The Way of Jesus 23.0

Psalm 133 says, how good and pleasant it is with brothers dwell in unity.

It's like this oil in Mount Herman.

I'm not sure where that is, but it sounds good.

And it's running down the beard of Aaron and it's this, this

picture of God's presence.

That's and where, where this unity God commands a blessing.

And just over the course of this weekend where we've

done our love attack, weekend, which if you're

not sure what that is, it's essentially.

Our red door family being split up this

particular time across, 16 diff, 16 plus different churches.

not going to a local church to, compare not going to

a church to.

Criticize not

going to a church to, correct, but going

to a local church to see what Jesus is doing in that local community and to

encourage the work of the kingdom in

that local expression.

so that's happened

today and so there's a bit, today's a bit of an

extension of that idea.

we're in this series

that we've entitled, uncovering The Way of Jesus, and today I want to

submit to you that the way of Jesus,

is the way of unity.

the.

We're on part

23 of this series we're on, which is quite a long series, isn't

it, Wayne, would you think so?

I think so.

And you can, you can hear 23 parts and you can immediately think,

wow, that sounds very onerous.

Like the way of Jesus must be quite complicated if you've

gotta do it over 23 parts.

Very, oh, we are very thick.

'cause my wife likes to

remind me.

That's good.

but I think part of

the dynamic of when we consider the way of Jesus is we're

talking about the way of Jesus.

It's not a manmade effort, but it's actually

a spirit empowered, alignment to his ways,

to his wa, his his rule and reign his his direction.

And so when actually, when you're in the way of Jesus, it actually has an

element of ease about it.

and so, we're gonna

uncover a bit more of that today.

Um.

Very good.

So I wanna start with two scriptures, keeping in mind that the way

of Jesus is the way of unity.

Firstly, first Peter, chapter three, verse 18 says, Christ also suffered

once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous to bring us to God.

Don't miss that to bring us to God.

Two Corinthians 5 21.

God made the sinless Christ to be sin for us so that we might

become the righteousness of God.

As you ponder those two scriptures, I wanna just sit in your

heart this idea that Jesus, he values unity above being right.

You might need to ponder on that a bit more.

I'll probably say it a few times.

Jesus valued unity above being right, so, so Jesus valued.

His unity with you so much more than him forcing his rightness upon you

in order to get you close to God.

So what he could have done, you were so far from God that he could have

tried to force you to conform to the degree of holiness that he is.

And that, by the way, is an impossible task.

But he didn't force that dynamic.

What he says.

I actually value unity so much more that I'm actually gonna lay down my rightness.

What I mean by my rightness, like if there's anyone who was right to walk the

face of the earth, his name is Jesus.

If there's anyone who has the A capacity to force his

rightness on anyone, it's him.

And he didn't do that.

He did the exact opposite.

He actually laid down his rightness.

Let me reframe that for you.

He laid down his righteousness to make the unrighteousness the righteous for the

unrighteous, you and I to bring us to God.

What's bring us to God?

It's, it's unity.

It's unity with himself.

And so to reframe that again for you, Jesus values unity above being right.

To unify you with himself, but the significance of his work on the cross,

his death, his resurrection, was so significant, so effective that it wasn't

just unity with you and God, it was actually unity with you and others.

It wasn't just a vertical unity that we're talking about.

And so in light of this, he prays this prayer for exactly this

picture in John 17 from verse 20.

My prayer is not for them alone.

I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message that

all of them may be one father, just as you are and me and I'm in you.

May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

I've given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as

we are, one I in them and you in me, so that they may be brought to

complete unity.

Just, just make sure you

don't miss that complete unity.

Something about that idea of putting the word complete before unity.

There's something about that.

I dunno if I fully understand, but, but, but I want you to.

Fixate on that just for the bit.

And when there's this, this picture of complete unity, there's this, there's

this dynamic that the world will know that you sent me and have loved

them even, even as you have loved me.

But Father, I want those, you have given me to be with me where I am

and to see my glory, the glory that you gave me because you love me

before the creation of the world.

Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you.

And they know you've sent me, I've made you known to them and will continue

to make them known in order that the love you have for me may be in them

and that I myself may be in them.

Fascinating scripture.

So many layers of unity and connection, and it's like if you're trying get it

all in one hit, you'll get confused.

But the underlying spirit of this part of the scripture is that.

There's this unity that is not a manmade unity, but a spirit birth unity.

That's something that is not made of man, but made of God.

And so what is this unity we're talking about as we just throw

some introductory thoughts before I get my good friends up here?

Does this unity we're talking about here mean no more different denominations?

Well, it can't be that because it says that the world is so struck by the

unity that there'll be o that people be open to the claims of Christ.

So this idea of structural unity is not the answer that we're talking

about here, where there's just one denomination, just like one, one church.

You know, like, like, like structurally.

Obviously there is only one church.

His name is Jesus.

It's his church.

But what I'm talking about this kind of expression of that on the

earth today is that that just means structural unity around one church.

I don't think so.

But this unity that we're talking about, this complete unity, it's

not uniformity, it's not conformity.

It's not about creating a structure that contains restricts or controls.

It's not even coming to a combined agreement on difficult issues.

Unity is simply a relationship, a way of standing with others

despite our differences in substance and style and saying we are one.

We reside under one name, the name of Jesus, and it's

actually clear from scripture.

This oneness we're talking about here is not optional.

Being as, being as one is, the, the, actually the desire of Jesus.

It's his desire in separating and dividing and disputing, we're throwing doubts

upon the oneness of the Christian faith.

And actually in the, in the throwing doubts on that we're actually.

Taking glory away from Jesus and the world will not be persuaded by a good argument.

The world will not be persuaded by, wonderful articulation.

Actually, it's not gonna yearn, the world's not gonna yearn with communion

and connection with the father, based on a well articulated theology.

It will not turn from destruction to hope because of the church's moral

judgments on people and condemnation.

The world's gonna yearn for the father when it sees a church being

one with each other, just as it is a reflection of being one with

Christ, that all of them may be one.

And so the spiritual truth today as we're sitting here in 2025,

30th of November 33, Hammond Road.

We are one.

Jesus has already done it.

It's complete, it's finished.

We are one, spiritually speaking, but the Spirit is drawing

us to live like that's true.

And so this unity we're talking about is not trying to make us

the same, but the walls need to come down enough not to remove our

nuances, but to have relationship.

We actually need our differences in the body of Christ because our differences

prove that our unity in Jesus.

It is real.

And this is not a small thing we're talking about here.

This is actually really important because in John 17, the promise

is is that the world will know that the father had sent the son.

And so there's two ways of thinking about that in terms of the world seeing

the claims of Jesus, the claims of the gospel, the negative way to think

about it is that the, these, these.

These qualities of Christian community, the unity, the quality of

our unity is actually bound to the na, the honor of the name of Jesus.

So what I'm trying to say there is the honor of his name is reflected

in the quality of our community.

But the positive side of it is, is Jesus is praying for it.

Well, it must be possible.

So I stand here today going, I'm convinced that by the spirit's power that this

complete unity that we're talking about.

Is actually really possible, but it's not gonna be possible

by giving you all my thoughts.

Standing on a platform with a microphone in my hand telling the utter profundity

of what this unity is all about.

Because by sheer definition of complete unity, you need to hear lots of different

voices about this, and hence why I'm gonna invite a few people up to help me do this.

And so I want to invite, Nick and Steve to come up for just a moment.

We're gonna have a bit of a conversation around this con, this part.

So please welcome these two wonderful gentlemen as they come.

As I try and get microphones working and you're probably

wondering why I've got four chairs.

Well, I'm not about to tell you that yet.

What do you want?

Yeah, wherever you'd like to sit.

Excellent.

Should we move the chairs a bit?

Forwarder?

'cause it looks a little bit like separate.

It's not unified.

Just unity.

It's just unity.

Excellent.

So I just wanna quickly just honor my friend Nick

here as I sit here.

Nick is such a good

friend and I'm so grateful that he is here to talk about this topic.

'cause I think we've been exploring this topic for the last, oh, I

would say it feels like more than 10 years, but it probably hasn't

been that much.

But, Nick has, entered a new season.

And, Margie, his wife is, is, sitting down here and, Margie's a big part

of this new season that's arrived on in Nick and Margie's radar.

Nick was previously the senior minister at Mount Pleasant Baptist.

but there's a new season coming, so I want you to just quickly share a

little bit about what's happening

in your world and, yeah, a little bit

about what you are hoping to do in the coming year.

Sure.

Well, thank you.

Thank you for

your warm welcome.

We, I just must say, just

worshiping here with you guys, I just feel like we've come home, feel like

we've just in sort of homecoming.

It's been beautiful.

but yeah, look for a number of years.

this probably did begin about 10 years ago, I reckon for me.

I just began to sense, a call of God on my life to be, to be

out, in the wider body of Christ.

So a very strong sense of call to Mount

Pleasant where I was.

but always with a sense

there was something more that the

Lord had for me and.

in the midst of that

period of time, there was this birthing of these, what we've

described as geo networks.

Maybe, you know, something about that kind of geographical networks

of pastors and leaders all around the city and in regional

areas as well.

And, I somehow kind of picked

up a, I suppose, a coordination facilitation type

role in that.

But, yeah, increasingly

felt a tension between.

A call to the local church and a call to

something wider.

And so, earlier this year, I've been released

really into

this wider space and, supported by five or

six churches

around the city and, some individuals, kind

individuals as well, but

including Red Door Church, and my, you know, deeply

appreciative of that.

So just really

stepping into this space.

trusting the Lord and

looking to what he wants us to do in this new season.

As you know, red Door has had a, something that's like a, a part of our

unique calling is to help facilitate unity in the body of Christ through

our local community here at Red Door.

And so when Nick was gonna jump, jump into this space of helping facilitate

unity in our city.

we, we, I would, I,

I said, well, mate, we, we are gonna do our very best to

try and support you in that.

And so we're so grateful because this, we don't see this as

just something you are doing.

This is something we are doing

absolutely together.

And so, so grateful to for

you to be here.

Steve Scrim, thank you for being here

in your.

Many, many, activities in compassion.

You are here, in, in your home church,

which is great to have you.

Thank you.

It's good.

Steve has been involved in spaces of unity as well

for, for a long time.

and.

There's another

gentleman sitting here, he doesn't know I am gonna embarrass him.

His name is Wayne Hol.

I dunno if

you saw me earlier.

me and Steve just saw

him quickly and then we did a group

hug all of a sudden.

Wayne is the senior

minister along with his wife Julie at at New Life Christian Church.

How come I

wasn't including the group hug?

Well, I didn't see, it was like you, you were here early.

I didn't.

There's disunity at this front.

Would you like to go give him a hug now?

Good.

When you, when you hug him, can you bring him up here?

'cause I reckon we should give him a microphone as well.

I'm just, do you wanna come and sit with us?

Sure.

Yeah.

Great.

I don't have a microphone yet, but I do in a second

two.

That's not true.

He says he is not accustomed to being on stage, which is not true.

I didn't know Wayne was coming

tonight.

And so part of, this conversation was to, talk a around a few

of the questions that have been, I suppose, questions that I've heard

about Unity in the space of the body of

Christ over the last, number of years.

And

part of the challenge is just when you hear my voice, you

only get sort of one angle.

You want to hear the broadness of the body through and you talk about these things.

So first question we're gonna just jump into is that's okay.

So you got no prep, so I know you just, you're gonna drop gold nuggets tonight.

I just know it.

It's gonna be fantastic.

So how can the church become a compelling testimony?

To the world of divine unity as Jesus intended and prayed for in John 17.

How can that, how's that possible, Wayne?

You're up.

You're up.

No, he knows

you don't have to lick is picking on you and this is not a good

expression of unity right now.

Said it best.

How did he say it?

And he's speaking to his disciples, John, 1335 people, all the people will

know that you're my disciples, but the love that you have for one another.

And so I really think that is the essence of everything.

Is it actually a, a deep and abiding love for one another, a trust for one another,

that that flows out of that place.

And so it's not about trying to be the same, look, the same or anything like

that, but it's, it's people knowing.

The kind of love that we actually share.

The four of us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a love that goes beyond anything that's just sitting on the stage because

it's rooted and grounded in Jesus.

So good.

Wayne, I think that's a fascinating picture.

Like you've just all witnessed me grab Wayne didn't know he was talking,

just jump, throw him up, give him a microphone, say off you go, sung to do.

That's gotta be a significant amount of trust.

Would you agree?

Am I talking just to know people here is, that's gotta have a

significant amount of trust so.

One of the things I'm so excited about tonight is the love sitting here in

front of you between these four blokes.

I just adore these fellas.

I think they're just the beast knees.

So I would let let them just share with you any day, any time, because

the deep love that I have for them.

I'll be quiet now.

Nick, what do you think?

Yeah, I, I've spent a lot of time just reflecting on John 17.

I think it's just

such a key passage and Jesus prayer for us.

if you read the passages

for us to experience the

perfect unity that is, that exists and is

modeled within the Godhead between Father, son

and Holy Spirit, and, there's a, a writer

of the Love by the name of Baxter Krueger, who talks about, and I love this phrase,

the dance of the Trinity that we're invited into the dance of the Trinity.

I think his book is called The Great Dance, but this constant

interaction, this perfect.

Community that exists in the Godhead, where as you read

the New Testament, you see

this, this constant, deferment, deferring

of from one to the other.

So, you know, when

the father speaks, what he says is, this

is my, this is my son in whom I'm well pleased.

When Jesus speaks, he says, I only do what the father's doing.

And then Jesus says, the spirit of truth goes out from the

Father and testifies about Jesus.

So there's this constant.

Deferring and what I think Jesus is when he, when he prays for us, that we'll

experience that, that kind of unity.

What he's saying is this is, this is awesome.

This is beyond anything that you can imagine in terms of your human experience.

And so my prayer actually to the father is that you'll experience

this, this perfect, the beauty and the

wonder of this unity, this perfect unity

within the Godhead.

And, I think as a church, as we, as we explore that

and pursue that, there's this

participation, if you like, in, what Kruger has describes

as the dance

of the Trinity.

And, it's gotta begin by

us

moving, shifting from, from the eye language

that many of us were raised with, you know, Jesus and me

and I, I give my life to Jesus.

I mean, there's some truth in

that, of course.

But, to we, we language,

we, um.

You know, everything about the, the Godhead is, is we father,

son, and spirit community.

And so for us to engage in that, we need to engage in that.

Together.

Not just, not just in a solo way.

So

you know that language in the Bible, that's like you, when you read the

word you and we read it in English thinking singular you rather than

thinking the Deep South Y. Yeah.

Like it's y'all.

It's a we dynamic, not a singular You dynamic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fascinating.

Steve, you got any thoughts to add to that?

Yeah, if you look at what Wayne said about this, like love and then

what Nick said about this dance.

What the, the people in the world, in 2025 wanna see is they don't want to hear the

theology of the trinity and their oneness.

They want to see authentic love.

That's what they want.

If we can show the world authentic love, we can

share Jesus.

And so, the most beautiful

expression of authentic love has always existed.

And it's the dance of the Trinity.

But why it's so beautiful is because the dance of the Trinity isn't

just like, Hey, we're doing like a really good ballet together.

No, it's like they're drinking of the cup of suffering together.

The father is saying, Jesus, I'm sending you to the cross.

I'm sending you when Jesus in 70 is saying, not my will, but yours be done.

I drink of this cup.

Like that is authenticity.

That is authentic love.

It's the meekness of of the Holy Spirit and this

gentleness coming upon, Jesus as the beloved

son during the baptism.

The dance of the Trinity is the glorious dance, and it's also the suffering

dance, and it's true deep love and.

As we start to reflect this together, and so like you are suffering, but

we're staying in oneness because the Trinity is staying in oneness.

That's who they are.

That's what authentic love is.

Like.

You are having a great time, and I'm not getting jealous.

I'm like, oh, yes, Nick, that's great,

man.

I'm too

jealous.

No, I'm

not jealous.

I'm gonna serve you this type of oneness the world isn't seeing.

Unless they see it in us and then the word will know who God is.

In fact, they will see the character of God and the face of God in us,

and they'll see the glory of God.

earlier in the worship, Steve comes up, oh,

I think he was sitting next to me and he goes, oh, I don't

wanna share 'cause Wayne's here.

I'll just sit, sit down and Wayne

can get up and share.

so they say like, the,

the deferral dynamic, right?

And I was like, nah, nah, get 'em

all up.

It's good.

so sorry about that.

Do you have any thoughts to add to what's just been shared?

I know sometimes when we bounce

off each other, we, remember that video

we did?

Yeah.

Guess who was doing that?

The four of us.

Remember that.

Here we are again.

Where's the video?

One of the things I've experienced is, a number of years ago I

was with a group of, Christian leaders from

Iran who were outside of their country.

And speaking with them about unity and love and the connection with suffering.

When a church is suffering in a context like Iran, no

one has labels on themselves.

They're just together because they're very, survival, depends on it.

They cannot afford to, to allow divisions within them.

So there's, there's something about what suffering actually produces, both in

the heart of the individual and in the, and in the body of Christ in a region.

And it's not something I encourage people to pray for suffering, but I do think it's

important to have a conversation about the reality that through church history.

When the church has suffered in a region, it's actually often been

the time it's been most united.

Yeah.

It's

fascinating, isn't it?

Persecution actually brings such as a, a gluing

strength to the church.

what are the obstacles

to this?

One of them, as you just stated, potentially it's a seemingly lack of

persecution in Perth, Western Australia, so that could be considered one obstacle.

Um.

I think the, the, the, the question that haunted me when you and I were in Sydney

once was, is there enough humility to facilitate unity in the body of Christ?

And so humility seems to be an obstacle to unity.

Do you wanna explore that idea?

Well, so the, the short Well, a lack a lack

of humility.

Yeah.

The

short answer is that, um.

Sin is the obstacle to unity.

I mean it, and specifically I would say the sins of pride.

Mm-hmm.

And unforgiveness, unrepentant.

And actually

we all need to guard

against those things.

I've read a quote recently.

I've just written it down here.

Denominations are built around agreement.

Families are built around mothers and fathers.

And the, you know, you'd mentioned denominations before.

One of

the problems with, some of the structures

of church that

we've created is that, typically where there

is disagreement, someone needs to leave the room and typically starts something

new somewhere else where people will agree

with me.

But you know.

this is important that

the whole disagreement thing where we, where we disagree, how we walk

out, that matter of disagreement is

vitally important.

And, my suspicion is that

when it comes to theology, we probably agree on 70 to 80% of stuff

actually, but it's the other 20 to 30% that typically are things to do

with our, our origins and end times.

And.

You know, how we think about communion, what we think about gifts of the

spirit, some of those sorts of things.

There's, there's often disagreement in those things.

How we walk that out is important and fast.

Steal a phrase from a friend of mine, Philip

Royal.

He talks about, the, that, that 20

to 30% of disagreement, he talks about holding that in

mystery rather than in judgment.

I love that.

Very good.

It that that's, that necessitates if you like, a humility that

would say, I think I'm right.

Like we all think we're right.

I mean, that's why we think the things that we think, we all think we're right,

but a hu a humble approach says, I think I'm right, but I might not be right.

And there are some areas of gray that I hold in mystery rather than in

judgment, which says, well, I am right.

And so you

are all wrong.

And, and I think it was

J Packer who famously used to teach at

Regents College in, Canada.

And he would

say to his class, I mean, this is JI Packer.

He's like a, like a legend.

Legend, isn't he?

Legend of theology.

He would say, oh, by the way, about 10% of what I teach you today is wrong.

I

just dunno which 10%.

which is, which is a, a posture of humility.

Says, I don't have all the answers.

I don't understand.

Guess what?

I don't understand.

The whole of the Godhead.

Well, right.

Of course you

don't.

But many of us, form opinions, which

perhaps suggest that we, we think we do understand and we know and we're

gonna tell others, what we know is right.

So it's, yeah.

Did I answer any of your questions?

This

is brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant articulation.

So good.

I'm embracing the mystery of what you said.

No, no, it was excellent.

Steve, obstacles for this unity space.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, something really quick, really quick.

Uh.

Pride.

I don't have any.

I don't, don't have any.

Oh my goodness.

Where's Ozzie?

That's his wife.

Pride says, I don't need you.

Yeah.

Insecurity says You don't need me.

But in the kingdom, we need each other.

Yeah.

And so I'm seeing this year, my word for 2025 is ecosystem.

And in ecosystem everything needs each other, right?

Yeah.

And so I'm trying to change my thinking that the church,

this body of Christ, this.

Garden of Eden, heaven to Earth is like this ecosystem where we start

to realize we need each other.

And it's not about how much I need you, how much you need me.

It's like we just need each other.

And on the other side of us realizing this is that we actually will win cities.

We will win high schools, we will win families.

We will win communities.

Like that's, it's not just that we, this is not pride is stopping us.

It's like the why are we not having it?

Because we don't realize what's at stake.

Australia is at stake and if we could crucify our pride and our insecurity

and be one, Jesus could go through this body, through this ecosystem,

I can bring my heaven to earth.

So good ecosystem.

Wayne, have you got anything you wanna mention around this

idea of obstacles to Unity?

It's, it's okay if you don't.

It's all good.

It's what's interesting around this conversation, around unity is that

sometimes as we speak, we're kinda like coming from the perspective of church

leaders, and I think there can be a mis misunderstanding around that, this unity

conversation or this actions of unity.

Well, firstly, I think we just clarify something.

We're not talking about mental ascent, intellectual unity.

We're talking about a heart

commitment that moves, an agreement to action, to, to

actually, demonstrating making

the invisible kingdom of where our oneness, making it visible, right?

But that work is, that work of unity only up to church leaders to be

involved in, and the rest just spectate.

I don't think that's true.

So, so my question there is how can we all participate as follow

of Jesus in relationship to this oneness, this complete unity that

we're talking about, discuss?

My experience has been that actually the, the body of

people that we call the church.

Love it when they do things with other churches, and the problem

isn't if you like, in the pews.

In the seats.

It's actually up here.

Yeah.

It's often, it's often this is, this is the space that actually prohibits it.

When you think about citywide conferences and people going to all sorts of different

events that are on in different churches and m you know, meeting one another and

mingling and all those kind of things,

they're already doing it.

even, you know, we

School is part of our ministry from Christian College.

It's a great school.

If you're looking for.

Place to enroll children.

So good.

Plug it, plug it strong.

When do, when do submissions close?

Eight to 12.

Shameless.

Shameless.

Plug.

Shameless.

But even in, in the Christian school space as well, there's lots

of interaction and connection and relationships that are going on.

So I think it's, I think often it's, it can be the, the senior leadership team.

Hm.

That can actually pose the biggest problem.

And the, the people

I like don't like to use this term, but it's

just a descriptor.

the so-called lay people

are just waiting for the leaders to say, yeah, let's do it.

Such, and, and you're doing it here.

You are doing it at Mount Pleasant.

We're doing it at New Life in Fremantle as well.

And Steve's doing it everywhere,

everywhere.

Are you seeing that Nick, like the increased exposure to this

posture of unity in the body?

Are you seeing that, increase in frequency

or retract?

definitely it's on

the increase and I think as Wayne said, there's not just an increasing openness

to it, but there's a deep love for it

actually.

People love it.

And, while I've got the

microphone, the, um.

Th there's no question in my mind.

It's a collective responsibility.

It's not just a leadership

responsibility.

But, what comes to my mind is, a friend, dear friend of ours, Robin Cullen, one of

his famous lines, your Many, but one of his

famous lines is he says, your name is safe in

my mouth.

I first love that, that's an important concept.

From a leadership point of view, but

actually for all of us, that reflection of,

when I,

when I talk about, not just other people,

but other, other churches, other denominations, other movements.

When I think about, you know, maybe you got friends who go to other

churches and things, is, is the name of that church safe in your mouth?

Is the name of that pastor.

Safe New is the name of those, those friends who've, you know, left your

church and abandoned, abandoned ship and gone somewhere else.

Are their names safe in your mouth?

So it's for me.

It's a great reminder from our

dear brother Robin.

he is like a father

of the church

in our city of um.

the need to take care.

Be, be careful, be

careful how you speak, because you can either

speak unity or you can actually sow seeds of, of disunity by your

critical words of other people in other places, other churches.

So that's,

that requires.

A a, a, a measure of forgiveness,

doesn't it, for us to walk in as followers of Jesus.

That sounds quite biblical, doesn't it?

The like, forgiving each other seems like

a, it's a good

idea.

It's a good idea.

Okay.

Good.

This could be one of those 10% to 50% of things that I say that are wrong.

So I just wanna share that

before we're, we're embracing the mystery, Steve.

We're embracing the

mystery.

Yeah, embrace the mystery.

So I think the most beautiful place for unity, it's not church leadership.

I think it's family, and that's why it's so relevant.

Why is it so relevant?

Because we all have families at home.

It's the hardest place.

It's the place where the victory is so precious and so potent, and it's

where the battle is the hardest.

If you can fight for oneness in your home, the fruitfulness is

generation after generation, after generation will eat of that fruit.

So the pastors, if you've got unity in your church, when you.

Elitist, but your home is a broken place.

Forget about

it.

It's the family.

so let's go to battle,

right?

Let's go with humility.

Let's go with forgiveness and let's see, wholeness in our homes, because

then our homes reflect the Trinity.

What I see, if I could say, what is God doing right now in the body of Christ?

A summary of what he's doing is he's getting people who have

the same kingdom assignment.

So what has God called you to do?

Like if I asked you, what is your passion?

Like?

What is your passion in God?

And you described in a sentence, God's getting those people

with similar passions.

I'm cool to be a school

teacher in this community over here.

He's getting the Christians with the same passions and he's bringing them

into the oneness of the trinity.

So they can have that same character amongst them, and the

people in that community go, wow, this is what God looks like.

Here's these students in a school and they're from different churches, but

God's brought them together 'cause they've got the same assignment.

To show their friends who Jesus is, and when they come into oneness, suddenly

the school has the Ecclesia on the ground and has the church on the ground and

has Christ and his body on the ground.

So what assignment has God given you?

Who else has the same assignment, whether it's at a local level or

at a global level, whatever it is.

Come into oneness because when you start to move in oneness with

those, with the same assignment, it's not like you just have unity.

So let's collaborate like that kind of oneness where you know each other

like a family knows each other.

It gives birth.

It gives birth to movements in schools and movements in

hospitals and movements of God.

You can understand that when Jesus said, the world will know when

there's complete oneness that the

father had sent the son.

just touching on that

idea is how would you articulate the fact that division is operating against that?

Like in, you know, that phrase we like,

quote, we heard that, division in the church

is breeding atheism in the world, which is a really strong thought.

Why do you, do you, why do you think that's the case?

Like why is division actually running contrary.

To this united position that people see Jesus

atheism is this belief that God is not real.

That we were

just created by chaos.

it was just, it's just

two big things hit each other by luck and, and with a whole lot of time.

And suddenly we've got this universe and it's like the whole thing of atheism

is, is, is chaos and disunity is chaos.

The opposite of that is design.

And creator's designing.

And so unity is like, it's, it's the togetherness, it's the design of God, it's

who they are and the imprint on humanity.

And so creation and us abiding in God will always reveal who he is.

And disunity is the way of chaos.

It's, it is the way of atheism.

It is the way of their enemy.

It, it's

dysfunction.

And so, if we are saying God

is real, but we're actually just mirroring chaos, well, it's not deep and authentic.

Come

on.

It's so good.

Nick, do you have anything to add to that?

Well, it's just

division, is, it's very unattractive.

I mean, isn't it really?

So, yeah, it, I thought what wine said at the beginning, by this, shall all people

know you might soul as your love one.

I mean, like if when people see genuine love, it has a, it has an

attracting drawing quality, you think, oh, I wanna be part of that.

Yeah.

I've always been compelled by the fact that when different people, so different

ethnicities, different callings, different churches come together, the people

go, well, how come you're together?

Like, how come you're like reading off the same playbook?

Right?

Because the spirit is drawing us to be one.

But

those things that like, the sameness, that,

that would, that the world would generally unify around something that's the same.

We are not unifying around something that's the same in terms of us.

We are, we are unifying around someone who is the same and his name is Jesus.

So when we come around him, that where

he's our unifying, posture, he's the reason

why we, we are family is it actually elevates Jesus and minimizes those.

20, 30% of things that you talked about where they actually don't

become the loudest thing in the room.

Jesus becomes the loudest thing in the room.

And when Jesus lifted up, the promise is he draws all men unto himself.

And so that posture is something, it's like, oh man, I love

that evangelism strategy.

How can we be one and then let Jesus do the heavy lifting as we share the gospel?

It's potent.

It's potent.

Um.

Any thoughts on that little quote that said, we walk together in everything

and we work together in some things.

I'll say it again.

We work, we walk together in everything, but we work together in some things.

Any thoughts around that?

What that means?

I'll give you an example with my wife,

Ozzie.

So Ozzie and I, we, she does this thing

called city woman and red door woman, and she loves this woman stuff.

And

every time I'm like, Rozy, let me be one of your speakers.

She never lets me come.

Don't you want a bloke's perspective, Rossi?

It's like she will not let me work with her on these ones.

I only get to walk with her.

And I think if I just like keep

giving it a crack one day, she'll be okay, Steve.

Ever go, ever go.

But that's just something where I can walk with her.

What does walking with her look like?

It means that when she's got a busy week, I might have to

do the cooking on her night.

It means she's gonna be more tired and I need to like be gentle

and patient with her and pray for with her when she's going.

I'm gonna listen to the message she's get, get heard,

and like pray for it.

and then I've got things that I do with ahed.

which Rosie's not part

of, and then she's the sacrifice.

Like we

just went to Japan, and I, and we took

our boys, but Rossie had to sacrifice, so I wasn't doing it.

I wasn't working with Roz, but she was walking with me through it.

But then Rosie and I do students together.

Oh, I love it when we get to work together and walk together.

And so we'll do like, we'll just hang out with young people, students.

It's not a big, massive thing, but it's, it's a powerful

thing and we do it together.

And so we know when we're working together, we know

when we're walking together.

And although we're united in one, in all of them, it just looks different.

So Good.

So good.

I just love the picture.

'cause it's like you can't work together all the time, but you

can walk together in relationship.

That's when you hurt.

I hurt.

When you win.

I win.

When we win, we win man.

And we are in it.

We

are walking together.

just quickly, have

you got something to add on that?

Just add

to that?

Yeah, go.

Just say

that.

In all of our local churches, there's quite a lot of things that are going

on as we're seeking to build the culture and the connections and the

relationships and build people up.

So to have something put on as well as like, oh, you've also

gotta do all of these other things.

With all the other churches as well.

So you've gotta keep your church going well and functioning well,

and people building strong community and relationships and growing in

the scriptures and into all of that.

You've gotta start doing all these other things with ev,

with all the other churches.

It's gonna, it's actually mission impossible.

You're gonna crush people, you're gonna drop, that's right.

It becomes impossible.

You're gonna wear yourself out as a pastor and you're gonna

wear your people out as well.

So you have to be able to selectively say, look, these things, we will, we'll

jump in on this one.

so for example, you

know, at the cross live, you know, early this year, it

was like, that's an easy one.

We're jumping in on that with you.

You spearheaded that.

But myself.

All the other churches in Freo and Coburn, I think as well jumped in.

You know, to say, let's make this happen and we're doing it

a site when we we're already New Life's already committed to 2026.

Yes, amen.

For that, something we're gonna do together and the free man of

PE pastors will continue to pray together on a weekly basis as well,

and we'll see what God might birth.

Out of those who there's, you know, conversations stir in that place.

And we've also had the prayer together at Wesley, which you've

been spearheading as well.

So Good

Melville and Coburn, pastors networks coming together to pray, for the city.

And to

me that's the Preem thing that we need to do.

Yeah, it's a great way is to stand together before God.

On behalf of our, our regions.

And then he just lights fires and we go, let's do this.

So good.

Do you think that's the difference between manmade unity and spirit birthed unity?

I would say yes.

So what's an example of ma manmade unity that's so manmade.

Unity.

If that is what we are not talking about in John 17, what

would manmade unity look like?

You know, like what, what is.

How, what, what do we need to avoid, you know, in that space?

My answer would

be, North Korea, the Russian communism,

everybody's gotta look the same, sound the same, we're

the same clothes, same haircut.

Do everything.

You all gotta go out and get bowl haircuts like the leader, you

know, wear the car key.

that's manmade unity.

Correct.

Control.

It's gotta be.

'cause manmade unity has to produce uniformity.

It can't do anything else.

Very good.

It can't allow for personal expression under the lordship of Jesus.

Wow.

Sorry.

Told you you were gonna drop gold.

That was great.

It's also, I reckon that any, any sense of kind of striving in

your own strength to do things apart from the inspiration of God.

And so to

me you've got the, on the one hand, the

invitation of the Holy Spirit.

To participate in the divine dance of the Trinity, if you like.

So in that sense, unity is, it's God's initiative, God's invention in God's

invitation.

But then, on the other hand,

you know, Paul says, make every effort to maintain the unity.

So, you know, sometimes I think we, we downplay the importance of our

effort on the basis that we say, oh, it's, it's all God, you know, it's

all what God's doing, which it is.

But actually there is a, there is a

striving, but it's never, in order to earn God's

favor, it's because we have his favor that the, that the effort and the striving

flow out of that.

But yeah, there is effort

is important.

Like we need to make every effort.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is fascinating, isn't it?

Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit.

Yeah.

Not the unity of manmade effort and sectarianism, which is like

just trying to be the same.

It's, it's not gonna bear fruit.

What I'm trying to say there is that the unity of the spirit is

where he's actually highlighting the areas that we work together in.

He's like, so, oh yeah, I'm doing what I see the father doing.

Jesus couldn't do everything, but he just did what he saw the father doing.

And that's the same posture I think we come to in relationship.

To what, where, where do we work together?

That's gotta be a spirit birthed expression, not a manmade,

forced controlled space.

I think one of the ways that we maintain the unity, me

saying there, Nick is, in cafes, cafes are

such an important part of unity.

Breakfast, coffees, come on, lunches.

It's like that's, that's how we maintain the unity.

And I'm, I'm being a little bit tongue in cheek, but I'm also being

very serious because it's when we sit across the table from one another

and we're talking and sharing what's going on inside of us as well.

That relationships and continu to be strengthened as our relationships

always have been in that way.

So I do think that cafes play an important part in maintaining the unity

of the spirit and the bond of peace.

So good.

When you think about what Wayne said before about that extreme example of com

communism, now think of the exact opposite in the kingdom and how unique we all are.

Like we are so unique in Christ, so we can go so deep into our authentic

uniqueness, the passions, the way God created us, and molded us, and shaped us.

Knowing that in Christ we can go so deep into that uniqueness and

God's gonna make, make us one.

Let me give you an example, Wayne over here.

Adam and Nick are three of the fathers of unity in our city, but they're

also different in their expression.

So Wayne is like the father of prayer in our city.

Adam, you are like the creative father.

And Nick, what are you?

That's not very kind.

What, what?

Justify yourself.

Justify yourself.

You're like the unity father.

You know?

He is the, the unity father in our city and you.

But what's so wonderful, right?

Unity father.

That's exactly what it is.

He's the unity father.

Tell

him.

Tell him.

But what's happened is Wayne's deep love for Pratt and

his church has been.

at the very hardest

place of Perth is where their church is in Fremantle, and

they have been so faithful in

faithful faithfulness.

Tell him, tell him

faithfulness.

Tell

him.

And, but now that what he has, what him and his church and his

geo network have like so brought so much unique strength into that now

has gone across the geo networks.

What Adam has pioneered in creativity has now started to go into the geo

networks around him and what Nick has carried in his heart of God bringing

the church and the family has actually gone across our state and now God's

taking it over to the East coast.

So this.

Uniqueness of learning how to not just be one, but also go into the depths

of your uniqueness in Christ and all the little crazy ways God made you.

And embracing those and then sharing them freely is how we come into the

fullness of the statue of Christ.

Let's feel important to say that, um.

I think, I think we thank you, Steve for, for that and I think we

have made contributions in that.

But I also think it's important, and you guys I know would would say this

as well, is that it's the foundation.

Things have been laid before us by previous generations of

pastors and leaders working together for Unity in the city.

And we're just, you know, it's.

We're just building on, on those foundations and that foundation

is Christ, obviously, but it's like we're, we are adding to that.

Yeah.

So, so good.

We're kind of the grand great, great grandsons of unity.

Amen and

amen.

I do wanna last touch on this last question before

we begin to bring this home.

I'll read, I'll read the question.

When we talk about Unity, sometimes it can come across as if Unity is the goal.

Instead of Jesus being the goal, how do we understand this dynamic in

within the context of following Jesus?

How do we explain that?

Because right now, if you had walked in, you never been to church

before, like you just heard this, you may get the impression that

we're all seeking after Unity.

Like Unity is the savior, Unity's at the center.

And that's not true, is it?

No.

Well, Jesus is the Savior and Jesus is the center.

Yes.

But this may be a little controversial.

No go.

Probably the 30%.

But

I would suggest that unity actually is the goal.

I mean, I think it's God's goal.

I think, you

know, if I think of, one of my great life

verses is Ephesians one 10, where I think Paul most succinctly describes.

God's master plan, which is to bring all things together in heaven and on earth,

in unity under the headship of Christ.

So if God's, if God's ultimate goal is unity and Jesus' prayer

for us is unity and oneness, then I don't think we need to shy away

from unity being actually our, our

ultimate goal.

So good.

we don't worship unity,

we worship Christ.

Correct.

But, but absolutely Unity is what we need to be pursuing a whole,

make every effort wholeheartedly.

Yeah.

I, I, I am with you because I feel like there's, you

don't have to be, you can be in the

No, no, the question, you can hold that in mystery.

The question was not necessarily representing something that

I'm standing as my position.

The question came from a sense of, I feel like there's a tension in the air, in the

body of Christ when we talk about unity.

That what's at the center of this?

What's, what are we aiming for?

What are we striving for?

'cause I know I've put people off.

Talking about unity because they've misconstrued it to be something

where Jesus is now dethroned and there's something else there.

Now, does that make sense?

So I don't disagree with you because I think it's actually quite mysterious

in the sense that we try and define something that's not easy to define.

Yeah.

So it's, so

then people misunderstand and think that agreement is what we're aiming for

instead, which is not the same as unity.

So we can correct, we can disagree about certain things.

And still absolutely be in unity together.

It's that, it's that 30% holding and mystery thing that I said before.

So good, Nick.

So good.

I can give you an example when like the o, the

other side of the coin.

Wayne and I put on

this pastor's Unity meal.

I don't know, like six years ago in Fremantle.

Upstairs, this really cool place.

There's like 20 pastas there and we had Richmond Wandera.

She's testimony.

And, you shared for like

10 minutes.

I shared as well about the whole region to region with compassion, a great time.

And I just knew this was such a good time and I drive and I have to pull the car

over 'cause I feel sick in my stomach.

And I called up my manager and it's like I had to repent and I, I was like.

I just felt like God was grieving in my heart that we had talked about the church.

We had talked about unity.

We had talked about children and poverty.

We talked about them being released from poverty, but we had missed the name of

Jesus because normally when we had put these tables on, we'd have a space.

We would talk about how compassion is Christ-centered, church-based.

And child-focused, but we took that part out so Richmond could share his testimony.

And so the part where we lifted up Jesus was missing.

And I felt grieved and I

realized you can never, take Jesus out of the

center of unity.

So yes, in the end, everything will be reconciled in Christ.

And I love the imagery in Ephesians one, that, that this

is what the end looks like.

This is the goal, is everything reconciled.

But if you take everything reconciled and you take Christ out

of it, that's when unity is wrong.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's

good.

There was a shameless plug for compassion in there.

It's alright.

We've had a few of them.

Is, is there anything you would like to show us?

The plug?

No, no, no.

Not at all.

Supporting

these guys support us.

It's a very humble position.

I think we could be unified.

That's good.

I think anything else that takes Takes Jesus out of the scene.

Turns it into what you said.

It is talking about uniformity and conformity.

When Jesus at the center, he embraces all our differences and

makes us one because of his work.

On the cross, which is the catalyst for our unity with one another.

I've really enjoyed this conversation guys.

Have you felt been good?

Love that.

Thank you.

How are you feeling?

I threw you in the like the deep.

This is probably, is this like the deep end like moment?

No warning.

Just come up here.

Now.

How'd you go?

Oh, did great.

I, yeah.

Good.

I thought I did great too.

I wanna,

I wanna share one last thought.

Go ahead.

I think it really helps,

and it's actually by, a w Tozer.

If any of

you, if you

dunno who a w Tozer is, go and find out.

So it, one of the things that a w Tozer said that

has really impacted, me personally and my

wife in our, in our congregation, although some of the younger members may not have

heard us speak about this, he, he talked

about the fact that.

when you're tuning

an orchestra, you tune it to one tuning fork.

Now, if you dunno what a tuning fork is, you can search the internet and

find, find it, but you tune the whole orchestra to, to one single vibration

of a, of a single tuning fork.

And in that reality, all the instruments being by therefore, being tuned to that

one, are all in tune with one another.

And I think that's a brilliant picture.

If we tune our lives to Christ, come on, we are in tune with one another.

In the fullness of that.

It's good preaching.

Passed away.

Really good.

Really good.

I want you to stand.

We're gonna pray to close this and, and Pastor Nick's gonna pray for our city.

We're gonna pray for unity in the church.

We're gonna pray for unity amongst the leaders.

We're gonna pray that Jesus

will be exalted and, we're gonna go out

that way.

So thank you Lord.

Thank you Father.

Thank you Lord.

Father,

we just thank you, as we stand here, as your people tonight,

as your church.

We're reminded of the words of Jesus who said, I will build my church, and the

gates of her will not prevail against it.

And we recognize law that as we gather here this evening of the Red Door

Church, just a beautiful church that's,

just graced with, with generosity and

with creativity.

And yet, Lord, it is part of something much bigger.

We're all part of something much bigger that you're doing across this

region of Coburn and more broadly across our city, across our state, and

across our nation.

And, Lord, we just would ask tonight that, as we gather in your

name, in

your strength.

That, you would continue

to build your church across this

whole region, our, our city, our state,

our nation, that the glory of God might, might be revealed in the

unity of your people across this great nation of ours, of yours.

We are committed to you Lord, and we're thankful that you include us

in the great dance of the Trinity.

You invite us in to a, a wonderful celebration that will culminate

one day when Jesus returns.

But in the meantime, Lord.

May we be those who make every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit through

the bond of peace we pray in Jesus' name.

Amen.