Imago Dei - Panel on Diversity

We are in the second week of a series that we're

calling Imago Dei, and as our panelists, if you

will come on up and find your spots as they come

up and get settled in, we just have a primer

that every week we're going to read the same

thing at the beginning of this conversation to

set that conversation. The scriptures tell us

that from the beginning we are created in the

image of God. And so we bear the likeness of

our creator. I'll sit there if you don't mind.

And so we bear the likeness of our creator, every

single one of us. This is why for many years

now, our church website has said, we welcome

all persons and have no leadership limits based

on race, gender, identity, sexual orientation,

or physical ability for those who confess Jesus

Christ as Lord. Because the central standard

is Jesus. But because of how the Bible has been

interpreted over the centuries, the church has

often implicitly and explicitly communicated

that we do not all bear the image of God or belong

equally. Women have been left out or excluded

from leadership in the church. Historic gay,

lesbian, trans, and queer folk have been promised

they can belong so long as they fit in. People

with differently abled bodies have often been

excluded or treated less than because of their

physical bodies. Non -white cultures and ethnic

groups have often been treated like they're only

here to help the quote -unquote real image bearers.

It sounds ugly because it is. It doesn't sound

like Jesus because it isn't. And so our panel

discussions during the Imago Dei series are meant

to be a kind of promise. Not to perfection or

to utopia. And we aren't expecting full agreement

for everyone in the room about everything. But

these conversations are kind of promise that

we are working and learning to be a community

that is safe for people pushed to the margins.

People of color, women, the disabled, and the

LGBTQ plus person. Because we are all created

in the image of God and no one should be left

out. As we discuss what it means for us to bear

the image of God in the church and in the world,

for the church to be a safe place for us to grow

in the likeness of Jesus and the fullness of

what God has created us to be, will you please

welcome our panel for today? Would you each like

to introduce yourself? Tell them who you are,

why you're here. Hi, I'm Corey Holloway. I'm

originally from Jacksonville, Florida. Grew up

over in East Moline, living in Rock Island now.

Proud husband, grateful father of four. You can

see all my kids running around here today. I'm

here to have this conversation because this is

work that I'm passionate about. I want to see

change for all people of all makeups. So I'm

looking forward to having this conversation today.

Thank you. Hi, my name is Amaya Woods. the college.

I'm also an engineering major, hopefully electrical.

I might switch to mechanical, but I don't know

yet. Also, I'm here today because this is something

I probably never do, but I want to kind of break

out of my shell and show the people that they

can do it as well. And so this is like a really

big step for me, so I decided, why not do it?

My name is Marissa Cantu, and I was born and

raised here in Rock Island. And I went away for

a little bit to the Florida area, came back,

went away for school too. But this is where I've

called home. I've always been very passionate

about diversity, about the roles that it plays

in everything that we do, in society, in the

work, in places of worship, and at home too.

So every week we're going to have identical questions

that are only changed to reflect the group of

people that we're talking about. Our group today

has had the questions to consider, to think about.

They might not all answer all of the questions,

partially for time, but also because everyone

has different things that they care more about.

But I wanted to begin asking everybody, what

was your introduction to God and to church, or

how did you initially get connected to God and

church? Who would like to start? Yeah, go ahead.

My story is probably very similar to a lot of

folks. My mom took me to church when we lived

in Florida. As a kid, it was a place to go and

hang out and get to hear these stories, but the

most important things were the snacks, right?

So, whatever juice they were giving out that

day. So, that was my introduction to church.

I wouldn't say relationship. Yet, when I moved

here, I had an opportunity to get involved with...

a local faith -based organization, and there's

when I start to learn the foundations of what

it means to have a relationship through some

great mentors who are in the crowd out here.

It's starting to take those steps. We have a

faith of my own, is what I would say would be

my introduction to the church. I would say my

introduction through the church is... well, to

the church is through my family. My family is

very Christian -orientated, as well as their

families. And they have, I would say, a good

Christian friend group that surrounds them as

well, which helped play a big part because their

kids were around my age, and so we would church

together. And so I had, like, church buddies,

as well as we would also go to, like, little

camps. I don't know if you guys know, but there's

a place called Yuko that my dad used to work

at. And I would go there, and that's how I learned

more about Christ, as well as there were times

where I would go with my friends to their church

and experience what it was like. And so that

just helped play more of a role in seeing that

I was the only kid that went to church that was

other people. So that was something that helped

me get connected more to God and the church.

Marisa. My connection to God and church was my

dad was a pastor at a Spanish Mennonite church

growing up. I also went to what was called Christian

Feminist at the time when I was a young little

lad. And along with that, I had amazing mentors

in my life as well that made a huge impact on

how I viewed God. But yeah, my dad being a pastor

at a church. So in the context of having learned

about God and introduced to the context of church,

And all three of us have grown up in that context.

Have you found it easy or difficult to accept

who you are, how you were made, in comparison

to how the world has treated you? I wanted to

attribute a little piece to that culturally.

Growing up in a Spanish... The way that you're

viewed as a child there and then growing up into

your own community actually made it a little

more difficult for me to grow into my own and

in my own calling. Even though I did grow up

seeing examples of women in leadership, culturally

speaking, there's still that... the aspect of

women serving their children and serving their

husbands and serving community, not so much being

a voice. And so that was a challenge for me growing

up that I was able to overcome as my relationship

with God became stronger and his calling became

stronger in my life. I get a little teary -eyed

because... Even now, I still struggle with the

concept of elderly. So culturally, we hold our

elders to a high esteem as well. And it's funny,

I had a conversation with you a little while

ago about, oh, would I have to talk to a group

of older pastors? And so sometimes to me, as

a Latina woman, it gets a little overwhelming

to think that I need to have some sort of leadership

over elderly. And I don't know if that, does

that make sense? Yeah, because there's cultural

contexts for you that kind of change the way

that you interact with the world around you.

So even like five years older than me, it's like

such a sense of respect that I would never want

to. feel like a sense of authority as being disrespectful,

but obviously we find grace and understanding

in the way that we talk to one another in faith.

So how have you found it difficult or natural,

have you found it difficult or natural to accept

how you remained, and what do you think God thinks

of you? That's a really good question. I would

say... And so that's a little difficult. I'm

like, God, why would you place me in these certain

predicaments or these certain issues? Because

sometimes, I don't know if you guys know, but

I actually have really bad anger issues. So when

it comes to stuff like that, I kind of, yeah,

he knows. I kind of crash out a little bit. They

know, too. But yeah, it's kind of hard for me,

so it's difficult for me to accept that. Especially

with the age that I'm at, I feel like I'm not

fully comfortable with what I think I can handle

and what I cannot handle. But also, I feel like

I've accepted it, and I'm able to understand

that there's a reason for everything, and God

has a reason for everything. So I just need to

trust Him and pray, and that's about it. Yeah,

for me, I would say... Do I find it difficult

to accept myself? No. I'm very proud of who I

am, the man I've become, what has come in. My

lived experience has brought me to where I'm

at today. I wouldn't change a lot of the major

things. Obviously, there's minor things we would

like to change along the way. But from the sense

of God and how God views me and how God sees

me, no, that's a beautiful thing. And I'm glad

that I have that understanding of what would

be difficult. It's supposed to be his group of

people who's also supposed to see you. how he

sees you, and the hurt that has come from religious

organizations, and just being, when I see the

world doing stuff that's messed up and wrong,

it's like, oh yeah, that's what it's supposed

to be doing. But when you see it inside of the

church, right, that's where the difficulties

and struggles come, because it's, I think even

talking to Greg one time, I was like, hey, I

think one of my very first times you asked me

to come up and pray, I was like, hey, do you

need me to wear anything, certain things, so

I can be presentable and all that kind of stuff?

And he was like, no, why would you even? But

that comes from previous experience where you

can just come up here in a hoodie and stuff and

pray in front of the church, right? It comes

from, you know, how you, literally how you present

yourself, the things that you have to say, some

code switching stuff that needs to happen within

the church's walls. So those are the things that

I would find to be difficult rather than how

God sees me. Corey, will you take like 30 seconds

and explain what code switching is? So code switching

would be not being your authentic self in all

situations in areas. For example, we might have

different voices we may have. So how I would

speak with, you know, Chris or Joe is different

than I would speak with like a person that's

not of color that I don't know or meet, right?

So there's like the... Interview person look

probably like the interview version of yourself

that you have to present not to say that I'm

not So in those moments how I may say something

I might do something maybe different just in

front of the audience that I'm in front of To

be who I would think that they would want me

to be Depending on the situation that I'm in

whether it be in the work setting a church saying

Going into uh communities that i'm not typically

from like when i went up to my wife's area of

the country northwest indiana it's like you've

got to probably present yourself in a certain

way so you know things aren't assumed about you

right away right so how a dress could be a lot

different um what i would see just something

relaxing and natural somebody else could see

like oh here's all these just because you look

like that here's all these things about you so

yeah to prevent some of that let me change up

let me switch up that switch bar to code switch

so that I can be who they would want me to be

without there being some kind of friction or

some kind of assumptions upon me just before

they even get a chance to get to know me. Would

that be like Joe, your mom, saying use her white

voice? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have one.

I'm not going to set up a hat because I don't

have a white voice for sure. I'm not going to

do it right now. There's actually an entire movie

about that entire concept with Danny Gilbert.

Anyway, so is there a place that you all have

found yourself in the scriptures that you find

yourself going to to remind yourself of what

God really thinks about you? Man, the scripture

that rings loud and clear is for I created you

in your mother's womb. You are beautifully and

wonderfully made. I reiterate that to my children.

I hope they reiterate that to their children

and continue to allow it to ring loud and clear

that we are beautifully and wonderfully made.

Yeah. I'd echo that. What's that? I would echo

that. Okay. I would say not necessarily. What

I like to do is... help resonate with me and

stick with me throughout the day with whatever

I'm going through, or if it's later in the day,

with whatever I was going through that day to

help me calm down and remember that God is with

me. I would recommend doing it. I like it. I

think it's fun. If you just have your Bible,

and you take it like this, and you flip it like

this, and you pray, and then you just graze your

thumbs over the pages, and then when you feel

like it's the right time, it's like, you should

stop. then you stop and open it. And you just,

you look directly at the page. You don't, like,

search around. You just look directly at the

page. And then that's basically how I find my

verse of the day that helps guide me through

my day. So how do you think that the biblical

concept that everybody has made, Imago Dei, and

the image of God, how should that shape our understanding

of inclusion and diversity inside of a church?

Yeah, I'm sorry about this one. I feel like oftentimes

God, I think God makes it very clear, and I think

in the context of a church, we've made it something

where it's not of God's word, and we've made

it of our own personal views of other people.

We've seen what the world has to, especially

in our country, of how we've taken scripture

and used it to abuse, to harm, to... kill off

other cultures of people, you can't sit up here

and say that was of God, right? So when we're

talking about the concepts of church, when we

hear something that's uncomfortable, it shouldn't

be something that we run away from. We should

go to the scripture and say, how can you help

me understand another person's lived experience

and see it from your lens and your love and not

of what... a potential political party may say,

somebody who you grew up with, say, of a certain

group of people may be. So when we're talking

about inclusion, who was excluded from God? No

one, right? But we can see today how often that

we make sure that we can see there's some churches

out there that say, well, that group is a group

of people that isn't welcome. We shouldn't take

care of those people. When it says we need to

take care of the least of these, then we see

in our world where we're going to take from the

least of these to give to those who have. Greater

than, you know, that's one example of how we're

not literally taking the words of what God has

written and gave us to use as a guide in our

life. do the complete opposite of that and then

find ways to try to use other scriptures to say

instead of saying we're wrong here's a scripture

that says that i'm right right and then we can

take scriptures and use it to say this is why

women have to serve in this way in the church

right um and use that as a manipulation tool

or when it comes to tithing and offering offering

and not understanding people's different situations

and needs or trying to sell Lots in heaven and

stuff like that. Right. So we're talking about

diversity is understanding that when people from

different walks of life will walk into your four

walls. How are you prepared as a church to meet

them where they have to know that your church

is a safe place and show that we're supposed

to be different. We shouldn't be able to. There

should be some kind of difference when you step

into a church. No matter what church it is, it's

different from what you are experiencing and

seeing in the world. If you're also seeing that

in a church, then you're not doing something

right and you're not living what the scriptures

are saying. So, yes, there's going to be some

scriptures that are, I want to say, like contradictory

or maybe have a different understanding than

what we may have today. But the heart of what

God is hoping to do is laid out pretty well in

the Bible. You said something I want to key in

on. If you look at this image, there's some hidden

things in this image. And I want to encourage

you, over the weeks, to be paying attention,

to be looking at it. One of the things that is

hidden in it is that all of the tiles spell the

word safe, safer, or safest. Because that's one

of the things that we're trying to move towards.

For people to know that this can be a place that's

not only safe, is becoming safer, and for some

people might be the safest. So who else? Anyone

have a thought of the biblical concept of Imago

Dei and how it should shape inclusion and diversity

inside of a church? So I don't really have a

really good answer for this, specifically because

I'm still learning more about the Bible every

day and how people interpret it and how I should

interpret it. So I have mentors to help guide

me. the bible a lot of times even now is still

very misused with scripture i had a friend last

year really good friend he's just a little different

um and we got into a few disagreements just because

he is an atheist and he used to be a christian

and he didn't really I bring this up because

he would like to pull out certain scriptures

from the Bible and kind of flip their saying

and be like, yeah, you say this and you say the

Lord is good, but here in the Bible is he really

good and flip what it was saying and interpret

it differently. Like, this is in the scripture

and say stuff like that. So I think, like, I'm

still learning for myself. I mean, I know he

was wrong because he didn't fully read the verse.

He was interpreting it wrong. Have you ever seen

the movie The Book of Eli? Jake Van Dam, someone

who goes here to the church, is doing an internship,

and he's getting a master's at Fuller Seminary.

But he was talking to me about an illustration

he has from The Book of Eli. I'm going to ruin

it for everybody, but the secret is that the

bad guys want to get the only copy of the Bible

that's left because they know that they can manipulate

people with it, that they could use it as a tool

to rule and to have power instead of something

that would be a blessing to people. You go through

the Old Testament, there are these moments where

the Israelites find the Word of God again, they

find the scrolls again, and their response is

not to rule it over each other, their response

is to repent. Their response is to weep at the

idea that they had found this again and look

what the Lord has for us. How beautiful is that?

Let us turn towards him instead of manipulating

each other. And so you're hearing a theme that

the Bible can easily be used as a hammer that

you hit people with instead of a balm that you

heal people with. Marissa, you had something?

Yeah. Scripture says, for God so loved the world.

The Bible is for the world. God is for the world.

It's not for white supremacist America only.

I say that with a lot of conviction because if

we really examine the word of God, there's a

lot of civil rights that take place. There's

a lot of... You know, Jesus walking amongst people

and saying, no, it's okay. I can be in this situation.

No, you don't have to cut his ear off. I can

handle myself. There's a lot of civil rights

that are going on. And if we are proclaiming

the love of God in our lives, then we are to

exemplify love. And to me, civil rights is exemplifying

love. The love for humanity should be within

us. And yeah, but I'm just going to leave it

at that. So this next question is a very vulnerable

question. And so if you don't all want to answer,

you obviously don't have to. But has there ever

been a time that you felt othered by Christianity

or by the church because of your race and ethnic

identity? And would you be willing? If not, would

you either be willing to share that or would

you be willing to share a time that you felt

included by the church? Yeah, so yes, I'm a black

man in America. What do you mean? Yeah, absolutely.

So for a specific example, when you're a part

of an organization, it's a faith -based organization,

and the head of that organization is comfortable

using... uh racial stereotypes as a key key moment

with you um when you uh go off and you learn

more about how do you take care of people and

like i went to school again all this business

knowledge leadership knowledge and things of

that nature and you um come back and you and

as you're studying as you're saying like oh my

gosh like this person is not has not been treating

me or other people that i know who are part of

this organization right right um and i won't

say names or nothing like that but Just to know

that this was supposed to be the place where

you should be able to be fulfilled, you should

be able to be encouraged in a way that would

bring fruit to your life and not destruction

is something that happened often. As far as other

churches, when I lived in Wisconsin for a little

bit, this was during the, I forget which shooting

it was. It could have been the Jacob Blake shooting.

But my wife and I were trying to find a church

home there. And it was as some of the Black Lives

Matter movement was starting to happen, speaking

on the positive things, as far as getting the

messages out and things of that nature. And we

just went and asked, hey, is this something that

the church is going to address? And one of the

people we were speaking to was a Hispanic man.

He was like, no, that's something that would

never get addressed at the pulpit. Like, you

will never hear a message about, like, you know,

the plight of black people and what they will

endure and things of that nature. I mean, like,

looking at you, you're a big, scary -looking

dude. So, of course, like, a police officer initially

is going to be scared of you, right? So, this

is at the church. I'm not outside on the streets

nowhere. This is supposed to be the safest place.

It was anything but that, you know? and made

some kind of comment about my son at the time

and how big he may be someday and how police

officers should be fearful of that. So that's

just two examples of different churches from

different areas of the country who have this

view or perception of, for me specifically, as

a black man in America and experiences that you

will have to endure. So that's . I'm going to

address matter of resources so I used to belong

to a congregation that was predominantly Mexican

immigrants we didn't we didn't have a lot of

resources financially like within the church

and so we had other churches that were like our

sister churches and my longest fight the whole

time of being othered was that we were the outreach.

But our goal is the same, was to reach lives

for the kingdom, right? To reach out to others

in love and to bring them to Christ. And so for

the longest time, within that structure, I felt

like our church was the outreach instead of standing

alongside of us. and helping us reach out to

those that we were reaching out to as well. And

so I want that to make sense to others when we're

providing a sense of funding or offerings or

things that we give. We give from our hearts,

or it should be coming from our hearts. It shouldn't

be coming from a sense of, I feel sorry for you,

I want to do this for you because I'm better

than you. I have more than you. So if we are

giving in that sense because we feel that we're

better than the other person or because we have

more than the other person and this is the only

reason, it needs to be reflected in that sense.

And so I say that across the board. And I know

I'm talking a little bit about resources and

money, but it did feel like a sense of other

in that sense. And if I can speak on the other

side of it. So in dark places, there can still

be light. And so we're going to go back to that

first question, how God sees me. I mean, I'm

looking out at three people that I do life with,

you know, who came from that same dark period

as far as, like, the environment that we're in.

And I do life with these people, right? So you

can always find light in God, even if you're

going through, you know, awful stuff, right?

I think about... my wife's best friend, who is

also a pastor, and he was willing to have a conversation

similar to this in front of his congregation

in Calz, Indiana. So it was a very small town,

and they had gone through this. another monstrosity

was put up on their water tower, and he wanted

to come and invite me in and some others in to

have a conversation of what just happened in

their town and how we can move and address that.

So when we talk about being included, there are

people who get it, and I feel like this church

is a church that gets it and wants to make positive

changes that impact, right? So conversations

like this is just another example of how we can

show inclusion within the church. I do want to

counteract to that. You know, to the part that,

yes, there is people that do have more than you

and do want to give more than you, too. And that's

a fact. And that's okay. It's about where it

comes from. Like, we're in the heart that it

comes from. And I have truly, honestly felt that

this congregation gets it as well. And I didn't

want to take away from my young voice here. No,

that's fine. I personally have not experienced

that in the church. Growing up as a kid, I've

been very young. And, you know, playing with

kids. You don't really stop to look around. If

people are judging you, really, or if adults

are talking about you, you're a kid. So I would

say no. So in your view, what are some of the

barriers that prevent churches from being fully

inclusive and even equitable of racial and ethnic

diversity? And how might we begin to remove the

barriers that you see? um yeah i'm gonna i'm

gonna say that um i asked this question one time

too and if we look around the room and we want

to see diversity it's nobody else's job but our

own it's our job say what do you mean it's it's

our congregation's job to invite the people that

you want to see in your congregation If you look

around the room and you're fine with where things

are, I have a problem with that. I have a problem

with that. I have a problem with if you look

around the room and your community is diverse

and you're not diverse, that's not okay. The

kingdom of God is going to be diverse. I know

everybody's theory is different on how we're

going to recognize each other or not. But I know

I'm going to be like, hey, it's my people up

there, and I'm going to be partying with my people.

And when you say your community, you mean the

city. Yes. Because our city is very diverse.

Yes. When you're in a city that is diverse, your

congregation should reflect that. And it is up

to every single one of us. Greg can rack his

brain along with the pastoral leadership and

the elderlies, and we can be like, how do we

make our church more diverse? Is it the music?

Is it the message? Is it how we wear things?

What is it? How we welcome people? Do we need

to put signs outside? Do they need to be colorful?

Do they need to be dressed in suits? Whatever,

you know. Whatever he could think of. But if

we're comfortable just looking around and seeing

what's here now, then it's not going to change.

Nothing's going to be different. Now there are

things internally as leaders, you know, obviously

that there are things that put in place, you

know, that we, that you could try to do. But

it is up to us as a congregation to want to see

the difference. I'm just going to briefly mention

that yesterday I was at an event and it was from

one city and they were all one color in this

group of dance. girls that are in a dance group,

all one color. And then another city was all

one color. And I was like, I noticed diversity

in every single scenario that I'm in, not just

church. I'm looking at it in my family. I'm looking

at it in the workplace. I'm looking at it out

in society because it's important to me. And

so then I started thinking like, How does that

happen? Like, how does that happen? Because I

know that one city isn't just all one color.

And I know this city isn't just all one color.

So how does that happen? And then my marketing

brain starts thinking they're just not reaching

out to the right families. They're not offering

this or they're not offering that. So when I

look at my congregation and I know that it's

up to me to invite the people that I want to

see here. What are some barriers that prevent

churches from being fully inclusive and equitable

of racial and ethnic diversity? And how might

we begin to remove those barriers? I would say

being afraid of change. I, for one, am a person

that's sometimes afraid of change. I, for example...

churches with people of color and then people

who aren't of color and that was kind of difficult

because the environments are both very different

and especially I would say being afraid of change

and the aspect of we need to learn that every

year or every day is a new step toward a better

future and so we need to be able to face that

change and take it headstrong and face it instead

of being scared and I would say one thing I am

a little afraid of change so a little like a

part of the problem that you're talking about

i would say um i am really nervous when i bring

my friends here just because like of where they

grew up or if they grew up in like a predominantly

black church because they're really different

and sometimes they don't understand because they

weren't raised in both churches or they didn't

have the opportunity to go to both churches that

they don't understand like the different environments

and they feel like out of place and so then i

feel scared to bring them to a place that they

would feel out of place because I wouldn't want

them to feel uncomfortable. So that's a little

something that has to do with, I would say, like

a barrier for diversity in the church is like

being afraid of change and like facing your fears.

I would say the biggest barrier is Western Christianity

to the church would be the biggest barrier. Say

that again. The biggest barrier to church is

Western Christianity. Right. So church should

be about you being able to improve your one on

one relationship with God. And that's not how

it is here in America as it stands today. Right.

Church here is a business and it's here to make

profit for most churches. Right. So if I. So

to truly paint a better picture of that, I should.

If you go to McDonald's here or in Hawaii, you're

going to get the same set of fries. If the church

was really living by God's word, you should.

Everybody might have had to go church hunting.

Like, what is that? Why should we be church hunting

if we are all about trying to do the same thing,

if we're all abiding by the same scriptures here

in Illinois, Florida, Texas? It should be the

same thing, but we know it's not. We know this

is still the most segregated hour in America.

It's right now where we're all praising and singing

songs and all that kind of stuff. There's still

the most segregated hour here in America. So

the barriers is that we've gotten away from it.

It's working how it was designed to work here

in America. So it's working. for those who it

needs to work for. So to make that change, we

have to get uncomfortable, right? Nobody wants

to get uncomfortable, right? But once you start

to do it, you can start taking steps. And it's

about having conversations. It's about putting

in practical steps and having difficult conversations

so that way you can be a church for no matter

who walks through your door. You should be able

to walk through any church and be accepted for

who you are. But we all sit in this room and

know that's not the case, right? So the biggest

barrier is that Our church, how it's set up now,

is not about an individual and being led to improve

your one -on -one relationship with God, what

he's calling you as men and women to do of the

people of God. So as long as that's not the case,

as long as that's not being the case, then yes,

the barrier is always going to be, well, I need

to protect the finances of our church. I need

to protect this X, Y, and Z of the church, right?

So that means I need to... give a not great scripture

because I want to support a political candidate,

then I'm going to do that, right? There's knowing

that if I know, just pointing at my wife, because

we had a conversation with a pastor when we were

out in northwest Indiana. He was like, hey, you

know, I'd rather be out there with the Black

Lives Matters and doing this all kind of stuff,

but I'm not going to do that because that's not

what my sheep needs, right? My sheep need to

hear a different message, right? So knowing,

like, you're the pastor of this church, you know

that, There's something in your spirit not telling

you that something around you isn't happening

correctly. But I'm not going to preach that message

because that's going to rattle my sheep or whatever

the case may be. So that's what's – I'm just

keeping it real, right? Western Christianity

is the biggest barrier to what the church has

– that way God has seen it and the way God has

called it is our biggest barrier. So as long

as that exists, racial inequities are going to

happen. the way women are treated in church is

going to continue to happen. The way we treat

our youth in the church is going to continue

to happen. As long as it's a business, business

is about profit and about the bottom line at

the end of the day, nothing's going to move or

shake that. So what are the practical steps that

individuals in church communities can take to

try to break that down, to make sure that it

actually is a safe place for what we're talking

about? I want to say that we need to practice

being transparent. I think that when things are

happening in our community, when things are not

going great in our city, when we see injustice,

I feel included and I feel heard when members

of my congregation say, hey, I heard about this.

Do you have any idea how I can help? Do you have

any idea what I need to be talking to my friends

about? And I've heard that in this congregation.

I have had friends in this community call me,

text me, ask me questions about what can I be

doing to help the community. I remember when

all of the stuff was going down with immigration.

I mean, it's a scary world that we're living

in right now. And I had friends in this congregation

say, If you know of a family that needs to be

housed. That's big. That's huge. You know, and

how about we practice letting go of traditions?

How about we practice relationships instead of

just being traditional, traditional church and

practice being in relationship with God and being

in relationship with one another. Yeah. Amaya,

do you have any ideas for practical steps that

a church can take to break down barriers and

make this safer? I would say one technique that

I really liked, we did it with youth help. It

was actually really scary, but the end goal was

nice. was to go around at a track and field meet

and go pass out cards to people our age and invite

them to church. At the time, I felt like I was

around 15, and so I was a freshman at the time,

and that was really scary. Freshman in high school,

you know, not a lot of people actually start

going to church. I mean, not a lot of people

continue going to church when they're in high

school, and I learned that throughout high school.

And so that was really scary. And a group of

us, there was like 20 of us and like millions

of people at that track meet. Like it was a lot

because it was our first, their first track meet.

So it was a lot of people. And even though there

was a lot of us in the group, we were still very

fearful of what people might think or what our

friends might think. Even though they knew that

we went to church, we weren't like openly like

talking to them about it or having conversations

about it. So the fact that like we had to go

pass out these cards and say, hey, you want to

come to church? next Sunday was really scary.

But actually a lot of people ended up showing

up and they ended up coming to church with us.

And so I think that's like a really good idea

to just, not even, you don't have to have a card,

just like to go up to someone and be like, hey,

would you like to come to our church? Like do

you go to a church or like conversate with them

every day? Like if you see like a worker at a

store, you can have a conversation with them

about it and just like say hi every day and then

like lead up into it and be like, hey, would

you like to come to my church this Sunday or

something like that, something small. Corey,

let me zero it in a little bit for you, okay?

Because I think you got this, right? So take

that question. Not big C church, little c church,

just us. Just us. Just us. I was going to go

in. Practically, because these are the people

that are the one -on -one getting to know Jesus

and then one -on -one getting to know each other.

So we want to know part of this panel is what

are we meant to be doing here in this room? And

it can have. ripple effect, and it can end up

going out and having an effect on other places,

but for us, what do you think? Where I was going

to go, I think it still can apply. Big church

or small church is accountable leadership, right?

Accountable leadership shows that you understand

the needs of your sheep and what God is calling

you to do and understanding, like, have those

difficult conversations, right? I mean, we're

literally spinning a church. days, service, you

know, having this kind of conversation, right?

So I think we're taking the right steps. Never

stop, never quit quitting, right? So let's continue

to try to reach out to different communities,

but meet people where they're at, right? So is

it that, you know, we invite other churches into

our home or are we going into their home, right?

Does it have to be just here, you know what I

mean? More discussions like this. I'm sure there's

gonna be a lot of questions that people have

so maybe a follow -up if there's you know one

of the Tuesday Activities if you want to continue

on Continue these conversations because oftentimes

people have a lot of questions and they don't

have a safe place to ask the question Hey, I

heard this about this group of people. Is that

actually true? I don't know where to go asset

because my only perception is what I see on TV

or the small interactions that I have You know

if the only time I've ever met black person is

when he was stealing something at the store then

everything about black people stealing must be

true right so and we know that's not the case

but what i'm saying is is continuing to have

these kind of conversations because it's not

going to be resolved here in these 45 minutes

right so continual conversations about these

things as things are happening and then going

back to scripture and saying like hey is this

true you know don't let immigrants in our country

right but we worship an immigrant so like let's

you know like what are we so what are we really

doing out here right so continue continuing the

conversation That's another practical step. Like

I said, accountable leadership is a practical

step. And let's see, usually it's a good three

takeaways when you do these kind of things. I'll

give you time to think about the last one for

your last comment. Any last thoughts from any

of you? And maybe Corey could come up with a

third where you can include in that. Any closing

thoughts from any of you? Yeah, just continue

to show love. Continue to show love to your neighbor,

the people that are not like you. Continue to

ask questions. Continue to ask how you can be

helpful in different situations, even if you

don't understand them. I think conversations

about worry and concern, even if you can't do

anything about it to change it, still show your

character. And it still shows God in you to say,

What can I do? Even when you feel helpless, when

you feel absolutely helpless, and you know that

there's nothing in the moment that you can do,

just saying, what can I do? And being aware shows

a lot of growth, and it shows a lot of compassion,

and it shows a lot of empathy to different situations

that are going on within the world. and within

our community. And I would challenge us to look

at a global God. I can't say that enough. I can't

say that enough that there's a whole thing that

we could do on Western Christianity and all of

those concepts. But if you are not... if you're

not uncomfortable, if you're not having those

uncomfortable situations, then you're not growing.

And so growth, it has a sense of uncomfort within

us that comes with it. And so growth in any area,

and right now, growth in diversity and understanding

should challenge a sense of uncomfort. Any closing

thoughts? to strive for change, find guidance

through prayer, and as well as be more involved

in the community. Like for volunteering, volunteer

for things. I personally don't like volunteering

because there's no money in it, guys. I'm a girl.

She's a little broke BFF right now. But I would

definitely say volunteering. Volunteering helps

a lot. That's the last thing, which is checking

with people. Checking with people. Oftentimes,

we all put on faces when we walk through the

door, and the whole story may not be there. And

it may not be in that moment they're ready to

address it, but just checking in with folks.

So that'd be my third takeaway. And then the

final takeaway is just I just really appreciate

this opportunity. Again, it's conversations that

we need to continue to have. Things change. People

have. different mental processes. Mentally need

to process things because it's a lot that we

just dropped up here today. I'm just happy to

be a part of a church that I see that gets it

and wants to strive to be what God has called

us to be. So, you've probably heard some things

you've never heard before. Some of you are going,

what's Western Christianity? Some of you are

wondering, oh, am I allowed to like... Black

Lives Matter, that phrase. Listen, when we hear

things that we've never heard before, that's

the moment that you lean in and learn more. There

is a resistance that our brain does when we don't

understand something to try and contextualize

it inside something we think we understand so

that we can easily discard it. But this is a

moment, every one of these weeks is going to

be a moment where each one of us is going to

hear something over the course of four weeks.

That, oh, I hadn't heard that before. Or what

is that? Go find out. Go find out. Because learning

is a part of growing. And God is always giving

us opportunities to learn how to love each other

better and how to reflect the image of God that

he has put in each one of us more fully and more

clearly. Will you pray with me? Heavenly Father,

we thank you for the diversity that is within

you, Father, Son. Holy Spirit, I pray that now

that we would know your presence in our hearts

and that you would shine on us the sense of your

image, that we would start to see it more clearly,

that we would then look at each other and see

it more clearly in each other. And over the course

of these four weeks, that we would come out clear

-eyed, even if we have new questions, even if

we have new things that we didn't understand,

that we would come out more clear -eyed towards

each other. because of who you have created us

to be. Amen? Will you thank our guests?