A Time to Dream

So I thought I might just jump in and, uh, just introduce our guest tonight.

Roger Sut Sutton has become a really good friend.

And, um, I first met Roger through a book that he wrote, uh, A Gathering Momentum.

Am I right in saying that's what it's called?

Yes.

Good.

It's one of my favorite books.

And, um, he's been here before to share, he, he loves our Red Door family.

So Roger's, uh, from Manchester in the uk.

Um, he has had an interesting few years.

Uh, he unfortunately lost his very beautiful wife, Leslie,

recently, um, or three years ago.

And, um, so he's been on a. A fascinating journey of focusing his attention

on Jesus in the midst of the trial.

And it's funny, as I was sharing communion today, that idea of having

storm, but yet still focusing on where is the joy in the midst of it.

I was thinking about your story tonight, Roger, so thank you for setting an

example for us, as I know you'll share a little bit more about that.

Um, Roger's led a church for 23 years.

So he's, he's a church man, but the last probably 15 years or so, he's been, um.

Uh, leading a, an organization called the Gather Movement, uh, uk and that

is involved supporting, bringing together, nurturing unity across the

churches within the uk, which I'm sure he'll talk a little bit about.

Um, Roger used to be the chaplain at Manchester United

Club in the, in the nineties.

Yeah.

A few days ago, which was good.

Um, and it's a real privilege to have him with us tonight.

And so please lean forward tonight.

You, you, you ran for a real treat tonight.

Roger really shares his heart so beautifully, and I'm so

grateful to have him with us.

So please make him, make him feel welcome, everybody.

Is that okay?

Awesome.

Thank you.

Hey, it's great to be with you.

I've been really looking forward to coming to Red Door.

It's one of my favorite churches, top 10 favorite churches.

It is no serious.

And, uh, I've been around and I've seen some churches, they're not in the top 10.

No, I just love your heart and, uh, I love the creativity of this place.

And, um, I thought at the cross was wonderful actually.

What a, what a, an imaginative project to do, eh, hallelujah.

We need some more imagination, so, so that's cool.

Um, yeah, Leslie, uh, Leslie, my wife left me, uh, for a better

offer for Jesus, um, three years ago, it feels like three weeks.

And, um, uh, just walking that path of, uh, just walking that path really.

Um, and then 18 months ago, I found out I had a serious liver condition as well.

Um, so I said to the Lord, you've gotta be kidding me here.

Um, but you know.

That's the way in that.

So in fact, the more vulnerable, vulnerable you become, um, God then

does something in your life, doesn't he?

Um, so, uh, this gospel doesn't protect us from things in that sense, um,

but it does give us a lot of hope.

Um, as I held her hand, uh, before she passed or as she passed, um, the

Lord spoke to me and said, why do you look for the living among the dead?

She is not here.

She has risen.

Um, and I hold onto that.

Um, beautiful.

So she could have done without leaving me behind.

But anyway, anyway, I limp on, limp on as our family does as well.

So, um, but that's okay.

There's loads of, uh, loads of joy and beauty to be found in this world,

so, um, it's wonderful to be with you.

Um, I just want to just take some verses actually from Mark 10, um,

which is the healing of Bartimaeus.

That's what I want to talk about and I wanna talk about dreaming a bit tonight.

So if you're in a dreaming mode, that's okay.

Um, if you're not, I'll get you in one and, um, uh, yeah, thanks cats.

Okay, wonderful.

Thank you.

I mean, as interesting, mark 10 things are hotting up, by the way, in Mark

10, because Mark is one of the, the, the fastest pace paced gospels that

we have, if not the, it's always and, and then he went, and then

he did, and then he did, and he's always going to Jerusalem, you see?

Now in chapter 10, things are getting a bit tense.

Um, he has an argument with the Pharisees as, as he often did, and,

uh, or they had an argument with him.

And then the little children get brought to Jesus in verse 12.

And then he has an argument with the disciples because, uh, they're trying

to keep, uh, them away from him.

And then a rich young ruler comes and, uh, you know, wants to sort

of have a, kind of, a bit of a discussion about what's eternal life.

And, um, and then he, I think, I think, I think he's getting

a little bit short, really now.

He goes, well just go and give away everything you have.

And the blokey kind of goes off.

And, um, uh, and then he predicts his death for the third time and a bunch

of disciples still not listening.

And, and then he really has a problem because two of the disciples

come up, James and John, and ask the question, Lord, we, we

want you to do something for us.

Um, whatever we ask.

Uh, and he goes, oh, that's good.

Um, and they just wanted positions of power and authority that one, one of me,

one of us sit on the right and the left.

And in their image, I think he was going to Jerusalem to get rid of the Romans.

And, uh, um, wouldn't it be wonderful to sort of get either side of him?

Um, uh, and then he gets slightly annoyed with them.

Um, and, uh, but then prophesize over them, uh, can you drink the, the,

uh, the cup that I'm about to drink?

Um, and he says, you will, you will.

'cause the qualification of an apostle is you're gonna get martyred in the end.

Um, and then get this amazing story when they came to j Jericho as this

Jesus and disciples together with a large crowd with leaving the city.

A blind man bot Aeu, which means a son of Tamima, which is son of the unclean.

Not a great name to have.

It was sitting by the roadside and when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth.

Um, and when it roadside is probably a kind of quite a, a small passageway.

You know, this isn't, um, you know, it's not sort of not a freeway or anything.

Okay guys, it's, uh, I was in Marrakesh after Christmas and um,

the roads, you know, the kind of roads are very, very tight and, um,

must have been like that really, um, without the motorbikes coming down.

But, um, noisy and then wherever Jesus went, of course

there was a crowd and so on.

And when he heard that it was Jesus nazar as he began to shout, Jesus,

son of David, have mercy on me.

Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me.

Jesus, son of David.

I dunno how many times he said it, but he began to shout it and many rebuked him.

And told him to be quiet.

And the more that he got rebuked, the more he shouted, son David, have mercy

on me, son David, have mercy on me.

And then Jesus stops and, uh, says, call him.

So they called to the blind man, cheer up on your feet.

He's calling you, throwing his cloak aside.

He jumped to his feet and came to Jesus.

And Jesus said, what do you want me to do for you?

And that is the question.

Um, and I've, I don't like the question personally because I kind

of struggle with the question.

Um, 'cause I think I wanna say, uh, well, what Whatever you want, Lord.

But Jesus won't have that.

He wants an eyeball to eyeball relationship and says, what do you want?

Well, whatever, whatever you call, no, no, no.

What do you want?

Um, and it, it, it demands something of us, doesn't it?

Um, it demands something of us.

It's an unusual question.

It's an odd question.

I mean, firstly, he was blind.

It was a pretty odd question and he was a healer.

So why did Jesus ask the question?

Um, people around Jesus must have been slightly embarrassed.

Well, well, to be honest, mate, he's, uh, you know, he's blind.

Um,

um, Jericho, of course is the last stop on the pilgrims route to

Jerusalem, which is only 15 miles away.

And lots of beggars were there because, um, people will go to Jerusalem to, to,

you know, get themselves right with God.

And one of the ways you can get yourself right with God

is to give money to the poor.

So, um, so great place to be very strategic.

Similar really to the story chapter five of the, of the

woman bleeding, um, for 12 years.

Yes.

And Jairus, a synagogue ruler, his daughter has been, um, is of the age of.

12. That's interesting.

So she's not been able to be in the temple 'cause she's unclean and

Barima is the son of the unclean.

Um, she's not been able to go to the synagogue 'cause she was unclean for 12

years, but he's about to go to Jarris house to heal a daughter of 12 years.

Um, she is, you know, obviously goes through all that.

There's a hindering crowd.

She has to find a way through.

And there's a commendation of faith and ritual, um, purity comes to her.

Um, I love the passage of Jairus and the, the bleeding woman because what

I love about it is, um, as she touched him, he, he should have become unclean.

Yeah,

as she touched him, she should have been the one, sorry, he should

have been the one who was impure.

And then you'd have to go through a whole ritual of getting yourself pure again.

Um, but not with Jesus.

'cause when you touch Jesus, he makes you clean.

Um, sometimes you get in churches, so we do in our country, and if

you have it here, but a kind of a protection really of holiness.

Do you ever get that kind of, oh, you know, no, we don't, we don't really want

those people here, you know, 'cause you know, they're not, not quite right yet.

Um, and it's kind of like a protection thing of holiness somehow.

Somehow God sent us to protect holiness.

Um, well, I think, I think he would've chosen some other people to be honest.

But, um, Jesus doesn't protect holiness.

He unleashes holiness.

And that's why we go out with confidence into the world.

And you find yourselves in situations and all you will find

yourselves in situations, in, in workplace, or wherever I'm talking

about the arts world particularly.

Um, you go to unleash holiness because greater is the power that is

in us than is in the world and have a confidence about that actually.

Um, and uh, so he comes to the son of the un unclean, the unholy, uh, great contrast

with the rich young man who couldn't, who wouldn't liquidate his fortune, but

the blind beggar throws away his cloak.

And a cloak is what you had to lay on the floor.

And that's where people gave the arms and gave the money.

You see?

Um, so he.

Liquidated his fortune as little as it was.

But the rich young ruler couldn't liquidate his fortune.

His fortune.

Um,

the one at the top of the scale rejects the call.

The one at the bottom just follows Jesus the poor respond

quickly and the rich walk away.

And he responds despite insurmountable obstacles.

Like the women, like the woman, um, there's something about the poor

actually, and their response to Jesus.

Um, I have a privilege of supporting a church in Manchester, which

reaches drug addicts and alcoholics.

Um, that's the whole church, basically prostitutes, ex prostitutes, um, uh,

and it's, it's the wildest church you've ever been to in your life.

Um, how's this for church?

Okay.

Alt call, right?

We're gonna pray for people this morning.

If you have HIV positive, could you just raise your hands please?

Loads of hands go up in the air.

If you have hep hep A or hep B because of drug use, just raise your hand.

Now, don't put your hands in the air.

Um,

and if there's, so, so we're gonna pray for HIV positive here.

We're gonna pray for Hep A and hep B issues here.

And over here we just deal with all the other illnesses.

Um, there's not many middle class churches you could do that to, but you

can do it in victory outreach because, uh, the poor respond quickly to Jesus.

You see, um, I went to a baptism Saturday night.

I went to preach there.

Actually, it, it started at 11.

I, they put me onto preach at one, and then we had baptisms at four.

Okay.

I was, well, I was hungry actually for most of it.

Um,

he apologized 'cause there only 18 baptisms.

Uh, okay.

Um, every one of them said it was not.

If it was not for Jesus, I would be dead.

Whoa.

Um.

That's the, that's the heart of Bartimaeus here, isn't it?

Um, there's an intensity to this passage.

He wants to be healed.

Son of David, have mercy on me.

Son of David, have mercy on me.

Um, there's no, you know, there's no middle classness about this is there.

Just let it go.

Son of David, have mercy on me.

Do you know, I think God is sometimes looking for us to actually eyeball him

and say what we feel and he can take it.

Let me tell you the stuff I've been through in the last three

years, he can take it and he's had it from me in serious loads.

'cause that's, that's what he's looking for.

Yeah.

He's not looking for politeness and religiosity, for goodness sake.

Be yourself with Jesus.

Tell him how you feel.

He may tell you how he feels, by the way.

So you may, you may kinda get that back.

Um, but at least it's a relationship, isn't it?

Mm-hmm.

It's meant to be a relationship.

Um, he shouts out, he pushes past the obstacles, he throws away his

support structures, he steps out in faith, and he's asked a question

and he responds quickly and clearly.

I think we feel that one of the greatest sins perhaps, is to decide

to do something we know, sorry.

One of, one of the greatest sins that we think is to decide to do

something that we know to be wrong or to be act actively sinful, but

perhaps the greatest sin is the sin of inactivity, apathy, and indifference.

Someone's once said, I prefer to commit a sin of passion

than one of cold indifference.

Mm-hmm.

Um, there's a writer here who says, looking back on the life I've lived

thus far, I find that I don't regret many choices I've made, but I sure as

hell regret the times when I refuse to choose, refuse to make a decision.

I regret the moments of passive or compulsive ascent to the ebb

and flow of entropy and decay.

A kind of ascent that is essentially a denial of desire acted upon or not.

Of course, we mustn't act on every whim, but pacivity replaces passion.

We may find.

We find many abused and underappreciated relationships and lots of wasted time.

You can hurt a lot of people by never making a choice.

And when outta fear or failure, or mistake or un clarity, we refuse to act.

We not only miss the mark, we miss the opportunity.

We miss the chance of accepting consequence.

And one of the greatest challenges on us in the Christian Church, I think in

this age is to find a passion for life.

Hallelujah.

What have you got to offer this world?

Well, for goodness sake, offer passion for life.

And then you tell people where it comes from.

So what do you want?

Powerful question.

What do you want?

I dunno.

What do you want?

What future do you envisage?

That's a good one, isn't it?

What vision do you have for your life, your family, your church?

If you don't have a vision, other people will have a vision for you, okay?

Consumer society will give you the vision.

Yeah, so, you know, earn as much as you can and get retirement.

And you guys go off caravaning, don't you?

Um,

it's not so easy when it's raining all the time.

Um,

but then you get to 65 and get your pension and then you find

out you have a heart attack.

Oh, that's a good deal, isn't it?

Oh, it doesn't always deliver, does it?

In fact, now we're bringing up a younger generation who are less

now, well off than the parents.

Um, hasn't delivered.

See, if you don't have a vision, somebody else will.

Secular atheistic society will.

It just says basically it's all meaningless.

Just do whatever you want to do and, you know, stay, whatever.

That's a great passion for life, isn't it?

Um.

Doesn't, it's all meaningless for goodness sake.

So what are your dreams now?

Some people only, uh, thanks kids.

Um, uh, yeah, I've got some great slides here I've just forgotten about.

Dreams and Kick Kids.

Keep going.

Shopping.

Thank you.

This is it.

We stay on this one.

Some people live other people's dreams.

That's interesting, isn't it?

Um, now it's not, it's not bad.

Sorry.

You know, if you're a mom, you're giving you a dad, you're

giving your life to your kids.

Um, partners who support spouses and people who give their lives to their

workplaces and the vision perhaps for the company they're employed by, or people

to give their lives to a church's vision.

There's good stuff there.

Um, but interestingly, Bartimaeus could have said to Jesus, so

Jesus says, what do you want?

And Bartimaeus could have said, I just love my mum to feel a bit more encouraged

because she supported me for years.

Mm. It's a valuable prayer,

but it's not what he wanted.

Now, people who give their life and serve sacrificially, God, you know,

please, and we need more and more of it.

Um, but what happens to the mum when the kids have left?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you, when, when the kids left me as a dad, I, I thought it was fantastic.

Um,

personally, I knew where the beer was.

It stayed there in the fridge.

I had the remote.

I could watch my own programs, but wife, I crying her eyes out.

But

anyway,

um, it's good to, it's good to, you know, what, what you can give yourself

for the company, but what, what happens when you're made redundant?

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

That's great fun.

Yeah.

Um, it's a good thing to do, but can't be your ultimate dream, can it?

Um, I think some people thanks Kit, um, have stopped asking dreams because they've

been disappointed and perhaps some of you have been disappointed actually.

Um, you know, answering the question, what do you want me to do for you?

Be, but you can't answer it because of past disappointments.

I told God about this before and it did not happen.

He didn't deliver, he didn't answer.

So I'm not gonna bother again.

And that, that's common.

And I, and I tell you I can understand it, alright?

Um, but I think if that was Bar MA's problem and it probably was, um, he would

never have shouted out in the first place.

That's the trouble.

Um, and I know, I know it's a big issue and sometimes we get so let

down by life and situation and somehow we struggle to trust again.

We struggle to breathe again.

Um, um, but we have to.

We have to, 'cause we have to embrace life and the dream that God has for us.

Um, one writer calls this the second innocence, which I quite like actually.

The first innocence is when you come to Jesus and every single

prayer is answered, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everyone, Christian, you meet.

When you come to Jesus, they're perfect, aren't they?

And then life happens and the ups and downs of life.

And um, if you've been in church a long time, the ups and downs of

church and so on, and, and family.

And family and so on, and you can get a little bit jaded and cynical

and you lose your innocence.

Um,

but I think Jesus calls us to a second innocence actually.

Um, there's a, a great, uh, story about Carl Bart who, um, who wrote

10 million words in the church.

Dogmatics.

It's a series of books.

Um, it's completely un unreadable.

Um, you, I worked with a guy who learned German so he could

really understand it better.

Um, anyway, that's a sad way to live life.

But anyway, um, he was so intelligent, um, and Carl Bart wrote 5 million words.

Sorry, the sentences, the theological sentences.

Every sentence is you're thinking, oh, what does that mean?

I haven't even got to the 10 million words yet.

He wrote 5 million words as a, as a, as a warmup bit.

A warmup, warmup goes to America.

This is dead true.

Only Americans could ask this question.

Professor Barr, could you summarize your theology for us?

I mean, there's a lot of complexity in that theology on there.

Um, and he said, yes, I can.

Jesus loves me.

This I know for the Bible tells me so little ones to him belong.

They are weak, but he is strong.

That is second innocence throughout the complexity of life.

Um, um, thank you Gtz.

Um, the second one, avoiding disappointment.

Don't stay too long.

That's the key.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next one.

Dreaming.

That becomes obsessive.

Um, that's interesting.

When you fix only on one dream.

Yes.

Some people do that actually.

And it never happens.

Never happens.

Um, uh, perhaps some, a couple of wanna have kids.

I mean, that, that's a painful thing to focus on.

Um, well.

It's a painful thing to happen to you.

Um, I can understand that.

Or the dream job or, um, or the, the role in church or whatever.

I dunno what it happens to be.

Um, but the issue is, is, is just focus on one dream.

Well, I've got a feeling that I think got a thing God's calling

us to something bigger than that.

Um, and sometimes the one dream can out kind of, it can dominate your

life to such an extent that you don't actually dream in other areas.

Yeah.

Um, and, and, you know, dreaming is big and it's, it's huge and it's, it

should be imaginative and it should cover so many different things.

Um.

And some people dream, I think too small.

Thank you, kit, um, uh, dream no small dreams where they have no

power to move the heart of men.

Um, they would come to Jesus and say, oh, these people will come to Jesus

as the blind man and say, Lord, I could really do with a guide dog.

Yeah, I mean, it's a valid prayer, but it's not the prayer.

Yeah, you can dream too small, can't you?

Um, and sometimes these people don't take the risk, don't wanna

see the change in the growth.

The trouble with dreaming is there's gonna be some change involved.

'cause you haven't seen what you've, what you're aiming for

and you've gotta get there.

And Jesus is probably gonna get you there.

But to get there is actually can be a bit of a journey.

So that in itself is, is about growth and disruption.

Um, and uh, I mean this is a massive change for this.

I think one of the reasons Jesus asked, what do you want?

Because his life is about to become incredibly different, different now, um,

because he's no longer gonna be a beggar.

Now how is he gonna live?

He lived as a beggar, but how now?

How's he gonna live?

Um, I was talking to a woman who got healed actually at a, a healing

meeting and she used to get disability payment from the government and she

could no longer get disability payment.

Um, she tried to keep it quiet for a bit.

Um,

so where do I live now?

It's disruptive, isn't it?

Yeah.

God provides your dreams.

Yeah.

It can be disruptive.

Um, so we kind of keep your dreams a bit manageable, kind of in

the middle of the comfort zone.

Um, but the question comes to us, what do you want expecting an

imaginative, courageous response.

I want to see that's what I want.

And he knew what he wanted.

Um,

it's a deep question, isn't it?

It's a vital question actually.

It focuses on life and understanding ourselves and whose God may be and what

brings me joy and what am I looking for?

Um, it's the key, I think over, over children actually.

Um, when, when each of our children were born, we, we kind of prayed for, for a

word over them because I wanted to, I wanted to pray them into the, into what

God had for them and who they were.

That's all you want your children to be, is you want them to reach

the potential that God has for them.

And you know, instinctively when they're not doing it, you just know.

Um, I mean, everything may be going absolutely brilliant, but you kind of

know they're still not reaching it.

Um, and that's the same heart that God has for us, isn't it?

Um, he wants us to live this incredible life filled, risky,

adventurous, imaginative life.

Um, did not settle for something half, don't settle for something smaller.

Um, the Bible does say, you know, it will give us the desires of our heart.

Um, evangelicals actually have a bit of a problem with this, by the way.

'cause we have a real problem with emotions.

Evangelicals, by the way, Catholics have less of a problem.

In fact, as part of their discernment, they will often and ask, what,

how do you feel Evangelicals wanna just push the feelings down?

'cause they're very bad.

Present says that they're not bad, okay?

They're just part of who you are.

Um, and understanding that and feeling it, it's really, really important

in that, um, the Bible said it would give us the desires of our hearts.

So Jesus is really asking, what do you desire?

It seems that knowing our dreams and desires is important to God, to

knowing the will of God for our lives.

So you've gotta drill down into that.

Um, now there are some, there are some dangers to this.

Um, desire itself isn't wrong, but they can be disordered and they can find

themselves expressed in simple ways.

Uh, James and John beforehand, they had a desire and a dream to be either side of

Jesus when, you know, he comes into his power in, in Rome, or sorry, in Jerusalem.

Um, and, but Jesus is kind of says, well, it's really not quite the thing

actually, but what's beyond that?

Of what's beyond that?

What's in that?

Probably their root desire was something around, they wanted to be

valued in life, actually, didn't they?

Um, they wanted to express the desire, um, through the wrong desire.

They wanted to express it wrongly through power and position, but really, basically

they wanted to be valued in life.

Um, I may have a need for intimacy and affection, and I can express that

desire in unhelpful ways, or I can bring the root desire to Christ in

prayer and find it met in other ways.

I think we sin not because we are in touch with our desires, but because

we are not in touch with our desires.

In fact, I think some of the, the biggest issues with humanity is self-awareness.

Self-awareness, um, what's actually going on in me.

Um, uh, desires can be expressed, um, uh, in a fantasy life where nothing is real.

You get that, don't you?

Have you ever watched the X Factor or something like that?

And, uh, you know, the, the singing competitions and, uh,

I, what, what's your dream?

They say, what's your dream?

I just want to be a multi-platinum, platinum selling artist.

Um, which is similar to the the last girl, the guy who came before.

And you think, well, you're not all gonna make it, are you?

Um, um, I, I mean, I still have a, a dream to, to play for Manchester United.

And I wait, I wait for the phone calls still, you know, and I, I can play well,

they're doing better than they were.

Um,

so you can, you can have disordered dreams or you can have dreams that become a

bit of a fantasy and you get like that.

Actually, some people get like that.

Um, and Desi desires can be disordered.

And particularly, I think materialism can make you a disordered thing, you know?

So, so, you know, what do you want?

I want a fast car.

That's what I want.

I think Jesus then says, why, but why not?

I've got a slow car.

I want a fast car, or a bigger car, or whatever.

Okay.

And I think Jesus keeps asking, well, why?

Why do you want that?

Um, what's, what's, what's happening inside you that you want that?

And you think, oh, you are asking too many questions because Jesus

keeps asking the questions.

Is it about your sense of importance you need?

Is it you wanna stand out from the crowd?

Is it, I dunno, what is it?

Do you, do you feel it?

I unempowered at work that when you get out, you gotta drive a car

to make you feel more important.

Is that it?

Um, there are better ways of meeting it.

'cause cars always break down.

Um, so what do you want?

What do you want?

I'm gonna give you some tips for dreaming today.

Firstly, um, thank you Kits.

Uh.

Yeah, be specific.

Start small.

Um, be specific in your dreams.

Um, well firstly, do start small by the way, you know what?

I dunno.

Today, this week, what's on your heart this week of often Jesus will,

you know, in prayer I just sent him saying, what, what do you want today?

That's quite a question actually today, what do I want?

Um, so it can be that specific.

It doesn't have to be 25 years time, all the time.

Okay?

It can be very specific to the moment or this week, what's on your heart.

So be specific around your dreams.

Begin to play with them.

Begin to think about them, begin to understand them, begin to write them down.

And when we were needing a house, um, because we had to leave a house,

um, uh, 'cause I was leading my wife into homelessness again second time.

And, um, we had a church house and God told us to leave and, and I said,

well, what do you want me to do?

And he said, I'll tell you when I'm ready.

I said, that's not helpful.

Um, and then I had to make a redundancy on the staff because we had a bit of a crash,

you know, the 2009, uh, financial crash.

And uh, and I thought, I can't make anyone redundant 'cause I know I'm

going, I just dunno where I'm going to.

And I thought, so I said to the church, I am your redundancy.

Um, and, uh, most were shocked.

Um, some were quite happy, but, um, most were shocked.

Um, and I said, in face God will provide for, which is great when you

say it, um, but you know, a few months down the road and you haven't got a

house and you haven't got the income.

And you gotta get a son into college.

Um, our youngest had to get into college and anyway, it all came down to house.

And God spoke to my wife and said, what do you want?

Um, her dreams are really quite small, but what she wanted was a good size garden.

Yeah, that's what she wanted.

And God found us this house utterly, miraculously at the last minute.

Why is it always the last minute?

I do not understand.

It's another conversation I'm gonna have with God when I get up there.

Um, the last minute he found us, his house.

He's got a whacking great big garden, and she loved the garden.

I I'll show you a picture of it a bit later, but, um, uh, and now she's, now

she's left me with a whacking great big garden, which was not my dream.

But anyway, that's another matter.

So write down lots of dreams.

So be specific.

Thank you, kit.

Um, dream big.

I mean, just write down, don't have one, have 50.

Just work on it.

Just keep work.

Journal them, journal them, journal them, okay?

Get them outta your system and then pray it through, and that you'll kind

of whittle them down a bit and your sense, what's today and tomorrow.

Just, just get yourselves outta this kind of, this mindset that

somehow your lives are controlled, your lives are not controlled.

You have choices to make.

Take responsibility for your life.

Bring your dreams to Jesus and see what he can do with them.

What do you want?

Have the conversation with Jesus.

What do you want?

What do you want?

Um, and it, it's a hard conversation sometimes.

What do you want?

Um, and I think you need to dream big and exciting and risky.

Einstein said, it's not knowledge we need, but imagination.

Whoa.

That's big from Einstein.

People come alive when you, when they tell you their dreams, don't they?

When you ask somebody, you know, what, what's, what's your dream?

Gosh, their eyes light up, don't they?

That's, you know, they're smiley.

Oh no, that's my dream.

Um, it's, it just brings life for us.

Um, so dream wide, whether it's work or home or church or hobbies or

experiences, I dunno, just keep dreaming.

Dream, not just for your place, so yourself, but

actually dream for your city.

What do you want over, over, over Perth?

Um, what's your dream for Perth?

I dunno.

Are you allowed to do that?

Yes, you are.

You're allowed to do that because God has a dream for Perth.

He has a dream for it, and he's put you here to be part of the dream.

And if you're not part of the dream, you shouldn't be here.

Okay?

You, you're in placed here.

You're not just moving through, you're in place.

This is your place.

This is the ground you walk on.

Take responsibility for it.

You're not just using the place,

you're not just using it.

You're not just passing through.

It just happens to be a place.

I am brother and sisters.

God owns the whole world and he's going to redeem every single piece

of land, and he has placed you in this land to be part of that.

So what is the dream for your city?

And be open to being surprised because you may well be surprised when you start

this journey and you may end up thinking, gosh, I wish he didn't preach that because

I didn't realize it would end up here.

I didn't realize it would end up here.

Um, so start living the dream now.

Start living.

I mean, if you wanna be a rock musician, learn how to play a musical instrument.

Okay?

It's kind of 1 0 1 to this.

All right?

So, um, you know, you don't have to dream to be the rock

musician, uh, just to do that way.

You can still dream it, but learn to do something with it.

Um, if you wanna be a preacher, then you know, start to take some lessons.

And how do it take a modular, a theological college?

Um, if you want to be a mom, then start looking after some kids.

Yeah.

And they change your mind.

It's good to know that early doors.

Um,

uh, let me just give you a list of people who just dream dreams, really.

Thank you.

Um, thank you Kit.

This is Dave Brossford.

He's head of, uh, used to be head of British cycling and he had a drink.

British cycling was horrendous.

Alright?

Nothing happened.

Um, it was, it was insignificant sport in the uk.

Alright?

Seriously?

People didn't go cycling.

Well, it was raining too much anyway.

Um, we had one Olympic gold in 76 years, and no British rider won the tour.

De France cycling was not a major participation sport in Britain.

And the national program was small and underfunded, but he had a dream,

and this was his dream that Britain would dominate Olympic cycling.

A British rider would win the Tour de France and cycling would become

a mainstream activity in Britain.

Wow.

Um, within 10 years, he saw the dream within 10 years.

Sorry, I, I have to talk about this as a success of British sport.

I will not be talking about cricket.

Um,

at um, uh, one of the Olympic Sprint, one eight gold medals, um, Britain dominated

the cycling events of the next Olympics.

They won the tour.

De France became the first, uh, we had the first British winner of the

Tour de France and then soon over, I think it was Bradley Wiggins.

Um, and uh, and after that we won multiple times.

And cycling has become the second most popular sport in our country.

'cause one man had a dream.

You see, one man had a dream begins with what you can, what you can't see.

I think Jesus, I think there's something about said in the Bible

about faith being what you can't see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At the one hand, we need to be the people in place here in terms of what we can see,

but we also need to be the people actually thinking about what we cannot see.

Um, and let me tell you about Phil.

This is, uh, thank you Kit.

This is Phil, me mate.

And, uh, he's a car mechanic.

Um, and he's just ordinary northern bloke.

I mean, seriously, he's been a car mechanic all his life.

Um, we used to lead teams out to Uganda and um, he came out and, uh, he, he, he

was shocked by the state of the taxis, you see, he was really angry, dreadful.

He said, you know, that everything was going wrong with his cars.

And he, so he called the taxi drivers of ginger together,

unbeknown to me, by the way.

Um, I'm meant to be leading the trip, but obviously I've

lost complete control on this.

And um, and he had a meeting with them and uh, and they came 'cause he

put on free food and um, uh, and he berated them for the state of taxis.

Dreadful the safety and everything like this in Ginger, in Uganda.

And um, he uh, and they said to him, but nobody mends cars in Ginger.

That's the problem.

So he thought, well, we better start a car mechanics institute then.

This is film mate.

I mean, seriously, bloke most unlikely to achieve something.

Perhaps we could get that off the tape actually.

Um,

and so he comes back and says, I'm gonna build a car mechanics institute.

There was a technical college we, we were connecting with and I

thought, well give it a go then mate.

Give it a go.

You know what I mean?

You know,

we'll just build something small to start with.

Phil.

No, no, no.

It's gotta be big.

Oh, was it?

Okay, well, God bless you.

Um.

This is the Car Mechanics Institute that he built.

Um, thank you Kits.

I think there's another picture.

Sorry.

No, back again.

Sorry.

It's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's several buildings, several buildings where

they're training now, um, people to mend the cars and the taxis of ginger.

Come on.

When, when he goes back, he goes back every year.

When he goes back into that compound, everyone stops work

and applauds him as he enters.

Hey, on the same trip I went to the opening of this actually, and on the

same trip, um, a three years before one of our other guys said, um, he's

a musician, he's a, a brass player.

And, and, and, and we're, we are packing things.

And he said, I, I brought some brass instruments to take to to ginger.

I said.

Did they ask for brass instruments?

He said, no, no, no.

I just felt I should take them.

And so we're having to carry these, these trumpets in our

cases and I'm thinking, what?

This is getting so outta hand, I have no authority here whatsoever.

And, um, instruments.

So he finds this is true, a brass band in Ginger that has no instruments.

So he trained them, taught them at the, the opening of

the Car Mechanics Institute.

Okay, this is dead true.

You hear from coming around the corner,

the band, and I'm thinking, oh, forget it's getting outta hand.

Um,

uh, this is, uh, this is the garden that, uh, my wife, uh,

decided we were going to buy.

Thank you Kit.

Sorry, back again.

Sorry.

Just one slide back.

That's all right.

Now this, this was a garden and a house trashed by two dreads

and drug addicts and alcoholics.

By the way, the whole thing had to be completely dismantled

as a house almost to its core.

Um, and, uh, it was this high in weeds and, um, and, uh, syringes

and mattresses and glass everywhere.

And, and, and a farmer friend of mine said, uh, alright, I got

some, I got some weed killer.

I said, have you?

He said, yeah, it'll work.

So three weeks later, this is what it looked like.

It's like Chernobyl.

Just nothing lived.

Nothing lived.

But my wife had a dream.

And she coerced me into the dream.

Um, thank you.

Thanks Kits.

And this is the garden.

Now, uh, send another picture.

Thanks Kits, um, beautiful English cottage garden.

Um, 'cause someone has a dream.

And the lady who first used to own this, um, was called Mrs. Burrows

and she was feared on the estate.

'cause there's a big patch of grass before you go out.

Sorry, you to come to the house.

If anyone walked on that patch of grass, she'd be out there straight away.

But her garden was known as Buckingham Palace and we found in the garden these

little statues and things like that.

Um, and my wife said, we're gonna restore this garden to its former glory.

Um, we're gonna do that.

And there's something about that actually isn't there.

So dreams, dreams can come out of new things, but they can also come outta

restoration of old things where we just sense God doing something new in a place

where actually it's gone badly wrong.

Um, thank you Kit.

Um, there she is gorgeous and, um, uh, but she also had a dream to change the arts

across the whole city, um, of Manchester.

God bless it.

May it rain forever.

Um, may Manchester United do well and, um, Manchester City do less.

Um, but, uh, um, she, uh, she's an artist, curator, and, uh, she had a dream that

one day, um, Christian art would take its rightful place within the city that

it would influence the art of the city.

And, and I said, well.

Good on you.

But the problem was there was an anti-Christian feel against art.

'cause there was a time, of course, in Europe when the only art ever produced

was by the church and it was very controlled and dominated and so on.

This is the rancher art gallery.

They had a policy of not working with any faith groups, particularly churches.

Um, and uh, so she began to work and just do stuff.

And then, um, she wanted to do this massive trail across

the city, um, thank you kids.

And, um, she set up a thing called passion art.

Thank you kids.

Um, and it was called Be Still, um, in a busy city, be still.

And uh, she went to the head of the art gallery, got an appointment with her.

She had a two hour interview.

Um, she put her through her paces.

I mean, seriously, she did not want her to be part of this art gallery.

She got the cathedral involved.

She got another church involved, but she wanted the art gallery

'cause that's the key thing.

And uh, um, and she came up with every reason this woman, for not having her.

And, uh, and in the end she, she, she pulled a fast one actually.

She said, um, are you, you are Jewish, aren't you?

She said, oh, well you've done your homework, you know?

Yes, I am.

Um, is, is your tradition really important to you?

Oh yeah.

It's really important, yeah.

Um, 'cause my tradition's really important to me.

That's an interesting argument, isn't it?

And you can do that in a secular society.

Um, and she kind of gave it her blessing ish, you know?

Um, but, but then she just built up a friendship and got trust.

Um, and, uh, and we had several exhibitions.

She was putting on exhibitions all the time.

I I tried to stop it, but she wouldn't stop.

And, um, uh, this is a, uh, an artist Julian Aire, who, a non-Christian artist

actually, but he, he, he makes funerary items, which outta clay, which are

basically, um, uh, coffins effectively.

And, uh, that, that's kind of like the Egyptians when you

would be buried standing up.

Thank you.

Kits.

I think there's another one, um, note back again.

Sorry.

Um, uh, then he had a stillborn birth, him and his wife, and he's never got over it.

Never got over it, and that's all he made.

And the idea of the trail was to look at the human condition of grief

and whatever, um, and then link it to Lent and, uh, to, to the cross.

So, um, and then, uh, she put up a. Thanks Kit, which is, um, called man Coming down

from Heaven, you know, that kind of sense.

20,000 pieces of paper.

I know they're 20,000 'cause I hole punched 20,000 pieces of paper.

She said I could do it while watching Netflix and I thought that'd be all right.

But do you know how noisy a hole punch punches?

Dunum Dunum Dunum couldn't watch any television.

Um, thank you Kits.

Um, uh, sculpture of, uh, my son's actually, um, a sculptor.

And, uh, that's the, the fetus as his first child is born.

And he, he sculpts each of the months, um, beautiful kind of sculpture.

Thanks kits.

Um, uh, and then out of it came another art exhibition where we had a

beautiful artist, uh, called Rachel, who makes these kazuki pots, you know,

where you have the scarring in, and then you feel the scarring with gold.

So the, the pot actually becomes more valuable after it's been scarred.

It's a picture of pain and suffering.

And, um, then worked with a, a word artist who came up with

this phrase, you are enough.

And they put these pots together and they put them around the city hidden,

and you had to go and find them.

It's the most beautiful thing.

And then if you did find them, could you put it on social media?

Um, took off across the city.

People looking for these parks.

Um, looking for this gift.

Um, it's called a Gift to the City.

Uh, and then people wrote what it meant to them.

In fact, they used to find out where she was and then they follow her

to have a little trail of people following her to find out where she

hide them so they could be the first.

Um, uh, I did know just great stuff.

Thank you Kits.

Um, uh, and then it ended well, one of the exhibitions ended with a

phenomenal meeting in the cathedral where the arts, the non-Christian arts

establishment came, um, and were moved.

And she had this, uh, orchestral group called Epiphany who play

in the spirit over people.

Well, they don't say play in the spirit, they just say,

they call it sound portraits.

Um, so they're improvising music and, uh, and you sit on a chair and they'll

play a unique piece of music for you, put on your iPhone, record it, um.

And Julian Sta the person who just couldn't move beyond death because

of the birth, or sorry, the death of his child, um, was the first person

to sit in the chair in the cathedral.

Tears in his eyes.

Um, and they have somebody on the piano singing in tongues, but

they don't tell them it's that.

And then they say, we just sensed as we were playing over you.

This, does that resonate with you?

So they're being prophetic, actually.

Um, uh, brothers and sisters, you can, you can change things, you know, bit of

imagination, bit of a dream, you know, things do not have to remain the same.

Thank you.

Thank you Kits.

Um, uh, let me just kind of finish with this.

This is the dream of a friend of mine.

I dunno if I shared this last time, but, um, you've forgotten.

Anyway, um, this is a place called Ur, part of, uh, greater Manchester.

And in the Industrial Revolution, it was one of the centers, it was the Dockland,

um, uh, textiles came in from the world and then went out to the, uh, mills of

North Manchester where it's damp and the cotton could be worked well, and there is

a blessing to living in a damp culture.

And, um, uh, but then the docks closed down and the textile industry closed

down, and the docks become redundant.

And Sulford is known as the worst place to live in the northwest of England.

It is hell on earth in Sulford.

It's run by five crime families who decided they're in charge.

Um, the police have to send in, uh, at that time, armored vehicles just to

go in and, uh, quell the disturbance and, uh, petrol bombs thrown at them.

And thank you kits.

Uh, um, de dereliction.

Thank you kits.

Just other pictures, really sulfur.

Um, uh, just hold it there.

It'd be great.

And, um, uh, worst crime in the area.

Um, the worst education in the area.

Uh, no church.

There's one church above a hundred people.

All the other churches were 30 people.

Everyone moved out.

Moved out.

Um, he bought a house for 37,000 pounds.

So 60, $70,000.

He sold it for 3000 pounds.

'cause that was the, that was the state of housing in the city.

Um, and he lived in Sulford.

He grew up in Sulford.

His father was a, a, a missioner to Sulford and had a horrendous,

horrendous life, lived in poverty.

And he went to Bible college and he said to the Lord, I'll serve you anywhere

except I will not go back there.

Um, you know, the rest, of course.

Um, don't tell God what, what you don't want to do.

Um.

And anyway, he went back to Sulford.

He thought that had the heck to do so.

All I did, all he did was he prayed.

He just walked.

He didn't drive.

Actually, he didn't drive to this day.

He just walks, walks every street in Sulford and prays and prays and praises

and then thought he needs to, in fact, God asked the question, he said, what's

the most dysfunctional family in Sulford?

That was the question.

And he thought, wow, there's five crime families.

But to be honest, they're called organized crime, so they're not that dysfunctional.

And then he knew the church was the most dysfunctional family in the city.

If your family has fallen out with each other, doesn't speak to each

other, is arrogant with each other, thinks they're right all the time,

you'll have a problem in your family.

And that's the problem in the church.

And, uh, so him and his wife brought the leaders together.

They gave him lunch again and paid for it for 18 years, every month and brought them

together and worked together and so on.

And, uh, so anyway, he knelt by the docks.

Uh, thanks Kit.

I think there's just one more and one more.

Thank you.

He knelt by the docks and he said, God, you've gotta give me a vision for Sulford.

And God spoke to him and said, one day Sulford will go to the world

and the world will come to Sulford.

And he believed it.

He just believed it.

He thought, well, I'm not gonna live in the old word 'cause that's depressing.

I'm gonna live in the new word.

So we just talk up Sulford.

Whenever you met him, you go, oh, it's getting much better here.

He said, no, it's not seriously, mate.

It's not.

Oh, and education's about to improve.

Um, crime is gonna come down, you think?

Hmm.

So much.

So we were used to be in unity meetings that some of the pastors, um, told me that

I had to tell him to stop talking about Sulford too much 'cause it wasn't true.

But to Dave it was true.

'cause when you see it and God has spoken, it's true.

That's truth.

Um, and then God led a member of our church actually to take on the,

um, the police in the area and she managed to take on the crime families.

That was a big thing.

Um, and began to whittle their power down.

And then God placed a Christian in, in charge of education in the city,

and she got every single school rebuilt in the hold of Salford.

Um, and then, uh.

And then God spoke to a Christian Catholic businessman to buy the docks.

And everyone thought, that's a waste of time, isn't it?

But why would you buy derelict docks?

Um, and this is that place now, um, this is Media City.

Um, the BBC moved.

The BBA th the government told the BBC, they're far to London base,

basically they're, they're, you know, snotty and, um, and it, I told

a third of them they had to leave.

They came kicking and screaming to the north of England, scared for their lives.

Um, and, uh, so a third of the BBC has to move and they come to Sulford.

It should have gone to one other, other cities, but it went to Sulford.

Of course it did.

And they built a huge building.

And of course, once A BBC arrived, loads of other media companies

come, you see, and then you get a backlog of, uh, sort of a creation of

different media companies and different things happening across the city.

And, um, it's just, I mean, you can't, you can't buy a house in Sulford.

Now, seriously, I wouldn't buy a house.

I can't afford a house in Sulford.

Now, I wish I listened to him early doors, to be honest, because I would've been a

good investment, but I didn't believe him.

But God had spoken.

One day Sulford will go to the World Breakfast television, you know,

do you have breakfast, television?

Yeah.

Guess where it comes from?

Across the whole of our country.

Sulford Sulford.

And, and you know, they take, they go out into the streets with a vox pop, you

know, what do you think of this issue?

And so guess where that is?

Sulford High High Street.

'cause they can't be bothered to go any further.

Um, the world is coming to Sulford and Sulford is going to the world.

And brothers and sisters is very interesting.

'cause if it prospers, you will prosper.

So what the Bible says, and guess what happens?

Guess tell me where the second largest church outside London is.

Sulford.

Wow, you can't make this up, can you?

You really can't make this up.

5,000 people meeting in Sulford, several churches in four, six hundreds.

Um, in fact, in the old days, you, if you wanted a killer

church, you put it in Sulford.

Now everyone wants to plant in Sulford.

Oh, it's a great place to plant in church.

Um, uh, and my mate, Dave, and a few prayers, and nobody knows the story,

but he believed, heard the voice of God.

He had a dream.

God changed this place.

So your dreams can be big.

They can be small, but please God almighty, dream, dream, dream, dream.

I should sing the song really, but I'm not very good at that.

So I wonder what your dreams are really.

I dunno if you've got some dreams, um, got a bit of paper for you.

Why you start writing?

Just write something.

I don't know.

If you're an astronaut supporter, you may be dreaming that the win

four trophies, they will not.

That, that's an, that's a ridiculous dream.

Um, I dunno what it is.

Um, what's your dream?

Um, if you're sitting next to your husband, don't say

that My husband would change.

Um, or don't write it anyway.

Um, what's your dream?

I dunno.

Just, just start now.

Okay.

This, this in the, this ain't the end.

You know, get one of those books, a journal or go on the notes in

your, in your iPhone or whatever.

Start to dream.

Start to dream.

Start to dream.

What's the dream for your kids?

What's the dream for your, for your family?

What's the dream for your church?

What's the dream for your friends?

You can have, you begin to dream for other people as well.

That's wonderful as well.

Isn't, it's beautiful thing.

So it's not just an isolated thing.

Um.

Yeah, just have a moment of quiet as you kind of reflect and, and

then perhaps I'll, I'll pray.

Probably need to, you know, to spend a bit of time in the next few days and just

get an out, go for a walk or something.

Um, you've got beaches, you can walk along.

We have beaches, but we can't walk too cold.

But spend some time, just put a bit of effort into it.

Um, and it's not quick sometimes, you know, don't worry about it.

Just, um, let it come.

Just work on it and let it be a prayer for the next few days.

What do I want?

What do I want?

Um, sometimes it's a really good conversation between partners

actually to hear what the other person wants and to listen to them.

Um, 'cause perhaps sometimes you're holding them back from their dreams.

Yeah, in a way, and they need to release you, but you haven't

actually articulated it.

Um, honesty, isn't it?

Just a bit, bit honesty, and if some of you're finding this dead hard,

um, then have a conversation with Jesus about it and be dead honest.

That's all I

Let me read to you the words of my favorite poet, John o Donahue, Catholic

Priest in outer way, places of the heart where your thoughts never think to wander.

This beginning has been quietly forming, waiting until you are ready to emerge

for a long time, it is watched your desire, feeling the emptiness growing

inside you noting, noticing how you wield yourself on still unable to leave what

you had outgrown it, watched you play with the seduction of safety and the

gray promises that sameness whispered.

And heard the waves of turmoil rise and relent and wondered,

would you always live like this?

And then the delight when your courage kindled and you stepped onto new

ground, your eyes, young again with energy and dream, a path of platitude.

Opening before you Though your destination is not yet clear, you can

trust the promise of this opening.

Unfurled yourself into the grace of beginning.

Unfurled yourself into the grace of beginning.

This is a, this is at one with your life's desires and awaken

your spirit to adventure.

Hold nothing back and learn to find ease in risk.

Soon you'll be home to a new rhythm for your soul.

Senses, the world that awaits you and these words.

May you have the courage today to live the life that you would love to

postpone your dream no longer, and to do it last what you came here for,

and waste your heart on fear no more.

Lord, receive the prayers of our hearts.

Receive the prayers of our hearts.

Lord, we're sorry.

When we get stuck and we don't dream enough, and we don't reach enough, and we

don't risk enough, Lord, we have one life.

One life.

Lord, help us grab it.

Really grab it.

In Jesus' name, amen.