20260531 Discipline II Sunday Sermon Tim Dickmann

So we dealt last week with discipline specifically.

And there are a lot of questions. And so I'm

going to address those this morning eventually

here. But I want to make sure that we understand.

That's not a separate thing. So the disciplining,

the spanking of our children is not separate

from all these other things that we've talked

about. And I'm speaking here, I'm thinking specifically

of the sermon a couple weeks ago on our relationship

with our children. We talked about developing

relationships. We talked about playing games

together. Being interested in their interests.

Showing our love for them. Showing our concern

for them. Involving them in our interests. All

of those things that we talked about as far as

relationships. Alright? That is essential. That

is vital to the discipline of our children. And

again, when I'm saying discipline here, I'm speaking

of spanking. If you are going to spank your kids,

That is essential. That they know mom and dad

love me. Okay? And the way they know that is

because you've shown that to them. You haven't

just said it. I love you. Okay? Words mean nothing.

It's the actions that are most meaningful. I

shouldn't say words mean nothing. My wife is

always getting on to me. About... Words of affirmation.

Saying those things that I mean and I feel. And

so those things are good. We should be doing

that. But it's backed up. It's emphasized by

the way that we act. We show that we love in

our actions. And that puts validity then to our

words. So that is essential. And so I want to

emphasize that this morning. That if you've not

thought in those terms, you've not thought correctly.

Discipline is not separate from everything else.

It all goes hand in hand. It works together.

And in that togetherness is where there is success,

if you want to think like that. Okay, that's

where the blessing comes. Because what is our

goal in this discipline? We've already said,

first and foremost, it's what? The glory of God.

That's everything that we do. We're disciplining

our children. We're spanking them for the glory

of God. We're spanking them out of obedience

to God. Not because we want to. Just because

it's fun. Or we're just supposed to. We're doing

it because God has told us to do it. We love

God. And we're going to obey his commands. Okay?

For his glory. For our good. That's our motivation.

That's the first and foremost thing. And then

we go on with this. So this is essential. That

we have this relationship, this love, and this

obedience to God. I want to emphasize as well

here, again, I think I did this last week. The

necessity of starting early. I'm going to say

these things, and see, this is one of those things

that I mentioned in the very, very beginning,

that this is where offense comes in, because

dealing with our children is a personal issue.

It's very personal, right? If I come to you and

I say, hey, brother, I'm seeing you do this,

this, and this with your kids, and you're not

right here, you're going to be like, whoa, who

are you, right? That's our first reaction. So

it's difficult. And so I want to warn you here.

I'm going to tell you these things. Hopefully

we're in agreement. But if you're not, if you

parents, you young parents, if you're not disciplining

your children now, you're not doing it right.

The time has begun and it's past. Okay? It's

not we're waiting for them. They're all old enough.

That's what I'm telling you. They're all old

enough. Okay? Every last one of them. If you

don't think that, you're thinking wrongly. You're

not thinking biblically. And you're not receiving

the counsel of all of the elders. And so there

you've set yourself above the word of God and

those who are in authority. Hopefully we're all

in agreement there. Hopefully we are. But I feel

compelled to say that. And I feel compelled to

say that for all of you young people who don't

have kids yet, that you can see this is the time.

How do I know it's the time? Because I've seen

your kids. I've watched them. I've seen what's

going on. I see how they are. I raised five of

them. And it's funny, I look back before you

guys had all your kids, and Amanda and I have

had these conversations. When did we start? Again,

that was 14 years ago that we were dealing with

little babies. And so you're trying to think,

when did we really start? When did it begin?

And I'm looking at all you guys and thinking,

it began. It began at this time. I'm full in

it already. So I want to encourage you in that.

If you've not begun, you're late. We talked about

training. Train up your child in the way that

he will go. That training starts now. Because

you're training one way or the other. You're

either training them in the ways of the Lord

and in the proper discipline and instruction

of the Lord, or you're not training them that

way at all. And so you're failing in that. So

understand, you're training them one way or another,

whether it's intentional or not, whether it's

through not disciplining or disciplining. You're

training your children. Make sure we all understand

that. You're training in everything you do, good

or bad. So, one question that we had last week

was these verses talking about train up your

child. What is a child? Who are we defining here?

Along these same lines, when does discipline

begin and when does it end? The spanking, specifically.

And so, these passages that we read last week

all through Proverbs, they're dealing with young

children. They're dealing with these Little infants,

these little toddlers, these little guys, right?

And then there comes a point that I think, again,

our spanking is going to end. And I was talking

with Amanda about this. I was trying to think

about my own life. The last time I got spanked

that I remember, I'm not saying my memory is

perfect here, but we were in our new house after

the fire, and I was like 11. When the house burned

down, I think. And so a year or so they were

building. And so I was around 13 is what I'm

thinking. That I remember getting spanked and

in the new house. So I was somewhere in there.

And I think that was the last time. It was me

and John fighting. I think we threw some punches

that time. And I think that was the last time

I got spanked. And then we were thinking about

our kids. And it was around that same time. 12,

13, again, and it's different for each child.

I will say that. It's not going to be the same.

And so one of the other questions that was asked

is what do we do after that? Well, that's going

to be different for each child. Again, I'm not

a big fan of the grounding. It might be necessary

at times. I'm totally opposed to that when you

should be spanking. Because it's immediate discipline

and it's over. It's done. It's forgiveness. It's

done, right? It's in the past now. You've gotten

your spanking. You've demonstrated a good attitude

here. You've received your instruction. And let's

never think about that again. That's how God

treats us. And so that's how we want to treat

our children. But when they're older then, perhaps

there's going to be some other consequences here.

We can't spank them. And so maybe there is going

to be some privileges taken away. Their phone,

their games, they're not going out with their

friends. Maybe they're going to miss some sports

stuff. I don't know what each child needs and

what that circumstance is going to require. There's,

again, seeking the Lord for wisdom, seeking counsel

from those older than you, those who have experienced

these things. Again, I want to emphasize that.

Seeking counsel from older and wiser saints.

When we look for counsel, I preached on counsel,

it's been a long time ago, but who do we go to

for counsel? We don't go to somebody who's, we

look at their lives and we think, boy, they are

just a wreck. Their kids are a mess. Let me find

out what they did so I can do that. That's nonsense,

right? Now, we may want to go and say, what did

you do so I know what not to do? But I wouldn't

advise it. We're going to go to somebody who

we can say, hey, they seem to have had success

here. It seems as though they were obedient to

the Lord. And they went through some of these

same things that I'm going through. Let me go

find out what they experienced, what they can

tell me. What do they know? We don't just go

to our peers. I gave the example years ago of

Solomon's son. Rehoboam, what did he do? After

he became king, the people came to him and said,

lighten this load for us. Your father really

put a heavy burden on us. Lighten it and we'll

serve you forever. He went to his old counselors

and they said, yeah, lighten it and these people

will serve you forever and the kingdom will be

established. He went to the young men and they

said, oh no, put a heavy burden on them. Your

father's burden was light compared to what you're

going to put on them. He said, oh yeah, that's

what I'm doing. Kingdom was divided. Israel and

Judah from then on. Foolishness. Utter foolishness.

Going to his peers for his counsel. When he should

have listened to the older, wiser men that the

Lord had given him. Go to those older, wiser

people. There's nothing wrong with getting counsel

from your peers. There's nothing wrong with going

to each other and saying, hey, this is what we're

doing. This is what we're experiencing. What

do you think? There's nothing wrong with that,

but you should go elsewhere as well, right? There

is safety in a multitude of counselors, the Proverbs

tell us. So don't limit yourself there. And of

course, we do not go to the world. I hope we

all understand, through everything that I've

preached these number of weeks, it is all...

So contrary to everything you will hear in our

society today. I would be ridiculed for the things

that I've said. I would be told that I'm a terrible

father, a terrible husband, domineering, authoritarian,

harmful, demeaning. All of those things is what

they would tell me that I am from what I've told

you. That's the world's idea. They are so far

from the word of God. Do not go there. Do not

listen. Run from it. I cannot emphasize that

enough. They seek the destruction of their children.

That's what the Proverbs tell us. That's what

they do in the way that they deal with their

children is they seek their destruction. It's

not my words. That's the Proverbs. That's what

we read last week. I could read it to you again.

I'm not going to. We read it. Look up the verses

that we had from last week. All the verses on

Proverbs. Don't go there. So, relationship is

key. Again, I want to emphasize that. Dealing

with our children in love. Guys, I'm sorry. There's

so much that we could talk about on so many issues

here. On so many situations that you're going

to find yourselves in. I felt like I preached

so long last week. I felt then afterwards that

I barely scratched the surface. Love. Dealing

in love is essential. Discipline is love. That's

what it is. It is showing our love to our kids.

If you love them, you'll discipline them, just

as our Heavenly Father does for us. It's not

pleasant, but it's necessary. Discipline and

love. And then I want to emphasize here this

whole idea. There's a book out there, Shepherding

a Child's Heart. It's a good book. It's not perfect.

He talks in there some things about spanking.

He's pro -spanking. But I don't agree with everything

that he says about the way spanking should be

done. I think I said it last week. It's one.

We always did one. Well, maybe when they were

a little bitty, we might slap their hand a couple

times or something. Generally, one was enough.

I mean, you're an adult here. Surely one swat

is enough, okay? And I talked about slapping

their hand in the beginning and then swatting

them on the leg there, not through the diaper,

and then moving up to a paddle. We had a paddle.

Yay big. Something like that, I don't know, right

there. About that wide and that long where it

would spank you. I'm sure most of you have seen

it. One swat. One swat, that's it. We're done.

We're moving on. Unless there was rebellion and

continual whining and crying. One done. That's

what I found to be very beneficial, very profitable,

very good. But it's all to be done in love. And

so we want their hearts. So shepherding a child's

heart. There's some good things there. Some really

good things. We want our children's hearts. And

that's why relationship is so essential. We want

them to know we're doing this for their good.

They may not think of it that way. And they won't.

But there will come a time where they will realize

mom and dad were right. I hope that's the case

for every one of us, that we can look back and

we can say, yeah, I didn't like it. I know there

was a time when I was a child and I thought,

I deserve this. I deserve what's coming here.

I don't like it. Don't like it one bit, but I

know I got it coming because I know I'm wrong.

That's what we want from our children. We want

them to see their sin. We want them to see the

error of their ways. We want to instruct them

in that. And so that's where the beginning message,

instructing our children, comes in. What is right?

What is wrong? Where do we get these things from?

The Word of God. And so we want their hearts.

We want them to love us. And then to know that

we love them. Along those same lines then, what

does the world tell us? Well, if you spank him,

he's going to hate you. Right? He's going to

be angry with you. If you discipline him, then

you're ruining all of these things. That's all

nonsense. It's amazing the way children are.

You can be the worst parent in the world. Your

kid loves you. It is so... That's how God has

made us. When we love our children and we discipline

our children, they will love us in return. That's

all there is to it. Those of us who have older

kids, we've failed them. We've messed up time

and again. And I think we can all say they love

us. When we've disciplined them properly. So

again, those are just lies. Those are lies of

Satan, lies of the devil. Again, I wrote this

one down. You're going to teach them to hit.

Well, if you hit them, you're teaching them to

hit. No, you're teaching them if you hit, it's

in really bad consequences, so don't do it. It's

going to be more painful for you than it was

for whoever else. So don't even go there. The

lies and the wrong thinking is rampant. So we

want their hearts. We want relationship. We want

to shepherd them in that way. So I would encourage

you to read that book. It's a good book. Again,

as is every book. There's no book perfect out

there except the Word of God. And so you're going

to have to, again, read with wisdom and discernment.

But there's a lot of good things there. Okay.

I didn't say this last week, and so I want to

say this now, that discipline should not be humiliating

or embarrassing intentionally. All right? What

do I mean by that? I spank my children in front

of people at times. It's when they were younger,

you know, one or two, and it wasn't always the...

you know looking back i think maybe i should

have gone somewhere else but it was just kind

of an immediate you know reaction so to speak

to their defiance or their disobedience you know

it wasn't an anger and i remember thinking yeah

i could tell they they were to the point where

they were kind of self -aware of what's going

on that people are watching things like that

And I kind of regretted that. And so we're not

wanting to embarrass our kids and humiliate them

through discipline. That's not the point of it.

And so it's a personal matter. We generally are

going to take them aside and deal with that.

Again, it may be required that they're going

to have to give a public apology there if it's

in front of friends or family or whatever. That

might be necessary and that might be humbling,

which is fine. But it's not humiliating. So we're

not looking to humiliate our children. You know,

one thing in, I think Amanda said in Shepherding

Child's Heart, he talks about pulling their pants

down and giving them a spanking. We never did

that. I don't think that that's necessary. I

think that's more humiliating than anything else.

And I don't like that. That's me. That's my thoughts

on the matter. But as we deal with our children,

we're not humiliating them. We're not, you know,

that's not the goal. That's not the goal. Especially

as they get older. Yelling is not discipline.

I didn't say that last week. So yelling is not

discipline. That's sin. Yelling often results

from permissive parenting. So what do I mean

by that? Well, you've been patient. And I use

those air quotes for a reason. Because you haven't

been patient, you've been permissive. You've

just allowed it to continue. So, you know, little

Johnny just keeps doing that same thing. And

you've told him. And now he keeps doing it. And

before long, you're like, hey, I said quit. Right?

And that's not what we're going for. It's not

what we want. Okay? It should be the first time,

the instruction, if that's what's necessary.

And the second time, a spanking. Done. Hey, I

told you. I told you we're not doing that. You've

disobeyed. Spanking. But permissive behavior

often results in frustration and anger. Deal

with that. Immediately, and oftentimes the yelling

is eliminated. Okay? Yelling is not discipline.

And it should never be a part of our homes as

Christians. That's not what we, we're not going

for that. In our homes, yelling at each other.

Okay? That's not good. Especially with our children.

So, don't be permissive with your children and

just allow it to go on and on and on. Okay? In

other words, whining. Allowing whining is permissive

behavior on your part. There is no whining. What

is whining? What is it? It's rebellion. That's

all it is. It's discontent. It's expressing your

opposition. It's rebellion. It's everything the

Israelites did all through the wilderness. That's

all it was. They continually whined to the Lord.

Why? Why are we here? Why did we leave Egypt?

Mom, can't that just have one? Why? That's sin.

That's sin. Don't tolerate it. Begging. Mom,

can I please have one? Dad, can I just have one?

Can we just go here? You tell them no. Okay,

well, but that's a spanking. They should know.

You've given the answer. That's the answer. To

ask again after you've been given the answer.

Is to say what? Dad you're wrong. Mom you're

wrong. Listen to me. I'm right. They're exerting

their will. That's a spanking. It sounds extreme.

And it maybe is. But it's what is required. Because

we're teaching them. And we're training them.

What happens when they go to their job? Go do

this. Why? Why do I have to be the guy to do

that? I deal with that at work. Why is that my

job? I'm not the low man. I know, but somebody's

got to do it. Just go do it. What do we want

to teach our children? To be good employees.

Boss says go do something, go do it. Yeah, you

may not like it. Who cares? That's life. But

what are you teaching when you don't require

that same behavior? Immediate obedience without

whining. Without nagging. Don't allow it. That's

permissive behavior. That's what you're doing.

It's not patience. I want to be clear on that.

It's not patience. Patience is what? Spanking

them. Showing them love. Instructing them. Spanking

them again. Showing them love. Instructing them.

Spanking them again. All calmly, peacefully,

gently, lovingly. That's patience. That's how

we deal with one another. That's how we deal

with our children. That's how the Lord deals

with us. Suffering long. Okay? That's patience.

So don't give in to those things and don't be

permissive. Another thing I wrote down here.

Laughing at them. Laughing at their funniness.

Okay? Funniness. They're cute, right? We've all

seen it. They're looking at you and they're scooting

closer to the thing and next thing you know they're

touching it and they're like... And it's funny.

We look at that and it's kind of funny, right?

Because it's like... What's going through their

mind? They know I see them. They know they're

not supposed to do it. When we laugh at that

type of behavior, what have we done? We've encouraged

it. We've said that's cute. Oh, you're a cutie.

Don't encourage that. We found ourselves, Michael

was a piece of work. He'd be just some funny

stuff that he would do. But it would be, again,

because you're like, What is this kid? Where

did that come from? But there would be times

where we were literally like trying not to chuckle

at this behavior because we had to spank him

for it. But you're sitting there thinking, what

is this kid thinking? Where did that come from?

Don't laugh because that just encourages that

behavior. That says that's funny and okay. All

right? Don't do it. You cannot do it. You've

got to see it for what it is, right? We think

it's cute. What is it? It's sin. Sin's not funny.

Okay? That's how you've got to view it. And if

you view it in that way, it's not nearly as funny.

Okay? So, beware of that. Amanda pointed this

out to me, and so I want to say this. You know,

we talked about if you're chasing your kids,

you've got problems. Okay? Immediate obedience

is what is expected. You call, they come. And

she said something to me about training the kids

to hear your voice. So when they hear mom or

dad's voice, they know, I need to listen to this.

I need to hear whatever's being said here. This

might refer to me. This might mean I need to

do something or go somewhere, whatever. And so

when they hear your voice, they know, they perk

up. And we've all trained ourselves like that

in certain ways. We hear certain things and we're

alert to what's going on. Your children should

be the same. When they hear your voice, they

should know, I better listen to this. I better

pay attention. Something important could be said

and be referring to me here. So that's important

in the training of our children. And again, we

don't want to be yelling at them. At our house,

we found I was always yelling at the kids because

they were in the basement. So you're like, hey!

Because they're down there making all kinds of

noise, they can't hear anything. And you're yelling

down the stairs and it's around the corner and

you're just, Caleb! You're just yelling at them.

Not because they're in trouble, but you just

need them to do something. It's time for dinner

or whatever. That's not what we want. And so

we were like, fine, we're going to flip the switch.

The light's on off. And they know the light goes

on and off. They've got to come running because

mom or dad want them for something. So don't

train them to respond to the yell. Train them

to respond to the voice. That's what you want.

I hear, I'm listening. And I'm coming or I'm

doing whatever I need to be doing. All of that

can be trained at home. And so again, training

our children is going to require effort and even

time set aside for that. When you're home and

you're having your family devotions or you're

done with that, there can be a time of training

there. Kids are playing and you can tell them

different things, work on different things. They're

playing, they're distracted, and you can say,

hey, come here. the immediate response is not

going to be come to you because they're playing.

And so you've got to train them. Hey, I said

to come, and when mom and dad say come, you come

right away. Put your toys down. They don't matter.

You come. And then you instruct, and you send

them back to play. And ten minutes later, when

they're fully engrossed, you do it again. Come

to me. And then, again, you go on with that.

Whether that needs to be a spanking now or whatever,

you've got to decide. But that's training your

children. Expectations at a young age. Training

them in that way. That book that I gave, I think,

most of you, Training to Train Up a Child, he

gives some examples in there that I've experienced

in my own life of life and death situations based

on my voice. Caleb. Derner died one time running

out into the street, and I yelled at him because,

again, it was a little bit loud, but he stopped

just as the car went flying by. Now, how many

other kids in the world have we seen who, when

their parents yell at them, they don't pay a

lick of attention to any of it, would have run

right out in the street and been run over? Training

them to hear your voice and to obey immediately.

It literally can be life and death. We experienced

it. This wasn't life and death. But they were

old. This was a few years ago on vacation. We

were playing in the ocean and something jumped

right behind everybody. Something big. I don't

know if it was a shark or if it was a dolphin.

But I was seeing the whole thing and I said,

everybody out. And they weren't like, why dad?

What's going on? They knew this is a serious

matter. Dad said this and he wasn't joking and

they all just got out. I mean, I was shocked

because I think Caleb was married. And it was

just like they all knew. Dad's being, this is

serious. Dad's really saying something's going

on here. But that's how it should be. When you

speak, your children should know. Something's

being said. And the tone of your voice and the

way that you say it also speaks volumes. I didn't

yell at that time. I just said, we need to all

get out, or whatever it was, and everybody just

got out. And they're like, what's going on? Like,

I don't know, something big just jumped right

behind you guys. I don't know what it was. That's

what we're looking for, even in young, young

children. Train them. Expect that of them. Work

with them. All of these things teach authority

as well. I don't think I talked about that. We

are the authority in the home. We are teaching

authority as we do these things. And we're teaching

our children to submit to authority. It begins

in the home and it expands into the rest of their

lives. They need to know who is in authority

all the time. And it's not... We teach it at

home and we encourage it then in the rest of

the world as they live their lives, okay? So,

for example, they're teachers, right? They need

to know their teachers are in authority and mom

and dad have put their teachers in authority.

So when you send them to school or to Sunday

school or, you know, whatever it is, they know

this person, mom and dad, have put me under their

authority here. I'm to obey. In the same way

I obey mom and dad, now they have put this authority

over me for this period of time. I need to obey

them. We teach that in the home and it expands

throughout. So you've got teachers, you've got

coaches, you've got, as they get older, police

officers, their bosses, you name it. We expect

them to respect authority because we've... Taught

them that in our own homes. Okay? That's essential.

That is essential. That they understand this

idea of authority. And let's be clear. Authority

is not something that has to be earned for these

kids. That's nonsense. Okay? That's nonsense.

Oh, they didn't earn my authority. Or his authority.

That's because you've set yourself as the authority.

Okay. I'm going to deal with these questions.

These are specific questions that were raised.

I think I've talked about a couple of them already.

Public discipline. Legally, it's legal. So in

Missouri, you can spank your kids in public.

You're not allowed to abuse your children, but

you can spank them. So I just want to say that

right now. There's no reason to fear. But even

if it wasn't legal, we obey God rather than man.

Carol gave us a great example in our discussion

group last week. And so this is one of the great

benefits of the discussion group. So she gave

the example of a man throwing a fit in the checkout.

And what was Carol's response there? Well, she

paid for her groceries, she went out to the car,

and she gave her a good spanking. It was good.

Good example, right? You're right there. You

go ahead and finish what you're doing. You take

her out. You give her some good discipline. Done.

Okay? That's one example of how public discipline

can go on. It doesn't necessarily have to happen

right there. It should be, you've got to determine.

So here's another thing. I remember, again, my

own life where mom, it was one of those days.

That was the day I think I got a million spankings.

And it started when we were out. And I don't

think mom spanked me when we were out, but I

got it when I got home. But I was old enough

that I knew what had happened. So it wasn't like

I'm going to forget what went on, okay? I don't

know how old I was, four, five, six, but I remember

to this day. And so those things that happen

in public, if the child is old enough to be like,

you need to stop, and when we get home, you're

already getting one spanking for this. If you

persist, you're going to get another one. And

they're old enough, they understand, they're

not going to forget. That's fine to deal with

it when you get home then. But when you've got

these little... Little babies or these one -year

-olds, again, it's been so many years, maybe

two, I don't know, where you're thinking, are

they really going to remember what all happened

here in the store by the time we get home? Am

I going to remember? Then you probably need to

give them a good swat right there and just be

done with it. Now, if it persists and, you know,

it becomes a big ordeal and there's a battle

on your hands, well, then maybe you need to leave

and deal with that battle elsewhere. Okay? That's

fine. I think there's wisdom there. We're not

going to fight our big battles with our kid being

rebellious right there in the store. And so we're

going to take it out of the car, deal with it

there, and if it persists when we get home, we're

going to deal with it some more. Okay? Whatever's

needed there. But there's nothing wrong with

giving your little kid a good swat in the store,

at the ball fields, here at church. You know?

Whatever. Again, so often if we're dealing with

these things at home, when we go out, it is not

that big a deal usually. Again, I'm not saying

never, but normally it's not that big a deal.

We don't have to deal with it a whole lot out

in public. So again, I think age determines a

lot of that. Does a child need to cry when you

spank them? Generally speaking, I'm going to

say yes. I say that's generally the case. 99

.9 % of the time, they're better reaching tiers.

If you're a little toddler or you're a little

crawler, okay, when you're first starting out,

do they need to cry when you're squatting? No.

They just need to know, boy, I didn't like that.

What's going on here? It's new, right? And so

it's a beginning part of training. It's not really

much discipline going on. That's training. But

then as time goes on, and you know, they know.

They know exactly. They've been trained now,

right? They know don't touch whatever. The Christmas

ornaments. Don't touch the remote. Don't pull

Kleenexes out of the Kleenex box. I mean, you

name it. Whatever it is, right? And they're still

doing it. Then there should be some crying involved.

There should be some crying when you're disciplining

them. Because you're not training now, you're

disciplining. For rebellion. For disobedience.

Give that kid a good swat. And so crying should

be there. But it better not be angry crying.

Okay? I think I talked about that. That's attitude.

So you should, as a parent, know when your kid

is crying because they're hurt and when they're

mad. How dare you tell me no? I want that thing,

and I'm throwing a fit now. That's another spanking.

All right? It's not okay. So crying because my

feelings are hurt and it hurt, okay, good. That's

what we want. Crying because they're mad, I'm

hurt and I'm mad, that's different. And you should

be able to see the difference. And they're doing

it now. All you parents, they're doing it now.

They're old enough to exert their will in that

way. They're crying because they're mad. Know

it and deal with it. It's not okay to get a spanking

and then for the next 15 minutes be crying. You

get a spanking and it's going to hurt and they're

going to cry. And you're sitting there with them

and you're comforting them. You're saying, okay,

it's all right. I forgive you. I love you. All

right, settle down now. Settle down and let's

talk about this. Okay, and... And they settle

down. You got a few minutes there. If it's just

a persistent wailing and just won't quit, what

is that? That's just more rebellion. That's another

spanking. That's what that is. They have the

self -control to calm down. They do. And it should

be expected. So it's calm down. We talk. We hug.

We tell each other we love each other. You tell

me you're sorry. I tell you I forgive you. I

love you. Let's not do that anymore. Let's go

play. Whatever we were doing. Let's go finish

eating dinner. Whatever it was that set the whole

thing off. If it's screaming and yelling and

incessant crying, it's another spanking. You

either stop your crying right now, or you will

get another spanking. And when it persists, they

get another spanking. And then if it persists

some more, it's going to be another spanking.

Now you have to keep in mind, the more pain there,

it's going to take a little bit longer to calm

down, but they will. They may be sitting there

doing their best, and you can tell, okay, they're

trying. Let them calm down, okay? But you've

got to deal with that. That's, again, rebellion.

So there should be crying. Bruising from spanking.

I don't remember ever bruising my kids from spanking.

Again, the one swat, the one good swat is not

going to leave a bruise. If you've got some kind

of a club or something like that that you're

spanking with, yes, you'll bruise them. You shouldn't

be using that, okay? So generally speaking, you

shouldn't be bruising your children when you're

spanking them. That shouldn't be happening. If

that's happening, you're probably not doing something

right. You need to ask for some help. Dad spanking

when he gets home. I think I had mentioned this.

So mom's dealt with kids all day, and she said

when dad gets home, you're getting a spanking.

Why? It's not for the same thing. It's for the

continued rebellion. So when dad gets home, if

you get another spanking because you've continually

been rebellious all day and mom has told you,

now dad is going to also deal with your rebellion

when he gets home because you've not submitted

to your mother. We're not spanking because you

got a spanking because you yelled at mom and

you've got a spanking. and you've been forgiven,

and then dad gets home and he's going to spank

you for yelling at mom. That's not how that works.

We're not spanking twice for the same thing.

We're spanking when dad gets home because the

rebellion still has not been dealt with. You're

still being strong -willed. So we're not spanking

for the same sin, so to speak. Double punishment.

Dad dealing with the kids when he gets home.

So separately then, when dad gets home, he's

the authority. He deals with the kids. You dads,

when you get home, it's not break time. Now it's

family time. Now mom gets a break. At least from

the kids. From dealing with you kids. Right?

Dad's the authority. Dad's the example. He's

the leader. And so... He now is stepping in and

relieving mom and enforcing everything mom has

enforced all day. He's enforcing it just the

same. So dads, when you get home, your time is

just beginning. Now you're done working at work.

You're working at home until they're in bed and

sleeping. I want to say this before I forget.

You need to be aware of what's going on in your

home. I don't know how many times, and not just

at home, everywhere, okay? You need to be aware

of your children. So when we're here at the meeting,

when you're at a friend's house, when you're

at a ball game, when you're at home, don't turn

a blind eye. And act like I didn't see that.

Because if I see that, I've got to deal with

it. Surely we know what I'm talking about here.

We've seen the parents where, how did they not

see what just went on here? Am I the only one

that realizes little Johnny has just been a terror

to his mom, to his brother, to whomever. And

dad is sitting there as if... He doesn't see

a thing. And you're like, how is that possible?

That's sin. You're in sin. Because you have neglected

the discipline of your child. You are in sin

in that case. Do not do it. And if you are that

oblivious, wake up. Okay? That's all I can tell

you. Wake up and engage in your children's lives.

Because if everyone sees it but you and you get

home and your wife says, didn't you see that?

No, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Then you better wake up. I don't know how else

to say it. You better be aware of your children.

That's your responsibility. Okay? It's complete

and utter laziness and incompetence. If you think

about a job, if you're the boss on a job and

you're totally oblivious to everybody else doing

their job and nothing's getting done right or

it's getting done wrong, what happens? You get

fired. But yet in our homes, men think it's okay

to be utterly oblivious to everything going on

around me and not to deal with these things.

That's sin. It's laziness. It's incompetence.

Deal with it and pay attention. If that means

you've got to make a conscious effort to keep

an eye on him, or her, then you better do it.

It is necessary. I use the term bend and break

will. I use them pretty much synonymous. I'm

not trying to make a distinction there. Breaking

their will is probably what I really mean. Their

will needs to be conformed to your will. Or not.

And every kid is different, right? I mean, there

are some children who are just naturally more,

what's the word, willing to do what they're told

or to follow mom and dad's instruction. They're

not going to rebel, so to speak. They really

want to please. And if you want to think of that

as bending their will to yours, fine. That's

fine. But again, it's a... making their will

yours. And if you think of it in regards of a

rebellious child, a self -willed child, you've

got to break that will. You've got to make it

so that their will now is doing what you say.

Again, it's the same as our will with the Lord's.

Our will should be conformed to his will. Not

my will, but thine, Jesus said. All of Jesus'

example was he came to do the will of the Father,

right? His will, they were the same. That's what

we want with our children. And that means that

self -will, that rebellion, that obstinance has

got to be put down and broken in those children.

Discipline for wrong attitude was another one.

I mentioned, I talked about this, but somebody

said, you know, I think it was, you know, you

can't look into the child's heart and see if

they really have the right attitude, the right

heart in this issue. And that's not our goal.

I mean, that is our goal. It's not, we can't

do that. We can't look inside of them and say,

I think there's some rebellion in there. I can't

see it on the outside, but I think it's on the

inside. that's not what we're dealing with. We're

dealing with that outward attitude, that outward

rebellion that we see and know. We can't change

their heart. The Lord has to do that. And so

we're dealing with that outward. When we see

it outwardly, that's what we're dealing with.

We're not being like, I really don't think you're

still, I still think you're not obeying from

the heart, and so I'm going to give you another

spanking. No, that's not what we're doing. It

should be clear and obvious. If it's not clear,

then we can't spank them for it because we can't

see inside their heart. But we can see their

outward actions. The last thing here then is,

is there a promise or a guarantee that the rod

results in obedient children? And I would say

no. that we cannot guarantee that. I don't think

that Scripture gives us this guarantee that if

we do these things, we are guaranteed this outcome.

Everything that we do is reliant upon, we are

relying upon the Lord. We are trusting in faith

that what we do, He will honor. But our will

is not always the Lord's will. What we want is

not what the Lord will. Is going to do is what

I'm trying to say there. We don't know. And so

the Lord brings different things into our lives

for different reasons. And sometimes that is

a rebellious child. And we've done everything

that we can according to the word of God. We've

tried to be obedient and faithful in all of those

things. And the Lord does not always give us

those things. And so I cannot sit here and say

there is a guarantee. That your children, if

you do everything perfectly, that you're guaranteed

certain things. We're not guaranteed our children's

salvation, right? I mean, it's all in the hands

of the Lord. And so we do these things, trusting

Him, relying upon Him, that He will do what is

good and right and best in all situations. That's

all the questions that I was given. Unless I

accidentally forgot to write one down. But I

think that was all of them. In all of these things,

there is much need for prayer and for wisdom.

Raising children is a difficult task. It is heartbreaking

at times. Greatly encouraging at times. It requires

the help of the Lord. The encouragement of the

Lord. And so seek Him in all of these things.

Study His Word. See what you find there. That's

your light. That's your guide. The Proverbs are

a great place. Again, there's all sorts of other

examples of discipline and instruction in the

Word of God. Proverbs is just one place. So,

press on. You're just starting out. And it's

difficult. But I can say, as I'm sure most can,

it's a wonderful thing. I mean, my childhood

was great. Raising kids was great. I thought

the Lord really blessed. And, you know, children

are a blessing from the Lord. And so enjoy it.

Be diligent in it. Persevere in it. Seek Him

through it all. Amen.