season one.

We'll see you next time.

To be continued.

That's right.

Thanks for listening to After the Message.

If you want to learn more about Celebration Church Orlando, visit our website, celebrationorl.org, or follow us on social media at celebrationorl.