The Way of Jesus 12.0

Well, as Dale mentioned, this morning, we are going to.

I'm gonna speak for a little bit.

I've got a good friend, Robin Cullen's gonna come, we're gonna have a bit

of a chat, which is gonna be good.

but also just recognizing

today, father's Day, is not always the easiest day, for, for us.

We've all got a dad.

you wouldn't be sitting

here if you didn't have a,

a physical father.

and so we all carry

different experiences of that.

And if today's like really hard, and it was actually tough

for you to come to church this

morning for various.

reasons and that whatever

your story is, I just wanna let you know that, you're in a safe

place today.

and, my prayer today for

you, if this is a struggle, struggle kind of day, is that you would know

that you're not alone in this today.

that we're, we're

standing with you today, and we're standing

with you in the midst of that, as Dale's already boldly talked about,

is that you would move from a place of where this wound dynamic.

Actually begins to move towards a place of freedom for your heart.

I've always been really expected on father's days.

I'm not sure what happens on a father's day, but there seems to be always a

heightened sense of, the surgeon, his name is Jesus, doing heart surgery

in different ways.

And so if, if you experience that today, it's alright.

Yeah,

it's gonna be okay.

he's a good surgeon,

he's a good father and he's got good things for us, his kids, which is good.

lastly, yeah, we've got, we've got Sausage sizzles.

So Happy Father's Day.

Everyone.

Everyone.

Happy Father's Day Fathers who are here.

Very good.

Got a key scripture for this morning.

It's First Corinthians chapter

four, verses 15 and 16.

it's got a short scripture,

and it reads like this.

This is Paul speaking to his beloved Corinthian church.

Okay?

This is a church he's been a part of and he is giving some instruction.

He's actually giving a little bit of warning as well, and he says, for many

have countless instructors in Christ, but you don't have many fathers For I became a

father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Therefore, I urge you to imitate me.

Definitely a very short scripture and very much we can sort of get

caught up in just reading this in isolation and we shouldn't.

We should do our very best to understand the context which he's speaking into, and

he is speaking into a church who's gone through some troubled times, a church

who's looks to other things other than the work of Jesus on the cross to help

them gain a sense of security identity.

And so Paul's statement here, he has become your father means that for

the Corinthian church, he was the one who first spoke the gospel into

their hearts and led them to Jesus by the preaching of the gospel to them.

And Paul uses this metaphor of like father children to describe the unique

role in their lives that he plays.

And while there are many teachers, while there are many guides and some

translations use the word guardians.

In Christ only.

Paul brought the Corinthians to Faith 'cause he was the first one who

shared and when they first received the gospel and became believers.

And so this is why he claims this special kind of formative relationship with them.

And it's just to be clear, it's especially when you've had maybe a history of

church in various forms, this role Father is

not a title.

In, in essence, it's not a title, but it's explaining this profound

connection and responsibility.

So Paul's not

asking to be called ti father, like some sort

of religious title.

He's simply using the image of spiritual parenthood to convey love,

to convey concern, responsibility for their spiritual development, which is

similar to a parent nurturing a child.

And the metaphor also shows Paul's authority among them.

He simply uses this idea of authority as a means of, of guiding

and admonishing, encouraging and not shaming or dominating them.

And in contrast, there's other leaders within the Corinthian

church, other teachers like Apollos and Peter, but only Paul kind of

fathered this church.

the old language might

be that only Paul was the one who begot this church.

Paul's father relationship informs how he corrects, how he teaches, how he loves.

The Corinthian church, like a parent committed to the

wellbeing of their children.

Paul admonishes them so they can mature in the faith, desiring for them to follow

Paul as an example, to follow the way of Jesus as Paul follows the way of Jesus.

It highlights this unique role of spiritual fathers in the Christian.

Journey of maturity by contrasting that to the more numerous guides and instructors

and many believers have access to teaching, especially in 2025, we have the

access to the most information in human history information, however, is still

leaving our society anxious and fearful.

And so information is not necessarily the antidote here, but

Paul is saying that it's not just having access to teaching, but.

There's a, a few as fewer experiences of nurturing relationships by spirit,

spiritual parents who walk among others, helping them grow in Christ.

So true Christian develop development.

True Christian growing as a follower of Jesus is more than just instruction.

It actually requires investment, relational investment,

correction, modeling love.

All of which are hallmarks of spiritual fatherhood, as Paul would describe

here, just as a ma child matures through the attentive care of parents.

We mature through relationships that help, that encourage, and

that sometimes correct in love.

See the way of Jesus is to do what he sees the father doing.

So Jesus was interested in what the Father was doing, his father was doing.

And the way Jesus sees the father is not through gaining

information from the father.

Like the father every day is giving him a newspaper to read

with some information in it.

This is what I want you to do today.

But the way Jesus connected with his father was at an intimate, heartfelt level

based through this posture of prayer.

And he says, anyone who's seen me has seen the father, John 14, nine, showing

that his very life on earth was to reveal the father's nature, the father's

character, and the father's priorities.

He lived to do the father's will, and that was shaped by the father's love for him.

Now, on the other side of the coin of this idea of spiritual fathers is, I'm

not sure how to put it, but how to be sons and daughters so you can have an

amazing spiritual father in your life where they're giving of themselves,

encouraging you in love and correction.

But it's just as important to posture yourself as a spiritual son

or daughter who's ready to actually receive from this spiritual father.

So it's not directly just like one way street kind of land.

It's actually a two way

street.

And so part of, having a spiritual

father in your life, it's you learning how to be actually

a spiritual son or daughter.

But there's several barriers that kind of.

Discourage affect our capacity to position ourselves as spiritual sons and daughters.

And I want to go through two barriers today before I get Robin up to

share with us and a few questions.

So the first barrier to positioning yourself as a son or daughter.

The first one is impersonal information.

And I, I've kind of already touched on this already, but teaching alone without

relational context leaves believers with knowledge but not transformation.

As they lack real life examples and accountability.

So you know that difference between, you could listen to 6,000 podcasts a

week, but you're not actually walking with other people who have the same

desire to follow Jesus as you do.

See, Jesus didn't give them podcast lists to listen to

sending them a bunch of URL links.

What he said was, come here and walk with me.

Be with me and I'll show you.

There was this proximity.

So knowledge and information.

Yeah.

Well, they're good to have and don't we have a lot of it, but we still have

the highest amount of anxiety and fear.

We lack living examples to show us, for us to visually see how

to walk out this information that we've currently got with integrity.

And wisdom actually that wis, that word wisdom is an interesting word,

that we have a lot of knowledge, but we don't have a lot of wisdom.

Wisdom is the application of knowledge, so we don't need more knowledge.

Have you noticed, knowledge actually says it in the word of God.

It says Knowledge puffs up actually makes you feel like you got it all together.

But what we actually need is wisdom and an application of how

to live out that knowledge that we have when we see a person.

Witnessing to what it is to live out that knowledge, especially when it's

motivated through love, then it actually is the thing that can transform us.

When it's only about information, we can tend to drift towards that.

The goal is actually to be right.

I've got the right information, and that's the wrong information.

That's not the goal.

The goal is to know the father.

This is eternal life that you would know God.

And for some of you, I don't know where your spiritual journey is

at, but I wanna let you know today this is not coming to church.

Experience of church is not about having more information about God,

but it's actually to know him.

And one of the main conduits that God the father has set up as a kingdom

principle is that we would have proximity to spiritual fathers who would

not just tell us information but be.

The father's heart in flesh and blood before us.

That's really good, Adam.

Yeah, thanks.

So when we have many guides or instructors just giving information, providing

diverse and sometimes conflicting interpretations, it can lead to confusion

and fragmentation, making it harder and harder to live out this life of truth.

This disperses our focus away from the unified love and truth of the

father, making it harder for us to experience God's consistent heart.

You might have to listen to the podcast again to get what I'm trying to say there.

It's pretty, it's pretty deep.

It's pretty heavy.

I get it.

It's okay.

Next one.

Number two, isolation.

Isolation is the next barrier.

So without someone invested in our spiritual journey, we can

feel isolated and unsupported, making it harder to persevere

through trials or correct errors.

So the way with I like to think about this idea of isolation is

the difference between being a legal child and a relational child.

So let's just keep it on the idea of sonship for a minute.

You can be a legal son or you can relate be a relationally known son.

There's an old story by Thomas Godwin in the 17th century.

I feel like I've said this story a thousand times.

I'll just keep saying it 'cause it's just so damn good.

So this is a, A guy, he's a pastor and he's actually just taking a

walk and he sees another father walking down the street with his son.

Who's walking alongside him, and suddenly this father sweeps his son

up into his arms, hugs him and kiss him, and tells this boy he loves him.

And then after a minute, he puts the boy, boy back down on the street,

and then they continue to walk along.

The question is, was this little boy more of a son in the father's arms than he was

when he was down walking on the street?

Objectively and legally, right?

There was no difference.

Yeah, but subjectively and experientially there is all the difference

in the father's arms.

The boy was experiencing sonship, and when we experienced sonship, daughtership,

the question of who we are is being answered at an experiential level,

at a heartfelt level, we are his.

It's like in those moments, the kiss of we need the kiss of heaven to

confirm who we legally are in God.

Just in case you missed it, we are legally children of God.

'cause we believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, his

ascension in the right hand of God.

We believe in that and God has given us the gift of sonship, daughtership,

and the spirit of God wants to come as well into that moment and give us the

kiss of heaven just to let us know.

Ah, it's an intimate place, but he wants us to know that you are loved,

that you experience that, that position of sonship and daughtership otherwise.

You are walking around with an orphan spirit.

You're walking around where you actually don't know who you are or whose you are,

because our deepest need is to feel seen.

In the midst of our brokenness, in the midst of our weakness, in the midst

of us getting it wrong all the time, we need to be seen in all the fullness

of who we are as broken human beings.

And yet loved, oh, that's what it is to be seen.

Not this pseudo knowledge of who you are, this depth of feeling that

you are seen in, in all your crap.

But he says, I love you.

Oh, that's what it is to be truly seen, and that's what the

Father's heart is towards you today, in case you didn't know,

and spiritual fathers are meant to put flesh on this.

Make it visible.

So I've got this good friend of mine, his

name's Kieran Burn, and he's got this story

about his dad.

And a year ago he told me this and a year ago I've been sitting

on it waiting to tell it 'cause it's just utterly brilliant.

And I had to ask him again this week, say, can I tell that story?

Sort of a bit scared that he would say no, but he said yes.

So that's great.

So when Kieran was a little lad, he was at school and Kieran made this plaster

scene letter P. What color was it?

It was a mix.

It was a blur of, of, of plaster scene mess.

Was it?

And then what happens is you make a letter P and you put it in the oven

and it like it hardens kind of thing.

And he gave it to his dad.

Was it Father's Day?

Yeah, father's Day.

And so Keira and his little boy, his dad takes his briefcase out

and pops it in his briefcase.

Right?

And you.

What

his name's Peter.

Peter Burn is Kieran Burn's dad.

Very good.

I did have that in my notes.

Sorry.

I got excited about the story.

So, you know the little pencil holder where you put the pins in

the briefcase and you lift it up?

He's got little P kind of poking in there a little bit.

And so then.

Every day passes.

You know, he is gone to work, takes his briefcase with his

lunch in it, and then, he gets home and he

and Peter puts his briefcase down and little Kieran comes up and regularly he

would open the briefcase just to check whether the P was still in the briefcase.

This is beautiful.

If you're not picking up what I'm putting down here, let me make it even clearer.

The image is so profound that at the deepest level of the human heart, we

need to continually check into the father's briefcase to see if we are

still held in the father's heart.

How good is that?

I was weeping when he told me this because we all need that.

We all need to be able to look into the father's heart and go.

Am I still seen?

Am I still known?

Am I still loved?

Am I still cared for?

Prayer is literally every day coming to the Father's briefcase and looking

in and going, am I still wanted?

Am I still beloved?

Ah, we can go home now.

That was so good.

Thank you, Kieran.

But then I'm telling him this story.

Well, he's telling me this story like this week and then he starts telling me about,

it's a bit of a burn story at the moment.

So sorry.

Burn Family.

Callum's over here, his brother.

And, so Kieran's telling me

this little story, I have to.

I don't

think Callum knew this story when I asked him about this yesterday,

because he hadn't talked yet.

So it's hot off the press, this story.

Right?

And so they had a, a father son camp and little Finn went to

the father son camp, with, with dad Call in, at the paddock,

right?

And Kean asked Finn 'cause his uncle, uncle Kieran, Kieran asked

Finn, Finn, what'd you, what was the best thing about the camp?

And they did some cool stuff about it.

Remember Finn's five?

Okay.

Finn was five years old.

He's like, oh, like he was thinking, oh, we're gonna build bonfire, you

know, pull up all the twigs clown us.

This really simple thing where you just go into the bush somewhere,

gather wood and build a bonfire.

It's the best thing ever, right?

Anyway, he asked Finn, he said, what was the best thing?

He goes, oh, he stopped.

He's thinking hard.

He's a real deep thinker, Finn, and he's just like.

Oh, best thing was at one of the day, the days dad said he loved me.

And so I said I love him back.

And that was the best thing about the camp.

And I'm hearing this, I'm just like, I'm messing the corner.

You know, going, what the heck?

Oh yeah.

Finn, you're a champion.

You're leading me, brother.

Good.

You see, the thing is, um.

What, what all our hearts need is to know the father's love.

That's what our hearts need because it's, it's actually caught not taught,

which is a really important thing to say.

And we are saturated with a, a society of absent fathers, right?

And so for many of us, we carry these wounds because we haven't actually

seen the father's heart modeled to us.

For lots of different ways.

When a father makes themselves emotionally available to us, guess what happens?

Trust develops.

You lean in.

You lean in.

Actually, trust is such an important aspect to this journey because the

opposite, like in isolation, isolation actually breeds mistrust actually.

And, and in in essence, it breeds mistrust of authority.

So fear and rejection.

Of spiritual authority occurs because the heart misunderstands.

The heart can't trust.

'cause there's isolation and it can prevent a person you, it can prevent me

from opening up to this discipline that God wants to give you and I correction.

Care.

And if we don't trust, if we've got a closed heart, you know what happens

when the, when the father disciplines us, what happens is we, we interpret

that discipline mainly through the lens of shame and punishment

through the lens of, I love you, that's why I'm disciplining you.

And that lens is really important to get right, because God

disciplines those he loves.

That's what a good father does, right?

Hebrews 12, seven.

It talks directly into this endure hardship as discipline.

So it's even saying there's hard stuff in life.

You can interpret through the lens of God's love, but endure it.

This God is treating you as his children.

For what?

Children are not disciplined by their father.

Question.

So if you're not disciplined and everyone goes through discipline,

then you're not legitimate.

You're not true sons and daughters at all.

So the discipline of God in your life is actually a sign that you

are legitimately a child of God.

But are you looking at it through the lens of shame and punishment, judgment,

or are you looking at it through the lens of this is how much he loves me?

Oh man, this is good preaching.

Adam.

Thank you.

It's not about me, sorry.

It's about Jesus and his father heart for us.

So what is it to be a son or daughter?

Three seemingly simple things that are most difficult to comprehend.

Understand the father's character, his goodness, his love, plus his correction.

His truth is how we understand the father's character, trusting

his character, surrendering to his character and they're actually in order.

'cause you can't surrender unless you trust and you can't trust

unless you understand who he is.

And if you're struggling to get that, it just means you're yet to receive the

father's love and taste it for yourself.

'cause once you've tasted it, you'll be like, oh, I'm so willing to surrender.

'cause he is so trustworthy.

He's so good.

I have a few spiritual fathers in my life and one of them, I'll introduce

you in just a second, but before I do,

there's another one.

and some of you have

met him.

His name is Pastor Daniel Ho and he's over at Kingdom

Light down the road.

he is just a legend

and sometimes he takes me out to lunch and, and many years ago he asked me,

Adam, how does Jesus measure success?

I went, oh, okay.

I don't know.

He caught me.

It wasn't, I wasn't, didn't, I wasn't prepared for the question.

Welcome to being a spiritual father.

That's good.

And he says, do you think it's to do with

bigger, better, faster?

that doesn't sound

right.

That's not bigger, better, faster.

So success for Jesus was to do the will of the one who sent him success for Jesus

was just to do the will of the Father.

Jesus only did what he saw the father doing.

Now, here's what's interesting, is the dissemination of information,

spiritual fathering, no, it's in part.

It's part of it, but here's what happened.

Now I'm hanging with this guy week after week for a season, and I'm starting to

see the things he gets excited about.

I'm starting to think, see the things that he's getting stirred up

about and he's not getting stirred up about bigger, better, faster.

Do you understand what I mean?

What he is getting stirred up is about the small infinitesimally,

small little things that the Lord is up to and he, it's his best day.

It's his greatest joy, and I'm watching this and guess what it's doing?

It's forming me to see success, not in bigger, better, faster, but in.

He's just so excited just to do the little things in the will of the father.

And that was what was what made his day.

That's exciting, isn't it?

What is that?

That's forming, that's forming me.

It's forming those around him.

And the funny thing is he doesn't even know he is doing it.

It's not, he goes, oh, I'm a spiritual father, so I'm gonna do this and got

my little schedule and checklist.

No, he just breathes and suddenly he is that.

So today I'm gonna have a

conversation with, Robin Cullen, or some

would call him

Reverend Dr. Robin Cullen.

he and his wife,

Pearl are here with us today.

Robin is, he's a lecturer and he, he was a consultant at Melbourne University.

He was the principal of Table BOA College.

Robin has been a minister for get this

48 years.

Him and I, serve together in a

group, a team that encourage unity in

the body of Christ, what we call geo networks.

Through wa he continues to be a a what we might frame it as a city father.

So someone in our city who, who carries

that father heart and who just bleeds the

father heart

on others.

Um.

And, he does that in Perth.

He does that a little bit beyond Perth.

I think you go up to Robo Born Burn every so often near Kartha.

He's got a heart for that.

you know how I like to give good hugs?

No.

No one knows I give good hugs, okay?

I don't give good hugs.

But if you want a good hug, you go and see Robin and he'll give you the greatest

hug you've ever had in your life.

The father's heart just oozes out of this guy.

Um.

And so, yeah, I want you just to welcome Robin as he comes up.

I've got some chairs here.

How does this look?

Does this look comfortable?

Yes.

He really wanted just to have a chat here, like just him and me.

So we're gonna just ignore y'all.

Ignore you guys.

Is that okay?

So Robin's had 48 years of like preaching the word, and when I said

to him, can we do an interview?

He's like, oh, I haven't done many interviews.

I don't really say yes to interviews.

So I'm stoked today that I get to have

an interviews time, with Robin.

One of

the things that I have asked a little bit about others who know Robin

is, Robin has this dynamic where.

and I've heard this multiple times from multiple people unsolicited.

His, the comment is, I know my name is safe in Robin's mouth.

And even just telling you that and then watching that lived out, spiritual

father, you hear what I'm saying?

Like this is not an information session.

This is about, I'm gonna ask him some questions, but my

prayer is that the father heart just kind of bleeds on you all.

Everyone say y'all.

Thank you.

It's a plural view.

Everybody okay?

So Robin, say hello to everyone.

Hi.

So Robin, tell us a little bit

about your background, your family, your

personal life.

Tell us a little bit.

Well, tell, tell me a little bit about your personal life.

just very quickly, born in New Zealand.

I had wonderful, godly parents.

what they said and what they did always lined up.

Wow.

And to me that was tremendous.

They were very loving and very strict and a lot of, boundaries

in the home taught me a lot.

I had three brothers and one sister.

I was third in that line of five, so that's where I fitted.

I was born again, at a Christmas camp

convention

when I was about 11.

some folks from Australia came over to, where we lived in Hastings

and, and we had this great camp convention in Napier, and I really

felt God pulling at my heartstrings and as I was born, again, I think

nothing, not much changed in my

life at that point.

but at 16, at a youth

camp.

So I think camps are so wonderful.

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and that's when things really

began to change in my life.

But at, at 15, when I was 15, my dad had been called into pastoral ministry.

And so, we had moved, moved away, to New Plymouth and so lived there for a while.

At

17, I went to uni at, in Christchurch

to study civil engineering.

And at 21 I married Valerie, and for one year I went on staff in the civil

engineering department of the uni

where I'd studied.

And I ended up doing a

PhD at Nottingham

University of Nottingham, and then coming back

south to lecture at Monash University in Melbourne.

Um.

I was there for nine years, but I just couldn't run fast enough to get

away from the call of God on my life.

And I finally submitted to him and went into pastoral

ministry when I was 33.

Valerie and I had three

children, and we passed it in Victoria, south Australia, and then in wa.

And I've been here for most of the last 46 years.

A couple of stints, itinerant

ministry, one of them, located out of

Victoria.

And then I did 10 years at table College, went as

principal and, and, stayed 10 years.

And, then in 2007, Valerie

went home to be with Jesus, and the Lord graciously gave me

pearl, who's here with me today?

She had lost her husband to cancer some years before, and

we married at end of 2008.

So that's it.

Between us, we have seven children.

17, well, almost 17 grandchildren.

I think there's a couple, almost, almost here, and two great-grandchildren.

Wow.

What a story.

By the way, can we just give him, encourage him just for a sec. Come on.

It's fascinating to me how telling one's story that it contains within it.

Obvious lessons about choice, longevity, faithfulness, how some of that just

oozes out, even though you didn't say on these things specifically.

Do you know what I mean?

How old are you today, Robin?

Can I ask,

am I in trouble now?

In almost four weeks I'll be 85.

85. Robin, I've, I've had a lower back issue for a lot of my life,

and Robin, every time we, I talk about my back, he then begins to

explain to me how good his back is,

and he's got these stretching things he does, and he can just

bend himself into all sorts of.

Amazing things, and I just, he's 84.

Yeah.

But I feel like 94 like next to him.

Robin, thank you for sharing, for

sharing that.

And, the, where I want to

go now is kinda looking back over that journey as a, as a father, one of the

things that I remember being asked once, and I wasn't really prepared for

the answer, so I hadn't given a lot of thought of that in the moment, but.

Like what is it to be a man of God?

And when I was asked this question, they actually said, Adam, can you give me

three attributes that make a man of God?

Mm. And I remember that sort of haunting me, and it actually came

back to my remembrance like a week and a half ago when I asked you about

this and thinking that's such a.

A such a powerful question because we bring our experiences to bear when

we answer those sorts of questions.

So if I had to ask you, Robin, what would be the three things

you would point to, that would def defines

a man of God?

Yeah, when I first started

to think about that, I thought of things

like,

integrity and.

having servant hood,

having a servant heart and things like that, but I, I thought now I've gotta

drill down a bit deeper than that.

Mm. And,

you know how the, real estate agent tells

you if you say, what's the most important thing about looking

for a house you wanna buy or

an investment, it's, location, location,

location.

And I thought, well, the three most important things that I can think

of about becoming a man of God is to fear God, to fear God, and to

fear God.

Hmm.

And you know, Proverbs

nine and verse 10 says, the fear of the Lord is the

beginning of wisdom and, knowledge of the holy

is understanding.

And you can't separate those two things.

I mean, the knowledge of the holy is actually

what brings you the, understanding of the

knowledge of the holy is what can bring you to a, a, a proper biblical

understanding of the fear of the Lord.

And, um.

I remember last year seeing something on YouTube where John Bevere, many of

you will have heard of John Bevere,

but John Bevere was, being asked about, a con, a meeting with

Jim Bakker.

Now, most of the congregation here, probably not old enough to, to know

about Jim Bakker, but in the eighties,

the 1980s, that is.

last century, Jim

Bakker was probably the most notable evangelist in the

world.

Televangelist, a huge empire actually, that he built.

really loved God.

It

was very clear he was, he was a very good evangelist and

he really loved God.

and he ended up committing

adultery and.

Getting a 45 year jail sentence for male fraud.

It was later commuted, commuted to five years, but started off 45 years When

he's in jail, he reads a book by John

Bevere and he gets, somehow in contact

with John Bevere and wants to talk to him.

So John goes into the

prison, talks to him, and he's talking to Jim

Bakker and he says, at one stage he said, Jim.

All these incredible things were happening in your ministry.

He said, at what stage did you fall out of love with Jesus?

And Jim Bakker says, I never did.

I never fell out of love with, I'm still in love with Jesus.

He said, my problem is that I didn't fear God.

And I thought that's, absolutely a powerful, shining a light.

On

what happens.

And I think that

when we begin to understand that he's a holy God, and, and that, that sort of

ties in with our understanding of the fear of God, that all we, what we see

and what we know is it is a bit like, you know, sometimes you're, you're, uh.

Outside and, and there's cloud everywhere, but you see a shaft of

light come down through the cloud and, and the sun illuminates an area.

But, you know, 999 thousandths of the, of the earth is not illuminated.

And I think our understanding of God's holiness is like that.

We, we might get a glimpse of it, but it's really only a glimpse.

And, and those people who say.

And they do.

Yeah.

My understanding of the fear of God is it's a deep respect and I think,

you know, that person actually doesn't know the difference between

a hand grenade and an atomic bomb

because the fear of God and the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Mm. And I don't think you can be a man of God until you come to the

place where you understand a little bit, at least about the fear of God.

I suppose the second thing that I

would throw in there, is a kind of balance

to that, and that is knowing who I am in God, my identity, knowing that God loves

me, because if I don't know that God loves me, I cannot handle the fear of God.

Mm.

Because, you know, John says, it, it, we don't have any fear of judgment.

It's not a fear of judgment.

It is something that,

a, a biblical fear of God is something that's sort of way outside our, our

really our normal understanding of

what fear is.

And, you know, John, John Baptist.

sorry.

John the Apostle

was the closest disciple to Jesus laid his head on his breast.

He's, he's known to be Jesus' closest friend and they knew a

love relationship between them.

But when John has the revelation of Jesus as the son of God, the Alpha

and Omega John, who's walked with Jesus intimately for three years.

Knows him as his closest friend.

When John actually sees Jesus in his glory, it's,

it's such an explosive revelation that he falls on his face as one dead

and, and I think.

Yeah, I don't know how you can be and grow as a man of God until you

come to the place of knowing the fear of the Lord, because you understand

a little, like I said, a tiny little bit of the holiness of God,

of who he is.

And, there's a book by Tozer called and, the understanding of

the holy, if you wanna start somewhere,

it's

a, it's a

great

book.

Very challenging.

Thank you, Robin.

That was great.

If we can stay on that sort of holiness identity space for you in

your following of Jesus, how has that shaped, how has that shaped you?

How has that affected you?

The fear of the Lord matched with the identity of Jesus?

How has that, how

has that shaped you?

um.

Because that's

not without effect, right?

Because if you see it That's right.

You cannot be, you cannot be not changed by that or affected by that.

Jesus said, if you

wanna follow me, you have to take it, be cross and follow me.

And I think that he's actually talking about dying to self and.

You know when, when Isaiah saw the Lord high and lifted up in the temple, it

again, it was such an explosive reality to him that he, in the words of the

message, he says, doom, doom, I'm doomed.

Right?

He sees God and, and the reality is that he's, when he sees God.

Yeah.

As he is, as he really is, he sees himself as he really is,

and he says, I'm, I'm undone.

I'm a, I'm a man of, yeah, what was it?

Unclean lip man of unclean lips and, and from a people of unclean lips.

And, but what happens then is so important because the angel takes a

coal from off the altar and he puts it on his lips and says, you're cleansed.

You are cleansed and, and your sins are taken away.

And, and the thing is that what God does through that action of

the angel is to reveal to Isaiah not how he actually is and how he

sees himself in the light of God's glory, but how God sees him cleansed.

Cleansed.

So.

It is

this, I, I suppose,

it's dying to self.

It's recognizing that who I am, sinful, broken, whatever, and, and when, when

the Holy Spirit challenges me about issues, that's when I have to respond.

Mm. And died self.

That's the way of the cross.

And I think that's repentance.

Yeah.

' cause you know, I think repentance is when I realize, because I often don't,

when I realize that I'm walking away from the father with my back to him,

not listening to him going my own way.

And the Holy Spirit convicts me and you know, immediately.

I turn around and begin to walk back to the father.

That's what I see as

repentance and, and, that's what changes

me.

I have to change.

I have to keep changing.

And it's only by dying to self,

that walking.

When you're repentant, you're walking back.

What, there's obviously a posture of humility that one must adopt.

Now it's easy to say, be humble, like.

Oh, humility.

Do it.

You know, like how did, what is your, how would you articulate, 'cause

we've all got parts of us that don't wanna walk back to the father, right?

We wanna walk the other way.

What is it that helps you kind of walk, like, turn and walk towards him?

What's, how do, how would you articulate that?

I think it's just coming back to the fact that of what you were saying before.

That the father's discipline is out of his love.

When, when I recognize that because he loves me, this is why

he's saying to me, come back home

'cause of his love.

Robin, you've had.

I would say a extraordinarily diverse life.

Mm-hmm.

From corporate engineering through to what we, what you now do.

You sort of like the corporate life, so to speak, and then there's this

loving people loving God journey.

Mm-hmm.

How have you been tempted to measure your life in terms of that thing I mentioned?

Like bigger, better, faster?

Mm-hmm.

Like measures of self success versus.

Like for just following Jesus and doing what you see the

father doing, so to speak.

yeah.

Good one.

Adam.

you, you're kind

of asking me to remember truthfully what I was like 60 years ago

and I probably, honestly don't

dunno.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's okay.

but I don't particularly

recall struggling with

those things much.

and I guess my dad's

influence on me is probably a

huge effect there, because he never, he

was never interested in a fame or

fortune at all.

And, that's interesting.

Something that's just come back to mind.

Uh.

Do you remember when we had the Perth Charismatic

Ministers Fellowship?

it's a long time ago now, isn't it?

And one morning this, this

young evangelist

had been invited to, come and talk to us.

And so

at the time I thought it was a little presumptuous 'cause he was

only about 19 or 20 or something.

But he talked to us about the girls, the

gold and the glory.

and I thought maybe

someone with a little more life experience would've, would've been

better equipped to talk to us about that.

Well, the sad thing about that was a few years later, his marriage

was broken and, and he was gone.

I think what you're saying about knowledge, knowledge,

knowledge doesn't help unless it's

applied in our lives.

what was your question?

Oh, just how, you know, how that, how that landscape of success and how,

how do you, how do you choose, how do you continually choose the path?

Yeah.

The way of Jesus.

Yeah.

In terms of how he's, he sees success.

Well, I know maybe I live in denial, but the only time I can recall something

coming close was when I was in Canada.

I was on 12 months sabbatical, leave from Monash and, um.

I was there to learn about rock engineering and so I'd been offered

this nice job by a consultant, probably one of the top rock

consultants in the world.

And so I had 12 months

there.

So near the end of our time, my wife and I got invited out by one of the

partners onto his half a million dollar luxury lot yacht for a six star

meal, and I was asked to think about becoming a, a partner in the firm.

And the offer was obviously

extremely generous, but I just couldn't settle

in my heart about that.

I did not have any peace in my heart about that.

I didn't really know why.

I think it was part of the time where I was really trying to run

away from the call of God on my life.

And so eventually I told them no and they

thought I was crazy.

but only a couple of

months later, I received a call from the church.

I was still in Canada, actually the church

back in Australia, inviting me to, to, come into ministry.

I dropped my salary

by two thirds, but, you know, you can't

run away from God forever.

It's interesting how the scripture says, live a life worthy of the calling.

That when the, it's sort like.

You know, what comes first?

Living a life of

worthy or the calling?

actually the calling

comes first.

Yeah.

It draws you, it, it beckons you and when you taste it, it's like the

best thing you've ever had or done or seen, or it's just so rewarding.

Mm-hmm.

That you can't then escape it because you then go, oh, actually

in response to this calling that I'm called to, I'm, I surrender.

I live a life worthy.

Of the calling

recognition's, one of the things you mentioned that, and I, I, I think perhaps

that's another matter.

I often have to repent

of wanting to be noticed or to be acknowledged or to have

someone's approval.

But, every time I think

the Holy Spirit reminds me, I can only have the glory by stealing it from

the one to whom it really belongs.

May we have hearts that see that,

Robert, as you bring us to a

close this morning.

the question, this

question varies in terms of where you are in life in your journey, but if I

was to say, oh, what's the one, what's the one legacy, what's the one thing.

But Robin, I've said, I've said a few things.

You know, my, my name is safe in Robin's mouth.

He's a

great hugger, you know?

what would be the one

thing that you would say, oh, I'd like to be known for this?

That's a

hard question.

Mm-hmm.

I think when I go,

I'd like to leave behind me a trail of people who.

Have been discipled to Jesus, not to me, and and who are

determined to be more like Jesus.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

So tempting, isn't it?

To make disciples of self or Yeah, make disciples of church.

We're not called to any of that.

Thank you.

Bless you.

How'd you go?

It was a good, good.

Went well.

I think so.

Gives Robin a big hand.

the way we're gonna

enter this morning is, um.

We're not gonna sing together 'cause I want to send you out to

enjoy one another's company and potentially ponder on some of the

things we've talked about today.

But I don't, I wanna ask

Robin to pray for us, in relationship to

the condition of our hearts that we would have open surrendered hearts.

Is that okay?

Pray that way.

Yeah.

And whatever else you feel the Lord leads you in.

Yeah.

Father, first of all, I want to thank you for Red Door Church and for Adam

and Dale and the leadership here

to be a lighthouse in the city, well known Lord.

But Father, it's not about earthly acclaim, it's about

what changes in people's hearts.

And I know for Adam and Dale that the only real reward that there is in ministry.

Is seeing lives changed,

and Father, you want to change us every day?

Lord, you wanna change us?

Your word says you wanna change us from one level of glory to another.

You want to reveal Jesus Christ through our lives.

You want us to walk out in the world as representatives of Jesus.

And so Father.

We ask you to change your hearts 'cause that's the only place

where real change happens.

As Adam has said, Lord, knowledge is one thing but doesn't change us.

You change us.

Father today, I think every one of us here in this room wants

you to change your hearts.

I want you to reveal yourself afresh to us.

Lord, we really haven't got the faintest idea of who you are.

As God.

We dip our toes in the water, as it were, and think we understand the ocean.

But Lord, reveal yourself to us, I pray.

Reveal yourself to us.

In all of your holiness and your power and your might

in all of your tenderness and love and grace and mercy and forgiveness

for as you reveal yourself to us Father, that will change our hearts.

And that's the cry that's within us this morning.

And we offer it to you in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Amen.

Very good.

Thank you my brother.

Thank you spiritual dad.

Give Robin another big hand.

Thank Kim.

Bring with us.